What I Learned Being a Waxer for 25 Years

Summary

Beauty With A Twist – Episode Summary

Podcast: Beauty with a Twist
Episode: What I Learned Being a Waxer for 25 Years
Host: Dede
Guest: Libby Lazarus (Esthetician & Educator)
Date: October 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, lively conversation between host Dede and special guest Libby Lazarus, a licensed esthetician and educator with 25 years in the waxing industry. Libby shares what she’s learned from her long, varied career—working for others, going solo, surviving industry challenges, and now being committed to transparent education for estheticians. The discussion weaves through practical advice, industry truths, business building, debunking gatekeeping, how to handle setbacks, and the necessity of honest, supportive dialogue within the beauty community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Libby's Journey in the Waxing World

• Long Career, Late Independence: Libby worked for others for 18 years before going solo (01:28). She stresses there’s nothing wrong with working for someone else:
  "There's nothing wrong with working for someone else, like, if you're happy, if you're making money.” [00:43]
• Escaping the “Supercuts of Wax” Model: She describes assembly-line waxing jobs with high daily quotas:
  "I just can't do this anymore. Like, I can't do 20 Brazilians a day for someone else. I mean, I felt like I did an Orange Theory class." [01:29]
• Going Solo Wasn’t Glamorous: Libby started solo in a less-than-ideal spot, with no clientele:
  "I rented at a Dirty little Roast salon with no parking and I was almost embarrassed to really bring people there..." [02:47]
• Using Groupon Out of Necessity: She admits using Groupon isn’t ideal, but it helped her fill her books; the clients won over in-person stayed loyal:
  "Groupon's really challenging...they don't want to pre book. They don't want. They're not great tippers." [03:41]

2. The Importance of Education and Anti-Gatekeeping

• Gatekeeping Frustrations: Libby repeatedly stresses how knowledge is withheld in the industry—sometimes even among friends:
  "That little bit back, that little tip, might be the thing that changes your technique or whatever, changes your business." [04:03]
• Building the Secrets of Estheticians Facebook Group: After being banned from other groups for not following the party lines on brands and methods, she started her own group, now at 60,000+ members [04:46].
• On Older Estheticians vs. Newcomers: She’s critical of older estheticians who belittle or withhold info from the next generation:
  "Too many... older estheticians that are not nicer to the younger estheticians... It's disheartening me, because you're the next leaders..." [05:11]

3. Truth About Building a Waxing Business

• Honest Realities: Social media can create intimidating, unrealistic standards:
  "When people post like, Brazilian, Brazilian, like they have, like, 16, 20 in a day...It's so intimidating to people that are barely starting and they're like, why can't I be like that?” [06:26]
• Growth Takes Time:
  "It can take two to five years to build clientele.” [06:16]
• Client Numbers—Don’t Obsess: Estheticians don’t need thousands of clients—a moderately sized, loyal base is enough:
  "You probably need about 200...not even that a month.” [07:42]
• Working for Free at First: Doing some services for free or at a discount helps establish presence and generate vital reviews and content [08:21].

4. Waxing Techniques & Safety Pearls

• Soft Wax vs. Hard Wax & the Oil Secret:
  • Libby’s known as a “soft wax queen”, but explains her journey includes both, and issues around soft wax are often due to poor prep (always use oil on delicate areas):
    "Our savior is oil...Just a little bit of oil on those areas, you will not lift, I promise you." [12:09, 12:37]
• Technical Training Is Key:
  • Even with decades of experience, direct coaching made her realize she left hair behind.
    "I don't think you can be good at anything you haven't been properly trained on." [10:27]
• Addressing Mistakes:
  • Libby openly discusses real mistakes: lifted skin, bruising, labia tears, and emphasizes learning their prevention and how to correct them.
    "No one ever told me what to do when you have a labia tear. I didn't know until I did one, you know?" [12:09]

5. Business Mindset and Marketing Musts

• The Scarcity Mindset is Toxic:
  "One candle can light one candle and it doesn't hurt the other candle. That's the scarcity mindset..." [20:26]
• Be a Walking Billboard:
  • Always wear something indicating you’re an esthetician to spark conversation and attract clients in daily life.
    "Wear stuff that says you're an esthetician...be a walking advertisement." [14:57]
• Overcoming Fear on Social Media:
  • Libby and Dede urge pros not to worry about how they look or what others will think:
    "No one out there that either I wax or teach gives a shit how much I weigh...People are coming to you for your skills." [18:17]
• Consistency > Perfection:
  • Posting regularly and with authenticity is more important than perfectly curated content.

6. Education, Community, & Evolving Roles

• Coming Full Circle as an Educator:
  • Teaching and learning from the next generation is a source of pride and continuous growth.
    "That's the most rewarding... when they're like, 'Oh my God, I've never seen that.'" [32:08]
• Inclusive, No-Nonsense Teaching:
  • Libby’s group and classes are open, non-judgmental zones for all waxers (hard, soft, or sugar).
• Niche-Down for Success:
  • It's okay to try everything, but the most successful estheticians specialize:
    "Niche down. It's one of the best things that I can suggest people do." [46:37]

7. Handling Slow Months & Business Resilience

• Everyone Has Slow Months:
  "My June was shitty. Okay? So it's normal... some months, it just sucks." [16:16, 48:14]
• What to Do During Dips:
  • Take more classes, network, collaborate, run specials, text/message past clients, do win-back campaigns.
    "Text message marketing is, like, one of the best things. And getting your clients to post." [53:06]
• Don’t Be Embarrassed by Downturns: Transparency builds community and reduces stigma around natural ebbs and flows.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On authenticity and peer support:
"Instagram numbers don't mean that you're profitable. It means you're entertaining. There’s a lot of estheticians that have way, way, way less followers than me that make way, way more money than I do." – Libby [21:35]

On the value of honest education:
"I like showing people all the things I've done wrong. So it helps them jump the line. They get ahead and that they don't have to make the mistakes I did." – Libby [13:36]

On self-confidence and not comparing:
"If you follow someone that you don't like or they make you feel icky or you find yourself being...jealous, just hide them. You don't need to see that. Mute. Just get rid of them." – Libby [59:26]

On client vulnerability:
"You're asking someone to come in, lay down, usually with not even a towel... waxing the most vulnerable part of your body... Treat them like a human being and go get wax so you know what it feels like." – Libby [43:06]

On persistence:
"You gotta be aggressive... Just no missed opportunities. That's why when the woman in Starbucks turns around and says, oh, do you wax? You just want to push that to the limit. You want to book her right then and there..." – Libby [60:13]

Closing mantra:
"There’s a place for you in the beauty industry. Everyone you see is a potential client, and there is more than one way to do things." – Libby [57:26]

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Libby's Background & Why She Shares Her Mistakes: [00:08–02:45]
• Groupon, Gatekeeping, and Starting Over: [02:45–04:44]
• Facebook Group’s Growth & Community: [04:44–06:16]
• Social Media vs. Real Client Building: [06:26–07:42]
• Soft Wax, Industry Gatekeeping, and Technical Pearls: [08:43–14:03]
• Aggressive versus Vulnerable Marketing: [14:57–18:17]
• On Taking Classes and Continuous Learning: [19:59–21:26]
• Instagram Authenticity & Not Chasing Vanity Metrics: [21:26–24:02]
• Community in Sola Salons & Starting With Nothing: [25:04–26:41]
• First-Time Client & Retention Tips: [26:54–29:21]
• Wax Show Education & “Just Ask” Attitude: [29:22–32:01]
• Handling Online Drama & Industry Shaming: [37:17–41:05]
• Pivoting & The Value of Niche Services: [44:36–47:37]
• Cycle of Business: Slow Months, Specials, and Marketing: [48:14–54:00]
• Future of the Industry & Redefining Success: [54:27–56:41]
• Closing Statement & Four R’s (Retail, Rebook, Referral, Review): [57:19–60:13]

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Final Thoughts

This episode was a refreshingly real, laughter-filled guide through the ups, downs, and unspoken truths of life as a working waxer. Libby’s honesty and lack of ego provide both practical roadmaps and heartfelt encouragement for anyone in the service industry. If you’re an esthetician, new or old, this conversation offers validation, actionable advice, and a strong nudge toward owning your worth, supporting others, and dropping the scarcity mindset.

