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Becker Business
Property Tax Appeals, Valuation Expertise, and Building Lasting Businesses with Jim Field & Joseph Calvanico 6-18-26
00:23:27
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- [00:01]
Grainger Announcer
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [00:30]
Scott Becker
This is Scott Becker with the Becker business and the Becker Private Equity Podcast. Thrilled today to be joined by two brilliant business leaders. We're joined today by Joe Calvinico. Joe is the founder of J2C Valuation and any brilliant leader and entrepreneur. We're also joined today by Jim Field. Jim is one of the founders or the co founder of Field and Goldberg and is a brilliant leader in sort of the tax property reduction area. He works a lot with both Joe and then with a lot of real estate developers, investors and leaders in real estate. He also serves on the board of a bank and so much more. Joe and Jim, we're going to talk today about sort of the real estate world, the appraisal world, business and a lot more. Joe, can I ask you to take a moment and introduce yourself and then I'll ask Jim to do the same. Joe, let me turn it to you.
- [01:25]
Joe Calvinico
Sure. Thanks Scott. Thanks for having having me and Jim on today. Really been looking forward to this. So I've been an appraiser for 45 years. Over the years I, I've had the opportunity to do valuation of of real estate and then I love valuation so much, I know it's crazy, but I ended up getting a machinery equipment designation and a business valuation credential as well. On top of going to law school. And over the years I've got the chance to work on a number of great projects, especially with Jim and I've done some expert testimony over the years. That's been my background.
- [01:58]
Scott Becker
Thank you. Joe and Jim, can you take a moment and introduce yourself?
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Jim Field
Absolutely. First of all, Scott, I'd like to say I'm thrilled to be here after having my name mentioned so many times throughout the past several years. So thrilled to be here. Thank you. As you mentioned, I'm the founder of a law firm, Field and Goldberg. The firm concentrates its practice in the area of real estate tax assessment and appeal as well as transactional real estate involving purchase, sale and leasing of commercial properties. Thrilled to report that we've been doing this for the past 25 years. I represent some of Chicago's largest and most prestigious buildings, including buildings like Presidential Tower, Hancock Building, Lake Point Tower, the Drake Hotel, the Waldorf, and many, many more. Our firm, our motto is we're creative and aggressive, which really has allowed us to succeed when many others can't. And in essence, Scott, what I do is. You'll laugh. I fight for fairness in property taxation. That's really what we do. And people will say, you can't fight City hall, but Joe will tell you that's what we do every single day.
- [03:06]
Scott Becker
Well, thank you. And I've watched the both of you build great businesses and great practices, and we'll talk a little bit about that, too. What it takes to build a business. Before we do that, I want to. I want to jump into each of your substantive, substantive areas. Jim, let me start with you. When people look at the property taxes, I know most of your work is not residential. It's for big, big commercial buildings. Like you mentioned, the Hancock buildings, the Chicago icon, Presidential Towers, big, big development, and a lot more. What's the biggest misconception? Is there one that business owners have about property taxes, and are there opportunities to reduce taxes? Even in the changing economic environment, changing political environment, can you still do a lot to reduce taxes?
- [03:49]
Jim Field
Absolutely. So right now is a really interesting time in Chicago. The past several years, there's really been a red line from an institutional standpoint on investing in Chicago. And one of the main reasons for that, despite all of the good economic factors that we have here, like rent growth, people are concerned about their property taxes. And the misconception is that when an assessment comes out, a lot of business leaders or owners will say, oh, my God, we can't. This is too high. We're never going to be able to appeal this. And the reality is that the assessment being released by the assessor is just the beginning of the process. It's not near the end. So a couple basics that I just want to get out there. There's three factors in a tax bill. There's the assessed value, which is what we appeal. There's the multiplier, and then there's the tax rate. So, in essence, if everybody's assessment went up, right, and the county wanted to have the same amount of revenue as they did the last year, then the rate, by definition, would fall. So people get worked up a lot over that initial starting point. And the reality is it's just the beginning. And then from there, we take it, we file at the assessor we file at the Board of Review and from there either circuit court or a place called the Property Tax Appeal Board. So long story short is the initial assessment is just the beginning, it's not the end. And the same applies to a residential property. You look at your assessment that comes out and people say, oh my God, I'm up 30% or whatever the number is. And again, it's just the beginning.
