Innovation, Health Equity, and the Future of Healthcare with Jason Taylor of Panda Health 4-28-25

Summary

Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast: Innovation, Health Equity, and the Future of Healthcare with Jason Taylor of Panda Health

Release Date: April 28, 2025

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Introduction

In the latest episode of the Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast, host Scott Becker welcomes Jason Taylor, a seasoned professional from Panda Health, to delve into the pressing issues and emerging trends in the healthcare sector. Jason brings a unique perspective, blending his extensive background in technology with a decade-long commitment to enhancing healthcare delivery in the United States.

Jason Taylor's Background

Jason begins by sharing his journey:

"I grew up in Toronto. I spent a long time, part of my career with IBM, always in the tech sector... about 13 years ago... I became fascinated with US Healthcare and all of the challenges and opportunities that sat within it to try and make a difference."
— Jason Taylor [00:30]

Transitioning from a tech-centric career in Canada and Europe to the dynamic landscape of US healthcare, Jason has focused on leveraging technology to improve patient engagement, optimize revenue workflows, and enhance the overall lives of both clinicians and patients.

Current Trends in Healthcare Technology

Policy Uncertainty Amid New Administration

Jason highlights the impact of the new administration's policy initiatives on healthcare providers:

"We've had some new policy initiatives that have been, I'll say, partially introduced. And I think that's creating a lot of tension in the system for healthcare providers."
— Jason Taylor [03:13]

This uncertainty, particularly around Medicaid changes and potential tariffs, has led to a cautious approach among healthcare systems when it comes to investing in new technologies. The fear of unpredictable policy shifts is causing hesitation, resulting in stalled investments that could otherwise drive innovation.

The AI Surge and Investment Paralysis

Two years into the AI boom, Jason observes:

"We've got this ubiquitous, everybody must do AI, demand for tech is rising... policy uncertainty things... causing a little bit of paralysis."
— Jason Taylor [03:13]

While the demand for AI-driven solutions in healthcare is surging, many systems are grappling with whether to commit resources amidst the prevailing uncertainties. This has not only slowed down investments but also put innovative health tech firms in a precarious position, potentially leading to a market bubble.

The Divide Between Large and Small Health Systems

Resource Constraints for Smaller Systems

Jason sheds light on the stark contrast between major health systems and their smaller counterparts:

"The bottom 90% of these health systems and large hospitals are fairly resource-strapped. They don't have big teams, they don't have big budgets."
— Jason Taylor [03:13]

Smaller health systems often lack the necessary resources to adopt and implement new technologies effectively. Unlike their larger counterparts, these institutions cannot afford the trial-and-error approach, making them hesitant to invest in potentially transformative solutions.

Impact on Health Equity

This divide exacerbates existing disparities in health equity:

"We could be kind of falling into this greater gap in health equity where the wealthy systems who are already serving a wealthy populace can move even faster and the underserved people become even less served."
— Jason Taylor [07:00]

As larger health systems continue to innovate and expand their capabilities, smaller, often underserved systems find it increasingly challenging to keep pace, widening the gap in quality and accessibility of care across different communities.

Innovations in Telehealth and Remote Care

Hybrid Telecare Models

One of the most promising advancements Jason discusses is the adoption of hybrid telecare models:

"There's been some work done, some research that says patients that are served in their own communities, surrounded by their families and support systems, tend to have better outcomes."
— Jason Taylor [11:36]

By integrating telehealth with on-the-ground care, systems like Providence in Seattle are successfully bringing specialized medical expertise to remote locations. This model not only improves patient outcomes but also reduces the need for costly and time-consuming patient transfers.

Challenges with Funding and Policy

However, the sustainability of these innovations hinges on consistent policy support:

"We've had inconsistent funding too, from a policy perspective... systems are waiting... until there's some guarantee of reimbursement on the back end."
— Jason Taylor [13:20]

The temporary extensions of telehealth coverage by CMS have provided a lifeline, but without permanent policy commitments, many healthcare providers remain hesitant to fully embrace these models.

Advice for Emerging Leaders in Healthcare

Drawing from his extensive experience, Jason offers invaluable advice to those aspiring to lead in the healthcare sector:

"Invest in relationships. Most of what happens in healthcare is done by really, really good people, really mission-driven... it's great to have a career path and I need to accomplish all these things and skill sets, but investing in the people is going to be the difference maker."
— Jason Taylor [14:44]

In an industry often dominated by technological advancements, Jason emphasizes the irreplaceable value of human connections and collaborative relationships. Building a strong network of like-minded professionals can drive meaningful change and foster long-term success.

