The Favorite(s) With Layne Fargo

Summary

Barely Famous – “The Favorite(s) With Layne Fargo”

Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Layne Fargo (Author)
Release Date: December 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Barely Famous, host Kail Lowry engages in a lively, candid, and insightful conversation with novelist Layne Fargo, best known for her novel The Favorite(s). Their discussion weaves through the creative process of writing problematic women, the allure of toxic characters, navigating the world of contemporary publishing, and the impact of unlikable female heroines on readers and culture. Layne delves into inspirations behind her work (including real-life figure skating drama and classic literature), reflects on her writing journey, and unpacks the complexities of female ambition and friendship. The episode is packed with vulnerable moments and witty banter, shining a spotlight on women who break the rulebook—both on the page and in life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Audiobook Experience and Crafting The Favorite(s)

• Full-Cast Audiobook & Innovative Storytelling

  • Kail praises the full-cast audiobook format, calling it “so well done,” and shares her obsession with Lane’s work. (00:33)
  • Layne reveals the structure was inspired by “trashy sports documentaries,” especially those on Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan, and aimed to capture the dramatic, gossipy energy in a way reminiscent of Wuthering Heights’ secondary perspective narration. (01:58)
    • Notable quote:
      “My love of trashy sports documentaries...it’s such a fun format because you get to hear from all these different people, and it's a little irreverent and dramatic.” – Lane Fargo (01:58)
  • The setting spans from 2000 to 2014, intentionally before social media’s dominance, to showcase an era when celebrities couldn’t control their narratives, especially as women. (02:51–03:30)
    • “It was just a weird time to be famous, especially as a woman.” – Lane Fargo (02:51)

• Casting Johnny Weir

  • Layne championed figure skater Johnny Weir to voice Ellis Dean in the audiobook, initially thinking it was “a completely delusional idea.” He ended up accepting and did “such an incredible job.” (04:08–04:47)

2. Inspiration, Character Dynamics & Themes

• From “Failed Projects” to The Favorite(s)

  • The book emerged from two shelved stories (about ice dancers and a gothic romance), combined after a rereading of Wuthering Heights inspired a reimagining set within competitive skating. (01:05–01:23)

• Ambition, Jealousy, and Female Friendship

  • The frenemy dynamic between main characters Bella and Kat is rooted in Layne’s own experiences with other writers—highlighting how jealousy and admiration can coexist among ambitious women. (05:58–07:26)
    • “To be able to hold both of those things at the same time, where it's like, I love you, I'm happy for you, I want you to succeed. But I'm also so jealous of you right now.” – Lane Fargo (05:58)
  • Kail relates, describing how complex emotion plays out among her own peer group in reality TV. (06:53)

• Relatable Toxicity

  • The book’s characters embody traits that most women, and particularly creatives, experience but rarely see represented authentically.
    • “You don’t have to be a figure skater to relate to that.” – Kail Lowry (07:54)

3. Writing Process & Backstory

• On Rejection and Persistence

  • Layne shares the difficult path to publication: querying agents, “99+ rejections,” and learning through personalized feedback. She thanks the agent who told her earlier work felt inauthentic, as it pushed her to write more authentically. (12:53–14:05)

    • “It hurt so much because she was absolutely right...So I kind of took that to heart and tried to write things that were more authentic to me.” – Lane Fargo (13:03)

  • Fun anecdote: Lane made a sticker chart for every rejection, making the process “weirdly comforting.” (14:26)

• The Role of Theater & Women’s Studies
  • Her women's studies background inspires her anti-patriarchal themes; her theater experience helps craft distinctive voices—especially important for dialogue-driven sections. (15:48–16:39)
  • “It was more like writing a play.” (16:00)

4. Unlikable Female Characters & The Villainess

• Writing and Relating to ‘Unlikable’ Women

  • Layne loves to write "toxic" or "unlikable" women, unapologetic in their ambition and messiness.
    • “Absolutely. Yeah, it’s a theme in my books. It’s a theme in my life.” – Layne Fargo (24:30)
  • Layne also hosted a podcast on the topic:
    • “It’s basically impossible to write a female character that is universally beloved or even liked...You can’t win.” (25:14)
  • Embracing being disliked as both inevitable and freeing:
    • “The freedom comes in embracing it and just being realistic about, not everyone’s going to like me.” (26:12)

• Is There Always a Villain?

  • Lane resists clear-cut villains in The Favorite(s), preferring characters who are flawed but understandable. In her other books (Temper, They Never Learn), the “villain” is often the patriarchy. (35:18–36:17)
    • “I did not want to have a clear villain—I wanted everyone to...just, you know, sometimes make choices we might not agree with...” – Lane Fargo (35:51)

5. Industry Realities & Community

• Publishing Nerves & Support Systems

  • Layne admits to insomnia and panic attacks before her first book launch and discusses the importance of critique groups and “trusted group chats”—for sharing “thoughts that shouldn’t be on the Internet.” (17:55, 19:13)
    • “My big recommendation to all authors: have a trusted group chat.” – Lane Fargo (19:13)

• No Competition Among Women Writers

  • Rather than seeing similar books as competition, she urges mutual support:
    • “I try to think of other authors as colleagues, not competition.” (21:51)
  • The idea that readers often want more of what they like, not less:
    • “It’s not like they read one and they’re done…it’s a virtuous cycle.” (21:51)

6. Cultural Impact, Gender, & Authenticity

• Women’s Stories & Societal Expectations

  • The conversation turns to double standards for ambitious women, the costs of “likability,” and the power of being unapologetic.
    • “What does it actually cost to be the good girl that everyone likes?” – Kail Lowry (25:52)
  • On not apologizing for ambition or selfishness:
    • “Just being selfish in general. I think to be an artist, you have to be a little selfish.” – Lane Fargo (32:52)

• On Authenticity vs. Likability

  • Authenticity inevitably alienates some, but attracts the “right” people—fans or friends who really get you.
    • “It attracts the right people…and repels the people who...are not a good fit.” – Lane Fargo (31:48)

7. Real-Life Inspirations: Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan, & Scandal

• Layne discusses the infamous figure skating “knee-bashing” scandal between Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan as a major influence, explaining the details and cultural biases in their subsequent treatment. (38:30–42:03)
  • “That scandal in the 90's made skating so popular...more people watched it than the Super Bowl that year.” – Lane Fargo (42:47)

8. TV/Movie Adaptations and Cultural Trends

• The Favorite(s) was optioned for both TV and film adaptations (though nothing set yet). Layne is passionate about seeing her story brought to life on screen. (42:08–42:39)
• The general public’s appetite for “women breaking the rules”—because the rules are (typically) patriarchal and made to be broken. (43:40)
  • “I mean, like, rules were mostly made by...old white men.” – Lane Fargo (43:44)

