The Problems with Eyebrow Threading & At Home Eyebrow Shaving + How Do Brow Artists ACTUALLY Make 6 Figures

Summary

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Beauty with a Twist – S5E12: The Problems with Eyebrow Threading & At Home Eyebrow Shaving + How Do Brow Artists ACTUALLY Make 6 Figures?

Host: Dede
Guest: Kylie Villalobos (“Kalon by Kylie”)
Release Date: October 31, 2025

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Episode Overview

This candid and insightful season finale welcomes Kylie Villalobos—a.k.a. “the brow boss of the Bay Area”—to peel back the layers of the modern brow industry. Dede and Kylie dig into eyebrow horror stories, why Kylie swears off certain brow practices, the truth about six-figure artists, building clientele from the most humble beginnings, pricing strategies, setting boundaries, and the evolving trends of brows. The episode is filled with entrepreneurial wisdom, technical deep dives, and plenty of unfiltered “tea.”

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Meet the Guest: Kylie Villalobos

(01:16 – 04:31)

• Kylie shares her journey: 10+ years in the beauty industry, focused on brows for the last 6–7 years.
• Early days: Did it all—lashes, facials, body waxing—before realizing brows were her true calling.
• Kylie’s “origin story”:
  • Started doing brows in her parents’ small bathroom.
  • “The embarrassment! I literally had people sitting on the toilet.” (04:15, Kylie)
  • Built clientele through friends, maintained relationships with clients—some of whom have returned many years later.
• Inspiration: “You can start from anywhere… even in your restroom.” (06:19, Dede)

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Climbing the Ladder: Transitioning to Professional Spaces

(07:01 – 13:42)

• First salon job: Only esthetician at a hair salon, working with Eminence Organics and doing facials.
• Microblading license was a turning point but hit roadblocks with unsupportive ownership.
• Early lessons:
  • From believing “talent alone = clients” to learning “it takes grind, consistency, and patience.”
  • “You have to fail at some things in order to learn.” (09:22, Kylie)
  • The brow industry “popped off” after COVID—brows and lashes saw huge demand upticks.
• Both Dede and Kylie recall trying risky at-home lamination during lockdown, leading to some wild brow mishaps.

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Why Brows Matter

(10:33 – 11:46)

• “You can have bad lashes and nobody will notice. But you have bad brows—that’s the first thing people see.” (10:48, Kylie)
• Dede: “The brows are the face. Let’s be real.” (10:35)

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Building a Lasting Business: The Hustle Behind the Scenes

(13:16 – 17:44)

• Early business was slow to grow—Kylie worked three jobs at one point.
• Growth didn’t take off until she moved back to the Bay Area and put full faith (and “God, if this is for me, make it happen” energy) into her brow business.
• The real turning point: Consistency and trusting the process.
  • “All of a sudden my videos started hitting numbers... totally like a God moment.” (15:15)
• Kylie now supports her family through her brow business.

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Growing on Social Media & Marketing

(16:27 – 19:23)

• Instagram is Kylie’s “love child” where most clients find her.
• Consistency is key:
  • “People don’t do the work. They expect stuff to just come to them and it doesn’t happen.” (17:46, Kylie)
  • Daily posting, sharing availability, reaching out to clients—show up even when “the algorithm is down.”
• Advice: “If you’re not posting, how are they gonna see [your work]?... If you’re not putting it out there, you can’t just expect business to flow.” (19:32, Kylie)

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Pricing, Upskilling, and Industry Trends

(20:12 – 25:27)

• Waxing is low-ticket; laminations and tints increased Kylie’s earnings.
• Early prices: $15–$20 for a wax, now $65 for a new client—and she’s not even charging the area’s highest rates ($90+ exists!).
• Experience matters:
  • “I specialize in making sure your shape is correct… we talk through your goals, fill them in, show them products... I guarantee you’ll be happy with your results.” (23:32, Kylie)
• Session times:
  • Wax: ~1 hour for new clients (but quality over speed).
  • Lamination: up to 2 hours; more complex.
• Quality over quantity: “Getting brows right is not rushed. It’s art—you can’t just rush through art.” (25:01, Kylie)

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The Six-Figure Brow Myth & Self-Care

(28:44 – 34:00)

• “Six-figure estheticians don’t work 7 days a week. You’re not making six figures by being booked out nonstop. Delegation is important.” (29:25, Dede & Kylie)
• The importance of boundaries, strategic scheduling (four days a week, plus some Saturdays), and family time.
• Burnout is real:
  • “You need a breather to get back into it… If I’m doing it so much that I’m killing myself, it’s not enjoyable or fun.” (31:39, Kylie)
• The job doesn’t end on the salon floor; social media, communications, and business admin are 24/7 tasks.

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Boundaries, Clients, and Emotional Labor

(34:00 – 38:50)

• Kylie learned the hard way: over-accommodating clients leads to burnout—now boundaries (“If it’s the 4th time you’ve cancelled last minute, I have to charge you”—34:43, Kylie)
• Debate: should you be friends with your clients?
  • “You become a friend with your client quicker than your friends will become your client.” (36:02, Kylie)
  • Good clients respect boundaries, pay on time, and don’t take advantage of the relationship.
• On tipping and pricing:
  • “Your pricing should cover what you need. Tip is gratuity, not an expectation.” (39:02, Kylie)

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Eyebrow Nightmares, Threading, and At-Home Shaving

(40:19 – 47:08)

• Kylie’s biggest brow “ick”:
  • At-home shaving and tweezing. “Throw away your at-home razors… why are you doing your eyebrows yourself?” (40:41, Kylie)
  • Parents of teens beware: “The little teen girls are doing it themselves at home, and it’s driving me nuts.” (41:04)
• Worst client behaviors:
  • New clients who bash previous artists—major red flag.
• Disaster fixes:
  • Most disasters (especially from mall threading or DIY) can’t be fixed in one session—brow rehab takes time and patience.
    • “What’s your long-term goal for your brows? Nobody asks that.” (47:05, Kylie)
• Threading tea:
  • “If you’re going to the places in the mall, you better expect to come out with half your brow gone… it’s not the threading’s fault, it’s the artist.” (44:28, Kylie)
  • Hygiene and speed (“thread in the mouth”) get called out too.

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Trends: What’s In & Out, and Brow Service Preferences

(47:25 – 50:20)

• Thin brows (a la 90’s) are coming back, but “not for everybody”—the TikTok/teen trend cycle.
  • “I’m so sorry, we’re not doing the crazy thin.” (48:07, Kylie)
• Both Dede and Kylie love a full but clean, sculpted brow—a “fuller, more natural” look that’s still proportionate, not exaggerated.

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Product & Brand Hot Takes (“The Tea”)

(50:22 – 58:57)

• Lamination/tint brand favorites and fails—names are omitted for legal protection, but there’s heavy hinting.
• Kylie: “I’m so sorry… I just tried it recently. I’m not with it.” (51:06, Kylie re: a popular lamination line)
• Discussion of “cocktailing” steps from different brands for optimal lamination.
• Bronson Tints called “very underrated—I think a lot of people don’t know how to use it well.” (56:58)
• Brow Daddy products get high praise for both tints and PMU pigments, but the longevity marketing around microblading in the past is called out. “They really lied to us… that it would fade in three years. No, it’s not.” (59:21, Kylie)

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Working as a Six-Figure Artist: Reality Check

(28:44 – 34:00, revisited briefly at 33:34)

• Six-figure income is not about seeing more clients, but maximizing service value, building boundaries, delegating tasks, and leveraging social media.
• Hiring help, “wearing every hat,” and knowing when to scale or step back is essential.

