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- [00:00]
Daniel Kurd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:06]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Karis Hilton. Shakira, Luke and Yerim have surprises, many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group chat comes to life. What up? You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's lemonade. This is Suite 305. Here, oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:34]
Kerry Brownstein
Hey, Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.
- [00:38]
Fred Armisen
The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.
- [00:41]
Kerry Brownstein
We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.
- [00:52]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [01:04]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song about.
- [01:10]
James Stout
Well, I thought you were all going
- [01:11]
Mia Wong
to write a song.
- [01:11]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:22]
Ari Chambers
What's up, fam? It's sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [01:24]
Sam J
Hey, what's up, y'?
- [01:25]
Mia Wong
All?
- [01:25]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [01:26]
Ari Chambers
And we're the hosts of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from 2gether.
- [01:31]
Sam J
We're breaking down the biggest headlines, the viral moments and the stories everyone's talking about across women's sports.
- [01:37]
Ari Chambers
From game changing performances to culture shifting conversations. We'll give you our takes, our debates and a few laughs along the way
- [01:42]
Sam J
because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to Everyone watches women's sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:52]
Lele Pons
This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here
- [01:58]
Garrison Davis
to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem. Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was?
- [02:04]
Sam J
If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of
- [02:07]
Garrison Davis
men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much.
- [02:11]
Sam J
I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with Yamaneka
- [02:15]
Garrison Davis
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:23]
Daniel Kurd
Call Zone Media.
- [02:25]
Mia Wong
Hey, everybody.
- [02:26]
Garrison Davis
Robert Evans here.
- [02:27]
Mia Wong
And I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes
- [02:42]
James Stout
every day this week, there's going to
- [02:43]
Mia Wong
be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.
- [02:50]
Garrison Davis
Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a show that is sometimes about surveillance, digital privacy, and all the ways that little black rectangle you keep in your pocket could be used against you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I am joined by Cooper Quinton, a security researcher and senior public interest technologist at the EFF, or the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Cooper, hello.
- [03:14]
Cooper Quinton
Hey, Garrison. Happy to be here again.
- [03:16]
Garrison Davis
Yes, Always happy to have you on. And you will be especially useful today because we are going to be talking about geo fencing, because last week the Supreme Court ruled that geofencing qualifies as a search under the Fourth Amendment. Now, before we get into what that means and why it's important, all very normal terms. Before we do that, let's start to define some of our terms here. Starting off with, what is geo fencing?
- [03:45]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah. So geofence warrants, which are what this case is about, are warrants to a tech company, usually Google, that say, give us all of the identity account IDs that had phones in this set of geographic coordinates at this time period. So they send that to Google. Google sends back a list of all of the accounts they know, usually anonymized at first, but that were in that, you know, geographic square from, you know, time A to time B, which is actually not something that Google does anymore. They've recently taken steps to no longer technically be able to respond to these forms, which is a rare dumb W for Google. But that is a geofence warrant. That's what's at the heart of that.
- [04:35]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, I mean, and the goal is essentially to identify what phones and by extension, which people were present around the time a crime was committed, to narrow down a suspect from a very large pool of just random people in an area.
- [04:52]
Cooper Quinton
Yes, exactly, exactly. So there's a couple ways you can think about this, right? If there was a protest and you want us to know the identities of all the protesters, you could get a geofence warrant for the area of that protest, for the time of the protest. Or if there was a bank robbery, which happens here. Right. You get a geofence warrant for two locations. You think the bank robber might have been in and then you are able to narrow it down from, you know, which identities show up in both places. Right. And those, that's your list of primary suspects.
- [05:25]
Garrison Davis
So the reason why we're talking about this today is because on Monday, June 29, in a 6, 3 ruling, the Supreme Court found that police getting access to location data through a geofence does constitute a quote, unquote search under the fourth Amendment. And this, this finding could have really big impacts on digital privacy rights. The fact that geofencing is a fourth Amendment search means that the practice of geofencing is subject to fourth Amendment restrictions and protections. Now, there's also been some people I think maybe exaggerating certain aspects of this ruling because the court did not rule that geofence warrants are themselves unreasonable. Just like in general.
- [06:05]
Cooper Quinton
That's right.
- [06:06]
Garrison Davis
That that question is still, is still going to be determined by, by the 4th Circuit. But what the court did find here also should not be minimized. It also is pretty significant to quote from the majority, quote, an individual has a reasonable expectation of privacy in records about his cell phone's location and police intrude on that constitutionally protected interest when they demand the information, even though for only a limited time and from a third party tech company, unquote. Well, we'll get into some of what that's referencing in terms of like third party tech companies later. As you mentioned, this, this case does revolve around a bank robbery. And I want to get into some of the context of this because it also will help understand sort of the ongoing case regarding the specific geofence warrant that was used. So in 2019, someone made off with almost $200,000 from a credit union and the suspect was seen on their phone prior to the robbery. So police asked Google to hand over the location data for all cell phones or their devices in a 150 meter radius around the bank. Within an hour of that robbery, 19 anonymous users were first identified. Police then narrowed that down to nine users who they got more information from from Google. They tracked their location for a longer period of time before police then requested personally identifying information on three users, which they then used to arrest the suspect. So the suspect eventually pleaded guilty, but it was like a conditional plea because they were still challenging the the evidence that was obtained through the geofence warrant, citing a fourth amendment violation.
- [07:44]
Tabby
That's right.
- [07:45]
Garrison Davis
Arguing that the warrant authorizing the location data search was invalid. And this claim made its way through the district court to the appeals court to the Supreme Court. And we'll, we'll get into that in a bit. You already laid out some of the details of the specific like geofence warrant that was used. It has this three step process. First this big pool, then a smaller pool, and then personal identifying information on the smallest pool. One thing that is very interesting to me is that the process for setting up this warrant was set up with the help of Google. They like worked together to make this process back when this was still like an emerging investigative avenue, like five, six, seven years ago.
- [08:32]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, that's right.
- [08:33]
Garrison Davis
And also as you've mentioned, Google's location history feature operates differently now. The information that is being collected is stored on the user's phone.
- [08:44]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah.
- [08:45]
Garrison Davis
They don't have the same type of access that they had back in 2019 in which this case emerges.
- [08:51]
Tabby
That's right.
- [08:52]
Cooper Quinton
They are no longer able to respond to geofence warrants, which is great. This does not mean they can't respond to other types of warrants. And this doesn't mean that other companies won't respond to geofence warrants.
- [09:01]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, I guess. Do you want to discuss a few of the different ways in which location data is collected?
- [09:07]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, certainly. So there's, there's a couple of ways let's I guess sandbox this entirely just to cell phone location because we don't want to go off on a tangent about license plate readers or other location tracking mechanisms. But one of the big ways that people have been, that's kind of been on people's minds lately is advertising location data. So this is like the product WeBlock, which is owned by this company PanLink, which I recently bought a contract with, and several other law enforcement agencies by contract with the Citizen Lab, just put out a pretty great report about them. But the way that they get their data is through a combination of advertising APIs from applications, basically. So when an application on their phone wants to show an ad, first it sends a request to what's called a real time bidding database. And it sends a request with a unique ID for your phone called a mobile ad ID or maid, and some information about you which can include your location. And then companies, any random company, you or I could set up a company to sit at these real time bidding centers and just kind of gather all this data and never make any bids or that data never spend any money, just gather all that data pairing People's mobile advertising IDs with their location information. And this is exactly what WeBlock does. So what they do is they sell this information to police. Police can then buy access to this information and this is another thing that gets confused with geofencing a lot. But it's a different type of geofencing. They can sort of draw a circle around a specific area and WeBlock will show them all of the information they have about phones that have been in that area recently or during a specific time period. And that's not a geofenced warrant. That is a geofenced search of a database, which is essentially the same thing Google is doing on the back end. But there's no warrant involved in this case. But that's a very common method of tracking. The other way that they get data is just through code that they embed in certain ad libraries that will get them that data sort of the same way, but without going through the real time bidding process. But it's still data being given to them basically by ad libraries that they pay a bit of money for to the ad company or whatever.
- [11:39]
Garrison Davis
In a little bit, we'll discuss some of the implications of the Supreme Court's findings specifically on like the third party doctrine. But do you think that there's a possibility that the ruling in this case might be able to be used to put up challenges towards something like advertising location collection?
- [11:59]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, again, I'm not a lawyer, legal strategy is quite outside my general domain of expertise. But it certainly seems to me like there should be an opening here, the big loophole that, that law enforcement has been exploiting locally. We call it the data broker loophole. Right?
- [12:20]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [12:21]
Cooper Quinton
Has been a problem for a while. There was a bill called the Fourth Amendment Is not for Sale Act. It passed the House and then died in the Senate. Unfortunately, it was proposed by Senator ron Wyden in 2021. That was an attempt to close this loophole. But given the wording of the, of the opinion here, you know, specifically around people's location data, you know, very, very much private data. You know, I think that there's a reasonable argument to bring a case to the Supreme Court about the sale specifically of cellular location data.
- [12:58]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [12:58]
Cooper Quinton
Because they did rule that the third party doctrine, which we can get into, does not apply to cellular location data. So that's, I mean, I think that's a pretty big point in favor of shutting down the loophole for location data. It would not shut down the loophole for other data.
- [13:14]
Garrison Davis
But yeah, it is frustrating how we have to kind of take this one step at a time. And that's, that is a sort of frustration that actually the Supreme Court voiced.
- [13:24]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, reformism is rough, man.
- [13:26]
Garrison Davis
This like case by case, app by app approach does not actually make very much sense. Before we get into that, let's go back to the bank robbers initial, initial challenge based on the fourth Amendment. So a district court did agree that the search violated the fourth Amendment, but it did not actually block the data from being permitted as evidence because the court found that the police officer's reliance on the data was not, quote, unquote, objectively unreasonable, allowing the, quote, good faith exemption to the exclusionary rule, unquote. This was basically because the technology was still new and because there was few leads in this case. The district court found that the officers use of this was, was not necessarily unreasonable. So they have this good faith exemption which, which could become a problem later. Yeah, or might not. We'll see. Now this was appealed to the 4th Circuit who went back and forth a bit initially ruling 2:1, that the geofence did not even qualify as a search, so warrant wasn't needed in the first place. Now one judge dissented from this arguing that the warrant issued was, quote, so lacking in particularity and probable cause that it was invalid, unquote. Now this too could become important. Later on, the full Fourth Circuit panel reheard the case again, but were divided 7, 7, half ruling the warrant violated the Fourth Amendment. But most justices still found that the exclusionary rules good faith exception applied in this case. And that then leads us back to the Supreme Court. And the ruling last Monday only actually covers the fourth Amendment aspect of the case. They're not ruling on the good faith exemption. And the fourth Amendment question itself is split into two issues. Did the police conduct a search under the fourth Amendment by acquiring location data from Google? And second, did the multi step geofence warrant issued in this case, did that warrant make this search unreasonable? Now the court only answered this first question, did it actually qualify as a search? And handed off the second part of the question to the fourth Circuit Court of Appeals who will then also rule on the good faith exemption aspect of this case. To quote the majority quote, we leave it to the court of appeals. The further question whether given the warrant issued, the search here was reasonable, meaning that each of its steps was properly described with particularity and, and found to be supported by probable cause, unquote. Justice Kagan then writes out instructions for the Fourth Circuit, most of which relate just to the fourth Amendment itself, saying that the fourth Amendment protects against, quote, unquote, the unreasonable search and seizures of persons, houses, papers and effects, and requires that warrants may only be issued upon probable cause and must particularly describe, quote, the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized, unquote. And this particularity requirement is going to be a big part of this, of this case going forward. Because to issue a warrant, a judge must determine if there's a, quote, unquote, fair probability that the evidence of a crime would be found and that the search is of an appropriate scope. This is quoting from the majority, again, quote, that it's carefully tailored to its justifications and will not take on the character of the wide ranging exploratory searches that the framers intended to prohibit, unquote. And this is the specific key issue with these geofence warrants. The fact that they cast this large dragonet over just everyone in a certain area at a certain time.
