The Wild West Of Reality TV With Elle Bee

Summary

Barely Famous: "The Wild West Of Reality TV" with Elle Bee — Episode Summary

Podcast: Barely Famous
Host: Kail Lowry
Guest: Elle Bee (LB)
Release Date: March 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Barely Famous dives into the world of reality TV commentary with guest Elle Bee, an influential content creator and commentator known for her coverage of shows like Teen Mom and Mama June. Kail and LB discuss the origins and ethics of reality TV "tea pages," misinformation, drama between creators, and deep-dive into how reality TV parents handle (or mishandle) their children's earnings. In the second half, they break down the controversy around Gypsy Rose Blanchard, discussing fact versus myth, and briefly touch on the Menendez brothers. The episode concludes with reflections on personal journeys, cycles of trauma, and the responsibilities creators have in shaping online narratives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Elle Bee's Journey Into Content Creation

• LB's Start as a Content Creator:

  • Inspired by being a stay-at-home mom and a longtime viewer of YouTube and Teen Mom.
  • Her first viral video (a commentary on Janelle and David from Teen Mom) netted her significant views and subscribers, leading her to focus on reality TV commentary.
  • “My video got, like, 1300 views. And they were like, what? No way. So I just kept doing it. And six years later... I have, like, my own studio.” (03:31, Elle Bee)

• Partnership with Her Husband:

  • He works on the backend while she appears on camera, comparing their dynamic to Trisha Paytas and Moses (03:45).

2. Navigating Legal and Ethical Boundaries in Commentary

• Responsible Reporting:

  • Elle stresses the importance of never stating rumors as facts and always clarifying sources to avoid legal trouble.
  • “I don’t state things as fact, and I don’t state it as a fact and then ‘say, but it’s my opinion,’ because I know that don’t fly.” (04:32, Elle Bee)
  • She rarely reaches out for information—“people just reach out to me.” (05:30)

• Viewers’ Realities vs. Home Life:

  • Both reflect on how reality stars are expected to show certain dramas online that they wouldn’t necessarily live daily.
  • “You guys think about their everyday home life, I’m sure they’re not making breakfast, talking about the adoption, you know...” (06:26, Elle Bee)

• Advice About Digital Footprints:

  • Kail underscores the risks of private messages and being misrepresented.
  • “Do not send a text that you don’t want to read on a witness stand.” (07:05, Kail)

3. Creator Drama, Jealousy & The "Wild West" of Tea Pages

• Intra-Creator Jealousy and Competition:

  • LB explains feuds often stem from jealousy over audience size and divergent opinions.
  • The explosion of T pages post-COVID/TikTok as a "wild, wild west" (14:51).
  • “If I want to watch a video about... I’ll watch ten videos about the same thing just to get different opinions.” (14:25, Elle Bee)

• T-Page Ruthlessness & Anonymity on Reddit:

  • Reddit allows users to be particularly vicious because of anonymity.
  • There's a divide between neutral recappers and creators who inject personal animus into their content, which feels odd to Kail as a subject of such analysis (16:00).

• Examples of Overblown Criticism:

  • Criticisms sometimes cross into petty or "mean girl" territory, like fashion policing (17:38, Elle Bee).

• Support Among Creators:

  • LB and fellow creator Ray remain friends despite differences of opinion, using those conversations to see different perspectives (18:36).

4. Misinformation & Fact-Checking in Reality TV Worlds

• Danger of Spreading Misinformation:
  • LB recalls clarifying false claims about a Teen Mom cast member losing custody due to drugs, urging more fact-checked commentary (21:40).
  • “Those are really crazy allegations to accuse somebody of if there is hard proof that that didn’t happen.” (21:49, Kail)

5. Reality TV and Money: Child Earnings, Parent Behavior, and Exploitation

• Teen Mom & Kids’ Payment Structure:

  • Kids get paid per season, not episode—a loophole used by MTV to save money.
  • “The up part is that the kids did not get paid episodic rates. They got paid for the season...” (24:17, Kail)
  • Parents never received direct bonuses for having children on the show. Custodial accounts were established, but implementation varied (26:18–28:27).

• LB & Mama June’s Mishandling of Kids’ Money:

  • Focus on how Mama June allegedly stole her daughters’ TV earnings.
  • Film location regulations (California) are the only reason some Coogan accounts were required.
  • “What everybody focused on is the fact that Mama June stole Honey Boo Boo’s money. She actually stole all her kids’ money...” (30:41, Elle Bee)
  • Discussion of the ethical and emotional weight of parents misusing their children’s money (32:17, Kail; 32:52, Elle Bee).

• Kail’s Own Approach:

  • Proud of investing her children’s TV money and never touching it herself, even during difficult times (34:18, Kail).
  • “I’ll work at McDonald’s again before I ever try... I can’t understand your kids.” (35:03, Kail)

6. The Gypsy Rose Blanchard Deep Dive

• Fascination & Mixed Feelings:

  • Both are fascinated by the case, but LB is not a fan of Gypsy, even while acknowledging the story’s complexity.

• The Facts versus The Myth:

  • Breakdown of Gypsy’s purported surgeries, actual medical conditions, and what is documented versus sensationalized.
  • “She told me on the podcast that she knew she could walk. She said that on the podcast. So, like, what are we upset about?” (43:03, Kail)
  • LB reveals many of the surgeries reported by Gypsy were either necessary or did not happen; medical records and FOIA files affirm this.

• On Dee Dee’s Crimes & Gypsy’s Role:

  • Both muse about the possibility that both Gypsy and Dee Dee's abusive behavior can be true, but discuss new evidence challenging much of the public narrative.
  • “After the murder... they went into the house… Like hardly any [medicine] was even opened. They were selling it on eBay.” (53:06, Elle Bee)

• Nick Godejohn's Fate:

  • Disparity in sentencing—Nick remains in prison (life), Gypsy is free after eight years.
  • Discussion of Nick’s low IQ, autism diagnosis, whether he’s fit for prison, and speculation about secrets he may still be keeping (54:18–56:16).
  • “I don’t know that jail, prison… is the right place for Nick.” (55:36, Kail)

• Memorable Moment:

  • LB shares how Gypsy pre-planned the murder, showing Nick where to stab Dee Dee (54:07).

7. Comparing Cases: The Menendez Brothers

• Similarities to Gypsy Rose’s Case:
  • Kail feels sympathy for the Menendez brothers, seeing parallels in their long incarceration and experiences of abuse (66:46–68:59).

8. Creator Responsibility & Narratives

• Drag vs. Nuance in Online Content:

  • Kail calls for a more well-rounded approach—criticize but also highlight good work and context (72:25–72:50).
  • LB admits focusing on negativity gets more traction and views, but she prefers to be fair even though her channel has grown slower than some (72:36–73:02).

• Toxicity and Trauma Cycles:

  • Both discuss formative trauma, family cycles, relationships, and the difficulty of breaking patterns, especially under public scrutiny.
  • Memorable, raw reflection by Kail on single motherhood and therapy:
    “I have to be in therapy almost longer than I’ve been doing this in order to figure it out.” (80:35, Kail) “I never want to come back after this. I’ll tell you that. I do not want—I’m done at 60, tapping out…” (82:52, Kail)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On creator competition:
  “Jealousy and difference of opinions, yes.” (14:22, Elle Bee)

• On Reddit’s anonymity:
  “That’s where you go when you really want to rip somebody to shreds.” (15:23, Elle Bee)

• On responsible reporting:
  “I try to be very careful on what I say.” (04:32, Elle Bee)

• On legally protecting digital communication:
  “Don’t send a text that you don’t want to read on a witness stand.” (07:05, Kail)

• On murky realities of reality TV payment:
  “Kids would only make money for one season, which is so, so crappy… they’re the reasons why we’re here in the first place.” (24:18, Kail)

• On creator ethics:
  “Say you hate my guts all day, but make sure you also cover the good.” (72:36, Kail Lowry)

• On struggles with changing family cycles:
  “I have to be in therapy almost longer than I’ve been doing this in order to figure it out.” (80:35, Kail)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Content | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:19 | LB explains how she got started in content creation | | 04:15 | LB and Kail discuss legal precautions in content creation | | 14:06 | Kail asks about “beef between creators” and rise of T pages | | 21:40 | LB describes clarifying misinformation about Teen Mom cast | | 24:17 | Kail explains Teen Mom children’s payments, parental access | | 32:17 | Kail reflects on parents stealing from reality TV kids | | 35:03 | Kail talks about her kids’ investment accounts | | 41:47 | Gypsy Rose deep-dive begins | | 47:36 | LB details Gypsy’s documented health history | | 54:07 | LB recounts Gypsy’s instructions to Nick pre-murder | | 66:46 | Discussion of the Menendez brothers vs. Gypsy Rose | | 72:25 | Kail advocates for balanced creator coverage | | 80:35 | Raw talk on cycles of trauma, personal growth, and therapy | | 83:06 | LB’s socials and closing remarks |

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Conclusion

This packed episode delivers a candid, critical look at the culture around reality TV commentary—from the ethical lines creators walk to the personal impact of public narrative. Kail and LB don’t shy away from complicated topics: the nuances of “cancel culture,” the nitty-gritty of reality TV finances, and headline-making true crime cases. The episode’s open, unfiltered exchanges will resonate with anyone wanting to understand how modern storytelling around reality TV is crafted online and the weight it carries for those in its crosshairs.

LB’s Socials:
@ELLEBEEOFFICIAL on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook

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This summary captures the episode’s raw, conversational tone, with careful attribution and context so that even non-listeners grasp the depth and breadth of topics explored.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to the show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale, and you're listening to Barely Famous. Are we rolling? Yeah. All right.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast. Today I have a guest who is a friend, but sometimes a foe.

[A]

I guess you can say that.

[B]

Lb, welcome to Barely Famous Podcast.

[A]

Thank you for having me, Kale.

[B]

I have a lot of questions in here, and before we get into the deep stuff, I want. I have a couple just, like, questions that I want to know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

How did you first get into content creating?

