Creating a Culture of Honest Career Conversations with Amber Walsh of McGuireWoods LLP 4-25-25

Summary

Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast Summary

Episode: Creating a Culture of Honest Career Conversations with Amber Walsh of McGuireWoods LLP
Host: Scott Becker
Guest: Amber Walsh, Executive Committee Leader at McGuireWoods LLP
Release Date: April 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast, host Scott Becker engages in a profound discussion with Amber Walsh, a respected leader at McGuireWoods LLP. Amber brings a wealth of experience from the intersection of private equity and healthcare, emphasizing the critical role of leadership in fostering a robust company culture. The focal point of their conversation revolves around cultivating an environment where honest career conversations are not only encouraged but also integral to organizational success.

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Assessing Employee Commitment

Amber opens the dialogue by delving into the complexities of evaluating an employee’s commitment to their career and the organization. She highlights the challenge managers face in gauging the dedication of highly motivated and skilled professionals who may conceal their uncertainties about their long-term association with the firm.

“It's a topic that I find really interesting, but really, really challenging as a manager because it is something that is so hypercritical for the success of the organization.”
– Amber Walsh [00:38]

Amber underscores the difficulty in assessing commitment among talented individuals who might be contemplating their future within the firm but remain reticent to disclose their doubts. This concealment poses significant challenges for managers striving to ensure organizational stability and team cohesion.

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Age Group Dynamics and Commitment

Scott Becker adds depth to the conversation by examining how commitment varies across different age groups within the workforce. He differentiates between long-term employees, those who frequently change firms, and younger professionals who are still exploring their career paths.

“People probably in the earlier career stage, 25 to 35, ... they're still in that spot where they're trying to figure out themselves whether they want to make this their long term career or not.”
– Scott Becker [03:10]

Scott points out that younger professionals, typically between the ages of 25 to 35, are often in a transitional phase, seeking clarity about their long-term career goals. This uncertainty can impact their commitment to the firm, making open discussions about their aspirations and doubts crucial for both personal and organizational growth.

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Creating Open Conversations

The heart of the episode centers on strategies to foster an environment where employees feel safe to express their career uncertainties. Amber emphasizes the importance of managers proactively inviting these conversations and demonstrating their own vulnerability to encourage openness.

“It starts with raising the question as the manager, inviting the conversation, making it clear maybe when you as the manager leader yourself had doubts...”
– Amber Walsh [06:12]

Scott echoes this sentiment, highlighting the necessity of normalizing career discussions to create a healthier and more transparent workplace culture.

“The more that you normalize and accept those discussions, the much healthier probably the environment is and everybody is.”
– Scott Becker [09:52]

By fostering honest dialogues, managers can better understand their team's motivations and plan accordingly, ensuring that both the employees and the organization benefit from these transparent exchanges.

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Role of HR and Performance Metrics

Amber brings attention to the role of Human Resources (HR) professionals and headhunters in identifying declining commitment levels. She discusses various metrics and tools used to monitor employee engagement and performance over time.

“There are some interesting statistics that they will cite. I mean, they cite, you know, different surveys that are taken based on the employee net promoter score...”
– Amber Walsh [13:00]

Amber explains that tracking changes in an employee's performance metrics, such as response times and meeting deadlines, can provide valuable insights into their engagement and commitment levels. These data-driven approaches complement open conversations, offering a comprehensive view of an employee's dedication to the firm.

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Challenges in a Remote Environment

The discussion also touches upon the difficulties of maintaining close connections in a predominantly virtual work setting. Scott shares personal anecdotes illustrating how subtle cues, often missed in remote interactions, can lead to significant surprises when employees decide to leave.

“Back in the day we had in person team meetings all the time. It seems so much easier to stay really closely connected to everybody in today's world.”
– Scott Becker [15:31]

Amber concurs, emphasizing the heightened effort required by managers to stay connected with their teams remotely. She advocates for intentional strategies to bridge the communication gap and sustain strong manager-employee relationships despite the physical distances.

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Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, both Amber and Scott reiterate the importance of proactive and honest career conversations in building a resilient and committed workforce. Amber invites listeners to share their tips and experiences, fostering a community of continuous learning and improvement.

