Such Quiet Girls With Noelle Ihli

Summary

Podcast Summary: Barely Famous with Noelle Ihli ("Such Quiet Girls")

Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Noelle Ihli, Thriller Author
Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of "Barely Famous," host Kail Lowry sits down with bestselling thriller author Noelle Ihli. They explore Noelle's journey from her Mormon upbringing in Idaho and Utah, through her complicated break from the faith, to finding unexpected success as a full-time author. The conversation dives deep into Noelle’s writing process, inspiration from true crime, experiences with self-publishing, and the true stories behind her books such as “Such Quiet Girls,” “None Left to Tell,” and “Ask for Andrea.” Themes of identity, resilience, and the challenges of traditional publishing are woven throughout, making for a raw, inspiring, and occasionally darkly humorous episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Noelle’s Background and Path to Writing

• Growing Up in Idaho & Mormon Heritage ([02:41])
  • Noelle’s family has deep Mormon roots from Utah, with “lots of pioneer Mormons in my history” ([02:49]).
  • “Stories like [the Mountain Meadows Massacre] were always, like, just out of earshot...I didn't learn about that story until I was an adult.” ([02:49])
  • Trail riding and her love for horses are a big part of her life: “They're big, stinky, and dangerous, but they're so lovely.” ([03:40])
  • Her tagline: “Murder and horses—but separately, right?” ([04:02])
• Early Fascination with True Crime ([04:22])
  • As a child she loved scary stories and true crime: “I was always the one trying to convince the babysitter that it was fine with my parents if I watched the scary movie.” ([04:27])
  • “I will sit awake in my bed at night and think about all of these stories that give me nightmares. But I keep coming back for more.” ([04:43])
• Academic Journey & Faith Expectations ([05:26], [05:33])
  • Studied Spanish translation and editing at BYU: “I thought I was gonna be a stay-at-home mom forever. I mean, I grew up Mormon. That was the dream. That was the goal.” ([05:33])
  • Editing skills helped with her own writing, learning “what makes a sentence work.” ([07:16])

Breaking Away from Mormonism

• Leaving the Faith and Family Tensions ([07:59–09:08], [17:03])
  • Lived through marriage, motherhood, divorce, and then separation from Mormonism.
  • Being a single mom post-divorce, working at a candle company, eventually realizing: “I can do this for other people. I wonder if I could do it for myself.” ([08:21])
  • The process of leaving Mormonism was not easy: “No. [My family is] all very devout and it's really important to them. So that was a pretty difficult time.” ([17:03])
  • Writing about Mormon history (like the Mountain Meadows Massacre) was both a source of tension and healing.

Publishing & Industry Insights

• First Book Experiences ([09:22])
  • “I got all the rejection letters, and for a while, I just let that book sit...because I assumed rejections meant it wasn't good enough.” ([09:37])
  • Eventually found success and circled back to publishers who once rejected her.
• Traditional vs. Self-Publishing ([10:38–12:42])
  • Initially looked down on self-publishing but found the landscape has changed: “Now you can find [books] on Booktok...If it's a good book, the readers will keep coming back.” ([12:42])
  • Social media levels the playing field—being discovered now is about connecting with readers, not just having a publisher’s marketing dollars.
• Ghostwriting and Pen Names ([15:18–16:52])
  • Ghostwrote for a Mormon publishing company but eventually wanted to publish under her own name: “I didn't want to feel like an imposter. I wanted to...put it out there under my own name and see if I could do it that way.” ([16:20])

Writing Process & Creative Choices

• Writing Routine ([27:54])
  • “I get an idea that won’t leave my head, I write 20 pages of notes…then I just write.” ([27:59])
  • Describes herself as a “pantser”—someone who writes by the seat of her pants rather than outlining everything.
• Beta Readers & Sensitivity Readers ([54:37–56:56])
  • Uses a core group of thriller author friends for deep, honest feedback: “If you hated something, say it straight up.” ([54:37])
  • Employs sensitivity readers, especially when writing outside her own cultural experience: “That voice has been left out of the story intentionally for so many decades. So that was not an option, and I would not do that, but...I just don’t have that cultural background and sensitivity.” ([56:04])

Book-Specific Deep Dives

“None Left to Tell” and the Mountain Meadows Massacre

• Historical Context & Personal Stakes ([32:50–39:03])
  • Noelle outlines the harrowing 1857 event—Mormon settlers massacring a wagon train in Utah, most victims being women and children.
  • “It’s a really harrowing story about, I think, fundamentalism and fanaticism and what we can do, can be pushed to do in the name of, you know, beliefs, faiths.” ([36:39])
  • Writing from her ancestor’s perspective was an exercise in empathy and faith examination.
  • Discovering the true story and family’s connection was a turning point contributing to her leaving Mormonism.
  • Research and writing offered both closure and a “heaviness” that lifted once the book was out.

“Ask for Andrea” and True Crime Sensitivity

• Victims, Not Villains ([29:00–30:21], [53:14])
  • “Ask for Andrea” was inspired by the “Ask for Angela”/“angel shot" campaigns—secret signals to bartenders for help.
  • The book resonates deeply with readers, especially those who have lost loved ones: “It seems to resonate especially with people who have lost a loved one…how that book meant something to them.” ([29:00])
  • True crime writing needs to focus on compassion for victims: “It was just another good reminder…what are we doing here? Like, who are we focusing on?” ([53:14])
  • Noelle avoids glorifying killers: “I think it’s a question we need to keep asking ourselves.” ([54:12])

“Such Quiet Girls” and Lesser-Known True Crime

• Inspired by Chowchilla Kidnapping ([45:07])
  • Based on the 1976 kidnapping of a school bus full of children, who were buried in a shipping container and escaped.
  • “There’s usually some aspect of it…that someone, one of the survivors or victims, was done a huge disservice…So I wanted to put their story forward.” ([46:39])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Traditional Publishing

• “The traditional publishing industry is very focused on building brands...authors that have a name out there that people will auto buy their next book. And I didn’t have that yet.” – Noelle Ihli [10:44]

On True Crime Fascination

• “Readers want to read a good book. Like, most of them did not know with that first book I put out that I was self-published. They just either liked the book or they didn’t.” – Noelle Ihli [12:42]

On Family & Losing Faith

• “I worried that [writing about the massacre] would really hurt my family...But ironically, I felt like it gave me a lot of compassion…I write from the perspective of my fourth great grandmother in the book...” – Noelle Ihli [39:21]