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“Just like, stand in your power... there's enough business for everyone. Everyone you see is a potential client, don't get stuck in that scarcity mindset.” – Libby [57:43]

Transcript

[A]

Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode and season of Beauty with a Twist. I'm super excited for this episode because we have a special guest. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

[B]

Thank you for having me. I'm Libby Lazarus. I'm a licensed working esthetician. I still work five days a week in the training room. And I'm also an educator, so I educate on Brazilian waxings, hard and soft wax. I've been in the industry for 25 years, but I didn't go solo till I had been working for other people for 18 years. And I know what. I'm kind of the girl that's done everything wrong. And so now that I got it right, I like to share all the things that I did wrong. Not that I did things wrong, but I liked working for other people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and there's nothing wrong with working for someone else, like, if you're happy, if you're making money.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So often we're just told that, like, there's one way to do everything, and there's so much pressure on newer estheticians. Go solo now. Yeah, got to go solo.

[A]

Can I just start and say I'm fangirling. I'm sweating to my boots. Okay.

[B]

I'm going on you.

[A]

We're, like, in here. I'm like, oh, my God. Is it. How is it just me? Because I'm fangirling, Because if, you know, you know, queen of waxing. I'm super excited. You guys traveled from San Diego, right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So how was the drive? First of all, how was the drive?

[B]

It was great. It was beautiful. Yeah. Peaceful. It was super nice. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was an easy drive. And I. So when I finally decided to go solo.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I live with my sister, and I came home one day, and I was working for, not EWC, but similar business models. So 15 minutes for Brazilians, and if you finished early, you know, they would throw in an underarm or a lip or something like that. And so I did that for eight years. Before that, I was a spa director at a fancy spa, and that was when, like, there was, like, tons of education. So I was sent all over the world, and I thought I was, like, this great, a great waxer. I really did. And then I went to work for this waxing place where I kind of called them, like, the super cuts of wax, because you're in and out, you know, it was like. It was like Tetris with them and the. And the schedule every day. It was like they just wanted to pack as many people in and I said to Lisa, I just can't do this anymore. Like, I can't do 20 Brazilians a day for someone else. I mean, I felt like I did an orange theory class.

[A]

How long ago was this?

[B]

I left in 2018. So I stayed a really long time. But see, I never wanted to go solo. I loved working for someone else. And there's, like I said, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, you go in, you make your money, you go home, you make friends. But, you know, that's why I say I've done everything wrong, because so many of you guys, the next generation are so much smarter and like fearless and not afraid and like, I just had so much fear for so long, you know. But technology has made it so much easy for us to go solo. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Online booking. You don't need a receptionist.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's so much easier now. So I went solo part time. I like stepped my foot into it. I rented at a Dirty little Roast salon with no parking and I was almost embarrassed to really bring people there, but I left my, my, all my clients on my old salon and I started solo with like, with no clients, which, which is hard, but I did it. I had a big ego. I thought I could do it and. But it was hard. And so when I first went solo, I couldn't figure out how all my friends were making six figures in a year when they didn't take clientele. And so it was like, so this is 2018. I'm like, then one day one of my friends slipped and she's like, oh, so. And so is using Groupon to. Exactly. That's what you think when you hear Groupon together to get people in. Because no one wants to use Groupon. If you do any word, it's embarrassing. You don't want to use it. And I was like, oh. And I had no money. Like, I was desperate. You don't use Groupon unless you're desperate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the clientele is difficult. They don't want to pre book. They don't want. They're not great tippers in general. Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, well, I'm just going to try and see. Because I knew my skills were so good in the room that if I could get them in the room, that's it. I could bring them. Yeah, I could bring them back.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I did that. And it was Groupon's really challenging and so. But I was angry that there was this trick that was like being gatekeeped from people that were friends of Mine. And so that unfortunately, has been something that's like, played out my entire career. You know, people holding just like a little bit back. But that little bit back, that little tip might be the thing that changes your technique or whatever, changes your business. So during COVID you know, we're in California, we didn't work for a year. And so all I was doing was in the Facebook groups, like, answering questions and, you know, suggesting wax brands. And so basically, because I was willing to not suggest the brands that the Facebook group wanted, I got kicked out of almost all of them. Yeah, people hated me. And of course, I'm a soft wax there. So there's a lot of stigma around soft wax, which is warranted. Like, it's very aggressive. If you're not prepping with oil, you can live lift skin.

[A]

Like, I can't wait to ask you about that.

[B]

Yeah. So I started a Facebook group. I thought there'd be 30 people in the Facebook group. And then now we have 60, 000 people in the group. So now if you go on and say, what wax do you like? I let you list whatever wax you like, because I was just getting kicked out. And so then I would. For that whole year, I basically just answered questions to a lot of the newer students that weren't during COVID didn't get training, you know, so I was just answering questions all year. And then people just asked me to start teaching more classes. And I always taught. I was always a teacher at or trainer at my other salon. So then I started online classes and in person classes. So I love it. I love the next generation. I love learning from the next generation. Um, I think there's been, you know, there's too many of. And I'm gonna get, you know, flack for this. But older estheticians that are not nicer to the younger estheticians, I see it all the time in the Facebook groups, and it's disheartened to me because you're the next. You're the next leaders, you know. And so I always try to really, you know, be really nice to the people coming up because I don't know what kind of education they've had, you know, I don't know if their school taught them anything. Which school in California just teaches you how to pass? They don't teach you really how to do anything else. So you don't know how to run a business. You don't really know how to wax, you know, unless you're really lucky. And so it's hard because people are seeing These beautiful Instagram, you know, feeds with the pink sign and, you know, 16 clients a day and all this stuff. And like, it doesn't happen overnight. It's a process. It can take two to five years to build clientele.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and thank goodness we have things like Instagram and, you know, Facebook and, and Tick Tock, because you can really get a clientele a lot quicker if you're utilizing those platforms.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think that when people post like, Brazilian, Brazilian, like they have like 16, 20 in a day. Right. That's amazing. But it's so intimidating to people that are barely starting and they're like, why can I be like that? Why is that not happening to me?

[B]

Exactly. And that's what really frustrates me is there's not, you know, your podcast is one of the ones that tells the truth. And that's why I'm so honored to be here. Because you had someone on a guest, I can't remember a while ago, and she said, you know, some days I have four clients. And you said, me too. You know, but you never hear people saying, I have four clients. It's always, you know, I had 16 or 20 clients. Look at my day. Which is great. Like, that is awesome. And you should applaud yourself. But I always think of that esthetician that's like, oh my gosh, like, I don't even have one client. And when I started out, like, I just wanted one client a day. That's all I wanted.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I had a part time job also, so that was something that buffered me, which I always try and tell the girls, because it's hard to go out on your own with no clientele.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

And if you don't have a clientele, then don't do it. I'm telling you, I think it's okay to, to work under somebody first. If that's what it takes for you to kind of just, you know, become an expert. Walks through first and then go solo.

[B]

Absolutely. I think the challenge with, with our generation right now is they're getting out of school and there aren't a lot of jobs. There's enough people because everyone we see is a potential client. Right. And if you do the math, you don't need 2,000 clients. People, you probably need about 200. Right. You probably need not even that a month. So most of you all probably know a hundred people that you can call up and say, hey, come on in, and I want to give you a Brazilian in exchange for a Yelp review, a Google review, a Throw out on Instagram, you know, a referral program and. But, you know, people a lot of times don't want to work for free. And at the beginning, you got to do some free stuff to get some content.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And so I always also encourage the estheticians to learn how to do browse, too, because it's so much easier to show on Instagram ram, you know, brow transformations than it is, you know, the whole Brazilian area.

[A]

Sometimes you can get red flagged and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I'm always encouraging everyone to learn face waxing, and it just adds on to your ticket.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I have a question.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Have you always been a soft waxer or you've kind of transitioned from hard wax to soft wax? Because from what I'm hearing about you, you're the soft wax queen. I've heard about your oil application first.

