Surviving Weinstein: Kaja Sokola’s Story of Strength

Summary

Barely Famous Podcast Episode Summary
Episode Title: Surviving Weinstein: Kaja Sokola’s Story of Strength
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Kaja Sokola
Duration: Approximately 50 minutes

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1. Introduction

In this powerful episode of Barely Famous, host Kail Lowry engages in a deeply personal and harrowing conversation with Kaja Sokola, a former model and clinical psychologist. Kaja shares her courageous journey of survival and advocacy following her assault by Harvey Weinstein, shedding light on the pervasive issues within the modeling and entertainment industries.

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2. Early Career and Arrival in the United States

Kaja Sokola recounts her move from Poland to the United States at the age of 15 to pursue her dreams in modeling and acting.

Notable Quote:

[02:15] Kaja Sokola: "When I came here alone at 16, it was like jumping into deep water. Managing everything by myself was extremely challenging."

She describes the difficulties of being away from family, navigating a foreign country without the conveniences of modern technology, and living in cramped accommodations with other young models under minimal supervision.

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3. Encounter with Harvey Weinstein

Kaja details the pivotal moment when she met Harvey Weinstein at a modeling dinner organized by promoters.

Notable Quote:

[05:04] Kaja Sokola: "I was extremely happy when I met him. He saw potential in me as an actress, and I believed him without fear."

Initially, Kaja did not suspect any wrongdoing, having had positive interactions with male agents and supervisors. However, this trust was shattered when Weinstein manipulated her into a situation that led to her assault.

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4. The Assault and Immediate Aftermath

Kaja describes the assault as a nightmare that unfolded within moments of what seemed like a promising professional relationship.

Notable Quote:

[06:22] Kaja Sokola: "He sexually assaulted me in his apartment, knowing I was just 16. It was creepy and disgusting."

She reflects on her initial disbelief and the psychological manipulation that made her question her own perceptions and safety.

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5. Impact and Personal Struggles

The trauma from the assault weighed heavily on Kaja, leading her to struggle with internal conflicts and feelings of shame despite knowing she was not at fault.

Notable Quote:

[10:01] Kaja Sokola: "It's like Stockholm syndrome. I was so connected to him and scared that I couldn't tell anyone."

She highlights the complexity of overcoming such trauma, especially as a young, isolated individual in a foreign country.

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6. Legal Battles and Trials

Kaja discusses her legal battles against Weinstein, including both criminal and civil cases. She shares the emotional toll of reliving her trauma during trials and the betrayal she felt when her sister testified against her.

Notable Quote:

[19:41] Kaja Sokola: "My sister changed her testimony in court to portray me differently. It felt like she was trying to hurt me."

The complexities of the legal system, combined with public scrutiny and personal betrayal, made the journey even more arduous for Kaja.

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7. Support and Community

Despite the challenges, Kaja found solace and strength in connecting with other victims, fostering a sense of community and shared resilience.

Notable Quote:

[09:49] Kaja Sokola: "Speaking with other survivors like Jessica and Cassie helped me ease into the trial process and heal."

She emphasizes the importance of solidarity among survivors in combating the isolation often felt after such experiences.

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8. Shift to Mental Health Advocacy

Turning her trauma into a force for good, Kaja pursued a degree in clinical psychology. Her personal experiences equipped her to support others facing similar struggles, particularly in the modeling and entertainment industries.

Notable Quote:

[33:44] Kaja Sokola: "Psychologists working with modeling agencies could provide essential support to models dealing with immense pressure and abuse."

Her academic and professional path highlights the intersection of personal healing and public advocacy.

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9. Reflections on the Industry

Kaja offers a critical analysis of the modeling and acting industries, citing systemic exploitation, lack of protections for young women, and the normalization of predatory behavior by powerful men.

Notable Quote:

[35:37] Kaja Sokola: "The fashion industry is extremely exploitive to young women, with many working illegally and vulnerable to predators."

She calls for structural changes, including better psychological support and stricter regulations to protect aspiring models and actors.

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10. Advice to Victims and Changing Perceptions

Addressing both survivors and skeptics, Kaja advocates for empathy, understanding, and professional support for victims of sexual assault. She dismisses victim-blaming attitudes and emphasizes the need for societal change in how these issues are perceived and handled.

Notable Quote:

[39:03] Kaja Sokola: "I dare you to say it to my face. I wish nobody would be in a situation like this."

She urges victims to seek help and assures them that their experiences are valid, regardless of when or how they choose to come forward.

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11. Conclusion

Kaja Sokola's story is one of immense strength and resilience. By sharing her experiences, she not only highlights the dark realities of powerful predatory behavior in the entertainment industry but also underscores the importance of mental health advocacy and support systems for survivors. Her journey from victim to advocate serves as an inspiring testament to the power of courage and the pursuit of justice.

Final Quote:

[57:30] Kaja Sokola: "Sometimes it's easier to talk to a stranger, like a counselor, to begin the healing process. Opening up is the most important step."

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Key Takeaways

• Trust and Vulnerability: Young individuals in the modeling and acting industries often navigate environments with little oversight, making them vulnerable to exploitation.

• Impact of Trauma: Psychological manipulation and assault have profound and lasting effects, often complicating the healing process.

• Legal System Challenges: Navigating the legal system as a survivor is fraught with emotional and procedural obstacles, including potential betrayal by close relations.

• Importance of Community Support: Building connections with other survivors can provide crucial emotional support and strength.

• Advocacy and Change: Transforming personal trauma into advocacy work can drive significant industry and societal changes, promoting better protections and support for victims.

• Empathy and Understanding: Shifting societal perceptions to one of empathy rather than skepticism is essential in supporting survivors of sexual assault.

