Building High Performing Teams with Holly Buckley of McGuireWoods LLP 5-15-26

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Building High Performing Teams with Holly Buckley of McGuireWoods LLP

Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast
Host: Scott Becker
Guest: Holly Buckley, Chair, Healthcare Department, McGuireWoods LLP
Date: May 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott Becker sits down with Holly Buckley, Chair of the Healthcare Department at McGuireWoods, for a deep dive into the art and nuances of building high-performing teams within the legal and private equity-driven healthcare space. The discussion focuses on what makes talent successful, the interview and hiring process, the significance of energy, drive, and resilience, and frequent mistakes organizations make when assembling leadership teams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Defines "Great Talent"?

• Balance of Skills and Intangibles:
  • Holly Buckley emphasizes that successful professionals must have both a threshold level of skill/intelligence and strong intangibles like drive, resilience, adaptability, and emotional intelligence.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “I think ultimately, the other stuff—the intangibles, the drive, resilience, adaptability, emotional IQ—those things go further and probably predict more the ceiling.” (02:02)
  • High competence without adaptability or drive often leads to quicker burnout or limited advancement.

2. Traits to Look for During an Interview

• Technical Proficiency and Curiosity:
  • It’s not enough to answer technical questions; strong candidates discuss broader industry trends and show genuine interest in the field.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “When you can validate that candidates both know the answer to some technical questions in a proficient way, but then they’re also looking at industry trends ... that’s a really good indicator.” (04:52)
• Energy Level ("High Motor"):
  • Success in law and private equity requires sustained energy and stamina, as these roles are demanding and require consistent effort over time.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “In order to be successful, you have to have the energy to really keep going… over a long time period through your career to really move the needle.” (05:27)
• Self-Awareness & Coachability:
  • The best hires are confident yet acutely aware of their weaknesses, open about where they need support, and willing to grow.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “I do not expect anyone ... to feel like they are great at everything. That’s just impossible ... It really indicates the person is coachable and not overconfident.” (06:43)
  • Overconfidence is flagged as a risk, especially in legal professionals.

3. Common Hiring Mistakes

• Misplacing Top Individual Contributors in Leadership:
  • Promoting someone solely due to their strong performance as an individual contributor is a frequent error; leadership demands different, often unselfish, skills.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “A great individual contributor does not often equal a great leader... You’ve got to look at whether people can build teams and develop talent and are unselfish with their time.” (09:17)
• Overvaluing Pedigree:
  • Relying heavily on educational or resume pedigree can cause organizations to overlook talented individuals from non-traditional backgrounds.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “It feels good and is often validated when you can hire the top performer ... But I think that there’s a risk when you outweigh that and take it as the guarantee of success. And it often isn’t.” (10:18)

4. Energy Level as a Key to Professional Success

• Critical but Not Singularly Important:
  • High energy is essential but needs to be paired with competency and judgment. High-energy, low-competence individuals can be counterproductive.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley): “People with a high motor who also have the other pieces—they can achieve so much, and they do achieve so much.” (11:46)
  • Scott Becker affirms that high energy is virtually always present in highly successful professionals.
    • Quote (Scott Becker): “Hard to be very successful without a lot of energy and a high motor.” (12:14)

5. Memorable Moments & Banter

• Playful Commentary on Colleagues:
  • The hosts have a light-hearted exchange regarding David Pivnick’s intelligence and efficiency, which underscores the importance of both intelligence and work ethic.
    • Quote (Holly Buckley, on David Pivnick): “He works incredibly hard and is incredibly efficient... very smart and has the best judgment in general. There is no litigator I prefer to work with.” (13:53)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Intangibles Predicting Success:

  • "The intangibles—the drive, resilience, adaptability, emotional IQ—those things go further and probably predict more the ceiling.”
    — Holly Buckley (02:02)

• On Self-Awareness:

  • “I really like to find someone who ... is very aware of the areas that they need to grow. That really indicates that the person is coachable.”
    — Holly Buckley (06:43)

• On Top Performers as Leaders:

  • “A great individual contributor does not often equal a great leader... You’ve got to look at whether people can build teams and develop talent.”
    — Holly Buckley (09:17)

• On Pedigree:

  • “...risk when you kind of outweigh that and you take that as kind of the guarantee of success. And it often isn’t.”
    — Holly Buckley (10:18)

• On Sustained Energy:

