The Weight Of Beautiful With Jackie Goldschneider

Summary

Podcast Summary: Barely Famous – "The Weight Of Beautiful" with Jackie Goldschneider

Release Date: July 11, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Barely Famous, host Kail Lowry engages in a deeply personal and raw conversation with Jackie Goldschneider, a multifaceted personality known for her role on reality television, her legal background, and her journey through recovery from an eating disorder. The episode delves into Jackie’s struggles with body image, her experiences on reality TV, and her path to healing, offering listeners an unfiltered look into the challenges she has faced and overcome.

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Jackie’s Transition from Law to Reality TV

Jackie begins by sharing her transition from a promising legal career to the unpredictable world of reality television. Despite her qualifications and success as an attorney, she chose to leave her profession to focus on her family and later, her participation in the Real Housewives franchise.

• Quote: “[...] I was a good lawyer, but the apartment got so cramped, I decided to let the whole thing go.” – Jackie Goldschneider [05:00]

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Navigating Motherhood with Multiple Children

Jackie discusses her life as a mother of two sets of twins and a daughter, highlighting the joys and challenges of raising her children while managing her mental health.

• Quote: “It's crazy when your little boys are suddenly men.” – Jackie Goldschneider [03:01]

She emphasizes the special bond among her twins and reflects on how their relationship has been a source of strength for her.

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Struggles with Eating Disorders and Recovery

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Jackie’s battle with anorexia, tracing its roots to her upbringing and the generational trauma surrounding food in her family.

• Quote: “Eating became about love. And eating... It wasn't really about hunger.” – Jackie Goldschneider [07:58]

Jackie explains how her mother's upbringing, influenced by Holocaust survival, led to an unhealthy relationship with food, where eating was equated with love and security. This backdrop set the stage for Jackie’s own disordered eating patterns, which persisted into adulthood and deeply affected her personal and professional life.

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Impact of Reality TV on Mental Health

Jackie opens up about the additional pressures of participating in reality TV while grappling with her eating disorder. The environment amplified her struggles, making her eating habits a public spectacle.

• Quote: “When I walked into that room and I was the thinnest person in that room, everyone was going to notice me because that made me special.” – Jackie Goldschneider [76:06]

The episode highlights a pivotal moment where Jackie’s eating disorder became apparent on screen, leading to heightened scrutiny and personal turmoil.

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Journey Through Recovery

Jackie details her path to recovery, emphasizing the importance of comprehensive treatment involving both dietitians and therapists. She discusses the challenges of overcoming ingrained behaviors and societal pressures to maintain a certain body image.

• Quote: “Recovery work because you can’t just fix it with diet drugs.” – Jackie Goldschneider [36:34]

Jackie shares her ongoing journey, acknowledging that while she has made significant progress, she remains in active recovery, continuously working to build a healthy relationship with food and her body.

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Influence of Weight Loss Programs and Societal Pressure

Jackie critiques popular weight loss programs like Weight Watchers, arguing that they often exacerbate disordered eating by treating food purely as a mathematical problem rather than nourishment.

• Quote: “Weight Watchers taught me how to eat... I lost all connection to it.” – Jackie Goldschneider [33:24]

She underscores the detrimental effects of societal beauty standards and the relentless pursuit of thinness, which fueled her eating disorder and hindered her ability to embrace a healthy lifestyle.

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Balancing Fame and Family

Despite the challenges, Jackie reflects on the positive aspects of her life, particularly the strong bond with her family and the support from her husband, Evan. She offers insights into maintaining a rock-solid marriage amidst the chaos of public life and personal struggles.

• Quote: “You have to let each other be themselves... A lot of trust and space is very important.” – Jackie Goldschneider [78:02]

Jackie attributes her resilient marriage to mutual respect, trust, and allowing each other personal space, highlighting the importance of a solid support system.

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Advice for Others Facing Similar Struggles

Throughout the episode, Jackie provides heartfelt advice for listeners dealing with eating disorders or mental health challenges. She emphasizes the importance of seeking comprehensive treatment, building a supportive network, and disentangling self-worth from body image.

• Quote: “You can be so far gone and still completely make your way back.” – Jackie Goldschneider [73:54]

Jackie encourages transparency with loved ones and underscores the possibility of recovery, no matter how deep one’s struggles may appear.

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Conclusion

Jackie Goldschneider’s candid conversation on Barely Famous offers profound insights into the intersection of fame, mental health, and personal resilience. Her story serves as a beacon of hope for those battling similar challenges, illustrating that with the right support and determination, recovery is attainable. Jackie’s journey underscores the necessity of addressing the root causes of mental health issues and the importance of fostering a healthy relationship with oneself and one’s body.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. “Eating became about love. And eating... It wasn't really about hunger.” – Jackie Goldschneider [07:58]
2. “Weight Watchers taught me how to eat... I lost all connection to it.” – Jackie Goldschneider [33:24]
3. “You have to let each other be themselves... A lot of trust and space is very important.” – Jackie Goldschneider [78:02]
4. “You can be so far gone and still completely make your way back.” – Jackie Goldschneider [73:54]
5. “Recovery work because you can’t just fix it with diet drugs.” – Jackie Goldschneider [36:34]

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Final Thoughts

The Weight Of Beautiful episode with Jackie Goldschneider is a poignant exploration of the hidden struggles behind public personas. It serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of mental health awareness and the ongoing battle against societal pressures regarding body image. Jackie’s openness and vulnerability provide invaluable lessons in empathy, resilience, and the human spirit’s capacity to heal.

Transcript

[Kale Lowry]

Get more than you expect with the five dollar meal deal. Part of new McValue 5 gets you a McDouble or McChicken and a small fry and a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. New McValue at McDonald's. Prices of participation may vary. McDouble Meal, $6 in some markets for limited time only. Welcome to the Shit Show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry, and you're listening to Barely. Welcome to Barely Famous Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us, Jackie.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Thank you for having me.

[Kale Lowry]

I'm so excited because I was reading your book and I know that it came out in 2023, but there's a lot that we could talk about in here if you're okay with it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. Everything okay.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. Well, first let's start about. Let's start with where you are today and then we'll go back. Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

In recovery?

[Kale Lowry]

No, just in general. Oh, in general. The Real Housewives.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yes.

[Kale Lowry]

You have two sets of twins, you're an attorney. You have. You went to school for. To be an attorney. You practice law. So where are you today? Do you still film the show?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Do you still. My show is on pause, so we don't know what's going on with it. The last time we filmed was a year and a half ago, so except for the one off at Rails, we did. We finished filming the last season in October of 23, so it's been a long time. So the show is on hold, so not doing that currently.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I am not practicing law anymore.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I am writing my second book, which is very, very exciting. I don't have the book deal yet, though.

[Kale Lowry]

Because you don't need one.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, no, I'll get one. I'll get one. I'm not worried about that. But my first book that we're going to talk about today was a memoir, so I sold that on Proposal.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But so I do have an agent already and I have a publisher who. I did my first book, did very well. So I'm sure that they would give me another book deal. But this one's a novel, so I have to write most of it first.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

In order to sell it. So I'm almost there. So should have a book deal in the coming weeks.

[Kale Lowry]

Do we have a genre? Are you willing to say what the genre is?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, I went all over the place with this at the beginning, but it is, I think, like dark comedy.

[Kale Lowry]

Oh, okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. It's a revenge fantasy.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But it's. I was Gonna make it a drama. But the drama and revenge together made it too. It was just too sullen. So I. It's dark comedy is a little bit better.

[Kale Lowry]

I'm a big fan of dark romance.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, I don't know. Dark romance?

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. Dark romance is like falling in love with your stalker. Falling in love with. It's like dark. I'm a little bit dark, you know?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Wow.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. So that sounds like that's right up my alley because I also love like a good rom com. So the two of them together, I feel like, would be good.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's fun.

[Kale Lowry]

So you are, You're. You were just telling me that your twins just turned 17. They got their car.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's crazy. It's crazy when your little boys are suddenly men.

[Kale Lowry]

Well, I just feel like I just read about them, so it's hard for me to like, picture. And then I saw on your Instagram that you had got them in the car, and I was like, wait a minute. They just. They were just born.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I know.

[Kale Lowry]

Isn't that so weird? I know.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They really were just born. Yeah. My older boys turned 17 and they're fully men. It's crazy.

[Kale Lowry]

And they're. They're in high school.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They're in high school. One of them is. They both play basketball. Once had a problem with his knees, so. Other one. But the other one is just like he's 6:1 and he's like this, a basketball star and looking at. He's getting recruited by colleges.

[Kale Lowry]

How crazy is that?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's just wild.

[Kale Lowry]

Does he have like a. Where he wants to go? You don't say where?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, not yet. Because they did a bridge year at a sports academy to get taller for basketball. But it was also like school. So that was between eighth and ninth grade. So they're. They're only sophomores.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So they're finishing up their sophomore year. So it's all just getting going. But it depends what who asks him to play for them.

[Kale Lowry]

So we became moms around the same time.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Then my first baby was. You have a 17 year old?

[Kale Lowry]

No, he's 15.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh. Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

So we were both sort of. Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. And then my. My second set of twins are 14, so almost the same. Wow. Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Well, I remember reading in your book that you had four kids under three, like three and under and.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. So, you know, crazy that is.