- [05:27]
Scott Becker
Thank you. And Joe, let me ask you this because you do a lot of work together as well, and you built this great appraisal and business appraisal practice and real estate appraisal practice. Tell us a bit about how you work together and also how the appraisal fits into this fighting property taxes. Obviously people do it on the, on the residential properties, but that's a whole different business than the, the gist of what you folks do, which is big commercial properties. Joe, tell us about where you fit into this and where the appraisal split into this.
- [05:56]
Joe Calvinico
Sure, sure. Generally speaking, and certainly specifically with, with Jim and the other people that I work with throughout the, not only, certainly Chicago, but also throughout the country is generally speaking, most taxpayers, through their attorney like Jim, or through a consultant will say, you know, we, we feel like this assessment is, is, is way over what market value for this property or for this item actually is. And so what happens is then I get, I, what I do is I get engaged to do an appraisal of the property. And what we do is we put that together and that's used as the evidence for the, for the appeal. And generally speaking, what it is, is that, you know, are there times when the assessment is fair, we find through the appraisal process, sure, there are many times that we have found that. But I'd say generally speaking, the taxpayer or the attorney already has a pretty good intuition that the market value is overstated from the assessor standpoint. And that's generally where they look to me for the, the evidence to use in the actual appeal.
- [06:57]
Jim Field
God. Can I jump in for, for a quick second on that?
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Scott Becker
Sure. Please.
- [07:02]
Jim Field
Sure. So I'm going to say that Joe is one of the best in the business. I've used his products for years and years. And what I will tell you is that his appraisals are very reliable and user friendly. So this is really an art to doing it. And Joe has really mastered it. So truly enjoy working with Joe. And I found his product to be very, very helpful to my clients.
- [07:26]
Joe Calvinico
Thanks, Jim. I really appreciate that. And it's always a pleasure to work with you as well. And Scott, you know, a little bit of the backstory too is Jim and I have known each other since our days at kpmg, which is many years, a lot more than I want to actually admit to. But many years ago and then also when I went to law school, Jim was actually one of my instructors.
- [07:45]
Scott Becker
God help me, that is literally fascinating. And Joe, you've had this brilliant career and how much that do you attribute to Jim's teaching? Or you don't take it that far with his teaching?
- [07:57]
Joe Calvinico
Well, you know, actually, so Jim did a great job and it was a class on property tax assessment appeals. And happily I had gone into that class already having somewhat of knowledge because I'll tell you, the stuff that Jim brought to that class, certainly for those lessons were unbelievably good. And I think it gave a lot of the people that are in that room, that were in that room really a good basis for if they wanted to enter into the industry to kind of get a really good flavor for what it actually is.
- [08:24]
Scott Becker
No, I think that's fantastic. And Jim is one of, one of the great straight talking people of all time. Really bright, really straight talking, really gifted, actually. Talk for a second, Jim, and I'm going to ask each of you a question about this. We. Well, I'll ask you first a question about property taxes. How much of it is analytical versus political? What's the balance that it seems like that's gone back and forth over the years? How much of it's politically driven? Then I'm going to ask you both questions about building businesses because both of you have done a tremendous job of leaders in building businesses. I'm going to ask for a couple experiences around that. But Jim, start with the property tax. And Joe, come to this. Political versus analytical. What does that look like?
- [09:04]
Jim Field
All right, so first of all, every asset class is different. Okay? But from an analytical standpoint, what I would tell you is that there's a lot involved. There truly is. And it's if we're getting an appraisal from Joe, if we're doing our own income and expense analysis, analytics are absolutely key. This isn't like it was 30 years ago or even 25 years ago when we started the firm. Put politics don't really matter anymore. That said, it's if you're in front of the same people time and time again, you prove to them that you know what you're doing. You provide them with a product that's easy to understand and that gets them to where they want to go. And I think that that's helpful. So it's, again, not, oh, well, I know somebody, it's that you know them and they understand what your reputation is and they know the product that you're going to submit. That's how I would, how I would chime in.
