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Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast
Canada, Hockey & Healthcare Enforcement with David Pivnick 5-10-25
00:17:43
In this episode, David Pivnick, partner at McGuireWoods LLP, joins Scott Becker for a fast-paced discussion covering U.S.-Canada relations, NHL and NBA playoff insights, and the DOJ’s continued focus on healthcare enforcement.
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- [00:00]
Scott Becker
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Private Equity and Business podcast. I am thrilled today to be joined by David Pivnick. David's a partner and helps set up litigation at McGuire Woods. Does a ton of white collar litigation, particularly in the healthcare sector, but we talk about a broad range of subjects. David's one of the brightest people I've ever had a chance to work with and visit with, so I love getting a chance to visit with him. He's also a specialist on all things Canada as he holds dual citizenship between Canada and the United States. David, talk to us about the sort of Canada, US Relationship currently. I think the Canadian Prime Minister was just here. What's going on there? What are you watching? What's top of mind for you currently? I know you're dealing with some very high tech, high ticket litigation matters currently, but what are you thinking about what's going on with the U.S. canadian rice chip?
- [00:56]
David Pivnick
Yeah, I mean, look, the U.S. canadian relationship is at an interesting point in time, I think. You know, as a general statement, I would say I think the majority of Canadians have been displeased with the sort of 51st state rhetoric. I suspect, like many things, President Trump is saying that a little bit tongue in cheek and to get a rise, including, you know, with the references to Governor Trudeau. But I think it's an interesting dynamic because frankly, the tariff discussions and the sort of what I view as probably relatively light hearted jibes by President Trump ended up actually making a difference in the Canadian election where I think, you know, the Liberal Party had been widely disdained for a long time and everybody in Canada, and I use everybody loosely, but a substantial a proportion of Canadians were ready to move on from Justin Trudeau and the Liberals were in rough shape. And I think the country kind of galvanized and rallied together with Canadian pride to push back on the notion that it was just a territory of the United States. And I think it actually really helped Mark Carty coming in and taking over the Liberal leadership and then frankly winning the election and becoming Prime Minister. And I think, you know, the repercussions of that remain to be seen. I didn't find the meeting at the White House to be all that noteworthy. I know people have been getting their snippets on the comments about, you know, how important a trade partner is. But I certainly don't think President Trump is undercutting the importance of Canada as a trade partner so much as trying to make sure that no trade partners in the United States are taking advantage. I think there's room to disagree on how that's being handled, but I don't think it's intended to be creating friction with Canada. I think that, like other things, has been an indirect consequence. And I think the main thing is it did have an impact on the Canadian election.
- [02:57]
Scott Becker
Your point is so well taken is what President Trump thought of as sort of humorous and funny led to the galvanizing behind Carney as the new prime minister. When people thought Pierre, I forget his last name, was going to win, he was set to win. And then this got going and all of a sudden that had a backlash against being anywhere too close to the United States. Never Conservative Party winning Canada. And you had the Democrat or the Liberal Party winning Canada, and that's what you ended up with. And it's fascinating, isn't it? Right. They seem to have a relatively sedate meeting. Carney made some headlines by saying we're never going to be the 51st state. And obviously all of us, I think, know that that's, that that's not reality. Canada becoming the 51st state for a billion reasons, most of which the Canadians, that's not what they want. But, but fascinating, fascinating discussion. Well, let me take you to another subject that as a Canadian, you are brilliant on. Brilliant. Talk to us about the NHL playoffs. There's been some remarkable game sevens. And I know there's a lot of rodents to be lost in this, but this is one of the subjects that all Canadians know well, which is hockey. Talk to us about both the NHL draft, the Blackhawks, our beloved Blackhawks were the second worst team in the league, came in third in the draft lottery, and then also the NHL playoffs, because I just watched snippets of it when my Blackhawks aren't involved. But there's been some insane game sevens where teams have had these crazy comebacks. What should we think about this? What are you watching? What's top of mind for you?