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Memorable Quotes

“You can have bad lashes and nobody will notice, but you have bad brows? That’s the first thing people see.”
Kylie, 10:48

“You become a friend with your client quicker than your friends will become your client.”
Kylie, 36:02

“If you’re going to the places in the mall... you better expect to come out with half your brow gone. It’s not the threading’s fault—it’s the artist.”
Kylie, 44:28

“People don’t do the work… they expect stuff to just come to them and it doesn’t happen.”
Kylie, 17:46

“Be Kalon: beauty more than skin deep. It’s more than outward beauty… it’s from the inside out.”
Kylie, 60:45

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Kylie’s Backstory: 0:17 – 6:46
• From Side Hustle to Full-Time: 7:01 – 9:22
• COVID Impact on Brows: 9:33 – 10:25
• The Power of Brows: 10:33 – 11:46
• Business Growth & Social Media: 13:16 – 19:23
• Pricing Evolution: 20:12 – 25:27
• Workweek & Burnout: 26:53 – 34:00
• The Boundaries Conversation: 34:00 – 38:50
• Client Red Flags & Horror Stories: 39:03 – 44:28
• Trends & Aesthetic Preferences: 47:25 – 50:20
• Product/Brand “Tea”: 50:22 – 58:57
• Permanent Makeup Realness: 59:04 – 60:23
• Closing Quote: 60:45

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

For Aspiring Brow Artists:

• You can start anywhere—humble beginnings can still lead to a thriving business.
• Consistency, real hustle, and patience build long-term success; there are no shortcuts in this industry.
• Post regularly, upskill with new techniques (lamination, tinting), and never stop learning about products.
• Setting boundaries (scheduling, pricing, client expectations) is vital for sustainability.

For Clients:

• Brow grooming is an art; respect the process, don’t DIY between appointments.
• Your artist is a business owner, not just a service provider—respect their boundaries, time, and value.

On the Industry:

• Trends shift (and come back again); what matters is customizing to the face and the client.
• The best brow artists charge based on experience, results, and overall “in-chair” experience, not just the service itself.

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Closing Note

Kylie’s personal mantra—“Kalon: beauty more than skin deep”—sums up the heart of her philosophy and the episode: great brows are empowering, artistry matters, and genuine entrepreneurship goes far beyond the surface.

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For the full vibe and practical gems, listen in to the full episode!

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys.

[B]

Welcome back to another episode and season of Beauty with a Twist. I'm super excited for this week's episode because we have a special guest before we get to her. This is our last episode for this season, so thank you guys for tuning in for season five, and we'll hope to see you in season six. So go ahead and introduce yourself.

[A]

Hi, you guys. My name is Kylie Villalobos, and I am known for. Watch. I'm on Instagram as K Lawn by Kylie, the brow boss of the Bay Area. Yes, that's right. I do browse, basically. I am located in San Jose, California, and. Yeah.

[B]

Well, thank you for being here.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

She flew out here, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When did you land, tiny? At like, 12 today. So I've been here all day long. All day.

[B]

And you know what? It's. I never have guests when they land because I've gotten, you know, gas out, flown out, but they're like, come do it early because they want to, like, so. Thank you so much because I love filming during the evening time.

[A]

Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

[B]

Because I feel like the line.

[A]

Yes, yes. With a darker background. I get it, girl.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm just like. I don't mind it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I'm like. I just love that lighting.

[A]

I get it, actually, because it is. It's like the dark behind and then the bright. Bright.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about yourself, your business.

[A]

Well, I've been in the industry for 10ish years. I got my license in 20, end of 2015, early 2016. So I've been doing this for a long time, and I love it, but I really didn't, like, grow that much until the last, like, three or four years. I moved all over the place. I've been doing a little bit of everything, but I really honed in on brows the last, like, six, seven years, and I just. I love it.

[B]

What were you doing before browse?

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I did everything. So I. When I was in school, I was working at a lash extension salon, and I learned really quickly. Lashes were not for me. My first set, I swear. I. So I did it with one of my girlfriends, and it took me, I think, almost 10 hours. Stop. And it was like. And this was classics. So after we were done, I was like, well, where's that? Yeah, where's the lashes? It looks no different. I'm like, what is this? Yeah. And I was like, no, this is not for me. I think I knew for a long time That I, like, enjoyed brows or had an eye for it when I was in school is the first one you asked who wants to wax the girl's brows? And I was like, me right away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. But I did facials. I worked with Eminence Organics for a long time. Yeah. So I did facials, and I liked facials, but I felt like, again, it's like my back was tired. It wasn't that, like, instant gratitude in. Oh, sorry.

[B]

No.

[A]

Instant gratification, the way that, like, browses. And so I slowly moved on from that. I've done Lash Lives. I've done. What else did I do? Makeup. I've done a little bit of everything, so. Yeah. But I fell in love with brows and been doing that ever since.

[B]

Okay, so you did a majority of, like, everything?

[A]

A little bit, yeah. Yeah. I did, like, body waxing, too, and. Same thing. It was like, I liked it. I never did coochie waxing. No. No. I'm scared.

[B]

Not even in school. Like, you tried it?

[A]

No, they didn't do any of that in school. I was kind of pissed because I felt like they didn't, honestly. Well, you know, aesthetic school is, like, the very basics. They cover very minimal things. They get you out the door to pass through state board. That was it. Yeah. But no, we didn't do any. I remember we didn't even do, like, practice, like, body waxing. I was, like, really surprised, actually, now that I think back of it, I don't remember doing.

[B]

And I feel like back then, soft flex was such a big thing, so I'm surprised that they didn't show that. But you know what? I'm not. I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's state. Yeah. And I was at the state college.

[B]

Or the community college, so.

[A]

So it was probably, like, even more, like getting. Get out. Yeah.

[B]

So then what brought you? I mean, you already had, like, an itch for brows, but what made you, like, full commitment?

[A]

Honestly, I really. This is gonna sound so braggy. It's gonna sound so braggy. But I feel like I always had the, like, the skill, the eye, the, like, thing for it. Truly, like. And I'm not to say it like, I think I'm just the best, but I do think, like, I have a really good eye for it. A lot of people, like, really rely on mapping. I feel like I trust my instincts a lot, and that was something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That was something I felt like I just had. And so I knew for some weird reason that, like, brows was my Path. I mean I literally started doing brows out of the bathroom of my parents bathroom. Girl, the embarrass. I literally had people sitting on the toilet.

[B]

Family.

[A]

Yes. No. Yeah. At my parents house. No. I'm not kidding.

[B]

And they're a pain.

[A]

I'm not. Girl, I'm not kidding.

[B]

I need to hear.

[A]

Yeah. I even thinking back to this. This is so embarrassing. I had literally people who I didn't know. I remember had a lady the sweetest. This woman.

[B]

Wait, how big was this restroom? Hold on back to the rest.

[A]

I mean it was probably like, like, like the size of this. If the walls were closed in. Okay. Like a tub and like a 2 sink.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thing and then a toilet. And what would you sit them on the. Take a wild guess take. Where are they sitting? Yeah, girl, I remember this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I still. I'm not kidding. So I had this. I remember this one woman who like I guess was referred by friends. Obviously when I started out it was like. Friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it wasn't like I just had a bunch of random people coming to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But this woman had been referred and I remember telling my dad, I was like, okay, like everyone leave. Because I was living in my parents house. I'm like, she's going to come stay. And I'm like, I cannot believe I'm doing this. In the bathroom. She sat on the toilet. I literally did her brows. She, you know, showed her in the mirror. She left. I still to this day I have like like, what's it called? Like secondhand embarrassment. She come back. Good question. I don't remember. That was. This was like 10 years ago.

[B]

You know what everyone. That's such a good story to tell because everyone starts.

[A]

But I did have, I did have clients who've come back since then and obvious. Some of them were like again friends that have come through. But yeah, I've had people come back from. Even when I like was in Covid. I had people over to my house. We did in my living room when I was in an apartment. Yeah. I've had like clients for years.

[B]

So you know what, that just shows like they're your ride or die.

[A]

You can start from anywhere.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In your restroom.

[A]

Okay. Embarrassing. You know what? You can.

[B]

No, but you know what? That's just so inspirational because someone that wants to start but they're like I literally don't have anywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fix up your restroom and start in there.

[A]

Just do it. Yeah, there's. There should be nothing stopping you. Really like girl, you can sit on the Street. Do it if you really, really want to do it. There you go. Yeah. And you advertise as that. Yeah. Marketing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I'm so. Okay. Okay, so let's run it back. So we did. We did the rouse in the restroom. So did you realize, okay, I need to go under someone to work at their salon? Or you kind of just went straight solo?