On Writing About Violence

• “If you show the monster too much...you’re not scared of the monster anymore. I feel like leaving—even if there is some horrific gore...focusing on that almost flips a switch in our brains...I want to focus on what matters most to me about the survival story, or the bravery.” – Noelle Ihli [58:07]

On Sensitivity and Collaborations

• “That voice [Native women] has been left out...so that was not an option, and I would not do that, but...I just don’t have that cultural background and sensitivity.” – Noelle Ihli [56:04]

On Audiobooks and Accessibility

• “You’re reading with your ears instead of your eyes...we’re engaging with the story and consuming the story and what is reading aside from that?” – Noelle Ihli [63:43]

On Parenting, Identity, and Writing

• Noelle’s children are teens and proud of their mother’s career, though they are starting to branch into reading “more deep symbolism” and classics ([31:29]).
• Character naming is deliberate: “I first weed out the names of people that I know that will be upset...” ([30:26])
• On pet’s role in creativity: “Boring things like, I pet my cat. [Her cat’s name is] Dolly Parton.” ([52:56])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Noelle’s Background: [01:33]–[07:16]
• Leaving Mormonism & Family: [07:59], [17:03]
• Publishing Journey & Self-Publishing: [09:22]–[12:42]
• Ghostwriting & Identity: [15:18]–[16:52]
• Book Inspirations:
  • "Ask for Andrea" & Angel Shot: [29:00]
  • "None Left to Tell" & Mountain Meadows Massacre: [32:50]–[39:03]; [40:52]
  • "Such Quiet Girls" & Chowchilla Kidnapping: [45:07]
• Writing Process & Beta Readers: [27:54], [54:37], [56:04]
• True Crime Ethics: [53:14], [54:12]
• Literary Discussion, Collaboration, & Technology: [26:22], [50:51], [51:18]
• Audiobooks & Accessibility: [61:01], [63:43]

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Where to Find Noelle Ihli

“I am on social media most places at NoelleIhliAuthor and you can find my books on Amazon and increasingly in most bookstores.” ([64:17])

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This episode is a must-listen for fans of true crime, thrillers, and anyone navigating the aftermath of leaving a strict community or faith. Noelle’s insight into both her personal and writing journeys is frank, relatable, and often moving.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Welcome to the Shit Show.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

Things are going to get weird.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It's your fave villain Kale and you're listening to Barely Famous. Today on the podcast I have Noelle Eiley. You may recognize her name from the thrillers that she writes like Ask for Andrea or None Left to Tell. And today we'll talk more about her journey in Mormonism and separating herself from the religion and becoming a full time writer. Thank you for joining us on Barely Famous.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And your newest book came out in April. Such quiet girls. Three of us read it, I think within the last like two weeks. So congratulations on your most recent release.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Thank you. Thank you for reading it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I found it on Goodreads and book. Some of the book talkers were talking about it but Right before this one I read None Left to Tell.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And first of all, we'll talk about it, but I had no idea that even occurred, so. So historical fiction or historical suspense, would you say it is?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, historical suspense.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So you grew up in Boise, Idaho, is that right?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Right.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And how did that shape sort of how you write today? Does it shape that at all?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It does. I mean, my family. The motherland is Utah. Yeah. Lots of pioneer Mormons in my history. So the stories like that were always kind of on the periphery of things that I learned about growing up. It was lots of heroic pioneers and inspiring stories, and stories like that were always, like, just out of. Out of earshot, like they were there. We knew not to talk about them, but I didn't learn about that story until I was an adult.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh, wow.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So was shocking to me to learn about it, too.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I also have never met anyone that's from Idaho.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Really?

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I don't think so. I forgot that was a state, so.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

A lot of people do. It's okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And you love to trail ride. Is that true?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I do. I. Horses. I. It sounds like you love horses, too.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I do. I want a horse. But they're a lot of work.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

They are a lot of work. They. And you have to love them. They're big, stinky, and dangerous, but they're so lovely. So, yes, I love to get out and ride in the hills in Idaho.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Do you still have. Do you have horses yourself? You do?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

We have goats, pigs, chickens, ducks. I want to get Highland cows. Do you have any cows?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No cows. Just horses.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And your tagline is murder and horses. But separately, right?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Always separately.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Where did that come from?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I was thinking about the things that I loved, and they could be. Yeah. Never combining those.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

No, for sure not.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Unless a horse is saving the day.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Sure. Then maybe they can help out, they can assist. But no. No victims.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

When did you develop an interest in true crime and, like, retelling those stories?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Gosh, since I was little. I've always been fascinated by those stories. I was always the one trying to convince the babysitter that it was fine with my parents if I watched the scary movie. So always some part of my brain has kind of loved and been fascinated by the dark things.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Because they scare me.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I will sit awake in my bed at night and think about all of these stories that give me nightmares. But. But I keep coming back for more.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Did you read Goosebumps as a kid?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, absolutely, yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Did you watch CSI ever? I was a big, like, crime junkie. I Guess before that was a thing. And I always watched CSI when I was a kid.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, csi, Outer Limits, Forensic Files, like the ultra old Forensic Files that are always on vacation when you go and turn on the channel, it's 24 hours of forensic files.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So I'm a big ID channel person. So completely understand that. And you went to school for translation and editing at byu, is that right?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So how did that shape how you write? Did it have anything to do with your goals to become a writer?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, I thought I was gonna be a stay at home mom forever. I mean, I grew up Mormon. That was the dream. That was the goal.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So that's what you wanted also, or did you feel pressure to want that?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I remember going through the catalog of majors at BYU and being what is something that I don't hate that won't require like a master's degree, burden my husband with debt so that I can like get an education, but also just marry somebody. And so it. It ended up being fine. I watch a lot of telenovelas with my Spanish knowledge, but that's all I do with it. And then editing ended up pushing me into publication and editing other people's books before I wrote my own. So it was a good path.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So the studying, translation is you. Is that like its language specifically Spanish or is it multiple languages?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Spanish translation specifically.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay, so you're fluent.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I am.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And then you can. Is that. Was that your first or second language?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Second.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay, so you go to college and you're like, I'm going to major in this. I'm going to learn Spanish fluently. And then. And then. So did you translate your own books?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No. So you're always supposed to translate into your native language. So I could translate Spanish into English since I'm a. That's my first language is English. But yeah, it's. It really did not make a lot of sense for me as a major living in Idaho. But again, my main goal at BYU was to get married and live happily ever after and.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Fair. Fair, yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I didn't think.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And which.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