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Kaja Sokola's appearance on Barely Famous is a compelling narrative that not only sheds light on her personal ordeal but also serves as a broader commentary on the systemic issues within powerful industries. Her dedication to helping others and pushing for meaningful change offers hope and guidance for both survivors and advocates.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Host]

Welcome to the show.

[Kale]

Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous.

[Host]

Today's guest is Kaya Sicola, a former model, clinical psychologist, and one of the brave voices who came forward against her. Harvey Weinstein has since dedicated her life to mental health advocacy, using her experience and training to support survivors of trauma and abuse. We're honored to have her here and share her story and insight. All right, Kaia, thank you so much for joining us on Barely Famous Podcast.

[Kaya Sicola]

Thank you for having me.

[Host]

You have a very powerful story to share, and for those who are not familiar with it, you came over here from Poland to pursue modeling and acting, is that right?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes. Yes. Well, my dream was always acting, modeling. You know, I started working when I was 14, and it happened very fast. I did not love this industry, but, you know, I was working. I had a good agency, so I was working. But when I was 16, I came here for the first time and really wanted to proceed in acting.

[Host]

Did your family come with you over here?

[Kaya Sicola]

No.

[Host]

You were here by yourself?

[Kaya Sicola]

I was here by myself completely.

[Host]

So what was that like?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, right now, when I look at kids that are 15, because I started traveling by myself when I was 15, it's like. It's scary because 15 is still a kid, Right? It's very young. And so I just took it as something that came naturally. And, you know, I was supposed to do that. I was a. I was a good student, and I was pretty obedient when it comes to instructions that I was getting. But, you know, back then, we had to still use paper maps. Yeah, it was. It was. It was hard.

[Host]

I'm sure. It was challenging.

[Kaya Sicola]

It was very challenging. And, you know, just like, taking care of what you eat to have, you know, managing food, managing sleep, everything by yourselves. It was definitely. It was like a jump on the deep water.

[Host]

Did your agency help you with that? And where would you. How did you live over here at 15, 16 years old with no family?

[Kaya Sicola]

The model's apartment.

[Host]

What?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah. Four girls at, you know, the tiny space, probably like one third of this. And there was supposed to be a supervisor.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

But basically it was just, you know.

[Host]

A free for all.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay. And then, so how did you end up meeting Harvey then? Because Obviously you were 15, 16 years old and he's what, in his 50s?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

So how did you come across him?

[Kaya Sicola]

He came across me, actually. It was. I went for, like, a modeling dinner where promoters invite, you know, girls. And that's how naive I was. I was so shocked and so thankful for inviting me for dinner because it's, you know, it's free food and a great restaurant. And I kept on thinking, like, what are these people getting from, you know, inviting models to dinners? And obviously it's just, you know, kind of pimping out girls or promoting the club. I mean, I would call it that right now.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Host]

You know, but for what, though?

[Kaya Sicola]

Like, there are, you know, when there are pretty young girls in the clubs or in the restaurants, a lot of wealthy men are coming in hopes of meeting someone, meeting a soulmate. I'm kidding. But, yeah, that's. That's. That's how it works, you know.

[Host]

So he was invited then to the dinner?

[Kaya Sicola]

He was there. He was. Yeah, he was the. So Butter had a restaurant on top and then like a small club downstairs. So after the dinner, I went downstairs, and there he was.

[Host]

Did you guys hit it off right away? Like, friendly?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, it's. You know, I. I was extremely happy when I met him. And when he said that he's a. He's a producer and that he sees potential in me and, you know, I look like an actress. How do actresses look like? Actually, they have. They are like unicorns. You can see one. You can spot it. But. But yeah, so at this. At the moment, I of course, believed him. And I did not had any fear of men like that because I've never experienced. I mean, I had a great relationship with my dad, and he was. He was like a role model, you know, and he was always very respectful to women, to my mom. And so, you know, it really did not cross my mind that this man can be any. Any. Any kind of. Can bring any kind of danger into my life. Also, you know, in modeling agents, I had agents that were men, I had agents that were women. And I never experienced anything bad from them either. So I, you know, I thought, okay, that's like another kind of like an agent, producer, agent. It's the same, same thing.

[Host]

So you developed like a working relationship at that point?

[Kaya Sicola]

I did, I did. You can't call that a working relationship. So few days after we met, he invited me for lunch. And again, I didn't, you know, I didn't see this as something unusual. I thought, you know, a lunch, it's a, you know, in the middle of the day, what can go wrong, right? We're going to go to a restaurant. That's what he said. But when I got into the car, there was a driver in the car. He was on phone for a little bit and then he seemed kind of like upset or stressed and he said that he doesn't have time for lunch. So we're just going to talk. And I mean right now, when I'm hearing myself, it's kind of like, my God, this was such a cliche example of how a day rape looks like. But again, I didn't have fear in me until we got to the elevator that was taking us to his apartment. Then I got very uncomfortable, obviously, but he didn't, you know, he didn't talk much and. Yes. And then he sexually assaulted me in the apartment, knowing that I'm 16 years old, which for me, this itself, it's just so creepy and disgusting and I'm just gonna jump forward a little bit.

[Host]

Yeah, of course.

[Kaya Sicola]

I remember when he was saying, when he was talking to the press during this trial, the criminal trial, and Harvey was apologizing to his family, to his wife, to his kids. He was saying that he did immoral things, but never anything criminal. Well, you know what, how assaulting a 16 year old girl you can call immoral but not criminal. And he didn't even apologize to any of his victims, which to me it's like it's another level of narcissistic psychosis.

[Host]

It's. It feels like another crime. Right. Like you're apologizing to everyone except for the people that you did you traumatized. Yes. Have you connected with the other victims at all?