  • “People with a high motor who also have the other pieces—they can achieve so much, and they do achieve so much, and they get so much out of it.”
    — Holly Buckley (11:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Setting Up the Discussion
  • [00:27]–[01:38] — Scott Becker introduces Holly Buckley and frames the episode’s key question.
• Intangibles vs. Skills in Talent
  • [01:38]–[02:29] — Weighing attitude and resilience versus intelligence/skills.
• Interview Process and Traits to Look For
  • [03:25]–[05:26] — How Holly evaluates candidates; importance of technical and industry knowledge, plus energy.
• Self-Awareness and Coachability
  • [05:26]–[07:26] — Discussion on the need for self-awareness and the dangers of overconfidence.
• Common Hiring Mistakes
  • [08:50]–[10:57] — Examining errors such as misplacing contributors in leadership and overvaluing pedigree.
• On High-Energy/Higher Motor Employees
  • [11:00]–[12:24] — Importance of energy as an ingredient for professional success.
• Colleague Banter on Talent and Efficiency
  • [12:37]–[14:03] — Discussion of David Pivnick’s blend of efficiency, intelligence, and energy.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Success is a blend of foundational skills and powerful intangibles—especially drive, adaptability, and energy.
• Interviewers should look beyond surface-level performance or prestigious backgrounds, seeking technical competence, curiosity, and self-awareness.
• The ability to sustain energy over time is a strong predictor of performance, but must be balanced with competence and sound judgment.
• Leadership requires more than individual performance; it demands the capacity to build teams and develop others.
• Self-awareness and openness to coaching are seen as vital for growth and avoiding the pitfalls of overconfidence.
• Holly Buckley exemplifies these traits, as affirmed by Scott Becker’s closing praise.

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For listeners seeking to improve their hiring strategies and team performance, Holly Buckley offers a candid, insightful look into what truly drives long-term success in competitive, high-growth environments.

Transcript

[Onward Headhunting Representative]

Great companies aren't built on average talent. In private equity backed high growth businesses, the right operator changes everything. Onward Headhunting partners with founders, operators and investors to build elite finance strategy and operations teams. From early hires to exit ready leadership, we deliver the talent that drives outcomes. If you are scaling or transacting, go onward. Visit onward headhunting.com or find us on LinkedIn to learn more.

[Scott Becker]

This is Scott Becker with the Becker Business and the Becker Private Equity Podcast. We're thrilled today to be joined by brilliant leader, strategist, talent evaluator and more. We're joined today by Holly Buckley who is the chair of the healthcare department at McGuire Woods. She has done an incredible job of building that department and growing it. A ton of different efforts between private equity driven healthcare, traditional healthcare, big hospitals and health systems as well as lots of different types of ancillary providers and businesses, whether in behavioral health and surgery centers and a whole number of other areas. Holly we're going to talk today about talent recruiting. How do you know when somebody's right fit? How you how do you know that they're not the right fit? And a lot more so let's talk for a second about. Let me start with this overview question. When you look at great talent, how much of that is skill versus energy versus drive, resilience and attitude? How much of it is just straight attitude and really showing up fully versus great intelligence or specific great skill sets? How do you look at that or think about that?

[Holly Buckley]

Yeah, I think it has to be both.

[David Pivnick]

But I think as long as there's a threshold level of skill and intelligence,

[Holly Buckley]

I think ultimately the, the other stuff,

[David Pivnick]

the intangibles, the drive, resilience, adaptability, emotional iq, those things go further and probably

[Holly Buckley]

predict more the ceiling.

[David Pivnick]

I think there's a bunch of super duper smart people who don't have as

[Holly Buckley]

much of the other stuff and they get sold out.

[David Pivnick]

I think earlier.

[Holly Buckley]

But I think if you've got a threshold level of skill and ability, but

[David Pivnick]

you have, you know, a mountain of the other things that can get you a lot further.

[Scott Becker]

Thank you. And talk to us for a second about so attitude, some level of intelligence, very, very important. But if you don't have the right attitude and the right personal skills, intelligence is going to get you that far. Really, you've got to have both. Right. I think that's, I think I couldn't agree more with you about that. When you first interview someone, what are the first traits you think about when you think about them being successful? Is it things that you Meet them in person? Is it things on paper? Is it some mix of those things? But what are the traits that lead you to think? We all know that hiring is ultimately an educated guess. So even if someone is great when you meet them, where they'll be a long term driven person and really want to take care of business or the course of years versus they show up well to begin with, but don't over time, it's very hard to predict those things. But are there a few traits that you look for that start to give you a hint as to whether somebody's going to be a success and whether it'll be a successful fit with the department?