9. BookTok, Reading Culture, and the Future

• BookTok’s power in reviving backlist titles and making reading trendy is celebrated. Layne credits BookTok for giving They Never Learn a sales bump years after release. (47:41–49:02)
  • “What I love about BookTok is it’s made reading cool…it’s almost like a lifestyle.” – Lane Fargo (48:08)
• Discussion of how reading as a family and community can shape values, empathy, and creativity, especially for boys. (49:34–50:29)

10. Rapid Fire: Revenge or Reasonable?

A playful segment where Kail presents scenarios à la “revenge or justice,” and Lane weighs in with her signature dark humor and moral compass. (51:28–53:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Inspiration:
  “I wanted that aspect of kind of a chorus of people talking about them, like, gossiping, essentially.” – Lane Fargo (01:58)
• On Ambition & Female Friendship:
  “There's gonna be jealousy, there's gonna be, like, negative feelings. And in order to stay friends, I think you have to be able to hold both of those things...” (05:58)
• On ‘Unlikable’ Women:
  “It’s basically impossible to write a female character that is universally beloved or even liked, because...you can’t win.” (25:14)
• On Approaching Reviews:
  “If someone’s like, I hated this book. The female main character was so unlikable...One star. Then, like, someone who wants to read a book like that is like, that book is for me, actually.” (44:53)
• On Not Apologizing:
  “Just being selfish in general. Like, I think to be an artist, you have to be a little selfish...So not apologizing for that at all has been a big thing.” (32:52)
• On the Villain Archetype:
  “In the favorites, I did not want to have a clear villain...” (35:51)
• On BookTok:
  “It’s been so cool to see on BookTok how readers have discovered these books…made them these huge hits.” (48:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Audiobook/Format Inspiration: 01:05–02:51
• Johnny Weir Voicing Ellis Dean: 04:08–04:47
• Timeline & Multiple Olympic Cycles: 05:17–05:53
• Female Friendship/Jealousy Dynamic: 05:58–07:54
• Rejection & Early Career: 12:53–14:44
• Influence of Theater/Women’s Studies: 15:48–16:39
• Unlikable Female Characters: 24:20–26:43
• Villainy & Ethics: 35:18–38:01
• Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan Scandal: 38:30–42:03
• Adaptation to TV/Movie: 42:08–42:39
• On BookTok’s Influence: 47:41–49:02
• Rapid Fire: Revenge or Reasonable: 51:28–53:59

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Conclusion

This episode is a treasure trove for fans of true-to-life female characters, dark academia, and the messy realities of writing and being a woman with ambition. Layne Fargo and Kail Lowry pull back the curtain on the chaos of literary fame, the nuances of female rivalry and solidarity, and the joy in breaking society’s rules—whether on the ice, on the page, or in their own lives.

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Find Layne Fargo's books at indie bookstores, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and more. Follow her at @lane.fargo on Instagram and visit LaneFargo.com for updates.

Transcript

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain K, and you're listening to Barely Famous.

All right, Lane Fargo, thank you for joining me on Barely Famous podcast.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Me, too. So I actually just listened to the favorites audio.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Oh, amazing.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay. Yes. And so I was so super excited when you agreed to do this, because I was like, I have never listened to an audio. An audio book. That was so well done. And I love audiobooks. I always have three. Three books going at the same time. One audio, one Kindle, one physical copy. If. If other books are not done on audio, like the favorites, I don't want any parts. Full cast. Loved it so much. And what insp. To do the favorites?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Well, it kind of came out of two failed projects, actually. I was working on a book about ice dancers, but it wasn't the favorites. It was more of a, like, thriller, murder mystery kind of thing. And then I was working on a gothic romance, and they were both terrible. And I kept going back and forth between that.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And then I reread Wuthering Heights to try to get inspiration for the gothic book and decided to make a Wuthering Heights retelling about ice dancers. And that's what became this book. But it was sort of like a long, winding road. Lots of existential crises and, like, failed avenues in there. But it worked out in the end.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I. It was fantastic. And I have not stopped recommending it because I'm so obsessed with it. The favorite specifically includes multiple perspectives and interview transcripts, which I thought was an incredible element to the audiobook. What inspired you to have, like, the different elements in the book?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

My love of trashy sports documentaries, especially ones about Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. I watched a lot of those.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And I just think it's such a fun format because you get to hear from all these different people, and it's a little, like, irreverent and dramatic. And also, in the original Wuthering Heights, it's told by sort of secondary characters about the main characters. So I wanted that aspect of kind of a chorus of people talking about them, like, gossiping, essentially.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, truly, it was giving me Perez Hilton vibes when I was listening to it. And it was so interesting, too, because I'm like, that was. You know, when I got onto social media, Perez Hilton was just making, like, his rise to, we'll say, stardom or whatever. And so he has become, like, people recognize his voice and know him as soon as you and sort of like Ellis Dean in the book. That's the vibes that I was getting.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, that was absolutely one of my inspirations. And I chose to set the book at the time I did. Like, it takes place between, like, the year 2000 and 2014, because I wanted to cover that period of time where there was the celebrity gossip, tabloid culture, but before social media became such a big thing where people could, like, put out their own narrative and, like, tell their own story. So they were sort of like, it was just a weird time to be famous, especially as a woman. Like, I was thinking about Britney Spears shaving her head and all that stuff around that time where it was like, people are commenting on her, but she doesn't really have the means to speak for herself because where would people go.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

To, like, hear what she has to say at that time?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, it's all mediated through publicists and things like that. So, yeah, I just thought it was, like, an interesting. Interesting time to set it. And then I didn't have to deal with, like, Twitter and Instagram and Twitter.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Twitter is a very toxic place. So I try to stay off of Twitter as much as possible. But in your. It does temper. And they never learned. Do they have audiobooks as well?

[Narrator or additional commentator (providing factual info)]

Yes.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And do they have full cast?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

No, those two. They're both two narrators, so it's like two different voices.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, okay. I mean, to me, that's still same vibe. If there's no, like, extra element with, like, the tabloid stuff, do you get to pick who does your narrating?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, actually, they usually send you kind of a short list of narrators with samples to listen to, and then you can rank your favorites. So that's what I did. Except for in the favorites. Ellis Dean was the one exception to that because Johnny Weir, the figure skater turned commentator, voices Ellis on the audiobook. And that was, like, my idea, but just a completely delusional idea I didn't think would go anywhere.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

But it did.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

But it did. They were kind of like, yeah, we'll ask him. Probably say no. And I was like, yeah, totally. Just ask him. It's so cool that he's even heard of the book now. And, like, I'll just be satisfied with that. And then he did it. And he did such an incredible job. Funny.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I love that. So have you built a relationship with him? No.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