[A]

No, so I started. That's when I got out of school. I got a job as an esthetician, the only esthetician at a hair salon. So I was in, like, the back room, and that's when I was working with, like, Eminence Organics, was doing facials, and I was doing some body wax. I was doing a little bit of everything at that point. And I had also just gotten licensed for microblading. So that also, I think, was a big catalyst for brows.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I knew I wanted to keep doing that. And. Oh, the owner of that place was psycho. She was this, like. Yeah, she was this probably, like, in her, like, 50s. Like, just. I feel like, just didn't have any spark of happiness in her life. And so she just made everyone's life miserable. And she was owner. She was the owner. And every single hairstylist talked mad shit about her. Like, just. It was. It was horrible. I mean, I felt bad, but also, she was awful. She didn't, like, communicate anything she needed for me. I was told over and over and over again that she was going to get, like, the insurance or something to do microblading. And I really wanted to follow that path because I knew it was going to be good at that time. It was. That was, like, the really popular thing. And she just kind of said, yes, yes, yes. And then one day came back and was like, no, I'm not going to do it. Like, just kind of out of the blue. And I was. From that day, I was like, yeah, she. She just told me, like, no. And so I knew right there, I was like, I'm not. I don't want to work with this lady. I don't work for her anymore. So I, like, took a random leap of faith, and I went and worked. I got my own little spot, like a tiny, little, like, really tiny room in the back of somebody else's brow salon. And so I didn't, like, work directly under her, but I, like, worked sort of with her because her and I had gone to school together.

[B]

Okay, so were you, like, an hourly or you kind of booth rented from her?

[A]

I was just renting from her.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And I don't know how I did. I thought I was only there for a couple months, but I was looking back at my numbers and, like, everything else not that long ago. I was there for probably, like, six months. And I don't know how I afforded the rent. I don't know how I did it. I kept telling my dad because he was like, girl, you're not going to. You're not going to. It's not going to be this easy. Because I kept thinking, like, I'm going to blow up. What do you mean? I'm. I know. I'm good. Yeah. And he was right. It didn't blow up. You know, I should have listened to my dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He was a big businessman, but I should have. But it's okay. You know, you live and learn, and you have to. You have to fail at some things in order to learn that. And they go.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's how I've learned all my best lessons from failing. So. Yeah.

[B]

And you know what I feel like during the. When. What year was this?

[A]

2016. 2017.

[B]

Yeah. And kind of. It wasn't like. I feel like this whole thing of brows wasn't, like, a thing.

[A]

It was not even estheticians was like. It was a very, like, minimal. It's popped off. I think even from, like, Covid to now. Covid was like, a huge change. Yeah. For, like, brow industry. Eyelashes, eyes.

[B]

I literally don't want to tag. I'm literally. Okay, Marlon, maybe we can insert a picture. But I had the worst brow lamination ever. And can I tell you something? I did it myself.

[A]

Right. But again, Covid.

[B]

It was the peak of COVID Yeah. And this is one. We liked him straight up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, what the girl, was I doing?

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

And I have a picture, and I. I archived it on my personal Instagram. I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? Like, this is straight up.

[A]

Posted it.

[B]

I did.

[A]

Hey, you were proud. You're proud. You did it. You were proud.

[B]

I look back and I'm like, okay.

[A]

This is not it.

[B]

This is not it.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And the brows are the face.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Let's be real.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I know that lash extensions are a thing, and I know that it's like your eyes, but when I look at you, I don't know. I don't know if it's just me, but I look at your brows. Oh, automatically, girl.

[A]

You can have bad lashes and nobody will notice, but you have bad brows. That's the first thing people see. Yeah. That's the first thing people See, especially, like, you know, you look at someone's face, you see a bad brow. That's what you notice. You can have no lashes and good brows, and it's like, great. You can have bad lashes and. Or, I'm sorry, you can have bad brows and great lashes, and that's all they see, the bad brows. It really is. Yeah. It's. It's a huge, huge part of the beauty.

[B]

And obviously, like, I can tell when they're not symmetrical. Like, I can tell when they're. What. What's the saying of brows?

[A]

Sisters? Not twins, but the girl. Sometimes they are distant cousins. They are not related. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I wish I could show you a picture. I had someone send me somebody's brows that they had done themselves. And I still, to this day, I'm like, how did you get to that? They were like, I still can't understand, like, people do, but they. She had them like. Like, triangled out, like, on the out. I. Girl, I wish I could show you.

[B]

Like, the Nike symbol. Like, opposite reverse.

[A]

Yes, like an opposite Nike. And I'm like, how did you get to this point? Where are your. Where is your geometrics go? I don't know, but it's. It's. It's rough. It's the first thing you notice. Yeah. No, it is. Yeah.

[B]

So then after you were there for about six months, then you decided to move somewhere else or.

[A]

I. I think I just couldn't keep up with the rent and everything. And I felt like I was struggling at that time because that was only thing I was doing. I really took a leap. I didn't take any other jobs. I was just doing that. And then I decided to go work for another, like, salon who I. A friend had worked with. And so she. I'm trying to think, gosh, what did I do? I was doing some. I wasn't doing hourly. I was doing, like, I think commission.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I would bring clients in for that and then covet, I think, hit like a couple, like, a year later or something like that. So I was working other jobs. I think at the time. I worked for, like, Chili's or something. I was working as a bartender, actually. No, I was working for Nordstrom. Right before I. I was a manager at Nordstrom for the Clinique. I was a counter manager for Clinique.

[B]

Oh, my God, sister. I was. I was a counter manager for Longcomb. Amazing.

[A]

We were literally across from each other. That's what Lancome and Clinique always.

[B]

Yes, always.

[A]

We were weird.

[B]

I don't miss that era.

[A]

No, I don't either. I don't miss. I don't miss anything in that world either. Customer service, any of that stuff.

[B]

I went out, I was stuck in my fucking cubicle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Okay, we're not going to get into it, but. Yeah, I feel you okay.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And then Covid hit and everything shut down, and I literally. Yeah, I lived out of my little apartment. We had a client every once in a while. Um, but honestly, like, if I'm being, like, completely honest, my business wasn't, like, booming at that point. Like, it was still. I was still very struggling. And this is like 4ish years into the business. Like, I. I hadn't, like, gotten anywhere yet.

[B]

Like, during COVID too.

[A]

No, Covid didn't really change much for me. I really. Yeah, I really just worked other jobs for a while. I, like, would take clients on the side and so. Because I knew was my passion, but, like, nothing had, like, really popped off until, like, two, three years ago. Truly, like, my business hasn't, like, it was not like, a huge growth over time. It was like, yeah, like three years ago because I was living. We'd moved from. I mean, my husband is from Fresno, so we'd moved out to Fresno. I'd opened a small salon there. So I was, like, still really set on, like, growing my business, and it hadn't grown. Yeah. And so we were like, well, like, screw this. We're driving back and forth from Fresno. Do you. Do you. You know where Fresno is in comparison? It's a three and a half hour drive. We're doing that every single weekend for my sweet stepdaughter. And then one day we're like, screw this. Let's go back to the Bay Area. When we moved back, that's where, like, all of a sudden, like, it was like a. This is gonna sound so weird, but it was kind of like a spiritual moment. I was like, in my apartment and I was like, I. My business is not growing. Nothing is happening. I was working three jobs, so I was working Chili's as a bartender waitress. I was working clients as my second. And then I was also working for a classic car wash. I was doing sales, which hated. Horrible. Greatest job ever. And then I was, like, crying because I got up to get to work, and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to go to this job. I just want to do brows.

[B]

I.

[A]

But I was, like, having a moment where I was like, okay, like, God, if you don't Want me to do this? Like, if this is not for me, like, make it not for me. And I was like, but if it's for me, like, make it happen. Like something. Something has to change. I don't know what it is. I've been working really hard, but I'll put the next three months into this. And I'm not kidding, like, the next, like the next month, I think I had 10 new clients. And then the next month was like 20. And then all of a sudden my videos started, like, hitting numbers. Yes. And that was the Lord. It was. It was totally like a God moment where I was like, I think I just needed to, like, really hone in and say, like, is this for me or is this not for me? Because if it's not, like, yeah, cut it off. And it's. Since then it's been. I mean, I've. I'm just gonna sound, sorry. Love you, hubby. But I pay the bills. I cover all of our stuff. I cover extras. You know, we get to go on nice trip, we get to do stuff. We're now we were in a tiny studio, the three of us. We are in a three bedroom.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Like, you know, like, things just like grew. And it was like from blessings and stuff like that. But I mean, business over. It was like crazy. Yeah.