[David Pivnick]

Yeah. And I mean, you've kind of indicated this through your question, but this is so hard. And if I had this stuff fully

[Holly Buckley]

figured out, I would probably be in

[David Pivnick]

a different spot that I am right now, because this is one of the hardest things about recruiting is cutting through to get to the source of the truth. And I've certainly made mistakes and I've made many of them in hiring and it's very, very hard not to. And I think we're constantly looking at how to, how to figure this out and what to look for and what to ask.

[Holly Buckley]

But I think some of the things

[David Pivnick]

that have worked well for me is making sure that you ask some technical questions in addition to just the general

[Holly Buckley]

questions and seeing where that goes.

[David Pivnick]

And I think some of the people who have done really, really well have answered the question both correctly on a technical level, but then have answered beyond that to get more into thoughts about the industry. And I think when you can, when you can validate that candidates both know the answer to some technical questions in a proficient way, but then they're also looking at industry trends and what's actually happening in the business world outside of, you know, just providing the legal answer,

[Holly Buckley]

I think that's a really good indicator

[David Pivnick]

because it shows that the person is interested in the market that they're operating. They're not just wanting to sit in their office and do their work, but they're looking at the broader context.

[Holly Buckley]

It shows that they're a student, that

[David Pivnick]

they're looking to learn things probably above and beyond what they technically need just

[Holly Buckley]

to do their job.

[David Pivnick]

And it shows an energy level in general. Like people are generally not low energy if they're looking for things above and beyond what they have to do.

[Holly Buckley]

And I think that kind of gets

[David Pivnick]

to the second area that I really look for and it's energy. It's. And so obviously I'm in the Legal market. I am a lawyer and I run a legal department. And, and this job is hard. It's not a 9 to 5, it's a lot more than that. And in order to be successful, you have to have the energy to really keep going. And there's the overused phrase of it's a marathon and not a sprint. But it couldn't be more true. It's you've got to keep going and you've got to keep going for a long time each day and week over a long time period through your career to really move the needle and you've got to have a lot of energy to do that. And you've got to be able to get up every day with a kind of fresh, renewed set of energy or at least most days to execute on that. So really looking at how energetic is

[Holly Buckley]

somebody, are they going to be able

[David Pivnick]

to keep up the pace?

[Holly Buckley]

And those people can then create momentum

[David Pivnick]

around them and motivate other people. And I think the final thing that I try to look at is self awareness and people who can actually identify strengths and weaknesses and know where they need to grow and recognize. I mean, I do not expect anyone, whether it's myself or someone 10 years

[Holly Buckley]

more senior to myself to feel like

[David Pivnick]

they are great at everything. That's just impossible. And so to be able to identify where they need support and additional resources or where they want to continue to grow professionally. And I think that really indicates that the person is coachable and that they are not overconfident. One of the most dangerous things in

[Holly Buckley]

the legal profession is folks who are

[David Pivnick]

overconfident because they're likely to get out ahead of their skis.

[Holly Buckley]

And so I really like to find

[David Pivnick]

someone who, I don't want people who are lacking in confidence, but that right balance of being confident enough to be able to counsel and work with clients and deliver messages, but who are also very aware of the areas that they need to grow.

[Scott Becker]

So so many things that you said I could not agree with you more on, particularly in this world of information overload, AI everything else. This ability for lawyers, professionals to be truly engaged and interested and really connect with clients and people in business is so important. You and I have seen over the years some great lawyers that we think of almost as back office lawyers. And because of that lacking in that desire or ability or want to really deeply connect with the industry, with people, they're somewhat limited in their careers. And you really have to have both the, that, that and that, that knowledge, that curiosity of what is going on. I think is so important. And that ability to want to deal with people, it's just so critical to everything we do today, particularly in the AI world, the information overload work. The second thing, which is this concept of, of you don't exactly know what you have until you have it. And it's an evolution with talent and growing with talent, I think is also completely right on as well. Couldn't agree more. Take us forward, Howie, to the question of how do you know or what, what errors do people make in hiring, if any? What do you think about that? What are mistakes that organizations can make when hiring leaders, building teams, hiring. What are some of your thoughts there?

[Holly Buckley]

Yeah, I mean, there's so many of

[David Pivnick]

them and they're so easy to make. And especially in a profession like law where people are trained to interview well, they know how to communicate and structure answers and project confidence and build a narrative.

[Holly Buckley]

So it's very easy to make mistakes in hiring.

[David Pivnick]

It's much harder to do it kind of consistently well. But I think in terms of mistakes

[Holly Buckley]

in hiring leaders, I think is looking for a leader who is the highest performing individual contributor. I think some of the time leaders

[David Pivnick]

and contributors are one and the same or they can be embodied within the same person. But I think that a great individual contributor does not often equal a great leader.