[Kale Lowry]

No, I do, but I'm just thinking, like, to start motherhood, like that was how you started and you didn't know any different.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, but I like that. Like I'm. I'm Crazy. I like every minute of the day having something to do, which also has to do a little bit with, like, my psychosis. But I. When I have too much leisure time, I start to feel bad.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And I don't know what to do with myself.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So for me, having four kids under three worked.

[Kale Lowry]

And you stopped practicing law once you decided to get pregnant and start a family?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, no, I stopped practicing law because I didn't think I'd moved to New Jersey, so I only took the New York bar. So I actually liked practicing law, and I was good at it. But when I left, when I had the first set of. I had this fantasy in my head that we'd be living in the city and I'd be a working lawyer and my husband in finance, and we'd have this one little baby in the bugaboo. And then I had twins.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And then I was sick and I was on bed rest, and I didn't feel good. And when the twins came, I was like, I don't know how to do this. Like, and work, you know, it's hard. And then the apartment got so cramped, I was, like, stepping over toys, and I said, let's get the hell out of here. Like, let's go to New Jersey. Yeah, but in New Jersey, I didn't take the bar, and I wasn't going to sit again for the bar with newborn twins at home, so I just let the whole thing go.

[Kale Lowry]

But so could you still?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I could. Yeah. I mean, I could take the Jersey bar. You can't wave in. Last I checked, you can't wave into New Jersey.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I could. I could go back to work in New York.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's just. I don't know how passionate I. I'm really passionate about writing books.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. Well, I read that in this book, and I'm so excited to hear more about this novel because I'm a big, big book girly. Yeah. Love to. That sounds like it's right up my alley, so I'm excited for that, but. So you grew up in New Jersey?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I grew up in Staten Island, New York.

[Kale Lowry]

But then you moved to New Jersey as a teenager.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

As a teenager. And I had a horrific high school experience, which really formed the basis of everything that came afterwards with eating disorders.

[Kale Lowry]

Can we talk about it?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. So when I was reading, I tabbed a bunch of stuff, because even if you don't struggle with an eating disorder, there was so many things in this book that were relatable to me. And so I tabbed a couple of the things. If we. If you don't mind, we can go over them. So you are the first generation here from. Of immigrants, Right. Your parents were immigrated?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

My mother.

[Kale Lowry]

Your mother.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

My dad was here, yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. And your grandparents were also immigrants? Immigrants and survived.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, my. My grandparents. My mother's parents were Holocaust survivors.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And my mother was born in Israel after they escaped Poland.

[Kale Lowry]

Yep. And then when your parents came over here and. Or your mom came over here, she sort of had it in her. I don't know. I don't know if I would call it genetics, but it was.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I call it generational food trauma.

[Kale Lowry]

Generational food trauma. Because there was, you know, they were famished. Right. Like, there was no food. And so because of that, your mom sort of showered you with food.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. So they had this mentality that was. Her mom had, which I didn't know, because by the time they were my grandparents, they were, like, old and, you know, all they wanted to do was buy me toys. But they had. They had this mentality around food that was. You don't know when it's gonna disappear. So when you have it, eat all of it. Right. Eat every last thing. And then even when that was not an issue anymore, when we had plenty of food, my mother's mentality around food was still, it's in front of you. Eat everything. And she also had this, like, guilt because she was a working mom, and so when she was home, she would cook just, like, massive loads of food. And it gave her a lot of joy to see us, like, food filled up with the food. So there was just a lot of food pushing a lot.

[Kale Lowry]

And so you think that is sort of where it start, like, the eating.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Disorders came from?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I think the disordered eating, it. It all started when I was a kid, like, not really knowing my hunger cues. Like, hunger and eating kind of lost their connection, because eating became about love. And eating. Eating. It wasn't really about hunger. You kept eating beyond the hunger to show appreciation and to show love.

[Kale Lowry]

Right. And I think a lot of cultures are like that. I know I have been around different Hispanic cultures where, you know, it is sort of looked at as rude if you turn down someone's food. And it's not meant to be rude, but there we should be able to distinguish between, you know, we're hungry or we're not hungry. And not. But I think so many cultures, not just Hispanic or, you know, your culture, but I think that that's pretty common.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. And just to be clear, I'm not judging my mom, she did the best that she knew how to do. It was just really ingrained in her.

[Kale Lowry]

No, and I think that makes sense because when you, when you live like that for so long and she, that's how she grew up, is that you have to eat everything in front of you. And so I immediately, reading this book, like the first 20 pages, you're already just absolutely invested because of your story. And like even just that alone, I was so invested. And I highlighted a couple other parts because then when you move from New York to New Jersey and you had a really, really challenging high school journey, I could relate to that. And I, I wouldn't say that I had disordered eating, but I could relate to a lot of the things that you said. And so you encountered a girl that was really popular and she was like what you wanted to be, and she was thin and she was popular and all of these things. And it's. You wrote in here that she made you feel inadequate by doing absolutely nothing at all. And I thought that that could be relatable to a lot, just anyone that is struggling with disordered eating.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, I mean, I just compared myself to everyone and that lasted way into adulthood. And it's really only in recovery that I stopped doing that because I had the therapy that taught me, you know, you have to when you recover, which I'm jumping to the end, when you recover, you sort of have to have both a dietitian and a therapist. Ideally.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Because the dietitian's going to teach you like how to eat food again and you know, how to feel safe eating food. But the therapist is really going to go after the reasons why you would choose to starve yourself in order to solve something in your life.

[Kale Lowry]

Right, right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And what I was doing was just comparing myself to every single person that I saw. And body size is what I used to compare a lot. And that, that really led me down a very dangerous path. But yeah, I remember this, this girl in high school and just how perfect she appeared. And she was thin, very thin. And I thought being thin would solve all my problems, but I just didn't know how to get there.

[Kale Lowry]

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[Kale Lowry]

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[Jackie Goldschneider]

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[Kale Lowry]

Were your parents average or no?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

My dad. My dad has always struggled with eating issues as well and he has talked about it on my show. So I I know he's not secretive about it. I would never share someone else's secrets. But he struggled for a very long time. Then he had lap band surgery. Ok. And then he was tightening it so much he couldn't eat anything and now he's on Ozempic so he's happy. Which is a whole nother challenge for me.

[Kale Lowry]

A challenge in what way?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's hard to go out for me now in recovery, it's hard to go out to meals with people who aren't eating. It's hard for me to hear how great it is not to have an appetite and I'm strong enough to let those things roll off my shoulders now. But a lot of people in recovery aren't. But I used to get a real jolt out of not eating. Like, the longer I could go without eating and the lighter I felt, I felt good. I felt clean, which was. It was all in my head. It was a mental illness. There's nothing good about not eating. But when. But like, my dad will say, God, I haven't even eaten yesterday and I'm not even hungry. And I will get this, like, little spark of jealousy of how, like, a little piece of me will miss it. And then I'll be like, no, no, there's nothing to miss. It's part of. It was all part of a package of me being sick.

[Kale Lowry]

That's so interesting. I also think it's interesting that you. That your dad was willing to share his struggles as a man, because I feel like eating disorders are constantly thrown on women and nobody talks about men struggling with it or males. Body image.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Teenage boys who are athletes struggle a lot. I know a lot of young men who just don't eat for their sport.

[Kale Lowry]

I know. I'm familiar with that with wrestling, but I don't. I'm not super familiar with it in any other capacity.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No. And actually, there's like, this new, like, the new hot, like, Persona in Hollywood. If you look, they did a whole thing on it last year about. Remember the guy who was in Enora? Did you see Anora?

[Kale Lowry]

No.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

The real skinny Russian star of Anora. And they did this whole thing on all these, like, skinny Benson. Boo. And like, all these skinny young men with, like, these little mustaches and how, like, that's the new aesthetic. Like, being. Being very thin and lanky is like the new aesthetic. And Timothee Chalamet, it's like the whole new, like, look.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, I'm not interested. No, it's. My. My oldest son has made a couple comments about, you know, body weight, body image, and things like that. And I. I take it so seriously because I realize that, you know, how his dad. How he perceives his dad or how he perceives me and what I'm doing really do affect him. And I. I think that when you wrote in your book, too, and I'm sort of jumping around, you know, there was a section of the book where you talked about how your kids just knew that you just don't eat when they go to. When you guys go get ice cream or you just don't. And that was just how it was. Do you think that they ever picked up on it later on?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, so throughout their whole lives, I would take them for Ice cream and get a Diet Coke. I would take them for pizza and get a Diet Coke. And I didn't care because the eating disorder controlled my life, and it was mine. So I was very possessive of it, and nobody was allowed to say anything to me about it. But I also felt like they were really young and, like, who cares if they notice? Like, they don't know the difference between what I'm supposed to be doing and not. And then when I. I did come clean to my husband, who was the first. It was the first time I ever openly admitted that I had a problem. My husband told me that the kids notice it, and that threw me because I just didn't think that they ever noticed it. And once I realized that my children were picking up this stuff, I realized all the things that I carried from my childhood into where I am right now, and I really got sick over it. I felt like I had to undo it all immediately.

[Kale Lowry]

What was the turning point for you in telling your husband? Because for a good. I think the first half of the.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Book.