You did that for a little while. Yeah, sure.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So do you any of those skills, like from translation or editing have. Has it transferred to your writing then or. Not really?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I think it has, especially with editing. It helped me look at language more critically and, you know, breaking down sentences and seeing. We always have the exercises like what's the word in the sentence that doesn't need to be there to preserve the meaning of the sentence? Or okay, you know, so. And just getting the experience of being around professors who had worked in publishing, and that's what most of them did with their degrees. So it was a great exposure to what a. What took a book from start to finish, you know, beginning to end. So it was great exposure, great skills, learning where the comma goes, learning what makes a sentence work. So.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So you go to school and then you meet your husband.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And then you decide to write books.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, that. So I met my husband. We lived happily ever after in Utah with two kids and a dog. And then we left Mormonism, got divorced. I. We came back to Idaho. I was a single mom for a little while, working at a candle company in Idaho.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I also worked for the same company, by the way.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Did you? Really, really good times. And then, you know, I had that history that I had worked for a little while with, editing, with editing other people's books. And after a while of working, you know, more of a traditional 9 to 5, I was like, you know, I. I can do this for other people. I wonder if I could do it for myself. And just started dipping my toes into the water a little bit, writing for myself.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That's really. I think that's so cool because I think so often I talk to people who, like, maybe had an idea that they would maybe write, but maybe on the side or maybe for fun and not necessarily publish their work. And so you sort of didn't get that idea until after, you know, you had a family and then obviously divorce, move, and then had the idea.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That's kind of cool, though.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, it is cool. It's like the thing I was always supposed to do and was right in front of me the whole time, but it was always other people, like, I'll support other people in that work, but it felt too audacious almost to put my own stories or my own books out there.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So you publish your first book, you write your. Your first book. Did you publish that same first book or what? Did you? Because I've talked to authors who have, like, never put out their first one to five books. You know what I mean? So was it the first book that you ever wrote that you got published?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I. So I. My first book out there to agents to start out with. And I didn't understand at the time how hard it was to break into the scene as a new author. And I got all the rejection letters, and for a while, I just let that book sit there for quite a few years because I assumed rejections meant it wasn't good enough. And so it sat until I met a couple of people that had had Success in putting their books out independently. And I was like, you know, I already have it written. I'll give it a try and put it out there. And I learned a lot, but I was able to then build on that and put more books out there. And then now I'm working with some of the same publishers and agents that were like, you know, you do your thing. So it's all circled back around and it worked out really well. But no, I sat on that book for a long time because it didn't get snapped up. And I took that as a sign. It wasn't. It wasn't good enough.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Is it just because it's more of like a cutthroat industry? Like, you just. It doesn't mean it's not good. It just. Maybe they don't have time for it.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Exactly. It meant. Which I didn't understand at the time, it meant that.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Which.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

You know, the traditional publishing industry is very focused on building brands, you know, authors that have a name out there that people will auto buy their next book. And I didn't have that yet. Really?

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh, yeah, no, we were just. My friend and I, she runs book club with me and we were talking about how, like, we could like one book from an author and buy the entire backlist.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes, yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So that's sort of what you're talking about, is like they want to be able to see a name and a book title and can we turn this into a brand?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes, it's a sure thing. You know, there's a lot of unknowns with a new author that's breaking into the field, doesn't have a social media following, doesn't have a proven track record. And I didn't understand how hard that was. I just was like, well, the book's not good enough to get picked up quite yet.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Did you ever think of self publishing during that time?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I didn't until I met a couple people who had done it. And because I had always kind of looked down on self publishing when I worked with authors who were doing the traditional route, I think it's come a long ways. There's so many more resources to do it well now that there were not before. So I had in my mind the shitty cover with the book that hadn't been edited. When I thought of self publishing or independent publishing, but I. It blew my mind to learn that that was not the case. So.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Well, I think, like, I didn't even know self publishing existed. So back when I published my first book in 2014, I didn't know that self Publishing was an option.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And so like you rejection left letter after rejection letter. I think I had like six of them. And so I just sat on it, you know what I mean until that one deal came across. And so I was like okay, but I mean that makes sense. But I think today for self publishing with the power of social media and book talk, it's so much easier to self published where like before you. How are you gonna get the word out? Like yeah, cool, you have this book on Amazon or whatever. But like how are you getting the word out if there's no book talk, there's no social media.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes. Yeah. So evens the playing field a little bit because readers want to read a good book. Like most of them did not know with that first book I put out that I was self published. They just either liked the book or they didn't. And it's. It used to be you would go into Barnes and Noble but yeah, like you said, now you can find it on booktok. Now you can find it on Instagram. Yeah, whatever. So if it's a good book, the readers will coming back.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I just got telling one of my.

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[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I hope they don't think I was Shut. Just sleep already.

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And before you actually publish your own book, were you ghost writing, is that right?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I did some ghost writing, yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

What was that process like? Did you ever. Because I also talked about this recently is like, did you ever not ever get anxious or maybe resentful that your name wasn't the one on the title?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Once in a while, but. So the publisher that I worked for for a little while out of college, that kind of, you know, the clients I was working for, it was a, it was a Mormon publishing company. So it was a lot of like very, you know, clean fiction, really like faith centered books. And by that time I was kind of diverging a little bit away from that world. So it wasn't books I wanted to, to write myself. So it felt like it was kind of a safe distance where I could. But it was fascinating to see the reviews come through where some reviews were like, this is the best book they've written yet. And I was like, ah, okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Did you ever think of writing under a pen name?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I did, but I, I also, by the time I was gonna put my own books out there, it was almost this like kind of test that I didn't want to feel like an imposter. I wanted to, if I was gonna do it, I was gonna put it out there under my own name and see if I could do it that way because I felt so much anxiety and insecurity about putting a book out in the first place, that I just made this deal with myself that I was gonna put it out under my own name and let it ride.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So when you were sort of separating yourself from. Is Mormonism the right word? Yeah, Mormonism. Did you have support from your family in doing that?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No. Tricky subject, but no, they're all very devout and it's really important to them. So that was a pretty Difficult time.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sure.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