- [17:10]
Cooper Quinton
That's right. You're, you're basically searching, you know, potentially hundreds, potentially thousands of people. Right. If you imagine a geofence warrant in downtown Manhattan or something. Right. Like you're, you're treating everyone as a suspect right off the bat. And that's, I mean, that's the problem with any, any sort of mass surveillance, any sort of dragnet surveillance. But that's exactly what this is. And so, I mean, this is, this is a good ruling by the Supreme Court.
- [17:41]
Tabby
Right.
- [17:41]
Cooper Quinton
It's not perfect, but it's surprisingly good given this Supreme Court.
- [17:46]
Garrison Davis
Now, a lot of this ruling is based on a previous ruling, or it's built on a previous ruling from 2018, this case called Carpenter v. United States, which was also a very important ruling that affected the way police can gain access to cell phone location history through cell site towers.
- [18:08]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, so. So Carpenter ruled that police required a warrant to get cell site location information, specifically historic cell site location information. CSLI is the, is the acronym for that. CSLI is basically the police go to a phone company and say, tell us who was connected to these towers at this time. Tell us what towers this phone connected to. And the core rule that, that was essentially equivalent to putting a ankle monitor was their specific language.
- [18:43]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [18:44]
Cooper Quinton
On Everybody in the U.S. right. That, that was that fine grained location data. And so they ruled that you needed a warrant to get that location data, which was a really excellent ruling. This case was brought to the court on the basis of that Carpenter versus United States ruling. And this reaffirmed and expanded. The big difference was that the information that law enforcement had gotten from the phone companies in this case covered a larger amount of people. But the Chatri case covered a much smaller area and a much smaller amount of people. But the court decided that this ruling still applied even in a smaller case. Which is great. It's, you know, really, it's. It's narrowing it down.
- [19:27]
Raisa Freiheit
Right.
- [19:27]
Cooper Quinton
Which is how the Supreme Court works. Right. You get a broad ruling, but then sort of exceptions to that rule and, like, you know, the limits of that end up being tested. Which brings us back to what we were saying before. Right. So, like, the next thing. I think the next thing to test is, does this. That's the Supreme Court think this ruling applies to purchased data? Yeah, it seems like maybe they hinted at that a little bit, but it's, you know, it won't be clear until somebody actually brings that case to the Supreme Court.
- [19:54]
Garrison Davis
One of the most promising sentences in the ruling is, quote, a new technology should not transform what individuals had reasonably thought they could withhold from the government.
- [20:06]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah.
- [20:06]
Garrison Davis
And I mean, that sort of reasoning then, and there's. There's actually a lot of it throughout the majority's ruling, but, like, there's There's a lot of sentences like that, that could. That could be really, really useful going forward.
- [20:17]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah.
- [20:17]
Garrison Davis
And like, you know, a carpenter was itself based on another surveillance case called The United States vs. Jones, which covered another method of tracking physical location and movements, and this was through a. Using a GPS to monitor a vehicle.
- [20:29]
Cooper Quinton
Right.
- [20:30]
Garrison Davis
And that. That was a 54 ruling.
- [20:32]
Kerry Brownstein
So.
- [20:32]
Garrison Davis
Very close. Yeah. But in that case, the. The court found that GPS tracking does qualify as a Fourth Amendment search because, quote, unquote, individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the whole of their physical movements.
- [20:44]
Tabby
Right.
- [20:45]
Garrison Davis
And essentially because of how difficult it was to, at the time, like, secretly monitor and track the movements of a vehicle, including on and off public roads. So. Including on private roads.
- [20:58]
Cooper Quinton
Yep.
- [20:58]
Garrison Davis
It was then reasonable to expect a certain level of privacy because. Because of how difficult this was. But upon the proliferation of GPS trackers, the ease in which this type of government surveillance could be achieved, you know, changed dramatically. And that's the context in which Justice Kagan is writing this sentence, that a new technology should not transform what individuals had reasonably thought they could withhold from the government.
- [21:20]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, that's right. And I mean, I think that that's a. That's a really important sense for a lot of things. Right. That's an important sentence for the fight against license plate readers and. And Flock and the, you know, other companies in that industry. That's an important sentence for cellular location information. Right. Like, this is a great ruling.
- [21:39]
Sam J
Right.
- [21:39]
Cooper Quinton
But it leaves open the whole issue, like I was saying, of, you know, being able to buy surveillance information. Right. And, like, that's what enables license plate readers that's what enables companies that surveil social media. That's what enables tools like WeBlock that sell location information from ad tech. Right. And it does seem like they are, they are hinting that maybe they, you know, that they are ready to rule on that. To me, it's a very, it's a very self apparent argument, right. That, that just because the police bought something doesn't mean they should get around the warrant. The terrible part of this is that, you know, we will probably have to argue in technology in its own right. Unless, you know, we had a functioning Congress and well, they were able to pass very popular.
- [22:29]
Garrison Davis
Let's not get too ridiculous. Let's not.
- [22:32]
Cooper Quinton
Right.
- [22:32]
Garrison Davis
Let's keep things grounded in reality here.
- [22:35]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hope for more realistic goals like total anarchy.
- [22:40]
Garrison Davis
No, I mean, absolutely. It would be great to see some of this stuff just be enshrined. But there is, there is a lot to look forward to considering this ruling. And I think to that point, before we close, let's talk about the third party doctrine. Specifically, what is the third party doctrine?
- [22:53]
Cooper Quinton
So the third party doctrine is a doctrine in US law that states that people don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in information that they've given to a third party, such as a phone company or a bank or a tech company.
- [23:12]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [23:12]
Cooper Quinton
Essentially this is how historically law enforcement has gotten information from phone companies or from banks, et cetera, or tech companies without a warrant. And the heart of this ruling is that the justice has said that cellular location data being equivalent total surveillance to that of an ankle monitor.
- [23:35]
James Stout
Yeah.
- [23:35]
Cooper Quinton
The third party doctrine does not apply to cellular location data.
- [23:40]
Garrison Davis
Yeah. Because like the third party doctrine was set up specifically in reference to like the types of financial information that you will hand over to a bank that's right to do business at the bank or by dialing a phone number, the phone company that knows what the phone number is.
- [23:55]
Tabby
Right.
- [23:55]
Garrison Davis
Like those were the specific instances that establish third party doctrine. And a third party third party auction was not applied in Carpenter v. U.S. and so Kagan wrote that for the very same reasons, it should not be applied to location history from tech companies. And even more specifically because the types of information that location history from Google had access to was even more intimate and fine tuned than what you could get from just picking a cell tower.
- [24:21]
Cooper Quinton
That's right. Because the location information from Google is based on not only your tps, I mean it is your TPS location, which is fairly accurate, but also the triangulation of your Location from WI fi devices and Bluetooth devices around you. Whereas the location you get from csli, which was what was at issuing Carpenter, is going to depend on how dense cell towers are in the area you're in. Because it's just mathematical equation of like what your signal strength is to your nearest three cell towers. And you can kind of triangulate somebody to a, to a broader area based on that.
- [25:00]
Garrison Davis
Well, and location history from Google at this point was tracking people's movements like every two minutes and could operate on a longitude and latitude. So they could not only just figure out where you were on a map, but if you were in a building, what floor you were on that building, like a much more fine tuned look.
- [25:20]
Tabby
Right.
- [25:20]
Cooper Quinton
Altitude as well.
- [25:21]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, yeah. Part of what Carpenter found was that cell phone location information is quote, unquote, quantitatively different from telephone numbers and bank records.
- [25:31]
Cooper Quinton
Yes.
- [25:32]
Garrison Davis
And so because of that finding, they applied that same, that same logic to this case. And I want to read through kind of two paragraphs that, similar to like the line about, about how, you know, people's expectation of privacy should not be changed because of technological developments. I think there's, there's two lines here that, that could become really important going forward in terms of how we understand, like even just the notion of digital privacy. Quote, cell phone location information is not truly shared as one normally understands the term, because cell phones and the services they provide are such a pervasive and insistent part of daily life, indispensable to participation in modern society, that a person could hardly help but generate a trail of location data in no meaningful sense. The court thought, does that mean the person voluntarily exposes to any third party a comprehensive dossier of his physical movements?
- [26:25]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [26:25]
Garrison Davis
So that's Justice Kagan kind of combining the analysis for this specific case with the analysis for Carpenter. And then she goes on to write, quote, the government's app by app, feature by feature method of granting Fourth Amendment protections misapprehends the very nature of modern cell phone use. Pretty much everything a person does on a smartphone requires some kind of opt in. The point of carrying cell phones is to use what's on them, as Carpenter said, to use the apps and the services they provide. That is what has become a pervasive and insistent, even indispensable part of daily life. And so that is what Carpenter insulated from the third party doctrine.
- [27:02]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, my short term memory is terrible, so I've forgotten the exact wording. But the part where she's addressing how piecemeal it is. Right. And how like she's. Yeah, this applies to all apps. This applies to all uses of this location data. Never shall this be subject to any third party doctrine.
- [27:18]
Q
Right.
- [27:19]
Cooper Quinton
I think that that is pretty damning for companies that are currently selling this data to law enforcement. It should be pretty damning anyway.
- [27:28]
Garrison Davis
Yeah. And like the idea that through simply using these devices which are now necessary for modern life, using these does not mean that we're voluntarily giving this data over to companies. And by extension the government, they don't just have free access to it because we are using the things that are necessary for daily life. If they want access to it, they have to go through the proper channels, which are laid out in the Fourth Amendment.
- [27:51]
Fred Armisen
Yes.
- [27:52]
Cooper Quinton
You have to get a warrant at least.
- [27:53]
Garrison Davis
Yes. And so to close, let's talk about kind of what this could mean going forward. Right. Because the question of whether the particular geofence warrant used in this bank robbery case, if that was reasonable or unreasonable, now goes to the 4th Circuit, who will determine if probable cause was established to support the scope of the search and if the warrant satisfied the particularity requirements, considering the fact that it cast a broad dragnet over a whole area rather than being, you know, fine tuned to a specific suspect or even a group of suspects. Kagan wrote of the warrant, quote, how the officers would make their choices at the second and third steps, how they would pick the users subject to more intense scrutiny. The warrant said very little. This is kind of part of like the instructions in which they are writing to the 4th Circuit now. The, the suspect, the bank robber suspect, compared the geofence warrant to a, quote, unquote, unconstitutional general warrant lacking in probable cause, with steps two and three of the warrant leaving, quote, too much authority to police officers and too little to the magistrate, unquote. So what that's saying is that in this like three step warrant, when the police are able to determine who in the broad pool of people caught in the dragnet who to investigate further, that choice was just up to police officers. That question was not laid out in front of a judge. A judge did not authorize that aspect of the search. That was just up to the discretion of officers. That is part of his argument that this was a constitutional violation. Now, of course, that's not the government's take.
- [29:26]
Tabby
Right.
- [29:26]
Garrison Davis
The government claims that the information was, quote, unquote, particularized information from Google's database based on probable cause to believe that Google had the information that would help solve a crime. They also argue that the discretion given to officers in the execution of steps 2 and 3 of the Warrant fell within the bounds of reasonable lists. So going forward, when the fourth Circuit rules on the reasonableness or unreasonableness of this warrant, they will also consider what the district court and the fourth Circuit themselves have previously ruled on. They will reconsider the quote, unquote, good faith exemption.
- [30:00]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, the good faith exception is a doctrine in US Law that allows generally evidence obtained without a warrant is inadmissible in court. The good faith exception allows for evidence which was obtained with a faulty warrant where the law enforcement agents had reasonable cause to believe that it was a valid warrant and they thought they were obtaining that evidence, quote, unquote, in good faith with a valid warrant that that evidence can still be admissible in court even if the warrant is found to be invalid. So that's what they're, that's what they'll be evaluating in this case. And I mean, that's what they've already decided on and we'll have to decide on again. Yeah, even if this warrant is invalid or even if this data is invalid because the second and third step didn't have a warrant associated with them, can this still be admissible in his case under good base exception?