[Kale Lowry]

You drop a couple hints that he sort of knew, but he didn't want to. He didn't want to talk about it because of the one time that he said something and you were very upset. So what was the turning point for you to want to actually admit it and say it out loud?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. So I knew that the minute I said it out loud to somebody, there was no turning back, especially my husband, because he'd want to help me. That's why I never said anything, because I never wanted to, like, go back to being overweight because I had so many trauma connections between being overweight and being unhappy and, like, objectively lonely. So I had a. I hit a rock bottom. My. It was sort of. It was a lot of mental. I was punishing myself for something that happened. I felt really bad about something that happened. And I stop eating when I want to punish myself. I'll stop eating even today. No, no, no, no, no, no. Never. I never play with food anymore back then. So I wasn't eating. And I also had a hamstring injury, and I wouldn't let myself eat anything if I didn't exercise that day. So I had to exercise. So I was running through an injury, and my body was just in so much pain, and I was so hungry, and I was also so overwhelmed emotionally. And I sort of collapsed on the floor, and I had this moment where I was like, what would happen? What would happen if I stopped? Like, what's. What's the worst thing that could happen, because I don't think I can go like this anymore. I'm gonna actually die. And I was super thin, like breakable thin. And I knew that if I told my husband that there would be no turning back. So I literally marched upstairs and I was like, I have to talk to you. And he was very relieved. He was very relieved. Not that I made any moves that day, but it was very. It put in motion my entire recovery.

[Kale Lowry]

When you say relieved, what, what does that mean? Like, he was happy that you finally acknowledged it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It means that not only was he scared that I was going to die eventually, because anorexia is the number one most deadly mental illness and a lot of people die from it. So not only was he afraid that I would die, but this eating disorder not only controlled my life, but it controlled our family's schedule.

[Kale Lowry]

Well, right, because you talked about, not to cut you off, but you talked about counting your, your baby's calories and making sure they ate and controlling and monitoring every single thing that they were.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Taking but beyond that. So I ended that when I got really admonished by a nutritionist. But when I say it controlled our lives. Like, we couldn't go on vacations that were more than three nights because I felt too uncomfortable eating out more than three nights in a row. We couldn't choose a hotel that didn't have a state of the art gym because I wouldn't go there. Everything we did had to start after a certain time in the morning so that I could get in my morning workout. Every restaurant had to be pre approved if they didn't have things on the menu that I could eat. We did not go there. Like, every single thing that had to do with food or exercise was controlled by my eating disorder. And my family just had to fall in line. And that was. It's a lot for my husband. He wanted to take longer vacation. Like, he was. He was also kind of tired of like, if we were sitting on the couch on a Saturday night. Want to order in with me? No, Eat your own stuff. Like, I'm eating my stuff. And like, that's, you know, it's part of a marriage. Like, we didn't share anything ever.

[Kale Lowry]

I remember you talking about that in the book where you were wanting to travel before you guys started a family, but at that point you didn't want to travel. And I highlighted. I think it's on page 90 or something.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, traveling was so hard.

[Kale Lowry]

Something along the lines of, you know, going to Mexico and, you know, you brought 36 cans of tuna fish. Tuna fish. Did he know that you brought that? Did he know that you did that?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

He says that he did. He says he noticed everything after the fact. He told me that he knew he knew everything, but I'm not so sure he knew about that. I was very, very sleuth. Like, I was very secretive with everything. So I would take the cans of tuna in my bag. I had a big bag. And then I would excuse myself and go eat them in the bathroom and come back and pick up my food. So I don't know if he noticed, but he certainly noticed I wasn't eating at the meals.

[Kale Lowry]

Instead of, like, moving it around, I moved it around.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Or I would order things that were so plain and take, like, bites. Sometimes I would. When I'm home, I would not anymore. But back then I would cook stuff at home, bring it in tin foil and then open it under the table and put it on my plate so that I could eat that instead of what they served me at the meal, but still look like I was eating my meal.

[Kale Lowry]

How did your parents react to all of this when they found out?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, so my parents, when they saw me losing weight, at first it was like, oh, wow, great.

[Kale Lowry]

I know your dad was really happy.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, they were so proud of me. But then when it ventured into, like, the scene at my wedding, then they were kind of hysterical. And that lasted for a while. I don't know if you looked at.

[Kale Lowry]

The pictures I did, I got.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But that look where I was just like a floating head. Like a big floating head with, like, a tiny little skeletal body. They got very, very nervous. But my dad has always had a very strange relationship with weight. He feels like if you can lose weight, then you won. It doesn't matter how thin you get. Like, if you go from big to small, you win because that's what everyone's after. And that was really hard for me because if somebody thinks that you're killing it, it's hard to be like, no, actually I'm not.

[Kale Lowry]

I'm struggling.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's bad. Yeah. It makes it harder to admit. Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

At what point do you think that your kids really did notice and say something to your husband?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I think in, like, they started in, like, year 2020, like during the pandemic when we were all home together and eating became, like, the. The thing to do. I think they really started noticing that, like, I didn't partake in anything. Like, we were ordering in all the time. I never ordered in. We were getting these homemade pizza making kits. I never tried the pizza. We were baking cookies. I never had one of their cookies. I think they started noticing a lot then. And plus at that time I really had a lot of habits around the house that I thought nobody would pick up on. But I wouldn't eat anything if I couldn't measure it in a measuring spoon. So like there was just. My whole kitchen was just. There were measuring spoons everywhere because that's the way I lived. And I think they started to pick up that. That's not normal.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. Did they notice that you were freezing food?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I think they did, yeah. And now I see them sometimes like stick stuff in the freezer and it bothers me because I don't want.

[Kale Lowry]

Do they know why they're doing it?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They do it because they like things like they like, like make things into pops, obstacles and stuff.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I get nervous. I don't think they're doing it for the same reasons I did it. I did it because I wanted my food to last. And it's takes a lot longer to choose something that's frozen.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Right. So I would freeze everything for that purpose. But. And I think that's a really common habit among anorexics.

[Kale Lowry]

Really.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

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[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, no, it's because I didn't like. So if I was going to eat a yogurt, there was so few times during the day that I could eat that I wanted it to really last. That's why I would also eat like 20 bags of salad a day because it makes a meal last. If you're just going to eat like a, like an egg. Right. That takes what, 40 seconds to eat. But if you pair it with four bags of salad, like you could dip the salad into the egg yolk and like make it last an hour.

[Kale Lowry]

Right? Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But it' disgusting. It's disgusting. So, like, let's be honest.

[Kale Lowry]

I mean, you put salt on your lettuce. I think I read too.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh. I mean, the things I used to do. I used to make a bowl of cornflakes and take a water bottle and spray the water bottle until they were like soggy enough and pour sweet and low on it and eat it. Like that's. I would do anything to just have food in my stomach that was the lowest amount of calories possible because I had convinced myself all starting back when I was 14 years old, that if I could just be thin, I could be as happy as, as the thin popular girls in my high school. And so that Became my life goal.

[Kale Lowry]

I wonder if I have that same struggle. I don't starve myself, but I just constantly get surgery, and I just constantly.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Am like, I didn't even know that.

[Kale Lowry]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've had two full mommy makeovers, liposuction, everything. And then I just put a little gym in my house. It's been a little rough, but it's like. And you. I, you know, learning about everything in your book and learning that you have, you know, know, three sons and a daughter. I have six sons and a daughter. I don't know how to talk about this with my kids.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, well, I have. I have some info on that, too, if you want.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, absolutely anything. I mean, because. Especially for my daughter, because that was one of the things. I had surgery in December, and that was after the fact. I started, you know, thinking, oh, my God, like, what if my daughter wants to mutilate her body? And, like, is struggling with image and, you know, we think, you know, your mom probably thought the same thing of you. You look great. Doesn't matter what you look like. You're still, as your mother, she loves you no matter what.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

And so how do we tell our daughters that when we look in the mirror and hate ourselves?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, no, I know. And I had a mommy makeover also when I was sick, which I think there's some ethics in that. Like, I don't know why you're giving an anorexic woman who weighs 90 pounds a tummy tuck, but I think I make a really. I. I am constantly telling my daughter about how different bodies are beautiful and her body is beautiful, and that when I was really, really sick. Remember when Mommy was sick? Remember when mommy couldn't go out to eat? That's what it takes to be thin. You have to really deprive yourself to be that thin. And I think she wants to know part of it. I also make sure that they know that no foods are good or bad. They're just food. And just eat in moderation and forget the rest and really just be physical. Like, I try not to make anything a big deal right around food.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think it's really hard. When I. Before I had the surgery, I was talking to one of my girlfriends who had a surgery similar to what you said that your dad had. And she was, you know, telling me how incredibly difficult it was because a lot of social things happen around food, parties, dinners, birthday. Part. You just. Any. Everything was surrounded by food. And so even after she had her surgery, she was saying, how you know she would want to go and not in dull overindia.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, a lot of people do out eat their lap band but some people are even out eating the diet drugs like Ozempic. Yeah, they're just eating until they feel sick and it's not working because they just eat. They enjoy the, the eating part which is why people go off the diet drugs. So I deep dive, I deep dive on everything. But I was, I did deep dive on Ozempic type drugs and can we.

[Kale Lowry]

Talk about that because I don't know anything.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

There's been a whole lot thing for me because I don't care in the micro, I don't care what individual is on diet drugs. Like you have your reasons for doing it and like I have to respect your reasons for doing it. But in the, but in the macro, I wonder a lot about these drugs and people go off of them I think on average after two years because they really miss food is one of the main reasons they miss eating. They miss enjoying food without getting sick. They miss like a lot of people go off when they go on vacation and then come back on when they come home because they miss eating.