To, you know, it's. It's their whole world.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

And to have a child especially, there's a lot of, I think, stigma in having a child who leaves the church that, you know, it calls into question your parenting sometimes, and I think that that's hard for them to. To. To feel okay about. So it's. It's still a thing, but we. We do our best.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. That's all you can do. Do they support, like, writing your books and stuff like that? You're writing books and publishing because they're all mostly based on true stories.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, they are, yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Or. Or loosely based on, you know, events that happen. Right.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah. My mom reads all my books and. Yep. She. She's a voracious reader. She's one of the people who taught me to love reading, so that's. I feel like something we still have in common.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

That love of reading is.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Can you pinpoint a time where you were like, okay, this is it. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna write books for a living. Like, I'm gonna make this my career.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I think it was when the first person reached out to me in a message that wasn't a friend or like, somebody that was like, way to go. Way to put that out there. Just a stranger that reached out over the Internet and said, like, this is my favorite book I've ever read. And it was like, man, if I can do that once, can I do that again? Like, do more people feel that way? And it was this, like, chasing that dragon feeling of, man, that story meant something to you, and you spent eight hours reading it. I want to keep doing that.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. And you. Like, we were just saying that your. Your books are inspired, maybe loosely, off of true life events. So how do you decide what you're going to build off, what case or incident or event that you're going to create a story around?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's usually something that I hear. You know, I listen to a lot of podcasts, true crime podcasts. I watch a lot of documentaries, and it's when something sticks in my head. And my husband is not quite as into that world as I am. No. So I know when I'm telling him about a story and I get, like, choked up and I'm almost crying just telling him about the story that it's like, oh, man, that one. That one means something to me. It won't leave my head. And a lot of the stories I choose happened pre Internet, and I didn't know about them beforehand. So I always start thinking like, could this happen now? Like, with cell phones, with the Internet? Could this story still happen in a reimagined way? So a lot of times they're stories that I feel like need a little spotlight because they're not as well known as, you know, the Lori Valo case or the, you know, most of us know, Karen Reed or Jon Ramsey, whatever. Like, it's stories that we don't have in our cultural consciousness as much that I kind of want to nudge out there.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

What is your. You said you listen to True Crime podcast. What's your favorite true crime podcast?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I really love my favorite Murder. I love those women. They inspire me. And then I just listened to your interview with Ashley Flowers and Crime Junkies.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Have you ever listened to Morbid?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I tried listening to Morbid and I. It was a little. It was a little morbid.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I feel like you're either a morbid girly or crime junkie girly. There's no in between.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's a divide.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I. I love Morbid. And I don't know if it's because when I first got into podcasting, I talked to the morbid, the host of Morbid first. But it got to a point where it was like. So I was consumed by this podcast, right? So it was like just murder all day long. It was like, as soon as I listen to this one episode, I have to listen to the one before that and before that. And so before I knew, I was, like, paranoid, like, looking over my shoulders. So it was just, like, affecting my mental health. Does that ever happen to you since you're writing, like, crime?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Sometimes. Especially certain stories, they will. Like, my. My book Room for Rent is about a frogger, and I.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

We were just talking about froggers.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's so scary. And I think about it every time I see, like, a crawl space entrance or a. An attic. And I just sit and stare at it while I try to fall asleep. So they stick with me and they definitely live rent free in my head.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So I have that book room for Rent. I just haven't gotten to it yet. I actually have two copies of it and they have two different covers.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So crazy. I was like, I don't know which one's maybe another country's cover.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, there's a lot of covers out there.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I freaked my son out because there was this show, I think it was like, during COVID or something, and it was like a show about froggers, and my son was around, and now he, like, sort of freaked him out on accident, but I. That's like my worst nightmare.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Same, same. So scary. No, just when I was doing the research for that and looking up some of the true stories about froggers and like Danny LaPlante.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Who's that?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, look him up. He lived in the walls of their house.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

For how long?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Like a while. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I would not. I would not be okay.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, not be okay. Could you be?

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Well, so let's talk about Room for Rent. That one is Thoughts about a Frogger. What about Run on Red?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Run on Red is loosely based on something that happened when I was in high school. A really like, scary close call that I had. We were driving up to a bonfire, meeting friends. It had already started and we were on a really windy road. This was like new cell phone era. So we didn't have service. There wasn't great coverage. And there was a truck behind us that it kept flashing its headlights and then it tried to pass us. And then we came around the corner, it's kind of sped past. And they had blocked both lanes of traffic. The truck did, so we couldn't pass. We had to stop. And we looked and it was these two dudes with hoods pulled up over their faces so we couldn't see them. And they then like chased us all the way back down. We were like, we're not going to the bonfire anymore. We're leaving.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

The.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

These dudes are up to something bad. So I never knew what they wanted, never knew what their intentions were, but it was like the little seed of something. Like, what if something worse had happened? So that's how the book starts. These two girls get run off the road and then things get worse from.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

There and you laugh through it.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And then Ask for Andrea was the first book with your name on it that I saw go viral because I'm still pretty new to the book world and so that was the first one that I had seen by you that viral on Booktok. And did you expect the success of that?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, I didn't. And when that one went viral, it was two years old, so it had been out for a little while and it, you know, a couple of book talkers found it and really liked it and that was so cool to see happen.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Have you noticed a change since you started writing to now with Booktok and the influence of social media?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's so huge.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It can be such a gigantic amplifier and it like we were talking about earlier with traditional publisher like you, all it takes is a book that really resonates with people to all of a sudden have a viral moment. It doesn't have to be a book that has all the marketing dollars behind it from some giant publisher. It's which is pretty cool. Like anything can have a moment if it resonates with people.

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

See?