- [30:59]
Garrison Davis
And the Supreme Court does have like instructions for how, how they want the 4th Circuit to reevaluate that question, knowing that they've already ruled on it before, but they are instructing them based on, you know, the legal opinion that is outlined in the majority that they do have to re approach this question with these new insights from the Supreme Court. There is, you know, evidence that rulings like this have impacted the way police operate surveillance, specifically by collecting information from like, cell towers. You are kind of the, the expert in cell site simulators. And there's, I think, reason to believe that the Carpenter ruling also affected the way that cell site simulators were used, despite it not being the particular focus of that ruling. If you want to kind of as, as a very ending note, kind of discuss the Ray Hunter project and you know, how some previous rulings have impacted the way that that type of surveillance has kind of fallen out of fashion.
- [31:59]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, for sure. So cell flight simulators, also known as Stingrays or MC Catchers, these are fake cell towers that police set up to locate a specific person's cell phone, or I should say a specific cell phone, which is often associated with a specific person with a very fine granular level of detail. At eff, I and some of my colleagues have created a product called Ray Hunter to get an idea of how often cell site simulators were being used in the US Specifically, what we were concerned about was that law enforcement could use a cell site simulator to spy on and identify the people present at first Amendment protected activities. So find out who is at a protest, find out who is going to an abortion clinic, find out who is showing up at a mosque. Right? So that was the big concern we had, was that they were being used for that instead of for what police said they were using them for, which is man hunts basically, or, you know, identifying that somebody is in a specific location before SWAT team does a raid on that house. So for the last year or so, we've had hundreds of people all over the country bringing these devices around with them to protests. And just as they go about their daily lives to find out sort of what the lay of the land is and how often these are being used. And the reasoning for this is that we were getting the impression that a lot of activists seem to have the impression that cell site simulators were being used at every protest and that police were driving around with one of these in every car.
- [33:51]
Tabby
Right?
- [33:52]
Cooper Quinton
And there was a lot of, I think, fear and uncertainty and doubt and sort of folk wisdom and misinformation going around. So we wanted to be able to get some real facts on the ground to clear it up. And so over the last year, what we've seen is we have seen evidence of cell site simulators occasionally. What we have not seen is a preponderance of them. From what we're seeing, they're not being used constantly, all the time, everywhere, right. They're being used much more rarely than most people think. And we haven't seen really hardly any evidence of them being used at protests. What we've seen is them being used kind of sometimes around major cities. We've seen them being used outside the US A bit, but inside the US we have not seen them being used for sort of the mass surveillance reason that we feared. That has been backed up by looking at the warrants for sale sizing letters that we've been able to get access to, been backed up by talking to people who are close with law enforcement and who, you know, who understand kind of how law enforcement is actually using these. What we're hearing and what we're seeing sort of evidence of is that cell site simulators are being used with warrants now, because law enforcement by and large thinks that the Carpenter ruling does apply to cell site simulators, because that is cell site location information.
- [35:36]
Garrison Davis
It's the same type of data.
- [35:37]
Cooper Quinton
It is the same exact type of data. Right. And so it makes sense that a warrant should apply to that as well. Before when they figured a warrant didn't apply to this. Right. Because I don't know, I don't know what the mental gymnastics were there. Right. I think it's possible that these were used a lot more. But now it seems like most law enforcement agencies have come to the conclusion that the federal government has come to the conclusion that this technology does require a warrant and that it's more useful or locating a specific person than identifying people in a specific area. I think in addition to the warrants, it makes technical sense because if you want to find the people who are in a specific area, cell site simulator is a expensive, cumbersome, complicated tool for doing that. When the alternatives are sending a geofence
- [36:33]
Garrison Davis
warrant to Google, asking Google just to tell me.
- [36:35]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, asking Google to tell you or asking the phone company for a tower dump, getting a warrant for a tower dump, which is where you ask them to tell you. Everybody that was connected to a specific tower at a specific period of time, that is something that is not addressed by any of these. Tower dumps are still a thing you can get with a warrant. So that's an option. And then of course all of the other methods of non cell phone based surveillance. Right. Face recognition is an option. License plate readers are an option. Right. So there are so many easier ways to get the identities of everybody in a specific area. It doesn't make sense to use simulators for that. And that's what we're seeing. It seems like what they're being used for, for the vast majority of things is identifying that a specific person is in a specific house before a no knock rate is executed. And no knock raids are highly problematic. I am not a fan of SWAT teams. There's a lot of issues there. But if they're going to happen, like I guess, yeah, like let's, let's make sure we're raiding the right house so that they can be sure of which dogs they're killing before they.
- [37:46]
Garrison Davis
I mean, yeah, I mean swatting has become a huge like harassment like tool for people just to deploy against someone that they don't like or influencer that they find annoying. And that, that is a real issue as well.
- [37:58]
Cooper Quinton
So not the biggest issue there. Right. The existence of spot teams and how liberally they're used is the much bigger issue, I think.
- [38:06]
Garrison Davis
So based on how Carpenter seemingly affected the police's reticence to use cell site simulators, I think like we've discussed, there's hope that this new ruling might also be able to be applied to some other surveillance methods, but that will only really become clear over time. There's one particular that I'm also interested in is like keyword warrants where police will just ask a tech company to like get information on all users who typed a specific thing into a search bar. Right, right. And so there's aspects of this recent ruling that could possibly apply to something like that as well. But you know, despite Kagan's annoyance at the, you know, app by app way in which fourth Amendment protections are granted, organizations like legal rights organizations, including like the eff, you know, might still have to kind of approach this from an F by app basis to get like confirmation.
- [38:56]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah.
- [38:56]
Garrison Davis
That these things are subject to the fourth Amendment. So it's something that we will see
- [39:00]
Cooper Quinton
over time until and unless we can get comprehensive federal privacy law, which again is not, I'm not, I'm not holding out hope for Congress to pass any privacy bills anytime, anytime soon.
- [39:12]
Garrison Davis
Not in the immediate future, but we can hope one day. Right. And that is a real thing. Same thing with like data centers. This is a thing that I think people should try to build a mass movement around.
- [39:22]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, absolutely. It is happening to some degrees at the state level. Right. California has a pretty good privacy law. It's not perfect, but it's certainly better than the non existent federal one. Montana became the first state to close the loophole allowing law enforcement to buy data from third parties. Right. So it's, it's. There is hope that at least at the state level we can try to start closing these loopholes, you know, as a band aid until the federal government maybe steps up in four to eight to 20 years.
- [40:01]
Garrison Davis
You know, we'll take that. You know, it is, it is very rare to have and it could happen here episode that ends with there is some hope in general.
- [40:09]
Cooper Quinton
It's very rare to have a conversation with me that ends with any positively at all.
- [40:14]
Garrison Davis
So true. No, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure we can have. You want to talk about Pegasus to bum us all out again at some point?
- [40:20]
Cooper Quinton
Absolutely. I have many ways to bum you out.
- [40:23]
Garrison Davis
But where can people find your work online if they want to hear more about Ray Hunter and all the research you do at EFF?
- [40:32]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah, you can find me at Bluesky. I'm@cooperq.com on Bluesky or Mastodon if you're that flavor of Linux nerd. You can find me at cooperqasto Hackers Town on Mastodon. Or you can find me@eff.org of course, where I publish all of my writing and that we highly recommend checking out our surveillance self defense guides. @ssd.eff.org we have the pretty much the longest continuously updated technical self defense guides that have ever existed and they're really, really excellent resource. I think they're my favorite resource that we put out. So go check those out as well.
- [41:15]
Garrison Davis
Thank you.
- [41:16]
Cooper Quinton
Thank you.
- [41:17]
Garrison Davis
Turn off your phone.
- [41:27]
Ari Chambers
What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [41:30]
Sam J
Hey, what's up, y'?
- [41:31]
James Stout
All?
- [41:31]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [41:32]
Ari Chambers
And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from together. And I heart women's sports because let's
- [41:38]
Sam J
be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.
- [41:42]
Ari Chambers
So Kelsey Findler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.
- [41:49]
Sam J
My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating?
- [41:52]
Ari Chambers
The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire
- [41:57]
Sam J
timeline and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week, every week. Week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.
- [42:05]
Ari Chambers
Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.
- [42:09]
Sam J
Shout outs to you, Naomi, you get the palm.
- [42:11]
Ari Chambers
Naomi, you get the palm for that.
- [42:13]
Sam J
Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [42:28]
Garrison Davis
Hey, Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred
- [42:30]
Fred Armisen
Armisen here, you know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken.
- [42:37]
Kerry Brownstein
We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.
- [42:45]
Fred Armisen
Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning. Breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.
- [42:59]
Kerry Brownstein
How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.
- [43:04]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [43:16]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, improvise, not just words, but a song.
- [43:22]
Garrison Davis
I thought he was gonna write.
- [43:23]
Mia Wong
I thought you were all gonna write a song.
- [43:24]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that.
- [43:26]
Fred Armisen
Listen to Podlandia Ayo rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [43:39]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira E. Grace Bouncy. I'm so excited.
- [43:47]
James Stout
On the bouncy bed.
- [43:48]
Daniel Kurd
You have surprises, many surprises.
- [43:51]
Lele Pons
Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life.
- [43:54]
Q
What up?
- [43:57]
Lele Pons
Hola, amiga.
- [43:58]
Garrison Davis
Hola, mejo, amiga.
- [43:59]
Sam J
Hola.
- [44:00]
Lele Pons
What up?
- [44:07]
Ari Chambers
Yes.
- [44:13]
Lele Pons
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst.
- [44:16]
Garrison Davis
It's lemonade.
- [44:25]
Lele Pons
This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [44:36]
Jake Brennan
I'm Jake Brennan, and on my podcast Disgraceland, I tell the stories behind music's biggest names. The moments that shaped them, haunted them, and changed music history forever. Like how the story of the Foo Fighters and Dave Grohl isn't just about music. Imagine that you're in the biggest band on the planet, as Dave Grohl was in 1994 in Nirvana, and the phone rings and you learn that. Your singer, your friend, the reluctant voice of a generation, Kurt Cobain. This is a story of fame, pressure, friendship, and the weight of fulfilling your destiny. Learn more about the moment everything changed. Disgraceland is part of the Exactly Right network. Listen to new episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes Thursday, and rewinds on Sunday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast podcasts.