[A]

Okay, so I first got into it because I always, like, watched YouTube. Six kids. My youngest was 2 at the time, and my husband worked offshore, so it was a lot of day, 21 days at a time. I was by myself raising the kids. I just watched a lot of YouTube and I. Well, I started watching Teen mom, too, because I was a teen mom. So it came out when I had had my second son. Well, my second kid. My first son. But I got pregnant at 17, had my daughter at 18. I got pregnant the summer before my senior year. So I finished my senior year up early, had her, but then I had another kid by the time I was, like, 21. So the show came out at that

[B]

point where they say, how old are you?

[A]

38.

[B]

Oh, okay, so you're a little bit older than me. But that's the exact same story as me.

[A]

Really.

[B]

I had Lincoln before I was 21.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I just turned 21.

[A]

So you had your second by the time you were 21, too?

[B]

Yeah. 17.

[A]

You got pregnant. 16. Had Elliot at 17, right?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

So I got pregnant at 17, had mine at 18.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I had her a month after I turned 18. So it was pretty close.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But hurried up and finished out my senior year. Had plans to go to college, didn't work out. Whatever. I had to raise my baby, you know, because her dad, you know, he was doing his thing. So, yeah, when the show came on and I saw, like, the trailer for it or whatever, I was like, oh, my gosh, this looks so good. Like, I know this is going to resonate with me. And it did. So love the show. And then whenever I started watching a lot of YouTube, I was like, you know what? I could do that. Like, I could. I could sit in front of. I can talk to anybody. Okay. So I was like, I can sit for my phone and I can talk and I'll put it up. So I did. And the first video that I did on Janelle and David, I. I woke up, like, uploaded it, like, midnight, woke up the next day, and it had, like, it was like, 1300 views, which is nothing now. But before then, it was for me, for somebody that, like. Like, I was doing, like, little makeup things before that, because I like makeup, too. Not that I'm, like, great at it, but I liked it. And it would get, like, 60 views, 30 views, whatever. But I woke up the next morning and had, like, 1300 views, and I gained, like, 200 subscribers. And I was like, this is the lane I need to stay in. Clearly is talking about, like, reality tv, teen mom, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I, like, ran in there, like, told my kids. I was like, oh, my God. Like, my video got, like, 1300 views. And they were like, what? No way. So I just kept doing it. And six years later, I have, like, my own studio. Like, me and my husband are in this together, and I.

[B]

Shut up. He does it with you?

[A]

Yeah, he does it with me. I mean, he don't go on camera, but he does all my back end stuff. Yeah.

[B]

That's so funny. When I did Trisha Paytas, we went to her house and her studio, and her husband is on.

[A]

Moses does everything, you know?

[B]

So, like, if you can.

[A]

My thing is, like, if I can employ my husband, like, why not?

[B]

But so when your first video, I'm assuming was, like, sort of talking about Janelle or was like a recap of some sort.

[A]

It was kind of. So Janelle, her kids have been taken. CPS had taken her kids, and they were fighting to get custody back of her kids.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just me, like, kind of. Yeah, let's talk on crap, I guess

[B]

you could say me being nosy. What was your husband's reaction to that video? Because there are a ton of creators that say a lot of things and could potentially get themselves in trouble. And I always think, what does your husband think of this?

[A]

So my husband is super proud of me. He. He's like. I mean, he's always like, he's just super proud of me. But, I mean, he worries sometimes. I feel like if I was Ever sued, they wouldn't win. Because I, you know, I, first off, I don't state things as fact, and I don't state it as a fact and then say, but it's my opinion, because I know that don't fly. No, I've seen way too many people sued, so I know that I have to be very careful, you know, like. And you can say it's my opinion, but if you state it as a fact first, that's where it matters. And I know creators that do that. They'll be like, oh, well, they. This did happen, in my opinion, so they're just throwing that in there. But you've already stated as a fact, so that's what the judge is going to look at. So I try to be very careful on what I say. And if I have a source, I'll say I have a source. And I still, still try to say like, this is what the source told me, though. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

How do you get sources? Like, do people willing. Excuse me.

[A]

They just reach out to me.

[B]

You don't reach out to them very rarely.

[A]

So when I started this.

[B]

What have people reached out to you about me?

[A]

Oh, gosh, I'm so. No, like, I'm like, well, okay. Nobody's really. Okay. Nobody's really reached out to me about you. I think that's the thing with, like, reality tv, though, is especially like when you're. You're on a show Team mom, they want you to talk about baby daddies. Then you go on a Tik Tok Live or an Instagram. Instagram Live or Facebook Live, whatever. Most of the questions are going to be about the drama with your baby daddy. So then you're called on Tick tock talking about them. So then all the comments, like, they stay talking about this. Like your case, baby daddy's Kate and Taz case, the adoption, they say. And it's like, you guys think about their everyday home life. I'm sure they're not making breakfast, talking about the adoption, you know, talking about Chris or talking about this just is what we see because that's what we're supposed to see. And then when they go live, that's what everybody's asking them. And I've tried to take up for y' all in that sense because I'm like, dude, I've literally watched Tyler go live and he go live about something completely different. But, like, 90 of the comments are about Carly, Brandon, Teresa, the adoption. So then he just gets kind of pulled into talking about it. Yeah, he just Gets pulled.

[B]

It's not the. It's not the viewer's fault either. Right. Because they're curious.

[A]

I mean, they really want to know. Yeah.

[B]

And so when you originally. Originally reached out to me years and years and years ago, I was very apprehensive because I was like, I understand that. I didn't know what you were looking for and everything. I try to teach my kids this all the time. It's like, do not send a text that you know can be screenshotted.

[A]

Do not.

[B]

And my lawyer. So I tell my kids that, but my lawyer has also told me, don't send a text that you don't want to read on a witness stand. That's been her number one advice all these years. I didn't tell my kids that. Flashback to rewind back to my lawsuit with Brie. You know, she said something about Wap, and when she got deposed by my attorney, she had to answer to that and tell an attorney and a judge in a dis.

[A]

In a.

[B]

In a deposition what Wap was like, oh, wow. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, don't ever do that. And I made the mistake over the years of doing that. But, like, I teach my kids, like, whatever you say to somebody can be screenshotted and also use that.

[A]

A context, too.

[B]

Use out of context screenshotted. Now with AI, it's even more dangerous because you might not have ever said that in your whole life, and now you are sort of a target of people being able to spread stuff to get you canceled or whatever that looks like. You originally reached out to me. I didn't know if anything I said was going to be screenshot and passed around. I didn't know.

[A]

I understand that completely.

[B]

And also, I didn't. I don't. I don't. I was.

[A]

You were nice to me, though.

[B]

I. I think I was you nice to me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have always, I feel like, been mostly direct about anything in my life. I'll air out my own dirty laundry. I will say I cheated on so and so or I didn't cheat on so and so. I have really been pretty transparent about that stuff. So when people accuse me of not being honest about certain timelines and stuff, that doesn't make sense to me. But one of the things that I was afraid of was, like, if I tell you things and it, like, gets out, then I'm my own leak. And then I'm, like, kind of sneaky.

[A]

Well, there's, like, people that I know do that. Like, there's YouTubers that I know. And it's. I hate that.

[B]

Well, you asked me before we started recording, why don't you leak your own stuff to clarify? Yeah, and you're not the only person that has said that to me. There was another creator I talked to not that long ago, and she was like, kale, why don't you clarify that? And I said, even through a league,

[A]

like, you don't have to be the source, but I could just be like, there's a source said this.

[B]

They're not going to believe me anyway. So what is it?

[A]

If you say if, like, somebody credible, like, a T page that's credible, if they're, like, at a source, tell me this, it's more likely to be believed. And I get like, y'. All. Like, oh, it doesn't matter, you know, at the end of the day. And. But it will sometimes. Like, sometimes if the correct info can get put out, it will. People will see a different perspective of it. And, like, I feel like I've seen that with, like, Kate and Ty and, like, the adoption situation. Like, I feel like most of my audience were, like, kind of against Kate and Ty for a while, but I feel, like, through me, like, talking and really, like, kind of humanizing them and, like, giving them more information. I've seen, like, the tide shine. The tide kind of shift a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Which I'm not saying. Listen. And anytime Tyler tells me anything, he's always like, you can say, I said it. So they're not like.

[B]

But, you know, they're not doing it in a shady way.

[A]

No, but if it's something that you're like, you know, like, whatever.

[B]

So have my friends or my inner circle ever reached out to you?

[A]

No. No. No. The only thing I've ever been told about you is your fault number and that you were nice.

[B]

So do you get hate the same way I do for having all these kids and then, like, working or being on YouTube or being on social media?

[A]

I get no hate for having six kids.

[B]

They're all with one man.

[A]

They're with two men. Yeah. So my oldest two, I was with him from the time I was, like, 13. And we had our. Our last kid when I was 21, which we weren't together when I had him, but. And then my other four are by my husband. So. No, I don't get it. I don't know. I don't get hate. I mean, every once in a while, when there's, like, another creator that hates me, like, they might say something like, There was this point where there were two creators that really hated me and they would like talk crap about it.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

What is the beef between creators? Like, I know that there is now that T pages and gossip pages are, like, bigger over the last several years. Like, what is the beef when you guys are sort of reporting on the same shows or the same, you know, reality stars? Is it the difference of opinions?

[A]

Jealousy and difference of opinions, yes.

[B]

Jealousy of what, though?

[A]

A bigger following. Like, oh, if I'm covering the same thing. I know that's what it was for me in the beginning, which it didn't make sense to me because I'm like, I. If I'm gonna be interested in something, if I want to watch a video about, I don't know, I'll watch 10 videos about the same thing just to get different opinions or more information. So I always thought, like, oh, when I came on the same kill, though, when I came on the scene in 2018, was literally like four pages on YouTube that covered te mom.

[B]

No, that's literally what I was about to say. It feels like now with, like, I would say, probably around the time that Covid hit and Tick Tock really took off is where the T pages took off, because there was a little bit before that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's been a wild, wild west for the past at least five years. And I just never like, I knew people watched Teen mom and I, I am not a Reddit user. I have always stayed off Reddit. I do not get on Reddit. I don't. Like, that's always been like the T page really? Like, you go there and you ruthless. No. Why are they like that?