[Kaya Sicola]

I spoke to Jessica. Jessica is really amazing. Tara Lee, Tarala speaks to Cassie. So it's, I feel like we are getting, you know, it's kind of like a tiny community. You can maybe say, right. Of, of women. Because it, I mean, I don't think that anyone can really truly understand what it feels like to, you know, go through trial. Go, go, you know, open up the wounds and public publicly speak about, you know, the biggest TR your life if they didn't go through it. So that's why Tara was extremely helpful. She was, she was there during the first trial in 2020 as a Molina witness. So, you know, talking to her really helped me to kind of ease into this whole process of, of trial and the aftermath of it.

[Host]

After he assaulted you the first time because you were so young, obviously you can't be faulted for. Not really. Where do you go from there? You know what I mean? So what, where did you go from there? Did you tell anyone?

[Kaya Sicola]

I didn't, I didn't. I didn't tell anyone. Look, I was so. Because it's, it's like a Stockholm syndrome. Like you are so connected to the perpetrator and so scared of him that, you know, it's, it's really hard even as a grown woman to talk about this.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

And I, I really loved recently I read something that Charlize Theron actually said about her hair abuser. And it also, she said that it took her many decades to speak about this and her using her voice and saying that don't judge people that don't come forward with it. It's a trauma and it takes a long time. We have this ideal scenario that right after you rape you go to the doctor, get examined, get checked and talk to your friends. No, that's not always how it is. So Miriam, who was Mimi, who was also in this trial, she actually told, I think she was like the only one that talked to a friend right after this happened. But when she was assaulted, she was 29 years old. So there's a huge difference between a 29 year old woman and a 16 or 20. So I mean, I'm super happy that she did speak to someone because it helps in the criminal trial for sure, a lot.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

Because someone supported, you know, what, what she has said. But yeah, but it usually takes really.

[Host]

A long time and I don't, I don't blame any of y' all for that because it's scary and you don't, especially when you look at, you were 16 and he was a man in power, right? Like he had we wealth, he had status, he had, you know what I mean? So like knowing that you're, you are going to go up against someone like that. What are you?

[Kaya Sicola]

Nothing. I wouldn't, I, I honestly, I, at the time, I wouldn't Even know who to talk to.

[Host]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Kale]

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[Host]

So you just kept it to yourself and then the second time you came in contact with him or did you sort of develop a relationship with him after that?

[Kaya Sicola]

We spoke like let' twice per year when I was traveling. But it wasn't like a. Obviously a tight relationship.

[Co-Host]

Right, right, right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But we did speak and I mean he made it, he made sure that I will feel like it's all normal, it's all totally okay. Like he normalized it. And when I was, you know, 16, 17, I felt like, okay, maybe this is, maybe he's right. Maybe this is how it is.

[Host]

Well, that was my next question. Did that sort of shape the way that you looked at the modeling industry? You were like, okay, this is normal. Maybe this is what goes on.

[Kaya Sicola]

For sure. It was crossing my, it was crossing my mind.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

One thing that was difficult for me to understand was he said that he built careers, careers of Gwyneth Patrel and Penelope Cruz. Right. And so I at the same time berated myself because I thought that these actresses, for sure, he didn't do anything to them. So then when Gwyneth Paltrow came forward and spoke about, you know, what he did to her or what he was trying, it was like a huge, I don't want to say relief, but almost like a relief that it's not me. Who was the stupid Polish, you know, teenage model that got herself in a situation like this, but he was just a predator that was, you know, assaulting women all the time.

[Co-Host]

Right?

[Kaya Sicola]

And people, to be fair.

[Co-Host]

Right?

[Host]

So you just, obviously, you don't wish that on anyone, but you felt seen. I'm sure you felt. Yeah, you weren't crazy, because at some point, you look at. You're like, wait, am I crazy? Did that happen? Was it as bad as I thought? And I. I've been there, so I understand. Did you ever think that, okay, if I speak up or I speak out, I'll be blacklisted and I can't continue my career? Did that ever scare you?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, I didn't think about that, but at the time. So when I. When I wrote a. An email to the lawyers that were. At the time of the case in 2017, I think, or 2018, something like that, I was working for. For TV in Poland, and I was managing a rehab clinic. And after the news came out in 2019, yeah, there was a lot of hate. You know, people were trying. I mean, you know, trolls on Internet, but saying that, what kind of a psychologist is she? You know, just kind of degrading my knowledge just because of what happened when I was younger, which is very cruel. And right now we can observe this as well, these waves of, like, hatred, or it's Kassit, or it's, you know, women in Harvey's trial. And I think that that's why these kind of conversations really. Thank you for having me. Are so important. Because, you know, it's. It's so easy to throw dirt at someone who already been traumatized so much. But we are real people, right? We're not just some, you know, pictures on the. In the magazine. We're real women who, you know, who suffered already. Enough. So just enough with the hatred.

[Host]

Well, that was my. One of my next questions, too. One of the things that you've said in other interviews is that you. You know, the. One of the bigger roadblocks is not having laws and protections for victims. What is your experience with that? Because I know you went up against big companies like Disney and things like that, but you. They dismissed, I guess, all of your evidence. Is that right?

[Kaya Sicola]

No, no, no, no. So within the civil case, I.

[Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

And then in this. In the criminal case, the worst part was, you know, knowing that my sister is working with the defense. And I, like, I. It's still hard for me to talk about this because, you know, it. One thing lawyers that are trying to tear you apart. But that's their job, to be fair. Yeah, but, you know, your own sister doing that?