- [45:39]
Daniel Kurd
Hello, everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here. My name is Daniel Kurd, and I'm a researcher and analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. Today, I want to talk about football, soccer, whatever, and I'll just start by saying, obviously, FIFA is a terrible, terrible organization. And while there are many heartwarming events in this World cup, the World cup gets me, gets a lot of us. Despite everything, there have also been egregious incidents against players and referees and fans from the global South. Take, for example, what happened to the Somali referee who wasn't allowed to come into the US to do his job. He was kept hours and hours in the airport before being unceremoniously returned to Somalia. Similarly, the head of the Palestine Football association was denied a visa into the United States, not allowed to come to the World cup on US Soil. This is in spite of the fact that FIFA invited association heads from around the world to attend. And he did attend the opening game in Mexico City. Or one of the worst incidents, if you can call it that, the way that the Iranian team has been treated. They weren't allowed to stay in the US despite the games they were playing in this country, were constantly made to fly back to Mexico after every game. Clearly they were put at a severe disadvantage because they weren't allowed to rest and recuperate like the other teams. And listen, I'm not going to say there's a conspiracy, but having not one but three goals discounted by VAR eventually leading to their elimination from the tournament just adds insult to injury. But like I said, of course there are many heartwarming stories. For me as a Palestinian, it's been great to see how much Palestine keeps popping up. Despite the fact that the environment in the United States is much more hostile on this issue than Qatar, the last World cup, people are still talking about Palestine and advocating for Palestine. Thousands of Bosnian supporters, for example, turned Toronto into a sea of blue as they marched toward the stadium for the Canada match chanting Free Palestine. And they did that in a number of places. Inglewood, Seattle. They also chanted Palestine within the stadiums in multiple games. At that Canada game, activists also unfurled a Kick Israel out of FIFA banner. And it makes sense, really, when you understand the experience of Bosnians with genocide themselves. Not too long ago. Similarly, Moroccan fans held Palestinian flags or wore Morocco jerseys with the word Palestine on it, and this showed up on TV at the very opening match in Mexico City. Pro Palestine demonstrators gathered to form a giant human Palestinian flag, and South Korean fans brought Palestinian flags to the tournament, honoring a promise they made during their qualifying when their fans had chanted, we'll take Palestine to the World cup with us. In Gaza, Palestinians are watching the games too. Spain is the favorite team these days because of the government's position on the Israeli Palestinian conflict and because of superstar player Lamin Yamal, who has been unapologetically pro Palestine. Obviously, the genocide that has unfolded in Gaza and the war and killing that continues in the Middle east, in both occupied territories and in Lebanon are part of the reason why this issue seems to be ever present. But it didn't start with a genocide. The story of Palestine at the World cup is more layered than that, and the 2022 World cup in Qatar was a good demonstration of why Palestine keeps popping up and what Palestine represents to fans, especially Arab ones, then and everyone now. I know it might seem strange to be talking about this now, a few years after the fact, but I'VE been thinking about it a lot, especially given everything that has unfolded since. And I think the World cup moment is one of those events that gets more interesting, not less, as time passes. Back then as it does now is showing us something important, not just about Palestine, but about the limits of what governments can actually control when it comes to what their own people believe. So let's get into it. Palestine did not qualify for the 2022 World Cup. The Palestinian national football team was nowhere near Doha in an official capacity. And yet Arabs from across the region and across the world began referring to Palestine then as the 33rd team because Palestine was everywhere. At the 2022 World cup, there were Palestinian flags draped over shoulders in stadiums. Crowds erupted into chants of Multani, the Palestinian anthem. After Arab teams won, one Tunisian fan ran onto the pitch mid match with a Palestinian flag. And when Morocco pulled off their historic upset against Spain. So it's the first African and Arab team to ever reach the semifinals of a World Cup. Moroccan players ran to the crowd and held up the Palestinian flag. This was significant. Morocco had just signed the Abraham Accords with Israel only two years prior to this game, and their players didn't seem to care. Israeli journalists who traveled to Qatar to cover the tournament reported being coldly received, followed, and in some cases physically shut out of interviews by crowds of Arab fans. Some of these reporters were caught on camera claiming to be from other countries, like France or Switzerland. In order to get people to talk to them, some of them masked their logos from their stations. Israeli media at the time expressed something between confusion and outrage. One reporter remarked, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said that the hostility wasn't just coming from governments as they had assumed. It was coming from ordinary people. And this surprised them, but it shouldn't have. Now, none of this was purely spontaneous. That's the part of the story I find most interesting and the part that gets maybe the least attention. Months before the World cup began, a Qatari activist group called Qatari Youth Opposed to Normalization, Q A Y O N started planning. They were founded in 2011, and by 2022, led predominantly by Qatari women, they had been working for over a decade to push back against Qatar's slow drift towards normalizing ties with Israel, which is something the Qatari government had been entertaining, largely under pressure from the United States and from its Gulf neighbors. And in a country where over 80% of people oppose normalization with Israel, this organization, Qatar Youth, had a base. But they had to work carefully because you can't have unsanctioned civil society organizations. There's all sorts of restrictions on independent activism, extremely severe in Khadra. But they saw the World cup as a window, an opportunity to turn what already existed, which was deep, widespread popular solidarity with Palestine, into something visible, coordinated, and impossible to ignore. So they got to work. They persuaded Qatar's national team captain to wear a kefiyya patterned armband before the opening match. And then there was this hashtag, the captain's armband is Palestinian, which started trending on Arabic Twitter. They reached out to Qatari influencers and prominent journalists who amplified the campaign across social media. And they called on local businesses to display signs that they were compliant with the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement. They also ran a kind of counterintelligence operation against Israeli media, because they were the ones that began identifying Israeli journalists and their logos on social media, flagging them, so that Arab fans at the tournament knew who to avoid. And this is how those videos of Israeli broadcasters being turned away kept appearing online. They also organized fans to chant for Palestine at the 48th minute of every match. That's not random. That's a reference to 1948 and to the Nakba, where close to a million Palestinians were expelled from their homes with the founding of the Israeli state. Key members of Qatari youth said the goal was to turn Arab fans from sympathizers into participants. And they were honest about something else, too. This only worked because the ground was already ready. As they put it, the campaign would not have succeeded had it not been for people's own proactive support of the Palestinian cause. And that's worth sitting with for a moment. The organizing mattered, the strategy mattered, but the reason it spread so quickly, so far, is that there was already a fire there. Qatar youth just lit the match. Now, to understand why people were so upset, you have to understand the Abraham Accords. I've talked about it on this podcast before. The normalization agreements brokered by the Trump administration in 2020 between Israel and the UAE, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, and later Sudan and Morocco. These deals were sold as historic breakthroughs, as a new era of peace. And in terms of official diplomatic relations, they were breakthroughs. They were historic. But there was a problem. Nobody asked the people, and these accords didn't solve anything. Now, Arab public opinion surveys have consistently shown that the vast majority of Arabs oppose normalization with Israel absent a resolution to the question of Palestinian statehood and the ongoing occupation. And in the most recent polling before the accords, it was something like 88% of Arabs across 13 countries that rejected normalization with Israel. And nearly 2/3 of those cited the occupation of Palestinian land as their reason. Only 7% cited something like religious objections. The fear had always been that if you normalize relations with Israel, without a resolution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict, Israel would not have any reason to try and resolve the conflict or address the grievances of Palestinians. That Israel perhaps would become more aggressive if the guardrails were off. So what the Abraham Accords actually did from the perspective of ordinary Arabs was deep in the sense that their governments wouldn't listen to them, were willing to sell them out, sell out the Palestinians for economic and security arrangements that disproportionately benefited ruling classes anyway and the US Israeli security architecture. I've written about this academically and what I found is a kind of paradox at the heart of these so called peace deals. Peace initiatives that don't address the root causes of conflict don't actually create peace. They create a different kind of violence, a structural violence, because they maintain the root causes of conflict and they enable authoritarian practices by governments. So Israel shares a lot of tools, surveillance technology, propaganda frameworks, security cooperation, both material and discursive tools. And these have a way of turning up in the hands of governments, repressing their own citizens. Now, I'm not saying the United Arab Emirates or Bahrain needed encouragement to repress their own citizens, but it's just another added layer, another way that the red lines shift and new ways that these governments can attack their own citizens and their own activists. For example, Emirate activists involved in anti normalization activities after the accords became targets of surveillance operations. And people who spoke out about the deals faced travel bans. In Bahrain, civil society organizations were newly restricted. The quote, unquote peace came with a repressive apparatus baked in. Which is exactly why when thousands of Arabs gathered in Doha's public squares to watch the World cup, the energy around Palestine wasn't some just like emotional sentiment. And it wasn't a relic, it was fresh. It was the anger of people who had just watched their governments make deals they never asked for and deals that were used to oppress them and not solve the Palestinian issue. There is a concept that academics and activists have used called sports normalization. The idea is that sports, because they're presented as apolitical or maybe as entertainment, as a space above politics, they can be used as a soft avenue for normalizing relationships that would be otherwise politically controversial. Israel has long pursued this strategy. The logic is if Israel and Arab athletes compete together, then this Image of coexistence replaces the political reality of occupation. You don't need any kind of solution or diplomatic agreement. You just need enough footage of an Israeli in Moroccan shaking hands on the pitch to make people feel like things are moving in a good direction. Qatar youth were very explicit about targeting this. They hosted panels on sports normalization. They released a statement pointing out that Western political boycotts of Russia extended to sporting events after the invasion of Ukraine. And nobody then complained that sports were being mixed up with politics. And to them the inconsistency was glaring. That mixing sports with politics was apparently fine when it was about sanctioning Russia, you know, admittedly very appropriately, but somehow inappropriate when it came to Palestinian rights. And this double standard, I've encountered it constantly in my work, the insistence that the Palestinian cause is uniquely problematic, uniquely in need of being kept out of polite conversation or unreasonable. This insistence falls apart the moment you compare it to any other conflict where the west has chosen a side. Now, the World cup made that visible in real time. When the Palestinian flag showed up in a stadium in Doha, it wasn't just a symbol of solidarity, it was an argument. It said, this issue is not resolved. We have not moved on. It doesn't matter what the Abraham Accords said or how many photo ops, it's going to make any of this go away. Now I want to dwell for a minute on Morocco. Full disclosure, that's the team I support. I hope they go as far as possible. But Morocco is an interesting case and I think it illuminates something about the limits of top down normalization. Like I said, the Moroccan government signed the Abraham Accords and the deal actually included US recognition of Moroccan sovereignty over Western Sahara, which Morocco has long occupied itself. A case of a people's right to self determination being traded away in this diplomatic agreement situation. So it was a completely cynical arrangement all around. And yet when Morocco beat Spain and reached the semifinals, their players held up the Palestinian flag. When Morocco beat Portugal and the streets of Rabat and Casablanca erupted, the Palestinian flag was there too. And fans in Doha who had traveled from across North Africa and the Middle east were wearing Palestinian keffiyehs, chanting for Palestine. Now, the Moroccan government's deal with Israel did not transfer to the Moroccan people. And this is the key insight from the World cup, the one that I keep coming back to, that governments can sign papers, but they can't really sign on behalf of public sentiment. And these countries are not democratic. So any kind of push to do something like this seems like a betrayal to their own citizens. And they can't normalize what has not been normalized in the hearts and minds of their own citizens. There is a kind of arrogance in the Abraham Accords framework. The assumption is that if you get the right signatures, if you get the right photo op on the White House lawn, that the conflict can be ignored and that the Palestinian cause can recede. But the World cup was a direct refutation of that assumption. Now, I've been thinking about all of this in the context of everything that has happened since the genocide in Gaza. The daily images, the death tolls, the wholesale destruction of Gazan society, and the ongoing question of what normalization means now and whether any of those Abraham Accords frameworks can survive what the world has watched happen. Now, I do think it will survive. These governments do not care about what happened in Gaza. But what it shows is that the fears around the Abraham Accords were completely founded. Ignoring the Israeli Palestinian conflict would lead to an escalation in the violence. I think the World cup moment was a Preview back in 2022. It told us something about where popular Arab opinion actually was, not where governments claimed it was and not where Western media assumed it was, but where it actually was. And it showed us that organized strategic activism can channel that sentiment to something visible and politically costly for the forces of normalization. Now, Qatar youth, opposed to normalization, was a small group, and they were operating under real restrictions in a country that doesn't allow independent civil society. And they still managed to turn a global sporting event into one of the most visible expressions of Palestinian solidarity in years. And that matters not because a football tournament, a soccer tournament, is going to solve anything. It doesn't. Palestinian families don't get their homes back because people flew a flag in a stadium. But movements build over time and through moments of visibility, through the accumulation of pressure, and through the refusal to let the issue disappear into a manufactured consensus that was never real to begin with. And today, in 2026, this is not specific to Arab publics. Even Western publics have seen their governments ignore genocide, have seen their rights recede as their government's ally to protect genocide in a variety of ways. Now, I'll end with something a little more personal. When I watched those World cup crowds back in 2022, when I saw all these different Arabs, Moroccans and Tunisians and Saudis, people from countries that have varying and complicated relationships with this issue, all waving the Palestinian flag, I felt a kind of hope. And it's not naive. It's not the hope that this will be resolved. Soon or easily. But the hope that says Palestinians are not alone and the cause is not forgotten. And the silence that has been imposed on this question, attempted silence, top down, for so long, is not the consent it pretends to be. Governments can sign accords, but they can't erase what people know. And they cannot sign away what people feel when they watch a team lose and a flag goes up in a stadium and thousands of people start chanting, Palestine keeps showing up uninvited at every table that tries to exclude it. And I think it will keep doing that. Thank you so much for listening to it could happen here. I'm Dana Alker.