[B]

Because your page is just.

[A]

Wow, girl, it's popping off. Yeah, I. I don't know. I don't know. You're on the podcast. It's up and off.

[B]

Okay. It is.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy. And I don't. It's like even on the lower. I know right now, like, algorithm. Algorithm is down. But even. It's so freaking down. I don't know why, but even. To be honest, even my back, My, like, my back house numbers, they're still high. I don't know how, like. But it's lower than what it was at my peak.

[B]

It was so it was just Instagram, not Tik Tok.

[A]

Tik Tok is like, got some growth to it. But no, Instagram is definitely my, like, my little, like, love child. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And I feel like your story helps a lot of people because they're like, oh, my gosh, if it's not for me, then God, take it away from me because it's like, people. I feel like struggling right now and especially there's so much going on with inflation and the economy is just freaking messed up that a lot of people are giving up on the beauty industry.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Even though it's oversaturated. But I feel like especially is that someone just that does brows. Like, how many freaking brows can I do to make this type of income? Right?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

But it's like everyone is just slowly, if this is for me, then it's for me.

[A]

If it's not.

[B]

And they're just giving up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. Well. And I think that's the hardest thing is, is I think I took that instead of saying, like, I'm just going to give up. I'm going to put my all into this. Because I felt like upset when I was working. I was doing it, I was hustling. But I really, like, took all of a sudden a moment and just be like, no, I actually need to put the work in. Because I think a lot of people. This is going to sound also really messed up. A lot of people don't do the work. They don't do the work. Like, it's true. Like, I think that was a thing. People expect stuff to just come to them and it doesn't happen. Like, you actually do have to put in the work. Like, you didn't. You girl, didn't just get here from like lounging around and like posting a few videos every once in a while. Like, you put in the work. Yeah, yeah. This is not like an. And it's not an overnight industry. It takes a lot of effort and failing and life to be able to like, get to this point.

[B]

So. And that's the thing I feel like nowadays it's like, if I just post a video and I just post that I'm available, then I should get books.

[A]

Yeah. And you post once a week. Yeah, you post once a week. You post on your story like once a month.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, no, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. That was like. The other thing too is like, I started, I was posting daily. I was like looking back into it. My little, you know that little calendar you can look at. Oh, yeah. You know, you see what you've like posted throughout. I was like, girl, I was every single day of the month. I'm like, how do I have the time even now? I'm not doing that now. But I was like, I was putting in the work every single day posting something. I was posting what my availability was. I was making sure I was reaching out to clients. You put it. I was putting in the work for it.

[B]

So is that some, like, tips that you would give someone that's in the industry or wanting to be in the industry? Like, if especially For a bra artist.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest is just do it. Just. Just put the effort in. And if you're. I think, like a lot of people, I was this way, like, nitpick over what they, like, post or what they do. Just start posting something. Like, there is so many people in the world. I know it's. It feels oversaturated, but, like, you. There's somebody for you. And, like, if you're not posting it, how are they going to see that? Or if you're not making, like, you're not reaching out to your clients, like, doing referrals, or if you're not, I don't know, posting sales or something, if you're not doing it. You can't just expect, like, business to flow to you if you're not putting it out there. Yeah. You know, so, yeah, absolutely. I would say putting it out there.

[B]

Working, but also, like, eyeballs. If you're barely starting, it's not a big ticket, right?

[A]

No, it's not. And if you're just doing waxing, it's not a big ticket. That was the other thing. I wasn't making the money off of waxing. It was all of a sudden tints and laminations. And I think I told you earlier, I was like, the class that I took with dilemma, like, changed my whole game because I wasn't doing laminations at that point. That added a huge ticket price to my, like, services, which was great.

[B]

So then how much did you start in the beginning, charging and where you're at now?

[A]

So I think at the beginning, when I charged for lamination. Well, even brow waxes, I think back, I was charging, like, 15, $20. I'm at 65 for a new client.

[B]

Wait, can we, like, snip that? Like.

[A]

Yeah, I'm 65 for a new client.

[B]

Let's. Okay, you got to say that, girl.

[A]

I'm 65 for a new client for eyebrow. That's for an eyebrow wax. But girl. Okay, can I say something? This is going to also be crazy. There is a girl, and I'm not going to say her name. I'm not going to say anything. There is a. Another woman in the Bay Area who charges, I think, 90 for a brow wax. And this woman, I don't know her personally. Her salons, pristine and gorgeous, but she posts as if she's booked out, like, for the year.

[B]

What?

[A]

And I.

[B]

This was a marketing message.

[A]

I mean, I know it. I know. I mean, me and my other friends are like. So is she really. Is she really, like, booked out Marketing. I know. But. But is she. She's on that and she, she's convincing on that market.

[B]

Okay. To see her page after.

[A]

But I will.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Can you imagine 9090 bringing people in and you're 24 long.

[B]

Is this eyebrow wax? Okay, well.

[A]

And I'm going to be also honest. This is also really mean. She does a basic job 20 minutes. I don't know, maybe 30 maybe. But I'm like, she doesn't do anything that. Where you're like what? Yeah, kind of like. Okay, yeah, you're, you know, but 90s wild. What wild. I'm like, I'm charging, I think one. So I charge 175 for brow lamination for a new.

[B]

And you know what? Yeah, I love that though because I, when I tell people my prices, I mean maybe it's the area. I don't know. I don't know guys.

[A]

California.

[B]

You know what, you're right.

[A]

We live in California. I like rent is insane. Everything is eggs. Eggs are like 15.

[B]

You're like error one, they're 25.

[A]

It's insane.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's insane.

[B]

Let me say. Okay, my. I charge 150 bra lamy and 10.

[A]

Yeah, there you go.

[B]

But okay, but, but you know what? I, I started charging. It was, I was. In the beginning it was cheaper and then it just obviously went. Yeah, higher because of product cost.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Okay. So it's all, it's different.

[A]

It's a whole compilation of things.

[B]

I not surprised to hearing that. 175 because eventually I'm going to raise them up when obviously inflation is not as word thought but 65. Great for you.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah, 65. And then my returning clients is 45. So down it goes down. Yeah, those people are. Those people are in every couple of weeks, you know.

[B]

But tell me the 65. I'm gaining an experience, right?

[A]

Oh yeah, girl.

[B]

I want to know you hang out with me. I love it.

[A]

I'm worth the 65. Let me.

[B]

Okay, tell me what it includes because I know people are going to be like.

[A]

Yeah, what is the 65 come with.

[B]

And you better putting. You, you better put your whole everything into this. My in these brows right now.

[A]

Well, I specialize in making sure 1. Your shape is correct. If we're working on growth, we're gonna have a Coke growth program. So we're gonna prep with all that. Obviously waxing is included. We are going to do a nice massage. We do everything and then we talk through obviously like what the goals are for you long term. So this, this is an investment. $65. And then it's only a little bit to the long term goals. We, I fill them in, we do everything. I show them products. It's not crazy, but it's worth.

[B]

No, but that sounds like book me.

[A]

But I, Yeah, girl. I mean, book me, look me.

[B]

No, but it sounds, it sounds like an experience already. Like a little massage and then after.

[A]

Again, you get to hang out with me and talk to me. Yeah. And you know. No, but it truly, I, again, I'm not to say I, you know what? No, I am going to brag. I do know. I do a great job. And like, I've had so many clients who have come in who have been in multiple other great brow artists and who have felt like, you know, it was rushed or was this or is that. And they, they just don't get one. The experience or to the results. And I can tell you, I will guarantee you, you come into my salon, you will get the results. You'll be happy with your results.

[B]

Now let me ask you, so how long does it take you to do the brow wax?

[A]

So my first appointment for new clients, I book it at an hour.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it's not, I don't take the whole hour.

[B]

40 minutes.

[A]

Yeah, usually. But I take my time. This is the other thing is, I think a lot of brow artists are trying to get people in and out. And it's not a rushed thing. Like, getting brows right is not a rushed thing. It's a, it is like an artist. Like there's something to it. And you can't just, it's an art. You can't just rush through art. Like, you absolutely have to take your time and that's how you're going to get every little perfect hair in the right spot. You're going to remove the right. Right hairs, whatever you need. But it's absolutely an art. Like, it's, it's not to be rushed. So my normal waxes, when I know when I'm like, they've come back second time, it's half that time.