[Kale Lowry]

I wonder what the psychology is around like wanting to eat though, right? Like growing up, we were just talking before you walked in, we were talking about how I just love to eat, right. Like I didn't have generational traumas or anything like that that would cause me to want to eat. But I just love eating and I could never fight it. So when you talked about if you didn't eat, you were the strongest willed person that you knew. That's how I would have felt. But I never could be strong enough to not eat. I would just overeat and overeat and overeat.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, I have something else to say about fat. Now this is controversial, okay. I strongly feel like if you took a group of 100 people who went on Weight Watchers in the 90s, you would find that about 90% of them probably have disordered eating or eating disorders from it. Because Weight watchers in the 90s. And you'll see that was the first diet I went on my senior year of high school. My doctor shamed me, told me I could not go to college fat because I would not have fun. And I was very overweight at that point. But not like morbidly obese, you know.

[Kale Lowry]

I mean the pictures, I thought you looked like a normal.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I was overweight. I was, I was over 200 pounds. But I, he sent me to Weight Watchers straight from his office. I went to the Weight Watchers at the mall and I registered and I, in the first week, I lost nine pounds. Weight Watchers in the 90s was a starvation diet. I probably barely had 900 calories a day for a 17 year old's body. That's not even close to enough. And I lost 50 pounds before I went to college. And then I wildly yo yoed. And every time I would go back up, I would go to Weight Watchers and go back down and then go to. And then be on my own and go back up and then Weight Watchers and go back down. And so Weight Watchers taught me. What Weight Watchers did for me was, I think it was a perfect storm of like developing mental illness. This desperate need to be thin and fit in. And Weight Watchers taught me to use food as a game and that eating was math. It wasn't about hunger. It was about exchanging food and finding the, the lowest calorie exchanges and maximizing your points. And that taught me how to eat. So I stopped looking at food as nourishment, which made it easy to hate food. I've never loved food because I felt like food betrayed me. And I felt like food. I felt like my body was just dying to be fat and anything I ate it would just like, compound. So I had no problem giving it up because I felt, I felt like food was my enemy. And when I went on Weight Watchers and learned how to diet from Weight Watchers and food became just numbers, I lost all connection to it.

[Kale Lowry]

And that was the end of it for you?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

That was the end of it. The day I went on Weight Watchers, the first time at 17 was the last day of my life that I ever wasn't on a diet until I recovered.

[Kale Lowry]

I don't know what the rules are for Weight Watchers today because they've also done Weight Watchers in the past. I don't know if you can do weight watchers at 17.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

At this point now it's 18. Yeah, but back then, I mean, I know people whose parents. But I'm, I'm almost 50.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I know people whose parents put them on it at 12 years old. It's, it's bad. And I actually would love to. So I was a journalist before I was on the Housewives, and I would love to do a deep dive investigative. I mean, Weight Watchers is a behemoth. So I don't know that I really want to take them on. But I bet you if you looked into all the people that went on we watches in the 90s. It's. It's not. Their eating habits were all messed up.

[Kale Lowry]

Have you ever connected with other people that have the same sort of struggle? Like.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah, I got a lot. Well, when I wrote the book, I got thousands of messages. Thousands. And a lot of them were about Weight Watchers, you know, but then again, do you want. Do I really want to take on Weight Watchers?

[Kale Lowry]

I mean, we could all take them on together.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, let's do it.

[Kale Lowry]

Class action. And then. So you struggled with. And I've never really talked to anyone or heard of anyone struggling with disordered eating while pregnant.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

So reading about that, and I know how much I ate when I was pregnant, you know, with singletons, also with my twins and passing out in a.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Grocery store, being pregnant and anorexic. It doesn't just go away because you. You get pregnant, you know, it was bad.

[Kale Lowry]

I know what it's like to almost pass out while you're pregnant and not be counting calories and things like that. So I cannot imagine what it was like for you. And even that wasn't really, like, rock bottom for you.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, no, that wasn't rock bottom. I had two rock bottoms. The first one was in Mexico when I was eating the tuna on a toilet. That was really bad. The. The second rock bottom is, was when I collapsed on the floor and decided I had to stop because right before, I didn't put this in my book, but right before I had that rock bottom where I finally decided to recover. And that was four years ago. And I'm still in recovery. I'm still in active recovery.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay, so that was going to be one of my questions. I know with, you know, drug addicts or alcoholics, they're sort of always in recovery. Like, at the point that you're sober, you are forever then a recovering addict or alcoholic. Is it the same for disordered eating?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Different? I think this is just my personal opinion. I don't know what an expert would say. For me, I think that you can make a full and complete recovery with food because whereas with, like, alcohol and drugs, you just have to abstain from it forever. You can't do that with food. Right. You have to learn to eat. I think that you can, if you get rid of all the noise in your head and the mental aspects of it, I think you can learn to have a really healthy relationship with food, which is where this intersects with oic, because I think a lot of people are relying on diet drugs now. And instead of recovery, instead of doing the recovery work because you can quiet all that noise in your head. But that's not, that's not the real recovery. Right. Like you have to fix your relationship to food, but also fix the reasons why you'd starve yourself in the first place, or else it's going to manifest in another way.

[Kale Lowry]

Overeating as well. Right. You have to fix the relationship because the food noise won't go away. I mean, it'll go away while you're on the, the drugs, but you won't. It'll come right back.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, if you go off, I think there are people that are planning on staying on it forever if you can. We don't know. We don't know if that's sustainable. We'll see in a few years from now. And I think another problem is that a lot of these studies you hear about how fabulous they are are funded by the drug companies that are producing them. So I think it just remains to be seen. And I don't want anybody to get sick. It wouldn't make me happy if it came out that it's causing like cancer or anything like that. But I think that people are relying on. Listen, there's a reason why you chose to deprive yourself of like your life source in order to fix something in your life. And going on a diet drug is not going to help you resolve that and get healthy from that. So that's why I, I get nervous with these diet drugs because I know a lot of people who had anorexia who are like, oh my God, I'm on a diet drug now. I never think about food anymore. I never have to think about it.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And it just scares me because there's so much value in repairing your relationship to food and really understanding, like just setting an example, especially as a parent from my, my daughter and my sons. But like, especially my daughter.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You know.

[Kale Lowry]

No. And I relate to that so hard. I don't even know how I'm going to explain my choices to her. And I hope that she doesn't have the same struggles because I do think that it's a mental illness for me as well. Let's talk about Haya Kids vitamins. I'm obsessed with these. And as soon as you get them, you get these little jars. Your kids can decorate them with stickers. That's the most fun part outside of obviously taking the vitamins themselves. But typical children's vitamins are basically candy in disguise filled with 2 teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals and other gummy junk. I've said it before, I've said it a million times. That's why Haya was created to create something better. And the pediatrician approved superpowered children's vitamin is everything because it gets delivered straight to your door. So I don't even have to think about adding vitamins to my grocery list. Haya fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diets to provide the full body nourishment our kids need. And kids love these vitamins. I'm telling you, I have seven kids and almost all of them take these vitamins. You're gonna love them. I also recommend checking out their new kids probiotic and nighttime essentials. I do have a child that is a little bit more challenging for bedtime and I've actually work worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. You guys can receive 50 off your first order. And to claim this deal you must go to hayahealth.com famous but the deal is not available on their regular website. So go to h I y a h e a l th.com famous to get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. All right y'. All. Supplement stacks are expensive, they're hard to keep up with and the solution to this is Everyday Dose Dose. Everyday Dose is affordable and covers all your bases in a cup of coffee. It takes 30 seconds to make and you get coffee plus a bunch of supplements with vitamins, minerals and amino acids. I love my coffee routine, but I don't like the way it makes me feel sometimes. And so Everyday Dose has classic coffee taste that you guys love. I love it and without nasty side effects. Plus it has added benefits so there's no crash or jitters. Everyday Dose is Coffee plus benefits. I can't stress to you guys how cool and great and I absolutely love this product so much. It combines 100 a abaca coffee with powerful ingredients like lion's mane and chaga, collagen, protein and nootropics to fuel your brain, boost focus and give you clean, sustained energy all day long. Everyday Dose has two products, Coffee plus and Coffee plus Bold. So Coffee plus is a mild light roast. It's smooth and low acidity which is easy on sensitive stomachs like mine and mellow energy. Coffee Plus Bold is a rich blend of medium roast, 100 Arabica coffee, robust and full body, yellow yet smooth. Both are 100 Arabica coffee, have functional benefits and are mold free. Everyday Dose does third party testing, which is amazing and you guys can get 45 off your first subscription order of 30 servings of Coffee plus or Bold Plus. You'll also receive a starter kit with over 100 in free gifts, including a rechargeable frother and gunmetal serving spoon by going to everydaydose.com famous or entering code famous at checkout out. You'll also get free gifts throughout the year, and that's everyday dose.com famous for 45 off your first order. So you did. You did IVF? Several rounds of IVF.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, I lost my period probably one year into anorexia.

[Kale Lowry]

Oh, that. That soon?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Like that quickly after a year? Well, my. My weight kind of plummeted, so I started in. I'm a real sucker for dates. Like, I. I remember everything. I have the mind of an elephant. That's why I could write this book in, like a minute. I wrote this book in, like.