He did DM me on Instagram once, and I was eating breakfast and I was like, drop my phone.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, but that's cool, though, that he has read the book.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, I'm going to some skating competitions later this year, and my friend I'm going with is like, you need to just take a copy of the book and hold it up and scream, ellis Dean. Until pays attention to you. And I'm like, or I'll get arrested.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I mean, it would be worth it. Maybe you could write a memoir about it.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

The setting spans from Cat's childhood through training to the fallout of the final skate, obviously. How did you decide on the timeline? I know that you touched on that just now from. You said 2000 to 2014. Is that right? Is that sort of. You kind of touched on it already. Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And I knew that if I'm writing about Olympic skaters, that's sort of built in, you know, it's every four years. So I knew I had a certain amount of time. Like, if I wasn't going to have them go to the Olympics the first time they could and succeed, like, if I wanted them to fail a few times or have various drama go on, that it was going to have to cover a couple Olympic cycles. So that gave me something to work with.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And what inspired the frenemy relationship between Bella and Kat?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It was just something I wanted to read, to be honest. And I. I always feel like this sounds bad when I say it, but I based it a little bit on my own relationships with other writers. Like, we're not as. As toxic and traumatic as these two, for sure, but there is that element of, like, if you're an ambitious woman and you're friends with other ambitious women in your field, there's gonna be jealousy, there's gonna be, like, negative feelings. And in order to stay friends, I think you have to be able to hold both of those things at the same time, where it's like, I love you. I'm happy for you. I want you to succeed. But I'm also so jealous of you right now. And, like, to be able to be honest about that.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

So that's what I wanted to write with Kat and Bella, where it's. Instead of them being just, like, pure frenemies, like, trying to sabotage each other all the time or super supportive besties, it's like something in the middle that really better represented, like, my own complex relationships with other women.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I have never been able to put that into words. I have felt that way in my life, especially from being on TV at 16 till now there. I see other girls from the show doing. Doing certain things, and I don't. I don't hate them for it. I'm just like. But how, Like, Why not me Kind of deal. But I'm simultaneous. Like, it's coexisting. My happiness for them and my jealousy is coexisting. And I've never been able to put that into words. Why did she get to do this? But I'm over here just as ambitious, work just as hard, if not harder. And so that's so interesting that you said that.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I think it too. It's like a guide to what you want.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Right.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Like, if you see someone else get something and you're really, really jealous, it's like, okay, I either want that exact thing, or there's, like, something about it that is attracting me. And so it can be like a. Like a compass pointing you in the right direction, too, if you don't let it eat you alive.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Right. More for me. I have never felt like. Like a jealous. I want to hurt them or, like, sabotage them. More as an inspiration jealousy. Like, okay, well, if they can do it, so can I. But how the hell do I get there now?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yep.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And so you don't have to be a figure skater to relate to that and to resonate with that. And I really love that. And I can appreciate that. Out of all your books that are published or unpublished, who was your favorite character to write?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Oh.

Probably Kira. In my first book, Temper, she was so. Because, as I mentioned, she was the main character of my first book that I ever wrote that ended up not going anywhere. And it was like I just couldn't let her go. Like, of all of my characters, she came to me the most fully formed, where I just heard her voice in my head. And she's really not that much like me. Like, I feel like Scarlet and Cat. Some of the other characters I've written, I see more of myself in them, but Kira feels like she exists outside of me somehow. Like, she was just in my brain. And I miss her still.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, actually, I talked to another author that sort of had a similar.

Alice Feeney loved Daisy Darker.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

She said that was like her baby.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And so that's so interesting. Like, you just have. You develop relationships with these characters. My Rebecca over here and I were talking on the way here, and she.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

Was talking about how she'll, like, cry.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

At shows because she becomes so attached to characters. And I said that's how I feel about characters in the. In books that I read. Like, you just speak up. I can't imagine, as an. As an author, like, what that dynamic would be.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's hard to let them go sometimes.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I bet, because then you're like, do you want to carry that character over into another story and you can't because you've already used them. Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

You kind of get to that point where like, I can't. I love Kira so much, but where I left her at the end of Temper. I don't really think I could write anything else. Like, I don't know what her. The next phase of her story would be.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, that's kind of like a bittersweet feeling.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah. Do you have any self insert type.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Of characters in the favorites? It's definitely Inez Acton, who's one of the documentary characters. Because she is. She's just saying like what I would say is a snarky, extremely online bisexual like, about these tragically heterosexual characters and their life choices. Like, everything that I wanted to say, I put in Inez's lines.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I love that so much.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

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[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

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[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

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[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Will be doing this year, or maybe.

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[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

You're a career writer. Did you always want to be a writer?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

When I was little, I always wrote. I wrote little stories and stuff and plays, but I never thought it would be a viable career. So it was like, I did want it, but I didn't think it was possible. And then it was in my late 20s. It was like Saturn return age if you're into astrology.

That time I did National Novel Writing Month, and that kind of gave me the bug to do it more seriously. But it still took me. I had a book I wrote for that that didn't end up getting picked up at. Queried a bunch of agents and was rejected a bunch of times. And that classic story. And then I finally kind of figured it out. It was just like. Like, I don't have an MFA or anything. I'm not, like, trained as a writer. So it was just a lot of trial and error and figuring it out. Until now I have three books out.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So what inspired you to keep going after you inquire? You. What did you say you queried? Yeah, you queried agents. And then it didn't get picked up. So what made you want to keep going?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I knew it was like, I had a lot to learn and that the book wasn't really where it should be yet. And I did get a few rejections from agents where they were more like personalized rejections, which, like, it sounds weird to be like, that gave me hope, but it did. It was like, okay, they see something in my work. Like, they took the time to write this to me. I had one agent for that first book. She wrote me this really lovely rejection, and in it, she said that she felt like there was something inauthentic about the characters and the world of the book. And I, like, it hurt real bad at first. I was like, oh, my God, ouch. But then I realized it hurt so much because she was absolutely right. Like, I was writing something. It was a little more. That first book was a little more, like, dystopian. It was like trying to be on trend or something. I don't know. And, yeah, so I kind of like Took that to heart and tried to write things that were more authentic to me going forward. And so I really thank her for that rejection, even though it stung. Like it really set me on the right course.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I mean, it doesn't sound weird to me to get some constructive criticism back because then, you know, sort of what to do moving forward and what agents are looking for without compromising, sort of your being true to yourself.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So I think that's. That's amazing. But the first book that we're talking about, was that the one that was rejected like a hundred times?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yes, that's the one that I got that rejection on. And 99 plus more. I would keep track of them. I made this little. I've always been very motivated by, like, stickers. Even since I was little kids, I made myself sticker chart. And every time I would get a rejection, I would put a sticker on the chart to keep track of them. And it was like, weirdly comforting.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay, but would you ever consider, like, maybe reworking it and then self publishing it?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Not that. No, I don't think so. I don't know. I kind of want to use it in like. Well, well, first of all, the character from that main character ended up being the main character in my debut, Temper. I kind of like took her out of that and put her in another book. And then there are some things about the whole dystopian setup. It was like, set in like War Torn Chicago, which is a little real to me right now.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Because you live in Chicago. I do.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And there's some stuff going down. So I. Yeah, I don't know. I could see incorporating that stuff into another story or even like, I had a book idea a while ago that didn't go anywhere, but it was like using the plot of that book as like, within the new novel. It was like a movie being made that was based on that. So I feel like it will come in again someday, but I don't think I would put it out as is.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, but that's so cool, though. And you took a character from one story and brought it. Brought her. Yeah. Was it a her into the next story? That's awesome.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And she made so much more sense in the new story. I was like, okay, you never wanted to be in this other plot. Like you were waiting for this.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did your background in theater and women's studies influence how you write in general? I'm not going to say, you know, specifically to the favorites, but just write your novels. Mm.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I mean, the women's Studies thing. Basically just that I hate the patriarchy, and that's, like, in all my books. So that's not a mystery. The theater background. So I was never an actor. I was more, like, backstage. I did playwriting and, like, histor research and things like that. And for the favorites especially, it was very helpful in writing the documentary portions, which are mostly dialogue. It was more like writing a play. So writing these characters and trying to make their voices distinct, even when it's just words on a page. I mean, obviously you listen to the audiobook and the actors, then bring it to life and bring, like, even more to it. But I was really trying to make it so, like, even if you're just looking at the words on the page, you could tell who was speaking, even if you didn't see their names.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

