The Beauty Industry Isn't Dying, You're Just a Mediocre Business.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "The Beauty Industry Isn't Dying, You're Just a Mediocre Business"

Podcast: Beauty with a Twist
Host: Dede
Guest: Jane Payne (Lady Payne)
Date: January 9, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode takes a brutally honest look at why some beauty businesses are struggling—not because the beauty industry is "dying," but because many owners don’t possess the right business skills. Dede and guest Jane Payne dig deep into the realities of entrepreneurship in beauty, separating facts from excuses, and revealing the business strategies—especially SEO—that set seven-figure earners apart. There’s candid discussion about competition, coaching, passive income myths, and why real growth requires sacrifice and continual marketing. The episode is raw, irreverent, and packed with insights for anyone in the service/beauty industry.

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Major Topics & Discussion Points

1. The Myth of the “Dying” Beauty Industry (02:00–03:34)

• Jane: The industry isn’t dying; it’s “purging mediocre businesses.”

  "You can be the most talented person in the treatment room, but your business is mediocre... If you didn’t implement a single goddamn business or marketing plan in the past year, it’s no wonder." — Jane Payne (02:04)

• Losing 15% of clients annually is normal—if you’re not actively growing, you’re shrinking.
• Blaming the economy is often just masking a lack of business growth.

2. Talent vs. Business Acumen (02:00–03:57)

• Jane: Many estheticians stack “treatment room” skills but lack “war room” (business) skills.
• Real success requires mastering marketing, client retention, and growth tactics, not just technical expertise.

3. Instagram vs. SEO: The Real Key to Getting Booked (03:57–08:21)

• Social media visibility isn’t enough:
  • Many are focused on “Instagram clients” (low intent) instead of high intent Google/SEO clients.
  • "The moment you type in ‘Brazilian wax near me,’ that’s a high intent client… If you’re not, then your competitor is. So you need to prioritize SEO." — Jane Payne (04:23)
• Case study: Jane’s own business and her students have seen up to 80% growth after prioritizing SEO.
  • "If you were to Google ‘San Jose Brazilian wax near me,’ I will be number one above EWC, above any chain." — Jane (05:26)
• Actionable: Start with SEO for compounding effect, then layer social media once the foundation is set.

4. Overcoming the Fear of New Skills: SEO Is Not Scary (08:25–09:24)

• Most beauty professionals stall because learning new things (like SEO) feels intimidating.
  • "We stopped forcing ourselves to learn new things... Once you learn [SEO], you can’t unsee it anymore." — Jane (08:30)
• Jane is teaching SEO at IECSE NY and recommends getting in now before the local market catches up.

5. On Competition: “Gut the Competition” (09:24–10:33)

• Jane is unapologetically competitive:

  "I want to gut the fucking competition. Like, you can bloom, but not in my fucking garden." — Jane Payne (09:31)

• She encourages students to decide: Are you “live and let live,” or do you want to dominate? For seven-figure success, you must aim to be untouchable in your market.

6. Building a Product Line: Wax, Oils, and Never Selling Direct to Clients (35:33–43:16)

• Jane’s product line arose from a team member's desire to sell only in-house developed products.
• Phantom Oil & Agent 88: Only sold to estheticians, never directly to clients or retail stores.
  • "I hated companies for Bushbomb—no disrespect, but all disrespect in the world... I will die on that hill. I will not do it." — Jane Payne (39:19)
• Jane’s stance: Selling direct is “disrespectful” to service pros, as it cuts them out of repeat product income.

7. The Coaching and Passive Income Myths (25:08–29:34)

• Passive income through digital products is a “scam” unless paired with perpetual marketing.
• Most coaches are mediocre—short on business experience, high on self-promotion.
  • "I think the shitty coaching industry is oversaturated... There’s a big difference between someone who’s been a business owner for 20 years and someone who just became one." — Jane (28:03)

8. Staff Retention & “Stealing Clients” (47:32–53:49)

• Jane treats her staff well (six-figure pay, personal support), but recognizes people leave for better pay/conditions.
• She’s realistic: Most leave to start their own businesses with the existing clientele—don’t do this to solo owners who treated you right, but to exploitative chains, it’s part of the game.

9. Not Everyone Should Be a Boss (54:18–57:42)

• There’s a false glamour around entrepreneurship.

  "If your end goal is to make X amount of money, go home and be stress-free, then you’re in this column. If your end goal is to have others work and not be in the treatment room, you have to be in this column—but it requires X, Y, and Z." — Jane (54:18)

• Anecdote: Dede’s partner tried entrepreneurship and discovered clock-in/clock-out life was his happiness—owning a business is never “off.”

10. What Not to Do: Politics in the Treatment Room (57:44–61:37)

• Jane’s regrets: Talking politics with clients—lost clients as a result. Advises keeping it strictly professional.
  • "They do not need to see all of me... I’m never going to have dinner with you. I don’t need to know that about you." — Jane (58:02)
• Stay focused on universal topics; don’t let divisiveness impact business.

11. The Importance of Relentless, Consistent Marketing (62:37–63:39)

• Jane’s final message:

  "If you guys don’t market, you don’t care. It’s simple as that... You can say all you want, ‘I just want to wax, I don’t want to go on TikTok...’ You don’t care. Just say it out loud." — Jane (62:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "No, bitch, I’m saying that your talent is probably A-tier, but your business is mediocre. Two things can be true."
  — Jane, (02:04)
• "SEO is like stocks...it just grows and grows and grows. That’s what you want to prioritize."
  — Jane, (05:54)
• "You can bloom, but not in my fucking garden."
  — Jane, (09:31)
• "Passive income is a scam."
  — Jane, (25:08)
• "I think the shitty coaching industry is oversaturated."
  — Jane, (28:03)
• "If you don’t market, you don’t care about your business. It’s that simple."
  — Jane, (62:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:00–03:34 – Debunking the "dying industry" myth
• 03:57–08:21 – Instagram vs. SEO, how real clients find you
• 09:24–10:33 – Jane’s competitive philosophy
• 35:33–43:16 – Building a product line and not selling direct to clients
• 25:08–29:34 – Coaching myths and the reality of passive income
• 47:32–53:49 – Hiring, team loyalty, and the reality about client retention/“stealing”
• 57:44–61:37 – What not to discuss with clients (politics, divisive topics)
• 62:37–63:39 – The final truth: relentless marketing or you don’t care

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Final Takeaways

• Brutal Honesty: If you’re struggling, look at your business skills and marketing, not the industry.
• Stack Real Skills: Technical ability alone is not enough; business acumen is vital for growth.
• SEO > Social for Clientele: Most high-intent clients come from searches, not social scrolling.
• “Bloomer or Dominator?” Decide if you just want to earn a living, or dominate your market—and act accordingly.
• Marketing is Non-Negotiable: If you want a sustainable business, you must market—consistently, relentlessly, and smartly.

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Who should listen? Beauty professionals, solopreneurs, and anyone seeking candid, actionable advice on growing a serious business in a tough industry.

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Transcript

[Jane Payne]

In 3, 2, 1.

[Host]

Hey, guys. Welcome to a new season of Beauty with a Twist. We are officially on season six. We want to thank you all for tuning in on Spotify, Apple, TikToks, our YouTube, Instagram, and we can't wait for you guys to see what we have in store for you next. Welcome, Lady Pink. Oh, my God.

[Jane Payne]

No, no, no.

[Host]

Welcome back.

[Jane Payne]

How are you having me? Well, how are you?

[Host]

Ah, you can buy a thread.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know, living, being mom.

[Jane Payne]

Holidays are over.

[Host]

Oh, I'm so excited. I was, you know, I. I think for this holiday was probably the most tired I've ever been with a toddler. Now. It's insane.

[Jane Payne]

I. I know you're ready for baby number two. Yeah.

[Host]

No, no, no. We're not even gonna get into that.

[Jane Payne]

She's. She's gonna have one.

[Host]

But I just want to say thank you for coming out here again. Flying out.

[Jane Payne]

Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

[Host]

Can I just say something, too? I've never podcast. Correct me if I'm wrong. I.

[Jane Payne]

No, I haven't shown up the way I show up for you. But you can get anybody to show up for you. I love her beauty with a twist, man. Like, she can get anybody to sit here. She. She has it.

[Host]

I love you. The way that she. Her energy when she just comes in is insane, you guys. And if you know Jane, she is so small, you guys, Tiny. I could just, like. I. Delicate.

[Jane Payne]

It's true. I'm the size of a little boo boo. I told her earlier.

[Host]

It's true.

[Jane Payne]

I'm the boo boo size.