“I am always up for people that have tips on the best ways to figure out the commitment issue and to help our own colleagues kind of figure it out and know themselves.”
– Amber Walsh [17:01]

Scott commends Amber for her exemplary approach to maintaining team connections in a remote landscape, underscoring the enduring relevance of their strategies in today’s evolving work environment.

“What a fascinating discussion, Amber.”
– Scott Becker [16:19]

Overall, this episode provides valuable insights into the nuanced dynamics of employee commitment and the essential role of leadership in nurturing an open and supportive company culture.

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Notable Quotes:

• “It's a topic that I find really interesting, but really, really challenging as a manager because it is something that is so hypercritical for the success of the organization.”
  – Amber Walsh [00:38]

• “People probably in the earlier career stage, 25 to 35, ... they're still in that spot where they're trying to figure out themselves whether they want to make this their long term career or not.”
  – Scott Becker [03:10]

• “The more that you normalize and accept those discussions, the much healthier probably the environment is and everybody is.”
  – Scott Becker [09:52]

• “There are some interesting statistics that they will cite. I mean, they cite, you know, different surveys that are taken based on the employee net promoter score...”
  – Amber Walsh [13:00]

• “Back in the day we had in person team meetings all the time. It seems so much easier to stay really closely connected to everybody in today's world.”
  – Scott Becker [15:31]

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This comprehensive discussion between Scott Becker and Amber Walsh offers actionable strategies and profound insights for leaders aiming to enhance employee engagement and foster a culture of honesty within their organizations.

Transcript

[Scott Becker]

This is Scott Becker with Deep Becker Private equity and business podcast. We're thrilled today to be joined by one of our most listened to regular guest, Amber Walsh. Amber lives at the intersection of private equity and health care. But more than that, she's a true leader and thinks about leadership all the time. Talk today about a concept related to company culture. How you work with team members, how you sort of help them thrive in a lot more. Amber, let me tee it up and ask you to take charge and tell us what are your thoughts and what's on your mind.

[Amber Walsh]

Yeah. Thank you, Scott. I am very focused right now and I have been for a long time, but it is very fresh for me right now is this concept of assessing a colleague's commitment, commitment to their career, commitment to that particular company, or in our case, a law firm, and how you might create a culture that makes it okay to discuss questions, concerns around commitment long term that that particular colleague employee may have. It's a topic that I find really interesting, but really, really challenging as a manager because it is something that is so hypercritical for the success of the organization. There's so many different statistics, of course, around employee engagement and commitment and how that is a direct tie to the success of the organization. But I find it to be such a daunting concept because it can be so incredibly, incredibly difficult to assess commitment when in many cases you are talking about very, very highly motivated, highly skilled, intelligent people who either one may believe that they want to be, in our case, in the private practice of law at a law firm like McGuire woods, they may believe that or, or even if they have personal doubts, they may also feel like they cannot reveal those doubts and they're talented enough, frankly to not show that they have doubts about that commitment. And that's what I find so hard as a manager. And I really have been thinking about and reading and trying to talk to others in my position about how you go about assessing that commitment and maybe creating an environment or where it's okay to talk about these things, talk about the doubt, to then be able to respond to it, for managers to frankly be able to plan better, both for those colleagues, those employees, but also for their own team building.

[Scott Becker]

Yes, I think it's a fascinating, fascinating question. And what happens is there's so many different pieces of this. What's taken aside, people that have been lifers at the firm, at a firm into their 40s or 50s, they're likely not going anyplace without people knowing that they're going someplace and so forth. And that will come back to some of the younger age groups. And then there's people that have been at six different firms. And if you bet they're going to stay at your firm forever, it's probably a bad bet because they're always trying to figure out themselves in the right pasture and all those kinds of things. Then you get to the heart of this discussion. People probably in the, you know, earlier career stage, 25 to 35, let's say, and what 25 meaning that's the year at which people graduate from law school traditionally, if they went straight through, you know, just again, broad thoughts on age groups. But, but that group, you know, they're still in that spot where they're trying to figure out themselves whether they want to make this their long term career or not, what they want to do, you know, what their plans are. And many it when they're first out, 25 to 27, 28, 28 at least the experience for most of us is we're still not sure ourselves what we want to do for the long run, let alone committed to the firm and the team and so forth. But your point on this, the inability of those open discussions, even though it's very normal for somebody in that age group or a younger professional to not be sure what they want to do or they want to do it at this firm, what they want to do. But it's very hard to have those discussions. And I remember, remember one of our colleagues when he was 27 or so said to me, look, I know you're starting to invest a lot of time in me, but I'm likely to move back to Charlotte no matter what we do here because that's where our family is, that's where we want to be. And it took him a lot of guts to tell me that because he knew there was a chance. He sat me down to tell me because he wanted me to know in case I wanted to stop investing time in him and building around him. And I thought it was fascinating. It took a ton of integrity and guts for him to be that open with me that he wasn't staying here no matter what for the long run. It ended up working out really, really well. But I think most young college are very scared to tell their mentors or seniors that they're thinking about other things or what they're trying to figure out because they're scared it'll have negative repercussions, that they'll stop getting work, they'll stop getting the best assignments, they'll start having people invest in Them. How do you deal with some of those issues, Amber, that, that concern. That's exactly what we're talking about, is that you tell a mentor or a team leader and the team leader starts to sort of, not necessarily directly, but indirectly or not necessarily so intentionally stops viewing you as core to their team. So you sort of feel like you're out on a life raft there versus embraced because you've admitted to your boss or person you're working for that you might think about doing other things. How do you sort of deal with that and make it okay so you could do better career planning for both the person and the firm?