[A]

Because I think because nobody knows who they are, you know? No. Like, nobody's gonna get on a tick tock live and say some of the horrific things that they will say on Reddit where nobody knows who they are because they can't lose their job. Nobody's gonna hold them accountable for it. So that's where you go when you really want to rip somebody to shreds. Because nobody gonna. They're not gonna know that it's you that said it. So you can go there and say whatever.

[B]

I don't know how to use Reddit. Like the one time, I don't know that much either. It's. My stomach's growling. So sorry. I stay off of that. I don't get on there. I don't the. But the, the T pages now, I mean, some of them are kind of. Ruth are kind of ruthless.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like there are some fair creators who will talk about reality TV people or the shows, and they're more neutral and they kind of just recap and they're just like, they might throw in like a witty opinion here and there. And there are other creators who make it so personal, like it personally affects them. They act like they're personally affected by some of my decisions or some of the Real Housewives decisions or whoever else the Kardashians. Like, they are so emotionally invested and that feels really weird to me.

[A]

Oh, I would imagine from your standpoint, it probably is really weird to have somebody care that much about your life that seems just so mad about it.

[B]

Like, it's one thing to cover. It's like what the was Kale thinking? Like, Kale has lost her mind. She's dumb for this. Versus some of the things that they are so personally bothered. Like, truly deep to their core.

[A]

There are some things that I cover that I, I get like, passionate about, but it's things that like, involve children being like abused or something like that. I'll be passionate about that. Like David Easton in the situation with Janelle and her son. Like, I'm pretty passionate about that. And Janelle not leaving David until he cheated. Like, she stayed with him through all the other crap. So I'm passionate about that. But I don't know, because there's some stuff that, you know, people are like, there's. Oh, they want to get so mad because Caitlyn was shooting a podcast and she had makeup on and they're like, want to talk crap? Literally. It happens. Yes. Oh, yes. Like a whole video about, you know, Caitlyn looking a certain way on a podcast. And I'm like, that's a little too much for me. Like, you know, like, who cares how she looks? And too, I'm like, coming from women, like, we, we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't talk about how a woman sitting on a podcast looking, especially if you have children, because you're literally teaching children to bully other people. So I can understand getting passionate about. About some things. Some things I don't get it. And I don't know. And to me, because it's mean girl. It's just like a mean girl attitude.

[B]

Do creators ever come together to help each other in any way? Yeah, cuz I know, you know, Ray and I had Ray on the podcast and like you, I know you guys are, would you say, friends?

[A]

Yeah, we're friends. I'm friends with Ray.

[B]

Yeah. So how does that sort of impact? Because you guys are sort of covering the same things. And what happens if you guys have a differing opinion? You guys are friends, you have the same profession. But then maybe Ray's like, what the is Kale thinking? And you're trying to give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm just using myself as an example because I don't want to call anybody else out. But would that cause a rift between you guys or you don't really care, you kind of just let it be what it is?

[A]

No. So okay with me and Ray, like, we do have a different opinion about some things. We don't really talk about them very much. Like, I'll tell her like, oh, this is why. And she's like, okay, yeah, that makes sense though. She'll tell me. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that, that makes sense to me too. I mean, and two, in talking about our different opinions, we've actually, like, seen each other's side a little bit more too. But there's some people that. Yeah, and that's how the drama kind of started with her. Because me, I was cool with this other creator knowing that we had different opinions about the person. Yes, I knew we had different opinions. Like, she came on my. My channel and it was fine. And there was even while she was on my channel, somebody said like, oh, yalls next live y' all should talk about these people. And I said, oh, that would be interesting because we have different opinions. So I thought. And I think I might have even said it, like, I can tell you why I feel the way that I feel. You can tell me why you feel the way that you feel. And, you know, maybe we can understand each other's points a little bit more. So I literally was like, oh, that's what we'll have to do next. Next time I bring this person on. We got off and like, we talked on the phone and we were still cool. And I watched her content, but then I would see content where the person that I. The. The people that she has such an issue with, she was dragging creators that didn't have the same opinion. She was dragging creators. It was like, oh, if y' all want to kiss their butt, if y', all like. And I'm like, first off, like, in our. In our leash. Yes. I guess you could say, like. Like everybody knows, like, me and Ray are the two that don't go hard on Kate and Ty, that talk to Kate and Ty and that, I guess, see more their side. I don't know. I guess you could say that. So when there's a creator talking about creators kissing Kate and Ty's butt, we. We pretty much know who they're talking about. We know, like, oh, they're. Well, they're talking about us because what other creators out there defend Kate and I guess, in a sense, the way that we do? I guess. I don't know. So that's when I started having my issue with that creator because I'm like, I can sit on here all day long and talk about my opinion and know that another creator has a different opinion. And, like, I won't say anything. There has been one time that I did a video where I brought up a creator, but it was because that creator did a tick tock with false information and was. Was talking about it and was like, is this true, you guys? Because her chat told her this. And I was like, no, that's not true. Like, what your chat told you is not true. So I want to clarify this because you have a tick tock out now where people's gonna watch it and they may think this is true. And the creator says something like, I know it's probably true because y' all people ain't gonna leave me. Ain't gonna leave me down the wrong path. And I was like, no, they will, though.

[B]

They will.

[A]

They will lead you down the wrong path.

[B]

There was no doubt.

[A]

Kind of crazy Stuff. So, like, just because it's your chat, like, appreciate them for being your people, but people just repeat stuff that they've seen somewhere they've heard. They just repeat stuff. So I did do a video about that, but I made it abundantly clear, like, this is no hate towards that creator. I not. I just wanted to do this video to clarify.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the video was basically saying that this person did drugs and it lost custody of their kid. And that was never the fact. This person has never done drugs, so. And I never lost custody of your kids.

[B]

Spread misinformation like that, though. Those are really crazy allegations to accuse somebody of if there is hard proof that that didn't happen.

[A]

Right. There's never been anything. This person's been on Team Mom. I've never heard a rumor until the end. But yes, somebody, like, left a comment on Michi's page, like, oh, lost custody of her first son.

[B]

You know what? I actually did hear that.

[A]

That's not true, though. Oh, yeah. She never lost custody of her first

[B]

son aside from Teen mom, but not. Not excluding Teen Mom. What reality TV scenes or people live rent free in your head, if any. Well,

[A]

I mean, I could say, like, my Mama June stuff does really good. I would say, like, lives rent free because it's my job. I mean, you know, but mom, I forgot about her.

[B]

Do you cover Mama?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Did you cover when I, like, we had the beef on Tick Tock?

[A]

I don't know. Bring me up to speed. I don't know because I don't remember it. When was that? Because I've covered her for several years.

[B]

Maybe like last summer, then I'm sure I did.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

I don't remember. I, like, called Mama June out for something and it went viral and then she responded. You made a tick tock about her taking Honey Boo Boo's money?

[A]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I did cover that. Yes, I absolutely did. Yep.

[B]

Have you ever covered taking her kids money?

[A]

No, but. But that. I just thought about that the other day. Okay. Well, so many people was like, well, what about her money from mtv? And I was like, I hadn't thought about that. And I was like, well, maybe it's in a cougar account, but if not, I don't know. It's not because I spend all of it defending. I'm like, yeah, because this girl's getting so much hate. And I was like, y'. All. Like, it's not her. Well, I did do a video and I said, y', all, if she doesn't have the Money, it's not her fault. It's gonna be fault. You know, I said so at the end of the day, if you are going to direct anything about the situation, ask, don't, don't shade. Because if she doesn't have the money for it, that's not her fault.

[B]

Like I don't even know she had money.

[A]

Okay, so. No, I've never covered that. Just thought about it recently. Okay, so. So once you have a kid, I've heard that you get like a bonus for. No, you're not.

[B]

True.

[A]

Okay, but then they have to start paying the kid. I don't know, but they say that that's literally like a.

[B]

No. So if you have a child on the show, the child has to get paid. The parent does not. So if the child appears in the show, you have to start. They have to start an account and they put money into it for the season or whatever. The up part is that the kids did not get paid episodic rates. They got paid for the season, so.

[A]

Oh, so they just got paid like one lump sum for the season?

[B]

Yes. And the way that you know how certain seasons will be broken up into like A and B, that's how MTV/ whoever was their parent company got around paying us more and got around paying the kids more. So it would be technically two seasons, seven. But the kids would only make money for one season, which is so, so crappy up to me because they're the reasons why we're here in the first place.

[A]

I wondered why did they do that? Why did they do it A and B? And I just do season eight to get.

[B]

Avoid to get around paying us more. Because for every season we had an increase. So if it was considered one season, if they had a season with the option to increase, they did not have to pay us more. It was whatever it was set. But the kids only got one season of pay for two seasons. Or if you google it, I think it says like Teen Mom 2 went on for like 11 seasons. It was more like 15.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[B]

The parents do not get a bonus in any way, shape or form. The kids were supposed to be set up with a custodial account. To my knowledge, I don't believe it was a cougan account.

[A]

But it was like cougan isn't in all states. No, but I think custodial, custodial.

[B]

So that was the plan, was supposed to be that. Now MTV physically, like somebody, a representative from MTV physically went with me to the bank to do Elliot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When he was born.

[A]

Is that required? Like we have to go with you to set it up.

[B]

I don't want to speak for anybody else. That was my, that's what happened to me is that they physically went with me. We set up the account and with that account that we've set up, you, I could deposit more money into it, but I could never take money out the way that it was set up. I could not withdraw money from it. Got you Story about fast forward. I think like four years later I accident, I was going to the Bank MacArthur Road in Whitehall, Pennsylvania. I went to go deposit my work track because I worked all the way up until I had lincol. Went to go deposit my check and I deposited it into. Now mind you, I wasn't. I didn't have Lincoln yet. So I'm a young mom, right. And I have to pay rent. It was my first house, not my apartment, but my first like, like duplex house, like a townhouse. My rent was twelve hundred dollars. I accidentally deposited that twelve hundred dollars into Elliot's account.