[B]

I'm not the only one. I mean, I learned from Lori Nestor, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, so she was one. Lisa and I went to her class in Long BEACH, you know, 25 years ago, and I was. I was one of her models. And she uses hard wax. But, like, she was one of the only people back then that was, you know, showing you exactly how to do everything without holding things back. She didn't even really care if you bought a product. She just wanted to educate, which is very rare. Right. Because most people are out to sell, and that's okay. We all need to make a living. No? So I'm an old esthetician, and in California, that's all we used at the beginning. There wasn't even a can of hard wax in my beauty school. So I used soft wax only for probably like eight years of my first part of my career. And then hard wax started to get popular, and then people were wanting it, and so then I added it in. And then I went to go work for a business that was mostly known for Brazilians. And that's where I learned that I didn't know about being a Brazilian waxer. I thought I was this great waxer, you know, because I could do the steam and cream facials and, oh, I could make you relax.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was in a totally different setting, and I thought I was a really good waxer. And I had a big ego. And the owner called me one day and she's like, libby, we need to have a talk. The clients are complaining and you're leaving hair. And I was like, well, can you please help me? Because I don't know what I'm doing wrong. And she's like, well, is the light on? Are you wearing glasses? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, listen, can you please just train me? Like, can you come watch me wax to show me what I'm doing wrong? Because if you don't know, you don't know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you. I mean, I don't think you can be good at anything you haven't been properly trained on. So here I thought she probably thought I was a great waxer, too, because I have this beautiful resume. You know, I'd been in the industry for 10 years, but I was leaving hair and people were complaining. So I got her and one of the senior estheticians, Natalie, to watch me, and they're like, okay, this is what you're doing wrong. This is how you do it. Right? And that's when I realized there was so much more to learn about waxing. And. But unfortunately, that sort of gatekeeping, holding back, whatever you want to call it, had followed me throughout my years with waxing, not so much with facials. I mean, look how many more facial classes there are compared to wax classes. And so that's when I was like, I'm. I owe it to myself to try and help, like, the next generation. Because no one, you know, there weren't people, like, telling all their secrets back then. And even now, I see people and I go, I wouldn't do that. There's more than one way to wax, obviously.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So then I just started incorporating. When I worked for my last employer, we had to do hard wax, soft wax, and sugar with stripes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you had to become. You had to be good in all three.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I've never heard of someone doing that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you had to do it in 15 minutes. And they were. They were. And I'm all for doing a quick wax, but they were, like, beyond. And that's really. And I do teach. Like, that's even one of my things. Like, I'll teach you to wax in 10 minutes. But speed comes from taking classes and experience, and nothing replaces experience. Those are the two things you've got to have. And if you, you know, go study with someone that's an expert waxer, they're going to show you all the things to do. Right. Hopefully, they're going to show you all the things that can go wrong and how to fix those. Because no one ever told me what to do when you have a labia tear. I didn't know until I did one, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or what to do when you bruise someone or how not to bruise someone, or what to do with you lift skin? Because there's so many. There's so much wrong information about skin lifting. Like, someone can lift if enough they're on no additives. Right. They just have dry skin. And our savior is oil. You know, it's so easy. It's oil. It's just oil. I see all these, these estheticians lifting underneath. Even if you're using hard wax, do a little swipe of oil and you won't have lifting.

[A]

So you're saying get rid of the powder?

[B]

No, no, you can keep powder, but on the inner labia and the butt area, that's the thinnest area that is most likely to lift. So just a little bit of oil on those areas, you will not lift, I promise you. And underneath the brows. And the problem is, I think with waxers is a lot of us don't get, like a lot of skincare education. Right. So skin types, skin sensitivities, all of that. So I had learned all about that when I was a, you know, a spa director and a fancy facialist. So I could look at someone and be like, oh, you have dry, dehydrated skin. I better make sure, double check that they're not on any Retin A Accutane. Different epidural. You know, I have Euler Spiel. And then also prep with a little bit of oil because you will not lift skin. And I've done it both ways on everything for hard wax, soft wax, and sugar wicks. And I have lifted skin, I have bruised everyone, and I've had labia tears. So I know what not to do.

[A]

That's why she has 2k plus students in this industry. Okay. No wonder you're such a great educator.

[B]

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I, I didn't, like, start out, like, wanting. I just, I like showing people all the things I've done wrong. So it helps them jump the line. You know, they get ahead and that they don't have to make the mistakes I did. Because even, even now I don't see people talking about, you know, just, even, even hard waxers just put a little oil on the labia and that's going to protect the inner labia because that's where we can have a tearing, you know, a labia tear, which is horrible and frightening.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You've never had one.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But you know what? I still feel this is going to be controversial, but I still feel there's a lot of educators out there that still gatekeep to their students because I've seen it and they don't you know, you tell them everything that you've done wrong and this and that. But I've seen educators that still get. And I'm like, they're your students. You're supposed to tell them.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and they're. In the end, it's. Who do they get trained by? It's your name in the end.

[B]

Like, oh, I went here. Absolutely. So when we started this, what I thought was going to be teeny little Facebook group. That's why I called it the Secrets of Estheticians. Because I was so sick of everyone holding things back. I mean, my own friends would hold me, fold things back for me, because I couldn't get, like, the labia hairs, the inner labor hairs that were growing up. I didn't know how to get those. That's where I almost got fired from. And so it's like, why There are billions of people in this world.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And every person we see is a potential client. Every person you see is a potential client. And that's why I'm always harping at everyone to wear stuff that says you're an esthetician. Because when you go to Starbucks, when you grocery store, when you pick your kid up from soccer, you want to be wearing a shirt that says an esthetician. Because people will come up to you, be like, oh, are you an esthetician? And you're like, yeah, I am. I'd love to have you come in. Let me give you, like, $10 off your first Brazilian. I can even book you right now. I mean, I know people that have built their books so quickly from picking up their kids at soccer by promoting, you know, being a walking advertisement of what they are marketing, huh? Yeah. So we are so big on that. You know, it's like, sometimes estheticians don't want to talk. And if you don't want to promote your business, got to find out why. Like, do I not want to do that service? Do I need more? Do I need to get more training in that service? Why do I not want to shout from every top of the hill, like, I'm an esthetician. I'm amazing. You should come see me. And this is why.

[A]

But there's a lot of people that are wanting to do that, but they're so introverted.

[B]

They're not.

[A]

They want this huge. They were like, why am I not getting books? And why I'm not. You know, it's because they're not fully committed to the marketing. They're not fully committed into posting every day on social media.

[B]

There.

[A]

It's just consistency is key.

[B]

And I feel like when people want.

[A]

The overnight, you know, I want to blow up and get clients. It doesn't happen that way.

[B]

No. And, I mean, I'll go you a step further. Like, I've been solo for seven years. I have a shitty June. My June was shitty. Okay?

[A]

That was my July.

[B]

Okay? So it's normal. Like, some months, it just sucks, you know, and so. And everything you're saying, so it's like, I don't care how, you know, booked and busy, we all use this term, but, like, and. And booked and busy is different for everyone. Like, first for, you know, maybe a mom that has two kids. Booked and busy is two clients a day, and she's working for someone else and she loves it. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with working for anyone else. Because I made best friends, I learned, had so much education. That's the thing. By the time I did go into the room, I knew exactly what I was doing in the room. Like, you weren't going to get any bad Yelp reviews out of me. I made those on someone else's mistakes, so I made them on someone else's mistakes. But I do see the challenge right now of new estheticians. You know, they're like, well, I have to go solo because this is what I'm hearing. I have to go solo because there's no jobs. So, you know, for those people out there, I say get a job in the service industry, like bartending, waitressing, whatever, and then become really, really good at something and then rent one day a week from someone like me. And you phone every person you know and get them in there and get a Yelp review, a Google review, have them post on social media. You have them sign a contract saying, this is what we're going to do. Do their brows, do their Brazilian, do their ears, do their nose, whatever. And if you do that with 50 people, you're going to start getting some traction because you're going to have a contract that says, I'm posting here, here, here, and here.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And people don't want to ask that, and people don't want to work for free.