[B]

Yeah. Because you already know their brow. I got it.

[A]

You got it everything.

[B]

So how about brow lamy lammies?

[A]

I definitely book longer because it does laminate. Change your brows.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you can't just wax the same. No, you can't rush it one, because you don't know how their hairs are going to be treated and everything. But also you, it does change as you lay your brows, it changes how you should be waxing them. Like, you don't just wax Them in the normal, like, way that you do with a normal. Just brow shaping.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you have to be aware of the hairs that you've laid where you positioned them. There's a lot more to it. So it's probably. My first client will be about two hours. Yeah. So it's not quick. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But you know what? The fact that you take your time just shows a lot. Because there's a lot of people that charge that.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[B]

Around the same price, but they're like, oh, I can get them in an hour. Like an hour less than that.

[A]

No, but that's. Yeah. Why. Why rush it? I mean, I get you're making your more. More money in your time, but in my head, I'm like, that's not. That's not worth it. Because if you screw it up, they're not coming back to you. Exactly. You're out on money on that, and so I'd rather not risk it.

[B]

So. So do you work, like, seven days or you work six or.

[A]

I've cut my days down.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm tired. I'm tired, girl. I do. So officially, I do Tuesday through Friday every single week, and I do every other Saturday. So Sundays and Mondays are fully off, and then every other Saturday because I have my stuff done with me, and I want to spend that time with her.

[B]

And usually how many clients?

[A]

Like, I mean, I have full days, so I'm usually there from nine to, like, seven on pretty much every day. And that's, like, back to back. And I'm not good at giving myself lunch. Isn't that the struggle? My husband gets so mad at me, but I'm like, I don't plan. I 1. My booking app doesn't set that up, so.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Mine doesn't. It doesn't set that way. So I'm not going to do it. If I have a break, I will eat. But I. Yeah, it.

[B]

It only sets it up if I do. If I put exactly.

[A]

I have. But I have to manually do it every day. I'm not doing it.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I'll get break. And I'm 15 minutes. Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, in between clients. Like, I have, like, 10 minutes. Like, I'll be fine.

[A]

I'll finish that client early. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I feel like if, you know, you know, like, I really don't eat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, where is this weight coming from?

[A]

Home, girl. I don't know how this double chin.

[B]

Happens, but I'm starving myself. Marlowe needs to edit this double chin, but Let me tell you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I try my hardest to, you know, but I just feel like someone wants to come in at this time or someone opening or a walk in it. And am I going to say no?

[A]

No. If you're there and you're working, you should be working.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what those days are for. That's why. But that's why I cut my days because I was like, I need an extra day. Yeah. And during the summer, I actually took Tuesdays off too, because my stepdaughter, when she's with us, it's Monday, Tuesdays, it's my husband's day off. I wanted a day with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was like, no, I'm taking an extra day. Yeah. And I can still, like, you know, I'll just do an extra like hour or two. I'm gonna work at two.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't work Sundays through Tuesday.

[A]

Good for you. Yeah, that's awesome.

[B]

I'm gonna bring back Tuesdays for the holiday. But I. It's just because I. One, because I'm obviously a mom now and I want to be with my son, of course. And, you know, be at home. But also too, I. I seen something where she put this lady post on Tick Tock and she was like, this might trigger some of you, but a six figure esthetician or someone that's in the beauty industry doesn't work a lot. But I didn't really think about what she meant. Like, she was like, you guys are gonna get offended by this. But they're not booked out seven days. They're not booking themselves. They're not there every day. If you're a sticks for your esthetician.

[A]

We are. You're not making six figures sitting, having people in your chair. That's not how that works. I'm not making six figures because I'm booked out 247 and I'm taking clients every hour. That's not how that works at all. So, yeah. 100.

[B]

Yeah. And I feel like one. Because if you work seven days a week, right. You have to think about yourself, your body, your posture, the way you are, your hands. Like, I don't think a lot of people get this, but get insurance on your hands, girl.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Get insurance on yourself.

[A]

These are the money makers.

[B]

What are we doing with our feet?

[A]

Like, I did my nails at least today. These are the money makers. Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I see some people now on Tick Tock because, you know, Tick Tock shows everything. And I seen this one girl, she does her makeup with her feet.

[A]

Okay. What?

[B]

And she is so good.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

No, for real. She's better.

[A]

Girl, I don't. How are you that flexible? How does that work? What?

[B]

I didn't even think about that.

[A]

Not. Girl, how long are your makeup brushes? What do you mean she doesn't. Her feet.

[B]

Oh, she's amazing. She does so good.

[A]

She do it on others with her feet.

[B]

I don't know. I don't think I've ever seen that. But she's so good.

[A]

I weirdly feel like I might have seen that video of someone doing someone else's with feet, which terrifies me.

[B]

You know what? I've seen this other one where he has, like, no limbs. Like, he has no leg.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he does it.

[A]

And he does incredible job.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah, I have seen that, too.

[B]

And I'm like, okay, so we really don't have an excuse.

[A]

No, we don't. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. But. No, but you're right about, like, insuring your hand. You need to take care of yourself. Yeah. 1. You're going to burn out so fast. Yeah, you're going to burn it so fast. And that happens. And that's. I mean, one of the big reasons why I was, like, for the summer, I was like, I'm taking an extra day. Like, I need this time. You need that breather to get back into it. And especially if you feel like it's an art, which is what I feel like every time I, like, truly, every time a client comes in, I love doing it, but it's because I love doing it because it's an art. To me. It's something I enjoy. And if I'm doing it so much that I'm killing myself, it's not, like, enjoyable. It's not fun. It's. I'm not gonna enjoy it as an art, then I'm gonna start dreading it. And that's not what you want. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And then I feel like you're overworking yourself and as a business owner. Right. An entrepreneur, especially in the beauty industry. Like, you go home, what do we do after. After we have a full day, we go home and what do we do?

[A]

I, like, turn my brain off. I don't know about you. I do. Really, girl. I, I. Well, no, actually, that's a lie. I go home, and for the first, like, hour, I'm. I'm doing whatever else I need to do, and. But my brain, half. Half of it doesn't work, girl. My brain doesn't work half the time, so I can't do that. But that's why you need your time. No.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. That's why you need your time. That now I can't. Like, you have to dedicate. Especially, like, again, this is. If you're a. If you are working for someone else and you're just going in to take clients, that's one thing. You go in, you hustle, you do your thing. You're not managing social media, you're not doing any of the back work. Like, that's great. You go hustle. But if you are. Sorry, I just hit the mic. If you are doing everything, which I think most of us in the beauty business are, we're hustling ourselves. We are managing our time, we are managing our money, we are managing our social media, we are managing our clients. We are answering questions a million times a day. If you're a parent, you come home, you have kids, you're not just going in, clocking in, and clocking back out. It's your work is 24. 7. 24 effing 7.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so you need time to be able to manage those other things. You can't just show up, do, browse all day long, and then again, expect. Expect clients to come in or do anything else if that's all you're doing. So I feel this.

[B]

I literally. You are your. You're not also the artist that's doing it, but you're also your social media. You're also your everything. Everything, everything.

[A]

You're wearing every single hat. Well, and that's where that lady who. Whatever, whoever said that quote of people who are making six figures aren't working all the time because they delegate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, at some point, you have to delegate. Like, you can't. You can't do it all. You know, as much as we think we can, I think I can. I don't want to hand things over because, you know, you feel like it's your thing, but at some point, you. You can't do it all. You can't. No. You know, you need help. And that's where human beings. That is okay. It's okay to take a break. It's okay to, like, take a few days off if you need it, but you do need to make sure you take care of yourself. That's super important.

[B]

So then let me ask you, what was your. What do you think your biggest lesson that you feel like you've gone through?

[A]

Boundaries. Boundaries. Because I, at the beginning was taking as many clients as I possibly could. I would. People would cancel on me. I. It's fine. Let's Reschedule you in, you know, whatever you need to do. I was bending over backwards for everyone. Oh, you want to get an extra early? And I have someone at like 9:00 clock at night. Sure, let's do it. And eventually I learned, like, no, no, no. I have to have boundaries because, one, I have a home life that I have to take care of. I have my own, like, personal body and health to take care of. And you're wasting my time and money. We can't keep doing that. Like, that's just not how that works.