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Do you ever pull inspiration from other authors?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I mean, I feel like every thriller I've ever, ever read lives somewhere in my head and there's so many thriller authors that just inspire me. Lisa, Jewel, Ruth Ware, I. I mean these are the people that I read while I was in college and whenever they had a new book come out, I would grab it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So, yeah, it's just inspiration for finding some new angle on something we all heard about a million times. Making it fresh, making it scary, making it feel like it's real.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So absolutely.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It's so funny because we were saying like, just buy the entire backlog and I feel like I need to do that with every thriller author I've ever read.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yep. Same.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And Riley Sager doesn't live far from here.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I didn't know he lived in New York for some reason.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

He's in New Jersey.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, he's in New Jersey. Okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And he does. I think I've read two or three of his books, but I just like to stick behind the women authors for thrillers. You Frida, you know.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Keep it fresh. You before you were writing or while you were Writing. You had an Etsy shop, is that right? And what was the name of the shop?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's called Fourth Wave.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay, and what did you guys do? You got. It was pretty successful, right?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, it was really successful. We, we printed T shirts. We had a little studio and we, We PR it. They were like, you know, we took vintage, like suffrage era designs that we started out with and you know, things kind of like some of these stories in the books that people had kind of forgotten about or they were on a postage stamp or something. And so we. I felt like I needed some kind of like rah rah support while I was going through that faith transition in my life and needed some. Needed some role models, needed some courage. So put those on some T shirts and they really took off. And yeah, we printed them in a little studio for quite a while and. Yeah, but you don't have anymore. I have it, but it's way pared down. So I. Yes, it's much more of a side thing now than it used to be.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

What is your writing process for all of your books and is it the same every time?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's pretty much the same every time. I get an idea that won't leave my head, I write 20 pages of notes that don't make sense to anybody else but me, and then I set those aside and I just write. So I stock my brain full of all of the thoughts and ideas and then some people plot it out chapter by chapter. I. I get it all in my head and then I just go. Otherwise it feels like I don't have room to discover all the little things.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That a pants are.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Pretty much a pantser. Yeah.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

When Lucy Score was here right before you, she said she's bald.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Both. I admire that person.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I don't know how anyone does anything because I just speak into a recording device and then transcribe. I can't. I don't think I could sit down and like, fully do any of that.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I've tried that though. I've tried transcribing and my brain doesn't work that way.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, I think it just depends on the person.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's your brain. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Do you have a favorite book out of all the ones that you've written?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I feel like I have a soft spot for Ask for Andrea because that is the one I get the most, like, emails about that make my heart like, oh, it get. It seems to resonate especially with people who have lost a loved one or. And they'll send, you know, really meaningful emails about it. How that book Meant something to them.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Was that the book that was the angel shot with the bathroom. And it.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, it was inspired by that.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So I had never heard of that. And for those of you who are listening and have never heard of this, there's. And Emily is a bartender, so she. What is it? It's the angel shot where you're like, ask the bartender for an angel shot if you're in danger kind of deal.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I didn't know that was a thing.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, it started in the uk. It was Ask for Angela is the campaign in the UK where you. That's the code word for if you need help and you're on a date. And then in the US A lot of people started doing the angel shot for if you're on a date and you, you know, your date's making you uncomfortable or you need help. And that's the code word. They'll have them in the women's bathrooms A lot of the time.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I was gonna say they had. They have to make it universal. Who don't know about. It should be, like, on a sign in the bathroom or like, whatever the code word is, because obviously, if predators know that it's, you know, that's the code word. So I feel like switching it up a little bit. But having it in the women's bathroom would be super helpful. And that was cool that your book raised awareness, probably unintentionally, even.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That's really cool.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

How do you name your characters in your book? Because we always talk about character names.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It's such a good question. I feel like I first weed out the names of people that I know that will be upset.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

That would be upset.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

That will be upset if they're the name of a character that dies. Dies or is.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I just want to be named after. I just want a character named after me. I don't care if she dies. I just want a character named after me.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I mean, you have a great name, so. Yes, please.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

You can. If you want to mix up the spelling, that's fine.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Excellent.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. So I think the character names that stick out are always really cool.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I do, too. Yeah. I mean, not every character can be named Mike. You've got a. Yeah, for sure.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Not.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah. It can't be too out there, because then the audio narrators struggle. But. But yeah, it's a fun. It's like naming babies.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

True.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. I mean, you could always name your characters baby names that are on the baby name list. Because I feel like so many women have a list of baby names, so there's all your characters?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Have you. Are your kids old enough to know that you write books?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

They are. They're 16 and 13.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Oh, they're teenagers.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay. So we were having kids at the same time. Yeah. What had. What is their reaction? Do they read the them?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

They do. They're, like, in the cool teenager zone, but also they are proud of it. They. So they talk about it a lot, like, with their. Their camp counselors. They'll always kind of pull me aside when I pick them up and say, you know, your. Your son was talking a lot about your books today, and it's really sweet. I. That makes me feel good. So my son has read a couple of them, but he told me now he wants to read books with more deep symbolism, like 1984 and One Flew over the Kukus Goose Nest. So there's not quite 1984 levels of vibes in my book. So he's. He's moving out a little bit.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Is that like historical fiction?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, literary fiction. Historical.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I don't know what the genres are. What is literary fiction?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Literary fiction is like a blend of a lot of different genres, so it's not just one thing. Like, my books are pretty much thrillers. They're suspense thrillers. So literary. It's like a little romance, a little drama, a little history, a little, like, deeper meaning about what's going on in the world.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay. But none Left to Tell would be a historical suspense or historical thriller.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Historical thriller. It leans a little more literary because you're pulling in, you know, some drama, some. Some family saga.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Can we talk about the. That story a little bit?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, yeah.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