It was giving. When I. I. Daisy Jones. And the six is like that. So I. I actually love that. But how long did it take you to write each of your books?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

That's a hard question. Let's see. Because there's so many different. It's like. Like, I would write it and then there's, like, editing. And my first book, probably like a year, year and a half. Second book was shorter because I sold it on Proposal, so I, like, owed it to my publisher. Much faster. Yeah. And then the favorites, once I figured out what I was actually writing about a year and a half. But there was like, another year and a half to two years before that of being confused and trying different things and existential crisis. I'm trying to, like, not have to do that every time. Although I kind of have done it again, actually.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, no.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Oh.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

But. So do you think that it's getting easier? Would you say, over time or not? It's not getting any easier. It's just equally as hard.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's just equally as hard. It's. I think it just. It. Because it does take me quite a while to write a book. It's like, I want to make sure I'm writing the right book.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I question it a lot.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And I'm really jealous of the people who can just like, turn out a whole draft really quickly and then. Yeah, I have to spend a lot of time questioning myself and overthinking.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

What does it feel like for you when you are about to publish your work? Like, do you get that, like, nerves? Are you excited? Are you. You don't look at any anything? Like, any. I look at everything. Yeah, I would. I feel like I would be the same way. Like, did it chart? Did I. I don't know, like, how.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Many times can I Google myself in one day?

My first book, I had, like, insomnia for weeks and was just a mess of panic attacks and everything. Now I've been to a lot of therapy and I'm medicated, so I'm much more, like, relatable. Regulated about it.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Relatable.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's still. It's very exciting, but also, like, it's like, even your closest friends, like, no one really cares or understands the same way. Like, your writer friends kind of get it because they go through the same thing. But it's almost. It feels like, you know, like a wedding or a baby shower, like some, like, big life event. But it's not recognized the same way the rest of the world. So it's sort of. It's strange. It's like a weird experience.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

What is the support like from other authors, if there is, like, a support there? Do you have relationships with other authors? Do you not really communicate with them? What does that look like?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I have a lot of great friends who are other authors. There's, like, plenty who are more like Instagram acquaintances. And we, like, comment on each other's posts and boost each other's books and do events together and things like that. And then I have a group chat of close friends who are also my critique partners who will, like, read things in progress. And that's where, like, all my kind of inside thoughts go. Like, the things that shouldn't be on the Internet. That's my big recommendation to all authors is, like, have a trusted group chat. Because otherwise you're going to want to say things on the Internet that you shouldn't say it to the group chat. And the magic of the group chat is mutually assured destruction.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

So they can't, like, say what? They can't release the screenshots of what you said without, like, retaliating.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Is it ever weird, though, if you have. We'll say you're releasing a book and then you find out maybe through just the grape vine, that another author is releasing a similar. A book in the same genre. Does that ever get weird? Or do you kind of try to boost each other or, like, how does that work? Because for me, I'm buying every book. It doesn't matter if two books are coming out at the same time. But obviously we know that in today's economy, not everyone can do that. So is there ever. Does it ever get weird?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It hasn't for me. I've experienced that mostly with. They never learn because there have been a ton of books in the last. Well, since 2016, let's say everyone can do the math on that. Like, of women writing these really angry books about the patriarchy and like women killing bad men. And like we've all been inspired by world events and whatever else. So I love that it's become almost like a little micro trend. And I try to like find those other books that are similar to. They never learn and read them and post about them because I'm like, yeah, if someone read my book, they're gonna love this too. And it's just sort of a virtuous cycle. The favorites. There aren't a lot of other books like it. Like a lot of the figure skating books that are out there are more straightforward romance, which is like great. I really enjoy those books too. But I would love for there to be more books like the Favorites and then I would definitely befriend those authors and boost them.

[Narrator or additional commentator (providing factual info)]

I think.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I can't think of another book that had. Had toxic, toxic like characters like that. I also have never heard an Audi book like that. So I wish that everybody wrote books like that truly. Because sometimes you get these audio books that are. It's like just monotone the entire time. Every character is the same voice. And I'm like, I don't know about that.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

The forecast ones are very cool. Yeah. In general, I would say I try to think of other authors. They're like colleagues, not competition. And as you say, it's. If you read a book you like, you want to read like 10 more books like that. So it's not like they read one another done. It's. It's. We can all help each other.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I always say, like, I want everyone at the top. You don't have to sit at my table, but I want to see you up there too. There have definitely been times where I've read a book and I'm like, I want to read more like this. Like tag a book that I should read. And I haven't really had a whole lot of success. I will say like the Nightingale, if you liked that one, read the Storyteller. Completely different author, but same sort of category. I. I cannot think of one like the favorites so that one might be on its own, which is a good thing. Kind of.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

So only thing I can think of that is like a completely like spot on, accurate comp for the favorites is a movie which is Challengers.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Like tennis threesome movie. When I saw that, it was after I'd finished the Favorites but before it had come out.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I was so obsessed with it. And I was like, I just want to like watch or read like a million more things like this. But the only one I can think of is the book I wrote, which I'm sick of right now because I just got done editing it.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

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[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

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And you also write toxic.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