[A]

But I feel like, again, there's so much stuff on social media that everyone gets intimidated.

[B]

Oh, totally.

[A]

Like, it's such a big. Like, I could see a huge waxer, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, oh, my gosh, how does she get? Like, how. You know, like, what are. What are we doing?

[B]

What are we doing wrong? Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. I don't think that you're not doing things wrong. You're just not taking enough risks. You're afraid to put yourself out there. You don't like the way you look on camera. Look, I would like to lose 20 pounds, honestly. But I'm not going to stop coming on here because I'm 20 pounds overweight. Because no one out there that either I wax or teaches gives a shit how much I weigh. So you have to remember, people are coming to you. Not. It's not a dating site. They're coming to you for your skills, and they're gonna want to see your face. And they're, you know, you just throw on a filter on your face. If you don't feel good, shoot from way high. There's all kinds of things you can do. But don't hold back because you're worried about what you look or if you sound silly or what someone makes in a comment. Like, if someone makes something silly in a comment. Good. It's good for the algorithm. More people will comment. Like, you just have to turn everything into what you need it to be. And I gotta tell you, I've seen estheticians out of the gate a few years old. Like, you know, lots of people we know that are better than estheticians, that I know that waxing for 10 years, because they're taking risks, they're taking classes. They don't say no. They don't know that's not how you do it. They're like, let me. Let me see that. I want to see that. I mean, in our classes at the shows, it's like, majority of younger estheticians, they're not afraid or they're afraid, but they're willing to at least try. They're willing to step behind the curtain. They're not saying, I know it all. Like, I've been doing this for 25 years. No, they're like. And even estheticians that come to us have been waxing for a long time. Like, I still take classes from other estheticians. Like, I'm always learning. There's always this different way you can hold a stick or a different technique or a different wax or a different way to prep or to hold the body in different positions. Like, there's always something to learn.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's why I love the younger generation, you know, And I feel like there's a lot of intimidation in the groups, too, for the next generation. Yeah.

[A]

And do you think going back into, like, the older estheticians, the OGs right. Why do you think they're so rude? Like, what is it? Is it because they think they know better? Like, what is it?

[B]

That's a great question. I think they're intimidated by some people that, like, even you look. How long have you been in the industry?

[A]

Six years.

[B]

Okay, so that's relatively new compared to someone, let's say 25 or 30 years. And you're killing it, you know, and there's a lot of people that are jealous, you know, like they're. One candle can light one candle and it doesn't hurt the other candle. That's the scarcity mindset that a lot of older estheticians have been told and newer estheticians like, oh, there's not enough business for everyone, you know, there is enough business for why? Because everyone we see is a potential client. And when you wear your esthetician shirt to every soccer game that your kid goes to, you know, everywhere you go and tell people who you are and what you do, you're going to, like, you're going to branch out and people are going to get to know who you are. And when you ask people to do that and you ask them to post on social media, then other people see it and they're like, oh, Lisa goes to Didi for her brows. I'm going to go to Didi. And it just starts like a chain reaction when people see, see, it's social proof, right? So you need that social proof. You need to prove to people that you know what you're doing. So get good in the room and then market like your life depends on it.

[A]

So that's your Instagram. You're pretty big on there. Did you, when you first went solo, you made an Instagram right away, you kind of just posted anything. Is that how you got so big on Instagram then?

[B]

Okay, so don't let those numbers fool you. I always tell people, Instagram numbers don't mean that you're profitable. It means you're entertaining. Okay, I'm entertaining. So there's a lot of estheticians that have way, way, way less followers than me that make way, way more money than I do. So I was a makeup artist for a lot of years, so I mostly did it for makeup. And so when I first started my Instagram, I had a lot of like half naked models, right? So I got a lot. I mean, honest with you, I got a lot of followers because I had pretty models, you know, and then when I went solo, one of the things that kind of held me back was I was really worried about what other people think. You know, I was worried about, what does that esthetician think? Or what does that company think if I don't use their wax? And then finally one day I was like, got out of my head and I was like, I have got to stop caring what people think. And the moment I stopped hearing what people think, and I was just going to post to my speak to my client or my student, that's when things, like, started to turn around for me. And just being like, your authentic you, like, just be you. People come to you for you. You know, they come to us to get wax partly, but they also come for the experience of you. And you don't. One of my biggest things is you don't have to have this big, crazy personality to be a successful esthetician. You do not. I mean, I know very quiet estheticians and hairstylists that do very, very, very well. You don't have to be clown. You know, you don't have to dance around if you don't want to. Just be you and show who you are and what you do and what you believe in and your work.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Which is sometimes challenging because not all of us want to post Brazilians on Instagram. Right.

[C]

We can't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We get flagged, they get banned. We can potentially get deleted. So it's like, how do we post our before and afters? Like, we can't. Like, we see nails.

[B]

That's the chance.

[A]

All these other industries that are posting, but we can't post our work.

[B]

It's very challenging. And that's why I'm always like, you do browse, too. Because at least you can be like, I don't do just Brazilians. I do browse, too. And then your clients can post themselves. You can post them in your salon right there. You know, it's. It's a really hard thing to get around. Yeah, it's a really hard thing to get around. But become good. If you can do. If you can wax vaginas, you can do eyebrows. I promise. Vaginas are a lot harder than eyebrows. You are literally pulling thousands of hairs out of the most sensitive part of someone's body.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And people don't really get what we do. Our clients get it, you know, and other estheticians get it. But when you're. When you just finally just throw it away and be like, I don't really care as long as my clients get it. That's all that really matters.

[A]

Do you do Manzilians, too?

[B]

I don't do You.

[A]

I used to. I used to. I stopped.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Had a horrific story that I talked about on my other podcast.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

But I used to. I just feel like that's kudos to the people that do it. I applaud you. I'm just not one of them.

[B]

I'm the same as you. Although I do encourage people. Like, if you're interested in that, go for it. Go for it. Amazing trainers and amazing niche. Amazing niches. Because not. Not a lot of us do it. I mean, I work in a sola, and there's. There's two girls that do it, and there's like 15 of us. 15 Lancers, and there's only two that do it. And there's a lot of people that want it. I just. It's too much for me, so. But people that want to do it, it's a great niche. You just gotta. You gotta have a lot of rules, and you got to be really strict, and you have to be safe. And, yes, you have to be willing to deal with people because inevitably there's, you know, they spoil it. Rest of them. But.

[A]

So you're in a solo now. You're in a slow.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

How is it going? Like, how is the business? How is. I look like you're doing great.

[B]

I love Sola because there's community. Right. Like, I like people. Most estheticians do, you know, and we like being around people. And I never wanted to be. I thought. I never wanted to be solo. I thought I never wanted to be in a room by myself. But, you know, like, you're allowed to change. You're allowed to change. You're allowed to get rid of services. You're allowed to lose money. You know, you're allowed to not always be the person you were for. When I was gonna go solo, everyone was like, but you don't wanna go solo. You don't wanna go solo. And I was like, who doesn't want me to go? What's going on? Like, because now I kind of do want to go solo because my friends are doing it, and I think I can do it now because technology makes it so much easier for us to go solo. But I love solo because there's community, there's other estheticians there, there's people that I can collaborate with and talk with, and I love hair stylists, so it works for me. It. I know it doesn't work for everyone. And it's. It is a small space. Yeah, that's downs, too. That was not my first. Like, that was not my first Solo spot. My first solo spot was a dump. It was a beachy salon with bright blue, tacky, tacky walls. There was like, you couldn't. They didn't even have the right address on the front. The. The bathroom door didn't lock when I was doing facial. They have to go in the alley, which was sketchy, and flip the power. Like, no. Yes. But this is what it was. It was $50 a day and I could afford it. And I knew it was a start. And I would come home crying to my sister and she's like, libby, it's just a start. It's okay. I even have notes from her saying, it's going to be okay. I mean, going solo was the scariest thing I ever did. Yeah, it's scary. It's frightening.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But there's a, you know, there's ways you can do it that makes it easier. Especially if you have a handful of.