So the mountains.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

The Mountain Meadows Massacre.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I had no idea that even existed. Had no idea it happened. Could you give our listeners sort of like a synopsis.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Of what the Mountain Meadows Massacre was?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So the Mountain Meadows massacre happened in 1857. It was. Wagon trains were going through Utah on their way to reach California. There was a lot of conflict between the Mormons who lived in Utah, and the US Government at the time. So. And the Mormons had been through a lot by that point. They had been run out of their homes in Illinois, in Missouri. And they were like, hey, we're in Utah. This is our place. Nobody's going to mess with us again, especially not the government, who turned a blind eye when we got pushed out of our homes. But then you have these wagon trains coming. You have the army that's coming to replace Brigham Young as governor of Utah, and there's just this, like, intense powder keg of a moment in history. There are cattle raids that are happening that are being encouraged by church leaders to show the US Government how bad things will be for the pioneers coming through Utah if Brigham Young is to be replaced as governor. One of these cattle raids gets out of hand, ends up in a standoff with these about 134 people from Arkansas. They're now trapped in this standoff with Mormon settlers. They decide that they need to eliminate these travelers from Arkansas. So it's a wholesale massacre of this group of unarmed. They draw them out under a false surrender. They are all killed, except for this very small group of children that is then farmed out to families in Utah, renamed Rebaptized. They thought that they were too young to remember what had happened, but they remember. But many of them did remember. And when the U.S. army found out what had happened, they covered up the massacre. When the US army found out what had happened, they come back in and they emancipate these children two years later and brought them back to their grandparents and family members that were still in Arkansas. So that's, that's it in a nutshell. But it was just a. Because church, church leaders, high ranking church leaders oversaw ordered this massacre. It was a lot of lay members of the church that participated, including so many of a lot of prominent Mormons ancestors that they were, they were told to show up and bring a shovel to bury dead bodies. And then when they got there, they said, actually, we need you to, to kill all these people. It was, it was kind of a bait and switch and, you know, fulfill your, your priesthood duties and this is what God wants. So we've got to kill these people because they know too much about what we've been doing to orchestrate these cattle raids. They know it's not, they tried to set up the Indians, the native people as to take the fall for this massacre. But yeah, it's a complicated story. I feel like every time I try to sum it up, I'm like, oh man. But there's this whole other aspect of it that's so important, which is why part of why I felt like I wanted to write a whole book about it because most of the people killed were women and children and it was these, yeah, these lay members of the church that were mostly good people by all accounts, who carried out this like, atrocious massacre with essentially their bare hands, with, you know, clubs and, and knives and. Yeah, it's, it's a really harrowing story about, I think, fundamentalism and fanaticism and what we can do, can be pushed to do in the name of, you know, beliefs, faiths. Yeah, for sure.

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Did you grow up knowing that story already? Like that it even happened? You didn't find out until you were an adult.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I didn't know that it happen. I. In my family records, it's, it's still in the records that it was committed by, by Indians, that this massacre was committed by Indians and that the people who were killed, you know, deserved it because they had been part of the, you know, group that had run the Mormons out of Illinois way back when. And none of that is true, but that's the way it was passed down. And it was a victim blaming thing, but I guess justified that in the people's minds.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So growing up in Mormonism, how did you sort of separate what you grew up around and what your family taught you and the church taught you? How did you separate? I guess how did you decide that you were going to still write about this even though you grew up in Mormonism?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, yeah, it's tricky because I worried that it would really hurt my family to see this story. But ironically, I felt like it gave me a lot of compassion as I try it, because I write from the perspective of my fourth great grandmother in the book and, you know, putting myself back into her mindset of what it would be like to be forced out of your home and feel like you're up against the wall and your faith means everything to you and you've got this, you know, impossible, awful thing that you've been asked to hide or asked to do was a good exercise in empathy and connecting with those people, even though they did something really awful. So I, I don't know how. I mean, learning about things like the Mountain Meadows massacre was one of the reason that I left. It was because I didn't know about any of it. And I felt like I had. When I started asking questions about it, they were shut down very quickly. And so I didn't. I felt betrayed that I didn't know about it and that I was so forcefully shut down when I started asking questions that I felt a lot of anger for a while when I thought about stories like this. And so I. It was weird, as weird as it sounds, a little bit of a healing process to write this book and try to find that empathy and that. That connection back to those ancestors, even though they were not really on the right side of history.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

How did you hear about it? If. So you were still within, you were still in the church when you heard about this?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

And then I started looking beyond official church sources, too, because I had questions. You know, I heard. I heard murmurings about stories, and I didn't know what they were. It was like, you know, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, somebody would say is like that this is a test of our faith. And like, well, what's a test of our faith?

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, like, you had no idea.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I, I had no idea what it was. And so I, I wanted to know, but there was nothing I could find in official church sanctioned sources to tell me what it was. And so I, I, you know, did my research using sources that were very reputable, and then those sources were, are, you know, they're very threatening. Those stories are threatening to some, Some faith. They can be threatening to faith, I think, for some people.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Do. Do your kids know about the mountains? They do they. Do you guys talk about it? Do they ask questions?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, they do. I mean, they didn't grow up Mormon. I had. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I had left by that point. But, yeah, they're. They're fascinated by hearing the different stories of, you know, things that, that I thought back when I was.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Their age and yeah, it. It's cool to be able to have some of those conversations with them.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

For sure. I had to look it up though, because when I was reading it, I was like, do I have this detail right? And I need to make sure. Like I was tracking exactly how it happened. And so I looked it up and then I quickly was like, I don't. I can't. Like it was.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It was hard to read those. No, but it was so important, like.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Necessary story to tell. And so that was. What is the juxtaposition? So it, it was, you know, it's an important story to know about and to. Because I don't know anyone, anytime I've brought up that book, nobody has heard of the mountains, the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

That's the response for the most part. I, I love hearing from readers that had never heard about it. And that's the same reaction every time. It. I'm not usually a woo woo person. I feel like I, you know, I. I swung hard away from spirituality when I left the faith that I had grown up in. But writing that book pulled me back to it a little bit. And I feel like there were so many experiences I had where it felt like somebody was just like nudging right over my shoulder the whole time. Like the story wanted to be told as. Yeah, as. As woo woo as that sounds. It did. I. I got to go and visit the massacre site after I had wr book and that was a really like, sobering and cool experience. It's very unchanged from what it was. It's out in southern Utah and it's just rolling hills. There's a little plaque and it's just mass graves everywhere that are still out there because they were women and children running for their lives. There was. And then, you know, left to be torn apart by animals after they were done. But yeah, you can. There was a heaviness with that book that like lifted once it was out there.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Right.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

And it was. I, I don't know. I've never experienced anything like that before.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Would you write another historical thriller?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No, no. I. It was a lot. Especially when the rest of my books are like, they're heavy topics too. But that one. I tried to stay the most true that I possibly could. If anything, I felt like I was trying to tone things down for the sake of belie. Because what happened was so outrageous and so brutal and so successfully covered up for so many years. So felt important to me to try to stay as true as possible. Which meant wading through a lot of really dense, wonderful historical references to. To try to piece together what had happened. So it was a treasure. I don't know that treasure hunt is the right word. A lot of rabbit trails to go down for.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sure, sure. And then you wrote Such Quiet Girls. Yes, and also loosely based on another case. Because I was thinking about the container or like the underground part of it, and I was like, hold on, I've definitely heard this somewhere, but I didn't know where. I couldn't place it.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes. So it was the Chowchilla kidnapping that happened in the 70s where they kidnapped an entire school bus full of children and then transferred them into this underground shipping container to try to hold them for ransom. And then the shipping container started caving in. So it was was then up to these kids to try to escape and get out. Yeah, yeah. So that just another light book.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Well, I think we finished it in a couple of. Alessandra, Emily and I all read it.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, no, I was like, I cannot place this story. Like I was thinking Elizabeth Smart. I couldn't remember who was held in the backyard. And it was like a blonde girl and they like kept her talking about. That's what I thought it was. So how do you decide which ones you're gonna like, cover? Do you know what I mean? Like I I one episode of Morbid podcast that lives rent free. In my head are these two Canadian farmers who used to like murder women and feed them to the pigs.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh my gosh.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And it was like everything but their teeth and their hair or something like that. And it was a four part episode. So it was like four episodes to tell tell this story. Like that has. And I listened to that probably like three years ago. So is it you just get an idea from a case and you're like, oh, I could definitely build off this.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