If you will, female characters, but they're like unlikable and then you love them, Right? Like I fell in love with all the toxicity in the favorites. Is that sort of like a theme in all of your books?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Absolutely. Yeah, it's a theme in my books. It's a theme in my life. Same.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I just. I. So I ordered. They never learn. And unfortunately I forgot to bring it with me. But I. I'm sort of hoping for the same sort of toxicity.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Oh, if I'm being even more so in that one. Okay, I think that's probably my. I mean, she's a. Well, well, she's a murderer. But like, has she ever done anything wrong in her life? I don't know. You be the judge.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I love that because that feels very much like me. But would you consider yourself to be an unlikable female character?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, totally.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Really?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Well, I just think. Okay, so I actually used to have a podcast called Unlikable Female Characters for about four years.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

We can bring it back. Sign with the killer network. We can bring it back. Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It was not as fancy as this. It was just us, like, recording on our computers in, like, very various closets. Yeah, good sound. But it was like. What we kind of found through recording four years of episodes about unlikable female characters is that it's basically impossible to write a female character that is universally beloved or even liked, because it's like, if she's too nice, then she's a pushover, but if she's too mean, then she's a. And it's just like, you can't win. That's what I learned. So now I'm just like, I'm gonna write the kind of women that I. I aspire to be and want to read about, which are, like, ambitious, uncompromising.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Because what does it actually cost to be the good girl that everyone likes?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yes, exactly.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I don't know that I would want to be that person. Sometimes I do get in my own head about it. I'm like, I just want everyone to like me. But then I real. I remember who the I am, so. Exactly. Do you think being disliked is actually freedom? Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Well, I think it's just inevitable. It's like, it's gonna happen, so you may as well. I think the freedom comes in embracing it and just being realistic about, like, not everyone's gonna like me. And if I am trying to live my life to make everyone like me or writing in a way to make everyone like what I write, it's just not gonna.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

I don't know.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's not gonna be authentic. It's not gonna be very good. Probably. Like, as far as. As the writing, I. I always say if I tried to write a likable female character, I would hate her, and then I wouldn't be able to finish the book.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. So when you were writing the favorites, did you sort of have all of that in mind? And you were like, I want this to be as realistic as possible?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yes, I wanted it to be very realistic, and it's very dramatic. Obviously, there's a lot of drama in this book, but that is pretty realistic to the figure skating world. Like, it's a very over the top world. I always say they're like hyper competitive theater kids.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Like, it's just a lot. So pretty much everything that happens in the book is based on something that really happened. Not, like, all to the same couple. I Feel like that's where I'm stretching it a little bit. Like, it all happens to Kat and Heath, although they kind of bring it on themselves sometimes.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

How do you name your characters?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Well, in this case, it was really easy because it was based on Wuthering Heights, so it was all like. Like, at Katarina Kathy Shaw instead of Earn Shaw. So I had, like, something to go off of.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Sure.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

In my previous books, I've usually the first name is like, Vibes, and then the last name. I've done things like in Temper, my debut, all the last names were streets in Chicago.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, cool.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And then in. They never learn all the character names. The last names are buildings on, like, places I went to college or grad school.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

That's cool.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And then I named all the buildings on the campus in that book after my friends little Easter eggs in there.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

When I wrote a book, my first book in 2014, I was watching Pretty Little Liars, and I renamed. They were real people in my life, but I just changed their name for privacy reasons, and I picked character names from Pretty Little Liars. So that is so funny, but, like, something I would do. Do you think women who stop trying to please everyone get labeled as A or as or just honest? And I think it's interesting because any woman that is opinionated or maybe doesn't align with what everybody el doing does get labeled as, like, a. Or bossy or, you know, things like that. So how do. How do you feel about that, knowing that you write book pe. You write characters in your books that are like that?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I just embrace it at this point. I'm just like, yeah, Katarina is a. So am I. Like, deal with it.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I don't know.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I've just, like, made it part of my identity. Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

No, I kind of love that, though. And do you think that today in society that we're raising women who are speaking up more, or do you think that. That we're sort of still where we. Where we've always been with women not really speaking up?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I think women are speaking up more. I think we see the backlash to it, obviously, in so many ways, but I think that's hopefully like, the death throes of that kind of thinking. I mean, women are certainly raised now to be.

More ambitious and to just, like, want to be a full person instead of just being a wife, just being a mother, like, whatever it is, like, it's service to someone else.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Else. Sure.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's like, you can have all those things. You can have a happy marriage, you can have kids, like, whatever. It's your choice, but you are like a whole person, first and foremost. And I think in generations past, like, even my mother, my grandmother's generation, it was more like your life is supposed to be about your husband or about your children. And if you have any desires or ambitions, that's like just a little hobby you do on the side. And I'm like, absolutely not.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Aisha Curry just got in, was getting a ton of backlash for the interview that she just did where she was talking about how hard the transition was, realizing, okay, I'm essentially put my life on hold to marry this man. And, like, we all know that the opportunities that came with being married to Steph Curry. Right? But she's talking about she never really wanted to be a mom. And so now she's trying to find her happiness and the balance in marriage and motherhood and then also pursuing her career and her ambitions. And people have been ripping her to shreds. Oh, my gosh. And I'm just like, you can have all of it, but it's all about finding that balance. And I didn't really understand why everyone was. They were saying that, oh, oh, they're gonna get divorced and she's gonna try to get half. And I'm like, that's not what this is about. She's just simply saying that she wanted to live her life and be a full person, not just a mom or just a wife.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Exactly. But that's not what people hear. I feel like when women say things like that, people who are really bought into the more, like, traditional path, it's like they hear an attack on, like, their life choices and who they are. Where I think what feminism is about is for every woman to be able to choose for herself what she wants to do, even if it's is choosing the more traditional route. Like, that's valid too. But the point is to have the choice.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Absolutely, have the choice. Like, I. I don't care if someone wants to serve their husband and is submissive to. Submissive to their husband at all times. That doesn't have to do with me. It's like, as long as you have the choice, I think that's what it's. What it's really about. But do you think that likability and authenticity can coexist?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I think. I don't know. It's like, sometimes some people will like you, some people will hate you. I think if you are trying to be likable, if that' like, your goal, that's not going to be authentic in most situations. It wouldn't be for me anyway.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

That's so interesting. So if everyone is just authentically themselves, most people will not align and not like you.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Or you'll find the people who you do align with you, like, attract the people who are actually aligned with you. And like, I find that with my work, it's like, I certainly get those reviews where they're like, I hated this character. She's so selfish. She's whatever. But then I get the reviews where someone just really identified with Katarina or with Scarlet or with Kira era and they felt seen. And so it's like it attracts the right people as opposed to. And it kind of. It then it repels the people who are not like, a good fit for you and your work.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

For the favorite specifically, I feel like that's why I probably loved all the characters. And I've also found myself. I want to be liked.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