[Host]

Was she here? She was in the US So the reason.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes, the reason why she was testifying is because when I was 19, she actually went with me for lunch with Harvey. And so, you know, she was there testifying about, you know, the fact that we went for lunch together. And then, you know, in her grand jury testimony, she said that when I. That I went with him upstairs, right? That's when he raped me. But when I came back, I was. I didn't tell her, but I was extremely tense, and I didn't speak. I was just. I was kind of mute. You know, I just. I wanted to shut myself down. And then she maybe asked if everything's okay. I didn't answer. And we, you know, kept on going with our day. But it was very clear that something had to happen because, you know, I'm a pretty bubbly, talkative person. And during lunch, you know, I was excited to hear about the movie projects. We're talking during lunch, he was talking about European actresses in American films. And so it kind of felt like, okay, maybe right now he's, you know, he's really wanting to help me. And my sister, who I really wanted to have approval of, was hearing that. So I thought she would also believe that this is not just some kind of a ludicrous idea of mine to be an actress. But here's a producer. He's a man who actually created a lot of careers, and he's saying that I can be the next one. So, you know, it. It again, it felt like there's something good coming out of that.

[Host]

So did you ever have a conversation with your sister about why she would do, like, testify against you?

[Kaya Sicola]

I have not talk to her after that. So what she did in court was I read her testimony. I couldn't be there because the way it works during criminal trials, when. If you are testifying, if you're a victim, you can't be there during other testimonies so that nobody will say that you tailored your testimony to look like others. Right.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

So I didn't know what she exactly said until the end of the trial when I got the transcript. And she completely changed her testimony. She suddenly said that when I got back down, I looked like someone who's waiting for an Oscar. What the fuck is that?

[Host]

What does that mean?

[Kaya Sicola]

She was trying to portray me as, you know, I don't know. I don't know. But for sure, she wanted to paint it differently. And then she changed her testimony so that she was almost impeached. Because she suddenly said that. Yeah. We talked normally, and everything was normal, and everything was, you know, the rest of the day was normal. And then the prosecutors gave her the testimony and said, this is not what you said, you know, last August. And so she started kind of maneuvering that she doesn't remember that English is not her first language and all this kind of bullshit. But obviously, she was, you know, she was really trying to hurt me.

[Host]

But. But why? You guys had a good enough relationship. You said that you always wanted to have her approval. That's really upsetting.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes. So the relationship was, let's say, pure. On my side, I would say that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

Because I. You know, I never wanted to compete. Like, I. I'm not jealous of others. I never really was if, you know, if she's. She's a doctor smart. But, I mean, she did certain things that really, really hurt me, and she continues to try to do that. And unfortunately, I think that money are a big part of this, of the way she acts.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But jealousy probably as well, you know?

[Host]

Yeah. So you go through the trial, you find out that your sister testifies essentially against you.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

You don't have a relationship with her, and you go up against big opponents like Disney. Like we were saying. What. What was the deciding factor for you, where you're like, I am gonna stand up for myself.

[Kaya Sicola]

My son. Yeah, my son. Absolutely. He. He is my reason for everything, truly. And I just love him to death. And. And, you know, I had to. I had to fight for myself from the abuse of my husband.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

My ex husband. And that's when it first started. I started to slowly feel more power because, you know, before I escaped from Poland, I had a separation with my ex for two months. I went to my friend, and I asked her if I can stay there. Then I rented Airbnb apartment. And because the abuse was so horrible, I started to understand that I can't stay in that same situation because it's gonna go on him, on my son. And it started to. And I think that where I'm going with that is that once I started to gain a little bit of power, like feeling stronger, then all the other stuff were. Were easy, let's say, to take in consideration and make decision to, you know, participate in the trials to escape from Poland, to build a new life, but it is very hard.

[Host]

Yeah, I can imagine. I could imagine.

[Co-Host]

All right, y'. All.

[Kale]

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[Host]

When did you first realize that there were other victims that Harvey traumatized?

[Kaya Sicola]

2017, 2018. And it was. I mean, I didn't. I didn't see that impress myself at first, but a friend of mine who knew that I know him, he didn't knew the details, but he knew that I was scared of him. I mean, many people knew that I was scared of him. My friend Tanya knew that I was scared of him, and she wanted to testify on my behalf in the criminal trial, but they didn't have a chance to like, question her.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But so. So yeah, so my friend told me, wrote me a message saying that I don't know what happened between you and Harvey, but check this article out because there are a lot of women that are coming forward and I think it might be helpful for you and useful and so when I read that, I was. I was shocked, Right. I was shocked to hear, you know, these. So first of all, the number of women, like 100, I don't know, like hundreds. Right. And how. And how many are there that didn't speak? Probably a lot more.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

So this. And then, you know, the big names, Angelina, Gwyneth, Patrol, and, you know, many other actresses, and it felt, again, it felt relieving at the same time as, you know, of course, I wouldn't wish it. Wouldn't wish it to anyone.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But it just felt like, you know, I'm not. I'm not the one to be blamed here because this still, you know, it's like the cycle of aggression. It's like in domestic violence situations. Right. Victims still feel like it's, you know, it's almost their fault for a long time because of the gaslighting and everything. Right, right. And so, yeah, so it's. It's hard to get out of this cycle of abuse. And usually also it's a. It's kind of a pattern that, you know, if. If you were assaulted or if you were bullied when you were a kid, this is the kind of relationships that you will continue to. Yeah. Continue until there's going to be therapy and, you know, and just deeper understanding of yourself and, and knowing that, you know, this is my only fault in this happening. Abuse is. Is not knowing myself well enough to set boundaries.

[Host]

Fair. But. So who did you contact then at that point when you saw that there were so many other victims, what is the next step? Who do you call?