That. Yeah, it's definitely part of that. Some of it is like, could I reimagine this in a modern setting? Yeah, and that's a fun, like creative exercise. But also there's usually some aspect of it, especially since they took place in like the 70s or the 80s, that like some someone, one of the survivors or the victims was done a huge disservice. Like in the such Quiet Girls, the bus driver got the lion's share of the credit for having saved the children. But it was actually the 14 year old boy named Mike who like fought. He was like, I'm gonna find a way out of here. And like in the story the bus driver is like, well, let's just do what the kidnappers say. Let's, let's kind of keep calm. Let's not rattle, you know, any cages. Let's, let's just wait and see what happens. And if they had done that, they likely would not have survived. So. But in the aftermath of the story, the grownup got credit for heroism when. And these children who had like been pretty big heroes themselves, they didn't really get the credit for that part of the story. So I wanted to put their story forward a little bit. So yeah, it felt like there was some piece of the puzzle that didn't get enough justice done to it. In the original.

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[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Place and you are a big fan of Google Docs?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Also same except for when a ton of people are in it and you can't figure out who is typing. What do you write your books on Google Docs?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh yeah, I love Google Docs.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It's a game changer. Social media. Not social media. But like all technology has changed the game for everybody I feel.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Is there any author that you would love to collab with?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh that's a good question.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

First of all, would you even do a collab?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Well that's the thing. I think my brain just says no because I know it would be so messy and it would be such a like lot of back and forth that I don't know how it would work logistically. I always am so curious about people who do it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Well you ghost wrote before a ghost wrote so I guess you.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, that was pretty clean though. Like they the book is in their name. They have all the credit. I just get paid a flat fee for the ghost writing part of it. So clean break. But if yes, I guess if you both of your names were on it and you did it with a publisher then that would be cool. I would I would collaborate with, you know, any of my hero authors. Frida would be just a dream. Faith Gardner and Steph Nelson are a couple of my, like, BFF authors. We read each other's books when they're in the early stages, so they would be really fun to collaborate with. We already do to some degree when we're writing our first drafts.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Do you ever, like, share ideas with another author and you're like, here, I don't. I was gonna write about this, but I can't, so here you go. Yeah, you do.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, we totally do.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Cool.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

We also, whenever we hear a unique name, we call dibs. So the first person to dibs it. So I will. I will. Dibs. Kale.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Take it. And then we have Alyssa. Not Alyssa.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Lissa.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

We have Alessandra. Madison's pretty common.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

Sorry, I don't think Emily's pretty common.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So we got some. We got some unique. When you hit a wall or get writer's block, what is your strategy or solution to that?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

2. I mean, boring things like, I pet my cat or what's your cat's name? Dolly Parton.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Help. I love that for you.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

What is it about falling for a killer that led to Ask for Andrea?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I think that was one of the first documentaries I watched about Ted Bundy where it wasn't all about Ted Bundy as the big bad. Like, yes, Ted Bundy is horrifying and scary, but that one got me in the emotions because it was about the women that. Whose lives were cut short and who were, you know, this ripple effect of this horrifying cannonball that got. Blew up everybody's lives. But it was just another good reminder, which I feel like we need to come back to all the time in true crime spaces in our consumption. Like, what are we. What are we doing here? Like, who are we focusing on? Like, is it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I always ask that. I'm like, why are we so obsessed with true crime? And is it doing any harm to the families that were like, we're consuming this and it's. Is it for them or is it for, you know, the person that committed the crime?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's a question we need to keep asking ourselves.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. On one of my other podcasts, my co hosts, when she reads articles, she won't talk about the killer's name because she's like, I'm not giving them credit. I was like, oh, I kind of actually like that.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I love that.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It's like sharing the memory of the victims or the survivors or whatever. But, yeah, okay. For your Writing process. How do beta readers shape your final drafts, if at all?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So much so I have that core group of thriller authors. There's four of us, and we. We go pretty deep with beta reading for each other. You know, it's no holds barred. If you hated something, say it straight up. Don't. Don't dance around it. You don't sugarcoat it. So I laugh out loud reading their comments sometimes because they do not hold, and I don't either, because then you don't have to wonder, like, are they saying they don't like it, but they really hate it, or, you know, just say it if you hate it. So we. We read each other's drafts. We give really honest feedback, and then, you know, then I have those things in the back of my head as I go on to line edits and copy edits to know if I've done a good enough job addressing their concerns. Because usually those are the things that come up that I just need to, like, shave off another layer. Like, is this character too annoying? Is this character deep enough? You know, does this make sense when the. The Volvo is going off the side of the road, which direction we're headed, or is that still confusing? You know, those types of things.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sorry. Beta readers are different than ARC readers.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes. So ARC readers are at the end of the process. Once this book baby is heading out into the world, then it's book influencers, reviewers that are going to be able to get, like, the first look at the finished book.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Well, add us to the list.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Have you ever used sensitivity readers?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I have especially for none left to tell. Like, I'm a white woman. I did my darndest to research what I could about the native woman that was represented in my book. I would not leave her out. Like, that voice has been left out of that story intentionally for so many decades. So that was not an option, and I would not do that, but that I recognize who I am and that I just don't have that cultural background and sensitivity. So I brought in a number of sensitivity readers just to read the book, you know, through that lens and see what stood out to them and took the common threads of that and revised and did my best. You know, there's. There's always going to be missteps, but the best I can do to avoid them, then I feel like, like, that's on me as the author to do it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Good for you. I had never heard of a sensitivity reader. I think Abby Jimenez was the first person to mention sensitivity reader to me, and I had no idea what it was. And then Kennedy Ryan said that she was using sensitivity readers. And so, new to me. Has there ever been feedback from either a beta reader or an arc reader that you. It has just stuck with you. Maybe it was funny or maybe it changed the entire, you know, way that you shifted a story. Has anything ever stuck out to you in that way?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, that's a really good question. I wish I could think. There's just so many. I think on my last beta read of the book that I'm finishing the draft up of now, she left 497 comments. So just on, you know, every little thing, which is what I want. So I don't even know if I can pick one, though. There's just. It's like a fire hydrant of great hard feedback. Yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Okay. How do you craft such high tension without relying on physical violence, like graphic violence in your books?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I guess I just go back to what I feel most scared by and what makes me feel most like tension in an engaging way. Like, I don't like a lot of gore in the movies that I watch. I don't like reading about a lot of gore because it almost shuts me down instead of keeping me engaging with what's happening. And it. It's almost like in horror where, like, if you show the monster too much, it does something to your brain that you're not, like, scared of the monster anymore. I feel like leaving. Even if there is some. Some horrific gore or whatever that's just part of the story, I feel like focusing on that almost flips a switch in our brains where it's just like, we get into, like, ew or like, hyper focused on the details of what the injury looks like. And I think it takes away sometimes from what's actually happening in the momentum and what the characters are feeling and what. What matters most to me about, like, the survival story or the. Or the bravery or whatever. So I want to focus on. On those things and acknowledge, but not, like, get lost in them.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sure. So I guess the difference between Thriller and maybe horror.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah, for sure.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I know most. I think all of your books are standalones.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Would you ever revisit any of them and create a series out of any of them?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So I am doing that with my next release. I am writing a prequel to Ask for Andrea. So I. I never talk about or delve into the idea of, like, who was Andrea? Like, who was the girl that inspired this campaign? Like, the Ask for Angela campaign in the uk, like, who was this girl? So that's what the book looks at. So it's a standalone. It's that same world. We've got a living character and a dead character. It ties into a true story. But yes, it's that same world that we get into with kind of the ghosts and the living and true crime.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So is that the new. Is that you're going to be your next release, or is there any in between?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It will come out in November of this year. Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

