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Building Wealth Strategies for Physicians and Entrepreneurs with Eric Mangold of Argosy Wealth Management 7-28-26
00:28:20
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:30]
B
This is Scott Becker with the Becker business in the Becker Private Equity podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by an unusually great professional and person. We're joined today by Eric Mangold, and Eric is the founder of Argosy Wealth Management. He's going to talk about this and just a fascinating and great person, Eric. Well, we'll talk about trends, we'll talk about what you're focused on. Advice for evolving leaders and founders. Take a second and tell us about Argosy Wealth Management. What made you start this and how does your approach differ from sort of traditional CPAs and advisors?
- [01:08]
C
Well, first, thanks very much, Scott, for having me. Always a pleasure. And again, great book. Building great businesses. Just finished it last weekend. It was awesome. Yeah. Argosy Wealth Management. So I've been a financial advisor for 16 years. I originally got out of, studied for financial planning out of college. And once I got out of college, I was young, dumb and poor and, and so I was, when I was interviewing at Merrill lynch to become an advisor, the guy said, you know, listen, I, you just don't have the resources. I don't think, I think you have a genuine desire to help people, but I don't think you're ready for this profession yet because you don't know anyone. You don't know anything. And you're, you're, you're saddled up with your own student loans. So he's like, you know, how are you going to make this work? Which I actually thought was pretty interesting advice. So I went out and rounded out my sk. You know, went to work for Bloomberg lp, which is a great, an amazing experience and got a great network of people, learned as much as I could. I've been on any, every trading floor you can possibly imagine. Hedge funds, big banks, small banks, whatever. And then when I was, when I was 38, I launched my own financial planning practice out of, out of Guardian Financial, Guardian Life Insurance. And what I realized pretty quickly was that, you know, when you say financial planning, I Think most people think the very similar things, investments, insurance, et cetera, but the culture and how you go by helping your clients is vastly different. And it took me a while to discover that. And then ultimately in 2022, I was thinking to myself what the best culture is, the one that I think I have to create for myself, because no place is perfect. But if I can create the culture that I believe clients want to deliver the ultimate client experience, I said, you, I got to be the one quarterbacking and spearheading that. So, yeah, so in 2022, launched Argosy Wealth Management. It's been a fantastic, fantastic experience. And we focus on working with physicians. And I think that's about seven years ago. A friend of mine came to me who's not a physician, introduced me to a friend who is a physician, who's a neurosurgeon. And right out of the gates, the physician and I hit it off. But he said to me, Eric, he's like, you know, I don't know if you can help me or not. And I said, well, I don't know either. Let's just, let's have a chat. First thing he said to me was, I do have this question. He held up his 401k statement. He goes, eric, when do I have to pay this back? And I looked at him and I was like, come again? When you got to pay this back? And he said, yeah, I got to pay this back, don't I? And I said, doc, this is your 401k. This is what you're saving towards. This is your retirement, this is your money. And he goes, and we're talking about a neurosurgeon who. And you know, you know, in healthcare, neurosurgeons, that's some of the most competitive jobs that are sought are neurosurgeons. And he just didn't have the financial acumen. So I often called us the best meetings ever, because the day that I was, I signed all that we needed to get all the documents signed to implement the plan we agreed to, he was in surgery and then he was going to go out for a week vacation, then a conference, and he was going to be gone for a couple of weeks. He's like, you know, can we sign this stuff really quickly? So I was like, listen, I can meet up with you right before surgery. He goes, sure, I'll talk to my surgical coordinator. He's like, if you can be here at 6:30 in the morning, I'll get you and sign what you need to sign. And you'll be on your way. Like, perfect. So we go in there and you know, I'm the only bald dude in a suit where, you know, with a laptop bag with documents in my hand. And I walk in and everybody's in scrubs and. And he's like, okay, what do you need from Eric? And I was like, sign here, here, here and here. And his whole surgical team of about nine people are looking at me and they're like, who's that guy? He's like, oh my God.
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B
You got.
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C
This is Eric. This is my new financial advisor. He's like, you guys got to meet this guy. He's doing everything for me. So in the span of about 90 seconds, I walked out with a brand new client. Nine refer.