- [62:12]
Ari Chambers
What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [62:14]
Sam J
Hey, what's up, y'?
- [62:15]
Mia Wong
All?
- [62:15]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [62:16]
Ari Chambers
And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together. And I heart women's sports because, let's
- [62:22]
Sam J
be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.
- [62:26]
Ari Chambers
So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.
- [62:33]
Sam J
My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we?
- [62:36]
Garrison Davis
What are we eating?
- [62:37]
Ari Chambers
The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire
- [62:41]
Sam J
timeline and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.
- [62:49]
Ari Chambers
Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.
- [62:53]
Sam J
Shout out to you, Naomi, you get the palm.
- [62:55]
Ari Chambers
Naomi, you get the palm for that.
- [62:57]
Sam J
Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [63:12]
Fred Armisen
Hey, Portlandia fans.
- [63:13]
Kerry Brownstein
Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you
- [63:16]
Fred Armisen
know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance. Spike and yes, the chicken.
- [63:21]
Kerry Brownstein
We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.
- [63:30]
Fred Armisen
Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning. Breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.
- [63:43]
Kerry Brownstein
How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.
- [63:48]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [64:00]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song about.
- [64:06]
Garrison Davis
Well, I thought he was going to write.
- [64:07]
Mia Wong
I thought you were all going to write a song.
- [64:08]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that.
- [64:10]
Fred Armisen
Listen to Podlandia Ayo rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [64:23]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira y Gracie. I'm so excited.
- [64:31]
Daniel Kurd
On a bouncy bed, you have surprises, many surprises.
- [64:35]
Lele Pons
Welcome to Suite 305 where the group chat comes to life.
- [64:38]
Jake Brennan
What up?
- [64:42]
Lele Pons
Hola, amiga.
- [64:42]
Garrison Davis
Hola, Mejoramig.
- [64:58]
Lele Pons
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst.
- [65:01]
Garrison Davis
It's lemonade.
- [65:09]
Lele Pons
This is Sweet305. Listen to Sweet305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [65:20]
Jake Brennan
I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that you're Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex Beatle and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters. And for a ridiculous charge or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous. And what about that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Disgrace land on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [66:29]
Garrett
Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about firing your boss and keeping them fired and then making their not be bosses. That was an extremely long and slightly cumbersome intro from your host, Mia Wong. But with me today to talk about how to do such a thing is Raisa Freiheit, Tabby and Daniel from the iww, who are part of a tour talking about just that. So all three of you, welcome to the show.
- [66:58]
P (IWW member)
Thank you.
- [66:59]
Q (IWW member)
Thank you for having us. Yeah, I'm so excited.
- [67:04]
Garrett
Me as well.
- [67:05]
Q (IWW member)
I mean, I'm excited for every time I do something like this because I am very much an attention whore. I feel as though as an actress, I kind of have to be.
- [67:16]
Garrett
I mean. Yeah, that is kind of, you know, you do. You are, I guess, like. Yeah. Trying to. I don't know. Oh, my God. How do I do a better transition?
- [67:25]
Q (IWW member)
I don't know. You'd have to ask my doctor.
- [67:32]
Garrett
Okay, never mind. We're leaving in the part about how to do a better transition and we're leaving it. You'd have to ask my doctor. I like this. This is great. Speaking of a union that has a unbelievable number of trans people in it these days.
- [67:45]
Mia Wong
Yeah.
- [67:46]
Garrett
So we have on the show talked a little bit about the Industrial Workers of the World. We have had some IWW unions on the show. But, yeah, today we're also going to be talking about sort of the history of the union and something cool that the union is doing. So I guess to start off, can you three give a kind of brief introduction to like, you know, like the. The one sentence like, what is this thing? And then what is this tour that you're doing?
- [68:16]
P (IWW member)
Yeah. So this tour is a decentralized tour. There's not like a small number of, like, experts, so to speak, who are touring the country and giving a speech or talking about things. It's more like each individual IWW branch that is participating is planning and organizing its own event, but we're coordinating on a national level and trying to promote this very broadly to the public. Because the. The IWW hasn't done a very, like, public event, especially a national one like this, in quite some time. And so we feel like the moment is calling for something like this.
- [68:51]
Garrett
Yeah. And so I guess we can now ask, okay, like, what. What actually is the iww and how do we explain to people that it is in fact called the Industrial Workers of the World, not the International Workers of the World? And also that it is not just a union of people who work in heavy industry.
- [69:09]
Tabby
Well, we're the Industrial Workers of the World because we organize industrially. We want to organize all the workers in each industry and not by their trade.
- [69:18]
Garrett
Yeah, exactly.
- [69:20]
Q (IWW member)
So an example I always use, you know, since I am in so much student debt, what happens when you're getting your master's and your doctorate is, say there's a school, a university, instead of what traditional unions do, which is, you know, you have the teachers union and then like the janitors union and, you know, the TA's union and all these separate unions, like cafeteria worker union, et cetera, you just have one big union. That's one of the things the WW is called. You just have one union across all of these things. So everyone from the teachers to the TAs to the janitors to everyone in between is in the same union in the same bargaining unit.
- [70:08]
Tabby
And we don't just stop at one industry. The goal of the IWW is to organize all industries industrially. Capital is organized this way and workers really ought to do the same.
- [70:20]
Q (IWW member)
Exactly. We have everyone from sex workers to actresses to carpenters to, especially back in the day, a lot of minors, you know, everyone you can think of. As long as you don't have hiring or firing power and aren't a copper, active duty, military, you can join the iww.
- [70:42]
Daniel Kurd
Yeah.
- [70:42]
Garrett
And that's something that I think. I think we've gotten to on this show a little bit, which is that, like, I mean, obviously it depends a lot on where you are, but, like, a lot of the organizing the IWW does is with service workers and service workers in shops that every other union looks at and goes, well, you're not worth organizing because we can't get enough money or members out of it. And that's something I. I don't know, I think is really valuable in this moment where, yeah, like, unbelievable numbers of people are doing service work. That's like, what, that's what the economy is built on. If you're committed from the start to organizing all sectors and all workers and all industries, you don'. End up in a place where you just write off, you know, like, entire sectors of the economy that are a lot of times the people who most desperately need to organize.
- [71:27]
P (IWW member)
Yeah. And that's like, exactly why the IWW was born in the first place was because the trade unions back in the 1900s were ignoring all of the unskilled workers, so to speak, like the miners and like the dock workers. But the IWW, all the way back 1905, was saying, what it's still saying today is that all workers need a union. And I'm a bartender, I'm a server. I've been one since I was 16 years old. My whole working life and my experience as just a working class person has drawn me to the iww, its philosophy. Yeah. Because no other union really cares about us, but the IWW is there. And like you said, like, that's what most workers in this country, not most, but a large chunk of workers in this country are service workers. It makes up like a third of the economy.
- [72:15]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [72:16]
Tabby
And moreover, the industrial workers of the world teach us the tools to make change in our workplace.
- [72:22]
Garrison Davis
Right.
- [72:22]
Tabby
Other unions are something of a service model. Right. They themselves become a service for their clients, who are the workers. But what the IWW teaches is that it's on us.
- [72:34]
Garrison Davis
Right.
- [72:35]
Tabby
We need to make the change in our workplace. We have to analyze the conditions, really understand the imbalance of power that the bosses have over us as wage workers and change them. And that means talking to our colleagues, learning, analyzing, and then taking action, direct action, to make the changes that we want. Because only us, we're the ones who know what's best for our workplace, what's best for our industry.
- [73:01]
Garrison Davis
Right.
- [73:01]
Tabby
And we're in a position to make that change when we organize horizontally in that way.
- [73:06]
Q (IWW member)
Yeah. The thing that I really love about the IWW is that it's a very good teacher in many ways. You know, so many people, you know, aren't fortunate to have the incredible amount of education that I have in, you know, really being able to study the material conditions of capitalism, of really kind of getting at the center of, you know, how change is made. And I find that with the IWW and the way we organize, no classroom in the world can teach you, as well as your own experience, that the way to revolution is not electing some politician. The way to the revolution isn't handing your power to some union bureaucrat. The way to the revolution, to socialism, to communism, to industrial democracy, to the abolition of the wage system is direct action, is doing it yourself, is shop floor organizing. And when workers realize that they have power over their own lives and destinies at work, they realize that they have power over all of society. Once we come together and decide upon something, there is no employer who can stop us.
- [74:29]
Garrett
You know, Big Bill Haywood, who's a very, very famous old IWW member, has this line where he goes, I've never read Capital, but I have its scars on my back.
- [74:41]
Q (IWW member)
Many memes have been made of that.
- [74:43]
Garrett
Yeah. And it's, it's. It's something that I. I don't know, like, something I do appreciate kind of about, like, my experience with the union has been that, like, it's a place where, you know, the theoretical stuff that you're doing, right. Is stuff that's drawn from just the immediacy of, like, okay, we have to get a bunch of people to show up to a meeting so that, you know, we can do this union. We have to, like, talk to people and we have to like, get people organized to be able to do direct actions. We have to be able to like get people to show up in this place and like do all of the sort of like, you know, the, just the, like the, the nitty gritty technical work of like fighting a class struggle. But it's this place where like. Yeah, you actually yet theory that's drawn from action and is sort of unified with it because you just, you, you have to do it right. Like you have to get everyone to do the thing constantly and there's no one else who can do it for you. There's just you and your fellow workers and it's, yeah, it's you and your fellow workers and you're fighting against the boss and it, it rocks.
- [75:42]
Tabby
And then once you feel it, you're hooked. Yeah, right. Once you really get to experience that, that sort of camaraderie, that closeness you actually get with your co workers when you know your comrades and struggle, you're working together towards something that's way bigger than any department, right. Or institution or anything. It's a matter of creating the world that we want for ourselves. The world that like we are entitled as workers as a creator of all this wealth and all of these great things that humans are capable of. Like, that's, that's what the wobbly are all about.
- [76:16]
P (IWW member)
In my humble opinion, this kind of is bringing up for me like one of the most remarkable things about the IWW historically. Like in its heyday, it had nearly a half percent of all workers in this country within its ranks. And like the wobbly philosophy like spread like wildfire across the country and it was just spread by regular rank file workers who were empowered and believed in something. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's sad to say that like today a lot of workers don't even know what the IWW is, what it means, like, what it's. And so like that is part of the reason why we're doing the Fire Boss tour is to like actually become a phenomenon again and to have people recognize us and like know the wobbly way of organizing, you know.
- [77:02]
Q (IWW member)
Yeah, I, I cannot tell you the amount of times, you know, I've, I've been talking with, you know, other union organizers and they said, wait, the IWW still exists?
- [77:13]
Garrett
Yeah, it's a thing that happens a
- [77:14]
Q (IWW member)
lot, or even worse, they don't know about it at all. And again, as a historian of our union and a somewhat longtime member, I've been a member since 2019. It really pisses me off. Pissed me off to the degree that last year for our 120th anniversary, I produced and performed in a waiversary livestream. We had people from four different countries and multiple different branches just call into the show, shout out to caveat. In New York City, they hosted us. And that kind of just really feeds into why we're doing fire your boss. Because I know all of us want the IWW to be like, known and you know, not just as a union that the US government killed, which by the way, they failed to do, but as a vibrant force that is an alternative to not only, you know, wage slavery, but unions as a service and, you know, not unions as you and your co workers and your comrades.
- [78:21]
Garrett
Yeah, and that, that's something I think comes up a lot in organizing, which is like a lot of the history of what the union is and not just sort of the history of like, I guess what you would call like the heyday in the 1900s and like, you know, through that's like the 1920s, but like the modern history of the union has just been suppressed or disappeared. I think people now are kind of getting an understanding that like, there was a Starbucks union before the current Starbucks union that like, aww organized. I think people tend to think of it as like, it was like some shops in New York and it's like, no, no, it wasn't. It was all over the country. There was a whole bunch of shit that they did. There were enormous numbers of workers involved. And it's a thing that like, it's both from, from a historical perspective, but also from the perspective of like, just generationally we tend to lose like movement knowledge as, as each generation comes down because a lot of the stuff just isn't passed on.