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

Let's get started. I love some juicy questions.

[Jane Payne]

Okay, let's do it.

[Host]

Insane.

[Jane Payne]

Okay, let's do it.

[Host]

Okay, let me ask you.

[Jane Payne]

Okay.

[Host]

I'm not even gonna go based off this. We're gonna go in a different route. Okay. Because the questions that we have are insane. But I want to ask you one thing, because a lot of people struggled in 2025, but they've been struggling because of the economy.

[Jane Payne]

Right? Right.

[Host]

They think that the beauty industry is dying. They think that. Why am I not getting booked?

[Jane Payne]

Right.

[Host]

Why is it so slow? Is it slow for everybody? Right. What do you think? Because I see you're. You're doing great. Yeah.

[Jane Payne]

So the beauty industry is not dying. I always say that the beauty industry is purging, and it's just. It is exposing mediocre businesses, and a lot of people will be pissed by that. And they're going to say, you're calling me mediocre? No, bitch, I'M saying that your talent is probably a tier, but your business is mediocre. Two things can be true. You can be the most talented person in the treatment room, but your business, you're in the treatment room, you're stacking skills, right? Like, I'm sure you're, you're. I haven't been in the treatment room the past four or five years, so I'm sure that you are a much better esthetician. I mean, whoever it is, is much better esthetician than I am. But in terms of business skills, tell me, what business skill did you learn this past year that, that you actually implemented? There's a difference between skills inside the treatment room and skills inside the war room. When you actually lay business goals and have marketing plans and whatnot, right? So if you didn't implement a single goddamn business or marketing plan in the past year, it's no wonder. It's. Your businesses die. 50. What? You lose 15% of clients every single year. So if you're not growing by 15%, you're dying. So that's what's happening right now. It's kind of simple. As, you know, you gain weight. For example, you, you will gain weight incrementally. And you don't realize it until all of a sudden you've, you know, gained, like, you've been up at four pant sizes, right? It's the same thing with losing business. Like, you don't realize you've been losing business until all of a sudden year four. Now it's no longer the same. And then that's when you go, oh, the beauty industry is dying. No, man, your ambition is dying. Your willingness to learn new skills is dying. Has nothing to do with the industry.

[Host]

So what do you, what are some, like, advice then? Like, what would you do if you were, like, struggling? Like, for, let's say, for example, you're saying all this and they're, they're trying, they're showing up every day. They're. They have the consistent clients, but they're just still not there. They're showing up on Instagram, they're doing all the content, all. What do you have to say?

[Jane Payne]

So it's not. So Instagram is great. Social media is amazing. It's fantastic. The thing with social media is that there's two types of clientele, okay? There's, there's the high intent client, which is clients who are ready to book right now, and then there's the Instagram client who's like, hey, I'm ready to book one day. One day. I'm going, this girl looks funny. One day when I need a Brazilian, I'm going to go see her. You don't want, not that you don't want those clients, but those are not the high priority clients. I think it's kind of funny, right? A lot of people, they leave EWC a lot of wax nowadays. They leave EWC a lot of them, they left EWC with the clientele and with the hard wax technique. Great. But they did not take away the biggest piece of the biggest marketing advice that they should have, which is they have to prioritize SEO. SEO is high intent client, meaning that the moment you type in Brazilian wax near me, that means that's a high intent client looking for a Brazilian wax artist. And that means that it, they will come to you if you're the first person that shows up. If you're not, they're not, then your competitor is. They're going to go to your competitor. So you need to prioritize. You can do social media marketing, which is great. So like Yelp, Google, Google and ChatGPT. If you were to type in right now ChatGPT, who is the best Brazilian waxer in San Jose, it'll be me. If you were to go Google San Jose Brazilian wax near me, I will be number one above ewc, above any chain. I will be number one consistently. And that's SEO. And that's what EWC prioritizes. That's, that's the bwc. If you notice, they do not prioritize social media marketing. They don't need to. And they make millions per location. Why? It's all SEO. And so to the waxer out there who is struggling, I would say, let me take a look at your SEO. Do you have a website? Is your website like tricked out in SEO? No. Then you got a lot of work to do. It's all doable, all completely doable. But you know, that's the thing with social media is that you can build a fantastic business, but the moment you stop creating social media content, you're done. You're done. It's that hamster where you have to keep producing. Whereas SEO is like stocks. The moment you have like, you know, Apple stock, the moment you have it, it just grows, grows, grows, grows, grows. That's what you want to prioritize, that's what you see, prioritizes and that's what you have to learn. And that's the business, that's the first business skill. So when people say I market, how do you market? Like what do you prioritize it's not just showing up. What do you do when you show up? Like, I mean you can make the six and yes, make the six TikToks but the people most of the times, the people that I've seen who complain about the industry, they aren't making the six TikToks. Like I've looked at several of them at several of their accounts. They have no website. If they do have a website, it's not tricked out in SEO. The last time they made content was March to 2024. Not consistently. So it's not the industry, it's you and your mediocre business.

[Host]

Oh, she said it. Last time you came you were a six figure waxer, wax owner. We're in the sevens. I just need you to say a proud. Put your. Here, let me pass your crown.

[Jane Payne]

Thank you. Because we broke. So that's what I'm talking about, right? Like this year, this past year, one point, one point. Almost 1.2. Almost 1.2. Right. And I mean, and that's with five part time waxers. That's. With five part time waxers.

[Host]

That's insane.

[Jane Payne]

And that's just. And that's volume. That's all volume, right? Because I mean 65 times four an hour, that's you're going to get 260, you know, whatever. Right. That's all. I had a student recently who, she just texted me the numbers yesterday. She went from 140 last in 2024 to 260, 270. That's eight. The same thing, SEO. Like she and I like that. My students for the past year, they've seen what I've been doing in real time. I've told them exactly what I've been doing and they did things and some of them did the exact same thing. And she had 80% growth because she prioritized SEO. I mean we prioritize SEO for the first all of like the past two years and then only this year, only the past September onwards did we now shift our attention to social media. And that's what you should be doing. You start with the thing that compounds the most. It gives you, that gives you the biggest return on your investment right now. And then once that machine has been set up, that system has been set up, then you go with social media.

[Host]

Is that what you think that you and your waxers are doing differently in the industry?

[Jane Payne]

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think the problem is a lot of people fear that word SEO. They're like, I don't know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jane Payne]

The thing too is that we all, collectively, ever since we graduated from. From college or high school, we stopped forcing ourselves to learn new things. So now learning new, new things becomes scary and becomes like, oh, it's so. It's so intimidating. We can learn new things. The moment you learn this, you're like, you can't unsee it anymore. It's like, you see those holograms or you see those, you know, like, find this banana in this picture.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jane Payne]

Once you find the banana, you cannot unsee it anymore. You're like, okay, that's so easy. It's easy. It's not difficult.

[Host]

This is where you're teaching in your waxing summits, right?

[Jane Payne]

This is what I'm teaching at IECSE in New York this coming March. So I'm. I think this is going to be the only time I'm going to be able to teach it this year.

[Host]

And if you are going, you better.

[Jane Payne]

No, seriously.

[Host]

Like, seriously. Okay.

[Jane Payne]

Because you know why right now, honestly, is the best time to do it? Because not a lot of waxers understand SEO. More and more people are getting access to people like me who can explain it very, very easily.

[Host]

Yes.

[Jane Payne]

And once they have it in place and it just grows and compounds on its own, then the gap between number one. My job right now is to be number one and create that gap between number one. Number two, so large that no waxer dares to come into my town, comes. Comes into my neighborhood. I. I always ask my students, I always ask them, like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to just, you know, create a living for yourself? And are you okay with the other people in your neighborhood and live and let live? And they're like, most of the time, they're like, yeah. And I'm like, or do you want to gut the competition? Like, my thing is, I want to get the fucking competition. Like, you can bloom, but not in my fucking garden. Like, you can by all means, like, the city is big, go wherever you want to go, but not in my fucking neighborhood. And that's how I compete. And that's the thing. If you want SEO, if you. If you. If you want. If you want to be untouchable, if you want the seven figures, that's what you do. You. You plant the SEO seeds, and then it just grows on its own. So if anybody wants to learn the exact techniques that I use, you go to IECSC New York in March. I think I do it on Sunday and Tuesday.

[Host]

And she will have a booth there, you guys.

[Jane Payne]

And I have a.

[Host]

For the very first time, for the Very first time.

[Jane Payne]

A little nervous about that.