[A]

You could not get out.

[B]

That I could not get out. And so.

[A]

You're welcome, Elliot.

[B]

Just another payment for my baby, right? I, I was so scared and terrified because I was like, how the am I going to pay rent at that time? You know what I mean? And after taxes, at the time, I think the first season of Teen mom, we made $10,000 before taxes. And so I think this was probably season two, three, something like that was very early on. So after taxes, I wasn't making a whole lot, and I still had to work full time, so I couldn't get it out.

[A]

Y' all were still, like, struggling? Pretty much, yeah.

[B]

So, like. Like, I definitely knew I could pay my bills, but, like, whatever extra money I had was to be determined.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I say all that to say that I think that some of the moms did not necessarily have, depending on their state, their county, whatever that looked like if someone went with them or not. I think some people were able to. I. I don't want to speak for anybody else, but I think that's how some people were able to spend their kids money.

[A]

It's so interesting because I have covered it in great detail with Mama June doing it, but never thought much about it, about the Teen mom and their kids.

[B]

Yeah, we don't get bonuses, just the kids. The kids would get paid if you had a. Had a child.

[A]

I know Caitlyn and Tyler were saying the other day that, like, all of their kids had.

[B]

Have.

[A]

He's like, they're sad. Like, they have accounts. They're good. And he said, even Carly, which he got hate for that. Which I'm like, okay. That's wild. I remember Amber saying that she went to bat for Matt Buyer to get paid. Also Kate and ties Butch. Like, him and April weren't getting paid.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And then he, like, threw a fit and was like, y' all are gonna pay us something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, because, like, we got people wanting our autograph and want pictures with us, and we're broke, you know, like, Like.

[B]

And I. I do agree that, you know, when Teen mom would want us to sit down and have a conversation with these friends or, like, always ask us if our friends were available. I mean, we're taking time out of their schedule and their day do need to be paid. So anyone. Obviously not someone that just sits down for one episode and then walks away. That's not. That shouldn't be the way it is. But if you're consistently filming, even if it doesn't make it to air, if you are consistently filming, you are taking money out of your time, your day, your whatever, you could be doing something else else. I would also fight for my friends to be paid because that's not fair to Them.

[A]

And a lot of they have families, and they're taking time from their family, too.

[B]

And they don't like filming. A lot of them don't like it because they're. I would talk to my friends and vent to my friends on a personal level when the cameras are not rolling. And I know they know how it played out, but now they have to pretend that they have no idea what's going on. And they got to ask me questions that I know I don't want them to ask me because I know how it's going to be edited down, right? So it became this, like, whole thing where. And then I got upset because I learned that just recently that Becky never got paid.

[C]

Paid.

[B]

Becky was on the show a lot. She never got paid a dime. And that's crazy, because I might just

[A]

assume that she did.

[B]

Bone Sister got paid, and she wasn't on the show that much. It was always me. Usually it was always me asking that for my friends to get paid because it was fair. But, like, I don't. I feel like I would have asked for her to be paid.

[A]

Maybe they said no, or maybe they just didn't go any further. They just didn't.

[B]

So. But Mama June, I don't know what the she was thinking.

[A]

Well, what's so crazy? What everybody focused on is the fact that Mama June stole Honey Boo Boo's money. She actually stole all her kids money from Honey Boo Boo because they all got paid. Like Pumpkin got paid. Jessica got paid. Anna, her daughter that passed away, got paid. And when Anna had her daughter, her daughter got paid. Caitlyn. And so it wasn't just Honey Boo Boo that she stole the money from, which, yes, Honey Boo Boo probably got paid more because.

[B]

So was it like when you say stole because it didn't go into an account that they had access to and she was able to access it or like.

[A]

Well, she didn't have a Coogan account for years. From my understanding. Honey Boo Boo, I don't think she had a Coogan account when they started the Mama June Show. Yes, when they started the Mama June show, they finally opened up the Coogan account for her, but she only put, like, 20 in. Because where they live, I don't think you have to do Coogan accounts, but she did Dancing with the Stars, which was filmed in, like, Los Angeles or something. So that. Where she filmed that, they were like, you have a. You have to have a Coogan account. So there was just two Dancing with the Stars. And there was one other thing that she did, the mass Singer. The masked singer. So just money from those two projects went into the.

[B]

Because it was in la.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

California requires you to pay your children.

[A]

So that's why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I mean really, Honey Boo Boo should be worth millions. I mean she had, she had the Honey Boo Boo box. I mean she had all come box. She had the subscription box.

[B]

The downside of that is like, like it's not worth. Unless you're suing out of principle, which I do. Yeah, it's not worth. It's not worth the funds. Like she, her suing her mom would get her nothing if her mom has no money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's what's so up about it. And like, whatever. Like I don't know what their relationship is, but it sucks. Like that sucks. I couldn't imagine my, you know, my kids growing up on TV and having this like weird life because I did this and then they have nothing to show for it. You know, like that's too.

[A]

When she's like, I need to go to college and I need money mom. And her mom's like, well, sorry. Sorry for you work. Like literally on the show. And now maybe this could be fake, I don't know. But on the show when she went to her mom and she was like, I have to have this much money for to go to college. Like, and it has to be turned in at this point. Her mom's like, well, we just can't hand everything to you. You got to figure it out.

[B]

And I'm like, hand everything to you? Honey Boo Boo handed it to you

[A]

and that's what Honey Boo Boo ended up saying. She said, I'm not asking for you to give me anything of yours. I want what was mine, you know? And I'm like, how does mama do not see this? You know, like, is it like, is this, this fake or is she really not getting. Is she not computing what she did it?

[B]

Do they still have a show now?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So in theory she could sue her mom and get something cuz she would get all those funds.

[A]

She literally, like I had her on

[B]

the podcast after all of this and I think she was like going to let it be gone.

[A]

Like let it just water did pay her like $30,000.

[B]

That's not enough.

[A]

No, it's nothing.

[B]

That's not enough.

[A]

It's nothing. Actually, I think they settled on that though. Like, like what they settled on, I can tell you, is so when she did the Masked Singer and Dance with the Stars, June only put like 20 into the Coogan account. So what they agreed on Was the other like 80 from both of those shows, which was like $30,000 or something like that. So she gave her that. Yeah, allegedly. That's what they say. I don't know.

[B]

I don't remember what the process was, but. So we don't. I moved banks, and there's not really a local bank of America branch around here. I don't remember what the process was for me to get the money moved for my kids. I somehow did, legally and with assistance from attorneys and financial advisor, whatever, was able to move the money into an investment account for it to make even more money.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's smart.

[B]

So all of my kids have their accounts through my financial advisor who does their investments. And for Elliot's money and for Lincoln's money, we did the split. So when they got money for each season, Joe controlled half of Elliot's and I controlled half. And then same for Javi, for me and for. Sorry. The same for me and Javi for Lincoln. And so when I find. When I moved Lincoln's money to my financial advisor and it made like a 24 return or something in like, the first year or something like that, I don't remember the exact number I had let Javi know. And so he then turned around and transferred the money fraud that he had to put into the investment with my financial advisor to help it grow as well.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, that's something that I'm kind of proud of for, like, not having a whole lot of financial literacy and, like, not being great with my funds, you know, very early on. I. That's something that I've always been proud of that, like, my kids money is still there. It's still growing. It's, you know, and. And I don't know, Like, I guess I don't. I'll work at McDonald's again before I ever try.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I can't understand your kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because one, they didn't ask to be here. They didn't ask to be on tv. They didn't ask for anything on social.

[A]

The whole world. Maybe not the whole world, but everybody knows them.

[B]

It's a global show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But so they're nationally known at the very least is like, it's not fair to them. The least I can do is leave them their money.

[A]

Right. Absolutely.

[B]

Like, I can't. It's. It's hard for me to understand the level of, like, need that mama June must have been in.

[A]

Well, her. She was an addict, so, I mean, she literally sold her house. She sold her.

[B]

That's even Hard for me to understand because my mom also has struggles and my mom's never asked me for a dime.

[A]

That's crazy too.

[B]

Like Susie has never asked me for a dime in all my life.

[A]

I guess that speaks, I mean, you know, does your mom. And I know you have your opinions. I do too. But I guess it speaks a little bit that at least she's never come to you for money. She's never trying to blackmail you. She's never tried to come to you for money. So I guess you can't give the woman many props, I guess. But I guess give her her props for that.

[B]

I do give her her props for that. Like I. All day. I mean, even before, you know, before I was on 16 and pregnant and teen mom, I worked damn near full time. As soon as I could, I worked as much as I could. I mean, I would make, you know, make my checks, a couple hundred dollars a week, every week. And even then she never asked me for money, you know, like my mom.

[A]

And she was an alcoholic too, right?

[B]

So she had other vices as well. So like it wasn't just that. And she never asked me for a dime.

[A]

That's very rare that you have a parent that struggles with addiction, that has a child that does well, that they're not coming to them and trying to get money from them.

[B]

Never has. I, I don't. I highly doubt she ever asked any of like, you know, Joe, she. I don't know if I ever talked about it. She lived with me and Joe for a little bit.

[A]

Your mom did?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Lived with. Yeah, it was like you lived with

[A]

Joe at his parents house.

[B]

Your mom stayed there as well.

[A]

Was she in the basement with y' all or.

[B]

I don't remember where she slept. It might have been the basement or it might have been the couch. I don't really rem. But it was, it was for a short time. It wasn't like a long time. It was like a couple weeks. Finding the one can feel impossible.

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[A]

what. What did Janet and what did. What did Joe's family think about your mom? I don't dare say.

[B]

Elliot and I just watched my 16 and pregnant episode for the first time the week of his birthday.

[A]

He never watched it. Oh, that's insane.

[B]

And so we watched it and there was the scene where we're at the counter and we're showing Janet and Eddie the furniture and my mom's boyfriend's calling, calling, calling. And she's like, I gotta go. I want to go. You know, I gotta go be with him. And I'm like, I don't understand. I'm your mom. Like you, I'm your daughter and you live with him. Like why you spend time with me.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And the conversation was really weird then and it was very weird to me now looking back. Was that like, I think Joe's dad said something along the lines of like not everything revolves around you or something?