Right.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

But anytime I've done things where I'm like, oh, well, maybe more people will like me, I hate myself for it. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Even in content creation writing, just like anything, I'm like, this is not me, and I. I'm miserable. So I think that that's impressive to me that you sort of have that theme in all your books. I think that's great. What's something that you've stopped apologizing for as a woman?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Just being selfish in general. Like, I'm. I think to be an artist, you have to be a little selfish. It's like you need your time and your energy for your work.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And I don't have kids. I am married and have been married for quite some time, luckily, to a man who's super understanding of that and gives me that time alone.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

But it took a while for me to not feel bad about asking for that. Being like, I just need to be completely alone right now. Like, don't talk to me. He understands. But yeah, just like, not apologizing for that at all has been a big thing. And every once in a while that, like, cultural conditioning kicks in where I'm like, oh, no, I should be, you know, thinking about others more so. But you really have to, like, in order to. To focus on your work and, like, make it the best it can be. I think you need to have that. That selfish ambition sometimes.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Did he. Does he read your books before you put them out?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

The first one. He did. Lately he's been reading them when they're at the, like, advanced reader copy stage. So they're pretty much edited because otherwise it's just so Many versions.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And you're like, I guess I can't ask you to read this again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How many versions of books do you typically go through or is there not. It's not a one size fits all.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's definitely not a one size. So it's all. It depends if I'm on deadline or, like, kind of how much time I spent on it on my own. Like, the favorites, I didn't have an existing contract with the publisher, so I spent a lot of time working on it on my own. And then my literary agent read it, and then we sent it to editors with other books. It's, like, gone straight to the editor or gone through, like, several friends. And even, like, my first book my partner did read and give some feedback on. Really now he's so glad I have personal professionals to do that.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

He's like, I don't want to do this anymore. I have actually seen, like, I've read books, and obviously it's nobody's fault, but, like, where I've pointed out, like, their final copies, like, out for sale, and they have, like, mistakes in them. And I always. I never know if, like, an author would. Would appreciate me reaching out and telling them or if they would hate my guts for it. So I just haven't ever said anything.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

If you reach out before the paperback goes to print, it's helpful because we can make. We can make corrections.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Good to know. Because there was a book. I'm not going to say who it was because I love this author so much. Much, and I don't want to hurt her feelings, but I was reading it on a plane, and when I tell you the amount of mistakes in there, I was like, oh, I don't.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Would she.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Because we've talked and I don't. I don't want to, like, embarrass her or anything like that, but now that I know that, maybe I'll just send, like, a nice little email or whatever. But that's cool. Yeah.

What does being the villain mean to you? And is there a villain in any of your books? In Temper and, you know, the favorites and any of them.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

There's definitely a villain in Temper and in. They never learned. The villain is sort of like the.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Patriarchy as it is in real life. Yeah, as it is in real life.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And it's a man in Temper, too, who's sort of, like, emblematic of that. I don't know what mean being the villain means to me. I know in the favorites, I. I did not want to have a clear villain I wanted everyone to.

Just, you know, sometimes make choices that we might not agree with or might not think we're the best thing to do in the moment. But even like, Sheila Lynn, who's the coach, she, like, some people might consider her a villain. I. I don't. I think she, like, if you kind of understand where she's come from and how hard she's had to work and everything, like, I get where she is. She's a very Miranda Priestly kind of character.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay. I mean, I. I resonated with all the characters in the face favorites, I feel like, such as life. Right. Like, we all make choices that not everyone's going to align with, and you can still love that person, and you just. You have to have more empathy and understanding for who they are and how they got to that place. And I. I feel like it does take a little bit of self awareness as a person to. Maybe I'm only speaking for the favorites because that's the first one that I read, but. Or listened to, rather. I don't know. I feel like when you have a lot of self awareness, you look at people from a different lens because you're like, you're just gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. Most of.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah. Because everybody. I mean, unless they're just evil, which I think there are, like, a few people in the world that are evil.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

But for the most part, everyone is doing their best and, like, trying to make the right decision and not trying to hurt other people, for sure. And I think the characters in the favorites, there are certain things even where, like Bella, whose Cat's front of me, friend in front of me, like, there are certain things she does that readers ask me about a of lot lot. And I'm like, yeah, that was not a good thing to do. But I think she did have, like, in her mind, good intentions in a way. But it's just sort of twisted, like, considering how she was raised and how competitive she is. Like, the thing where she shares that article with Cat right before she's supposed to skate, like, people are like, oh, she was doing that to sabotage her.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Right.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

And I'm like, it kind of had that effect. But I think in Bella's mind, it was just, someone's gonna tell her this. It should be me. And then afterwards, she's almost questioning in her own mind of, like, was I trying to sabotage her subconsciously? I'm not sure. Like, that's interesting to me. It's like, we can do things that are harmful, but we didn't intend it that way. But then we still are, like, responsible for what?

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

For sure. That's sort of like the conversation surrounding karma is like, you always have to consider the intention, but regardless, I mean, you still have to pay the price, I guess, even if it. If it wasn't ill intended.

One of the girls on my team was telling me about some Olympic scandal where someone went to jail, like, years ago. I want to say it was ice skating, maybe, and they, like, slashed, like, bashed her knee in or something.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I'd never heard of that. What really, I was thinking about when she told me this. I was like, wait a minute. The favorites that I just listened to on audio, there was like a whole, like, scandal with, like. That's crazy.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, that's like the most famous one. That was 1984. I think I was too.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So that's probably why I had no idea what the heck she was talking about. Talking about?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, it's. There's a great movie called I, Tanya with Margot Robbie that's about Tanya Harding, the skater who was, like, accused in all of this. My theory is. So the. The actual crime was done by her idiot ex husband and some friends of his. And I think she didn't.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

What was the crime?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It was her big rival, Nancy Kerrigan. Like, they took a. I think it was like a crowbar, metal rod or something. And at practice at Nationals, like, like, ran up to her and smashed her knee. And she, like, there's really famous footage of her crying backstage, being like, why? Why me? Like, because it was like a month and a half before the Olympics or something, and she was expected to go and potentially win gold. She did end up, like, recovering in time for the Olympics. I'm kidding.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I'm gonna have to look this up.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It was very influential in this book. And the book is dedicated to her and two other skaters, to Tanya Harding. And.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Have they read it? Did you talk to them?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

No, I wish.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I mean, maybe after this interview, we'll send it to them and say, like, this is. But that's. I had no idea. So when I was. We were talking about, you know, doing this interview, and they were telling me this, and I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. And so I didn't really press further. I was like, I'll just ask Lane, because I don't know, but I had no idea about any of that.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I'm so excited to, like, bring this into your life. Like, it's such an incredible story, but.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Now I'm Gonna go down a rabbit hole for the remainder of this weekend and basically try to figure this out. I didn't. There was that big of a scandal. Yeah, please.