[Kale Lowry]

Can you write mine?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I started, like, real anorexia in the summer of 2003. And by the summer of 2004, I was like, no, not the summer. By the end of 2004, I was really, really thin. So I lost my period. I was on the pill, though, so I didn't really know, but I lost my. It stopped even coming with the pillow. And so I had no choice. I couldn't get pregnant. I didn't ovulate. I didn't do. My body didn't do anything. And also, there's a lot of science behind it. Like your. Your glands are not going to produce the reproductive hormones that they need because your body's in protection mode, like it's trying to protect. So the reason you lose your period is because your body recognizes that it doesn't have enough calories to do everything.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So it has to do the things.

[Kale Lowry]

That are going to keep you alive, like prioritize, basically.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So your period is not one of those. Neither is temperature regulation, which is why so many anorexic people are very cold all the time. It's not just because you don't have fat lining your bones. That's part of it. But you lose temperature regulation. You also lose a lot of muscle mass because your body has to. It takes a lot of calories to form muscle. So all of these reasons why your body is trying to keep you alive. So it lets go of a lot of the things that allow you to reproduce, produce.

[Kale Lowry]

When you and your husband decided to try to get pregnant and start the. The family journey, did he know without talking about it? Why?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Not at all. Okay. He didn't know oh, like he didn't know it from anything. From, like, women's reproductive stuff.

[Kale Lowry]

Like, he didn't know that you having disordered eating led to you not getting a period?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I don't think so. No. I mean, he's very smart, right? So I think. Think when the doctor sent us to a clinic, he might have started to have an inkling that maybe I was too thin. But right when I got pregnant, Nicole Richie was pregnant and she was emaciated. And you never know anyone's story, but I remember looking at her and being like, well, she got pregnant. So. And this is part of my comparison thing, so I'm fine. Like, I don't care. My doctor, I remember him telling me, like, maybe try to put on a few pounds and let's see if that works naturally. And I was like, no, I remember. Yeah, yeah, it was too hard. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. So, like, I remember going to the store and, like, picking up a sandwich in one of those plastic triangle tins and looking at it and being like, I cannot physically eat this.

[Kale Lowry]

So when, while I was reading and trying to understand, like, where you were at from an outsider's perspective, it's like, well, okay, just eat grilled chicken or just eat fruit or just eat something healthy. But to you, that was not part of it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I just couldn't eat food because when I would go to eat something, I would connect the trauma of being overweight with being so unhappy. And so when I would go to eat something, I felt sick to my stomach. And mentally, I had a mental block, and putting it in my mouth, even.

[Kale Lowry]

If it was healthy. Celery, Carrots. Carrots.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Celery, I could do. Carrots were two calorie dense. It's just, I felt like, you know, you don't worry when you're 26 years old. You don't worry about destroying your life because you're so young, right? So you always. I thought to myself that this was going to be a temporary thing until I lost some weight. And I mean, all the diets in that age, in that era, Atkins, south beach, they were all fucked up, right? I mean, like, Atkins was, like, eating this, like, just, like, bars full of chemicals that had, like, no carbs in them. And people were doing the craziest fucking diets. Everyone was on Dexatrim, people were on fen phen. So it was like, you know, what's so bad about not eating, right? At least I'm not putting chemicals in my body. And so I really rationalized it. But it got to the point where when I went to eat something, it was so loaded, it was like, I can do better than this, and if I eat this, then I can't eat something later. And I could eat something lighter than this. So I would. It was hard for me to actually eat something without investigating everything around and making sure it was the lightest option. Grilled chicken was just too heavy. It was not necessary.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. Because I was just trying to figure out what the thought process was.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. The thought process had less to do with food and more to do with mental illness.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. Yeah. So when you're going through all of, you know, trying to get pregnant and eventually go to the ivf. Go through ivf. You got pregnant on the. The first time. You got pregnant first time on the first try. Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

And you wrote in here that. And this is sort of switching gears a little bit. But you said a woman goes through IVF alone, you take the shots alone. You feel the physical pain alone, you fight the fears and demons alone. And if you have the misfortune to have most likely caused your own infertility, you feel the crushing guilt all alone. And I have never had to go through ivf, so I can't understand, like, the pain. I can empathize, but what was that like on top of dealing with everything that you were dealing with, with your decision?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It was really scary because I. I knew from a very young age that I wanted to be a mom and my husband really wanted to be a dad. And I felt. It was the first time I really felt like that I. Something up for somebody else with my eating disorder, and that, like, not only did I fuck up my husband potentially becoming a father, but, like, all these future lives that I wanted to bring into the world were now, like, in jeopardy because I couldn't eat, you know? So I. I felt like for the first time, this was bigger than just me.

[Kale Lowry]

Right. Did you have a lot of support going through ivf? Did you know anyone else that was going through ivf?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I didn't know anybody else going through it, and I didn't to want. Want to talk about it to anyone else because I was nervous that people would connect it to my eating disorder. And I didn't want to talk about my eating disorder ever to anybody because I was scared they would make me stop.

[Kale Lowry]

Do you think that people talked about ivf? I don't want to say back then because it wasn't that long ago.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It was a long time ago. It was 17. It was 18 years ago.

[Kale Lowry]

Do you think that people talked about it as openly as they do now.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Nope. I think everything now is so much more open because of social media.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

There really. There really wasn't that much social media back then. So. No, now everything is right.

[Kale Lowry]

So, you know, you're struggling with disordered eating, mental illness in that way, and then you're now going through IVF with your. Your husband, and you're sort of having to deal with these two things with no real support outside of your husband.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, but I was very headstrong and also mentally ill. So in my own head was a different universe where I just had to get through things. Things and then move on. And I knew eventually I would get through. I would get through whatever phase I was in. You know, I. My doctors put me at ease. They said, they said, you know, you're a good candidate for ivf. It should work. Because I guess the issues that I caused with being anorexic were not impacted by, like, IVF treatment puts the, you know, puts the fertilized embryo right into your. Your fallopian tube. Right.

[Kale Lowry]

So did it affect the quality of your eggs or. That's just. You talked about having low quality. So I just didn't know if the anorexia was a contributing factor to that or if that was just by nature.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So, I mean, I think when you destroy your body the way that I did, by the time I went for my second round of ivf, and, you know, that took four rounds.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

To get pregnant again, I had no estrogen left in my body, so I couldn't get any levels up to anything close to. To keep, like a pregnancy going. So I went on hormone replacement at, what, 31 years old. I've been wearing an estrogen patch since I'm 31. So. For 18 years you've been wearing estrogen patch on my butt. Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, I had. I have no estrogen in my body to this day. Day. Yeah. Because. And. And I was. I was very, like, high risk osteoporosis. Oh. Yeah. I. Oh. The number of health things that I messed up in my body from anorexia. 18 years of anorexia. Terrible. I have. I had a heart condition called bradycardia, where it was. My heart was struggling, so my resting heart rate was in the 30s, like sometimes 40. And it was. And it's supposed to be in the 60s. I couldn't. My heart just didn't want to beat fast because it didn't have enough muscle to beat fast. And everything in My body was trying to conserve. So because I had no calories, I was really eating nothing.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And so all of these. All of these organ functions were not functioning in my body. I had a lot of hormones that weren't functioning. I had. My lips would turn blue. If I remember reading anything under 60 degrees, my lips would turn blue. I was always in a heavy coat, and doctors never stopped me. So I rationalized that if doctors aren't saying anything, I'm fine with the pregnancy. I mean, like, I just, like, created such bad conditions for getting pregnant that, yeah, of course, I think it contributed to my egg quality.

[Kale Lowry]

But you. You know, you had your twins the first round of ivf the first time. They were mostly healthy. I know they had a short NICU stay, which, you know, overall, very healthy.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They were born early, but they were healthy. Thank God. Yeah, but I don't know what my eating habits contributed to them. I ate more when I was pregnant, but. But I did it very mathematically. I went to a prenatal nutritionist. I said, tell me the minimum amounts that I need to eat. And she said to me, she was like, you know, you have to feed yourself, too. I said, you tell me what is going to keep my twins alive and healthy.

[Kale Lowry]

Right?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Don't worry about me. I'm good. And basically, I had a chart, and I ate at the very minimum levels of that chart. And then I had no guilt.

[Kale Lowry]

And did your husband ever say anything to you during that time?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, because the. The time that he tried to say something to me, I jumped down his throat. And, you know, again, we were in our, you know, early 30s. I think he thought, like. Like, it's a phase and I'll get past it. And he never knew any different. I became anorexic a few months before I met him, so he never knew anything different.

[Kale Lowry]

So when you get pregnant the second time, you went through four rounds of ivf. Sort of a similar situation with the first set of twins, where they stopped growing at a certain point. C section early. And I think. Was that the time that four months later you had lost all your weight, or is that the first.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

The first ones. I lost all the weight so quickly, I couldn't. Like I say in the book, like, the way some people miss, like, wine or sushi, that's the way I miss starving myself. Like, I hated. I couldn't look at myself pregnant and see anything but ugly. Like, my stomach, I thought was so ugly, and every stretch mark, I thought was so ugly. And I. I couldn't wait to starve again. I really couldn't. Which sounds so crazy because now it's like my worst nightmare.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I. My second time I just couldn't lose the weight. I mean I lost most of it but I just could not. I couldn't lose it fast and it drove me crazy.

[C]

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[Kale Lowry]

And so then what?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I did get a mommy makeover after my second set. I mean I just starved myself until I. Until I lost it all.

