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Becker Private Equity & Business Podcast
Top Storylines Shaping the Sports Landscape with David Pivnick of McGuireWoods LLP 3-21-26
00:22:39
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- [00:00]
A
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Private Equity in the Becker Business podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by David Pivnick. David is one of the most brilliant professionals and lawyers that I know. He's a partner at McGuire Woods. It helps head up sort of white collar and health care litigation. Brilliant, brilliant lawyer and partner valedictorian of his law school class. We talked to David about a wide variety of subjects and he covers subjects really well once in a while. We talked to David Pivnick at Sports with David Pivnick. And that's today's episode. David, let me tee up. What are the top sports stories that you're watching currently? What's of interest to you?
- [00:39]
B
Scott, appreciate you having me on and always pleasure to chat. Something more casual like sports. Few things that are interesting to me. One, you know, the home stretch in the NBA season and figuring out what's going to happen with some of the awards because of the NBA's rule that you have to play 65 games to qualify, which could remove some of the best players from it. So it'll be interesting both for playoff seating and seeing how the tanking teams are doing, but also how the awards are going to shake out with the games played, you know, paying attention, as I think many did to the World Baseball Classic, which I think was fun. Unfortunately, the US didn't pull out the win yesterday, but good game, good tournament, well fought. Some very interesting teams and dynamics there. And then sort of enjoying the NFL off season where my Cowboys have been less active than I would have preferred. And I, I think the Bears have actually had some very good moves. So lots to talk about. You could deal with choice.
- [01:33]
A
Yeah, no, let's start with the NBA. You know, there's. I could never pronounce the name correctly, but sga, is he the front runner of the MVP and who's not going to qualify based on not playing enough games? Who are the top front runners in the NBA and why can't the Chicago Bulls even tank effectively? Can you answer those two questions?
- [01:52]
B
Yeah, well, so I think, I think SGA shake elders. Alexander probably is the front runner. You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't commend him. He recently broke, as you may have seen, the record for most consecutive 20 point games. It was a record that dated back to literally Wilt Chamberlain. So, you know, old, old record that, that shade just broke. Something my father has been actively tracking for several months now and very excited about. I, I think more than anyone else, including Shay, but I think That's a great record. And between the fact that he'll hit the threshold, he's having another remarkable season and his team is really elite, you know, clearly the best team in the league. I think Shane Gilchrist Alexander has a great chance to win it. In terms of folks who aren't going to get there, you know, there's folks of sort of all different segments where some folks aren't even close and are missing way too many games that are not even in the discussion. But others like Victor Webinar are on the cusp. And Wemby's an interesting one because, you know, he's got three more games that he can afford to miss in the last 15, so I hope for his sake he stays healthy. But any real injury the rest of the way would knock him out of the running. And, and he both has some, some standing in the MVP race, but he's also a prohibitive favorite for defensive player of the year. And my household's favorite athlete, Scotty Barnes, I think would be in the mix if Wemby doesn't hit that threshold. So Wemby's I think the most notable exception. But others, you know, like Yacht, is not going to get there. Jokic not going to be there at the 65 game mark this year. Luka Doncic is going to be sort of on that cusp. So there's a whole bunch of very good players, very, you know, elite players who are not quite going to get there or are going to be sort of sweating it down to the last few games of the year. And it also, in the case of someone like Victor Wembanyama, creates an interesting dynamic where oftentimes I feel like teams would rest their stars a little bit down the stretch. Not every game, but give them an extra day or two off up just to sort of facilitate a playoff push and making sure they're fresh. And the spurs don't have that luxury with Wemby because I don't think he would take kindly to being removed from award candidacy to get some extra rest. But at the same time, if something does happen in those last few games that implant impacts their playoff run, it's going to be a very unfortunate unintended consequence of this rule change that forces guys to be playing where they otherwise might rest a bit. And as a fan, I think it's great, frankly, that players, when healthy are playing. I think that's the concept. We pay tickets to watch these guys play. So it's frustrating when they go, but it would be unfortunate if that's One of the consequences. And then as to the Bulls, I mean, look, first of all, I'm going to see the Raptors play tonight in Chicago. So I hope the Bulls do their job tanking tonight and get their butts kicked, as I think they will. But I, you know, the short answer is they really haven't done a full and comprehensive rebuild, and when they've tried, it's often