- [79:22]
Q (IWW member)
No one knows the international anymore.
- [79:25]
Q
Lame.
- [79:26]
Q (IWW member)
No one knows anymore.
- [79:29]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, but it's not, it's not even just that.
- [79:31]
Garrett
It's like there's stuff that like happened in our lifetime that like people you probably have met were involved with that like, is just gone. Like the example I always talk about on this show and I'm going to keep talking about until every single person in the left knows about it was the Oaxaca uprising where like, yeah, like also like wobblies, like went to this and were in it. But it's like, yeah, like people in Mexico, like, took a major North American city and held it longer than the Paris Commune did. And this was in 2006. Like, I guess maybe there are some of you now, horrifyingly who weren't alive for that, but like, nice way to make me feel old. I know it's a nightmare. The history and possibility of struggle, I think, like, just gets lost in ways where people suddenly don't realize that, like. Yeah, no, like in, in, in your lifetimes, people formed giant assemblies and took control of like a major North American city and held it for months. Like, that's, that's, that's, that's a thing that we all live through.
- [80:28]
Tabby
It's a long memory. Right. I mean, it's a powerful weapon that we have when we actually remember these things.
- [80:33]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [80:34]
Tabby
When we really learn from them and we realize that's ourselves, that is our history, that is a people's history. Right. We are learning somebody else's history. We're living right in the world of the ruling class. Right. And we just need to realize that we're in the position to change it. We're the ones who do it, who make the history and really create the world. We want in the shell in all of this, like, you know, fuckery that's going on around the world.
- [80:59]
James Stout
It's on us.
- [81:02]
Garrett
While I'm talking about Mexico, to talk about a very different part of Mexico, I do want to mention, like, maybe my, I don't know if it's my favorite, like one of the pieces of wobbly, like, history that I really like, that I think never gets talked about is the fact that in a similar way that like, what happens today, there's, there's a lot of connections between workers in like, workers in California, workers in Mexico, and there's a bunch of people moving back and forth across the border. There's workers moving around and whole bunch of, of Mexican wobblies of various kinds and a whole bunch of wobblies, like, went over and fought in the Mexican Revolution because it was, it was, it was the thing to do.
- [81:37]
Q (IWW member)
Yeah. The collaboration was to the point that multiple locals in various states in Mexico and also California and Arizona, they were literally like merged. So it was literally like the same local across, you know, national borders.
- [81:55]
Garrett
Yeah. And if I'm remembering correctly, like the IWW like took a few Mexican cities, like in the north, because they were the people who were just doing the uprising there.
- [82:05]
Q (IWW member)
Yup. Them and their allies in the Partido Liberal Mexicano, which do not be confused by the name, was an anarchist group that is a whole history in and of itself.
- [82:17]
Garrett
One of the, the all time funniest things we've ever seen of just. Yeah, we, we named ourselves the Liberal Party of Mexico, but we're anarchists. Just, just incredible Stuff going on in the 1900s.
- [82:28]
Q (IWW member)
It was a very different time.
- [82:30]
Garrett
Yeah. Speaking of very different times.
- [82:34]
Mia Wong
Yeah.
- [82:34]
Garrett
Do you want to talk more about sort of what is going to be involved in, in, in this tour and I guess also like how people can get involved with it and learn and hopefully like start organizing and fighting in their workplaces.
- [82:49]
P (IWW member)
Yeah. So the rough curriculum or agenda for the tour has like four or five primary like sections. But like I said at the beginning of this conversation, like it's a decentralized tour. So each branch is going to do it a little bit differently, but roughly it's going to be first like people. We're going to try to like talk with people who attend, like see what people's current conception of a union is. Just like kind of talk about unions broadly and how people perceive them and then transition into Talking about the IWW's way to do units and solidarity. Unionism, which doesn't necessarily rely on recognition from the state or capital. Like we recognize ourselves as a union, you know, we take direct action, we're very democratic, very caring, you know, talking about, yeah, the IWW's way to do unionism and industrial like how do you do industrial unions? And then moving into how unions can be a revolutionary force and how like we're facing all these things we're up against, like these FBI raids in multiple like cities and states across the country. ICE is.
- [83:57]
Raisa Freiheit
Yeah.
- [83:58]
P (IWW member)
Like literally murdering people in the streets. We've like got genocides going on all over the place. And by taking back control of our labor and shutting shit down, we can be a revolutionary force. And I feel like a lot of people have kind of forgotten about the movement and so to speak because of how shitty like these trade unions can be sometimes and how bureaucratic. And so, you know, we should remember that these are really powerful like things to be doing. And then we'll wrap it up with just talking about like next steps and things. Hopefully get people out to organize your trainings. Just get people connected to their local branches. Make connections with people who are like thinking about the same things about building militant rank and file unions and stuff.
- [84:43]
Garrett
Yeah, yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about the organizer trainings? Because I think that's a really, really cool thing that WWE does that people don't really know about at all.
- [84:51]
P (IWW member)
Yeah, I really love the IWW's organizer training. We have an OT101 organizer training 101 called Building the Committee and it's a two day training, kind of like a big crash course into how to build a union from scratch, like within your workplace.
- [85:11]
Q
Yeah.
- [85:11]
P (IWW member)
How to start gathering contacts, how to start having like those initial conversations with worker, your fellow workers, and how to develop your co workers into organizers and how to build power in the workplace and shift that balance of power from the boss to the workers. And it's, it's very different than like other union organizer trainings because a lot of other trainings are basically like training you how to do card check campaigns, like how to talk to your co worker, get them to sign a card, and then you never talk to them again kind of thing. But yeah, we're not interested in that. We're interested in like building real relationships and like building real power with our co workers. And that's what the training is all about.
- [85:53]
Garrett
Yeah, I think it's fun both on two levels. One, I've, I've been to one of these and it's very, very good. And the second thing that I think is very funny is like, like the other unions that like, suck less in the us like, part of what has happened is they've adopted a bunch of the trading stuff.
- [86:06]
Q (IWW member)
Like from the amount of times I've seen some union doing something and being like, they learned it from us, it's very obvious they learned it from us.
- [86:18]
Garrett
I will listen to people being like, they're giving a definition of the union. I'm like, that's the IWW one. And I know your leadership doesn't believe this because that's like not, that's not how your union works. But yeah, you could, you could, you could, you could, you can get the original one from the source. That doesn't have. In the same way that like a bunch of the modern trade unions cut out a couple of verses of Solidarity Forever because they were too radical.
- [86:42]
Q (IWW member)
They mutilated. Our fucking baby. Chaplain is rolling in his fucking grave.
- [86:49]
Cooper Quinton
That's our canon.
- [86:51]
Garrett
They stole the song. And then they were like, oh, my God, hold on. This like, might teach workers that they don't have anything in common with their bosses. Like, we have to stop. We can't.
- [87:01]
Tabby
There's seven verses altogether. Count them.
- [87:04]
Garrison Davis
Seven except no seven.
- [87:05]
Garrett
Yeah. And most, most unions sing like five.
- [87:08]
Tabby
Oh, if that.
- [87:10]
Garrett
Yeah. And you know, in the same way that you can get the original uncut version of Solidarity Forever, you too can get the organizer training that these other people are getting. Bad vers.
- [87:24]
Q (IWW member)
Yeah, Fun story. So this is unrelated to the iww, but also related. A few weeks ago, I was part of the anti Zionist Jewish contingent at the Queer Liberation March in New York City. And of course, I got on the megaphone and led everyone in singing Solidarity Forever.
- [87:49]
Garrett
Hell yeah.
- [87:49]
Garrison Davis
Hell yeah.
- [87:50]
Garrett
It's a good time.
- [87:51]
Tabby
I hear there's a new Little Red songbook in the works. I don't know how far along the committee committee is, but this has been a mammoth project. I could only imagine, Right. Producing a new Little Red songbook.
- [88:05]
Garrett
By the way, I want to point this out to you. Speaking of other people taking stuff. The IWW had Little Red books before the Maoists did. Like they. I, I can't, I can't say for certain that Mao Zedong took that shit from us. But, like, that stuff is from way fucking before Maoism existed. Like, this is not affiliated. Those motherfuckers.
- [88:29]
Q (IWW member)
I mean, Mao was a. Was an anarchist before he became a Marxist.
- [88:34]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [88:34]
Q (IWW member)
Because the Chinese anarchist movement 100 years ago was way stronger than the Marxist movement. Like, half the original communist parties in the world were founded by former anarchists.
- [88:49]
Garrett
Yeah. And this, this has gone poorly for them. Checks, notes. Filtering back to the 2020 20s from the 1920s. Where can people find where tours are happening and. Yeah, and get more involved.
- [89:17]
P (IWW member)
Yeah, we have a website. It's industrial worker card company. There's two Rs and card. I don't know if we can link that, like in the description of the podcast.
- [89:28]
Garrett
Oh yeah, yeah, we can. We'll link it in the description.
- [89:30]
P (IWW member)
Okay, cool. So yeah, that website will have all of the tour locations. Right now there's eight locations. There might be one or two more being added in the near future, but as of right now, it's like Portland, Sacramento, Denver, Seattle, Chicago, Green Mountain, which is Burlington, Vermont, New York City and Ypsilanti, Michigan, who are all having locations on this tour. And that website will have all the tales like when, where, etc.
- [89:57]
Garrett
Hell yeah. I'm excited.
- [89:58]
Q (IWW member)
I also want to shout out specifically. First off, I'm the proud chairwoman of the orientation committee of NYC iww. Actually, former branch secretary, treasurer of Northern New Jersey before we merge with New York. But NYC IWW is having our fire your boss tour stop at Woodbine in Manhattan on August 22nd. Starting at noon. Free lunch will be provided.
- [90:27]
Mia Wong
Oh yeah.
- [90:28]
Q (IWW member)
So here in the NYC area, please stop by. You get to meet the sexy trans woman with the transatlantic accent.
- [90:37]
Tabby
I visited Woodbine when it was still in Ridgewood, Queens. I'm very much looking forward to checking out their new location and joining you all.
- [90:45]
Q (IWW member)
They still have that Queens location. I think they've just expanded into Manhattan.
- [90:51]
Tabby
Right on. It's been ages now. But anyway, if you're in northern New England, you could join us at the public library in Burlington, Vermont, on Sunday, August 16th. That is Bennington battle Day, a state holiday unique to the state of Vermont.
- [91:09]
Garrett
Do you have anything else that you want to tell everyone before. Before we head out?
- [91:15]
Q (IWW member)
I would say that I think what the IWW does very uniquely that I haven't really seen any other union do, is that in my opinion, at our best, we go contract list. Shout out to Stardust Workers United. They're an NYC IWW shop. Who are the singing waiters and other staff at Ellen's Stardust Diner. And of course, I'm a fan since I'm an actress and singer myself and of course, fellow worker. But they don't have a contract. What they do is they use direct action and various tactics to exert their power and negotiate with the bosses issue by issue. They don't use state power to enforce it at all. There's been no election. There's no contract signed. All they did is get a bunch of their fellow workers to join the IWW and exist as a bargaining unit and exert power that way. And I think that's very powerful because we aren't relying upon the state to enforce our will. We're doing it ourselves. And that's such a powerful thing when so many people just are screaming, why won't someone save us? You know, everyone's like, why won't someone do something?
- [92:38]
Garrett
Why won't someone do something?
- [92:41]
Q (IWW member)
Why will someone do something? And I'm just like, you can do it yourselves. You can make your own conditions better by you and your co workers alone. And I think that's so special about the IWW is that there truly is a revolutionary break from the state.
- [93:02]
P (IWW member)
The thing that I would want to end this conversation with is I feel like the labor movement in the United States has been trying the same thing over and over again for decades. Like, ever since the National Labor Relations act was passed. Like, we've been trying this contract model, like this service model that we've been talking about. And it's kind of why the labor movement is as weak as it is today. And the current administration is going after these protections that we had. And it kind of just goes to show how we can't rely on these pennies that the state throws us. Like, these protections, they're not really real. So we need to build our own power. We need to be reliant on ourselves. And there's one Quote that I have really loved. I don't know who said it, but it says today's labor movement, which involves the absolute majority of the global population, along with its allies and marginalized groups and minorities, must mount an offensive. Reviving strategies and energetic dedication to. To radical methods. And that's what we're trying to do with the fire boss store is like, return to these radical methods that worked so well, like, historically. We need to try something new.