- [04:55]
B
Talk about that for a second because there's so many things that I'd like to unpack for a second. Eric versus this. And we'll talk about it in terms of business building because in my experience it's often been one reference customer, two reference customers that lead to all kinds of opportunities. And the second thing is you needed to be smart enough to connect the dots to see like, hey, this guy's interested in me and I've got my eyes open. I'm going to do great work for Kim and his family. But I got my guys open. I ought to double down and focus on this area. So talk about that. Because people think about the thousands of connections. You know, I'm in the media business. People think like, oh, you built this because you're in the media, but you built it, you made a business. No, no, no. Every single real business development was hand in comment with a few reference customers to start and growing from there. So talk about that. Having a reference customer and, and you recognizing and connecting the dots to double down on that area. And then we'll come back to financial planning. We're not really not talking about necess development, but about financial planning and some of why you're so effective. In a couple questions I've had recently from what I think of as really smart adult kids that ask questions, you're like, oh my God, I thought they would know that. Just like you thought your neurosurgeon was at least understand what a 401k is.
- [06:14]
C
Yeah. So when, when the referrals of that initial meeting, we started having the initial meetings with the referrals on a surgical team, there was this common theme. And doctors don't like talking about money. Most of them don't like talking about money. They get zero financial education in med school and Residency. And then they launch into their practice and they're focusing on patient outcomes, not their own finances. They also think that they're behind the eight ball because while most people go maybe undergraduate, then maybe a graduate degree, doctors are in school for a lot longer. So they feel like they're getting such a later start. Maybe they got med school loans. They feel like they have all these weights of the world just weighing down on them and pushing down and thinking like they're never going to be able to achieve the financial security that they really deserve. Not to mention the people that are healing us, making us better when we're sick or hurt. These common themes kept coming up and coming up and coming up. I kept hearing them and they're like, like they viewed money as a taboo topic and they didn't like talking about it. And you know, they didn't get. And they never taught this in med school. So fast forward about two years of working with a neurosurgeon. I said to him, I pulled him because we have actually become pretty close. And I said to him, you know, I'm thinking about specializing, working with people just like you. I said, because I'm hearing the same stuff over and over and over again. The same, the same complaints about how, you know, you guys are treated. Not to mention you guys have very high expectations. You feel like everybody's in your pocket because it says doctor after your name. And you know, this is what I want to do and I want to do the things I did for you, for people like you. And he said to me, eric, how can I help? And so right from there he's like, I think it's a great idea. He plugged me into a couple of associations that he's part of. I spoke at his facility, I don't even know how many times now, but I've spoken to not only physicians, but physician assistants, some LPNs, and it's shocking because they just didn't get any attention. And you know, having that specialization and listening to what they were talking about, I think with any business, right, Scott, like you listen to what the pain points are and you're like, you know, I think I have a solution, solution for you that I think can help you.
- [08:21]
B
No. And I think that's fantastic in terms of money management today. So many different things coming up. I was talking the other day at an event with one of the largest banks in the country and we're talking about employer sponsored plans in the introduction of alternative assets over time into employer sponsored plans. And of course to me this sounds half crazy, half okay. Especially in large plans. It seems so much driven by the industry, persistently by what's good for investors. How do you work through this? When a neurosurgeon client or, or somebody says to you, you know, my friends are all investing in some private companies and private equity stuff, some real estate. How should I think about that in the context of my entire portfolio?
- [09:12]
C
I think you hit the head, nail on the head as you think about it in the context of their entire portfolio. I think a lot of times, and I hear this as well on the feedback is when doctors are on the golf course or at those conferences where they're getting together, they like to talk about that shiny investment, they like to talk about that IPO that killed it, and they like to say how much better their investments are doing than everybody else. But when we look at overall money management and investment management, we're trying to do a couple things. We're trying to grow wealth, we're trying to protect wealth, and we're also trying to save our clients about dollars in taxes. And it's not always hitting that home run ball that is going to, what's going to, you know, help you win the race? Right. Because if you think about it from a baseball analogy, home run hitters do well. I mean, I'm a big Phillies fan by my Kyle Schwaber right now is leading the league in home runs. What's he also leading the league in? Strikeouts.