[Host]

Why? I know you're gonna sell out. I think. You know what a lot. I've been to many, many of these conventions. Right. Every year I go to Vegas. I've gone to the one right here in Anaheim. I've gone to premiere. I've gone to a lot of them.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

A lot of the times they sell out, really, the first day, because people just buy and buy and buy, and then they try to go then that. Because they don't. They don't. A lot of people don't bring enough inventory for all three days.

[Jane Payne]

See, I always wonder about that because why don't people just, like, ship it out? Yeah, Like, I would.

[Host]

That's exactly what you should do. But people want it in hand because they want to do hauls right away. They want to do all these things. Like, they want to walk around with bags. Trust me. They want to be the ones.

[Jane Payne]

You know, they go sense the halls. That makes sense.

[Host]

They want to go to your booth and they were like, okay, what's her booth giving away? Because a lot of booths give away, like, pens or little bag tote bags. And then you'll draw a lot of attention if you have a bunch of tote bags with your logo on it. Oh, it's gonna be huge.

[Jane Payne]

Huge.

[Host]

And then you have, like, a little pamphlet of whatever, you know, your products and. Can I just say something?

[Jane Payne]

Yeah, you're.

[Host]

I need. I need all the products. I use all of them.

[Jane Payne]

I need it.

[Host]

I literally need to learn how to use soft wax for the coochie because I need.

[Jane Payne]

We should make a video just on that. Okay. One of these days. Okay, we should. You know what we should do, actually? Seriously, for reals, like, we should do, like. I'll go in there. We should do that. Invite the horseshoe girl. Just do it. Invite the horseshoe girl. Okay. I'm saying. Okay. I would love to see, like, holy shit. All in one. Just saying. Marlo would love to see it.

[Host]

Marlo. When you love to see Marlow, girl scared. Marlo would be terrified if he's looking the other way. How would he edit this?

[Jane Payne]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Host]

I don't know. His girlfriend would.

[Jane Payne]

Blurring the face. That's a blurry.

[Host]

But I see you on TikTok. I see people making TikToks. If, like, de influenced me, if I should buy this. And I see your wax on there. All your soft wax. I see it on there all the time.

[Jane Payne]

The goal with the soft wax at that time Was I wanted a crazy profitable wax because my volume is insane, okay? And the thinner the wax, the more I don't care. I don't care whether it's a hard wax or soft wax. The thinner the wax, the more profitable it is because you just have more product, right? So I wanted the thinnest possible wax that was also fucking strong that would remove all the hair at one time And.

[Host]

Can I ask you something?

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

Where the fuck are you?

[Jane Payne]

Do you have a warehouse all in my brother's house? I saw my brother. So that, that was like one of three reasons why I decided to start this so that my parents could have a job. Because otherwise they just sit there and argue with each other. So when I, I'm like, okay, I didn't know where to put it. So this was very much like, it's not fancy. Okay? It's not fancy. I can just imagine it's not fancy. I mean, I don't know if you saw. But like, my parents, they can't go down the stairs and there's like five little footsteps, five little steps down to the garage. And, and they created this thing where they just kind of slid the boxes down because they can't, you know, they're old. So it's just all my, my, my brother's house right now we're going to find a garage space because my parents can't walk up steps anymore.

[Host]

You know, I see people doing it as storage units because they don't want to pay the warehouse fees. They don't want to do none of that because it's expensive.

[Jane Payne]

It's expensive. Like I, I, I see breeze setup, and it's the most gorgeous, sexy garage, like, with, you know, all these cabinets.

[Host]

And I'm like, wow.

[Jane Payne]

One day. One day.

[Host]

And it's gonna happen fast.

[Jane Payne]

It's gonna.

[Host]

You better buckle it up because this year is your year. Let me just say, last time, I don't know remember what season you were on, but you didn't have. No, you were barely, you know, not barely. You were still. Your name was out there, but it wasn't as out there as, you know.

[Jane Payne]

It was still very much Teddy bear at the time.

[Host]

It was just Teddy Bear.

[Jane Payne]

It was very much Teddy Bear at the time. I believe it was like 99% teddy bear.

[Host]

Yeah, right. You had your followers still, but you've got grown, right? So much since then. It's like, if you don't know who she is, then you need to. Okay.

[Jane Payne]

She just loves me. Okay?

[Host]

I'm being so.

[Jane Payne]

At that time, it was just Wax Chat Wednesdays, and it was just me sharing my knowledge at that time, right. Of how I did what I did.

[Host]

Which I missed them. But I can understand why you don't really put it out there.

[Jane Payne]

There's a quote, right? It says something along the lines of, to conduct the orchestra, you have to turn your back on the audience. And sometimes that. That's what happened. Like, in order to do certain things, you have to say no to other things and no to other people, too. I've lost friends in the industry and friends in general because there's a time to grow, right? There's a time for everything. And like, you, when you grow, you have to stop doing certain things. Not forever. Not forever, but. But in that time period, you. You have to invest your time differently, right? And one of the things that had to go was Wax Chat Wednesday so that I can grow lady pay.

[Host]

And I miss him. I was tuned in every Wednesday.

[Jane Payne]

It was pretty. One of these days, it'll come back.

[Host]

Just one day.

[Jane Payne]

Just.

[Host]

Just randomly say, you know what?

[Jane Payne]

I loved it. I did. No, but it was a lot of work, man.

[Host]

Yeah, I know.

[Jane Payne]

Because for a while, it was like every Wednesday, and it was every other Wednesday. And then I'm like, okay. And then I was like, promising a podcast. To this day, people are still like, you need a podcast. Like, shut up. Like, if I can do it at Dee Dee's level. Okay. With Marlo. Okay, If I can do it like this. It keeps getting better season after season. Then maybe, then maybe one day. One day. It's just a lot.

[Host]

It really is a lot. People don't understand. It is a lot.

[Jane Payne]

It's a lot.

[Host]

It's time consuming. You got to figure out guests, you got to figure out scheduling. Scheduling on both ends.

[Jane Payne]

And it's a full time job for you, and it's a full time job for Marlo in the back end, you know, editing and all that stuff. Like, and posting. It's a. It's a. It's a lot.

[Host]

Marlo and I message a lot. Yeah, we're going back and forth. I'm sending him this. Does he approve? Yes or no? I think this and this. And it's a lot.

[Jane Payne]

Even just sitting here watching you guys set this up. This was like a 30, 45 minute setup just to get the camera right, to check the mics.

[Host]

No, it's. It's a lot. But you know what? It's worth it. I do it for the people that want to learn about industries, different industries. It doesn't matter if it could be estheticians, waxers, tattoo artists. Tattoo artists.

[Jane Payne]

This is some of the best, dude.

[Host]

Yeah. Any of them barbers? It doesn't matter. Person that's a student that wants to join that industry, here's the real T behind that industry, you know, But I want to. I want to talk about something, because your last episode, can I just say, was one of the top episodes I've had till this day. Whoa. Our numbers are. And Marlo can even vouch for me. H. Marlo. It's up there, right? But our. Our short clips did so Amazing, right?

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

But there's one thing.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

And you know what I'm talking about.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah, I think so.

[Host]

These Lash texts hated us.

[Jane Payne]

Lash text. Lash text.

[Host]

They hated us because we, you know, we. You said some stuff that I agreed to, and they canceled us. And I. You know, people had podcast about it.

[Jane Payne]

Did they really? I sent it to you.

[Host]

I remember. Yeah.

[Jane Payne]

Everything's a blur. Okay. Like, oh, you're right. You're right, you're right, you're right.

[Host]

And it's pretty big. It's a pretty big podcast. And, you know, short clipping our clip and talking about it and, you know, you're right. It was a very. How do I say? Caused a lot of conflict.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you still feel the same?

[Jane Payne]

Yeah, I think. Okay, first of all, let me just reiterate what I said. Okay. What I said was, I cannot do what Lash techs do, okay. Because you guys, and I respect your industry. Okay. Let me just. First and foremost, I respect your industry, but I want to say this. You guys are sitting in a chair for two or three hours, micro movements. Your eyes blur like the fumes. And I mean, these little, tiny. Little tiny movements. In addition to that, you know, some guests are like, oh, I lost my lashes. Like, you know, the adhesives didn't work. All of that. I cannot do that. And that is a downside of the industry. No industry is perfect. I don't understand why you guys are upset that I would say that. Because no industry is perfect. And if you remember in the comments, there were hundreds of Lash techs who were like, former Lash techs who are like, yep, that was me. That was me. A lot of people agree.

[Host]

A lot of people agreed.