- [04:32]
David Pivnick
Well, I mean, the first thing is you and everybody else should be watching more than just snippets. Playoff hockey is just the best. I'm very excited to talk about that, but it's really great. And you're absolutely right. This year there's been a ton of great comebacks, a ton of overtimes. Just really, really fun playoffs to watch. And it's been great watching it with my kids, particularly my sons, who keep lamenting how much they want to go see a Blackhawks playoff game and how fun it will be. And hopefully that will not be too far away into the future. But the playoffs have been great. I Think, you know, I believe we'll see how this plays out, but I believe the Leafs annual collapse starts in about give or take. Let me just look at the clock. But at about 5 hours 48 minutes I believe they will start walking their way out of the playoffs and the Panthers are going to crush them tonight and carry on. I think Florida has a good chance to win it. I am personally hoping that Connor McDavid gets his first Stanley cup out in Edmonton. I think he's a phenomenal player and a lot of fun to watch. And while the Oilers defense is mediocre and their goaltending is not even that good, I'm not sure that their offense and power play isn't good enough to potentially get it done this year. And I think the Dallas Stars, if they get healthy with Heiskin in and Robertson coming back, they could be a real contender as well. But I, I think it's been a very high paced lots of scoring in the playoffs this year, a little bit more open than than is typical and a lot of fun to watch. I thought the draft lottery, you know, I first of all I thought the actual process was kind of confusing. It's the first time they've gone to the live drawing and I think a lot of people were confused. I really wanted the Hawks to have a top two pick, mainly because I think Michael Misael is a center that really would have fit well. I am skeptical that he will fall to pick three, but I'm hopeful that he does and if not, I think the Hawks are going to end up going with either Porter Martone, who's a big power forward from Ontario, or Anton Frondell, a Swedish center. I think both of them fit different needs on the roster and would be very good additions and I'll be happy if Mesa falls or if we get one of those two. There are some rumblings of a couple other names the Hawks are rumored to like and would be sort of off the board picks and I'm hoping they avoid those. We've got lots of assets if they want to trade back up into the first round and pick someone else who would be a reach at three. But ultimately in pick three we should be getting a good player. And I think the bigger thing to watch is I expect the Blackhawks to be relatively meaningful players in free agency this summer and trying to snag a couple of strong wingers to really give Connor Bedard and Frank Nazer more talent to play with and start pushing towards the playoffs. Maybe not next year but the year after. So I think they, they could be in on guys like Mitch Marner if he hits the market, Nikola Ehlers out of Winnipeg and Sam Bennett. And frankly, we've got 30 million in cap space, so it's time to start spending it. We've got lots of picks the next few years. Let's start putting some talent on the ice and moving this thing forward.
- [07:41]
Scott Becker
And they thought they did that this offseason. What about the coaching situation? I know that they were going to interview coaches as an interim coach. Has that been decided or where are they at on that?
- [07:51]
David Pivnick
It is decidedly undecided. So Andrew Sorensen was the interim coach, and I respect what he's done, which is basically come out and say whether or not he's the head coach. He likes the organization and wants to be involved and is willing to stay on under someone else in the future, which I think is great. I think he is. I think he'd be well suited, frankly, as an assistant coach. I don't necessarily think he's the right guy for the head gig. I think the prime target that every Blackhawks fan that's sort of paying attention to this wanted was David Carle, who's the coach at the University of Denver. He's probably the most sought after head coach candidate in the world and has built an incredibly successful program and development pipeline in Denver, unfortunately. And I, you know, I get his decision making, but he ultimately interviewed for the Hawks job, the Anaheim Ducks job, and a couple others and made the cut that he was going to stay in college, and he signed an extension in Denver and with the University of Denver and said he wants to keep, you know, his family where they are and not move around and have stability. So I wish him nothing but the best with that. But I think, I think the Hawks had a lot of eggs in that particular basket, and we're very focused on him from a development standpoint. And now I think they're sort of back to the drawing board and looking at some other options. So I don't really know where it's going to go. It seems to be a slow process. And again, I suspect in part that's because they had David, Carl and maybe Mike Sullivan, the former Penguins coach, as sort of prime targets who ended up either not moving or going elsewhere. And now they're sort of recalibrating.
- [09:28]
Scott Becker
Got it. Okay, so we've heard enough about Canada because nobody cares that much. And we heard enough about hockey is nobody cares that much. Take us through. You know, either something on the, you know, take us through. Maybe what's going on in the NBA playoffs. I think many of us were so thrilled to see the Lakers get knocked out. The Timberwolves look tough. Anthony Edwards, who is prolific in many ways, just, just seems like a star. What's going on with the NBA playoffs? You watch this, of course, than I do. Understand it better than I do what's happening there.
- [09:59]
David Pivnick
Yeah, that was great because you finished that by saying, I'm watching them closer than you do right after you were talking up the Timberwolves. And Anthony Edwards, who got routed last night, and Edwards was absolutely dreadful, missed every shot he took in the first half and had no jump shot made in the whole game until about two minutes to go. Look, the first thing is I really dislike the Indiana Pacers other than Pasco Siakam, who I will always love as a former Raptor. But I think the Pacers look damn good. I mean they, they beat the Bucks and it wasn't just due to injuries. They, they absolutely earned that series win. They're beating the Cavaliers and heading back to Indiana to nothing. And at this point, I think the Pacers have a legitimate chance to come out of the East. But just like hockey, there's been a lot of good competitive games, lots of comebacks, 20 point comebacks, 12 point comeback seems to be the season for it. So I think the Thunder Nuggets is a very fun series. I thought the Thunder were going to absolutely crush them, but the Nuggets came back from double digits down in the fourth quarter the other day and they won. And I think the Timberwolves have a very real chance to come out of the west. But they lost yesterday to Golden State in game one. So they've given up home court advantage now. And they lost the game where Steph Curry missed basically three quarters of the game, leaving with an injury. So I think the warriors have a little something going with Jimmy Butler, you know, looking a little bit reinvigorated and Buddy Heald, which is, you know, a name from the past that has not really worked out as intended in the NBA, but was a heck of a college player. He kind of looks like college Buddy Heald right now and is really playing well. So right now I still think the Thunder will end up coming out of the west and it will end up being the Celtics or the Pacers out of the East. But the Pacers and Timberwolves are looking much more threatening than I think people anticipated coming in. And again, a lot of young stars playing good high level basketball. I think the NBA, you know, the ratings are not where they want them to be. But I think there's a lot of young and exciting talent in the league for people to watch if they want to pay attention to it.