[Kale Lowry]

Enough.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

With it. But then does it really bring you true happiness? Oh no.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I mean I was still anorexic for another decade after that. You know, I went, I did a half assed attempt at recovery and I went to a dietitian and I it. Now here's the problem with just going to a dietitian to recover. First of all, any steps you're going to take to recover are great.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

However, I really think that your best chances are a dietitian and a therapist. Because I went to this dietitian and I said I need to eat more, but I don't want to gain more than two pounds. And at the time I was 90 pounds soaking wet. I was tiny. So I expected this person who has a, you know, a degree in food science. Right. To fix the issues in my head that were saying you can't eat, you don't have a right to eat, you're not entitled to eat. So she can't do that. That's not her training. Right. So unless you have that piece of it going also and somebody helping you fix that, you're not going to get past this, you know?

[Kale Lowry]

What was her reaction? I did. I remember reading the two pound scenario in. In the book, but what was her reaction when you said that?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

She tried being diplomatic about it, like, okay, I understand. Let's try this out and see. And I would say to her over and over again, what if I gain more? Will you help me? Will you help me? And she didn't want to help commit to helping me lose weight, which I think was one of the reasons why I was so scared to do anything more. And I think once I learned how to eat a little bit more without gaining weight, I was kind of like, I'm good. I'm not going back anymore. Yeah, yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

And then when you started filming the show and you had. You obviously have all of your kids. How does that play into counting your calories, restricting, doing all of that? Because I know you're hiding food and bringing it up on the table, but obviously your castmates had to have noticed.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And said things the first year. No, because I knew how to fake it, so I knew how to save. So I would just. If I knew I was going to a meal, I would just starve myself until the meal and then eat all my calories in one sitting. And, you know, the truth is that on these shows, for a number of reasons, a lot of people do not eat during the meals. You. It's. First of all, it's hard to speak with food in your mouth. You don't want a chance dropping the food on your clothing. Also, it doesn't look as elegant, you know, So I would go to these meals, and at the beginning I was like, oh, God, I'm gonna have to eat and prove it. And. And then I realized that no one was eating. And then, like, a lot of the times we would get in such heated. I mean, do you ever see a meal on Real Housewives? Four seconds into it, you're already fighting. So half the time I didn't even have to worry about it. I would take one bite. And like, I did have. Sometimes, though, my second season, I got caught because I just. There were too many meals where, like, we were expected to, like, sit and talk to each other. And I just didn't know how to eat, eat the food, so I just wouldn't.

[Kale Lowry]

And so what did. What did they say to you? What did the girl say to you?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So nobody said anything until this one pivotal scene where I was in it was I took everyone to my beach house and there was a breakfast scene and Melissa had cooked like a whole breakfast. And it was stuff that I would never touch. It was eggs and bacon and, you know, sliced avocado. And I decided. And usually I would have them put. I don't know how it works on Team mom, but like, did you guys travel at all? No. When we would travel, they would ask us what foods we wanted in the house.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So I would always make sure that there was. I gave them my specific yogurt that I liked.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And fruit. And I would eat yogurt and fruit because I knew the calories and it was comfortable.

[Kale Lowry]

You knew, right? Yep.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And there was no yogurt and fruit in the fridge that day. Like, I don't know if someone ate it or if they just didn't put it there because they wanted this to happen. I don't know. But if they plotted that, I don't know, who knows? I mean, it made for good tv because my only option was eating these chips that were on the counter and I thought no one would notice. And I ate the chips because they were like these, these pea snaps. And I knew the calorie count on the back. I just couldn't eat anything that I didn't know the calories of.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

For me, that was like a non starter. So I was like, I'm not really hungry. I'm just going to grab some of these. And that sent red flags up everywhere because everyone was eating a normal breakfast and I was sitting there eating like dehydrated pea protein chips. And after that, it became a talking point. And then I got called out on it that I don't eat, and I had like a nervous breakdown on air. And I kind of told a story and covered it up and. And I mean, I. I planned for that moment. I knew it might come. So I had all my stories lined up of what I would say, and after that it never came up again.

[Kale Lowry]

That's the most outrageous thing that I've ever heard. For people to weaponize something so personal and. And be so calculated about it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yes and no. I mean, I did put myself on a reality show with a secret.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. Yes.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I mean, I don't know that production didn't put the food in there.

[Kale Lowry]

Of course not. But to. To create a moment. And, and here's the thing. Like, you know, we've both been on reality tv, right? Like, I would always tell my producers, I'm happy to give you. The drama you want, you just have to plan it with me. Like, I want to plan. I want to be a part of the planning. I don't want to be caught off guard and blindsided. I will literally give you what you want.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Housewives is all about being caught off guard and blindsided for sure. And that's not even a bad thing. Like, I don't even think I'm burning a virtue, probably. Like, that's what.

[Kale Lowry]

I don't want to put you in a position.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I know. No, I would never. But that's what it is. And that's part of the thrill of it is, like, getting caught. Like, you catch your castmate doing something.

[Kale Lowry]

I. Yeah, I just. I have mixed feelings about it because I just knowing that that is, like, so personal to you.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I will say, yes, I agree. And I think that is, you know, more on my castmates than it is on production. What I will say is that when I did choose to recover and I. I called the producers and I said, I would like my story this season to be real recovery, and I want you to document it. They were all in. They did a lot of work for me. They found they did everything to get me in the doors at Renfrew, which was the Eden Disorder recovery center that I started at, and they really did help me. Now, I do think that that's the reason I got demoted was not because. I mean, the season before I got demoted was one of the best seasons that anyone on Jersey has ever had. Right. Like, I had, people said it was the most real storyline that they've ever seen someone really go through. So I think that saying on camera that stress from the fighting had made me my sickest and brought me to my rock bottom. And then the intake counselor at the eating disorder center saying that I was on the verge of a heart attack. I think all of that combined made them. Now, they've never told me this, but I think all of that combined was a big legal issue for Barlow for sure, and I understand that.

[Kale Lowry]

But they would bring you back, Shirley, now, Right, because you're in recovery.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. I think I. I have kind of made it clear that I enjoy the friend role. My. See, this is difficult for people to understand because they think that they use the word friend as, like, a, you know, a derogatory term. My sons, at 17 years old would love nothing less than a camera in their face right now. Right. So I. If I got asked to go back full time, I don't even know that I could, because they don't. It's not for them.

[Kale Lowry]

Right. My son feels that, well, he likes to pick and choose. And so I get. I think that's.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And.

[Kale Lowry]

And that's their right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yes.

[Kale Lowry]

You know, I went back, I made a cameo on Teen mom and loved being the friend. Friend. I loved that the story wasn't about me. And I think you probably.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I just wish it wasn't, like, derogatory. Like, people always like, shut up, friend. And I'm like, wait a second. Like, I'm still, like, there, and, like, all the doors are still open for me. Like, I don't. I don't know. Who knows? But would I go back full time? That would be. That would put me in a position because I had a lot of fun with it. And I do credit the show with helping me recover.

[Kale Lowry]

For sure. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that's.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

That's.

[Kale Lowry]

That's really nice. I. I will say that despite some of the reality experiences that, you know, you and I may have had or other castmates and things, it does contribute to some of the troubles, I would say, like, in our lives or at least be, you know, just a contributing factor. But I. I also have seen production on Teen mom be helpful when cast is ready for treatment, but they have to ask for it. We have to. They're never going to offer it. It until the cast member asks for it. Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Because I think that's also a legal issue.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Suffering.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. So they can't just come to. I don't know this for sure. I'm not in law.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I don't think that. I think that there's some liability in trying to help somebody, you know, fix a health problem and then, like, not following through. I don't. I don't know how deeply they want to get involved with that.

[Kale Lowry]

Right. So if a cast member is like, hey, I need to go to treatment or I need to do this, they'll help you, then.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They'll help you. Yeah. But I think initiating the process might. Might encounter some liability.

[Kale Lowry]

Do you feel like nothing like, looking back. Right. Hindsight is always 2020. Do you feel like, looking back, nothing would have gotten you into treatment or recovery sooner? Do you feel like this is how it had to go and you had to decide when you were ready?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Absolutely. So I. I really feel like that's one of the sad parts about this. Like, unless you're a child, no one can force you into. Into treatment. So having anorexia as an adult, and I developed it pretty late in life, and I carried it into really late in life, and it's hard because you get so stuck in your ways and you get comfortable and you get scared of change and the fact that no one can force you to recover. I do feel like it had to go like this. And I also. It was a lot for me. There was a lot riding on staying thin. It was my measure of success. It was also my identity. It was. It made me feel special. I knew that if I walked into a room before the housewives, I felt like if I walked into a room, there was really nothing about me that was special, and this was mental illness. I'm not saying that's true. But if I walked into that room and I was the thinnest person in that room, everyone was going to notice me because that made me special. So. And that was part of my warped way of thinking, but I didn't really feel like anything about my life was that fat. Fantastic. And then when I was on the show, I was like, well, this makes me special. And then I was like, but I don't want to be the special person who got fat. So now I have to keep going. There was always a reason why I had to keep going, and always a reason why being thin made me special. And I really had to untangle all of that, like, separate my identity from the size of my body in order to recover.

[Kale Lowry]

When you started recovery and treatment, until you started to finally be comfortable with food and starting to gain weight, what was. What was the timeline there, do you think?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It was so weird, and it's funny you asked that, because I guess there's sort of like a. A trajectory that a lot of people follow with weight gain in recovery. So I went from eating nothing to really eating. Not overeating, but eating pretty normally quickly. And then I got spooked, and then I backtracked and. Because at the beginning, the first, like, two months, I didn't gain anything. First, like, four months, I didn't really gain anything. I remember I started it all in, like, August, and then in December, we went to Miami, and I was in a lot of the same clothes, and I was like, this is great. I'm eating everything. And, like, not eating everything, but, like, I'm really eating normally. And, like. Like, I haven't gained anything. And then, like, all of a sudden, from January to March, I must have gained. I didn't get on scales. I must have gained.