[Jane Payne]

Yes. Now, for the. Some. For some of the Lash techs who are like, well, no, that didn't happen to me. You're a fucking unicorn. Okay. Or, like, good. Good on you. I'm glad for you that you've lasted 10 years. And I'm sure for you you're like, I'm Gonna Last another 20 years, good for you. But I can. But I'd like to ask you a question. Where's the downside of your industry? Like what, what repetitive stress injury do you have? Because every industry has a repetitive stress injury. That is the nature of the job. Even if you just walked for four hours, for most of four hours, you going to have knee issues, joint issues. Like every industry has something for waxers, it's our shoulders. Because we do this a lot, you know, like our backs, you know, if the tables aren't right. But even if the tables are right, after like seven hours of waxing, your back is going to go. So Lash text, why are you mad about that comment? Because that's the truth.

[Host]

They think that they. You hate them is what is what it is.

[Jane Payne]

And I get why you would think that if you guys didn't hear the entire thing. I mean, like, I'm not saying that the lashes. You know what, let's talk about the nail industry. Let's start another fight.

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

Let's talk about the nail industry. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah. You know the nail industry. I used to have nails we were talking about and we, this whole place was nail bar. And I dreamt of having nails and this and that. And I got rid of it within two, three years. I couldn't smell the acrylic powder. How are you going to give a facial? Even though we had the vacuum in each room, the sucks, all the acrylic, I could still smell it, right? And I don't know what it is with Lash text, but they're just dramatic on a lot of things. But I know, hey, I love Lash tech. I mean nail tech.

[Jane Payne]

We're saying that every industry has its positives and negatives, right? I follow these two nail techs. One is nails by Aaron, I think Iran Aaron, beautiful girl. Another girl named Chloe does nails. The most beautiful, intricate work I've ever seen in my life. Like, and I saw this one quote by, by like she was saying how much nails you know, like she charged 265. Let's just say 300 for a two hour set, right? And I'm like, God damn. Like, honestly, honestly, she has more talent in her pinky finger than me in my entire body, my entire 410 body. But I make 265 an hour. Now let's talk about plus and negatives, right? Like the plus side of that nail industry is that it's if it's on their nails. These girls are going every three weeks. They're going on the dot every three weeks. Whereas my clients. Am I yelling? I'm yelling.

[Host]

I love when you yell. That's why I mix your wax Wednesdays. She would yell at the camera and just. I love when you yell.

[Jane Payne]

Keep it going. My. My clients, they come. Not all of them come regularly. They come once every three months, right? Like, they definitely come during the summertime. They definitely come before Valentine's or whatever, but it's once every three months. So we let waxers have to make up for an insane volume. I have to constantly market for an insane volume. Whereas with nail techs, if you have someone as talented as Chloe or as Aaron, they can do nails. Like, I mean, their clients will never leave them. They're on the dot every three weeks. Every three weeks. So that's the plus and the minuses. Like, you have to be really realistic about your industry, and that's how you build a sustainable business. But you don't go, well, that's bullshit. Okay, then tell me what the reality of your industry is. Do not tell me it's all, you know, sunshine and rainbows. Because no industry is.

[Host]

No, you're right, you're right. You know what? I. I applaud a lot of nail techs that have been doing, you know, I just want to go get my nails done. And I was like, I usually go with my nail artists, right? But I have been seeing the mom and pop shops just going down because a lot of people are doing, you know, at home and, you know, they're not really going to nail salons anymore. So I decided to check one out and I. It was just like, I don't know, comforting for me, you know, because I haven't gone to one in a long time. But I got this set, acrylic, right? Chrome, $55. If you were to go to. At home, how much am I talking? 85, 95. I'm not sure. Applaud to them. I give it to them. But, you know, it is a lot.

[Jane Payne]

The thing too, is, is competition. The echoes go all comes back to competition and marketing. And did you build a brand for yourself? Right. Those are all, again, the business skills that you have to stack, right? So like, in any. That's the downside of any industry. That's the reason why you have to stack these business skills. Whether you are a lash tech, a waxer, a facialist, all of that you still have, that comes down to just business skills.

[Host]

Then what are the downsides of waxing? What do you think? Downside?

[Jane Payne]

The downside of waxing Is that is. Is they've got the back issues, you've got the shoulder issues. But the marketing issue with waxing is that it's all volume, that you have to go a high in volume because you, like in any industry, you lose 15%. But for us, 15% is a huge number. So it's all about volume. You have to just have, you have to stack as many customers as possible.

[Host]

So what do you mean when you say supplementing a waxer's income?

[Jane Payne]

So I'll have to say this. With, with waxing, it's not on your face, right? So if you do brows, if you do lash extensions, it's on your face. That's the first thing you take care of. With waxing, it's in your pants, you can hide it for a few months, right? You can hat there's true. If you have like a unibrow on your face, that's different, you take care of that right away. If it's in your nails, you take care of that right away. Because that's, that's important to you. With waxers, you have to, you like us, we only do Brazilian wax, I mean, other body waxing, but we don't do facial waxing, right? So for us, we have to stack the numbers for the winter or whatnot, because that's our. January is our slowest season, right? For other waxers, they'll go into digital products. They will go, like Libby, for example, she just released, I don't know if you, she just released that amazing AI tool, right? Like, I mean, you have to get creative because either you, you increase your numbers with clients or you tap on additional services or you go, you know, with digital products, right? But the thing with digital products though is don't mistake that for passive income, because passive income is a scam.

[Host]

So, so are you saying waxer shouldn't get into digital products?

[Jane Payne]

I think that waxers, when it comes to digital products, they have to be aware that it's not passive income, which passive income means that you don't do shit. And then it just comes to you, right? You have to market with digital, any digital products, you have to market. And when I wax can coach and they can create courses, but you still have to market that stuff. They don't understand that. They just fall for this whole, let's just release a digital product. But then they don't market it. And then they're like, they're like, okay, well where's the sales? You don't even market your own business right now. You don't Market your core business right now. So what makes you think that all of a sudden you're going to have a course and people going to buy it, that it doesn't work that way.

[Host]

Because you didn't market it?

[Jane Payne]

Because you didn't market it. And you have to continuously market. You don't just market once. Continuously market it.

[Host]

Even if it gets annoying. Even.

[Jane Payne]

It definitely gets annoying. But there's a few people who do it really well. Libby does it really well. Scarlet does it really well.

[Host]

You just.

[Jane Payne]

Any product you have, any service you have, you have to market. You don't market, then I mean, it's just. Don't mistake it for passive income. It's not passive income.

[Host]

So let me ask you for a waxer that only, you know, if they don't come to work, they don't make any money. Where. What are ways that you can, you know, make money while not just always being the one to do all the work? You know what I mean? Because I know that you have, like, employees, you know, I know that you have your brands and you sell your products, but is there other ways that.

[Jane Payne]

You feel like it comes down. They can. I think nowadays there's. There's so much opportunity for so many, for just this, for aesthetics in general, right? You can, like Libby, for example, she has a contract with Wax Nest, right? That's like those. And. And what does she do? She literally just asked them. She's contacted them and said, hey, I can represent your, your company, I can do demonstrations for you. And that leads itself into coaching. She's booked out for six months on coaching, right? Like that. You just have to be creative about it. Brie, for example, she has contracts with Gloss Genius. She has contracts with Gloss Genius. What was the other company? Insurance. The ascp. CPA insurance company. Right. Like, you can do that and coaching is always a thing.

[Host]

But do you think everyone can coach? Listen.

[Jane Payne]

Well, that's such a good question. That's a fantastic question. No, I can tell you right now, I'm. I'm a shitty coach. I'm a shitty coach. I'm very much like, do what I do. But I'm like, but I'm very patient with you. I just don't like unless you ask me the right questions. And I'm kind of like, oh, yeah, yeah, do that, do that, that sort of a thing. But no, I think that there's right now in this industry, there's too many coaches who are the same thing.

[Host]

It's oversaturated with, oh, they want a coach and they want to do this, and they, you know, give me a call for one hour and it's $250.

[Jane Payne]

I think there's.

[Host]

You can't tell me I'm not wrong.