- [94:14]
Tabby
So, yeah, yeah, it's something very, very new and very, very old at the same time.
- [94:21]
Q (IWW member)
There are some historians that put the estimates of members of the iww. It's kind of hard to track due to a lot of the members were migrant workers. Put it at possibly over a million in the 1910s. And, you know, in my opinion, it's a good start.
- [94:42]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, you know, let's.
- [94:43]
Q (IWW member)
Let's get there. I mean, the AFL CIO is like, 3, 4, or 5 million. You know, I'm. I'm hoping the fire your boss tour is the. Is the start of, you know, great, amazing things for our union because. Because hell knows millions of people, if not billions, could benefit from us.
- [95:04]
Q
Yeah.
- [95:04]
Tabby
Every worker and organizer. I hope that's a step we're taking. Right. I hope everyone that joins us on this tour gets to feel more like an organizer, feel more like a leader, and really understand what's going on in their workplace and all around the world, because that's what we need as we go forward.
- [95:22]
Mia Wong
Yeah.
- [95:22]
Garrett
But that's a good note to end on. And thank you. Thank all of you for coming on
- [95:26]
Garrison Davis
the show and talking.
- [95:27]
P (IWW member)
Thank you so much.
- [95:28]
Q (IWW member)
Yeah, thank you for having us.
- [95:31]
Garrett
Happy to. And hopefully we all get to see each other, like, on the front lines of the class war someday soon. And when I say you, I mean everyone. You, the listeners, too.
- [95:41]
P (IWW member)
Solidarity.
- [95:42]
Q (IWW member)
Thank you. Lovely listeners. Also, one cannot be an attention whore if no one is there to listen to her.
- [95:59]
Ari Chambers
What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [96:01]
Sam J
Hey, what's up, y'?
- [96:02]
Q
All?
- [96:02]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [96:03]
Ari Chambers
And we're the host of Everyone watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together. And I heart women's sports because, let's
- [96:09]
Sam J
be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.
- [96:13]
Ari Chambers
So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.
- [96:20]
Sam J
My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we.
- [96:22]
Garrison Davis
What are we eating?
- [96:24]
Ari Chambers
The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire
- [96:28]
Sam J
timeline and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.
- [96:36]
Ari Chambers
Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.
- [96:40]
Sam J
Shout outs to you, Naomi, you get the palm.
- [96:42]
Garrison Davis
Naomi, you get the palm.
- [96:44]
Sam J
Because we're not just interested in what happened, we're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [96:59]
Fred Armisen
Hey, Portlandia fans.
- [97:00]
Kerry Brownstein
Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you
- [97:02]
Fred Armisen
know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken.
- [97:08]
Kerry Brownstein
We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves. To tell you about Podlandia. AO rewatch our brand new podcast.
- [97:17]
Fred Armisen
Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.
- [97:30]
Kerry Brownstein
How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.
- [97:35]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [97:47]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song.
- [97:52]
Garrison Davis
Well, I thought he was going to write.
- [97:54]
Mia Wong
I thought you were all going to write a song.
- [97:55]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that.
- [97:57]
Fred Armisen
Listen to Podlandia Ayo rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [98:10]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Paris Hilton, Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira E. Gracie. I'm so excited.
- [98:18]
Daniel Kurd
On the bouncy bed, you have surprises, many surprises.
- [98:22]
Lele Pons
Welcome to suite 305, where the group chat comes to life. What up,
- [98:29]
Q
amiga?
- [98:44]
Lele Pons
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow Starburst.
- [98:47]
Garrison Davis
It's lemonade.
- [98:56]
Lele Pons
This is suite 305. Listen to suite 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [99:07]
Jake Brennan
I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that you're Paul McCartney. It's 1980, you're an ex Beatle and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters. And for a ridiculous charge or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist? Lady Gaga is being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous. And what about that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer. The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Disgraceland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast podcasts.
- [100:16]
Garrison Davis
This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. A specter is haunting the United States. Last year, Democratic Socialist Zoran Mandani beat establishment politician Andrew Cuomo in the New York mayoral election two times, both in the Democratic primary and the November General. Since then, the Democratic Socialists of America have only grown their power in New York City, state and the halls of Congress. Claire Valdez, Brad Lander and Darieliza Avila Chevalier won their Congressional primary, unseating two Democrat incumbents and beating one incumbent backed progressive. That same night, seven New York City DSA candidates won their Democratic primaries for the State assembly and State Senate, paving the way to send seven new Democratic Socialists to the New York State Legislature, joining the eight Socialists already in office. In total, nine out of the ten insurgent candidates on the NYC DSA slate won their races last month, beating sitting incumbents and establishment backed candidates. When Hakeem Jeffries appeared on TV at a DSA election night party, the crowd chanted, you're next. The next morning in the Oval Office, President Trump commented on the DSA sweep.
- [101:40]
Garrett
President Trump, great night for Democratic Socialist candidates. Last night in the New York primaries they swept and knocked out two incumbents.
- [101:49]
P (IWW member)
You're from New York.
- [101:51]
James Stout
Why do you think it is that
- [101:52]
Tabby
now the endorsement of Zoran Mamdani means
- [101:55]
Garrett
more than the endorsement of Hakeem Jeffries?
- [101:59]
Q
Well, they going radical left. They're going. And really, you know, you talk about the Democrat socialists you took. Really, it's really communist. That's these people. I watched that woman last night. That's not a socialist. I know socialists. That's a. That woman is a communist.
- [102:16]
Garrison Davis
Just a week prior, a DSA endorsed candidate won the Democratic primary in the Washington D.C. mayoral election and a DSA member won the primary for the Ward 1 City Council seat. Then a week after the New York City sweep, another Democratic socialist, Melot Quiros, won the Democratic primary in Colorado's 1st congressional House district, unseating a 30 year incumbent. This sequence of wins rattled both the Democratic establishment as well as Trump and the GOP. Here's Trump again in the Oval Office on June 29.
- [102:52]
Lele Pons
Zoramdani said in an interview this week
- [102:54]
Garrison Davis
that he was open to being the poster child for socialist campaign candidates.
- [102:58]
Sam J
Are you worried about more socialist candidates
- [103:00]
Cooper Quinton
across the United States? I think it's a big threat to
- [103:02]
Q
our nation actually, because it's not socialism, it's really communism. They use the word Social Democrat because it sounds so nice, but it's really communism you're talking about. I think it's the biggest threat to our nation there is, maybe since our founding.
- [103:19]
Garrison Davis
President Trump spent much of the July 4th weekend commemorating the 250th anniversary of the country, attacking communism. These are clips from Trump's America 250 address on July 4 and other speeches and press conferences from that same week.
- [103:36]
Q
Communism is a loser and it always will be. The communist system is the opposite of the American system and the communist system has never worked. Our warriors did not fight communism on battlefields across the the world only to have that menace rear its ugly head right back here in America. We're not going to let it happen because it's like a cancer that spreads and you better stop it fast. We will never let the United States become a communist country. You can be loyal to Karl Marx or you can be loyal to America. Communism is a disaster. It's been proven to be for thousands of years under different names but same thing. There is now a resurgence of the communist menace in our land, including from newcomers to our country who embrace ideas totally opposed to our way of life and our great success. Communism is a mortal threat to American liberty. It is the greatest threat to our country, including World War I, World War II, Pearl harbor or even 9 11.
- [104:45]
Garrison Davis
As the DSA has won seats across the country, the organization has attracted new members. After the 2024 presidential election, DSA had about 50,000 members. Nationally. This month, DSA reached over 120,000 members, a record high. Just the New York City chapter alone has over 15,000 members. Late last year, DSA allocated funding to open 20 new offices across the country. Around the June primary, the Zionist extremist group Canary Mission started specifically targeting NYC DSA with write ups on all 10 of the insurgent candidates. Canary Mission's anti NYC DSA article from before the election was titled A Thousand Zorons don't threaten me with a good time. The article not only attacked the NYC DSA candidates, but also highlighted how the organizational structure of NYC DSA has established a template for success by running candidates as a whole bloc who can campaign together and then support each other once in office. Quote NYC DSA elected officials meet weekly to align votes and coordinate strategy. The machine doesn't stop in all caps. In a post on X the Everything app after the June primary, Canary Mission wrote, quote, new York City DSA is not just growing, it is building the machinery to turn radical ideology into political power. The numbers show the scale. The largest DSA chapter in America, roughly 90,000 volunteers, hundreds of field leads, a candidate pipeline and coordination that continues after election Day. This is how a movement stops looking like protest and starts looking like infrastructure. New York is the testing ground. The machine is already being built, unquote. And yeah, they're right. Basically everything in that little quote is 100% true. And that is what's making both the liberal and conservative establishment nervous. On the eve of July 4, Fox News ran a segment on the Commie Revolution. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt joins us now.
- [107:05]
Garrett
The Commie Revolution.
- [107:07]
Garrison Davis
Caroline, did you ever see this coming?
- [107:09]
Lele Pons
This is not your granddaddy's Democrat Party. This is not the grand Democrat party of jfk. This is a full blown communist revolution that is taking over Capitol Hill.
- [107:20]
Garrison Davis
If these Commies get in, they're going
- [107:22]
Garrett
to be a powerful little caucus.
- [107:24]
Garrison Davis
They're going to hear to blow things up. They're not here to negotiate Pentagon funding.
- [107:29]
Cooper Quinton
They want zero Pentagon funding.
- [107:31]
Garrison Davis
They're in here to destroy the country. How would the President negotiate with people like that?
- [107:37]
Lele Pons
I'm not sure you can. And I think that's why the President is being so bold in warning the American public against this communist takeover of the Democrats. And as Ronald Reagan perfectly stated stated, freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. If these communists are given a chance at power here in Washington D.C. if they retake the majority in Washington away from the Republicans, we will be heading down a communist takeover.
- [108:00]
Garrison Davis
This concern by Jesse Waters of Fox News was also the topic of a Axio story from a few days after the New York primary with quotes from quote unquote centrist Democrat lawmakers threatening that there's quote unquote going to be a war if the new members of Congress try to utilize their block to win policy concessions with one lawmaker calling the incoming members, quote, bomb throwers, not problem solvers. The idea is that if the Democrats win a small House majority in the next election, the growing coalition of democratic, socialist and left wing populist lawmakers could leverage their needed votes to get concessions from party leadership and wield an outsized influence on the party. In this story, Axios wrote that left wing House reps, quote, moving on block would be able to kill party line votes to get their demands met, much like the far right House Freedom Caucus has done the past few years. Progressive Reptila. Ramirez of Illinois is quoted in the piece saying that the Congressional Progressive Caucus has a, quote, responsibility to be the strongest voter bloc, to take a stand not for the establishment, but for working people who send us to fight like hell for them. Threats of war from centrist Democrats and cries of communism from Fox News and President Trump show a real fear of the growing momentum DSA is having both as an organization and as and in the ballot box and the fear that this kind of politics won't be contained to big cities in blue states. Here is Mamdani being interviewed on ABC shortly after the June primary. And you knocked off two Democratic incumbent members of Congress. Is this, is this like a unique moment in New York or is this the beginning of a national movement?
- [109:59]
Raisa Freiheit
I think we are seeing a hunger that is not just felt by New Yorkers, but frankly by Americans from coast to coast for a new kind of politics, one that puts working people at the heart of it. I think for far too long, what we as a party have been able to say to New Yorkers who are struggling is simply to explain why they're struggling, not actually offer them a vision for how to make life better. And these candidates, Brad, Darieliza, Claire, they ran campaigns that spoke to working people and that said life in the nation's market, most expensive city need not be this way any longer. And I can't wait to have them as partners in D.C. in that work.
