Becker Business Podcast

Episode: Leadership Lessons with Holly Buckley and David Pivnick of McGuireWoods LLP

Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Scott Becker
Guests: Holly Buckley (Chair, Healthcare Department, McGuireWoods LLP), David Pivnick (Partner, Litigation, McGuireWoods LLP)

Episode Overview

In this leadership-focused episode, Scott Becker hosts Holly Buckley and David Pivnick of McGuireWoods LLP. The trio explores actionable leadership advice for emerging and established leaders, discusses what leaders should avoid, and shares practical experiences from managing teams in highly demanding legal and healthcare environments. The episode is conversational, packed with memorable moments, practical wisdom, and candid anecdotes about fostering high-performing teams and addressing workplace challenges.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Best Leadership Advice for Emerging Leaders

Holly Buckley’s Advice

• Recognize Unlimited Potential in Team Members:
  "Never underestimate the ability of your team members. I think the best results I get from people when I assume that they have no ceiling and that they can achieve absolutely anything and they will often amaze you with what they can achieve."
  — Holly Buckley [01:06]
• Avoid setting artificial limits for individuals. When given the chance, team members may surpass expectations; arbitrary ceilings may diminish achievement.

David Pivnick’s Advice

• Have a Clear Plan—Individually and for the Team:
  "Make sure that you have a plan and know what you're trying to do ... revisiting and checking in on that plan periodically to see how you're doing relative to goals and targets and if those are being satisfied or if adjustments need to be made, I think is critical to then moving forward with executing on the plan."
  — David Pivnick [03:18]
• Leaders should set strategic goals, communicate them clearly, and regularly assess progress. This applies at both the individual and group levels.

2. Behaviors Leaders Should Avoid

Holly Buckley’s Perspective

• Avoid Belittling, Micromanagement, and Lack of Self-Awareness:
  "Belittling people, making people feel badly about things, micromanaging; there's so many kind of bad leadership traits ... Just trying to be really self aware is the best thing you can do to try and avoid that."
  — Holly Buckley [02:31]
• Leaders should strive for self-awareness, as everyone will sometimes slip into less-than-ideal behaviors, but recognizing and correcting these is crucial.

David Pivnick’s Perspective

• Don't Place Yourself Above the Team:
  "If you have to remind people repeatedly you're the leader, you're probably not a very good leader ... Acting as though you're on a different level from the team and trying to build that distinction ... is often very detrimental."
  — David Pivnick [05:17]
• The best leaders build camaraderie and trust, not hierarchy. Continually emphasizing authority can erode respect and teamwork.

3. Handling Underperformance and Team Challenges

Holly Buckley on Managing Underperformers

• Feedback Should Be Direct, Timely, and Unemotional:
  "Anytime you're dealing with an underperformer ... the most important thing is communication with that person. It should be really continual, timely, unemotional feedback and letting people know the impact they’re having."
  — Holly Buckley [07:02]
• Early, honest communication can prevent escalation and help individuals self-correct.
• Example given: Addressing "bad vibes" with a team member, who responded positively to honest, immediate feedback.

4. Identifying Talent and Evaluating Potential Team Members

David Pivnick’s Approach

• Hard Work, Resilience, and Personality Fit Over Grades:
  "I look less at [grades] because I assume the folks were meeting sort of pass the baseline intelligence test ... So I'm sort of looking ... One, is there a demonstrated history of hard work? ... Also ... how they've handled competing challenges ... I'm trying to figure out personality fits and whether or not I think this is someone I'll enjoy working with."
  — David Pivnick [09:33]
• Key factors: History of balancing work/extracurriculars, demonstrated resilience, and the ability to fit well within the team’s culture.

Considering Exceptionally Gifted Candidates

• Intellect Isn't Everything: "When we're really trying to invest in people and build for long term success ... it's got to be more than just pure raw intelligence. If it doesn't get matched by work ethic and the ability to work well within a team. No."
  — David Pivnick [13:11]
• High intelligence is valued but must be accompanied by humility, team orientation, and a strong work ethic. Notorious anecdote: A candidate saying, “It’s really complicated, you may not understand it,” led directly to a ding in the hiring process.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Avoiding Limits:
  "Don't set a ceiling either for yourself or for your people. Let them set that ceiling and figure that ceiling out."
  — Scott Becker [01:58]

• On Planning:
  "If you don't have a plan as to where you're going, you're going to end up there, but you don't know where that's going to be."
  — Scott Becker [04:36], paraphrasing Alice in Wonderland

• On Feedback & Difficult Conversations:
  "The more you bottle things up and procrastinate dealing with it, the more it becomes a bigger thing than it often needs to be in a surprise to the person who's receiving that feedback."
  — Holly Buckley [08:31]

• On Intellectual Elitism:
  "It's really complicated, you may not understand it."
  — Interview candidate recounted by David Pivnick [12:48]
  Immediate response: "I immediately thought to myself … you’re not getting a job offer." [12:57]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:01] — Holly Buckley’s intro and main leadership advice
• [02:25] — Holly on what leaders shouldn’t do
• [03:12] — David Pivnick’s intro and core leadership advice
• [05:17] — David on what not to do as a leader
• [06:39] — David asks Holly about handling underperformance
• [07:02] — Holly’s process for managing underperformers
• [09:02] — Holly asks David how he evaluates potential hires
• [09:25] — David on hard work, personality, and interviewing
• [12:16] — Becker and Pivnick discuss exceptionally gifted candidates and hiring philosophy
• [12:48] — Anecdote on interview etiquette and humility

Conclusion

This episode distills high-level legal leadership into actionable lessons, emphasizing humility, planning, the removal of artificial barriers for talent, and open, timely communication within teams. Both guests underscore the importance of self-awareness in avoiding pitfalls and champion a commitment to both the human and strategic dimensions of leadership. The lively rapport, memorable anecdotes, and clear, candid insights make this episode a valuable resource for leaders in any field.