[Jane Payne]

I know. No, by. By any. No, by. By. By no means. By any means. You're not. You're not wrong at all. I think that the industry isn't. I don't think. I don't think that the coaching industry is oversaturated. I think the shitty coaching industry is oversaturated. I think that there's too many people who just, you know, opened up their. Their store for, you know, their studio for like a month, and they're like, hey, I also offer coaching calls. Like, you know, I think that. That there's a big difference between someone who's been in the industry who's. I'll give you an example. And it's not to toot my own horn, okay? I have been a business owner for 20 years. That's different from someone saying that they've been in the industry for, let's say, five years. Right? You've been in the industry, meaning you've been an employee for five years. That doesn't mean. And now you have your own studio for like a year. Great. Fantastic. But that's a different level of experience from someone who's been in the industry for 20 years. I'm sorry, someone who's owned their own business for 20 years. Same thing with someone who's owned their own business for. For one year versus someone who's owned their own business for five years. Business ownership is different from just knowing how to wax. And I think that, you know, there's. There's a lot of coaches out there who say they know far more than they actually know. Because I can tell you right now, I look at their business and I look at their. Their SEO, and I'm like, what are you teaching people? What do you think? What do you. How are you marketing? What are you. I don't. I don't see you pocketing. So, like, how. What are you teaching them other than how to. To wax somebody? Okay, then at least just say that. But don't say that you can also teach them the business side, because I guarantee you can.

[Host]

Damn. That's all that just shut off everyone. They just went.

[Jane Payne]

That's all. Now take my course, and then you'll learn about SEO, and then you can teach it. Okay.

[Host]

That's a great way to market it. Take, you know what your summit. It just looks. You know why I like your Summits. Because it looks so intimate, and it doesn't look like. It's like you're renting out a hotel.

[Jane Payne]

What is it called?

[Host]

Like a venue. It's like you're talking to 50 people. It just looks so intimate, and you look so. Like, it just looks like a family in a way.

[Jane Payne]

You know that I'm not offering summits anymore, right? That last year was my last year of summits.

[Host]

What?

[Jane Payne]

Because of that very reason. Like, I. Two things. Two reasons. Number one, I could not. I know. I'm sorry. Two reasons. Number one, I give a lot to my students. Like, they have me on call, basically, right? And that's how I. I do not know how to coach any other way. I prefer that, like, if you need something, call me up. All my students know that you can call me at any time, but I can't do that for 5,000 people. So I realized that, like, my capacity. And they had me for life, basically. For life. So my capacity is there, number one. And number two, you can't leave the orchestra, you know, if you don't turn your back on the. On the audience. So at some point, I had to cut it off. So for me to grow. For me to grow Lady Payne and to do more shows and. And reach more people is. I had to cut off the summits. It was a painful decision. I had to talk to my team, and they. They love the summits, but I'm like, it's. This is the only way for me to grow, for. For Lady Payne to grow, for me to reach more people.

[Host]

So is there anything that we're doing other than the conventions? Because I know this is going to be your maybe first and last, right? Because we did talk about how expensive it was, and it is a lot of planning. And then you people don't realize how much you put in to go to these conventions.

[Jane Payne]

Expensive.

[Host]

And it's expensive, dude.

[Jane Payne]

It's expensive. Okay? I was just telling Didi here that, like, it's like we're talking room rentals of $3,000, booths of $3,000. And that's for a little dinky, inky dinky booth, okay? So it's really, really expensive, and it's time consuming, all of that stuff. I would like to start a YouTube channel. A YouTube channel. But I mean, like, I'd like to. But, like, I'd like to, but this is the year where I committed to, you know, this convention first. And let's see what happens. Let's see if they invite me back to another convention.

[Host]

You know what I just see a huge. How do I say? There is an esthetician. You know, she focuses on facials. She has. She goes to every convention. They pay her thousands to speak at them. Right. But we don't have any for wax. And I think that you're up this year.

[Jane Payne]

I think that needs to change.

[Host]

I. We don't have anybody.

[Jane Payne]

You know what? Honestly, I do feel as, like, waxers.

[Host]

We.

[Jane Payne]

We're kind of like the redheaded stepchild of the esthetician world, right? I. I do feel that way. I feel like we're the rock stars, but also the crazy ones. Like, the ones that unhinged. I'm okay with that, but at some point. And I love the fact that Brie got, you know, the. The. The COVID of one of the skin magazines.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jane Payne]

And it's a waxer. It's a waxer because they don't really talk about them. They don't really talk about waxers. So I'm glad that, you know, it's. It's. It's time. It's time for us to get our respect.

[Host]

And you know what? We don't get shout outs. So you're not gonna. You shut out all. Like, we talked about this. You shut out your nail tech, your lash tech.

[Jane Payne]

I know, but it's okay. That's all right. You know, in due time.

[Host]

That's what I'm saying. But this year, I feel like. I feel. I don't know what this year just feels like, fired up, Especially for this podcast. I just. There's a lot of things that I changed, and I just feel so fired up into, like, you know, things that I want to do, people that I want. Coming like this. This lineup of guests that I have for this season is incredible.

[Jane Payne]

This is so exciting. It is so exciting. I know. She told me. She told me earlier, and it's exciting. I can't wait. I just.

[Host]

I don't know. Like, you want to talk to me? Like, I. That's crazy.

[Jane Payne]

Who doesn't?

[Host]

No, but you know what? Let me say something. No, let me say something.

[Jane Payne]

You know what you did, right? For the past five, six years, you know what you did. You know that other people have tried. Yeah, you know that they've tried like a pod. They've tried to launch a podcast. They've done maybe two or three episodes, and they're done. And they're done. Because this is a lot of work, and you've elevated the game.

[Host]

Yeah, it is a lot of work. Honest.

[Jane Payne]

Okay. If I can't do it, If I can't do it at this level, I'm not going to do it. And that's just being real, this being respectful. It's the same thing with my product line.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, I'm not.

[Jane Payne]

I've seen some people who create a. No disrespect. I've seen some people who created products and they'll just put it in, you know, the, like, the packaging isn't great. You know, the verbiage isn't great. Like, if my products can't go to toe, toe to toe with bush balm or fur, I'm not doing it. So if this, this right here is the standard, if I can't do this standard, I'm not doing it.

[Host]

Like, it's true, though. It's, it's, it's true. Because this, again, a podcast, a lot of people, they just think you putting up a camera and they're gonna talk. And it is what it is. I've seen people that tried doing this concept, you know, and we all have. It just doesn't, it's, it's a very, very more power to them.

[Jane Payne]

But you learn it very quickly. Yeah, you learn very quickly that this is here. You have, you, right? You have Marlo in the back who's able to help you set, you know, this stuff up. But that's two almost full time people working on this podcast. That's a lot of manpower to do this. It's a lot of work.

[Host]

But you know what? I wouldn't have it any different. Shout out to. You know what? Shout out to Marlo.

[Jane Payne]

Shout out to Marlo.

[Host]

Okay, so let's get into these questions, okay, because there's some juicy ones in here that I really, I'm like looking at them like, okay, they're kind of juicy. Okay, so I really want to get into your product line because you haven't really. Last time that you were here, you had no products out. It was nothing. We didn't talk about any of that. I want to know how did the kind of concept happen in the first place? Did you just feel like, okay, we know about your wax, but I'm hearing about this oil that you have.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah, the phantom oil. So first of all, you know, the first of all, let me say this. One of my waxers, she, Maya, she has always wanted me to create a product, but she's always wanted me to create a product line. But even before her, people have always said, why don't you create a product line? One thing I've always known is that I didn't have the market for it. Like, as in nobody knew me. Like. Like, I mean, I started Lady Peng. I started the Wax Chat Wednesday, but at that time, nobody knew. Before that, nobody knew who I was. And at that time, when I started it, it wasn't with a product line in mind. At that time, I just thought, oh, okay, I will do something with this audience at some point. I did not put two and two together. That at some point, because I was still doing Teddy Bear. And one thing about a product line is that before you know this, before you start, if you're. Before you start anything new, you better have your core product, your core business locked in.

[Host]

Yes.

[Jane Payne]

Locked the fuck in. Right when you and I first started talking, I think at that time, I had just moved to Portland. And, you know, like. Like, even just getting Teddy Bear situated is a thing. Like, getting such. Like, once you move out of state and your business is in, like, the business in California, I'm out of state. Right. I live out of state. So just to get that locked in is a different game entirely. And to make sure that everything was flowing. And then now I'm building, you know, lady paying. But at that time, I wasn't with, you know, products in mind. And then it finally felt right. Like, it felt like, okay, um, Teddy Bear needed wax because. And we wanted a, more profitable wax. And the wax that we use, which I loved at the time, it was A, expensive, and B, it left the skin a little bit red. So I wanted it to be a little bit thinner, more profitable, and, you know, not red. So we developed Money Shot and then the product line. Like, that was Maya's idea. Maya, my, you know, my team member who was like, I don't want to carry X, Y and Z product anymore. Like, and she is the best seller in the whole wide world.

[Host]

Nobody.