been fits and start. So I think the Bulls have had two problems. One of them is they simply haven't been able to land marquee free agents, basically ever. I mean, certainly dating back to the Jordan era. And even then they were trying to bring in complimentary pieces more than stars. But, you know, looking at what the Bulls have done over the last 30 years, you know, their big free agent signings are guys like Carlos Boozer, for example, in 2010, and they got him only after they struck out on LeBron James and Chris Bosh. He was a distant third or fourth or fifth choice that year. They didn't get Tracy McGrady, you know, in the, just after the Jordan era, they didn't get a Graham Taylor, Tim Duncan. So the Bulls not being able to land free agents, even though it's a really terrific city, obviously I love Chicago, and I think it's a moderately run organization, but with a pretty great fan base, it's surprising they can't land free agents. But that's one hindrance. And then the other piece is if you're not going to land marquee free agents, you really have to build through the draft. And so stockpiling a lot of picks and giving it a long, you know, slow rebuild to support it, and then nailing top three picks, you know, both getting them, but also hitting them out of the park is critical. And the Bulls really had Derrick Rose as the one player who fit that mold. And unfortunately, after his injury, you know, he was still great, but he wasn't on the same MVP level that he was. And they didn't have a quarter serratum. So they just, I think this is the. This year looks like a sign that they're taking it seriously. They're going to truly sort of tear it down to the studs. There's not a lot left. They've got Gideon, bruise, Ellis and then a bunch of flyers like Rob Dillingham that could develop. And, you know, they're going to have to continue this, I think, for two or three years where it's ugly before it gets better if they want to try and sustain excellence. Right.
- [07:03]
A
But it seems like they're, they're stuck right at that not middle tier, right at the lower middle tier, upper worst tier. And so right, you don't have a chance at a top five draft pick really. It becomes very hard to get a chance at like a sure superstar. And so they're really stuck in the middle. And even here when they went on an 11 game loss streak, not purposely to try and lose more, now they've started to win a few games again, they're back to 28 and 40 or something like that. And it's hard to get the right draft pick. And then if you can't get the right draft pick, you can't bring in the right talent, you got trouble. I was reading yesterday how this Bulls team, I mean the Bulls, for people that aren't really close, basketball sports fans, the Bulls got rid of their five or seven best players right at the tread date trade deadline, leaving two of the five or seven or 10 best players, Basilis and Josh Giddy, with the intent of. They've been stuck in the middle for years now. In the middle you kind of lose in some of these sports you can't get great draft picks. And so they were apparently trying to build down as you said, to the studs, like you'd build a house out of the studs and. But now can't even lose effectively to get a low draft pick. And there's sports writers are saying there's more talent on this team, it's a very fast team. So it's a harder team to play game than play against that it should be. And so all of a sudden they're winning some games and taking themselves out of eligibility for a really good draft pick. They've got nine second rounders and traditionally second rounders in the NBA don't do anything. So they're sort of in a, in a real bind. I think they're really stuck for a little bit.
- [08:32]
B
I think that's right. And you hopefully if they're smart about it, it's not just the losing games. It'll be in the off season leveraging some of those secondary picks and some of their financial flexibility to potentially take on a bad contract or two and add additional first round picks when doing it. But they're going to have to be creative and they're going to have to stick with it long term in order to, you know, really rebuild because I think, you know, get guys like Bruisellis Giddy. I still believe in Rob Dillingham, although I think that's probably a minority position. But I, I Still think he's got great potential. But those aren't going to be the number one or two superstars on a championship team. Those are going to be guys who fit in after you get your true superstar. So they're going to have to figure out how to land that guy at some point if they really want to be great. Right?
- [09:23]
A
You absolutely got to have a few, just absolute great ones, don't you? I mean, you can't win in the NBA without two or three just fantastic players. And then you could fill in with other good players, very solid players. It's hard to do without a couple great players. Talk about the World Baseball Classic. I mean, you would think President Trump had so much success taking out the Nelson Maduro. I don't know exactly what his position was. Prime minister, president of Venezuela. You know, they sort of trash talked each other and President Trump won that. How does that happen? And then we go and lose to Venezuela in baseball in the World Baseball Classic. How do you juxtapose these two situations? We succeed at regime change, at taking out Maduro, but we can't win in baseball against Venezuela. Is that a sign of how far the United States has fallen? Or should we not read that much into it? Or can President Trump still change this?