Conclusion

The conversation between Scott Becker and Jason Taylor underscores the intricate interplay between technology, policy, and equity in the evolving landscape of US healthcare. As the sector navigates uncertainties and embraces innovations, the insights shared by Jason highlight the critical need for strategic investments, collaborative efforts, and a steadfast commitment to improving health outcomes for all communities.

Notable Quotes:

• "We've had inconsistent funding too, from a policy perspective."
  — Jason Taylor [13:20]

• "Invest in relationships... investing in the people is going to be the difference maker."
  — Jason Taylor [14:44]

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For more insights into the intersection of private equity and healthcare innovation, stay tuned to the Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast.

Transcript

[Scott Becker]

This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare and Becker Private Equity podcast. We are thrilled today to be joined by a long term professional, brilliant, good, good person in the healthcare sector, Jason Taylor. Jason, I know you're a constant follower of the healthcare sector. We're going to talk today about what trend you're watching, what you're focused on, what's exciting and advice to other people, other leaders. Take a moment and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background.

[Jason Taylor]

Thanks, Scott. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today. So I am Jason Taylor. I am originally a Canadian, which has some relevance into this as we talk about healthcare because I come from a place where healthcare is delivered phenomenally differently than it is here in the US I grew up in Toronto. I spent a long time, part of my career with IBM, always in the tech sector. And about 13 years ago in one of my global roles, I was actually living in Europe. I met a girl and because of the girl, I ended up moving to Los Angeles and going through a career change. We're married now, so that all worked out fine. But I got an opportunity to start reevaluating where I wanted to spend my time. And I became fascinated with US Healthcare and all of the challenges and opportunities that sat within it to try and make a difference, to try and make things a little bit better through the use of technology or workflow or various other things. So I've spent about the past decade primarily in the healthcare provider segment, working with health systems and hospitals on things ranging from patient engagement to revenue workflows to just generally how we can use tech to improve lives for both the clinicians delivering care and the patients that we all serve.

[Scott Becker]

Thank you. And take a moment now for people that know, don't, don't know. Jason, one of the all time good and competent people, really good person. Let me ask this question. One of my fellow friends, one of my best, best colleagues, a guy who will remain nameless named David Pivnick, is a Canadian and a very difficult individual. And I say that jokingly, he's actually funny as could be and as good a person as I come. Are all Canadians that nice or is it a wide mix of Canadians like it is of all people, we actually.

[Jason Taylor]

Work really, really hard as Canadians to try to maintain that facade that we are all very nice and we apologize a lot. But I think inside a lot of us have that more American core that we want the opportunity to get out and be aggressive and be a little less nice. But we don't get to Explo it at home. We, we end up apologizing more often than not.

[Scott Becker]

You know what they call that here in the States, and you've been in the States for a long time, they call that Midwest nice, where somebody could be very nice, but they might not be that nice deeply underneath or they might be. It's really a whole mix out there, actually. So talk about, as you've worked in the provider space, you worked in the technology space, talk a little bit about what trends you're watching in healthcare technology and healthcare providers, how challenging a situation is on the provider side, the technology side, what are some of the things you're watching?

[Jason Taylor]

So I think this year that's a more relevant discussion than anything Scott, we've had with the new administration coming in in Washington, we've had some new policy initiatives that have been, I'll say, partially introduced. And I think that's creating a lot of tension in the system for healthcare providers. So we, we could be fans of what the Trump administration is doing or we could be opposed to it. What matters right now is there's a lot of uncertainty, and this comes at a pivotal time in investment in tech for a lot of healthcare systems. So, as you know, because you spend a lot of time in this, there's roughly 400 health systems in the country. There's another 400 or so standalone hospitals that act independently. And then there's 1,200 kind of critical access safety net systems that are mostly rural but spread out across the country. So this is a fairly small community. But even within that community, we spend a lot of time talking about the big 30 or 40 systems, the Mayo Clinics, the Cleveland Clinics, Johns Hopkins, kind of big, big name firms that deliver health care. What we don't spend a lot of time on is that the bottom 90% of these health systems and large hospitals are fairly resource strapped. They don't have big teams, they don't have big budgets. And so when change happens, even if it's positive innovation change, they don't have a lot of opportunity to chase it. So what we're seeing this year is we're two years into this AI surge where, you know, now we've got this ubiquitous, everybody must do AI, demand for tech is rising. We've got these policy uncertainty things that are being introduced, like potential costs from tariffs, potential revenue problems from Medicaid changes that have been promised but not yet, you know, enacted. And you find a lot of systems who have uncertain investments, not enough time to look at it, not enough people to go kind of investigate what I should be doing. And, and it's causing a little bit of paralysis. So that's the healthcare provider side. What it's doing on the tech side is causing a ton of uncertainty for a lot of very innovative, very kind of mission driven or positive minded firms with these great innovations and they're facing a market that's kind of taking a pause, catching its breath, not really buying a lot very quickly and it's going to cause a little bit of a bubble. There's a lot of companies with VC investment or outside investment that have expectations and milestones and they're facing a pretty tough year. As you know, some of these firms have gone a little too fast. They've over invested in tech for two years now. They're sitting there with uncertainty in the market, they don't know what to do. So what we're tracking this year, what I'm spending a lot of time on, is how are these innovative smaller health tech firms going to navigate this uncertainty, Especially when the health systems themselves may not be in a position to, to be much user, to be, to be very advising in that context.