So you had two books in one year.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

How many books would you publish? Or do you publish in an average? Like, on average in a year?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

So it helped a little bit that I had a backlog of a lot of things brewing, because when I was like, these books, I don't know if they're. We're going to see the light of day. So I had a head start with those. And so honing and getting them out there has been nice. Nice. But I will be slowing down a little bit after this to more of a. A one book a year cadence. That feels doable.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. Because I think. How many drafts you do per book, do you think?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Oh, gosh.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Or does it vary?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Probably seven or eight. By the time I go through all of my beta readers, they're not like, blow the book up and rewrite the book, but, you know, they're. They're honing, they're rereading the entire book probably seven or eight times.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

And then for your audiobooks, do you ever pick the cast?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Uhhuh.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

You do?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah. So I. I work with Simon and Schuster on my audiobooks, and they usually send me, like, four different options that I can listen to samples and find the one I think works best for the book.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Such Quiet Girls had a full cast. Did you want a full cast for it or is that their idea that they were like, okay, they're going to do this?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I. I mean, they. They proposed it and I was super excited about it.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I definitely don't think you can listen to every book on audio because sometimes the narration is just not great. But having a full cast will make such a difference.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

It absolutely does. Yeah. I was really happy with how that one turned out.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Would you ever narrate your own?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

No. I have seen how much work goes into audio production, and I'm just gonna let my strength be writing.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. Understood. Do you ever read your Goodreads reviews?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

You do?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I totally do. Yes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I think so far every author has said no.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I hear that a lot and I respect it. But I feel like if I'm gonna ask readers to engage with this book and spend their time, their money spending, you know, hours with this, then the least I can do is like respect their feedback to me. And that seems to mean a lot to my readers. And it doesn't bother me if somebody hates the book. Like it doesn't bother you. It really doesn't. Like, books are. It used to bother me, but I spent a lot of time reading the 1 star reviews of my favorite books and my favorite authors and there's a lot of them. So it, the one thing that will get to me is if somebody starts going after like the person who wrote the book, like whether it's me or somebody else. There's not very many of them. Thankfully those ones will get to me a little bit. Right. But yes, I do read the reviews. I, it's not for everybody, but I, I like it and I feel like I take away useful things from them about what readers are looking for, what they universally don't like, what they do. So it's helpful. I don't do it every day.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah, no, I mean your mental health.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

But once in a while you did it every day.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

I haven't seen bad reviews about your books though. I recently started trying to make mine funny. Funnier. If I don't love it, I like that. Well, because I get to meet a lot of authors on the podcast and I just never want to like on someone's work. You know, I mean, there's been a couple books that I don't love, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna love the next book that they that same person. So it's not the author. It's just like that book specifically just wasn't for me.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

You know what I mean? And my last question is, do audiobooks count as reading?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Yes. Hell yes.

[Sponsor Voice (Multiple Ads)]

You're reading.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

You're reading with your ears instead of your eyes.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Consuming the book. Yes. But does it count as reading?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I think it does. Somebody, I heard somebody talk about it, especially in terms of accessibility, you know, for blind readers or for. So I was like, you know, we're, we're engaging with the story and consuming the story and what is reading aside from that. So in my mind, yes, I know it's a great debate.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

It is a great debate, especially on book talk. So I want we should just get a compilation of all the authors that answer the question, where can people find you on socials and where can people find your books?

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I am on social media most places at Noelle Ilyauthor and you can find my books on Amazon and increasingly in most bookstores.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for being on Barely Famous.

[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Thank you so much. It was great to be here.

[Podcast Host (Interviewer)]

Sam Foreign.

[Adam Rippon (Intrusive Thoughts Podcast Host)]

Hi, I'm Adam Rippon and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent free in my head for years. From dumb decisions to awkward moments I probably should have kept to myself. Nothing's off limits. Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects. I've been told to chill. Will I Unclear, but if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations. You found your people. Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

I'm coming in hot.

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[Noelle Eiley (Author, Guest)]

Wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, protect your dog from parasites with Cridellio Quattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit cordelioquatrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quattro and visit quattrodog.com.