[Kale Lowry]

Probably a better idea because, I mean, even the healthiest person getting on skills can be.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, scary. I gained so much weight. I don't. Nothing fit me at all. I was in like all sweats. I felt awful about myself. I was second guessing everything. It was really hard. I backtracked a lot. I stopped eating a lot of the things I was eating. It took me a long time to get comfortable with food. Really long time. Not going on the scale is a great idea for me because then you don't. You can't hate a number that you don't know. Right. But I'm also at the point now where I'm not fully recovered. I'm like 80%. I do still get nervous about gaining a lot of weight, which I think is due to the fact that everyone's on Ozempic. So back to your question about would the show have me back? I'm like, the hell. I have like the healthiest relationship with food on my whole show because everyone's on diet drugs now. No one's even eating anyone anymore. So I. Not everyone, but, like, at least half my cast is on diet drugs. So in terms of health, there's no liability issues anymore. It took me a long time to really get comfortable with eating.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, I can imagine.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. And then people. That one scene that I said at the end of the book where I went to dinner and one of the husbands guessed my weight and. And said a number that just set me off and I really had to go home and think about, like, what the does a number mean?

[Kale Lowry]

Who decided that that was a good idea for him to do that and he decided.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I won't say who it is, but people know why.

[Kale Lowry]

Do men feel like they know who this person is? No. Yeah, of course. But why do people feel like they should do that?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I don't know any other. Like, I cannot imagine my husband guessing someone's weight. Like, I think it takes a. I.

[Kale Lowry]

Don'T even think, like anybody I've ever been with has even thought about that. It's just not something that is.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I don't know if he thought he was complimenting me or what, but that number in my head was so triggering for me. I mean, I went home and I was like, oh, my God, I'm 140. I'm 140. Like, that's a number. Like when I met my husband and I just started being anorexic. I was 140 and like, I was hysterical.

[Kale Lowry]

I can imagine.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. And then I. And then I had to realize, you know, it's a lot of self talk. I had to realize, like, I. My body looks the same as it did before I went out to dinner. No matter what this person says, that number Is like, it doesn't change my body now. I don't care. Like you told me I weighed 300 pounds. I don't care. I know who I am. I know what my body is. I know that weight fluctuates. You know, I know some days my clothes are tight, and then the next day they're loose, you know, I know that's just how bodies work, you know?

[Kale Lowry]

And do you think that if your daughter ever had questions, you would tell her the same thing?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I try to talk to my bo. My. My daughter a lot about body size and how fun it is to, you know, eat food and try different foods and have much fun. I don't hide my eating disorder from them. I. I do try to make a show of how much I enjoy eating now and how also that I do exercise and that you need to do both and that. And I. I do make comments from time to time, so they know how horrible it was to live with an eating disorder. One other thing. I messed up. And I don't talk about this in my book, but I did. I was, for a period of time, addicted to laxatives also, which is not glamorous. And I didn't talk about it in the book. It was one of those judgment calls I made.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I feel like it does. That is something that affects a lot of. And it screwed me up for a long time. I'm great now, but to the point where I'm the only person. When I went for my colonoscopy, my doctor said I was, like, the only person that he knows that the prep didn't work for. Like, everybody shits their brains out and I just couldn't go to the bathroom at all.

[Kale Lowry]

And you just didn't want to put it in there. You felt like it was.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah, that's. I just. I didn't.

[Kale Lowry]

I shit my pants regularly. So I was just wondering.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I don't need to take colonoscopy prep. Like, my. My bowels were just so up from everything, like, head to toe. I destroyed my body with anorexia. Absolutely destroyed it. Which is not something you think about.

[Kale Lowry]

Well, I was just about to say, you don't know until it's too late.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You think about. You think about all the glamorous parts of being thin. I thought about how wonderful it would be for me to tuck my shirt in and not have, like, a mouth, massive stomach hanging over you. Don't think about all the ways that you're absolutely destroying your life and the lives around You.

[Kale Lowry]

I never thought of half of the things. I mean, laxative, never. That never crossed my mind for. I've thought about eating tapeworms.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, really?

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. Is it tapeworms?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

I thought about eating the parasites.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Eating parasites? Yeah. I mean, you'll do anything. You get so desperate, so desperate to be thin, and then it's hard because, like, everyone's reinforcing how great you look.

[Kale Lowry]

Look, right, Absolutely. And what's so hard is, like, when people hear my story, they're like, if you put that amount of work into eating right and going to the gym, you wouldn't have to do this. But mental illness doesn't allow you to think that way.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, of course not. And by the way, that doesn't work for everybody, like, going to the gym.

[Kale Lowry]

I have pcos, so I need help losing weight. It's not something that I've ever, even from a small child, been able to just do on my own or just exercise, and I'm gonna lose weight. Like, that's not. I could eat right and go to the gym, and I still need help. So I think when people don't understand that, and even doctors don't, just don't understand that, like, if they're not versed in PCOS or, you know, having what it. High cortisol or high testosterone in women, like, they're not thinking about all of those things. If they're not super familiar with it, it's really hard.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I mean, the way that society reinforces being thin as the ideal. I mean, I was so. I remember times when I used to. I used to go to the gym when I lived in the city before having kids, and I would run for 60 minutes and there was no alternative. And I would run at seven miles an hour for 60 minutes. And people would come over to me and be like, oh, my God, that's amazing. And you're like, do that. And I was like. What I really wanted to say was, like, it's fucking torture, and I don't give myself a choice. And my body hurts so bad. But I'd be like, oh, you know, I love running. You know, be like, oh, that's so great. That's amazing. You look so good.

[Kale Lowry]

Yep.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You know, and like this. I remember this just like elderly women that were from, like, a different era, they would just tell me, oh, you look so glamorous. Don't let anyone tell you you're too thin. This woman told me when she's like, don't let anyone tell you you're too thin. You're so glamorous people would die to be that thin. And then you're like, I am with your head. You know, you're like, well, like, if I go back, I'm gonna be a failure. Everyone's gonna say, oh, I knew she couldn't do it because she's really, like, meant to be fat, you know? And I never wanted to give that to anyone. There were just so many contributing factors. And I'm so grateful that I found my way out of it. And that's why I wrote the book, is because.

[Kale Lowry]

So glad you did.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I was so far gone. And I want people to know that, like, you can be so far gone and still completely make your way back.

[Kale Lowry]

And you did.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

And I know that everyone is so proud of you. And everyone that can connect to your story in any way is so proud of you.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Thank you. And I loved hearing your story.

[Kale Lowry]

It's. It's been rough. And I don't know if reality TV contributes to it. It, like, especially if you sort of already are suffering with mental illness or body image or anything like that, and then you're on reality TV on top of it, it sort of adds another layer, like another adding salt to the wound, sort of. Because you have more eyes on you. I don't know if you've ever experienced that.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I mean, I also think that they're part of the same thing. Like, you're looking for validation from something outside yourself. You're looking for people to tell you that you're doing great. Right. And whether that's because of the size of your body or because you're suddenly a TV personality, you're looking for. For something else, else bigger and better. Right. So it's all. It's all part of the same. I don't know many really confident, happy, settled people who would choose to expose their lives on reality tv.

[Kale Lowry]

So do you think reality TV is mental illness, then?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I don't think it contributes to it. I think that the people who would want to be a part of it are probably missing something in their lives.

[Kale Lowry]

Stop yelling at me, Jackie.

[C]

Stop yelling at me.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But I would still do it. So what does that say? What does that say about me? What's missing? I just got a little bit addicted to the fame, right?

[Kale Lowry]

A little bit. Because it's this love hate relationship. I hate what the trolls say. I hate how mean they are. But I can't stop. And I. My identity now is like, I don't feel relevant enough unless I'm on tv. So me actively seeking out, what am I Doing next on tv to stay relevant, because that is what I identify as success.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

So I think that once you're on tv, it changes, like, the trajectory of why you would go on. So at first you go on it because you're looking for that validation, and then you get a taste of the fame, and you're like, wait, I can open all these doors. And, like, I stand out in a room. Right? So, like, I know when I'm going away this week with my family, I know when I go to the airport, like, there's going to be a lot of people who want to take a picture with me. And for me, that's still kind of thrilling. Right. So the fact that. That I can keep that going.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Is somewhat exciting. So that's not. Because something's missing in my life now. I just. I got a taste of it and I like it, you know?

[Kale Lowry]

At least you're honest, though.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

I feel like so many people, but.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I feel okay not doing it anymore.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, of course.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Of course.

[Kale Lowry]

But maybe not me, though. Like, I'm actively, like, what am I? I have to keep going.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Are you still on tv?

[Kale Lowry]

No, I left three years ago by twice.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But you have this. So, like, you became the biggest book talker around. Right? Like, you are a success story. Like, you're amazing. Like, when I found out I was coming here, I, like, was jumping out of my skin.

[Kale Lowry]

Really? So, yeah, I don't think I've ever heard a better compliment than that.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, no. I said to my publicist at Simon and Schuster, I said, if there's any way in hell that I can talk to Calum, like, please. Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

I'm like, I don't think she knows who I am.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, are you out of your.