[Jane Payne]

She can sell anything to anybody. Like, like, we just sold, like, I think, 110, something insane of our Black Friday specials, right? Like, 110. Like, I'm telling. Like, no, no, no, no. It was like 100,000. Like, a hundred. Like, it was something. It was insane. Like, I. I forget how the exact amount, but that was like, 99%. Maya. Like, Maya can sell anything to anybody. And when Maya, one day, she literally stopped selling products for two weeks. And she was like, I don't want to sell anybody else's products. I want to sell our products. And I'm like, okay, that's literally how it started. When your bestseller tells you, I don't want to sell anymore, I'm not going to sit Here and be like, I need you to. And blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff. Like, I so appreciate everything that she does. I'm like, okay, okay. Like, the wax was a no brainer because we might as well keep it in house and, like, you know, try to. Okay, I get it. But the aftercare, she was like, I don't want, I don't, I don't want to sell anybody else's. Okay. And she'd been talking to me about it for a while and I was like. And finally when she was like, to get my attention, she stopped selling and she's like, I'm done. I said, okay, so what is your.

[Host]

Top seller right now?

[Jane Payne]

88. Influenza. Because it's the only number one our product line. We didn't. We never sell it will never be available at Ulta. Never be available in Sephora. We never sell direct to clients. It's just through estheticians only.

[Host]

Yeah, because it's through the treatment, right?

[Jane Payne]

Yeah, It's. It's just for that. Right? So because of that, people are like, well, ingrown syndrome. What do you got? So it's Agent 88 and Phantom Oil. So.

[Host]

But why, like fur? They have, you know, ingrown serums and all this. You never think about, you know, in the future selling it in stores?

[Jane Payne]

I would never do that.

[Host]

I will.

[Jane Payne]

I mean, never say never. Never. Okay. I will never, ever do that. Because I'm a wax in person for most. I have a storefront. I have, you know, I. That I hated companies for Bushbone. No disrespect, but all disrespect in the world. I hated the fact that they sold direct clients like that. That was such a peeve of mine. So I said, no, I will not. I. I refuse. Like, like, I will, I will die on that hill. I will not do it. Is it because it's disrespectful? It's disrespectful. It's so disrespectful to say you love us and you're going to partner with us. Like, okay, I'm gonna.

[Host]

This is where it happens. We're beauty with the twist. Come on, say the. I remember fur.

[Jane Payne]

You guys had an event in Vegas for, you know, like, I saw that they would have events for, like, influencers, but I'm like, why don't you have events for waxers? Like, waxers tell me. Like, waxers buy your product. We keep you guys alive and this is what you do. This is the things that we get is that now instead of like, Creating events for us, saying thanks to us. You can do it for influencers instead. Beauty influencers. Okay, got you. Like, that pissed me off that I'm, I'm, that I find that so disrespectful.

[Host]

I, I, like, I'm in loss of words because I agree.

[Jane Payne]

I think it's disrespectful. I think it's, it's rude. I think that, and I feel like it's, you're, you're sabotaging the industry. And what they do too, is that they'll get the email addresses and whatnot, and they'll, they'll email them directly and be like, oh, this is 20 off. Right? Like, we can't compete with that. We can't, we can't go to Ulta. Like, and like Ulta, my clients have said before because we used to carry Bush bombs oil. And they're like, oh, I can get that at Ulta with points. I'm like, this one client literally took her phone and took a picture of it. And then she's like, yeah, I can get this at, at Ulta. I'm like, great. Of course. What are you gonna say? Other Sit there and be like, you know, no, don't support us. Like, okay, okay. That's the reason why, you know, like, that's, that's one of three reasons, right? The other reason, like I told you, was to support my parents. The second reason was because of Maya. And the third reason was because, well, I mean, it's all like 33%, but, you know, that I never wanted, I don't like selling direct to clients. That's, I'm not never doing it.

[Host]

So you just are, you think forever.

[Jane Payne]

It's just going to be forever and ever and fucking ever, ever, Never sign direct to clients. That happening.

[Host]

Well, there you have it, folks. If you want to get this fucking.

[Jane Payne]

Serum, just hang that. It's not happening. Not happening.

[Host]

But you know what? I, I, I can understand that and I can respect that and I completely agree. Because if I'm carrying Bush Bomb, right, and I'm carrying their scrub, you know, and I'm the one that's selling it to clients when I know that it's in Ulta, you know what's going to.

[Jane Payne]

Happen when they run out? They say they love the product. When they run out, do you really think they're going to drive across town to YouTube to pick up the product?

[Host]

And guess what?

[Jane Payne]

They're going to go online.

[Host]

I lost money that.

[Jane Payne]

Yes, they're going to go online, to Amazon, to Bush Bomb directly and then they'll get. They'll put in their email address to get 24% off the first. Their first sale and boom. They're never going to buy it from you again. It's not going to happen. I would never do that. No.

[Host]

Okay, now let me ask you something else. After agent. How do you say Agent 88. I need to try it, by the way.

[Jane Payne]

I'll send it to you.

[Host]

I need to fudge and try this.

[Jane Payne]

Because everyone is in spray for.

[Host]

I love that.

[Jane Payne]

I love that.

[Host]

I love that.

[Jane Payne]

I. You know what? To each their own. But I don't like touching shit me. I like spray racing.

[Host]

I love that. I love. If you look at my products right now, I put them purposely in that. Because that's. I love spray bottles.

[Jane Payne]

Because the other thing too, the reason why we put in spray bottles actually is because we have a lot of male clientele and we wanted something that reach the back.

[Host]

Oh, got it.

[Jane Payne]

We have a lot of backpacks. You know, people get their backs done. So it was that. Because the other stuff that we did, like they can't do that. So. Okay, how about your second most phantom oil?

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

Is that like a phantom oil is the equivalent to fur oil or to bush bombs oil? It's just an ingrown serum that's oil based. So I always say that if your client has normal to combination skin use. Agent 88.

[Host]

Right.

[Jane Payne]

If they have more sensitive skin than you, they would use it in grown oil. But it's fast drying. That's why I call it phantom, because it disappears. Oh, fancy.

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

So clever. So clever.

[Host]

Okay. And you still. You. You're. You guys are most known for the Manzilian stone. That hasn't changed, right?

[Jane Payne]

No.

[Host]

Can I tell you something? Yeah. I did Manzilians, remember we talked about it and I stopped.

[Jane Payne]

Why?

[Host]

Well, after.

[Jane Payne]

Okay.

[Host]

But the main. The reason why is because something very, very inappropriate happened. And then I was seven months pregnant.

[Jane Payne]

Oh, girl.

[Host]

And I don't wanna. I will literally get banned if I say it. Why? But it was crazy. And I felt so disrespected. And his friends started calling, seeing if I did the same thing. And it was just me. So I stopped doing it.

[Jane Payne]

Did you? Did. How do they find you online?

[Host]

Google.

[Jane Payne]

Google.

[Host]

Google.

[Jane Payne]

You just put it up once, right. And they found you that quickly?

[Host]

And I. But I did it for many years. It was. This was the first time it's ever happened and I've had incidents of other stuff, but it was minor. Didn't. Right. I don't give a. You know.

[Jane Payne]

Right.

[Host]

But this one, when I tell you after it's. It was huge. And it was the most disturbing.

[Jane Payne]

Were you the only one in here?

[Host]

No, my assistant was in the front. I couldn't. I could not check him out. Like, I couldn't. She checked him out. Whatever, whatever. And then, you know. But it was so disrespectful. So that's why I'm asking. Like, Menzelins are not for everybody, you know? You know, tell me. Tell me the tea. Honestly, after my experience, you know, men, zillions.

[Jane Payne]

You have to have a specific personality for it. But I have to say, you have to have a specific personality for a lot of jobs. Right? Like, you can't just. Like, not everybody can be a waxer. I'm sure there's a lot of Lash ticks who would hate to be a waxer. Right? And lot of waxers like myself who couldn't be a Lash tech. Right? You have to have a very specific personality for Manzilians. Me, for example, I have no. If you read my website, you know that I have no problems telling you off. And I think that has scared off a lot of men. Like my. I'm very straightforward. I use a lot of curse words on my. My website. I have told them that I have tasers. So they. When they. And when they come in, I'm very rude to them. Initially, I wouldn't say rude, but I'm borderline short with them. Like, as in, like, huh, Fine. Like, I'm not nice to them. I've had clients who've compared their interaction with me. Interaction with me to a drug dealer. Where, like, I'm just like, where. Yeah, okay. Like, I don't talk to them. Not until, like, the third or fourth visit. So I think I'm. Listen, I'm not saying that that will get rid of all the problems. I do think that you have to have a very short personality in order to deal with. To offer that.