[A]

No, yeah, I do remember that. And then something along those lines.

[B]

I don't really remember what Janet said, but Eddie was just like not everything revolves around you. Like she's got to have a life too or something like that. And I'm like, like what the actual are you talking about?

[A]

There must have been something happening there where he already had an issue with you.

[B]

Cuz but they never really had an issue with my mom. And what really pissed me off was that Janet would reach out to my mom or my mom would reach out to Janet, whichever way. Or maybe both ways, like behind my back essentially, like without me knowing to

[A]

discuss what I mean.

[B]

And I don't really. I can't remember if my mom reached out to Janet or Janet reached out to my mom while she was up. She was completely under the influence. Was at my mom's apartment that we ultimately got evicted out of and told my mom I was pregnant. That's not your place to tell.

[A]

Hold up. That's how your mom found out. Wait, when you were pregnant with Elliot. Elliot. So you didn't tell your mom you were pregnant?

[B]

There was suspicion cuz my mom had taken me to school one day. I lived that apartment lit was so close to the school that I. The high school that I went to. And if you watch back 16 and pregnant. It's like I'm from Nazareth, Pennsylvania. No, the. I'm not. I lived there for one year. I'm not from there. I don't claim that. I don't, don't. Do not resonate with Nazareth, Pennsylvania. I went there for one year. It was so close to the school that might. You don't get a busing system. You either had to walk or your parents had to drive you. And that particular morning my mom drove me and I said, you need to pull over. I'm about to throw up. And so my mom was like, are you pregnant? And I was like, no, but I was. I already knew I was. And my mom was up one day when I got home from school and Janet was at the table with my mom and my mom was. She was so I was just like, I. And I. That made me even more mad because one, you didn't have a place to tell her this, and two, you didn't need to tell her while she was up. Like, this isn't the time or the place.

[A]

I mean, if your mom would have been like, I guess you could say like a normal mom that wasn't an alcoholic or anything, I could understand her maybe going like, at your. I don't remember.

[B]

I don't know who reached out to who. And Janet may not have known at the time that my mom was up, but it was clear as day when she got in front of her face.

[A]

I mean, I'm trying to put myself in that position. I have an 18 year old son and I'm like, okay, if his girlfriend ended up pregnant, I still feel like I would allow her the opportunity to go tell her mom. And then I'll be like, when you tell her, I'm gonna need your mom to call.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We gotta figure things out 1000%.

[B]

If she already knew and I had a conversation with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Different story.

[A]

Yeah. But yeah, I don't think I would call. I don't think I would call her mom and be like, oh, so she's pregnant, we're gonna be grandparents. I would. I think I would be like, like, you've got to go tell her this.

[B]

And when you do, let me know.

[A]

And when you do, let me know. Yeah. And especially if she was an alcoholic, you know, I. Yeah. Probably be like, she'll find out later. She'll find out what? She finds out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know how we got on that subject, but I was going to talk about Gypsy Rose.

[A]

But we can talk about Gypsy Rose.

[B]

Why do you think she's so fascinating to the people oh, God. Are you still fascinated or do you not like her? Are you a fan? Are you not a fan?

[A]

I don't like her.

[B]

You don't?

[A]

No, I don't like her, but I'm fascinated by her. I mean, I, I literally last night was working, editing a video and I think I uploaded it like midnight. A video about, about Gypsy Rose. I think she's so fascinating because everybody believed her story. And even if you believe it or not, whatever, it's like, oh, this girl that was forced into a wheelchair or, or played the part, like, who the heck plays a part of staying in a wheelchair for that long, for 20 years?

[B]

Can we just like dissect that a little bit? Because I, I still to this day am not really understanding what parts of her story are true versus what's false because that. I'm having a hard time with that.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

With just what's true, what's false, what people are so up in arms about. If you could kindly break down for me what it is that's true and false because again, and I've said this on social media, but I went off of. I'm not a journalist, I'm an interviewer, and I went off of the documentaries and the book that was available to me at that time. I did not go digging into court records. That's not what I do.

[A]

They weren't available anyways.

[B]

When they weren't, they were not available. And even if they were, that's not really, I guess, moving forward, if I were to ever have that type of guest on again, I would do it. Now that I know. But at the time, I mean, we're, we're talking about the documentaries, the shows and the book that were out. She told me on the podcast that she knew she could walk. She said that on the podcast. So, like, what are we upset about?

[A]

Okay, so the lies. Oh, basically, she even I have a video of her or a recording of her when she was on Tick Tock the other day where she said she was not a part of the con, that it was strictly her mom, and that her mom was just like a effed up human being. Right? That she is like innocent in all of this. But she was 23 or 24 when she got arrested. You're not 24 sitting in a wheelchair. Be. I mean, be enforced to. You could leave, you know what I'm saying? Like, you could leave. But the narrative was that her mom was this just this horrible person who had much else done by proxy and enforced all these things and forced unnecessary surgeries that she didn't need, which is not true.

[C]

What?

[A]

Yeah, no, she needed the surgeries. So all of the surgeries. There's only, like, four confirmed surgeries in her medical records. Maybe five that she even had. So she didn't have. You know how she told you that she's had, like, 30 plus surgeries? She's been under anesthesia like, a hundred times. Moms.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, that is not true.

[B]

Is it possible that when Dee allegedly was moving and doing all the things that she. When she was telling people that her stuff was destroyed in a. Was it a hurricane?

[A]

Hurricane Katrina?

[B]

Is it possible that she really did have all those surgeries, but it was just whatever was.

[A]

No. So. Okay.

[B]

Because I watched. The only reason why I say that is because I watched a video yesterday of this woman on Tick Tock who was talking about how. How, first of all, she's in law school, and she's talking about how she got the meningitis vaccine five separate times because they originally gave it to her on ax by. By mistake. Denied ever doing it, then confirmed, oh, no, we did it. But we need to give you a couple more strands. They never re. Put any of that in her medical chart. So five years, five shots later, it was still not in her medical chart. And all the comments were like, we don't understand why you haven't sued yet. Like, you're literally in law school. Like, what is going on? Like, they just didn't put it in your records because they didn't want to be sued. Is it possible that they just didn't put certain records? Or, like, how does. I don't know how medical records work. So, like, if I were to move to a completely different state here right now, today, and I established care.

[A]

Give them consent to pull your records from here.

[B]

But what if I didn't?

[A]

Well, they didi did. Dee signed a form. It's in her records. And Gypsy signed it giving consent to her doctor. When she moved to Missouri. Gypsy was 14 when she left Louisiana. She wasn't 8, she wasn't 4. She was 14. So her doctor that she had in Louisiana was the same doctor who sent her to specialists because she had microdeletion, which caused, you know, issues sleeping. It caused issues with her swallowing. And all these things are, like, known things that happen with microdeletion. But she was. They didn't know that she had microdeletion. So she had these symptoms of microdeletion, and her mom was seeing this and needed answers. So, like, there's a video of Gypsy in, like, A cheerleading outfit. And she's at this little dance thing. All these kids, she's probably three, four, probably three, and all these little girls are around the same age, and they're cheering and they're dancing, and they have these adults, like, telling them what to do. And she's laying on the floor. And so basically that's what has been discovered is she complained a lot with, like, pain in her legs and her legs getting really tired. So she does have. She had hypotonic hypotonia, which is, like, weak muscles. That's in her medical records. So she did, like, have issues with her legs. She. Her legs would get tired. They tested her for muscular dystrophy, which was why muscular dystrophy was in her chart, because she was tested for it. And more than likely. So Didi had some sort of nursing license, maybe cna, I'm not sure. But more than likely, the doctor said, because they tested her for muscular dystrophy, like, maybe she has another type, maybe a rare form of muscular dystrophy. So maybe if Dee said muscular dystrophy, it may have come off as, like, she's got it. Maybe she may have some rare form of it. You know what I'm saying? But when you ask Gypsy, like, what all surgeries did you have? She only ever lists, like, the confirmed surgeries, and it's like, four. She never lists anything from. That's unknown. And it's things that she needed, like her eye surgery, her hearing aids, like, she.

[B]

Her. Her spit glands. What were the.

[A]

Yeah, her salivary glands. She had, like, two or maybe two or four removed. But you have, like, way more. She said her mom put ORA gel in her mouth to make her drool. So excessive drooling, I think, is also a symptom of micro deletion. But even if you put ORA gel in your mouth, you're not going to. You're not going to go into a doctor's office 10 minutes later and just be poor and drool. And they saw her several times on account of this, like, it's in her medical record. She was seen several times with the excessive drooling. She went like she had. She saw specialists over for these things. She did a barium swallowing test, and it was done under an X ray to view her throat as she swallows. And she was having trouble swallowing. So, like her feeding tube, she had lost a bunch of weight and she was struggling to eat. And so they did the barium swallowing test, and it showed that her muscles were not. Not like acting the way they were supposed to when she ate. So they put her on the feeding tube. She was in the hospital for a month being overseen by a feeding team. Okay, so this whole feeding tube, she didn't need it. She was in the hospital for a month. They were watching her. They did the barium swallowing test on her. She was complaining she wasn't eating much, she was losing weight. So they did the feeding tube and she was like, in a month she came back and she's gained weight. So it was necessary.

[B]

I know that at one point in one of the documentaries and it might have been a. The. I don't think it was in the book, I can't remember. But something about the doctor that later came forward and it might have been more than one doctor that said that they did report DE for one doctor. One doctor. And he had concerns of Munchausen by proxy.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Is it possible that both could be true, that Gypsy Rose did suffer trauma because of her mother having munch housing by proxy, and that Gypsy Rose also played into it?