- [10:20]
B
You know, this is an interesting question that sort of came, you know, to stick with baseball. He came out of left field. I thought we were going to actually talk baseball and here we are talking international politics. But I'm hoping you're sitting down because what I'm going to say is going to shock you to your core. But as it turns out, regime change and anything to do with Maduro actually doesn't have anything to do with what took place on the baseball field. Unrelated concepts, no cause and effect, no correlation. So there's actually no sign to come. I don't think President Trump can change the result, although he could simply declare the US the victor. But I don't believe that would be widely accepted and I do think it was an interesting result. This is back to back World Baseball Classic. The US has come in second. I think the US Overall, you know, is a baseball powerhouse. But I think there are a couple things that work heavily against them here. One of them is, you know, a lot of the best players for the U.S. most notably pitchers, you know, work on the mound and weren't available in last night's game or in some of the other big games. Like Tariq Skubal, who I would argue is probably the best pitcher on the planet right now. You know, should be starting that game for the US but because of his commitment to the Detroit Tigers, he was in the dugout and supporting the team, which, which is great, but he wasn't actually pitching, which is a problem. So I think part of it is just a matter of who is available and who is present on the roster. Some of it is just in a one game baseball championship game. I think any team could beat any other team or, you know, at least if they're within the range of competitors, I think that could happen.
- [12:09]
A
And so the reality is Detroit's not more important than the United States, is it? But, but in reality, Venezuela has got a magnificent baseball talent situation, don't they? I mean, in all kidding aside, they've got a fantastic baseball situation.
- [12:25]
B
They do. And they also have some of the best players in the world. And one of the big advantages, frankly, a lot of the other countries playing in the World Baseball Classic have, and that includes very much Venezuela and the Dominican Republic in particular. But I think Japan to a lesser extent is also in this ballpark is the United States, I think is not as focused on churning out baseball talent as some of the other countries. Like the proportion of youth playing baseball, at least my impression is it's still significant, but it's not as high as, for example, the number of kids playing basketball. Some of that is just ease of access to basketball. There's hoops everywhere. You just need a ball to play. But I think some of it is a focus on developing talent at a young age that I think is less pronounced in the United States than in some of the other countries. But a lot of it, again just does boil down to, it's a small sample size. I think if the US had its best players available and we played 100 game season against Venezuela or against any other team, you know, I think the US would fare very well consistently. But you know, that's not how it works. And much like the Olympic gold medal hockey game, you know, it's, it's hard to really, you know, it's hard to determine too much based on one game between two teams who are relatively evenly matched. Even if I think the US was a little better than Venezuela, you know, all things being equal, you brought into
- [13:57]
A
the conversation something that I felt was inappropriate for the discussion. You implied that the United States hockey team, I felt like you implied that that was a fluke, that they beat Canada in hockey in the championship in the Olympics. It seemed almost you were pointing down a direction there when obviously the USA is so talented. Now, I say that jokingly but talk about that because at a one game sit very much. The U.S. beat Canada Olympics. The U.S. canadian team was just stacked and really controlled a lot of that game. Talk about that for one moment. I know you are Canadian by birth. You're a Canadian American. You're just a great leader and citizen now of the United States. Congratulations. But talk for a second about that whole thing.