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B
Right.
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C
So if we can hit some triples, a lot of doubles and a lot of singles, we're going to do really, really well for our clients.
- [10:15]
B
Yes, 100%. And it's fancy about baseball though, because baseball's actually gone the other way and probably not the way for us to think about investing because baseball's really gone to this concept that's almost the venture capital concept. More and more money focused on guys that could hit 230 but hit 30 home runs a year. I mean, it's really fascinating how baseball has changed from small ball to that. It's almost how basketball changed to the three point shot. I mean, it's really fascinating to see the analytics and stuff like that. But I agree with you 100%. I'm a huge fan of the oldest ads in the world. The first goal is not to lose money and then it's to start making money on that and staying ahead of inflation. Talk to me about this issue. So one of the kids went into the Fidelity office the other day and the Fidelity person said, one of our children is 22, just out of college, just starting. There's a little bit of money put away, you know, but not a lot, of course. And, you know, and the guy says to her, one of the first things you got to do is put money into a Roth ira, put the max into it. And. And I was a little bit like, you know, I get it. But I was also a believer of she's got to have some money outside of, you know, tax deferred stuff that's easy to access. She's got some money in an emergency fund. How do you talk to an investor who's got, you know, 30, 40,000 in net worth versus an investor that has a million in net worth, just very quickly about Roth IRAs and things like that. I was curious. And then we'll go back to what are the big trends you're watching in a portfolio management? But I'd love two seconds on that. Is that something that financial planners are using a lot and encouraging a lot?
- [12:03]
C
Yeah, I mean, definitely. But the thing is, you know, I also, when making decisions, making recommendations for clients is the first thing we have. I have kind of like the five basic fundamentals of any financial plan. Really quickly, you got to get organized. Second step, protect what you have. Because nobody. Once you've built wealth, you don't want to lose it. So protect what you have. Third step is, what are you saving? Okay, how much are you saving? It's got to be, you know, 15. Whether you're making 100 grand a year or 3 million a year, you got to be saving 15 to 20% of your income. Okay, Having that emergency fund, having that emergency fund, three to six months of expenses, right? That's. And then fifth is pay down any kind of bad debt. What Didn't I talk about rates of return? Right? Those five blocks are the fundamentals of really any financial plan. Because if you cross off all of those five blocks first, then kind of the world just opens up to you. You're able to build wealth, you're able to protect wealth. And if when life, going back to baseball, when life does throw you that curveball and there's something that you need to hand that may cost money to do if you don't have that emergency fund, I don't care what you have in your Roth, because then you all of a sudden, okay, now I got to go to credit cards, I got to take a loan out. No, if you've got the emergency fund, that's a great way of saying, okay, life throws me a curveball. My emergency fund is what is Going to take care of that. I had a client one time called the Emergency Fund, her chaos fund. And I was like, why do you, why do you call it the chaos fund? And she goes, Eric, because when chaos ensues, that's where I go to pay for it.
- [13:30]
B
Totally, totally. So talk to us about what trends are you watching in financial management today? Wealth advisory today. I mean we could talk for literally hours about one of my favorite subjects, which is how you built your business, built your practice, because that's a near and dear subject to my heart. But I do want to talk a little bit about what advice you're giving to clients and how you think about portfolio management today. And just let me get you started, you know, and then we'll come back to some of the old adages like the 60:40 rule and how much money should have an emergency fund and mutual funds versus individual stocks versus index funds. But give us a sense of how you think about portfolio management.