[Scott Becker]

No, but I think what you said here, which is, which is so right on a couple different points you made, one of which is there's this huge divide in Systems. There's those 30 to 50 systems that seemingly can afford to invest in anything. Every new tech thing that comes and doesn't mean they're not strategic and smart about it, but they've got the wherewithal to do so and make some mistakes and they're still okay. And then there's much smaller systems that both don't have the money to invest in some stuff and even have the money to invest in some stuff, don't often have the staff to help them make sure that it goes right. Talk a little bit about that. About where you see some of these smaller systems that just are sort of a little bit stuck because they can only invest so much technology and they can only do so much with, you know, both the technology in terms of the ability to invest plus the staff to actually make it all go and work. Are some of those systems sort of stuck or what do you see there?

[Jason Taylor]

I think they are stuck to some extent and they're relying on each other, which is great. There's an awesome community in healthcare. They're also relying on third parties, including people like myself, to come in and help them try and navigate. But you said it right, there's actually a group, those 30 or 40 systems, they're in a position where they are overtly saying we want to fail fast. The rest of them are in a position of saying we can't afford to fail at all. If we have one project failure, it actually could turn into a full year, year and a half impact on their IT budget because that money is gone or slow or not able to deploy. The biggest problem that they have is actually span. So if you look at, you know, I live in Los Angeles, one of my favorite close to my heart health systems is MLK Health Care, which is in Watts, which is a little south of where I live. And they serve a primarily Hispanic community. They've got a lot of people on Medicaid or Medi Cal as we call it out here. And it's an underserved community. They do fantastic work, but their IT staff is anemic compared with some of the larger systems and the breadth of understanding that it takes those leaders to be able to get their head around 100, 120 different topics that could come at them from a digital perspective or from a health tech perspective, it's just unfathomable. They can't go from one meeting to the next and be experts at everything. And so what ends up happening is a pure kind of maslow version. They will focus on the things that must be focused on. They'll focus on resiliency, business, recovery, cyber, and then maybe they have time for one other thing. And in times like this, it's going to be something related to rev cycle where they can prove to the CFO that there's a material ROI coming out the back end. They don't have the luxury of investing in some of the more softer return things like population health or patient access or patient experience type of solutions. And so it almost creates a bigger divide too where you get these underserved communities. The systems serving them don't have the ability to invest. And we could be kind of falling into this greater gap in health equity where the wealthy systems who are already serving a wealthy populace can move even faster and the underserved people become even less served, if that's possible.

[Scott Becker]

I mean, that's, I think, right on. You have this huge divide between the systems that can afford to do all these things, invest in doctors, technology, staff, everything they need. And often those are also systems that see the more moneyed people. And then you got systems that can't afford to do any of this stuff and that are doing the best they can just to provide the community needs that the community needs. And then you end up with a huge divide in Health equity, don't you?

[Jason Taylor]

Yeah. And there's even a further divide, which we probably don't like to talk about all that much, which is there is a safety net. So there's 1200 hospitals that are their critical access. They tend to be mostly rural and they tend to be bailed out. Right. So we as Americans, as our system, we're not going to let those 1200 hospitals fail because we have a lot of people in more remote or rural communities that need health care. And every time they run into trouble, there is money to go to go bail them out. The thing is, though, Scott, those systems serve a population that's about 81% white. They're not serving the people of color. They're not serving minorities, because that's not typically where minorities live. And it's the urban safety net. Hospitals that are going to be in kind of more trouble if this, if this trend continues. The Grady Healths in downtown Atlanta or MLK here in Los Angeles.