[A]

Clients see someone that's being solo. What are like your go to tips on, you know, first time clients, like, or telling estheticians, like, do this for like what makes the experience for a new client?

[B]

Well, I think like this space really says it. Like, clean, neat, professional. You've got to look clean and neat.

[A]

Like, please look clean and neat.

[B]

I mean, just. I have Birkenstocks too, but like, don't wear them to work. Like, you got, you got to put your costume on. You got to put your costume on. You gotta. So clean, neat. Don't talk about yourself. Like, no one wants to hear our problems. It's their time, right? I put the music to what they are. So if they are, you know, my age, like, I'm not putting on like Youngblood on the stereo. Like, you know, if I know they're going through a hard time. Like, you know, our clients tell us a lot. Like, I have a client who just lost her husband and it's spa music and it's like, you know, let the client lead. You know, read the client. If they want to talk, we talk. But if they just want to relax, we let them relax. It's not a time for us to complain about our lives because let me tell you, clients have the, their own problems. And then, you know, make it a member experience. Make it like you have a beautiful bar there with chips and stuff. All those like the devil is in the details. Like all that stuff adds up at the end of the day and you know, make it, make it an experience. Even if it's just a wax. Make it somewhere that they feel, you know, because we don't have community that much anymore. Right. Because we're all on our phones. So we have coffee shops, and we have, like, if you go to a live, you know, sporting event. But we don't really have the community that we used to have. And that's what salons and spas used to be. But now we're all in these tiny little rooms, so people do come, you know, just to talk to us, just to be touched, just for the community and, you know, make it a fun experience. Like, if you're. If your whole theme is boat themed, you know, I mean, there's so many different things you can make a whole experience out of your salon. Like a nautical theme, a horse theme. You know, we see, like, mermaid themes. Like, there's. There's so many different ways to, like, make it a fun experience.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like one of my things, when people come and see this on my storefront, they're like, one. It's really clean, but the smell.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So good. And even people are like, what, did you spray?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that to them is like, that's the place that smells so good. I. I go there.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's called.

[B]

And then they know.

[A]

Then they start to remember.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because it's that one detail that sticks with them. And that's so true.

[B]

Absolutely. You've got to make it smell good. It's got to be a scent that, like, resonates with you, you know, like your brand. And it's true because it's like. Then you're using the five senses, right. They're seeing, they're smelling, they're touching. They're probably not tasting. What's the fifth one? So you're using all your senses when you do that? Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So tell me, when you go to these shows.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you do your education, how is it? How do you feel? Nervous. Like, how. Like, you doing that. And you did in Long Beach.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you. Vegas, too. Like, how did you get to that point?

[B]

Like, you're so.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Oh, it's not that big of a deal.

[A]

No, it is my shout out to Kim. She's from Bushwom. She did her first show, her first class in Vegas, and that was her first, like, Brazilian. And she was freaking out, but she was like, wow. Like, I had the adrenaline of just, like, being up there showing the new estheticians, this new era of, like, like. Yeah, they're watching me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, how do you feel?

[B]

Okay, well, I have a bachelor's in theater, so. Okay.

[A]

That's A lot.

[B]

So I grew up doing a lot of theater, so that's kind of my thing. But I'm. I'm a wreck before. I mean, I'm kind of a wreck because, you know, if you're setting up a teeny little salon SPA, like, in 30 minutes, and if you don't have your oil, you know, it's a lot to, like, set up, and then, you know, you. I've had so many times where, like, the models backed out last minute. I'm pretty much a wreck. Lisa, aren't I a wreck? Pretty much a wreck. Very nervous.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right before when we're studying. Yeah, I get nervous right before. And then when I'm there and I'm like, seeing the estheticians, and I'm like, I remember why I'm there, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't want. Once again, I don't want them to go through all the things that I went through that was unnecessary.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's unnecessary not to teach someone what to do. If you get a labia tear or a bruise or a bad review, obviously, I can't, like, give. I can't teach all of that in an hour class at the shows, but I give them as much as I can. Like, it's a. My mouth does not stop.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm trying to give them all the information.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because when I seen you, when I see that you're posting these classes, I'm just like, you must be so proud. Like, there's so many new estheticians, and they're watching you, and it's like, this. A dread. I would have been freaking out.

[B]

I would have been like, it's like an honor. It's an honor for you to be able to share because there's so many great waxers out there, you know, and so.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, if you. Super, super excited and proud every single time we get to go teach and that waxness sends us and they're, you know, they've been really good to us. And the reason how I got the job. I asked. Sometimes you just got to ask. You got to ask. Just got to ask. Because these shows go all over, and people typically want someone that lives close to the show. So if you are an educator and you want to teach waxing in front of a big group, you know, get in touch with the person that holds the cards and tell them who you are and what you do and how you want to make it different.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, see stuff that you're not going to see on, you know, YouTube and well, I guess YouTube doesn't even show Brazilians anymore.

[A]

I know they don't. They took that off, too. What's the most exciting part about teaching a new esthetician?

[B]

When they're like, oh, my God, I've never seen that. You know, that's the most rewarding.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When you're like, wow, you just taught them something. Like what?

[B]

They're like, oh, my gosh. That's how you do it. Okay. It doesn't have to be that hard. And like, it doesn't. This will help. This trick will help you just try it. Because a lot of times they just have, like, you. Like I said, you can't be good at something that you haven't been taught. And like, I. So I've been waxing for 25 years. I've tried, need to do the math. It's thousands of clients. But like I said, I've also, you know, done all the wrong things too, so. And I know what to do when you get a bad review. And like, when you lift skin and like, you know, because you wax long enough, those things are going to happen once in a while.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you think that's one of the main reasons why you became an educator was to each that.

[B]

Yes. Because I was never taught those things. Even when I would go somewhere and take a class and no one ever talked about labiateris. Never. And breeze Bruising. A little bit about bruising. But lifting, it was like always the client's fault. Oh, they must be on something. There was no, like, well, is the skin dry? Is the skin dehydrated? Because if it is, the oil on there and you will not lift skin.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So now tell me, wax ness, was that a brand that you started with? It. Was there another kind of wax that you started with? Brand way. Let's get into this and tea some juicy.

[B]

I want to. Okay.

[A]

I want to get into it because, you know, it's so controversial when it comes to waxing brands.

[B]

Oh, God. Gives me a headache. So waxing, this is not. I do not work for them. I just educate for them a few times a year, you know, and I'm an affiliate. But so when I started the Facebook group, no one knew who I was, of course. It's like, I mean, there's thousands of girls and men around the country like me, you know, that have been waxing for a long time and educate and stuff. So I was just, you know, I started this Facebook group and I didn't have. And I was started solo and so I just started with A couple waxy brands, A brand had reached out to me and they'd sent me wax and I liked it. So I just started, you know, I didn't have a lot of followers just making reels and mentioning it. And before I knew it, like I was selling a lot of wax for them and another, another company too. And so, I mean I was making a lot of content for them and so I was. So I said to them, can I be of affiliate?

[A]

So you weren't even an affiliate?

[B]

No. So I asked them, so this is my Facebook group, the Secrets of Estheticians. I said, hey, can I be an affiliate and can I get 10% when people use my name and code? And this, the, the two companies at the time were like, we don't know how to do that. And so then I had my sister send them the technology to show them how to do it and they just never, they couldn't do it or didn't want to do it. They didn't want to have affiliates. And so I found a company that would give me 10% because I felt that I had earned it, you know.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And I'm answering all these questions all day long. I mean, during. My mom and sister would be like, put the phone down during COVID Because I'm like, no, I can help this one. I wanted to save everyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I mean I found Waxness and they're, they're a family owned company. They have 16 employees, you know, and they're, they're good people and their wax is really good. I mean there's a lot of great wax brands out there. And I, and I'm not like, I'm not married to them, you know, but that's how I found them. And they had an affiliate program. They were willing to give me 10% because I wanted my students to get 10% when they started out, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And these other companies just didn't want to do it.