[Host]

Yeah. Because I've never heard of.

[Jane Payne]

I.

[Host]

Maybe that was my problem. Maybe I was too talkative. But I think I'm.

[Jane Payne]

No, but don't. Don't say that. Don't. It's not your problem. He was an asshole. And like, I. Please don't. Don't think that it was your responsibility. Like, you didn't do anything wrong. You were professional, and he targeted you. Yeah, that's what.

[Host]

100%.

[Jane Payne]

He targeted.

[Host]

And then sending the homies after was this. Draw the fucking line.

[Jane Payne]

Right. No, I. 100%. I get it.

[Host]

Yeah. So I think in that point, I just kind of had to. You know what? My first of all, my boyfriend was like, absolutely the fudge. Not like, you're not doing that no more.

[Jane Payne]

Understood.

[Host]

He. He was okay with it at first. Make your money, babe. I support whatever you got going on. I trust you. It is what it is. After that, he was like, absolutely not. You're not doing that. Take it off your menu right now, today, tomorrow, yesterday. Okay, so we're going to move on. Let's see. We have a lot of questions, you guys. She. Can I just say she came in all the. The first time now, always. So just prepared and say, this is what we're going to talk about. We. I'm open to anything, but this is what we're going to go off. So we're going off prepared. The best, best questions. Okay. And the questions that you probably are the ones asking too. Okay, so right here. Do you encourage people or so you encourage people to steal clients from their boss?

[Jane Payne]

I've gotten. People have said that to me before. Right. They. Because.

[Host]

Yeah, that's a good question. Do you encourage.

[Jane Payne]

It's not that I encourage people. I know who. I have team members. I don't. I wouldn't be hurt if they left me and opened their own place. Right. But I'm also a realist and I understand that these things happen and I think that you can discover. Discourage it by paying them well. Right. And like understanding that they can. There's. I don't know if you saw this, but there's been. There's a reel that's been circulating where this hairstylist, she was called in into the office because she had made over, I don't know, like $250,000 in services for this salon. And she sold over $88,000 in product and they gave her a $2,000 bonus check. A $2,000 bonus check for somebody who, who, who earned like, you know, over 200, I don't know, like whatever. Thousand dollars in services and 80,000. You only give her $2,000 like crazy. And one, you have to respect your team members and realize that they can leave and take that huge chunk with them. And two, I mean, that just goes to show that you have to pay them well and treat them and treat them well. Right. That being said, if they leave, they leave. And you have to be, you have to be honest about it. Who, how many people have left EWC and started their own because EWC disrespected them? Now, if my team members, I think that I Treat them very well. They all get paid six figures. So, you know, like, yeah, we make quite a bit of money, but they all get paid six figures.

[Host]

So, you know, you're very.

[Jane Payne]

I recognize, it shows. I recognize the contribution and the sacrifices that they make, right? And they all know, I mean, I've given them personal loans in the tens of thousands, so they all know that I am there for them. That being said, I don't encourage people. If you're going to start out in this industry, there's only two ways to start out in this industry. Number one, you start, you open up your own shop and don't have any clients. Or two, you start somewhere and you take the clientele with you. Okay, let's be real. That's the only two ways. I mean, there's other. I guess there are other ways, but those really are the only two ways, right? If you do decide to start somewhere and take their clientele, I urge you not to do it to a small, like to a solo waxer, because karma, whereas. And if they treat you well, please don't do that to them. It's karma where if you do that to ewc who pays you minimum wage and they don't care about you and they just work you to death and, you know, it is never enough for them, that's a different story.

[Host]

And you know what? I haven't really heard anyone that's been on this podcast that's a waxer and they started at EWC saying something nice.

[Jane Payne]

Not one, not one. And I think it's because a lot of these owners are franchise owners and they're not waxers and they just come in it from a business perspective. And what I want to know, what I really want to ask them though, is this. You guys owners, before you bought into this franchise, you saw that, hey, you know, overhead is this much. Rent is this much. You're. You're going to pay your, your waxers this much? You really thought it was okay? You really thought that it was okay to pay them 14, 15 bucks and for them to live off of tips. You really thought that was okay?

[Host]

Giving them 25 Brazilians a day and.

[Jane Payne]

You know, like, you really thought that was okay.

[Host]

So that's not including the legs, underarms.

[Jane Payne]

Like, if I went into a business and it says that, hey, this is what you're going to pay your, your team members, I would be like, this is not going to work. This is a fractured business model. It's not going to work. But they go into it knowingly that that's fine for them. So if waxes leave, it's high turnover for them. That's on them. So do I encourage you leaving a toxic work environment? Yeah, I do. Damn.

[Host]

Damn. Is that why you think that you're. Your team has lasted so long with you? You know, you've had team members. What's your highest team? How long has she been there?

[Jane Payne]

Like, over 10 years. Over 10 years. And I mean. But don't get me wrong, if they ever leave, I get it. I've asked them, I've told them before that when I hire them, hey, this has to go both ways, right? You're not working for me. You're working with me. And if it doesn't work out for you, it doesn't work out for you. If you leave, I ask that you not open a place within 10 miles, which I think is fair. Right? But I mean, San Jose, 10 miles, you might as well be in, you know, like, three cities over. Okay?

[Host]

So, I mean, and. But they've stayed because obviously you treat them right and, you know, they see that. How much it is. It really is to open up your own. The overhead in. In general, I don't know your space. I see it online. It looks like. It looks on the busy street, which I don't really know San Jose, but it's not.

[Jane Payne]

It's not. But let me say this, though. Rika. They. People have asked Rika over and over again, like, are you gonna open your own place? And she always says this, and she's not joking. She's like, why would I want to compete against Jane? Like, I. I've seen how hard Jane works. Like, I can't compete against that. And don't get me wrong, Rika's very, very gifted and very, very talented, and she's a smart, smart girl. But I think that's also one of the reasons why people leave their. Their. Their, you know, their team is because they think that it's easy because all they see their owners doing is what's inside the treatment room. And they're like, I can do that too. But once your team member sees what you do, what she sees me waking up at 3am she sees the stuff that I study, and then I teach it to her. I actually actively teach it to her. And she's like, you studied all this, You've done all this, You've built all these systems. Then she's like, I don't want to do that. I want to sleep. And like. And I. And no disrespect, I get that she's Like, I want to go home and not have to worry about the. The war room. You know, I just want to be in the treatment room.

[Host]

Yeah. And that's okay.

[Jane Payne]

And that is completely fair and I respect that. And I think that there's. That's why there's a disconnect between a lot of mediocre business owners who should just be employees. Like, if you just want to stay in the treatment room, then you're a employee. Not, Not. No disrespect, but you have to admit that. But don't blame that on the industry. Okay. You just want to be inside the treatment room, then you're an employee. That's okay.

[Host]

I just. That couldn't has been any better than that. Clear. Because a lot of people, you know, they. Everyone wants to be a boss. Let's just get it for real. They go to esthetician school, they want to be a boss and they want. They think that it's a glorious life and they see you, the first thing that you. They're going to be like, well, I want to be a six figure waxer. I want to be this. But it's like they're not. Honestly, they're not. I don't want to discourage them and say that, but some people are just not built for it, you know, And.

[Jane Payne]

I think, I think you just have to be very aware of what your end goal is. If your end goal is to make X amount of money, go home and be stress free, then you're in this column. If your end goal is to have. Do not have to work as much inside the treatment room and have others work, then you have to be in this column. But it requires X, Y and Z up here. And I don't like, I think they just don't see, they don't understand. Everybody wants that end goal. No one's willing to sacrifice for it. So. Okay.

[Host]

Okay, you know what? I. Let me give you a little quick story before we. We end this. Going back to this. My boyfriend, right? He got laid off. And I never really talked about this, especially not on my podcast, but he got laid off last year and because the company closed down and X, Y and Z and you know, he left it all on me and I had to take care. I. It put.

[Jane Payne]

That's a lot.

[Host]

I just bought a house. Okay.

[Jane Payne]

Congratulations.

[Host]

Thank you. I have bought a house. I bought my dream car.

[Jane Payne]

Congratulations.

[Host]

I bought a very expensive dream car that I sometimes, you know, I don't regret it.

[Jane Payne]

I.

[Host]

But. And then, you know, I have this. So everything happened so quickly. And then, boom, he lost his job. Right. And then he wanted to be an entrepreneur. He sees me do it. He was like, babe, I want to do this. This, this. This. This is my goal. This is what I want to do. Can you help me? Can we do some stuff? And, you know, I helped him with his social media as much as I could. And then, you know what happened? It lasted two months.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

And he is the type of person that clocks in and clocks out.