[Kaya Sicola]

I wrote an email to Elizabeth Sagan, I think that was her name. She was attorney who brought the first class action case.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

And so after, there were a lot of, like, horrible things happening with the class action case because initially the pot of money was supposed to be something like $140 million for all the women, for hundreds of women. And then they started to downgrade it. Downgrade it, Downgrade it. And it ended up being, I think, 14 million from.

[Host]

140.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah, yeah. That. The, the drop was horrible. And that's when I decided to get out of class action. And I contacted Douglas Vidgore, who is an amazing attorney, and, and filed my own civil case in against Disney.

[Host]

And you won.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes.

[Host]

How terrified were you to go up against a company like Disney?

[Kaya Sicola]

You know what? I understood how big it is when I started talking to people and I saw the, like, the freeze effect. Like, people were scared to even talk about that.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

That's when I Understood that it's a big deal. It is a very big deal. And then again, something that was very helpful was to hear Abigail Disney kind of standing up for me and saying that these compa. This company should pay because they knew that a lot of horrible things are happening, you know, in, in the company.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

And they didn't do nothing about that.

[Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

So it was, it was kind of encouraging. And it was really nice to hear that from her in the article.

[Host]

Absolutely. So now, looking back, you know, obviously we're older. How do you feel about managers and things like that, managing kids in the industry? Right. Because you came over here with no family and you just had to trust your agency.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Host]

And you had to trust their connections and whoever you met. So now we have people that have booking agents and managers and publicists and everything else. Like, do you think that if you had some of those people for you and advocating in your corner that things would have turned out differently?

[Kaya Sicola]

I believe so. I hope so. But I think that, I mean, I don't like fashion industry. I, I, I just don't like it. I think it's very exploitive to, to young women. A lot of girls, I would say the majority of girls are working here without working permits, not legally. And it, this has been happening for years, for decades and decades and decades.

[Host]

And you think that's even true to the, to this day?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, I'm not sure. So I don't want to, I don't.

[Host]

Right, of course.

[Kaya Sicola]

But my assumption is yes.

[Host]

So they're coming out like girls are coming here.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

Not working legally, essentially. Because. For what reason, though? Just because they can't.

[Kaya Sicola]

It takes a long, long time and it takes money to file for the U visa or O visa. The work, the working visa. Work visa. So you know when girls are coming here for, let's say, four weeks in the summer and they're being tested to see if they can work or they can't. Again, my assumption is that not all of them get working visa. Visa, which the process itself takes months.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

So it's not an overnight thing.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Host]

And then they come across people like.

[Kaya Sicola]

Harvey Weinstein and then, and then, you know, it's another layer of fear because you're working illegally. You know, I mean, personally, for me, I was scared that he can get me kicked out of the country or block me from coming here.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Host]

No, that makes sense.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

I could not imagine. So then you take a step back from your modeling career.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes.

[Host]

What was the deciding factor there? You just realized you didn't like, it.

[Kaya Sicola]

A lot of things. I was dating someone who was an actor, and it just. I understood that at this point, this world is too toxic for me, and I need to, like, balance myself out because I'm gonna just go down like a rock, you know, sink. So although I missed, you know, missed this world, missed New York, missed, let's say, traveling, networking and. But. But. Yeah, but I knew that there's. There's no. There's no way I could keep on.

[Host]

Going the way that it. Yeah, the way that it's going.

[Kaya Sicola]

Just to your previous question, what I think should change regarding agents and agencies. I think that there should be psychologists working with models. That's for sure. That's number one. Like, you have sex coordinators on film set. You have psychologists on film set. What about models? Why people don't. Why agents don't want models to work with psychologists. Because what. Because they will say how horrible it is and they will complain, and then the modeling industry will have a bad primary. Well, guess what? It already has a bad pr.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

We know what.

[Host]

Yeah, we know what goes on.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

With models.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

So during this time, when you step away from your modeling career, you go into psychology and you get your degree. What was. Why psychology?

[Kaya Sicola]

I just really wanted to help myself and understand myself.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

And. And throughout the years, I started to really like it, and I started to notice how I can be helpful to others.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

And of course, as a rookie psychologist, I would. Oh, my God, I would make so many mistakes. I apologize to my first patients, but I hope, yeah, you're okay now. But I think first time when I really understand how impactful it can be was when my. When my professor, with whom I was writing my master's thesis, told me that I should actually work on models and eating disorders and body image problems, because that was something that I was very interested in. I suffered from, you know, anorexia and bulimia, and it's really hard to get out of that.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

It really is like addiction. We compare it to addiction. Especially that for women, very often bulimia goes with alcoholism.

[Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

So it's like, it's all connected. But so when I was writing my thesis, I wrote it, I made a research on a group of 90 models or something like that. I don't remember. And, like, the percentage that of the girls that had body image problems are eating disorders was up the roof, you know, and so they're really, you know, there really should be help provided to girls and women working in the show business or in modeling industries.

[Host]

And did you see that a lot when you were modeling yourself?

[Kaya Sicola]

Like, of course.

[Host]

Eating disorders or disordered eating. I just did an episode with Jackie Goldsnyder. She wrote a book on her battle with anorexia. I think it was, like, 15 years or something like that. She was struggling really bad with it. And so.

[Kaya Sicola]

But it's. You know, it never really. I mean, I don't know what she would say, but I personally, I think that it never really ends. Like, you have to have this in mind for the rest of your life because, you know, certain things can just trigger. And, I mean, I. I had so much anxiety during that period that I was, for example, eating compulsively. And I just. And I understand. And I understand that this is my way of trying to cope with stress.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But. But, yeah, it's. You know, it's something that. That really stays like a shadow with you all the time.

[Host]

No regrets for your psychology degree, though.

[Kaya Sicola]

No, no, no.