[Kale Lowry]

Did you ever watch Teen Mom?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

You did?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I watched when you were originally on it.

[Kale Lowry]

No way.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I didn't watch the later seasons, but yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Because nobody has cable anymore. Nobody has cable. Are. Are you able, slash, willing to talk about Real Housewives drama?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah, for sure.

[Kale Lowry]

I guess people know the drama with the Real Housewives, right?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. All right, so.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And it's also ever changing. Like, the person who I was fighting with the most that actually led me to. It's not her fault. It was like, the way I processed it all mentally is actually, like, probably my closest friend on the cast now. So, like, everything changes. So I think the drama is, like, you know, you should talk about it, like, in the overall.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. I'll just do reality TV questions in general. So you would Evan, have a rock solid marriage? Yes, And I love that for you because I feel like so many times in reality TV we see bits and pieces, but then it's like sort of not really what's going on on the other side.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah. And also, like a lot of marriages.

[Kale Lowry]

Crumble, especially under the microscope, I would say. But what advice would you have do, if any, for a relationship, in a marriage like that, to have a rock solid marriage like that?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You mean on reality tv? Just in general, I think what works really well for me and Evan is first of all, you have to love each other. You really have to have that love and respect for each other, but you have to let each other do, like, be themselves. Like if you're, if you go in and try to change. Like, I have a lot of quirky habits way beyond the eating stuff. Like, put the eating stuff aside. I'm quirky, I'm interesting, I'm weird. Right. And Evan lets me be me and I let him be him. He's got his weird habits also. And like we. Unless it's something dangerous or that impacts the kids, like, we give each other that space. He doesn't like to go out that much, and I love to go out. We let each other do our thing. You know, I think a lot of trust and a lot of. Of space is. Is very important. A lot of trust.

[Kale Lowry]

Trust is hard, I think specific for all couples. But also, especially when you're in the public eye, that can really test a marriage. And you have to like, trust that. That's not.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. Evan got very upset. I remember when we went to Ireland, somebody snapped a picture of me hugging a tourist and he said something to me. And so our faces were like. First of all, the last place I would cheat on my husband is in the streets of Dublin with 18 cameras on me. Right. So. But anyway, the way that the picture looked, it was like our faces were like real close to each other and we were like holding each other. He was like a kid.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And someone sent the picture to Evan and was like, this is what your wife is doing in Dublin. And he lost his fucking mind. And he got so, so upset. And I was like, you have to trust me like, that I am not cheating on you on the streets of Dublin, you know? And I think he realized, like, okay, like, this is silly and nothing's happening here with reality tv. Yeah, you really gotta trust.

[Kale Lowry]

It adds like another layer because with the attention also comes attention from other people and that will can ultimately add another layer.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And I'm also very friendly. Like, if you are a Fan. Like I'll give a hug dog. I, I like that I'm like a touchy feely person anyway.

[Kale Lowry]

So I mean so yeah, you just have to have that extra layer of trust.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. So I told you that I just had twins and I'm, I tell everyone that I love that I want them to experience twins and they're like please don't wish that on me. But they, you have to. And you have two sets of twins. I don't know how to explain to people what I mean.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's a, you know I, I would say for the first, for your childhood. I believe a happy childhood is. Forms the basis for the rest of your life.

[Kale Lowry]

I would agree.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Okay. So to have a built in playmate and built in best friend is so invaluable especially to someone like me that didn't have friends in high school which is really what made me high school made me very sick. High school. I was so lonely. To know that you, your child has that person that's always going to be their person no matter what is so invaluable. Like I can't explain how at peace it puts me as a mom. And even though like my 17 year old boys now they've gone in different directions, they're very different people, they are still connected like that and if something happens to one, it happens to the other. So I feel like that's such a gift to your children and contributes to a really happy childhood.

[Kale Lowry]

I am obsessed with my twins and want everyone to have them. So they're. They fight though they, they're toddlers and they like hit each other and they, but they also love each other so fiercely that I think not saying that my other, my other kids don't love each other and you know, they're siblings. But the twins, there's just something about their bonds that is so special.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

They did. Both sets of mine fought a lot. That does end.

[Kale Lowry]

It does.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah. For sure.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay. Especially boy girl. I worry because they're so polar opposite it.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yeah.

[Kale Lowry]

But yeah, I mean I hope everyone in this room has twins at some point.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

It's if they want children and, and it's two for the price of one. Right. I did not like being pregnant. So there you go.

[Kale Lowry]

I mean and you have, are your older boys, are they identical or fraternal?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, everything was fraternal because it was all ivf.

[Kale Lowry]

But you think with IVF you can still have identical?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Well, I think having identical is when you're eggs split, it's not a matter of putting into right okay.

[Kale Lowry]

But the. Did they put into.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

In.

[Kale Lowry]

They put into the first. Okay. I think now. And they typically don't, or it depends where you go. They won't put into.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Because, you know, twins is a riskier pregnancy. It's a high risk. And the reason they won't a lot of the time is because IVF clinics have to publish their numbers. And the more single pregnancies, the higher rate of live births. Right. So if they put in twins all the time, you'd get a lot of. Of disappearing twins. You'd get a lot of, you know that term. Right. Where one doesn't make it. You get a lot of, you know, twins have a higher risk of not making it, you know, so it brings their numbers down.

[Kale Lowry]

I do know that some, some places will still do more than one. At least where I went when I was gonna freeze my eggs in 20, I think like 20, 21 maybe. I think that was the year they, we talked about the whole process and they said that they would not when I was ready. They were never gonna put in more than one.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, wow.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. So I don't know if it's all of Delaware, but at least where I, where I went in Delaware, they weren't going to. Okay. You told the producers of the show that you wanted to talk about your eating disorder on the show, and you said this because you hoped it would hold you, hold you accountable.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Yes.

[Kale Lowry]

Looking back, I think we sort of talked about it already.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But do you think that I knew that if I came forward and said, I'm really sick and I've got to get over my eating disorder, I wasn't going to show all the people watching that I, that it was too hard.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

I would never do that. So I knew that if I was going to commit to putting this on the show, I was going to recover no matter what it took.

[Kale Lowry]

I mean, that takes a lot of self awareness too, to know and to be committed to that. Reality TV has its pros and cons, but sometimes there are good times, obviously. What was your favorite moment that you can remember about filming Real Housewives?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

The first few years of it were really fun. I think I loved my kids birthday party in the driveway. It was a beautiful day. The kids were so young, the ones that just turned 17. It was their 11th birthday and we just had a really fun party and half the cast was there. A lot of my real life friends were there. Everyone was in a good mood. I was close with the producers and like, I got to, I got to capture my kid's Entire birthday party on camera. And I just, I just remember feeling like, this ain't so bad. Yeah. You know.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. There are definitely glimmers of, like, where you're just so thankful. I feel like, you know, we saw a lot of highs and lows, you know, with your friendships on the show. But how does that translate into real life? Like, when you have drama on the show with someone, is it very real in real life or did it sort of of. What's the word? Dissipate.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, it is so real in real life. Well, it depends. The problem with New Jersey is that people think take things too far in real life. It's like, if we have a fight on the show when filming is done. Leave me alone. You know, I, I. There. There was a certain cast member who went on, like, a rampage tour of badmouthing me on, like, every post show. Yeah. And, like, I was just like, leave me alone already.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah. Like, at that point, it's like, this is for tv. Like, let's just like, every time I.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Turn on the intern, I turn on Instagram, turn on the Internet. You see what happens when you get 50. This is how I know I'm fucking old. That's something my mother would say. Every time I turn on Instagram, it'll be like another be like, my floating head with, like, headline about, like, what this person said about me. And I was just like, that's the parts that suck.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

You know, because I'm not even getting paid for it, you know.

[Kale Lowry]

Right.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And I have to watch everyone trash. And then you read the comments, and.

[Kale Lowry]

That'S the worst thing that we can do. I hate reading comments. I won't even look because at this point, I will go down a rabbit hole of comments. And they're worse. They're worse than the actual headline.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No, I know. But then I'll read the comments on, like, other people's articles, and they're just as bad. So, like, I think everyone get. There's very few people on reality tv. There are some that, like, everyone loves. Like, I don't think I've ever seen, like, a thing blasting Paige to Sorbo. Right. Yeah, everyone loves her. And I don't watch her show, but, like, it seems like she is doing something very right. But most people get the shit beat out of them.

[Kale Lowry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say I agree with that. I would definitely agree with that. Well, I think everyone can get your book from Barnes and Noble, Amazon, anywhere you can buy your books. And is there anything else that you want to plug right now?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

No. But also I recorded the audible myself so you could listen to it.

[Kale Lowry]

Everyone in the book absolutely loves when people narrate their own books. Yeah.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

And I loved narrating.

[Kale Lowry]

Will you narrate your novel?

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, I'm so excited for the novel. When the novel comes out, I'm gonna come back.

[Kale Lowry]

Okay, perfect.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

But what else am I promoting right now? I do a lot of. I love talking about eating disorders and recovery and, like, anyone could reach out to me at any time. I'll answer you, but no. Just look for me on Instagram, Jackie Goldschneider and buy my book. You'll love it. It's not just about eating disorders, really. Like a story about. About kind of losing yourself, especially in mental illness and finding your way back, clawing your way back.

[Kale Lowry]

Awesome. Well, thank you. Coming up for coming on Barely Famous.

[Jackie Goldschneider]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Kale Lowry]

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