[Amber Walsh]

It's really challenging, but it starts with raising the question as the manager, inviting the conversation, making it clear maybe when you as the manager leader yourself had doubts and pointing out that there is still a place you are still a valued member of the team, even if you are having doubts. And then of course, just like any other particular challenge that you are working through as a manager, you have to have the conversation and then you have to do what you say you're going to do. So if you invite your colleagues to share with you these things, then of course you can't then create an environment where they are punished for talking to you about their doubt. You also have to protect the team and the firm. And it's a very, very delicate line, but I do think that it can be achieved. It's just one of those cultural things that has to be built on and continued to be cultivated, that we can talk about our commitments, our doubts, and when we have moments in our lives, particular things that are very natural, that may cause someone to doubt their long term commitment, that it's okay to talk about those things. Some of the saddest, most frustrating moments that I have had as a manager are the days when I realized that I got it very wrong. My assessment about someone's commitment and that has happened so many times, but it's happening less and less. The longer that I do this, the longer that I'm managing teams because I try to get out and talk about these things in advance and create this environment where you can be open and honest and where someone knows that even if you have a goal of staying in the practice of law for your entire life, but maybe you want to go in house eventually. In our world, a lot of people want to go in with health systems or private equity backed portfolio, whatever it is, to have a different experience, it's still really valuable to have those people on the team, to have us putting resources in that type of lawyer who openly admits it. But maybe I build a team a little bit differently, with a little bit of breadth to support that person. Do you have some redundancies, frankly, in institutional knowledge and in client relationships? You just plan better and then what can happen? The more you have these conversations, the more that you have the opportunity for that person and you as the manager leader, to share your own insights about their own career path. And you can just plan accordingly internally. But you have to have to be very honest and committed to continuing to support people who are brave enough, like our colleague who came to you and said that to you so many years ago. You have to be truthful and give that person the respect that they are due when they have given you that respect of honesty.

[Scott Becker]

No 100%. And it is such a challenging thing because there's this period of time, five to 10 years in even longer in where the law firm, the team's trying to figure out if you're the right fit for them, the team members trying to figure out is this the right fit for them and what they want to do for their career. And most people don't come out of the womb saying, my goal is, is I see myself climbing the firm and becoming an equity partner, doing this, doing that, rainmaker, manager, leader, whatever it might be. It's an evolution for people to get clear about what their goals are and what they want to do. And you have to be careful to live with people through that period of time while they're trying to figure out the level of their commitment. I mean, you and I can't think of hardly anybody who's become a leader in the firm where at some point they didn't have some growing pains in trying to figure out what exactly they wanted to do with their career and how they wanted it to go. I mean, I don't know if very many people that haven't had some of those growing pains, it's just normal as a human being to not be sure all the time. This is where I want to go. This is what I want to do. This is kind of work I want to do. It's just normal. And I think to your point, the more that you normalize and accept those discussions, the much healthier probably the environment is and everybody is.