[Scott Becker]

No 100%. But you do also see, like, we also see rural health systems closing as well and leaving rural deserts as well. So I do think there's, there's real challenges in both. And even, you know, you got labor and delivery units closing all over rural America. And that just is a real challenge. And it is a chicken and the egg thing, because you don't have enough population, you can't support the health systems. If you don't have enough health systems, you can't support the population. It really is a very circular problem that's getting worse and worse, I think, in real urban areas, poor urban areas, as well as in rural areas, too. Talk about, Jason, for a second, what you're most focused on and excited about this year in the healthcare world or generally, what are you most focused on and excited about?

[Jason Taylor]

I think there's been a few advances or kind of investments made by some systems toward the point you just made, which is how do we change a little bit of how we approach care or the modality of care for some of those more remote communities? There's been some work done, some research that says patients that are served in their own communities, surrounded by their families and support systems, tend to have better outcomes. And so you've got a few people, a few systems that are investing in kind of hybrid remote visit or hybrid telecare type of models. And so the idea is there's one, one example that I can think of from Providence, for example, which is out of Seattle, but they serve a lot of rural, you know, Washington and surrounding states where they're using a hybrid of, of telehealth to bring specialty care to the point of care to enable a responding doctor to deal with something. The idea being if something goes wrong, the last thing we want to do is put you on an ambulance or a helicopter and move you to the big building. We want to do a better job of enabling people at point of care so that the responding physician has the support of that specialist that doesn't live there. But it is remote and it's kind of a three legged approach to the patient.

[Scott Becker]

No 100%. And there's more and more of that sort of the mayo telehealth like working with systems and the other big systems doing it too. And some of it works really well and some of it's just challenging, right? I mean, some of it works out really well where you could have care where they're at and that's obviously preferred if at all possible, right? I mean, just really where we like to be is you can get here where you're at and don't have to travel for it.

[Jason Taylor]

So far, one of the challenges we've seen, and it's inhibiting a little bit of the investment in it, is we've had inconsistent funding too, from a policy perspective. So the CMS engines just extended a little bit their coverage for telehealth that's not locked in. I mean, obviously that needs to become a more permanent part of the budget. And so there are some systems kind of waiting, keeping their powder dry, so to speak, around how far they want to go into this until there's some guarantee of reimbursement on the back end. But certainly the people who are leaning in have shown some pretty good results. And I think the more creative we can get using tech to bring care to where people are, that's pretty exciting because, you know, my personal belief is, you know, you can say what you want about entitlement or, or access to care. Who needs it? We need a healthy workforce. We need healthy people in all elements of our society and our economy because as we saw through Covid, when we don't have that, it's a problem for all of us, irrespective of how they got care or why they got covered. If somebody delivering your groceries is sick or driving your Uber is sick, you're very likely to get sick. We can't compete as a country even if we don't have a healthy population.

[Scott Becker]

Completely, completely true. And take a moment, Jason, and what advice you would give to emerging leaders? What advice do you give somebody as an emerging leader.

[Jason Taylor]

I would say having been down this path kind of as a, as a more mature entrant to the US market and the healthcare market, I would say invest in relationships. You know, most of what happens in healthcare is done by really, really good people, really mission driven, you know, people who want to do healthcare because they want to make a difference in the world. I think that the more you invest in the people you surround yourself with, the more you invest in the right relationships with good, similar minded people who are just trying to make a difference, you know, the more that comes and pays back and even pay it forward. If you see an opportunity to help somebody, take it because it will come back to you. It's not a very big community and those relationships are actually what ends up driving a lot of the collaboration between systems or systems and vendors, or vendors and vendors in terms of actually moving things forward and making a difference. So, you know, it's great to have a career path and I need to accomplish all these things and skill sets, but investing in the people is going to be the difference maker or the secret sauce for, for those that actually want to be long term successful in healthcare.

[Scott Becker]

I think that is such a great point, particularly in a technology obsessed world. The actual ability to communicate and talk to people is so, so important. And I think that comment just resonates so well with us Again, we're visiting today with Jason Taylor, just an outstanding leader and individual. Jason, thank you so much for joining us on this special combined episode of the Becker's Healthcare and Becker Private Equity podcast. Thank you very, very much, Scott.

[Jason Taylor]

Thank you so much for having me and I look forward to seeing you next week at the annual meeting.