- [14:47]
B
Yeah. So I mean, I'm glad you clarified again. I'm American, right? American is apple pie. I like to tell people. But putting that aside, look, at the end of the day, I think you read the inference right. But I want to start by saying the US Won the gold and the US Deserve to win the gold because they played the tournament, they won the game. It doesn't matter if you had the hottest goalie and the other team out shot you or played you that day. Hot goalies win Stanley Cups all the time. And no one would say you guys aren't the real champion because your goalie stole the series. And the fact that the 3 on 3 overtime is a ridiculous way to handle, you know, overtime doesn't matter. Those were the rules. Everybody knew the rules. Canada won in the quarterfinals playing a three out three overtime. And I didn't hear a lot of my Canadian friends complaining how ridiculous it was. So at the end of the day, the US Played great all tournament. They played a great defensive tournament throughout. Their defense score is excellent. Connor Hellebuck is the best goalie in the world and they won and they deserve to win. You can't take that away. With that said, if Canada and the US played 10 times, do I think Canada would win more than half of those games? Yeah, I think that's probably right and I think most objective observers would probably concede as much. But I that wasn't the tournament, that wasn't the stakes. And so I do think it sounds a little bit like sour graves to know if we did something else then we would have won because we did the actual thing and the US Won. And so I think the US Deserves the gold medal and I think they played great and it's a great team. I also think you and I spend in our, some of our more serious podcasts a lot of time talking about, you know, team building. And I think one of the big stories of the Olympics is roster construction. I think the Canadians did an absolutely his poor job building their roster. And I think some of the, in my view, obvious, you know, criticisms of the roster and mine I was very vocal about with, with friends and colleagues for a long time Is like, it is absurd that Connor Bedard wasn't on the Canadian Olympic team. Like, he is clearly one of the six best Canadian, most talented Canadians in the world. And the downsides that he has in terms of not being as physical as some others are, not being as strong defensively, which are things he's actively working on. But those wouldn't have been as big an issue in the Olympics. And you could have easily balanced that out by playing him on a line with a guy like Mitch Marner, who's great defensively, and they would have been electric together. And when you watch that tournament, and Bedard's the most notable example, but there are several other very questionable omissions. I think Matt Schaefer should have been on the blue line as well. I think it's one of the key takeaways is at the end of the day, in both the semifinal game and the gold medal game, the Canadians were double and triple shifting the first line of David McKinnon and Macklin celebrity. And those three guys are all unbelievably talented players. They deserve to be on the team. They deserve those extra minutes. They're three of the best in the world. But when you have to ride guys like that and instead of rolling three or four lines pretty evenly, you're running a second line, one line, over and over again. They were tired and it caused some of the misses at the end. And we had to do it because Canada didn't have the talent. They had to do that because they lacked that talent. And so I think the roster construction was also critical.
- [18:28]
A
Yes. No. 100% and fascinating. Is there dissension in the Pivnic households between the parents who are the proudest and greatest Canadians of all time, the kids who have been raised here? Is there any dissension when people watch the USA Canada game? Where do the loyalties lie? Is there excitement on both sides of the table? How does this look?
- [18:51]
B
So in my household, I think it's split. And the reality is, like, I was happy to watch an entertaining game, and I was not that aggrieved with the result. I am an American and I enjoyed it. I think my sister's household was decidedly split. And my sister was definitely very disappointed. And her husband and kids were very excited. And my parents were unequivocally dismayed at the outcome. So I think. I think a mixed bag, depending on which Pivnics you're talking about, you know,
- [19:22]
A
and that's what we wanted to dig into a little bit. So we've had a chance to talk about the World Baseball Classic where the US Beat Venezuela or US Lost to Venezuela. They beat him and they beat them in regime change. Lost in baseball. We had a chance to talk about basketball, which I, I'm a Chicago Bulls fan. I could almost care less about the NBA other than watching some of these superstars play, other than how the Chicago Bulls do. And they've been stuck in sort of purgatory for years now and continue to be stuck in purgatory. They can't even lose effectively. And there was one other topic you wanted to touch on. Can we touch on that very quickly, if that's okay?
- [19:57]
B
Yeah, that, that would be the NFL and the, how things have proceeded in the off season. And I, you know, I personally am a little underwhelmed. I think the Cowboys have made some good incremental moves. But, you know, I hear Jerry Jones talk about how he's in his 80s and now's the time to compete and they're going to be really putting all their chips in because he wants to win another super bowl before he dies. And then I see what is a fairly underwhelming off season so far. And I don't really know what to think when I look at that. And then I, I look at the Bears, and I think the Bears have actually had a very competent, I mean, I, I think the linebacker they added, Devin Bush, is one of the best free agent acquisitions anyone has made. And I think they've made some, you know, they got some bad luck with Drew Dolman retiring early and unexpectedly at 27, but I think they've done a nice job pivoting. And, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't give me any joy to say it, but I think the Bears have a nice future and are setting themselves up well.
- [21:03]
A
Totally. Totally. Let's hope so, Netty. But David, fantastic to visit with you on Sports today. David Pivnick, one of the smartest mars people I know he is. He is not quite as smart as his children, his wife and his parents, but really smart. And David, thank you for taking the time to visit with us today. To your parents. I'm just joking. David is actually extremely gifted. Gifted. Very. Thank you so much for joining us today on the Becker Private Equity and the Becker Business Podcast. Always fantastic. Thank you.
- [21:33]
B
Thanks for having me, Scott. Take care.
- [21:38]
C
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