[Holly Buckley]

You've got to look at whether people

[David Pivnick]

can build teams and develop talent and are kind of unselfish with their time and can really do all the things that's needed in leadership. So I do think that's a frequent error is rewarding the high performer with a leadership role when that's just fully suited for them. I think another thing is probably overweighting pedigree. And I think, Scott, you and I have talked about this a lot where it's, it's, it feels good and it's often validated when you can hire the, the top performer.

[Holly Buckley]

And it's a much greater risk to

[David Pivnick]

hire someone who didn't have great grades

[Holly Buckley]

or has, you know, came from a bad education.

[David Pivnick]

You are taking more of a risk. And I think that there's a.

[Holly Buckley]

We've both seen several people come through

[David Pivnick]

our ranks who have been at the top of their class and have been incredibly successful and talented. But I think that there's a risk when you kind of outweigh that and you, and you take that as kind of the guarantee of success. And it often isn't. And there's often a lot of people who have done incredibly well who have a different background and came up slightly differently. So I Think it's important not to,

[Holly Buckley]

not to outweigh that.

[Scott Becker]

Couldn't agree more. You talked about in a moment ago, high motor energy level. How do you sort of use that? How important is that to professional success? That people actually have the energy to do what needs to be done and connect with lots of clients, take care of lots of clients, build a practice. How important is energy level and high motor?

[David Pivnick]

I mean it's, it's probably.

[Holly Buckley]

I don't want to say it's the

[David Pivnick]

most important because if you've got someone with a really high motor who's relatively incompetent and they can do a lot of bad things, so. But I do think that it's critically, critically important. I think that the people with a high motor who also have the other pieces, the, the competence and the good judgment, they can achieve so much and they do achieve so much and they

[Holly Buckley]

get so much out of it.

[David Pivnick]

They're kind of reward is achievement. And so we see. You and I have both seen many

[Holly Buckley]

of our colleagues who have this amazing

[David Pivnick]

behind motor and the amount of ground they can cover and cover well and cover in a way when they're fully engaged with clients is just incredible. So I do think it is, it is one of the most important factors is kind of a high motor, high energy and ability to really just kind of keep going.

[Scott Becker]

No, I couldn't agree more. And it's obviously got to be mixed with great intelligence, great balance, great centeredness, but, but very hard to be very successful without a lot of energy in a high motor. I mean.

[Holly Buckley]

Correct, Absolutely.

[David Pivnick]

Maybe there's some formula of being so incredibly smart that each small thing you do moves the needle so much that having high energy doesn't matter. But I've yet to see that.

[Holly Buckley]

So I think, I think it's just

[Scott Becker]

so important when you talk about that somebody that's so smart that doesn't have to be that high of motor. Are you thinking about, I mean, David Pivnick? He has a good motor though, doesn't he?

[David Pivnick]

He does. He has a very good motor.

[Holly Buckley]

He, he works incredibly hard and is incredibly efficient.

[David Pivnick]

So I, I don't, I was not thinking about him.

[Scott Becker]

You know, I heard you say he works incredibly hard and incredibly efficient and it seemed that that did not point out there was nothing in there about intellect or high brights. So I take it the thought is. And David doesn't work in your department, so you don't have to evaluate him year and year out, but hard working a. Efficient a. I guess I'll take the failure to state anything about his intelligence as information in and of itself. Is that a fair statement?

[David Pivnick]

It's not. I mean, and I can say this because I don't believe he will listen

[Holly Buckley]

to my podcast, but the efficiency comment

[David Pivnick]

is really a reflection of his intelligence and judgment in that he can take

[Holly Buckley]

a very complicated issue and very, very

[David Pivnick]

quickly get to the answer in a very efficient way because he is that smart and has the best judgment in general. There is no litigator I prefer to work with.

[Holly Buckley]

So he is a very smart and talented person.

[Scott Becker]

He's very smart and talented. Not necessarily brilliant brilliant, but very, very smart and very talented. In all seriousness, Holly, what a pleasure to visit with you always. You've done an incredible job of growing the healthcare department and the private equity practice at McGuire Woods. You're literally one of a kind. Incredible mode, incredible personal skills, incredible intelligence. Really, really brilliant. Brilliant. David is bright too. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Becker Business and the Becker Private Equity Podcast. For for those that are listening, I hope that you take our comments and jest. Actually, David Pivnick and Holly Buckley are brilliant, brilliant lawyers and people. Thank you so much for joining us.

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