[Host]

The. This trial was the inception of the MeToo movement. So what was. What was it like dealing with the criticism of that?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah, I think that, you know, a lot of people were saying that metoo is dead. And. And unfortunately, I think that it's not bad, but not in a good condition. We saw it in the Diddy trial and this trial that there is some kind of a shift. And what's really scary is that I don't. I don't think that people don't believe women. I think it's more that they don't care anymore, which is almost even worse.

[Host]

Why do you think that is? Why do you think they don't care?

[Kaya Sicola]

Because maybe a lot of people are thinking. Maybe people are thinking that, you know, they deserved it. They put themselves in this situation. It's kind of the same thing that was on both trials, pushing the limit to say that it was consensual, that both parties wanted to participate in that. And, you know, I think that maybe people think that, you know, yeah, they put themselves in this situation, so, you know, it's their fault.

[Host]

That's actually so sad.

[Kaya Sicola]

That is worse. I think that.

[Host]

Don't believe 1000%.

[Kaya Sicola]

There has been so many, you know, big cases. Blake and Justin Baldoni and Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. And I think that, you know, it's. It's really bad if you put all cases in the same basket, you know, because Amber lost her case. Right. And it was, you know, a big setback. And I think that that also impacted the way people portray me, too.

[Host]

Other cases.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay. I mean, I. Alessandra. And I are always big on, like, you just believe the woman. So we're definitely. You just believe the woman. What do you have to say to people who criticize you for how long it took you to come forward or for any victim to come forward? Well, it couldn't have been that bad if she waited five years, or it couldn't have been bad if she didn't tell the police right away. Like, what do you have to say to those people?

[Kaya Sicola]

I dare you to say it to my face.

[Host]

Literally.

[Kaya Sicola]

I literally dare you to say it to my face. And I will respond that I wish nobody would be in a situation like this so they would have to understand on their own how long it takes to talk about things like this.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

And how long it takes to step forward and how brave it is to step forward and to talk about that. Yeah, it's really not in. In sexual assault trials, in rape trials, victims are almost on stand. I mean, they. It's almost like they have to protect themselves. It's an excruciating process.

[Host]

Well, I think what people fail to realize is that the burden of proof is on the victim. Right. Like, you have to prove that this person did it.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

And sometimes the cases get dismissed not because they don't. They didn't. It didn't happen, but for a lack of evidence that it happened. But just because there's a lack of evidence doesn't mean that it didn't happen at all. And that's where, you know, in sexual assault cases, I feel like there's a big miscommunication, I guess, or a misunderstanding. Just because there's a lack of evidence doesn't mean. So how do I prove that this happened to me 10 years ago?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

And you know what I mean?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

So the general public will be like, well, then it didn't happen if there's no proof. Well, how do you want me to prove this?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah. It's not like we're taking pictures and video right after sexual assault.

[Host]

What was the process of coming to terms with the fact that you were sexually assaulted? Was there ever a point where you were like, was I sexually assaulted? Like, it was more of a question.

[Kaya Sicola]

Of course.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

Your question itself. I mean, I questioned myself all the time, and I think that really, what, like, grounded me in a way of thinking that it wasn't my fault and that I was raped was when I started to experience domestic violence from my husband. And this itself was a very difficult process because at the beginning, we were married for seven years, and at the beginning, I didn't. I tried to, you know, I tried to make it less horrible than it was then I tried to explain him to, let's say, others that saw that he's angry or upset. Like, my mom saw it, my sister saw it, and my mom would tell me to leave him. And then at the beginning, I would just say that, oh, no, he's just stressed. It's just a back problem. It's whatever, whatever, whatever. But then, you know, when the physical violence started to come in, when I saw my dog being scared of him, I started to, you know, understand that I'm a victim of domestic violence. And that was really hard because I was. Was working as a psychologist. I was doing great. You know, my practice was growing. Then the TV and the press came in to my life as a part of, you know, my. My work, and admitting that, you know, I'm a victim of domestic violence was.

[Host]

It's hard, right?

[Kaya Sicola]

It was hard.

[Host]

But then you also were like, I also am a victim of sexual assault.

[Kaya Sicola]

I'm also a victim of sexual assault. And that these two things combined were almost like. It made me feel. Sometimes I overthink. But it made me think that. Feel and think that people might be maybe believing less in my story by knowing that also she was assaulted and she was raped and she was. You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

Like that all these things happened to her and. And, you know. And yet. They did. They did. Unfortunately, they did.

[Host]

I don't even know what to say because I also have thought that way about myself, you know, and then you feel like, am I damaged goods? Like I can't be whole because all these things happen to me.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that's hard, too. How would you try to change someone's mind? Or would you try to change their mind if someone said that to you? Like, oh, all of that happened to you?

[Kaya Sicola]

You mean that or how to help women?

[Host]

Both, I guess. True. Okay. How to help women.

[Kaya Sicola]

Well, if someone would say that to he right now, I would just say off. I don't care about your opinion, and I don't want to talk to you. That's it. You know, getting older brings the comfort of, you know, not arguing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

With certain people. If for you, one plus one is five. Have a good day.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'm not involved in that.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah. But to women, what I would say is definitely, please, please, please talk to a professional. Even, you know, what the. The suicide line. Right. Hotline, or something like this. Like, talk to someone. Because worst part of that was having bottles in my head. So I was fighting my own battles right in my head. Am I crazy? Is this okay? Can he do that? How can I get out of it? And I was fighting at the beginning. I was terrified when I was, when I made the decision to come here. My son was 2. And you know, suddenly I'm a single mom with a two year old. And two and three are tough years. Yeah, right. Yes. You're not sure if you're losing your mind or he's losing his mind or we are all losing our minds. But. But yeah. And so suddenly, like, I had to face everything that I was scared of.

[Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

Support myself, only count on myself because there's no one around. But, but for sure, it was the best decision of my life to come here, to participate in the trial and to be able to be an advocate right now for, for other women.

[Host]

Did your experience and your education in psychology help you with any of that? Like even just battling your own internal conflicts, did that help give you any insight from, for how to still push forward through all of this?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes, for sure. For sure. And you know, I mean, as a therapist, I learned a lot from my patients and just, I mean, psychotherapy, like if once you jump on a bike and you learn how to bike, you can, you know, you will never forget that. So all these years when I was working in office with patients, it just made me understand how, you know, people's mind navigate.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

So that for sure, really helps in life in general.

[Host]

For sure. And you, were you the youngest one through all of this? Like.

[Kaya Sicola]

I believe so, yes.

[Host]

What was that like?

[Kaya Sicola]

I hated the. Actually the articles that were titled like Youngest victim of Harvey Weinstein because it's, you know, it's nothing to be proud of. And you know, I wish that nothing like this would ever happen to a 16 year old girl or a 15 or a teenager or to any woman. But you know what I mean.

[Host]

Yeah, of course.

[Kaya Sicola]

But I guess that, you know, it just proved that. I mean, this is basically like being a pedophile.

[Host]

Yeah. So. And if it happened to you, I mean, how many other girls could it have happened to that haven't, you know, come forward, especially if they're young.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, it took a lot of courage for you to come forward, so.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah. And. And talking about the age was not. It was definitely not something pleasurable.

[Co-Host]

Right, right.

[Host]

Did the court's team. The first trial. Mistrial.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah, the first trial, they reverse the verdict. Right.

[Host]

Why?

[Kaya Sicola]

Because they said that poor Harvey had an unfair trial because there were Molina witnesses. Molina witnesses are women that he can't be charged on their. On the crimes, probably because of statue of limitations or some other stuff, but they show pattern of behavior.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

And so there are, I think, three women that he was supposed to be charged on and he was charged on and three women that were Molina witnesses. So then the judges decided that because the Molina witnesses were there, he had an unfair trial because it portrayed him in a, you know, worse light than he might have been.

[Host]

But that was his pattern of behavior. So I feel like. So then you had to relive the trial again.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes.

[Host]

Can you walk us through your mental. Your mentality at that time?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, last year, when I heard that, you know, his verdict was overturned, it was horrible. It really felt like, what are we doing?

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

Bill Cosby's out. Jeffrey Epstein is dead.

[Host]

So everyone just gets away with it. They're getting a slap on the wrist.

[Kaya Sicola]

And now, you know, there were President said that he might pardon Diddy or that he's thinking about that.

[Host]

Oh, I didn't even hear that. Yeah, so when you hear things, I.

[Kaya Sicola]

Mean, he didn't say he will, but.

[Host]

Right, sure. But so when you hear about cases like the Diddy, you know, he didn't get charged for all the things that he should have, in my opinion, should have been charged for. So does that, like, re. Trigger you? Does it bring up past traumas for you?

[Kaya Sicola]

It actually makes me angry, and it makes me want to do something about that.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

Because, you know, one person can change the world, but if we gather and we have. We do some things together to make, you know, others understand that you cannot commit these crimes. Because that. That's actually what's frightening for me is that if people will see. If men will see that they are getting away with that, then there's less. Less fear of getting caught, and there's less fear of, you know, going to trial because they might think, okay, well, worse come to worse, I'm gonna spend, you know, a month in courtroom, and then I'll get out.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Kaya Sicola]

Like, we don't want to send that message.

[Host]

No. And you would think they would want to make a. An example out of somebody so that they don't want to do it. But they keep letting all these people off the hook, and that's so frustrating.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah, it really is.

[Host]

During the retrial, Harvey Weinstein was acquitted of your charges, Is that right?

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

Can you explain the circumstances around that and why it was. Why he was acquitted of that?

[Kaya Sicola]

I mean, from what we overheard from some jurors, it's because of My sister and the journal that she gave.

[Host]

But the journal was. Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously. An AA journal.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes.

[Host]

So that's alcohol. Alcoholics Anonymous. Is that right? So you struggled with alcohol.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yes.

[Host]

And your journal.

[Kaya Sicola]

So it was from 2014.

[Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

Or 13. I don't know. That's when I got sober. And so it was a journal that, you know, describes people that have, you know, hurt you and what was your part in it and what could be done differently and things like that. I told in front of the grand jury that I never shared anything about Harvey Weinstein up until 2017.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

So in the journal, I wrote some things about Harvey, but I didn't write about sexual assault because, first of all, the sponsor that I had was working in the film industry. And second of all, I was terrified of the thought of, you know, sharing this with anyone, especially on paper.

[Co-Host]

Right, right, right, of course.

[Kaya Sicola]

So there are two other men that were aggressive towards me, but, you know, it's basically. They were sexually aggressive, but nothing happened, and I never saw them again. So it was a completely different story. And there was not. There were not producers or actors or whatever. Not anyone famous.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

Just some people in my life. And that was really twisted on the stand. And I was asking, where are all my other journals? My. My diaries. Sorry, my diaries. In my diaries, which were only kept for me, I wrote about Harvey, and I weren't Not.

[Host]

They were not admitted in court.

[Kaya Sicola]

No. My sister just picked this one and gave this one.

[Host]

So could your team have brought in your other diaries or you didn't have access to them?

[Kaya Sicola]

I don't have access to them. They're in Poland.

[Host]

So it's a lack of the evidence because you didn't write about it. But it's not. I don't understand how they could use it simply because you didn't write in it.

[Kaya Sicola]

First of all, what was really horrible was that I don't know if you're familiar with aa, but AA or NA are, so it should never be brought in court. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Host]

Like, you wouldn't.