[A]

It could definitely be true. But I can tell you from the records, like, okay, so when they moved to Missouri, like I said, Gypsy was 14. Her mom signed for her records. Now, her mom did say it's quite possible due to Hurricane Katrina, you might not be able to get her records. I don't know. But they got her records. Well, the doctor only requested the previous four years. So the doctor didn't even request her full file. He only requested. And this is in the records. The DD signed it, and he only got four years. He didn't request anything further than that. So why not request everything? You know what I'm saying? But you only request it four years. So it didn't. To me, it didn't seem like Diddy was trying to hide anything. If she gave here. Get her records. I don't care. And Gypsy saying, like, oh, like, they told the dentist, my teeth were crumbling. Take your child to the doctor, to the dentist. Like, teeth is crumbling. And see, if they just pull. Pull them all out. They're not going to. Yeah, so they will.

[B]

I thought that all the medication. Because I think. Don't. I'm not a doctor. Okay.

[A]

Neither am I. Let me just put that out there. So I'm.

[B]

I've heard that certain medications can affect your dental health.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, especially if you're getting, we'll say, I don't know, antibiotics, and then you don't brush your teeth after. Right. Like, well, it was sitting on the teeth all the time, and you're getting medicine all the time, and it's just sitting on your teeth. I would imagine that that would have

[A]

an effect on your teeth. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And. And so if you go back and you look at pictures of Gypsy before she had her teeth removed, they were horrific.

[B]

I mean, so what about her hair being shaved?

[A]

Okay, so they were able to find that she wanted to shave her head for a foundation. But there's also some evidence to support that she had cancer, too. Like, that she was taken cytoxin. She did eight rounds of cytoxin.

[B]

Okay, but. And I'm just playing devil's advocate, please do not crucify me on the Internet. Both can be true. True. She could have. Dee Dee could have had Munchausen by proxy. And over medicating or giving unnecessary drugs to Gypsy and Gypsy also played into it. I think both can be true.

[A]

Well, when they, after the murder happened and they went into the house, you know how she had that big medicine cabinet? Like hardly any, any of it was even opened. They were selling it on ebay.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, selling like the feeding tubes and different things on ebay. Like most of the medicine wasn't even open. So it wasn't even like she was taking most of the. Of it. So there's. I'm going to tell you guys, becca scoops on YouTube is a really good person to watch. Like, I've looked over her medical records. I've looked over.

[B]

Did you see the crime scene photos? Yes, I did too.

[A]

They're horrible.

[B]

They're horrendous.

[A]

They're so bad.

[B]

I, I've. Outside of like a viewing, I had never seen a dead body. They were horrendous.

[A]

She was nearly decapitated. And two, the video just came out again through the foyer files. This video was discovered again, but where she recorded herself going through the house and walking to her mom's bed, to her mom's side and like pointing and then doing this like. So she was showing Nick, like, here's where my mom's room is. Go to this side. She'll be laying here. Stab her right here.

[B]

And Gypsy did that?

[A]

Yes, Gypsy did that and sent that video to Nick. That was her showing him like the layout of the house. And this is where my mom will be and you come and stab her here. This was, you know. Yeah, that was what she sent.

[B]

Nick, what is your take on the fact that she was released and he is still in prison and it is so messed up. And he. Is it confirmed that he has autism?

[A]

Yes, it's confirmed he had low iq.

[B]

Okay, so Nick, it's confirmed that he had autism. There is obviously a spectrum from, you know, super high functioning all the way down to, you know, you can't function at all. Correct. You need to be non verbal, you need help. And there is a huge spectrum. So with that being said, did he have any other disabilities along with the autism diagnosis? He, you said he had a low

[A]

iq, he had a low IQ and autism. Not that I can think up off hand.

[B]

So what is the reasoning that he is still behind bars and she's released

[A]

like, because she took a plea deal and he was offered a plea deal twice. The same plea deal that she was offered. I know at least one time he was offered the same plea deal, but he, he said no.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I think this is just my opinion, because I think he thought that the evidence would show that she talked him into it.

[B]

But if he has a low IQ and he was able, like, I just don't know that you can leave it up to him. If he had a low iq, like, that's not really fair either. So I don't know that jail is actually doing anything for someone like that.

[A]

That's a lot of the issue. Like, Gypsy's like, oh, all you people wanted to defend. Want to defend Nick and think he should be out walking the streets. He. He's the one that. That did it. I'm like, I don't think anybody's really saying that they think he should be out walking the streets. They just think if he's spending the rest of his life in jail, you should too, because you talked him into doing it.

[B]

I just don't know that jail, prison. I don't know that prison is the right place for Nick.

[A]

I don't either. I think he probably should be in, like, a. A mental hospital maybe. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know enough about the law, but that seems like it would be more of, like, a. A fit for him. So how long is he in prison?

[A]

Prison life he will never get out

[B]

of him at all.

[A]

Yeah. There's a NPG Cornerstone YouTube channel that kind of advocates for him, and he's done, like, a couple videos that they put on their channel. But he said there's one secret from, like, that night that he will take to his grave. So I don't know who knows what that is. There's been a lot of people that speculate that Gypsy participated in the killing. Yeah. So who knows? Maybe one day he'll.

[B]

I wonder what would be the purpose of him taking that to the grave if he's in there for life? And I do remember him. Not him. I remember Gypsy Rose telling me that he wanted to R A P E Dee. Do we think that could be it?

[A]

I think. I do think he said that because in their videos back and forth, there was so much talk about it. Gypsy was always talking about them raping people and being into rape. And have you watched the videos that's come out about her? Oh, my goodness. Like, she's. I mean, there's literally videos of them talking. Her talking about them killing people and murdering and how she wasn't scared of the police and. And she is the one. So everybody that, like, defends Gypsy, they're like, he instructed her to say that out of all the police evidence that is that's come out. There is evidence that he, like, kind of scripted things, but it was not stuff like that. It was nothing. There's no script that's ever come out in the police files where he instructed her to say that it's only, like, talk about this today. Talk about what Damona wants to do. Talk about. It's not like, word for word, say X, Y and Z. And if you watch the video where she said it, she's telling him what she wants their life to look like. Like, she was like, I want us to get married and have kids. I want a son. I want a daughter. And we're going to have to teach them not to go out into the world and tell the world about our lifestyle, because I don't want us to get in trouble. They can't tell the world that we're. That they're half vampires because, you know, Nick was a vampire. And we're going to have to. I'm going to have to tell our daughter that, you know, you'll have to take her virginity. You'll be the one to take her virginity, because that's just the way that it has to go. So she said that, and then when that came out, people's like, well, he made it her. He was a thousand miles away and could not drive. The only way he ever got to where she was was because she sent money for a bus ticket for him. So I'm like, how did he force her to do that?

[B]

I'm speechless, because she. I do remember her on the podcast explicitly saying she said she broke up

[A]

with him, that she cussed him out. And, yeah, I've watched that clip, so

[B]

I honestly think, too, like, Gypsy. Gypsy had told me that he said those things, but I.

[A]

And on the podcast, when she said where you asked her, you were. You asked her about it, and she was like, yes. And when he said that, I called him every name under the sun. I broke up with him, and I wasn't talking to him, but he kept, like, reaching out and apologizing, apologizing and saying that was Victor or that was, like, his dark side and that he would never do that, that he would never allow that to happen. So I ultimately went back to him. So if you broke up with him for something that you thought was, like, horrific, then why would you turn around and say it in a video that. You know what I'm saying? That would be something that would be like, oh, oh, we can't never talk about this again because you broke up with me. So that's completely off the table.

[B]

I just feel like there's three sides, and I guess in this case, four sides.

[A]

Because we never know the truth.

[B]

Dee, Gypsy, Nick and the truth. Right, right. So four sides here. And I think that it's possible that a little bit of everything can be true.

[A]

It's very possible. I mean, I've spent hours digging through this stuff, and I don't know, it's just wild. It. I. I have several videos up, but like I said, into the Weeds podcast. It's a YouTube channel, and Becca Scoops, they are two channels that has literally done so much and uncovered so much that it just blows your mind.

[C]

Mind.

[A]

And then you see Gypsy over here living her life. She has a child. She, you know, got a reality TV show. She makes money, and the man that she literally convinced to kill her mom is sitting in jail. His mom died while he was in prison.

[B]

Oh, are you serious?

[A]

Yeah. His mom died of an overdose? Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's heart. I had chills.

[A]

So for me, I just feel like, if anything, what doesn't make sense to me, too, is all of Gypsy supporters and, like, her really close friends, they hate Nick, but they believe her story. So I'm like, if you. If you believe her story that her mom was, like, a horrible person that was forcing her to. In a wheelchair and be sick, why wouldn't you be? Like, well, maybe he did it the wrong way, but at least he freed her. You know what I'm saying? Like, at least he got her out of the situation.

[C]

Like, right.

[B]

Like, why would you hate.

[A]

Why would you hate him?

[B]

Right. Okay, I see what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah. To me, that doesn't make sense, but all of her supporters and her close friends bash him. They talk about how sick he is, and I'm like, sick? Gypsy was literally saying the exact same crap that he was saying, like, about being vampires and killing people. And there was going to be blood and gore, and she's like, oh, if a girl ever wants to sleep with you, like, I might let her sleep with you, but then I'm going to kill her, and there will be blood and there will be gore, and I will murder her.

[B]

So, yeah, for sure. That's the thing. It's like Gypsy probably played into the DD stuff. She probably played into the Nick stuff. Like, it just feels very like she's

[A]

been caught in so many lies, too. It's just like a. So many lies.

[B]

Again, playing devil's advocate. Is it lies or is it the years, like, were so far removed from those years? Is it. Is it Lies or is it. Okay, I've lost track of the timeline.

[A]

Well, I think it's lies, because she's like, I wasn't allowed to wear what I wanted to wear. But then you literally. Literally, like, there's videos of her, like, talking about picking this dress out, and, like, oh, she loved this. And my mom didn't allow me to paint my fingernails. But then there's literally pictures of her with fingernail polish on. And the night before the murder happened, she painted her and her mom's fingernails, or I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. And then you see these videos of her with makeup on. And she literally ordered stuff and had it sent to their house. All these lingerie. The lingerie. She was online. Oh, I wasn't allowed to have a phone. I wasn't allowed to have a laptop. Like, I was. If you watch the interrogation video, the detective asked her, like, were you allowed to have a phone or anything? She was like, no, my mom wouldn't. My mom said it was too dangerous for me to have. Then he's like, well, how did you. How did you meet Nicholas? Oh, on a dating app. She.