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Scott Becker
Joe, any commentary there, too, because you're sort of on the front lines, is to write side by side with it as well. And what you've seen over the years,
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Joe Calvinico
100% underscore what Jim said. It's really about individual reputations. And like, like Jim said, is that you appear enough at certain areas or you're in court or you give expert testimony and there are opinions that, that have your name in them and what you've done. Those are the things that, that stand the test of time and in terms of overall what your reputation is. So from the standpoint, yeah. Can there be a certain amount of politics and certain things? For sure. But the thing is, at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. It matters more about what your reputation is. And obviously, Jim's built a good reputation over the years, so that's clearly what he's talking about is absolutely spot on.
- [10:46]
Jim Field
Scott, One other thing that we should talk about, if you raise the word politics and property tax, we're going to have a new assessor. Pat Hines is coming into office on, I think it's December 1st, and he's replacing Fritz Kagi. So Fritz Kagi sort of had an antagonistic tone towards both, not personally, but towards Joe and all the appraisers and me and all the other attorneys that practice in this area where Pat Hines seems to be very, very open to trying to solve problems with the tax bar and with the appraisers. So we're all very, very excited about what Pat Hines is going to bring to the table. And then there's also been another change at the Board of Review as well. So there are some political changes that are out there, and we're looking forward and excited about how that's going to impact the practice and positively.
- [11:39]
Scott Becker
Thank you so much. Joel, let me ask you this question. You've built a business. You've been involved in building several businesses. Any thoughts about that or any pieces of advice for people building businesses for CEOs, for founders?
- [11:53]
Joe Calvinico
Absolutely. I mean, and I tell people, people ask me advice about that area quite often, and what I say is that go with your gut. I mean, the reality is that there's nobody that knows about your business more than you. Okay. And for me, I knew when it was the right time. And, and I would challenge that. Anybody that's feeling that they need to go out, that they know when the right time is to and start a business. And then here again, just talking about the reputation earlier that, that helps as well as you know, I talked about this with another friend of mine just recently about the whole thing about networking and making people introductions or making introductions for people in different areas. Sometimes the mind just pops that people remember those kind of things and they want to work with you then as they like. Oh well, Joe thought about this particular issue and you know, gave me a person's name and that was a solution. So, you know, maybe he's thinking the right way, that kind of thing. So overall, being able to get out and talk to people and be present in the, in the moment, I think that's really one of the best things that I can tell you that that's helped me with my business.
- [13:01]
Scott Becker
Thank you. And Jim, you guys have built a world class tax reduction practice and you've built, built a wonderful team. Take a moment on any tips or thoughts on building a business and I'm gonna ask you a couple follow up questions on that too.
- [13:15]
Jim Field
Absolutely. So I think the key, first of all, the key is going into business with the right people. Okay. I was very, very fortunate to find my partner, Jay Goldberg, who has just been a tremendous partner for 25 years. And we complement each other greatly. So I think step one is when you start up a business, make sure that if you've got partners, you've got the right partners. Sometimes it's hard to know that, but I think that that's mission critical. The next thing is who are the people that you hire? Take the time and hire people who are outstanding in what they do, but not only that, who actually care about the work that they're doing. And you'd be surprised how many people are great, but they just don't care. At the end of the day, they're happy to leave the office at five o'. Clock. Right. They're workers. They're not making a career out of what they're doing. So what I found is you want people who take it very seriously and want it to be their career. They're not looking to walk out of the office at 5 o'. Clock. What I've also found is that when you start a business, it's really hard work and hard work pays. So I found that in order to start the firm, you have to be very, very dedicated. It sounds obvious, but it's not at all. And it's 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. And that's still how I function. So I think it's hard work and being persistent at what you do. You have a goal. And I mean, Scott, you know me pretty well. I don't let up. Right.