- [12:07]
Scott Becker
Are the ratings not where they should be? Because people aren't interested because there's not big market teams in. Is it because there's all these cable issues where you can't even get some of the games? What's driving the ratings and the decline in ratings? There's been all this talk about is the NBA and the downswing, is it not? What's your sense of that?
- [12:26]
David Pivnick
Yes, I mean I think it's all of that. I think, I think the TV deals are a headache. I think when you have a series like Milwaukee versus Indiana that was blocked, blacked out heavily in the Indiana, in Indiana state market and in Wisconsin, you're not doing yourselves any favors. Having a lot of games on NBA tv, which I have, but lots of people don't, isn't great. But I also think it's a big problem where a lot of the teams that are really strong right now are not in the heaviest market. Although the Knicks and Celtics are playing each other and you know, that's an entertaining series that I think will have decent ratings, but a lot of the games are not. I think they've got major problems with how they schedule the games. There are so many games being played with eastern or Midwest based teams that have the late night start which I think makes things really difficult. I took my kids to a an 8:30 start Central Time game last week in Milwaukee and it's just a tough, tough time to take kids to games, let alone to have them watching on TV at home. So I don't think that's helped. And then the last thing is is the stars. I think people still like and are interested in Seth Curry, but LeBron's already been eliminated and Giannis has been eliminated. Doncic has been eliminated. So a lot of the bigger stars are not currently playing and some of the superstars that are still playing, you know, Shigel, just Alexander or Nikola Jokic are terrific players but don't necessarily draw the same number of eyeballs as LeBron did or Kobe once did or Michael.
- [14:00]
Scott Becker
Jordan certainly used to no 100% and LeBron brought is certainly a second tier talent compared to Michael Jordan. We agree 100%. Anything else that you're watching close to in the sports or business world currently, I know you're incredibly busy with litigation. We haven't talked about that nor probably will we today. We've talked about Canada the NBA, the NHL. Anything else that's top of mind for you currently? Let me do ask you this question. It seems like the Justice Department people thought the Justice Department under President Trump might be asleep at the switch, but they seem to be quite active. Any thoughts there?
- [14:39]
David Pivnick
They are quite active. It does not. I mean, I do think you're right. People, myself included, weren't sure how things would play out. And I think the DOJ has been actively pursuing cases and it, you know, a lot of the areas where it looks like, you know, resources have been reallocated, there's been a lot of focus and reallocating of those resources into healthcare enforcement, which, as you know and folks who have listened to us chat before that, that's very much where a lot of my efforts are focused on the defense side. So it made for interesting developments and a few interesting cases that I'm certainly following closely. But I think the DOJ will continue to be active notwithstanding a new administration taking over earlier this year. And if anything, it'll be something more of a reallocation of priorities. And one of the what looks to be continuing focal points will be health care fraud enforcement, which, you know, is something that, you know, I'll continue to work on and push back on on behalf of my clients where appropriate.
- [15:43]
Scott Becker
Thank you very, very much. Now in active DOJ Canada, U.S. relationships seem to be thawing a little bit, moving back in the right direction, thank God. One of great neighbors. We've talked deeply about hockey. You talked about a player I never heard of, Buddy Held, which must be somebody who's a serious player in the NBA. You know that the sga, the guy in the Oklahoma City Thunder. How do you pronounce his name? He's potentially the MVP this year, right? I mean, how do you pronounce that name?
- [16:13]
David Pivnick
He's not going to win mvp. I think Jokic is going to win it again. He's going to come in second, I'm pretty sure, and then Yanis third. But it's Shay Gilgis Alexander. I would think a doctor such as yourself, Dr. Becker, not newly minted, would have known that. But it's Shea Gilgis Alexander.
- [16:30]
Scott Becker
Well, as you are aware, David, I'm an honorary doctor, not a real doctorate. Really thankful to be honored. It was so, so nice of the medical school. Northeast Ohio University Medical University, magnificent. They've done an incredible job of building that program. But it's, it's, it doesn't mean that I have time to follow the NBA and the NHL in the, in Major League Baseball and pro football like you do. It's amazing you find the time for that given how much you should be working as well. But no, it is really something. In any event, no, in all seriousness, David Pivnick, one of the best of best lawyers, partners people I know and get a chance to work with, valedictorian from his law school class. He is what we essentially think of as bright, bright, bright. Really, really smart. Really, really smart. David, thank you so much for joining us as always on the Becker private equity and business podcast. We are huge fans of Canada, Mexico and all of our neighbors and thank you for, you know, being a part of the United States now. Thank you very, very much.
- [17:39]
David Pivnick
Thanks for having me.
- [17:44]
C
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