[Narrator or additional commentator (providing factual info)]

So Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan were involved in a scandal when Harding's ex husband, Jeff. Can't pronounce the last name. Sean Eckard arranged an attack on Kerrigan to prevent her from competing in the Olympics. After a man clubbed Kerrigan on the knee at the U.S. figure Skating Championships, Harding was accused of having prior knowledge, though she only pleaded guilty to hindering the prosecution by covering up the attack after. Afterwards. As a result of her plea, Harding was banned from competitive figure skating for life. And find Kerrigan, though injured, recovered and won the civil silver medal at the 1994 Winter Olympics, while Harding finished eight.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

The other context of this is that they were rivals for a really long time. And Nancy Kerrigan, they both kind of came from, like, poor, like, blue collar backgrounds, but Nancy Kerrigan was more able to present herself as this like, proper lady, kind of like ice princess type, which is what they want in figure skating, where Tanya was more rebellious. Like, she would skate to rock music and she was like, a little less refined, more athletic, though she could do like incredible jumps. But. So she had this reputation for being sort of like, quote unquote, white trash. And the judges didn't like her, the officials didn't like her. And so the lifetime ban, like that is such a harsh punishment for what happened when, like, it wasn't even really proven that she had anything to do with it. I think they were excited to have a, like, a reason to get rid of her. Honestly, Tanya.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And that was the one that got.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Banned, like, lace broke at the Olympics and she had to go plead for extra time with the judges. There's this famous image of her putting her skate up on the boards and like, crying.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I need to look this up.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, you're gonna go down such a rabbit hole. I'm so excited for you.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

The lore. Okay, so what if. If you got an opportunity for any of your books to have movie or TV adaptations? 1. What would be your. Your first pick of your own books?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Definitely the favorite.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I want to see them skate in real life so bad.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Well, would you have. Would you do that? Would you do a show or a movie?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's been optioned for. Well, actually, so it was optioned for a TV show, and then that didn't go anywhere, as most options don't go anywhere. And then now it's optioned for a film. And so, fingers crossed, My fingers, my.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Toes, everything is crossed. And I hope that with that, the lore of this other Olympic scandal, also more people learn about it, because I.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Had, again, like, that scandal in the 90s made skating so popular for a few years there, and particularly the Olympic final where both Tanya and Nancy were skating, more people watched it than the super bowl that year. Like, it was. People were watching it in, like, sports bars. It's the peak of popularity of figure.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Skating in the US but you know what? It's so interesting because when you really look at the dynamics of that, it's like nobody. People are always interested in the drama. If it's not drama, it doesn't sell. Yeah. And if somebody is not doing well, it really just takes off. You know what I mean? Like, people really resonate with pain and misery a little bit more than they do. Like, the happiness, the ice princess sort of vibes. Yeah. So, I mean, I hope that doesn't happen to anyone else, but maybe if they're having a hard time getting people to watch the next Olympics, maybe there needs to be a scandal. And that brings me to the next question. Why do we love watching women break the rules?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I don't know, but I sure do.

I mean, like, rules were mostly made by, like, old white men, so.

Not the.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Not the patriarchy again.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Of course, the patriarchy again.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

You had mentioned a few minutes ago that when readers reach out to you about, you know, certain things that characters do. Do you read the reviews on your book?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Books? I do. I haven't been as much. Okay. So there always comes a point where you just hit the saturation point, and they're basically all saying the same thing. Like, you've seen, like, across the spectrum, it's like, people who love it, the people who hate it, but they have kind of similar reasons. So then you get bored and stop reading them. That's my experience. But for a while, yeah, I. I am a monster who reads my reviews. I kind of am amused by some of the really angry ones, actually. Like, every once in a while, I'll find one that actually hurts. But usually I'm just. It's almost like. I think sometimes it's a. It's almost like an advertisement for your book. Because if someone's like, I hated this book. The female main character was so unlikable. It was so toxic. There was so much drama. One star. Then, like, someone who wants to read a book like that is like, that.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Book is for me, actually. So I had bought. Did you partner with the book of the month at all?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yes, this one was a book of the month.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So that's how I found it.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

But I put it at the top of my list because one of my girlfriends had recommended it. And then another girlfriend came over and she was like, you have to listen to it. And so I literally went into it blindly. I did not even realize it was a figure, figure skater on the COVID until after the fact. I went into it blindly. I had no idea what the heck I was getting into. I don't read people's reviews on Goodreads, especially because I have found that like people in the booktok community and I don't align. Like, I just don't. I've tried to like take their recommendations and then I'm not. It's so crazy how subjective reading is and I just love More. I like books that are a little bit different, like Strange Sally diamond, the favorites like the unlikable, likable characters. You know what I mean? Yeah, I love it.

Do you have any books that are similar vibe to the favorites with toxic characters that you love that you didn't write?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I mean, I love all of Taylor Jenkins Reed's books. Like Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is a top favorite of mine. And when I was was writing this, one of my goals was to make it feel as real as that book does. Like, you just really feel like you could look up Evelyn on wikipedia. I try IMDb.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah. I was like, is she real? Is this me?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, I wanted it to feel like that. But Taylor does a great job of writing these complex female characters like Daisy Jones as well, where it's like she does a lot of questionable things, but you are on her side and can understand the psychology behind that. So I think she's really great at that.

I'm trying to think of books. This is the problem when you're a writer. I'm like, I've read all these books. They're coming out like a year from now.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Oh, like art copies or whatever. Okay. Okay. You don't have to say any of any of them. I don't want to.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I'll have a pitch for into the Blue by Emma Brody that's coming out I think next fall. I want to say 2026. And it's very much like if you liked the favorites, you'll like it.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I have not heard of that author. So that will be. Yeah, that'll be an interesting read. Women are forced to constantly wear different masks to appease other, other people. How do we stop doing that? Do we read more books that have characters that Are like, your characters that would help?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, I think so.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Give people, like, a new perspective, maybe. I feel like the. On my reading journey and all the books that I read just had. They reshape my brain. I swear, every single time I read something that I'm so invested in, I just look at things so much different and I feel like maybe that maybe people just need to read more.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, I think that helps with that issue and with, like, empathy and just expanding your worldview and everything. I can't imagine life without reading.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