[B]

Even to loyal clients. Regulars. Okay, what do you do?

[A]

I will be lenient. But at some point, like, if it's a one time thing, fine. But if you are doing it on a consistent basis, if you're doing it on a consistent basis, you better be paying for it because you're wasting my time, you're wasting my money. And I have clients who I love who are kind of those people who will cancel last minute. And, you know, I was really gracious and kind at first, but eventually I have to say, like, no, girl, like, I'm so sorry. This is the fourth time you've done this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've got to charge you.

[B]

I've had regulars, and there have been my regulars for, like, I had one specific regular for, like two years. Always comes, never misses. Right? And then she just started slacking. And this is one thing that I heard from a girl on TikTok again. And she was like, I will never be friends with my clients.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And I was like, man, I'm fucked because I have so many friends with.

[A]

So many. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, but let me tell you something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when she said that, right? She was like, I will never have friends in this industry. I will never make my clients friends. All the comments were, like, agreeing to it. And it's because they take advantage of you.

[A]

Oh, well, isn't there that. There's that saying you. You become a friend with your client quicker than your friends will become your client? Because the reality is, it's true. They do. Your friends do take advantage or they don't want to be a part of. Yeah. Your situation. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, you're right. Unfortunately, I think you're right. Or she's right, because it does happen. You become friendly with them then all of a sudden. But if they're good clients.

[B]

No. Like, what do we do?

[A]

I know why. Then you become friends, and I'm like, well, I want to be chill with you. Like, I like you. Like, yeah, let's work it out.

[B]

Like, I want to hang out. I want to grab a bloodshot.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She was just straight up. No, I don't want to hang out with you. I don't care to go with you after. Like, I am your artist, and I am.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In studio, and I'm gonna give you the best results in the studio, and that's it. We can, like, have our conversations in my chair. But other than that, like, wow, you've.

[A]

Got good boundaries then.

[B]

So good boundaries. I was like, kudos to you.

[A]

Yes, girl. Because I don't know if I could do it never. No, my clients. I love my clients. And, like, there definitely are clients that, like, we do stuff outside and, like. But. But I would say those people, although I get where she's coming from. That, like, when you become friends, sometimes that happens. But if they are really loyal one to you and they're, like, good clients, they will pay those things without asking. Because I. Those people, if, like, they were to do it, like, I have one girl who I'm so close with, and I've told her before because she's like. And like, girl, a little tight on money. And I'm like, oh, let me know. Like, let me help you out. We'll pay next time, you know? But she's like, no, she's the one that's like, no, girl, I can't do that to you. So if they're good people and they're like, that, it happens. But it does happen outside. Yeah. It doesn't work out.

[B]

But it shows a lot about you, too, because the fact that you're like, it's okay when you get paid. I've done that before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To my regulars that I know that they're going to pay me. They're like, yes.

[A]

That I trust that it doesn't happen for everyone. It doesn't. Sorry. Everybody else.

[B]

I know it doesn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm like, she's like, I don't get paid right now, but I really need to do this.

[A]

But we're human, you know, There has to be some grace involved in this as well. I, you know, I wanted to run like that. And, like, that's how I want you to. I want you to feel comfortable in my chair. Not to be like, like, if you're really struggling, you want to get your brows and you're really struggling, like, with money. But you're like, I really want to, and I want to pay her and I want to tip her. I'm like, don't tip. I have so many of my Clients that don't tip. If you cannot afford to tip, don't tip. Don't tip me. Pay the bare minimum. Do it. That's what it's there for, you know, because, you know, my booking app shows up. You. It offers you the tip option at the end. Some of them I'll just say, like, I will automatically put no to me, too. Yeah. Because I'm like, don't do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially.

[B]

It was a high ticket. I'm like, no, like, I had a high ticket today. I was like, don't.

[A]

Don't tip me. Yeah, don't.

[B]

And it's like, not because. It's just not. It's because, you know, again, tipping is optional, no matter what.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

But I just. I really just. It was a high ticket already. Like, it's enough.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What? You're good.

[A]

And, like, realistically, you had a guest on who was talking about, like, tip being factored into price. Yeah. Which I loved that idea. Okay. I mean, I also think, like, your prices should just be what's factored for what you need. Anything past that is a. Absolutely. A blessing from that person. They should choose whether they want to give it or not. I had one time I went to a massage place, and at the end, I, like, gave, like, I think I gave like a $10 tip. And the lady was like, no, like, you need to give me more. I know. I've never had that in my life. And it was a nice place that I used to go to all the time. I. I never went back. So did you tip her more? No.

[B]

What'd you say?

[A]

No. Well, and I was already pissed already because they were late. They were talking the entire time during the massage.

[B]

What is this?

[A]

And you expect more, like. And I think, like, if you're going to ask. No, if you're going to ask me for tips, your pricing should cover what you need. You shouldn't be expecting your clients to tip. I think tip is. Tip is gratuity. It's extra, it's gracious. It's supposed to be that, like, little extra bonus if your client wants to give it to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, but that's where if. If my client's struggling and they feel that way, I don't want to feel stressed in the chair. Don't hit me. Don't hit me. Like, you know. Or if you really, you know, talk to me.

[B]

Okay, so now let me ask you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What is one thing that kind of drives you crazy that a client does? Some tea, you guys. Because I have A couple.

[A]

I do too. I have a couple.

[B]

Okay, let's hear it.

[A]

Okay, so for like regulars, you know who you are. I have quite a few who tweeze in between and they.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Or shave. I hate, I hate the at home razors. I hate them. Throw away your at home razors. Like, I get if you're doing your chin. But why would you be doing your eyebrows? You. You go and you spend money to get your eyebrows done. Why are you going to do them at home yourself? Don't come to me then.

[B]

Like, they shave them, like, girl. Right?

[A]

And the teens, the teens, the little teen girls are doing it themselves at home. And it's driving me nuts. Yeah, girl. My. My stepdaughter has sort of, sort of stepsisters sort of it's situation. They're a little older. They were. They're shaving their brows and they keep asking me, can we come get our eyebrows done? And I'm like, no, no, you need to stop doing that first. Yeah. And then you can come get them done. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So the, the shaving, shaving, tweezing, worst.

[A]

Thing in the world. Because 1. You really do mess up your shape. I have, I have one girl who I. I love her to death. She comes in every couple. She's like, in every three weeks. And recently, I don't know if it's like a tick or if it's like she's stressing about something at home, but she's been tweezing and she like tweezed off like half her eyebrow. I'm like, what, what happened with just the lower ones? What? I don't know. How did that happen? What happened with just the lower one? All of a sudden the half the brow's gone. So that drives me nuts.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I would say, like, like new clients. Ick. I've had so many, and these clients never come back. I'll be really honest, but it's a client who comes in and they're like, they're talking mad crap about the person before them, like, or before me.

[B]

Oh, I hate that.

[A]

Yeah. They come in and they're like, no one's ever done my brows right. And so good luck. You know, you. You get that kind of attitude in. I had one lady who came in and she was like, so I've never had my brows done right. But the last lady, she totally ruined them. But I want you to do them like, like this picture. And she showed me the picture. She's like, this is how she did them. And I was like, I'm a little lost. Like, do you want me to do them like the last lady did them or did she ruin them? I don't get it. And it just took forever. She was a whole mess of a thing. But anytime you come in, you automatically start talking crap about the person before you.

[B]

Like one makes you think, you're not going to talk crap about me.

[A]

Oh, I know, I know. It's going to happen to the next one too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're like, oh, you know, it's. I don't, I don't know what it is, why they do that, but don't go in doing that. That's just. Yeah, it's, it's rude. First of all, I'm going to say mine.

[B]

I think touching as I'm talking for like facials. Wise. Touching your skin after. I can tell when you do browse facial.

[A]

Yes. Or like even a while. Yes.

[B]

Touching your eyebrows like after I do a lamy. And you're just like going in and.

[A]

You'Re just like, you're ruining everything. You're messing with.

[B]

It shaped them.

[A]

Yes. Perfect.

[B]

And they look beautiful.

[A]

Like, don't.

[B]

Or their aftercare. You don't follow your aftercare. Come on, let's talk about it, girl.