[A]

Do we have a code? No, of course. What's the code?

[B]

So the code for waxness is libitum, of course. And they were really generous to students because you can use that every time you purchase. It's not just like on the first time. And I know it's really hard when you're a smaller brand and you can't. But these brands I like, I helped them a lot, but they didn't, they weren't, they didn't see value in affiliate, affiliate program at that time. So I was like, well, I can't mention your name 10 times a day in my Facebook group and other Facebook groups anymore, because I just want a little. Just a little bit of recognition for. Absolutely.

[A]

I mean, you're selling their products.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I need something. I need something from you. Yeah, because I'm giving you money and.

[B]

What am I getting?

[A]

And I'm even a bag of free wax.

[B]

Right. Well. And a lot of people on Facebook, you know, they want things for free. They want. They want a booking system for free. They want free music, they want free technology. I'm like, do you work for free?

[A]

Do you work for free? No.

[B]

So there's a lot of people that are just looking for free, you know, and there's great free out there. Right? There's tons of free out there. But at some point, if you want to get to the next level in anything, you know, you're going to have.

[C]

To pay a little bit.

[A]

So does this mean I had to join this Facebook group?

[B]

Because I need to know what's going.

[C]

I don't.

[B]

I'm not in any Facebook group. And girl, you're beyond it. You don't need it. No, but I need to see what's going on. I need to see these comments. I need to see.

[A]

I feel like this. Facebook groups are popping or something because.

[B]

It'S like it should be called Karen Group. I mean.

[A]

Oh, is it that.

[B]

It's bad. It's bad. It's bad because everyone thinks they're right and that there's only one way to whack, you know, there's only one product line to use. So it's kind of like, you know, it's. It's kind of a shit show on Facebook. And it's gotten worse too, because, you know, everyone's an expert.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And there's more than one way to do everything. You know, there's more than one wax company you know, you don't like. There's not one way to cut hair. There's not one way to wax.

[A]

So now let me ask you this, because there's this huge drama, and if you know, you know, you're found. Tick tock. There's this whole. It was about an esthetician. He supposedly did something wrong. He's been in the industry for 10 plus years. And another esthetician called him out on it and said, this is absolutely wrong. This is not how you do it. And if you know the story, you know it's huge right now. They were calling her out because they think it's rude to call out another esthetician saying, you do this wrong. Why don't. Don't call them out, send them a private message. Don't go posting about it. What would you say? Like, if you've seen someone do something in your mind, you know, you're like, okay, this is absolutely not how you do it.

[B]

Okay, well, we know why people do that, right? For engagement. And we've all done it. You know what?

[A]

I'm about to go do some shit right now after this. I need the algorithm right here.

[B]

I need to be done that. I. I have grown up someone that was on staff and with a little thing, and I'm like, this is not how you do it. I mean, I try not to do that anymore. I. I guess it depends how bad it is. Like, if I saw someone, okay, I might. I might do it.

[A]

I mean, you're gonna call them out straight up and either no comment section.

[B]

Not if it's like a. No, I wouldn't do that because I've had a huge estheticians come after me for not letting them post in my Facebook group. I had a huge esthetician get mad. This person wanted to post something in the Facebook group. I said no, and this person was really aggressive, and so that person had to be removed. And then this person made a whole reel of me as Jabba the Hut and all this stuff and said that I was Jabba the Hut and I was this and that, and I buy face followers and all this stuff. So. But it was like on this person's second account. So, yeah, you do have to be careful because getting called out like that, isn't that fun. But this is what I did. And this is what you do if someone does it. You screenshot it and then you call them out on it. Because this person didn't think I was going to do anything with it. If you scroll way, way down, you'll see it. But I crossed off this person's name. So you are taking a chance when you call someone out like that, especially if they have a lot of followers. So I guess it just depends how deep you want to go, because it can turn around on you real quick.

[A]

And I mean, I think it did for this esthetician and she went from. But you know what? It's your. It did good and bad. Everyone's hating her. But then again, her followers went from 300 to like 15, 000 on tick tock in a day.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, controversy is what Drama. Drama. Unfortunately, that's. That has become a thing in our industry. You know, like, I mean, with like, people not smelling right and stuff. Like, it's Just. That's something that, like, really infuriates me because if you're gonna work with bodies, you're gonna have to get used to bodily fluids.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's normal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're, you know, menstrual, but. And discharge. And. And a teeny, teeny, tiny bit of poop once in a while is, like, normal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so esthetians making fun of that. It just started about five years ago with a really big esthetician, and I actually called her out on it on her Instagram. I'm saying, why are you talking about clients like this?

[A]

She was talking to our page about this.

[B]

Yes. Because she was selling soap.

[C]

Poop.

[B]

And so she blocked me, so I couldn't even have the conversation.

[A]

Yeah, no, this brings me. Okay, so going into that, I do talk about, you know, discharge, and sometimes there is poop. But to my students, not making fun of the client. Never. I never. That's not what I do. But just informing them that this might happen, and this is how you help and tell them, or maybe even just educate them, you know, in some sort of way, but never tell them directly because then it's an embarrassing thing. Clean it up. Okay.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Just a quick wipe is what you do.

[B]

Exactly. Get over it. Like, we pick up dog poop for our dogs. Like, I mean, it's not that big of a deal. And it's like. The thing is, like, a lot of times people, they don't even know there's a teeny, tiny bit of poop. You know, they might have hemorrhoids, which sort of. You know, a lot of people haven't seen hemorrhoids, so they don't know what it is.

[A]

You know, without any more education, that's like the number one thing I teach in my waxing courses.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Hemorrhoids, they're normal.

[B]

And so if a teeny, tiny bit of poop gets on there, you just wipe it, clean it, and go, like, it's not. You know, But I think that it gets back to the education, and it's like, poop is normal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we're working with a butthole. There might be a tiny bit of poop there. Now if you have a horn, you know, pants full of poop, that's a different situation. Yeah, but that is, like, something like that has happened to me once in my entire career.

[C]

No. Yeah.

[A]

I seen this TikTok. It was medical. It was. They. It was like a medical place, and it was a bunch of nurses, and they were something like, do our Clients leave gifts.

[B]

Yes. Last week I saw that.

[A]

Did you see that?

[B]

Awful.

[A]

And it's huge.

[B]

And guess what? They all got fired.

[A]

Yeah, they all got fired.

[B]

But you know what?

[A]

That to me, is so disgusting, so unprofessional. I hope they lose their license for that, because I would never, ever, ever go to a place that's going to be making fun of. I'm potentially me, you know?

[B]

Absolutely. And that's one reason, you know, why people don't want to come to us. They don't want us talking about them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I'm sorry, but it's just. It's not professional. It's not right. And it's just really childish. It's really, really childish. And it's like, well, maybe the waxing isn't for you, then if, like, you know, you don't like working with bodily fluids.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, already the client is so.

[A]

Vulnerable enough opening her legs.

[B]

And. Yes. You don't know.

[A]

When the client goes through her backstory, she's. There's. You know, we can breathe that, Marlo. But there's so much more to a client than you actually know. So already her lane and vulnerable position opened. Come on.

[B]

I think. And that's such a good point, and I think people forget that, like, you're asking someone to come in, lay down, usually with not even a towel or anything.

[A]

I just tell them, whip it open. Yeah, I'm not gonna give you towel.

[C]

Just.

[B]

And then, you know, you're laying there, and the most vulnerable position, waxing the most vulnerable part of your body, removing hairs from the most vulnerable part of your body. And, you know, I think in like, a million years, they don't think we were crazy. Because when you think about it, it is kind of crazy, you know? So it's like, yeah, treat them like a human being and go get wax so you know what it feels like. You know, there's a lot of people that don't even go to any other people to get wax. They just wax themselves, which is okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But you should go to your friends so you can learn. And you lay there and you're like, oh, that smells good. Oh. Oh, I like the way she did that. And you learn, you know, you learn from going to your friends or either other estheticians to get services. That's how I got so good at facials. I would go to other people to get facials and steal other tricks.