- [14:06]
C
So one of the biggest trends that we're watching and that we're actually employing is are we working with a direct indexing strategy with a tax loss harvesting. So it's getting a little more in the weeds with this, which is fine. But most people, when they buy an index, they buy an ETF or they buy an index fund like the S&P 500 or the Russell, because buying all 500 constituents of that index can be time efficient, costly and you know, it's something that not doesn't necessarily generate a lot of results. But what we do, we have, we have an investment system that we're, that we have, that is buying the constituents of an index and then use active tax loss harvesting to harvest losses throughout the year. And what we're finding is that not only are we able to grow a portfolio, but we're able to save clients significant amount of taxes. A lot of times I get the question, I'm like, oh well, you know, saving taxes, isn't that what the CPA does? And a cpa, don't get me wrong, is a great and vital component of someone's financial plan. But when we do as financial, financial advisors, right, we're going, we're going to be doing tax planning, not tax preparation. Tax planning is how can we save a client tax dollars today, tomorrow and 20 years from now. And over the course of a relationship with our clients, which obviously we always seek out the long term relationships, we can save our clients 7 figures in taxes and possibly more just by the strategies that we're using. And these are some of, and Innovative strategies that we're employing. So much so that there's a lot of companies out there that are then, you know, trying to copycat those strategies as well. So clients want to know, can they grow their wealth and can they save money in taxes? And the answer is they can by employing some of these, you know, more, I'll say more sophisticated strategies, but strategies that ultimately are producing results 100%.
- [15:58]
B
Where do people go wrong in their financial planning? Where do you see some people make big mistakes? What people, what do people not do or think about avoiding?
- [16:07]
C
So, you know, if I was going to retile my bathroom floor, I could probably get it done, you know, and Hope Depot says, you know, come up, come up for your dyo DIY projects and we'll get it done. Let's, let's build this together, you know, But I'd much rather take somebody that's an expert in grouting and tiling than have me and do it in two hours versus me do it in two months.
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B
Right.
- [16:27]
C
You know, we have a saying retirement is not a DIY project. And not only do we say that and people said, well, you're a financial advisor, of course you're biased. You want people to work with you. Yeah, that's true. But actually Vanguard, Vanguard did a study. The Vanguard, by the way, is, is which, which the low cost type of financial advising was, was innovated with Vanguard.
- [16:47]
B
Right.
- [16:47]
C
Low cost funds, low cost ETFs. They did a study a number of years ago that said by. When clients actively work with their financial advisor over the course of a 20 year relationship, they can actually expect a 2% increase in their overall rate of return. And it's not just from the investment component, but it's also from all the other things that we do as financial advisors. Steering clients away from making bad decisions, steering CL from making emotional decisions. Right. We all remember Covid when the market was tanking and people were freaking out. You know, we, I had to be on my, on the phone with clients sometimes every single week, being like, we're going to figure this out. We're not going to sell anything. We're going to be okay. This is going to rebound once we get a handle of this. Well, the majority of the people that, you know, outside of my practice, people that wanted to sell and did sell, they missed the ultimate rebound back up.
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B
Right.
- [17:36]
C
So Vanguard says by working with an advisor, you get a 2% rate of return over the course of your increase by not working with an advisor. So I think that's really where people go wrong is they think it's a DIY project and some of it may be, but working with a professional is going to produce results over the long term.
- [17:55]
B
100%. 100%. Talk a little bit about that. Where else do you see people make mistakes? So they under allocate to equities. Over to allocate to equities. Do they try and pick stocks? How hard is it to pick individual stocks? Just give us a few moments on that.
- [18:10]
C
Yeah, I think the individual stock pickers, unless you have the time and the discipline to really allocate towards it, you know, it can be really challenging. I mean, not to mention there's all these YouTube videos and ways that you can look up the, you know, guys are making millions for you trading options and trading straddles and doing these. This strategy versus that strategy. And again, I think really at the core of that are people are really trying to hit a home run ball with their investments. And again, going back to the strikeout versus home run kind of ratio, if you're always swinging for the fences, you're 10 going to strike out a lot. And you know, I think people, you know, tend to make those mistakes when they are trying to swing for the fences all the time. And listen, I'm not telling people not to look at different stocks and, and make you make some investments in things they enjoy, but that's really what the recommendation is if you want to make some investments in your own stock portf. Invest in things you know, invest in things you enjoy. Invest in things that you think other people are going to like. Great example. I had a client and I'm dating myself. Her husband in 2007 walked into an Apple store and to buy an ipod, you know, so dating myself. But he walked into that store and he spent two hours in there and he's like, this is the coolest store I ever saw. He's like, this is the coolest store, the coolest products. The people are nice, they're helpful. I love the ipod. He went home and he bought 5,000 shares. That was in 2007.