How have you been impacted by Book Talk? Because I feel like Book Talk really inspired me to read more, and I know bookstores are going up left and right now. Do you feel, you know, a shift in the reading community since Book Talk took off?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Definitely. I mean, first of all, I will say I'm just like a lurker on Booktok. I'm just. I feel like I'm too old for TikTok.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Really. Nobody's too old for TikTok. Trust me. Nobody's too old for TikTok.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I feel very like, how do you do, fellow kids, when I go on TikTok? But what I love about Booktok is, like, it's made reading cool in a way that, like, it's. It's almost. It's like a lifestyle. People have all their special editions with the beautiful sprayed edges, and they're like book sleeves and stickers on their Kindles. And I love that, like, just making ready reading trendy is great. And then it's been so cool to see on Booktok how readers have discovered these books that maybe weren't given the big marketing push or even like 5, 10, 15 years old and made them these huge hits. Like, yeah, I love that my book they Never Learn. Had a little bit of a Book Talk bump for a while. I had was like a year, at least a year or two after it had come out, there was a big surge in sales and I was, like, really going on. And it was like a couple book talkers had made videos about it that had. Had gone fairly viral. And, like, that's incredible.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah, no, that's awesome. I. It's cool too, because I think word of mouth for advertising and even though I don't align, I still might, like, favorite or, like, bookmark a video to go back to to, like, order the books. And I also think it's funny too, because I. If I listen to a book on audio or if I read a book on my Kindle, I have to buy the physical copy as my trophy. So that's big for me. And. But I. I have found a community on booktok that does the same thing. So I don't feel alone and I love that.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

My kids are also really big. They're turning into bigger readers now. So my oldest son has picked up books or audiobooks because I have. And then yesterday we were traveling and yesterday or the day before, and my second son brought his book with him to read and I was like, I love this.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

So.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And I know it's on social media more with like Book Talk, Instagram, bookstore, Instagram, but also him seeing me do it as well I think is helpful and I think that's good for the younger generations because we're moving so much further away from physical books and more into technology, which drives me insane. And so I just, I think if they're going to be on screens and on social media, it's good to see the people that are reading books.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah. And like, good for boys to read more, too, because they say the demographics are like. I mean, it's like the vast majority of people who buy books and check out books in the library and whatever are women. And like, that's another issue with the patriarchy.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Right.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's like, you had to read more books.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

We need men to read books, learn a few things. Although I will say that there is a guy, I can't think of his name right now, more followed than me on Goodreads, and I'm like, yeah, like, amazing. I love it. I just started getting into. I don't mean to be a man hater, but I am a little bit. I did start reading essay Cosby, Cosby, Crosby. He's pretty good. And that, that would be great for men to pick up, you know, some of those books because it's a male author as well. So.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, Obama, it's one of his. It's one of his favorite authors.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I did read that, actually. I did. I read Razor Blade Tears and then I listened to.

King of Ashes and they were both. They were both really good. So do you feel like women are starting to own the villain role these days?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I, like, I am the women I know the women I hang out with.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Same me and Alessandra. Like, yep, that's us.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Okay.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

This is a concept called read the scenarios and decide if this is revenge or reasonable. And this kind of just goes with the never learn theme where revenge and justice are, you know, coexisting. I guess your ex cheated and lied for years. You leaked the screenshots to his mom. Reasonable or revenge.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Totally reasonable. And, like, leak the screenshots to everyone.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

You're like, if I'm gonna suffer, so are you. I found out my coworker was lying to. Was lying about me, so I told her boss she was looking for another job.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I. I wouldn't. That's more revenge. I also just. That's, like, not how I personally would go about it. I feel like it would be more of a. I'm from the Midwest, so. So, like, passive aggressive. Undermining this person until she, like, actually has to leave would be the way I would do it.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I don't know what I would do. I probably just quit my job, to be honest. I'd be like this. He told me I was too dramatic, so I tagged him in a story crying that went viral. That's kind of amazing.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah, that's just like. That's just funny.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I feel. Yeah, I'm too dramatic. Well, now the world can see you crying.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

A friend spread something I told her in confidence, so I told a secret about her online.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I would just. Yeah, that. I wouldn't do that. That feels more like petty revenge. I feel like that's just not your friend. Like, that's not your friend. So don't be friends anymore.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Yeah, I would agree with that. A girl I went to high school with talked crap about me online, so I slept with her fiance.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Unlike the characters in the favorites, I don't really believe in sexual revenge.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Sponge.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

So.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Time and place. Maybe that wasn't the time or the place. I used my ex's LinkedIn login and changed his headline to quote, still lying for a living.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I'm like, what industry is he in? Because that could be if he's, like, an advertising or even a writer. That's like, that's not such a bad thing.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

That's if. If he's in advertising and marketing. You just did wonders for him.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I know.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Okay. He told me I would never find better, so I went and dated his boss.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I guess I'm just not into all the ones that involve, like, a man. And, like, I want fewer men in my life, not more purposes.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

You know what I don't know. As a woman who is so pro women, what the am I supposed to do about having six sons?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

I do not know. That's a lot of sons.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

I have read a couple comments about. You know, Kale always talks about hating men and she has six sons. But, like, I feel like maybe they'll pick up on what I'm trying to say. Do you know what I mean? Like, they're. They'll talk about periods. They'll go grab me a tampon if I'm bleeding.

[Sponsor or advertisement voice]

You know what I mean?

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So it's like, I don't hate men. I just want them to be better. Yeah.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Like, I think I keep seeing this meme that's about, like, the women who hate men the most have the best marriages. And I definitely find that to be true for myself. Like, I hate men in general, but I love my partner, and I can, like, talk about how much I hate men around him. And he knows it doesn't mean him because he's, like, a good one. That's sort of that, like, I'm bisexual. And that's the cliche of bisexual women. That's like, we love all women, think all women are beautiful and amazing. And then we found, like, this one man where, like, he's the good one.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

And the rest of them suck.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yes. That's where I'm at.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

You know what's so interesting is that the three bisexual women in this room all have that same. We all think that way. Hate men, but not our men.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

But all the rest of them can go to hell.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

It's because we know that they're capable like, that there are men who are capable of not being, you know, terrible.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Like, knowing what I say and how I think. And you need use your critical thinking, basically. And you should feel the same way.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Yeah. It's like they can hang with our man hating and, like, learn a thing or two then.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

So interesting. I feel less alone now. Thank you for that. If you want to write your next book on me and hating men, that's fine. Fine. I'll be the. That'll be the main character of your next book. We can call it Man Eater. Where can people find you on social media? And where can people find your books?

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

So my website is LaneFargo.com and I'm mostly just on Instagram these days, which is Aide Fargo. My books are available everywhere. Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and especially in indie bookstores. I always recommend people going to their local indie if they have one.

[Host (possibly a podcast host or interviewer)]

Love that. Thank you so much for coming on Barely Famous.

[Lane Fargo (author and guest)]

Thanks for having me.

The longer days are brutal, so we start feeling frugal.

Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street, Ted, the Expendables, and so much more on Pluto TV stream now may Never.

[Justin Sylvester or Blake Lee Thornton (podcast promo voices)]

I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blake Lee Thornton. Join us for Yesterdays, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give the them the queer love. That they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up, those makeouts that should have been breakouts and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Benifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you get audio related content. We also take Venmo and Cash app or credit card number as well. We're malleable, you know we're gay today.