[A]

Did they. Did you tell them, like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know that you. That this is the right way or all this. I'm going to be using this for myself too.

[B]

No.

[A]

Did you tell them that?

[B]

No. I would just like go and like get a facial and be real quick, quiet. Be like, oh my gosh. That's how you massage like that.

[A]

Oh, that feels smart.

[B]

Oh, that towel sounds really good. I should put the, you know, the, the essential oil in the nose. You know, just like all those little things. But like a lot of estheticians don't want to go to someone else to get waxed. Yeah, I think it's important. I think you learn a lot and you need friends. You need friends to be like, hey, this happened, what do I do? Or can I send you this client and then they will do that in return.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't even know you had a station.

[B]

Not anymore. So I got rid of everything and I just do waxing. Okay. But I was a fluffy facialist. Like I was a steaming cream make them feel good. I didn't like, I wasn't a results oriented facialist and that's probably why I didn't really do that well in it. So when I went solo, really didn't want to niche down, but I took some really good training and education and one of my trainers or coaches said the best thing she did was niche down. And it's like you literally had to like pull that steamer from me because I was like, no, I love this team, which I know is also controversial. And I love my product lines that I use and I love, you know, making people relax. But we're only doing 10 facials a month and people aren't buying your product line and if they're not buying your product line, you're not getting results. I was like, okay, take it away from me. And so I threw all those clients to another girl at Sola and then she threw me a bunch of waxing people. So it was nice. But yeah, I, it was hard for me to get. You can't. I couldn't be good at everything. And I wasn't. I mean, the reality is I wasn't changing people's skin and I wasn't getting known for that. You know, people come for relaxing facial, but you know, if you want to, if you really want to change someone's skin, you need to be doing results oriented facials oriented products and resorts oriented tools. And I just wasn't, I wasn't that good at that. So I had to take a lot of self reflection and be like, what's, what's the best thing for the business?

[A]

You know, what I'm so glad that you said that because I seen. And I used to be one of them, because I'm going to say it. I wanted to learn so much. I wanted to learn how to wax. I wanted to learn facials, I wanted to skin bleach, I wanted to makeup, I wanted to do nails. At one point, I wanted to do all these things for a quick buck. I really did. I really did. But then I started. As I was like progressing with my career, I was like, you know what? The best thing to do is to ex. I need to get an ex. How do I say? I need to have my expertise in that certain category in order to make money. That's the only way I need to be. More education with waxing, more education with facials. Nothing. The only way I will make money is that by become an expert in it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And just niche down.

[A]

And just niche down.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a hard thing to do because you do want to do everything and that's okay. Try everything. See what you're good at, see what calls to you. But if you are not screaming on the mountaintops, I'm a Brazilian waxer, come to me. You know, and you're afraid and you're. There's something there. Maybe you're not that great at it, or maybe you just don't want to do it anymore, you know, but yeah, niche, niche down. It's one of the best things that I can suggest people do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So we only do. Do you do full bodies or just no full body? Full body hebble vagacials.

[B]

I. I used to, but, you know, people don't really ask for them. I think it had a big blow up. Yeah, I mean, I have like some on the menu, but very, very minimal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What about you?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you do a lot of them? Yes. Well, that's good.

[A]

I know it's like a huge. I don't know, I. Maybe it's because I kind of, you know, tell them like when you come in for a wax wax, I'll get a couple ingrowns here and there, whatever. I could tweeze off, but it's. I feel like it's over the time that I booked for you. This cannot. Yeah, I can't. Like, we're gonna have to turn it into a vagational for your next wax or.

[B]

I mean, I think that's fantastic. I mean, I think that. And I'm sure there are estheticians out there that just specialize, you know, solely in Brazilians and vagacials. I think it's an amazing niche just to push that narrative, you know, I mean, there's so many ways to make money in this industry.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that people forget that, and they think that they have to have all the shiny tools. And, like, I mean, like I said, some of the most amazing estheticians I know have a few thousand followers and are doing amazing, you know, so it's like the numbers are just for fun.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So now that you know that we know your June was slow.

[B]

My June sucked.

[A]

How was your July? How was your August? How's your September going?

[B]

July and August were good. They're a lot better. September's pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I always say it can be better. So when people ask husbands, I'm like, oh, it's good. But, you know, we always do more clients.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I think that. Because in this podcast, I've actually never really talked about, like, a slow month and what you do during those slow months. What can you do during that? You know, I know that there's times like, why do I have five clients this day and nothing tomorrow?

[B]

Yeah, it's a great question. Take classes. Take classes online. Go get services from other estheticians. Collaborate with other estheticians. Do a contest with other estheticians or businesses in your area and say, I'm going to give a free wax, and then Dede's going to give. Give a free facial. And then what you do is you get a little cute little container, and then all of. I call them the losers, but they're not the losers. The second place, people send them all an email and a text with a special, you know, and make content and don't get down on yourself because everyone has slow months. Also, text message marketing. I did a text message this month, and I got 18 people booking from my text message that I sent out. People are. People sometimes don't want to do text message marketing. And it's easy for the client. It's short. It's like 150 characters. You can't overthink it. And it's basically just a reminder to get people in. And I don't think there's anything wrong with doing a special once in a while.

[A]

Yeah, I love special.

[B]

I do, too. Get them in. I mean, would you rather make, you know, $60 instead of $70 that day on that person? It's math. It's math.

[A]

You just brought up a great point. I love specials.

[B]

I know, I know. People just need a little something to get them to come In. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't think anyone in our industry, we're always told, like, down to specials, don't do specials. Well, okay. Sit there and have no one. Instead of having three people, three or four people for $60 instead of $70. You know, your choice. But I hear it all the time from everyone from newer estrogens and older estates. Nope. I don't discount. Nope. Okay, that's fine.

[A]

Yeah, I do Wax Wednesday.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

$10 off, 15 off years, monthly specials. Because, yes, I can understand a point of view of, like, well, you're going to be known as esthetician. That always has discounts, and you're lowering yourself and you're doing that. Like, it's not that. It's that I'm bringing in more than what you think. Right. Like, you're making maybe even not even books, because you're going to stay at that price. And, you know, you're. I understand you're charging your worth.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But I.

[A]

Like we said, it's my other podcast. I can't charge my worth right now. Right now, the. Everything is so expensive. Expensive.

[B]

You know, crazy. It's absolutely crazy. And that's why we got to give people a break, because we want our clients to come in and, you know, what's $5 off? One of my best tips for when you're trying to rebook, especially for new clients, is, Dee, I'd like to see you in four weeks. And if you pre book now, you'll get $5 off your next service. That works. When I was trying to convert those Groupon clients, I offered them $5 off if they pre booked and kept that appointment. I'd come home every day and be like, oh, my gosh, Lisa, I booked eight people, Eight Groupon people rebooked, offering them an incentive to pre book. That works. And worry about. Worry about the people that don't want to just throw them away. I just. I still do specials and I want to, like, I want to give something back to my clients that have been so loyal for me. And what's $10 if they're coming in and getting a brow wax in The Brazilian, it's $102. And I take off $10, and big deal. I still want to do them. And people may say, oh, you're, you know, you're not charity in your earth. Well, whatever. I don't really care what they say.

[A]

I love her. I really do.

[B]

Well, because so many people just sugarcoat it. That's why I like to say I had A horrible June. At my classes in Vegas and in Long Beach, I told everyone, look, I have a shitty June. Like, it's okay. And that's why I say I bruised people at Fable Tears. I've lifted affected skin, like, because no one wants to talk about the mistakes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like a lot of people kind of. I don't want to say embarrassed when they say I have slow. I'm slow right now. They're kind of, like, embarrassed to say.

[B]

It, but it's okay and normal. So what can we do? We can do a text message marketing. Some people don't want to. They're like, I'm afraid. I don't want to annoy them. I'm telling you, you're not annoying them. They like it. They're like, oh, it was easy. It was convenient. Hey, this is Didi. You know it's September special, back to school. $10 off when you book. Brown, Brazilian, can't wait to see you. Don't be fuzzy. Xoxodd. People love it. And if they don't love it, they'll unsubscribe and you'll never know. So it doesn't matter because not everyone opens their emails, but everyone opens their text messages. So do it. Try it. And I mean, I booked 18 people from one text message that people that hadn't booked.