[B]

Well, she explained that on the podcast with me. She said that I know she got

[A]

a phone and, like, was hiding a phone or something.

[B]

She told me that, like, the lap. The computer, she would do it when her. Either her mom wasn't home or her mom was asleep. Like, she could verify. I mean, I listen to. Listen, I'm gonna be very careful.

[A]

She would switch tabs and, like, close the tabs out and, like, her. Yeah.

[B]

Delete her history and things like that. And, like, I was a kid once, I was doing the same thing, and, like, I wasn't even doing anything crazy. It was just, like, I wasn't allowed on the. My mom's computer, and I would do it when she wasn't home and lock it back up kind of thing. I. I guess I'm just struggling with the fact that, like, what she was getting out of all of this all the time. All this time. If at the point that she knew she could walk and at the point that she knew that her mom was maybe like. Like developing Munchausen by Proxy, because I do think that can be true. What was she. How was she benefiting in any way?

[A]

Well, she. She's met, like, a ton of celebrities, like country music stars. She met, like, some of the people from Star Wars. She's got. She had all these, like, donations rolling in. She got free movies to the tickets. Free tickets to the movies, like, once a week. Because everybody thought, like, oh, this poor helpless girl, you know, so she got a lot. She went to Disney.

[C]

I rem.

[A]

So I mean, she. And too, there's a video that came out in the FOIA files of when she revealed to Nick that she could actually walk. And she's like, I have to tell you something. I haven't been completely honest with you. And then she, like, backs up. She's like, I can walk. She's like, you're the only person besides one other person that knows this. So she says to Nicholas, she tells Nicholas that Dede didn't even know that she could walk, that she had been keeping that from her mom. And in the book, I think she may have mentioned something about that. But she said. Said in a surgery, she had a seizure that caused paralysis in her legs. But the doctors thought she was paralyzed, so she was given a wheelchair because the paralysis. And they didn't know, like, if it would go away or whatever. And she said it started going away and she got the feeling back in her legs. But she got a lot of attention from her mom and other people. So she decided to never tell her mom that she could walk.

[B]

But can't you tell from muscle?

[A]

Like, she did lose muscle mass. And on your show, you asked her, did you lose? And she said, no, but she did. It's in her medical records. It's in her medical record. She had weak muscles. She had a muscle biopsy. I mean, it's in her record. So she did have weak muscles in her legs.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know that I'll ever get over this. I'm. I'm definitely going to do my research. I will do my research moving forward because I would love, like, the next phase or maybe a different, different.

[A]

Have her back on Kale.

[B]

I don't know if she'll do it, but I'll try.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I will try either. But what I was going to say was, like, I would love in the future to be able to go into prisons and, like, interview inmates in prisons. That would be something that I would love to explore.

[A]

Try to interview Nicholas. That would be cool if you could interview Nicholas.

[B]

But, like, wouldn't he have done an interview already if he. If someone could get in there?

[A]

He'd done, like, 20, 20, like, years ago. He did. Yeah, like, years ago.

[B]

Yeah, I'll try. I'll do my best. But moving forward, I will do more digging, and I'm do those in a more journalistic stick way. But if everyone could just, like, not hate me for The Gypsy Rose thing, I was just doing my job.

[A]

And, too, I feel like nobody knew at that time, like most people believe,

[B]

but people are like, they were available. They were available. Where would I have looked? I am not, like, truly. Some of the people like you who run T pages who do things like this, you guys would know where to look and where to dig. I'm not. I don't know how to do all of that. Right. Like, that's not my mo. That's not how I operate. I don't know where to. I would be even looking. And if I'm not going to have this person on my podcast, what the am I doing all this research for? So, like, for me, it's like, what the am I going to do? How do you feel? This is the last question I'll ask you about Gypsy Rose or related to Gypsy Rose, because she's out and has been able to procreate and be with Ken and, you know, all the things Nick is still in. How do you feel about the Menendez brothers?

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Because I'm a big Menendez brothers fan. Not fan. I'm in support of them.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. I. I kind of go back and forth, like, because I haven't dug into them the way that I have Gypsy do it. So I'm still, like, on the fence. Like, okay. When I think about the possibility of, like, okay, they were really abused and they were living in a nightmare, I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, they blew their parents to smithereens. You know what I'm saying? But Gypsy's out here making babies. So. So I don't know. I mean, I've seen a lot of that. Like, if you guys free Gypsy, free the Menendez brothers. And I've watched interviews that they. I don't know. So there's a part of me that I'm like, yeah, heck, free them.

[B]

And they're past their years of, like, procreating.

[A]

They just went up in front of the parole board. I think they. Did they get declined or something?

[B]

First they were going to get out. There was like, this. All this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About them getting out, and then they didn't. But to me, I'm like, okay. They've also been in my prison since the 90s or the 80s. I can't remember.

[A]

So more evidence came out. That's why they. Something happened. Like, the D. A. Was going to try to.

[B]

And then a new D. A took.

[A]

Took over and was not in support of something like that.

[B]

Yeah, something. Something along those lines. But, like, for me, it's Yeah. I would be curious to circle back with you after that, because I would love. Even if we have a difference of opinion, like, I would love to discuss that with you, because it seems like, you know, way more about Gypsy than I ever did. But the Menendez brothers, I just have a soft spot for, because I do feel like they not saying that what they did is right. And I do think that they deserve to be in jail for a certain amount of time. But I think at this point, I mean, they've been in, what, for 30 years almost or. Or more.

[A]

And to the people that speak out, like, from the prison and people that

[B]

know them, they've done a lot of work.

[A]

All good things to say about them, so.

[B]

And their fam. I mean, there was, like, 20 family members that actually testified. Testified for them, like, on their behalf. And I mean, none of them, I don't think, ever, like, misrepresented or. Or def there. I know there was a lot for, like, Kitty and Jose. Like, there was a lot of people on their side, too. But there were. There were family members that testified on behalf of the Menendez brothers. And I just feel like all the work that they have done in prison, behind bars, working, going to school, doing the programs, doing all the things like, did Gypsy do all the.

[C]

That.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if she did, maybe not long enough. Do you know what I'm saying? Where, like, the Menendez brothers were, are roughly the same age as Gypsy was.

[A]

Gypsy was. I mean, she literally spent eight years in prison. I mean, that. That's nothing for what she did. You know what I'm saying? And they've been in there.

[B]

Decades.

[A]

Decade. Yeah. So, I mean, based on the little bit that I know, I would say free them, but I just don't know very much. So it's hard for me to, like, give, like, a solid answer on there.

[B]

But outside of that, is there anybody that you would love to dig into a little bit to cover on your pages that you haven't yet? Reality TV inmates, Just anybody.

[A]

I do want to get more into, like, the housewife situation.

[B]

Okay. Do you watch the Housewives?

[A]

I didn't, but everybody has asked me to, but I just don't. I just don't really have time. But me and Ray started going live, like, on Tick Tock and. And watching some of the show, but then they pulled, like, season one off Follow or whatever, Peacock, so I kind of got messed up with that. But, I mean, with six kids, you know, so trying to film, and I am slow when it comes to, like, preparing. So If I'm going to do a live, I'm taking two hours to prepare.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you're putting a lot of work even to go live?

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

And, oh, I just go on live on a whim. That's why everyone has to babysit me. I get it now. Cuz I just fall into the trap of all the comments where you're going in with. You don't necessarily care as much about what people are saying. You're coming in with a, with a task. You want to cover these things. And then you might get to a question or two. Is that, is that kind of right?

[A]

Well, and I get caught up in questions too, so.

[C]

Yeah, but mostly prepare.

[A]

My lives will be like an hour long and husband make the money. Stop it. My husband's like, stop. Like, well, mine will be YouTube. Okay. Like, because my main platform was YouTube for up until probably four or five months ago, I was mainly on YouTube. I've switched to tick tock because YouTube has gotten where they don't pay much and then Tick Tock pays more. But I would literally spend like two hours like, okay, like getting everything together and having my notes or literally writing like a whole script that I want to go off of, right? Making my thumbnail, getting pictures to go with it or making like a little video to go. Go with it. And so I could spend like hours out in my office and literally get one video done and then I gotta go to a basketball game, you know, so I'm like, that's it for today, you know, so if I have more time, there's a lot that I would want to get more into. But my God, I just have to. My husband is like the best though, because he tries to do it all. But as their mom, I'm still like, he's like, I'll take to the boys to the doctor. Like, I got their appointment. I'm like, no, but I need to go. I want to go, you know?

[B]

Yeah, Elijah and I are the same. Same way. Like, I'll call him, be like, the doctor. The kids have a doctor appointment. He's like, well, I'll stop what I'm doing. And he wants to go too. So, like, do you think that creators similar to you make more money on dragging reality stars than nice? Because there was a creator that I recently spoke to and I said, you know, I told her, I said, I don't really care what you say about me as long as you don't spread fact as true. You don't spread opinion and or lies as fact. Like if you get on your platforms and you say you hate my guts and you don't like my decisions and you don't like the way I live and you're concerned, that's one thing. Right. But I said make sure that you're also talking about the good stuff I do. Right. Like I just funded a inner city football team. My kids didn't play on that team and I funded their entire uniforms, everything that came with it. And my kids have nothing to do with that team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like, make sure you talk about that. Make sure you talk about the give backs that I do every single year. Make sure you talk about, you know, my scholarship at the college that people can apply for. Like, nobody talks about that stuff.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Say you hate my guts all day, but make sure you also cover the good. And I do understand that it doesn't perform as well, but like, let's be well rounded, let's be like more neutral. It's like you can say you hate me in one video, but also don't forget to cover the good things that I do.

[A]

I really feel like that's why I haven't grown as fast as other creators that like started around the same time as me. Because there's one creator that started and she's horrific. You know who she is, but she's horrible. She, she is horrific.

[B]

What a blast from the past. Is she still around?