- [14:47]
Scott Becker
Let me ask you this question, Jim. You're an unparalleled person at sort of this thing that Joe talked about, which is networking, connecting people. And, you know, one of the things you do incredibly well is it's very genuine. Even though some of your networking and a lot of your interactions are with people you also do business with, I don't think most people you do business with feel in any way, shape or form that you're networking with them because you do business with them, but you generally seem to enjoy it. How did that evolve into being just a natural part of how you are? And how much, how much sort of credit do you give to your father, who is incredibly talented business person as well? I say it in all seriousness, credit to your father on sort of talking business around the table and so forth in your own building of businesses and your own ability to sort of network and, and make connections and do it just so naturally in a way that, you know, feels incredibly authentic. And I know it is.
- [15:47]
Jim Field
No, it absolutely is authentic. And you're right. From an early age, I watched my father and his personal interactions. So, look, my dad, he was a banker for those who don't know. And a bank is a commodity business, right? So in order to really excel in banking, you need to be the person that has the personal or the interpersonal relationships. And I saw that at a very young age. And I kind of learned from him on how to deal with people. And what I found in my practice, Scott, is that, yeah, there's a lot of tax attorneys out there. There's even a couple others that are good. Not many. No, I'm kidding. But there's definitely other tax attorneys that are out there. And what's the difference? Why hire us as opposed to anybody else? Well, first of all, I think we're going to do an amazing job. But some other people might also. But I say to myself, well, how else can I help you? And it is genuine. So, for example, I'm on a board of a bank. I might make a referral to somebody and say, hey, if you're looking for a banker, go ahead and talk to this person. So it's always thinking about, how can I help my client? Not Just how I can save them money, how can I help them? And I literally have clients who will call me about every need that they have, especially ones who are not Chicago centric people. So to your point, it does come naturally to me. And my wife will say, I don't even think about it, which I really don't.
- [17:14]
Joe Calvinico
Scott, let me chime in on one thing actually, if you don't mind, is that now Jim's everything he said. Absolutely spot on. The one other thing that, that is also very helpful in business that Jim's great at is he's responsive. Okay. And I learned that from him. I was absolutely, you know, one of the things I had to be is responsive in my business. And that's really helped me. And I, I, I picked that up from watching Jim. Jim started his firm before I started mine. So I, I got a chance to see him blaze some paths, and he absolutely did that. The other thing that, that, you know, he's too modest to say is that when he was talking about the people that he hires. He has an incredible team. I mean, he's had some really great people.
- [17:53]
Jim Field
Absolutely.
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Joe Calvinico
And I'll give a shout out to, to one of them that I absolutely. The guy I love is Jeff Wesner. That works for you. One of the greatest guys ever. One of the easiest guys to work with. And so, and that's, that's really a credit to you, Jim, is that you brought that to the table with when you, when you hired your people.
- [18:10]
Jim Field
No, Jeff, Jeff is outstanding. And we have many other people who are also outstanding. Too many, Too many to name, but you're right. And it goes back to hiring great people. And it's. In order to hire great people and to retain them, you have to present a great work environment. And it's an environment for us at field and Goldberg, that is work, life balance. And that's really mission critical to what we do. We want to be there, we want to help our clients, but we also understand that our attorneys and our paralegals need to have a life outside of the firm. And I find when they do that, it all comes back to us as well. So one of my attorneys, coaches, baseballer, is involved with his kid's baseball team and next thing you know, he's calling me up saying, jim, can you meet with so and so? Because they've got a property that they want to talk to me about. Well, how'd you meet them? I met him through the baseball game. So I think that it does come around. Good, Carl, thank you.
- [19:07]
Scott Becker
No, we've had a chance also to work with and visit with Andrew Frankenthal, who's fantastic and one of my close colleagues does auctions with Jay Goldberg. And just a fantastic team you built. Joe, talk about your business education and where it came from and the urge to be an entrepreneur. I mean, you've had this great business career. Talk a bit about sort of what were some of the formative things in your career.