- [19:38]
B
Take a second, take a second because you're, you're focusing on something that we just talked about on the podcast, I think this week. And it came out of and reminded me of it by reading a recent book called the House of Fidelity. Because Peter lynch was the original proponent of exactly what you're talking about. Talk about how you think about that today because I love that. I mean I go into stores all the time where I use services all the time. Love Using Amex probably should invested more in it a long time ago. You know, stall Lululemon becoming popular. Shop at heated how they treated me at rh even though it's a great store. It should have listened to those signals. But Lulu's getting better again. But talk about that. Because Peter lynch expounded on that concept of a starting point of investing. Not, not the end all, but a starting point that you got to still do deep research with those stocks. But talk about that concept of really using your own common sense about what you love and see out there. Yeah.
- [20:33]
C
I mean, because you're really looking at it and you're saying, if this is something that I love, enjoying the customer experience is great, then it probably would work for other people too. And if it's working for the masses, then it might be something worth investing in. You know, I've got a physician client who came to me and he said, you know, I'm looking at, I'm looking at this specific medical device company. And I said, and he's an orthopedic surgeon. And I said, okay. I go, why don't you tell me about it? He goes, well, Eric, I'm calling to ask you about it. I said, well, Doc, listen, you're on the OR living this on a day to day basis. You tell me about this device, this device company and then we'll, we'll talk about what, what I think. But I said, I can give you all the information that I can give you about their financials, Mike, but what's your experience as a surgeon, as a practitioner, as a clinician of using this? Is it helping patients? Is the medical device rep. Are they giving you good advice? Are they helping you? You know, is this something that is economical? Is it easy to use? You know, what's the, what are the patient outcomes? And for a good 30 minutes, he explained to me all of the beautiful things that this one particular device is doing for him. And I was like, oh, that kind of sounds like you answered your own question. He goes, yeah, I kind of did, didn't I? Not only did he love the product himself, but he saw the positive patient outcomes. He's like, you know, I, he's like, I think I have to invest in this. You know, he kind of talked himself into it, it based upon his own experience that he felt other physicians could use and for the fact that patients were benefiting from it.
- [22:04]
B
I love that. And take a second on. Let me ask another question because I love that whole theory. As long as you combine it with doing some Research and understanding what's going on with the company, actually in the financial stuff like that. But take a second on, you've built a business from scratch. It's really remarkable. A few pieces of advice that you would give to evolving founders.
- [22:29]
C
When I first started as a financial advisor, I asked the president of the firm. I said, what are the two reasons? I said, you know, financial advisors. He said, the failure rate in two years is 80%. So ten hundred advisors will start today. In two years, eighty of them would be gone. And I went to the president of the firm, I said, why is that? And he goes, I'll give you Eric, I'll give you two reasons. He goes, you're starting a business. You're starting a business. You're starting a practice of helping people. The first businesses, first order of operations is you have to be belly to belly with people that you can help. He said, you got to be sitting across the chair from people that you know you can help. And you have to have that genuine desire that you want to help them and you know you can help them. And that's first. You have to never run out of people that you can talk to. So he's like, you have to be putting yourself out there. And he goes, the second reason, you got to be able to take a punch. I go, scott, I got. I just read your book, right? You know how to take a punch. You know, I know how to take a punch because you got to be able to take a punch and get back up. Because there's days when you're building a business, when you question it, you're like, oh, did I make the right decision? Is this for me? You know, do. What do I do? I pivot and you got to be able to take a punch. The Japanese have a great saying. It's. It's get knocked down seven times and get up eight.