[A]

Yes, she is. She is. And she has like 300, 400,000 followers on YouTube. Yes. And we started at the same time. But she drags people. She just drags people and she talks about the negative and do you think

[B]

they're really happy in real life?

[A]

No, no, I. No, I can't. No. Nope. Not at all.

[B]

You can't be happy if.

[A]

No.

[B]

And like it's a double edged sword. Right? Because you know you're going to get paid for talking this much. You know you're gonna get paid for it. But in order to focus on someone and have that level of hate, hate takes a lot of work. It's draining. And to be as I guess, passionate about the hate that they are, it concerns me because I'm like you. You also have children. Like I know those two creators that we're referring to, they have children. And so like, yeah. Are all my decisions and the things that I do, will they have a negative impact on my kids? Yeah, I'm sure to some degree. But that's every single human being.

[A]

Exactly. There's not one person on the face of the planet that is a perfect parent to where like, they don't have trauma that's spilling over into their kids life. Like so. And I've said this a million times on my podcast or my. On my channel, you can hate Kale for like the multiple baby daddies, whatever, but you've got to give it to. To her. She had no parents guiding her and she literally has built an empire. Like, she has her podcast. And I say this all the time, so I'm not like, here to kiss your butt, but. Because I really do say it. Like, I'm like, she has her podcast. She's figured out ways to make money. Like, her kids are set, I'm sure. And she had no parents. It would be one thing if she, like, Macy came from good parents, you know, so. But you didn't. You. You didn't have that. You didn't even know what a freaking mother was supposed to be like. But you, like, you. You did it and you might have. And I was going to ask you that. Do you think, like, what would be the longest you would say you've been, like, without a man, like, in between? Because I think there's psychology behind this, you know, Doubt.

[B]

Well, my mom. My mom, between real marriage, like legal marriage and common law marriage, was married seven times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's absolutely ought to be psychology and like a cycle there. Right.

[A]

I think you haven't even.

[B]

Have I been without a man? Oh, wow. I think the way that I've able. Been able to justify it in my head and it's not.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, it's really not. Is that like the people that I was with without claiming them, I wasn't calling them my boyfriend. Like I might have dated them or whatever. Or girlfriend.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I wasn't claiming them. So, like, I was able to be like. Well, I was single.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Know. But when I really. But technically you are now that you're asking me to my face and I'm forced to think about it. Not very long. I think the longest I went between. Not very long.

[A]

Very long.

[B]

No.

[A]

So do you feel like maybe you just can't be alone? Like.

[B]

No, I. I love to be alone. That's the. That's the craziest part.

[A]

That's really weird.

[B]

That is the craziest part.

[A]

So I guess needing, like, companionship. No, but let me say it that way.

[B]

So my entire relationship with Elijah, like, I never brought him on set anywhere. I never traveled with him outside of, like when we went to Turks and Caicos and Spain. We were together for three years and he didn't go anywhere with Me. And I thrived that way. Like, I'm not saying that he would have. It would have been, like, bad, but, like, I was fine. Like, I never.

[A]

It's not like you need a man to have up your butt. You're like, you're. You're good with a man that can. Can give you your space still.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I've kind of thought about that way because I'm like, I think Kale subconsciously gets into relationships quickly because, like, she was like her own little person. Like, yes, she has a sister, but is her half sister.

[B]

I didn't meet her till I was 19.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So. And we didn't have a real relationship the way that we do now. Until now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. I just thought, like, even if she didn't, like, know that she was doing it, but it's her way of, like, never being alone again. She's got her kids, so she will always have people. Like, because when she was growing up, she didn't have anybody. She didn't have anybody that she knew for a matter of a fact had her bag that loved her that was going to be there for her. So she's got these kids now and they have that she's close with all of her kids. And you can tell because when you have Elliot on here, that you can tell that you have a really close bond. You know what I'm saying? Like, when you watch you with your kids, people can say what they want to say, whatever. But are your kids seem to like, really love you, you know? So I'm like, maybe this was like, subconsciously her way to make sure I'm never going to be alone again. Like, I might have been alone as a kid, but, like, I got my family now.

[B]

I also think that I have a hard time with sometimes I don't intentionally get in these relationships.

[A]

Yeah. It just kind of falls into your lap.

[B]

So. And that's not. I'm not trying to justify it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, I'm not. That's not an excuse. But I'm. I'm saying honestly, like, I don't know because I have no pro. Like, I'm okay being alone. Ask Elijah. He'll tell. Like, he could tell you I. I would. I mean, 2024, I traveled, like, more than I ever have in my entire life. And every single one. I was. I didn't bring my partner. It has to be subconscious. It has to be something that even I don't understand. It was also what I saw growing up.

[A]

I don't mom with. Yeah.

[B]

I don't remember my mom ever being single in my whole life.

[A]

My mom got married four times and it was something with my husband that like, I kind of realized later on in life that when I, even when I married my husband, it was kind of like, oh yeah, let's get married.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Cuz subconsciously I was like, oh, if it doesn't work out, oh well, on to the next one. You know what I'm saying? Praise God. We're 17 years into it, but I think it's because we, we changed the cycle. Like we stopped the cycle, you know, But I mean, I didn't look at mirrors the way that I needed to because I saw my mom get married four times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, which I have a great mom, love her to death, and she has her own issues that caused her to be that way, you know, but it was something that my husband like, pointed out years later that, you know, when, when we got married, you were very, you had this wall up. You were very just like, you were not emotional with me. And I was like, yeah, I wasn't, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was because I seen my mom just, you know, she, I mean, she got married four times, so.

[B]

Interesting. I, I would be curious to ask my therapist, and my therapist is a doctor as well, so I will be curious to ask her what. Not saying that a therapist that's not a doctor isn't good, but mine is also a psychologist and I would be curious to see what she has to say about that. There's just so much that my life is very complicated and layered in a lot of ways that people don't even know about. And we haven't gotten there yet in therapy, so.

[A]

And at least you're in therapy though, for, you know, people that hate on.

[B]

I mean, I've taken time off over the years, but it's been. Been challenging because people like pages like yours, they, they think that they're saying something new and it's old and tired and I, it's like every single video that's made is about me and my relationships with men. And it's just like, do we have anything else to talk about? Is there. Are we not tired of hearing this?

[A]

Like, we are like, you understand that too. You're like, okay, that's messed up. Like, I have.

[B]

I also don't understand then they'll like, well, if she's trying, why isn't she doing? And it's like, it's easier said than done. But also I don't understand it. So it's like, I am aware of it, but I don't understand it. I can't fix something that I don't know how to fix. Because if it is subconscious, like we're saying, how the do you fix something that's subconscious? How do you fix something that's been going on for the past 16 years? This isn't like it's been going on for two, three, four, five years. It's been going on for 16 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and I was in toxic relationships before Joe as a. A young teenager, right. Like, my first two real relationships in high school before Joe were very toxic. And so we were toxic before even that. And it's like that was a responsibility of my caregivers, which I didn't have. And so I'm not blaming that, but I'm saying, like, it is. I have to be in therapy almost longer than I've been doing this in order to figure it out. So if we're talking about 16, 17, 18 years, right? Because I got pregnant with Elliot, 17 years old, I had two toxic relationships before Jo. Joe, we're talking about I need to be in therapy for probably close to 20 years before to really figure it out really quick. Figure it out and be able to undo what I've been doing for the past 16 years. And it takes a lot of work. And it also is like, I have to have the time to dedicate to that. I don't know if anyone knows this, but, like, I work over 40 hours a week. So it's like I'm working over 40 hours a week, plus I have my kids, plus I'm in, you know, a relationship. I have. Elijah's my neighbor. Like, I have all kinds of people in my life, so there's a lot going on, and you have to have the time to dedicate to it. So if I can't fit therapy into my schedule once a week and it becomes every other week or once every three weeks or once a month, that's not helpful either. But it's like, literally the time. But I. I have to work first to pay for my bills before I can add anything else. You know what I mean? So that's, like, also part of it. And I'm not making excuses. Just like, you want me to undo trauma, 16, 17, 18 years of trauma to figure out this whole men thing, this men cycle.

[C]

Cycle.

[B]

Once a week in therapy, right? If I can make it once a week to therapy. There was a time I was going twice a week that still didn't get. That was just to dissect what was going on right there in real time.

[A]

Yeah. You weren't even talking about like all these. Yeah.

[B]

So what the am I, like, what about addicts? Right. Like, not to compare myself to that. But it's like they know they have a problem. Right, Right. And they want to fix it it, but they don't know how to fix it. And even with the tools to fix it, they have to have the time and the mental space and the capacity.

[A]

And then there's always relapse, you know, I mean, so even if you got to a place to where you could you figured it out, who's not to say that it might not happen again just because it was what you were used to or whatever? Because you know how addicts relapse. Like, I don't know. This is all our first time living. We're all a work in progress.

[B]

And I never want to come back after this. I'll tell you that. I do not want I done at 60 tapping out. I will see you on the other side because I'm not doing it. On that note, where can everybody find you? Where can people get your content? Tik Tok, YouTube, all of it.

[A]

Okay, so I'm on YouTube, Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook, at LB. LB. Official.

[B]

E, L, L, E. Yes.

[A]

E L, L, E B, E E. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, perfect. Thanks for coming on Barely Famous podcast.

[A]

Thank you for having me, Kale.

[C]

Of course, Sam. Foreign. I have way too much free time said no one ever. Work, appointments, family and friends. Life is non stop. And trying to find a new place on top of all of that, completely overwhelming. That's where apartments.com comes in.

[B]

If you want to make time for

[C]

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[D]

I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blake Lee Thornton. Join us for yesterday's the podcast cast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve. The things that got us riled up during dial up. Those makeouts that should have been breakouts and the drops that were cemented in pop. I'm talking Benifer, Tyra versus Naomi, Tom Cruise jumping on that couch and so much more. So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple, podcast, Spotify or anywhere you get audio Related Content Content. We also take Venmo and Cash app ach or credit card number as well. We're malleable. Yeah, you know we're gay.

[A]

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