[Kaya Sicola]

Because there are names also of. Of other people, and they were read publicly out loud, and it was just. It was horrible.

[Host]

I think you. It's hard to, like, get your therapist notes, like, into court.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

From my understanding. So that should be the same. Like AA or NA should be completely private.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah, well, that was their angle. They tried to portray me as someone who was looking for fame and would do everything to get famous.

[Host]

Did you not have any Type of relationship with your sister from the point that she did this, or were you sort of talking because you didn't know?

[Kaya Sicola]

That's when our way started to really go. Yeah. Separate. And I have not spoken to her.

[Host]

Do you guys have any other siblings?

[Kaya Sicola]

No.

[Host]

Just you two.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which is even more hurtful, I feel.

[Kaya Sicola]

Yeah. I mean, no, but basically right now I. I have no desire to talk to her again.

[Host]

And I don't think you can be blamed for that at all. This obviously opens a bigger conversation surrounding men with power. So what do you think can be changed in the modeling industry, the acting industry, and. And how much power we give to these men?

[Kaya Sicola]

Well, first of all, right now I understand that, but if you want to be in a. Which is tricky for. For show business because a lot of, you know, work relationships are connected with friendships and, you know, that's how people operate. But especially if you're new in the business and you're starting to. You're trying to get your foot in the door and trying to break through. Only professional contacts, really. Like, if I could say this to my younger self, I would want to. Only professional contacts, only meetings in agencies when you want to do reading or whatever else. And then I really would like to see more psychologists working with modeling agencies and acting agencies, I guess. Yeah. Because, I mean, it's more understandable, I guess, for people that. For acting. Most of actors have psychologists or psychotherapists. Right. And they work with them because it's the inner world that you have to access in order to be able to perform.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

But. But for models, it's not seen that way. Right. And it should be, because models are, you know, it's a hard. It's a hard work. Sometimes you have two jobs in a day. You go from one place to another during fashion weeks, you know, tons of fashion shoots, then there's so much rejection also. And girls have to deal with it. Girls and boys have to deal with it, have to process it. So I. I think that definitely psychologists and. And really like sending men with power a message that you won't get away with it. The silver lining is that, is that both Harvey or Diddy doesn't matter. Well, of course it matters if they are in jail or not, but their.

[Host]

Careers are hopefully done.

[Kaya Sicola]

Hopefully done.

[Host]

Hopefully. I mean, at least for Harvey. I don't know about Diddy, though. I think there are people who are.

[Kaya Sicola]

I know I was a little. I was a bit skeptical. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Kaya Sicola]

And because unfortunately, Cassie. I mean, people were worse to Cassie than to him. Like Talking about her in Internet writing about her. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

And that's scary because we saw all of that play out on video.

[Kaya Sicola]

Oh my God.

[Host]

What do you have to say to any victims that are facing, you know, an internal conflict of whether to come forward or not? Like, what advice could you give on how to come forward about sexual assault?

[Kaya Sicola]

I would say that sometimes it's easier to talk to a stranger being, for example, a counselor or, or someone like, like on a hotline at first to try to ease in the situation of accepting that this happened.

[Host]

Okay.

[Kaya Sicola]

And it's not my fault this happened and it's not my fault. And right now I need help. And the reason why I'm saying that is that sometimes when we talk to a stranger, being like a counselor that you just met or, you know, it's easier to share your story because there won't be any follow up or there might be, but you know, you can always back off and be like, okay, I shared it. I don't feel good about this. But starting to open up is the most important thing. Definitely. And if your family seems, you know, not right for that, then yeah, then talk to someone else. Talk to a stranger. That's good advice. I received some messages from, from women that are, you know, battling with their own traumas.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Kaya Sicola]

And, and yeah, I think that it's, it's, it's easier and it's really relieving to share it with someone. Right now. I am back in film industry because I have a production, film production company and just produced my first big film with John O. Howard King and Daniel Beckerman producing it. I'm a very resilient person and I hope that this also can send a message that if you have dreams, you should never give up on them. And sometimes, you know, life puts us through reroutes and that's okay. That's okay. Because also this is not a competition or this is not a race where we have to be the fastest or the strongest. We just have to follow our road direction and listen to the intuition. And I think that, that, I think that's pretty good advice. That's what I would, that's what I would tell my son. And yeah, just, you know, I could be bitter or angry, but, but I'm not. You know, I still believe in kindness of people. I still believe in love between people and in good energy. And I think that's also important.

[Host]

Well, we appreciate you sharing your story on Barely Famous podcast.

[Kaya Sicola]

Thank you so much.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Hayden Cohen]

Hi guys. My name is Hayden and a lot of you have been asking me to start a podcast. Okay, I'm totally kidding. Nobody asked me to start a podcast. The world did. Absolutely not need another podcast. But I wanted to because there's no place on the Internet where I can yap for 30 to 40, 45 minutes straight with my best friends, you guys, and just shoot the shit. Talk about all of my favorite things like social media, pop culture, reality tv, influencers. We all know I love a good influencer and that's what you can expect from my new podcast. A lot of you have been asking. This is a space for some real conversations with some of my favorite creators, reality stars, maybe even a celebrity or two if they answer my dm. This is all about the world behind the curtain that I really want to share with you guys. Allow me to ask the questions that you've been dying to know the answers to. And allow me to tell my guests that a lot of you have been asking. You guys can listen to, follow rate and review. A lot of you have been asking with me, Hayden Cohen, wherever you get podcasts.

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[Host]

This is what I do.

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Fast food, Beverly Hills Cop, the Girl with a Dragon Tattoo, and Julian Julia.

[Kaya Sicola]

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