[Jane Payne]

No disrespect.

[Host]

And no disrespect. And I told him, I said, you know, I. I just want you to know that if you're that type of person, there's nothing wrong with it. If you're the type of person to have that mindset, you want to go home. And because I had told him, when you're a boss and you're your own boss, it's never off. Never. You know what I mean?

[Jane Payne]

Never.

[Host]

You go to sleep and your brain is still thinking, and you wake up.

[Jane Payne]

It'S the first thing you think of.

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

And then there's certain times when you have cold sweatshirt, right?

[Host]

Oh, I hate the cold sweat.

[Jane Payne]

Oh, my God. I have to do okay.

[Host]

And then I have a fudgeing to do list every single day, even on my days off. Okay.

[Jane Payne]

There's no days off.

[Host]

That's what I'm saying. There is no fudgeing days off. So he didn't realize that. And it lasted two months. Two months of him trying. It didn't work, and he ended up going back to his old employer because they did a smaller business. And he. Now that's where he's at, but it just goes happy. And that's where he's happy. He clocks in, he clocks on. He has a weekends off, and he loves it, so.

[Jane Payne]

And I'm glad he realized what works for him and what doesn't. And there. There's a lot of people, and a lot of. There's a certain number of my students, too, where I'm like this. I understand what you want to do, but this is probably not where you're probably not ready for this yet. Because it's so much better in idea and in theory than in reality for you. Because in reality, it's different. It's just the reality of it is you can't just be in the treatment room. It doesn't work that way.

[Host]

Yeah, well. And it's the truth. And that's okay.

[Jane Payne]

And that's okay.

[Host]

That's okay. Now, last question before we're done.

[Jane Payne]

Yeah.

[Host]

Is there anything that you did first started out that makes you cringe or anything that you used to teach that you wish you could erase, anything that just cringes. You like old videos or old.

[Jane Payne]

I think the cringiest thing that.

[Host]

I'm going to laugh. Yeah, she's hilarious.

[Jane Payne]

I think the thing. Don't talk about politics in the treatment room, okay? Don't talk about politics in the treatment room. I've lost X amount of clients that way. And, like, I'm gonna be real with you, okay? Like, I think especially now in this politically divisive climate, like, it's just worse than it's ever been before. And I'm. I think I've done. Let me say this, okay? I think I've. I've. I've made maybe one story. I maybe made one post that people have seen, and they can say, okay, I can guess what her political leanings are, right? But it's not my entire personality. It's not like, that's not in my. In the treatment room, you guys know me as Lady Peng. But at Teddy Bear, they know me as Payne Jane, okay? And they paying Jane is one sliver of my personality, right? They do not need to see my clients, don't need to see all of me. They do not need to. Like, I think every one of us can agree that serial killers are bad, right? We all can agree on that. But I don't need to ask each and every one of my clients, are you a serial killer? Like, I don't need to know that about you. I really don't need to know that about you. I don't. I'm not going to ever have dinner with you. I'm never going to have, you know, coffee with you. We're never going to meet outside of here. Like, it's okay for us not to talk about politics. It's okay for us to talk about the Niners. I think that. And listen, if you're a waxer and you really feel strongly to be sure to go. Do you? Do you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying what works for me and what's right for me is that I'm not going to talk about politics with anybody. It's just. It's not. It's not worth it. I'm never going to change. Nothing you can say will change my mind. Nothing. So what makes me think that I can change your mind? Like, it.

[Host]

I just don't know how to argue. Like, you win. Yeah.

[Jane Payne]

No, really, like, what the earth is spot you. You got it. You got it.

[Host]

I don't have any energy. And I think we relate to each other a lot on that because I don't give a fudge, frankly. And I do. You know, there's political stuff that's going on, but there's. You're going to win. You know, I can't argue with one thing about that.

[Jane Payne]

Let me just say this, okay? Like, when you said, you know, we don't have the energy and you, like, you win. I marvel at people who have the energy to argue in my comment boxes, you know, in the comment box. Like, like, you know, remember, like the whole lash thing?

[Host]

Like, yeah.

[Jane Payne]

They were going back and forth and back and forth and you were going.

[Host]

Dude, it was crazy.

[Jane Payne]

It was crazy. It was crazy. Like, for a minute, like, I'm like. And the only reason why I engaged was to. To boost the engagement. Right? That's it. Yeah. But also, this is like our comment box. That's okay, right? But like, when people come into my comment box and they want to argue with me in my comment box, I'm like, great. You want to argue like, yeah, I'll boost the algorithm. But, but, like, do you really have that time? Do you really have that time and that energy? Okay. Okay, let's play. Okay. You know, tell me more about me. Sure.

[Host]

It, it's, it's. I love that, that take right there. Because, you know, political things right now, especially where we are and everything, just keep it to yourself. I don't really care.

[Jane Payne]

I mean, it's really.

[Host]

And that's, that's it.

[Jane Payne]

You want to say a thing or two. Have at it. But when it's your entire personality online, it's going to be very jarring and it's going to be very divisive. And if, if you're okay with that, then you're gonna. You're gonna have to deal with the repercussions of that. You're gonna deal with the fallout of that and, you know, not telling you not to have your moral beliefs, by all means, you do. You really need, though, to share it with everybody at all times. Okay. If you do, go for it.

[Host]

There you have it, folks. Well, how about videos?

[Jane Payne]

Real quick?

[Host]

I want any videos that you've made that you regret.

[Jane Payne]

I've had a couple videos. What do you mean?

[Host]

Like, content videos? Any cringe videos that you regret taking filming, whatever it is. I feel like all your videos have been doing really good. You know what my favorite videos are you trying to view where you have your chopsticks in your car?

[Jane Payne]

I don't like dirty fingers. Remember I told you I don't like touching shit.

[Host]

Okay?

[Jane Payne]

I don't like touching anything. I like touching food. I don't like touching chips because I don't want dirty. I don't know. It's dirty. I don't like. I don't like touching. I really don't. It's true.

[Host]

Those are my favorite video. Keep doing. Having the mic. Get your chopsticks, put your feet up.

[Jane Payne]

And then I'm yelling people, too.

[Host]

And you're yelling. Your person next to you is probably like, what?

[Jane Payne]

I'm just yelling at people and I'm like, whatever.

[Host]

Just.

[Jane Payne]

And I'm hungry all the time. Okay? So.

[Host]

Okay, well, we're always ended with a quote, but we're not doing that this season, right? We're gonna end it with the bang now.

[Jane Payne]

Okay?

[Host]

Is there anything you wanna tell the audience? Is there any questions you have for me? Anything that you want to be or just put yourself out there, Whatever.

[Jane Payne]

It is your audience with this. Okay?

[Host]

Okay.

[Jane Payne]

If you guys don't market, you don't care. It's simple as that. If you don't market, you don't care, okay? So if you don't market, you can't cry about it. If you don't market, you don't care about your business. That's is. It's that simple. So you can say all you want. I, you know, I just want to wax. I don't want to have to go on Tik tok. I don't want to have to. You don't care. So just. Why don't you just say it? Say it out loud. You don't care. We're cool with that. You and I are cool.

[Host]

She broke a lot of heart saying that. Because a lot of people say that. I want to be a waxer. I want to be.

[Jane Payne]

I don't want to market, but I do it. You're right, because I'm a big girl. I'm actually a little girl. Okay? But I do big girl things, okay? I market. You guys see it all like, I market. So if you don't care, I mean, if you don't market, you don't care.

[Host]

Clearly, she's marketing. Because listen, from season, the season you're.

[Jane Payne]

On till now, we got bigger.

[Host]

Let's add an applause button. Marlo, please give it up for the pain. Please. Thank you so much for coming.

[Jane Payne]

Thank you for so much for having.

[Host]

Me flying out for another season.

[Jane Payne]

Anytime.

[Host]

And you know what? Every season's going to get better. Because can I tell you really quick before this ends. The amount of people that said, ring Lady Ping, Ring Lady Ping, we need her back. The amount of people that message us and tell us, that was the best episode.

[Jane Payne]

Although.

[Host]

Although.

[Jane Payne]

I'm sure all the lash texts. Okay. And then they'll text maybe after today. Can we be friends? You guys, can we be friends? Let's be friends.

[Host]

Just drop the mic.

[Jane Payne]

Love you. Thank you.

[Host]

Yes. We'll see you soon. Okay.