- [23:45]
B
You know, it's so funny you mentioned that phrase. When I was a young partner building a law practice at the firm, there was a young lawyer who watched me get abused by the older partners. The older partners were very intent on, this is a long time ago, 30 years ago. And they would say things like, we want you to build your own practice. What they were really saying is, don't do that, because we really need to work in our clients to grow our clients. And so it was very clear that there was this very, very sort of like mixed message about really growing a practice, really becoming a rainmaker. And I was a young lawyer and saw people in their 50s treated like dogs because they didn't have control of their life. And. And the only way to control your life was to build your own practice within the firm. I didn't want to treat anybody like a dog, but I wanted control of my life. And. And it was. There was a lawyer, Kurt Foyer, who was a young lawyer at the time, a few years older than me, young partner, and he was very empathetic. And he came to me one day and said he was watching this now. I'd go to market. He'd say, can I get a. Can I get help on something? And they would say, no, no, no, not till your partner. Then I would go, then I was a partner. They'd say, no, no, no, not to your equity partner. And then at some point, I got to have the biggest practice of the firm. And I still, like, then I didn't want to talk to those people. I. I never wanted their help, you know, but it. But it was fast because Kurt was a relative young lawyer, five, seven years older than me, and came to me one day and said, look, you're taking a lot of this. And there's a great Japanese proverb, which is the nail that sticks up gets knocked down. And it was very, like, meaningful to me because he saw what I was going through, and it was encouraging to keep going because it was going well. It's starting to see signs of success. But the signs of success early are very small compared to what you end up with. Just like you accumulating assets under management, and growth starts with a small amount, and you say 80% are out in two years, you could be at a small number of years, but you have to see enough promising signs to keep really going. Yeah, yeah, and you did that.
- [25:39]
C
And also getting, like I said, getting knocked down, you know, and having to get back up, just like. Just like you did, I'm sure, you know, with building all your businesses, you know, there's times where you're like, oh, man.
- [25:48]
B
Oh, my God. There's a. There's a great. Also adage about getting punched in the face. That when you get punched in the face by competitor, that's the point at which, you know, you're starting to make progress, and you have to recognize it for that. And I. I won't go into them here. I have a couple great stories on getting punched in the face and what it felt like. Now, when my other leaders or people that are evolving their business get punched in the face, I'm able to tell them, no, that's a sign you're making progress. Like, it's Also, if you're building a business like you're building, you have to meet a lot of people to start getting them to sign on and join you as a customer, as a client. And you're going to get a lot of no's. And you will have people building businesses that don't even get into the arena because they can't deal with those nos.
- [26:45]
C
When I first started as a financial advisor, one of the guys I became very friendly with in the company, I'm still very. We're at different firms now, and I'm at my own firm. He's his own firm, but he's still a very good friend of mine. He said, you know, Eric, one of the things I got to tell you when you're launching your own business, especially being. And maybe this is true, Scott, you need to tell me for being a lawyer, is that when you launch a financial advisory practice, he said, it's like you just opened up a bar and the next day all your friends quit drinking. He said, because you'll talk to people and talk to people and you know, you're the right person, you know, you're the right fit. You know, you can help the people and they're just, and they're just not interested for whatever reason. And you know, you get that. And you get that, that gut feeling that you're like, man, like, I know I'm right for everything, but it just was for whatever reason, reason, maybe the stars just haven't aligned yet. But yeah, you said, you know, it's like you opened up a bar, next, next day, everybody stopped drinking. And I said, you know, a couple years down the road, I was like, that was such a true statement. Such a true statement. And it's. But you have to. If, you know, I think. And it goes back to your book, Scott, like building great businesses where you talk about being so passionate about what you're doing. If you don't have that passion, I think if you do get knocked down, it's easier to quit it. But if you have that passion, know, hey, you know what? This is my, this is my calling in life. That passion, I think, pushes you through those times where, you know, you, you
- [28:05]
B
got punched in the face 100%. 100%. Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right. And it is fascinating. Eric, give us a sense of where could people reach you if they want to reach you or talk to you.
- [28:20]
C
Best spot, head over to my website, just emangold.com I've clients nationwide, so, you know, there's, there's rarely somebody that we can't help but emang E M A n G o l d.com Best place to get me some freebies there. There's some free ebooks, videos of talking about the current events in the market, and a spot where they can sign up or, you know, book an appointment with me.
- [28:41]
B
Eric, an absolute pleasure to visit with you. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Becker Business and the Becker Private Equity Podcast.
- [28:47]
C
Thank you so much.
- [28:48]
B
Scott.