[A]

The amount of. Especially for lamination. I have so many. You've people coming back. Well, it's not like lasting me. It's not doing this. Why are you doing anything afterwards? Oh, are you doing anything? Are you going home? Are you leaving it be? You think that it's just going to magically continue to go. It's like going, you get your hair done and then you go home and you never wash your hair or like condition or do any of the stuff. You get it colored and you go home and you like scrub it. Why? Like, it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. No. No.

[B]

So have you ever had to fix a disaster of a problem?

[A]

Like a disaster that I've made or someone's come in and it's been bad.

[B]

Or maybe they did it themselves. Or maybe they went, for example, like I had a client that went to get their brows threaded like a month prior.

[A]

Not to talk bad about threading, but yeah, it's not that threading's fault.

[B]

Okay, let's hear it.

[A]

If you're going to the, if you're going to the places in the mall to get your eyebrows done, you better expect to come out with half your brow gone because they're, they're doing it in the five minutes.

[B]

No.

[A]

And I've seen great Threaders. I've seen amazing artists who do great job. It's not the threading's fall. It's not the threads. It's the artist. But don't go to the kiosk in the mall. Don't go to your local nail salon. I used to do that. I did, too. No, we all did. We all did. Well, when we were younger, there wasn't a brow artist. I mean, like, the big brow artists were like, Kelly big. It was like the celebrities did.

[B]

You know what? I actually got to get my. My bra started, like, a lot of times, and obviously before I became an esthetician. And I've also, like, been to the benefit bra bar.

[A]

I did, too. I got mine tinted at the brand of a brow bar. Yeah, I tinted them black.

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, because at that time, there was, like, no brow tint. There was no other colors. Yes, they. I did my lashes and my brows, and they know. I swear they did them black. I don't know if I have any of those. Those have been. But girl. Yeah, well, because at that time.

[B]

But it's not.

[A]

That was not a thing. It wasn't like, color. Like, we didn't have brow daddy tint collection.

[B]

I want to get into that. But yeah, I get it. I get it. So I feel like. Same thing. If you're going to get your brows threaded, Fair warning.

[A]

Oh, yeah, fair warning. You get what you pay for and the time. Yeah. Because you're paying. What if you're paying $15?

[B]

I just don't know how I feel like it being in your mouth, the threat.

[A]

I didn't even think of that. But, yeah, you're right. Well, do they. Some of them do it without your mouth? I don't even know.

[B]

Or the neck or all of.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. The place I used to go, she used to put the thread in her mouth and.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, a little bit.

[A]

How did. How do they last with that? Girl?

[B]

I don't know. But have you ever had to fix a disaster of a brow?

[A]

Yes. Multiple times. Many times. One, I think, because I like, I. I put out that I do brow rehab. Like, I've helped. So I've helped a ton of people with going back out, like, anything like that. So I have had a lot of people who come in after, like, brow disasters and come back through and say, like, help me grow this out. And we. We fixed. Takes time. It's definitely not a one. Like, if you're expecting to fix your brows, it's not a one Time fix. Like, it is. It takes time and effort. And that's why I say, like, with my service, if you come in, we have, like, long. I would ask them, like, what's your, like, long term goal for your brows? Oh, because nobody asks that. Like, you don't you go in, what's the shape you want? Yes. I'm like, no, what's the goals for your brows? Like, if you could have perfect brows, what would that be? What would that look like? And how can we get to that? And so we'll, like, talk through what that process is. Looks like.

[B]

Yeah, I love that open question, like, what is your goal?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Do you want Cindy Crawford 90s, like, thick brows or like Pamela Anderson? Like, what's the VI Love her girl, she's. She's hot. And she's looks so much. She looks great with no makeup and everything now. I'm so happy for her. She looks like she's doing great.

[B]

So now let me ask you, what's the trend right now for brows? Because let me tell you, thick brows, I don't know why they're not in anymore.

[A]

I agree, I agree.

[B]

Why, though?

[A]

It's. I'm telling you, it's the teens. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, but, like, the teenagers think that everything 90s is back in, which means thin brow is in right now. Girl, I don't know what it is. The teens think, like, okay, so I like, I mean, I get. I don't mind the baggy jeans, but I don't like the thin brows. Actually, I take this back. I will adjust this. I don't mind a sculpted brow. Like, if you're going a little bit on the thinner side. Thick brows, not for everybody. And I get that. But I'm so sorry, we're not doing the crazy thin. Like, the amount of teens that I.

[B]

Have come in and with like, the split.

[A]

I haven't done that many splits, thankfully. I've seen it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's not my vibe. Yeah, it's totally not. I do think a thick bra looks fabulous on everybody.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I really do love a thick brow. I do too.

[B]

When we mean thick, can you explain what we mean?

[A]

Well, I don't mean, like, half your forehead thick. I don't mean half beforehand. I do mean, like, proportional to your face. You want to have a nice full brow. I think, like, how do I explain what, like, a thick brow would be like?

[B]

Like, when people say thick, it's kind of like, oh, like, give me a Freaking. I don't know. I don't know you. They're probably thinking like, half their forehead.

[A]

Yeah, no, we're not going that route.

[B]

But I just think maybe full.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Fuller.

[A]

A full, fuller brow or like a naturally, like, fil. Like fullish, thickish brow. That's great. And I think that's. I think that's going to be the new trend. Like, more than natural, like, less sculpty brow. I think that's going to be probably coming back in.

[B]

So do you think. Because when I do brows, I still do them. I have clients that want them completely natural. Like kind of just not even trimmed, just laminated and just brushed and that's it. And we line up a little bit. Yeah, but I have other brows. I want that Instagram body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Give me the IG eyebrow, Right?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. You still get a little bit of both. Yeah, it's. It's different for everyone.

[B]

But what's your favorite? You like a more natural, like, lamy brush model vibe.

[A]

Do I like a good sculpted brow?

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Well, because mine are very, like, sculpted 24 7. I mean, I do like a fluffy laminated look, but I love, like, even with a. I love that with a lamination, you can still get a really, like, sculpted, like, beautiful brow. I like my brows to look really, like, done personally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just like to conceal them and then look like, wow.

[A]

Yeah, they look like naturally, but, like, sculpted.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I want you to put a frickin white line under my eyebrow.

[A]

No one saying no, no, no.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And like the proper concealer, doing it right really changes the game. Like, it really does make your brows look, like, perfected.

[B]

No, I want to get into some tea.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I want to talk. We didn't mention this, but I just thought about it. I want to get into, like, brands. Okay, so what do you think? And we're gonna beat them out because we're not gonna get in trouble. But if you know, you know, that's all we're gonna say. Right. What is one brand that you're not for it? You don't like their lamy, you don't like their tint. We're gonna beep it out.

[A]

Okay. Talk about a good question. Okay, well, it's different for Lambie intent. Okay. Okay.

[B]

Okay. Let's see if I know them.

[A]

This is gonna be really controversial.

[B]

I can't wait. This beauty with the times.

[A]

Okay, so lamination. I'm so sorry.

[B]

What?

[A]

I'm so sorry. I just tried it recently. Actually. Oh my God. I'm not with it. I know. Okay, well, because one love. Love the tints. The tints. Yeah. Another level. Fantastic. Love the tint.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The lambie is not it. I feel like one. It's not processed. It's. It's. It's kind of weird. It's like a weird. I don't have. You used it all the time. You love it. I love it.

[B]

But you watch face was like. But you know what? Let me hear you because I have my thoughts on it too.

[A]

Okay. Maybe it's just what I'm used to. So I was a big three year girl for. For that, like stuck with that for a long time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But then I felt like the. It started taking longer and longer and longer and longer to actually laminate. And I can't waste my time with that because then all of a sudden I was like, okay, well, more than half my appointment's gone. I just laminated and they're still not late. So for Tuya, I liked it. I felt like over time it just kind of slowed down. I still liked the results. I felt like it lasted long and everything like that. Then I moved to inlay.

[B]

Okay. What do you think about that?

[A]

I actually do like.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. I want to try. You should actually. It's great. It is a lot drier than Tuya. Like, Tuya is very like juicy and like, you know how like the first one, it's like the juicier the better. I just can't stand that smell. That. Oh my gosh. That is a huge thing too. The sex is bad.

[B]

Really?