[A]

What? Yes, because people forget I'm doing this tonight.

[B]

Yo, do works. Text messaging marketing is, like, one of the best things. And getting your clients to post. You do browse. Yeah, Tell your people if you post me on Instagram with the link to my booking, I'll give you $10 off your next brow. You know, I need a cute selfie. Tag me. And then, you know, your friends are your. Her friends are going to see it and they're like, oh, I didn't even know you did browse. Because people don't know all the things we do. Right. And it's just more exposure. I mean, I know more people that have used Instagram and Tick Tock to build their clientele than anything. And those are both free.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So post, post, post. And don't give a what anyone thinks.

[A]

Please say a lot of people, please.

[B]

Just don't give a. Don't care. Don't worry about what I think or the wax company or anyone thinks. Just, you are going for your ideal client. That's who you know. They're our boss.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They're paying our bills.

[A]

At the end of the day. Shout out to our clients.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Because they keep us in business, and they keep us loyal, and they don't go to the big chains, you know, and so I always say, like, thanks for supporting small business and almost all my stuff, because I really do appreciate it, or else I would still be doing 20 Brazilians a day for someone else complaining about it, you know? So, yeah, just, you know, it's hard to make those changes. It's hard to break those habits. But, you know, you're allowed to change. You're allowed to grow. You're allowed to, you know, dreams change, and that's okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So now you've been in this industry 25 years. Do you see yourself in another 25 years still doing what you're doing today? Honestly, I mean, one of the reasons.

[B]

I like to teach is because this is a long time to be in the West Tax Room. Like, you're way smarter than me. You've got renters. Like, that's why I'm, like, so in awe of the next generation, because you guys aren't afraid. I say build everything you can so someone else can work for you. You know, I mean, either renting out like you do here, or having employees, if that's what you want, or educating or, you know, having a podcast or all the other millions of things you can do in the industry. No, I'm tired. Like, I don't want to do 20 Brazilians a day. I'm happy with, you know, eight Brazilians a day. I'm fine. That's why I say, like, dreams are different for everyone. Success is different from everyone. You know, some people, it's okay. You have one client a day. You should celebrate that. You want to do 16 clients a day, that's okay. There's more than one day's, you know, one way to do this industry. And we. We do see these standards out there where if you're not doing 20 Brazilians a day, you're not successful. Well, that's not true. If you can pick up your kid at soccer and you don't have to work nights, weekends, and holidays, you know, and you can spend the 4th of July with your son at the beach, that's success for someone, and that's important.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, not everyone wants to have employees. Some people just want to go in and do their four clients and go home or work for someone else, and there's nothing wrong with that. Or work at a resort. You know, not everyone is meant to be solo. I mean, I've had a lot of growing pains with being solo. It's not been easy for me. So, like, you know, make sure you really want to do it, you know, because it's.

[C]

It's.

[B]

It's a lot of up and downs. It's a lot of roller coaster. The highs are really high and the.

[A]

Lows are really low.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what? I could see now that I'm talking to you, now that I know, if I were to guess what career path you would have chosen other than this, I definitely would have said theater.

[B]

I tried that. I was broke. It's fun. I like. I like. I like people like being in front of people. It's fun. No, you're sharing something that, like, can help other people, because there's a lot of different ways people can make money in this industry. And, you know, most of the estheticians I know are making way more money than my friends with degrees. And, you know, people on us, they think, oh, she don't. She waxes vagina all day. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And people are doing very well at it, and they enjoy it, and they make women feel beautiful and men. And that's what we do. And if they don't, people don't understand it. That's okay, because we help people's self confidence. We help them feel good about themselves, and that's what we do. And if people don't understand it, they understand hair, but they don't understand waxing.

[A]

I'm like, shout us out too. Like, I see you guys showing all your hairstylists, your nail artist, your makeup artist, but where is the love to the waxers? Shout out to my Brazilian girl. They don't want. They don't shut us out, but it's okay. We're the back end. Well, it was a pleasure having you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And I'm so happy to meet you.

[B]

Likewise.

[A]

We always end this podcast with a quote, so let's hear it. Did you think of something?

[B]

Yes. Okay. So my big thing is there's a place for you in the beauty industry. Everyone you see is a potential client, and there is more than one way to do things.

[A]

Wow, that was beautiful. That was inspiring. Did you see me?

[C]

I was like, dang.

[B]

Well, when you think about it, like, think of all the people you meet in a day, and if you have your esthetician shirt on, like, and you talk to people, people will ask you, if you wear a hat that says Wax Queen, which you now have so you can test it, people are gonna be like, oh, do you do waxing? And you say, do you want to come in? I can book you right now and give me $10 off. I mean, it works. And people like, oh, my gosh, really? Yeah. Where are you at? We also do this and that and the other thing. Like, just don't be afraid to talk to people. People are missing that connection in life. There's no connection anymore on their phones. So when you're in line at Starbucks, you know, and that woman, like, turns around and says that, or when you're picking your kid up from soccer, I'm telling you, one of my friends, Melissa, she. Her whole. She was booked like that when she started just wearing her esthetician gear and talking to the soccer moms, you know, that's amazing. There's enough business for everyone. There's enough business for everyone. Everyone you see as a potential client, don't get stuck in that scarcity mindset that so many people have that, oh, there's not enough business for everyone. There is. You just gotta go out there and get it, you know, Just like, stand in your power. Be like, okay, you're ever. Your license is the same as mine. Like, people don't know how long you've been doing it. And like I said, I've seen girls that are better after a couple years than people in waxing for a long time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, I hate. I hate the term fake it till you make it.

[A]

But you got to.

[B]

You got. You got to do that at the beginning when people ask, you know, you know, your. Your. Your esthetician license is the same as mine. You got to go out there and show them, you know, and be proud. Like, this is an amazing industry. You know?

[C]

It is.

[B]

And you can really do anything you want. You just. You gotta focus. You really gotta focus. And kind of cut out all the noise and stop comparing. If you follow someone that you don't like or they make you feel icky or you find yourself being embarrassed. Not embarrassed, jealous. Just hide them. You don't need to see that.

[A]

Mute.

[B]

Yeah, mute. Just get rid of them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't need that. You need people that are going to tell you you can do it. And especially right now, because it is a challenging time. I'm not going to lie. It is a challenging time. But that's why we do things like specials. What do you get people in specials?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And then I just want to say one more thing. So when I check someone out, I do the four R's. So I want to retail, I want to rebook. I want to tell them about my referral program, and I want to write them a review. So do that. Those four things Every single time. And pretty soon you're gonna be like, oh, I have eight people today. That really works. Just no missed opportunities. That's why when the woman in Starbucks turns around and says, oh, do you wax? You just want to push that to the limit. You want to book her right then and there and get her on her on your email list and your text message list. You gotta be aggressive. Damn.

[A]

I just learned something today.

[B]

I'm going home.

[A]

I'm texting these clients from the past. I'm saying where they're. I, I'm going to remember these eyes. I'm, I'm locked in right now.

[B]

So, yeah, win back. So I learned, I mean, I learned about a win back client. I can't remember how many years. I didn't even know what that was. And that's when you offer, for those that don't know, when you offer a client that hasn't been in a while a really great deal, they can't say no to more than $10 off. So when I have, when people haven't been in a year, I will send them, you know, $20 off. You know, when you come in and get your Brazilian and brow, and by golly, those people will come back in. Win back. Win back. Campaigns work, but you've got to text people too. You can't just rely on email because not everyone opens the email.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, thank you so much.

[B]

Oh, it was so fun.

[A]

It was so fun having you. It was a pleasure meeting you and thank you guys for driving. Yeah, I'm excited and I hope to see you guys again.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Ugly sweater party.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, again, thank you again for joining and we'll see you guys in our next one. Bye.