[Amber Walsh]

Yeah, I agree. And at the same time, while I think it is so incredibly important to have these conversations and make sure that you have this open forum where it's not everyone sharing with everyone, but it's at least direct, mentor, supervisors, supervisee, whatever is the nomenclature in your organization, at least, you can have an open dialogue. While I think that it's so important and probably the most impactful, I am also very interested in what the HR professionals and the headhunter community says about ways to recognize when someone's commitment may be declining, their commitment to their career or to your particular organization. I also think that's fascinating. And there's probably some combination in there, the open conversations. But also there are some interesting statistics that they will cite. I mean, they cite, you know, different surveys that are taken based on the employee net promoter score. So the extent to which the particular employee says they are likely to recommend your organization as a place to work, there's a tracking of performance metrics over time for the individual, not just versus their colleagues, because that can be skewed because you'll have high performers who are always going to be at the top, but against themselves. And as they start to decline, you know, what does that say? Decline relative to themselves? You know, colleagues whose response times drop off, who are missing deadlines?

[Scott Becker]

Anything like that? No, absolutely. And to your point, one of things you've done an incredible job of, and it's harder in the virtual world that we're in, is staying so highly connected to our colleagues, you know, and staying so connected to them. And it's harder because in the old days, you saw and talked to people every single day, and it was a little bit easier to read body language, read cues, and talk to people about, you know, what's going on and so forth. You and I, I'm sure all everybody has a story like this. You know, one of our best partners, this must have been 10, 15 years ago now, came into my office and closed the door. And I said to the partner, and it's someone that you are very close to as well. I said to the partner, oh, my God, you're leaving. Cause that's the first time, I think, that this colleague who moved to Nashville to take a job in house had ever closed the door. So I figured, oh, my goodness. And of course, exactly what he was doing was giving notice that he's. That he's leaving. And what happens is, to your point, you know, in any professional environment, there's a whole number of people that you. That you sort of know aren't that committed or they're moderately committed. There are those that really are. Have been committed, are just great, great work ethic, great, great professionals. And it's particularly one of. One of those leaves that you don't expect that you're sort of surprised that you're sort of God, could we have done something different or not or what have you. And it is what it is. But I, but I, you know, you remember those things vividly. And as you talk about the people that you're surprised to take different paths, different choices. You know, I'm almost never surprised by the person who came to our firm from another firm who was at the last three firms for three to five years each when they leave, although there was one of them more recently was here for several, several years that left, I was surprised. The other one's not so much, but it is fascinating to try and assess where people at and to build that environment where they feel comfortable talking about it. You and I also remember one of the great, great colleagues we worked with. You know, we see a lot of this in the big law firms who had a very hard time setting boundaries for herself and basically chose to go in house just because she couldn't figure out how to set the boundaries internally or the firm wasn't good enough about supporting those boundaries. And you see a lot of that as well, feel that just like that. They're just great professionals, but they're naturally sort of alpha or a hard working people and can't help but put in the maximum amount of hours even though it's not necessary for success.

[Amber Walsh]

All very, very true. And one of the most difficult things to figure out, but the only way that you can deal with it is to try to have conversations, try to give people what they need, try to help assess their motivations and maybe use some of these tricks on the side that, you know, the HR professionals measure because that's sometimes illuminating too. But just having the conversations and doing the best we can and it's never going to be a perfect science, but it's certainly something that we think about and focus on a lot because in the end that that's what we are in the law firm. We are just people and teens with no hard assets and no other resources other than our talented individual.

[Scott Becker]

100%. No, I think that's, I think that's right on. And it just is the constant, you know, back in the day we had in person team meetings all the time. It seems so much easier to stay really closely connected to everybody in today's world. It is a real effort by managers to stay closely connected to their people in a different world, a different remote world, a different everything. And it's like, I'm amazed that people like you who do it so well, but it is more challenging. It seems like in some ways than it was and it's not. Not. There's no way around it. We got to do it even in a different environment, in a different world. But what a fascinating discussion, Amber. Anything else you wanted to add?

[Amber Walsh]

No, other than I am always up for people that have tips on the best ways to figure out the commitment issue and to help our own colleagues kind of figure it out and know themselves. I love to have this conversation for people who have dealt with it and have tips.

[Scott Becker]

No, just absolutely fantastic. Amber, thank you so much for joining us on the Becker Private Equity Podcast again. Amber Walsh, Executive committee leader at McGuire woods, one of our most listened to guests every single year. Thank you for joining us today.

[Amber Walsh]

Thank you, Scott.

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