- [19:27]
Joe Calvinico
Oh sure. And Scott, I gotta credit quite a bit of it to having been at KPMG. I was in public accounting for 25 years and you know, I was a partner there and that kind of thing. And it's, you learn a lot at a big four accounting firm. The one thing that they don't teach you though is some of the intricacies that we've talked about today already. The, you know, being responsive. Well, not necessarily being responsive, but certainly having some of the intricacies that like a gym has and it's been successful. But you know, the things that you do learn is the importance of different factors within a business. And I would say that that's been one of the greatest reasons in my business life that I've done well in that respect. But also is that I've had the opportunity then that I worked for a number of people in smaller businesses too. And I learned how to work with people in general just because of that. But having having that kind of background, having a little bit of big company and then smaller company background really helped the education for me and that's really what I credit a lot of my success to.
- [20:27]
Scott Becker
Really fantastic. Jim. Joe, let me ask you this follow up question. Last question. Joe, we look at the second half of this year. What are you most focused and excited about as you get into the second half of this year?
- [20:38]
Joe Calvinico
Well, and Jim mentioned the fact that we're going to have a new assessor soon and certainly we're excited about that. But we have the second half of the mainly the, the triennial assessment in Cook county. It's the south suburbs right now. We're kind of right in the middle of it and getting towards really the second half of the year we'll get the majority of the bigger townships. So it'll be interesting to see how that that all shakes out. So we'll be looking to that. Also just the overall in terms of the market in general. See what impact, you know, certainly all the recent current events have been going on and you know, they just announced inflation today. We'll see. Hopefully that doesn't put a damper on the economy and we'll see what happens going forward. But, you know, that's some of the things we'll be looking for.
- [21:23]
Scott Becker
Jim, let me ask you this question. Chicago Bears, if they moved, they move outside of Chicago. They moved Arlington Heights or moved to Hammond, does that have any impact on property taxes or is it really not an issue because they don't really pay that much property? What is that? Or the state won't have to give them so much money. Will there be any, is there any trickle down to that, to the Bears moving, staying, et cetera?
- [21:46]
Jim Field
I mean, Scott, I think it really just depends, right? So if people, if the Bears move to Indiana, are people still going to stay downtown? Right. Are they going to be eating dinner downtown? Are they going to be staying at hotels downtown, or are they going to go ahead and move to Hammond, Indiana to stay for the weekend? Right. I surmise they won't. My genuine hope is that the Bears will stay in Illinois. My vote is for Arlington Heights. For obvious reasons, it's closer for me.
- [22:14]
Scott Becker
But you've got two different people involved in this. You've got Ben Johnson, the Bears coach, is not directly involved. Then you have Brandon Johnson, the mayor of Chicago, and I guess the rumor has it that he's very against the move to Arlington Heights. So they're having a hard time getting the Chicago Coalition to back the plan to support a stadium in Arlington Heights. What's the. Any notions there? Is that something you want to stay away from talking about?
- [22:38]
Jim Field
I think I'll stay away from talking about it. But Scott, just to go back to one other item that I think we should get out there on property tax, I don't know if everybody saw in the news, but tax bills are going to be delayed again. So one of the issues that I'm focused on in the next six months is just trying to navigate a process where right now there's still 2,000 tax bills that have not been issued or some, some number close to 2000 from 2024. Right. So it's, it's causing massive problems. There's computer issues that are out there, and it's just something that people need to be aware of. If you don't get a bill, don't panic. It's just part of the process, what's going on. And it's also stymie refund checks. So that's something that we're focused on dealing with literally on a daily basis.
- [23:27]
Scott Becker
Thank you very, very much. No, it does seem like it's a bit of a mess and hopefully it evolves and improves. Jim Field, founder, name partner with Jay Goldberg of Field and Goldberg. Joe Calvinico, founder of J2C Valuation, Two brilliant leaders. I appreciate you so much coming on and joining us today on the Becker Private Equity and the Becker Business Podcast. A real pleasure. Thank you both for joining us.
- [23:52]
Jim Field
Thanks for having us, Scott. We appreciate it.
- [23:58]
Grainger Announcer
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, filters ready to clog, H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 247 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.