Trends and Tensions in Business Deals

Podcast: Becker Business
Host: Scott Becker
Guests: Michael Weiss and Michael Burney, Partners at WeissBurney
Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott Becker hosts corporate lawyers Michael Weiss and Michael Burney for an in-depth discussion about current trends, tensions, and practical realities in business transactions, particularly mergers & acquisitions (M&A). The conversation covers broad market conditions, industry hot spots, challenges in deal structuring, evolving buyer and seller dynamics, and the importance of solving client problems over complicating legal processes.

Guest Introductions: Practice and Philosophy

Michael Weiss [00:34]

• Background: 37 years in legal transactional work, with an initial background as an accountant/CPA before becoming a lawyer.
• Practice focus: Corporate M&A, governance, real estate, working with a range of clients including private equity, financial institutions, and nonprofits. Industry agnostic, with work both domestically and internationally.
• Operating ethos: "The core of our practice is transactional mergers and acquisitions and all the legal work and business related work that goes with that." [00:58]

Michael Burney [01:58]

• Background: 15 years of practice, grew up in a legal family, with expertise in both real estate and M&A.
• Firm genesis: Launched WeissBurney with Weiss after years working together at another firm, emphasizing direct client service.
• Practice philosophy: “We're not here to build the world's most complicated mousetrap. We're here to solve people's problems. We're here to help people accomplish their goals.” [02:19]
• Key value: Responsiveness—no middlemen, direct communication.

Solving Problems, Not Over-Lawyering [03:50 – 05:51]

Key Discussion:

• Too many lawyers overcomplicate transactions, incentivized by billable hours.
• The focus should be on actionable priorities, not “10 turns of a document over meaningless changes.”
• “With experience, we... learn what are the aspects of transactions... that are just a waste of time. What matters... is quickly being able to determine from the client what matters to them and advocating and using that as your true north.” – Michael Burney [04:23]
• Good lawyers should identify the 5-7 issues that really matter and avoid needless debate over the rest.

Market Conditions: Reasons for Optimism and Pessimism [07:03 – 12:05]

Positive Environment:

• U.S. economic environment remains pro-business: stable taxes, interest rates, recovering post-Covid.
• “Overall, I think business is good.” – Michael Weiss [08:18]
• Strong demand for deals, plenty of “dry powder” (capital) in private equity.
• Aging baby boomer founders: creates a steady supply of businesses coming to market for succession or sale.
• M&A activity expected to remain robust for the foreseeable future.

Cautions:

• Tariff uncertainty, global conflicts, and regulatory changes represent persistent headwinds.
• “Some businesses... are at risk of becoming obsolete. So either evolve or your business may become quickly obsolete.” – Michael Weiss [11:19]
• Rapid industry shifts mean “evolve or die,” using malls as a metaphor: some thrive, others fade based on adaptability.

Industry Hotspots and Coldspots [12:51 – 17:56]

Manufacturing:

• “Manufacturing is poised to be on the upswing,” particularly as international shipping and trucking slow.
• Domestic production becomes more attractive with supply chain challenges.

Technology & AI:

• “The hot money is obviously chasing AI and data centers... returns... just sort of keep shrinking because there's so much more money.” – Michael Burney [13:49]
• Chicago is emerging as a tech hub.

Healthcare:

• “Always a very steady industry... a lot of activities... models changing and a lot of transactions.” – Michael Weiss [15:48]

Professional Services:

• Asset-light models are attractive; command high multiples.

Consumer/Retail:

• Not “hot”—logistics and margin pressures make it a tough space.

Media/Communications:

• Growth sector with rapid innovation and shifting audiences.

Financial Services & Energy:

• Financial services steady as a "backbone" industry.
• Energy varies with commodity prices and regulations.

Notable Quote:
“I still think American business and the American economy, especially North American... is ahead of the game.” – Michael Weiss [17:41]

Buyers and Sellers: Who’s at the Table? [18:19 – 20:51]

Buyers:

• Private equity funds are the dominant buyers—quick, well-funded, tend to pay higher multiples.
• Strategic buyers (other companies) also active, often looking to acquire for growth rather than build organically.
• “No shortage of buyers.” – Michael Weiss [19:52]

Sellers:

• Family-owned businesses, especially baby boomer owners seeking retirement/monetization.
• Private equity firms both buy and sell, as they cycle through investments.
• Corporate spin-offs.

Deal Structuring and Decision Making [21:15 – 28:07]

Structuring Tactics:

• Deal size influences structure: SBA lending available for smaller deals but less competitive versus private equity.
• Seller notes/financing are still tools but less prevalent in competitive markets.
• “People are really sharpening their pencils... getting more bogged down in details when it comes to conducting due diligence.” – Michael Burney [22:22]
• Savvy sellers (even family businesses) are adopting better institutional controls and prepping for sale (“grading the road” for fewer obstacles).

Environment of Tension and Negotiation:

• More stakeholders at the table: lenders, various equity classes, board negotiations.
• “I’d like to use the word tension in deals. It seems like there’s more tension these days because each side really wants to get it right.” – Michael Weiss [24:25]
• Crowded decision-making environment, especially on governance and pricing, leading to deeper negotiation.
• Technology accelerates negotiations—information moves faster, virtual discussions are routine.
• Success means both sides get what they want, but it takes robust debate: “No one wants to get it wrong because... everybody has to report to somebody and they don’t necessarily want to win everything, but they don’t want to lose 100%.” – Michael Weiss [27:47]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michael Burney [02:19]:
  “We're not here to build the world's most complicated mousetrap. We're here to solve people's problems. We're here to help people accomplish their goals.”
• Michael Weiss [07:41]:
  “There's a little bit of a disconnect in valuations... everyone believes their business is worth really high multiples and it seems a little bit hard to get deals done.”
• Michael Burney [13:49]:
  “The hot money is obviously chasing AI and data centers... is that going to... the trades seem to indicate this is sort of taking the same trajectory as the dot com boom.”
• Michael Weiss [24:25]:
  "I'd like to use the word tension in deals. It seems like there's more tension these days because each side really wants to get it right."
• Michael Weiss [27:47]:
  "No one wants to get it wrong because... they have to report to somebody and they don’t necessarily want to win everything, but they don’t want to lose 100%."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Guest Intros & Firm Philosophy: 00:34 – 03:50
• Solving vs. Complicating Problems: 03:50 – 05:51
• Market Conditions & M&A Outlook: 07:03 – 12:05
• Industry Hot/Not Overview: 12:51 – 17:56
• Buyers/Sellers Discussion: 18:19 – 20:51
• Deal Structures, Tensions, Governance: 21:15 – 28:07

Summary Takeaways

• The M&A market remains robust, with plenty of buyers and a steady pipeline of sellers, particularly as demographics drive succession events.
• Successful dealmaking now requires not just legal acumen but a focus on practical problem solving and prioritizing client objectives.
• Private equity remains a force, but traditional strategic buyers are also active.
• Key sectors for growth include manufacturing, tech/AI, healthcare, and media, while consumer/retail faces challenges.
• Deals are more complex and tense as stakeholders multiply and information flows quicker—making effective negotiation and clarity of priorities critical to closing.