[A]

The scent is bad. No, not inlay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The scent is really bad. Is a rock. It is eggy as ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's awful. So that battle aside, like, the year was fine. I think it's kind of like. Yeah. It's a great starter one though. If you're like a new lammy artist. That one's a great one to start with. But yeah, I felt like I don't know what it did. And this is. I've only used it a couple times, so I. Maybe I just need to give it a little more. Yeah. Tries. And maybe I'm. I'm doing it wrong in comparison to how I've worked with it before or other brands before.

[B]

Well, you know what? I have like my thing where I don't just use one brand. I do like a cocktail.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Of lammies.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I kind of gravitate towards this brand and then. Oh, I like the way this one is I like the way the step one, step two on this.

[A]

That kind of like, you, like, change step lines. Wow.

[B]

I do. Am I in trouble?

[A]

No. I haven't done that before, though. I'm a little. I think I'm a little scared to do that just because I don't know how they're gonna react together. And, like, can I tell you that?

[B]

Yeah. Practice, though, because I did.

[A]

I. I love.

[B]

Didn't just do it on a client first. I kind of did it on, like, my assistant. And I kind of was like, I really like the way this one looks. But then I love this on this. So I kind of just did cocktails and actually works for me.

[A]

I actually really like that, though, because, I mean, it makes sense. I do that with actually my step three. I don't give the same. Step three.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That one. I've, like, found one that I really, really love. And, like, I go with that for always.

[B]

But I'm surprised you don't like them if, you know. You know, this person that we're talking about that she doesn't, like, has a really. And this. Only the hint we're going to give it has a great, great tint line.

[A]

Great, great.

[B]

You know.

[A]

You know, I'm saying this as in I've only tried it a few times.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I was just talking to someone about it actually the other day on Instagram because I just felt like I was like, this is not it. I don't know if it's just me, and maybe I need to try it differently or a different technique or something.

[B]

Can I say I love it, but I also. It's not my number one.

[A]

What's your number one?

[B]

I like the.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, girl. You know what? I honestly, sometimes I kind of want to go back to the yeah. Just because. But I do not miss the smell. And I do. If it works quicker, I would be way more on board with. Yeah.

[B]

I go back. I love doing. But I like booyah. And I love brow code.

[A]

I haven't tried a brow code. I tried brow code step two.

[B]

Okay. And I mix that.

[A]

Actually take this back now. I maybe I have done a cocktail. I did. Because I was looking at the ingredient list of actually, so. Is that what you do? Yes, I do. That's my secret. Dua. Step one. And then brow code step two, step two. Oh. Because that. I did do that, and that worked out.

[B]

I love brow.

[A]

Maybe I need to go back.

[B]

Okay, I'm giving you.

[A]

I know. What is it? Three.

[B]

Is that. I mean, so I keep the step three with brow code.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. You have to try them. I will. I'm gonna do this now.

[B]

And. Okay, so if you don't know about this brand, this brand is. Can I tell you, they are so strict. I don't know if you've ever.

[A]

Have you ever worked with them? Bro code. Okay, this is going to be actually funny. T. Years ago when she was first starting up her brand, I did work very briefly. I made a video for them once.

[B]

And do they accept it?

[A]

Actually, no. Actually you're right. Now that I'm thinking this was like 10 years ago when I was first growing. Yeah, no, they're strict. Yeah.

[B]

It's like you can't fucking sit with us type.

[A]

That's so funny. Well, because they did. The reason I worked with them was because I had posted videos using stuff and they. Before like actually them reaching out and doing anything, they had used them on their page.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[A]

And I don't even remember what the product was that I was using, to be completely honest, because she had a lot. She had the Gold Wax.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

She had the. The tin stuff, which. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I truly. That brand is kind of where like I started with obviously then I went, I worked into that brand. But they're just so strict. They would like my stories, not repost them. And I'm telling you, the quality would be good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Before, maybe not back then, but now when I used to tag them, it's just their strict. So what else is there another brand?

[A]

I'm trying to think of ones that I like, don't like. You know what? I think that one that's very underrated is Bronson. Bronson Tints. And this is Tints, not Lammy. I don't think they have a lamy line. Actually. I don't know if they do really well because I felt like. I think a lot of people don't know how to use it well. And I actually. That. Actually no, this is what I did the cocktail for. But I did do the brow code stuff for the lamination. But I also tried the brow code. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

[B]

What did you try from brow.

[A]

What's the. The stuff you put with the tint?

[B]

Oh, the. The developer.

[A]

Developer. It's a long day.

[B]

Long day.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The developer. The brow code developer with the Bronson Tint. Weirdly, that was like a really perfect tin. And that one's good for if you want a more like, I think a little bit more of a natural looking tint. But that lasted well. That will weirdly last my clients so well. Wow. And, like, Brow daddy does a great job too. It is definitely a lot more saturated and, like, quicker. Yeah. But Bronson, I really.

[B]

I love his tips. Like, what do you put in it?

[A]

I need to know. Yeah, Brow daddy. Yeah, give it to us.

[B]

Because the color shades in the beginning were a little like the dark brown. Did you notice? Was so.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, girl, when it came out of the tube, you're like, what is this? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm like, I'm gonna give her, like, Halloween brows. What is going on? Yeah, yeah. No, but he's, like, perfected it. Yeah. Oh, you know, I use brow daddy for microblading. When I did microblading.

[B]

His pm.

[A]

Yeah, his PNB line, actually, I used it before. He switched with, like, left, whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then. Then after, too. And after ones were fantastic.

[B]

That's what I use when I. Because I do ombre.

[A]

I don't do anymore.

[B]

But there was a time I want to do. There was a time I still do them on my older clients.

[A]

Same.

[B]

But there was a time that I did them, and I just felt like shout out to the PMU artist because it was not for me.

[A]

Like, I. No. And I'm so sorry. They lied to us about pmu. They lied to us when we. Well, how long did you get your license or, like, your certification for pmu?

[B]

So it was, like, right after. So it was like 2020.

[A]

Okay. So I got my.

[B]

I got mine.

[A]

2016.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they, you know, they, like, they really like to sell you on. It's going to fade, and it's going to fade well.

[B]

Uhhuh. Tell spe.

[A]

And it's mic. Microblading. This was microblading. And this was. I don't do it with the gun. I do it manually. This is it manually. I do it the. Yeah, I do the full manual stop. And I think they turn out great. And some of them can fade sort of. Well, but they absolutely lied to us. They told us it's going to fade in, like, three years. Like, that's why it's semi permanent. No, it's not. That's not. You have so many people who, like, it fades and then. But he leaves you that, like, rough. Like, the weird, like, blue coloring underneath. It's like a tattoo. No matter how, like, either you do it so light that it doesn't last a year, or you do it enough and it. It lasts you, unfortunately, like, forever. You're stuck with It.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

But I think that's where ombre powder is better off, because that does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fade out easier.

[B]

That's where they say globally, more towards ombre instead of microbuding, because I lied.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what? Thank you so much for being on my podcast.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

And we had a ball. Okay, you guys, the tea was tea. And if we can mention some names, we would, but we don't want to get in trouble.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But just know all these brands that we mentioned are.

[A]

I still want to work with some of you guys.

[B]

Yeah, they're very well known.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

But we always end this podcast with a quote, so go ahead and tell us your quote.

[A]

Well, I would love to quote what my brand name is. And it's called Kalon by Kylie Kalan, means a beauty more than skin deep. That is my whole vibe is I want people to feel beautiful from the inside out. And I feel like actually you're doing that with this podcast. You know, we're like, feeling. Making people feel. Feel people feel comfortable. And so the quote be. The quote will be be K. You know, emanate Kalon, a beauty more than skin deep. It's more than outward beauty. No matter what we're focused on, because we're in a beauty industry, it's from the inside out, so.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

That's beautiful. Yeah.

[B]

And you know what? You were so nervous. She was, like, walking. She's like, I don't know.

[A]

Like, I was nervous, and I was like, might still be a little nervous.

[B]

And I told her, you know what? Once he starts sitting down and it just gets so intimidating, like the camera.

[A]

It is a little. Yeah.

[B]

What the hell, girl.

[A]

You could see the light in the situation we got going. Yes.

[B]

But, you know, you did amazing. And thank you for flying out for my podcast, and we hope to see you again.

[A]

Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

[B]

To the last episode for season five. So we'll hope to see you again. And that's it, you guys. Hope to see you next season.

[A]

Bye. Bye.