- [110:33]
Garrison Davis
We'll be right back with Mike Johnson after this ad break. Three days after the DSA sweep in New York, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson gave the keynote address press at the Faith and Freedom Conference, where he essentially did free propaganda for the dsa.
- [111:02]
Mia Wong
The dsa, the Democrat Socialists of America. Sounds so innocuous, doesn't it? No, it doesn't. Don't say that. This is their platform. Listen, this, this is actually quotes from their platform that they published, I think, about a day or two ago. You can find this on the Internet. Okay, here's just a sample of what they're about. They put this on paper, they're saying the quiet things out loud, abolish the Electoral College. Replace the two party system with a multi party democracy. Expand the House of Representatives. Implement proportional representation and ranked choice voting in all elections. Abolish well, establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people. Abolish ICE and grant amnesty for all.
- [111:50]
Garrison Davis
This isn't the quiet part out loud. This is Democratic Socialism 101. Empowering workers by increasing democratic control of our own government and the unaccountable corporations that rule over our lives. But here's more from Mike Johnson.
- [112:05]
Mia Wong
End sanctions on Cuba, Venezuela and Iran. Free Palestine. Quote For a free Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. End all military and economic aid to Israel. Prosecute US and Israeli leaders responsible for the genocide in Gaza. Abolish the carceral state. Quote Redirect police and prison funding to public services as steps towards abolishing the carceral forces of the capitalist state. Y'.
- [112:35]
Sam J
All.
- [112:35]
Mia Wong
It goes on and on and on. Defund the Department of War. Replace the President and the Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen and subordinate to Congress which they're hoping to take over. And the last one is abolish the Senate. Now some of you may agree with that, but don't just leave that one there.
- [112:53]
James Stout
Okay?
- [112:54]
Mia Wong
It's fine. I'm kidding.
- [112:56]
Garrison Davis
The fact that the sitting House speaker felt the need to address these proposals signifies a serious overton window shift, an opening up of the conversation on ending inhumane sanctions, reforming the Supreme Court, defunding the Pentagon and abolishing the uniquely undemocratic institution of the Senate. Will that last one happen anytime soon? Probably not, but Mike Johnson apparently believes this is a topic worthy of public debate. This past Tuesday, Mike Johnson announced that the Pentagon is requesting an additional $350 billion.
- [113:37]
Mia Wong
You've heard the President talk about how he wants to effectively double the funding for national defense. Look, we live in dangerous times. We're fighting communism on our own shores and we're fighting evil terrorists and tyrants around the world.
- [113:49]
Garrison Davis
Meanwhile, also this past Tuesday, DSA released the full version of their new national platform, which is what Mike Johnson was quoting from. This platform is titled Workers Deserve More and beyond what Mike Johnson has already helpfully outlined. It also contains paid family leave for all workers, a 32 hour workweek, a living minimum wage, canceling student debt, universal health care, building publicly owned social housing, honoring all treaties and tribal sovereignty, finishing reconstruction, ending mass incarceration and police immunity, a federal jobs guarantee, publicly owned energy and transit infrastructure, ending the US war machine, a free Palestine, ending all aid to Israel prosecuting those responsible for The Gaza genocide, D.C. statehood, getting rid of lobbyists, dark money, and Citizens United and publicly financing all elections while expanding and protecting voter rights and ending voter suppression and of course, abolishing ice. You can read the full platform in more detail@program.dsausa.org, i'll link it below. It's not very long and quite easy to read. It starts with a preamble to contextualize the goals of the organization and the purpose of an ambitious platform in our current moment. I'll quote from a section of that preamble now. If we lived in a classless society and governed ourselves, we could freely build a world without war or poverty. We could build a world where no one suffers for their race, gender or religion and everyone is free, equal and cared for. Building this world is the guiding star of our movement. When we labor for our common good instead of private profit, we can all have a secure and dignified life and use our time and talents how we wish to achieve this future. Our class must organize the Democratic Socialist of America is building a party whose goal is a democratic society of the working class. Our enemies are not just individual bosses, but the entire global system of capital. Not just this or that cop, judge or president, but the entire anti democratic structure of our society. We are workers fighting to transform society to win the battle for democracy, draft a new constitution and create a democratic socialist republic. DSA has written this program for ending capitalist oligarchy and creating a real democracy. Some of these demands may be won under our current system, but we know complete victory will require building a new society from the ground up. We push these demands to their furthest extent today so that we can fight for their fullest realization in a socialist future. Unquote. Meanwhile, let's check in on the liberals on CNN's State of the Union. Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro was asked about the recent DSA electoral wins.
- [116:46]
Lele Pons
Democratic voters in New York chose three
- [116:50]
Garrison Davis
candidates backed by Zoram Mamdani, far left, and Democratic socialist candidates. What message do you take from that about where your party is?
- [116:59]
Cooper Quinton
You know those were races in individual districts in a whole other state. I think you're seeing very different looking Congressional races and certainly different Democratic candidates here in Pennsylvania.
- [117:12]
Garrison Davis
That's an interesting point being made by Governor Shapiro, who seems to be ignoring the fact that the first Congressional primary win for a Democratic socialist this year was in Pennsylvania's third District this past May. Democratic Socialist Chris Robb beat a candidate backed by the retiring incumbent, a candidate who compared calling the genocide in Gaza a genocide to saying the N word. But Josh Shapiro is not the only one trying to argue that DSA's success is limited to places like New York. Pundits have been saying the same thing ever since Momdani won the primary over a year ago. But following the slate sweep last month, some Democratic lawmakers have tried to minimize the increasing trend of socialist candidates beating both moderate and sometimes even progressive politicians. The reaction from Democrats has been something. You've had some prominent Democrats dismissive of what happened here. I mean, you had Senator Blumenthal say the effort to nationalize New York is going to fail. What happened in New York will be really irrelevant by the time of the elections in November. Hakeem Jeffries basically said the same thing, saying that this is not indicative of what needs to happen in November. What do you make of that?
- [118:28]
Raisa Freiheit
You know, I think that when you ask Americans what they're feeling in this moment amidst reports of an economy that's strengthening, of a stock market that's booming, you will hear an exhaustion and having to try and make ends meet every single day, every single week, every single month, and that it's getting harder and harder. And so a message of fighting for working people, we don't have to nationalize that message. That is a national message, since it's a national crisis. And for far too long, all we've had to say as a party is opposition to the current administration. What do we have to say beyond that? And what these candidates offer is a vision that extends beyond the midterms. It extends beyond 2028. It speaks to what makes so many of us proud to be Democrats. It speaks to a vision that goes back to a New Deal understanding of what working people deserve. And I'll tell you that for too long, that kind of politics, you can only find it in history books. And we need to bring it back to the present day.
- [119:24]
Garrison Davis
On cnn, Josh Shapiro addressed his disagreements with one particular candidate in New York, Chevalier, saying, quote, her district voted for her, but I have profound differences from that particular candidate. And she's not someone who seemingly I would agree with on many things or that we share similar values. She ran on the Democratic ticket. I guess she is a socialist. Her voters in that district determined that she was the one they wanted representing her.
- [119:52]
Cooper Quinton
I think what is important are the people who are making a lot of noise, who are engaging in these performative politics, have to now figure out how to deliver results. It's one thing to speak in platitudes during a campaign. It's a whole other thing to actually deliver for people who are genuinely hurting, who genuinely need to see cost of living go down, meaning their ability to make ends meet, you know, go up. Fixing a broken health care system, reining in excesses, being able to, you know, give people the promise of liberty that we've talked about. I think we as a party need to find our way toward candidates who actually can deliver for people and make their lives better.
- [120:35]
Garrison Davis
I'm curious who Shapiro thinks such candidates may be. Because the 2024 election showed that voters lost faith that national Dems could deliver any of those things. Whereas in just six months, Democratic Socialist Zora Mamdani delivered free childcare, a two year rent freeze, a new plan to make buses faster, all while balancing the budget and overcoming a $12 billion deficit left by Eric Adams.
- [121:03]
Raisa Freiheit
We don't have to ask ourselves what life looks like if a socialist wins. I won last November. And over the course of these last six months, what we've delivered for working people are the very things we were told were impossible. We've delivered free childcare for two year olds for the first time in New York City history. We've delivered tens of millions of dollars back to tenants who were taken advantage of by bad landlords. We've delivered 165,000 potholes being paved. And we've done all of these things while also delivering the lowest recorded crime in our city's history. That's what it looks like to have democratic socialism. And what you're seeing is that New Yorkers experienced this for six months and made the decision that they wanted to see more of it on the national stage as well.
- [121:43]
Garrison Davis
Governor Shapiro has said the Democratic Party is going through, quote, a battle over what we believe in, unquote. And I think that's true. But moderates can never seem to really express what they believe in beyond opposition to both Trump and the Democratic socialists. Meanwhile, Mamdani is on the news, clearly articulating what he believes in and why the party should believe in it too.
- [122:09]
Raisa Freiheit
I think it has to stand for working people, and I think it has to be willing to fight for working people. And I think that there are some who are offended by the prospect of a party that knows who it fights for and goes every day to work for that. Because what we've seen over many years is, is a willingness to not only explain away the status quo, but frankly, even to look to benefit from the status quo. And that's not what working people are looking for from our party.
- [122:34]
Garrison Davis
Can a Democratic Socialist get elected president?
- [122:37]
Raisa Freiheit
I think a Democratic Socialist can get elected anywhere across this country for any position. What I think we need to bring is a focus on working people, and
- [122:44]
Garrison Davis
that's the direction that the party should go in in terms of selecting a candidate for 2028.
- [122:49]
Raisa Freiheit
I think the direction that the party should go in is how best to fight for working people. I think we need to have a platform and a vision that doesn't sound as if it was cooked up by consultants, but instead one that you would say in response to someone who's asking, why can't I afford my rent? Why can't I afford my groceries? Why can't I afford my childcare? We need to make clear who we stand for, how we're going to stand for them, and that we're actually willing to fight for them when the going gets tough.
- [123:14]
Garrison Davis
As Red Scare style rhetoric has surged on the right, we've begun to see more establishment Dems team up with conservative media and Republican politicians in trying to take down the DSA to protect their shared class interests. This was already happening throughout the New York mayoral race last year, eventually leading to Trump endorsing Andrew Cuomo on the eve of the election. But as the DSA keeps building power and winning races across the country, so too will this bipartisan ruling class alliance continue to spread. Late last month, Democratic adviser James Carville went on Fox News to discuss the danger of Democratic socialism and the possibility of a party schism. Since then, Fox has been airing clips of Carville's own podcast where he attacks the DSA socialism surge is threatening to shake up the Democratic Party.
- [124:06]
Raisa Freiheit
Big wins from Ondani backed candidates in
- [124:09]
Garrison Davis
New York this week.
- [124:10]
Raisa Freiheit
Just the latest for the Democratic Socialists of America. Veteran Democratic strategist James Carville says it could be time to split.
- [124:18]
Garrison Davis
I actually do think it's time for Democrats to talk the S word schism. I really do. Everybody's always said, no, no, we're coalition, we're big tent and there's just some that I can't be in the same tent with. Later in that segment, Fox brought on a quote unquote Democratic strategist who worked under Andrew Cuomo to rail against socialists trying to hijack the party.
- [124:46]
Lele Pons
Now listen, I've been saying this for the last several months and trying to
- [124:50]
Daniel Kurd
sound the alarm on this.
- [124:51]
Lele Pons
These people are not Democrats, they are socialists. And what they've done is they have strategically in the last 10 years, since Bernie did his run in 2016, come up with a strategy in order to take over the Democratic Party. They very organized, they've been working on the local level. But make no mistake, these are not Democrats. They fundamentally do not believe in the same things as far as public safety, as far as the seizure of private property, as far as celebrating terrorism and stoking anti Semitism.
- [125:23]
Daniel Kurd
And so yes, big tent.
- [125:24]
Lele Pons
We've always been a big tent. No to hijack tent. And the reality, reality is they should start their own party and run there, but they know that won't be successful so they're trying to take over hours and it is a disaster.
- [125:36]
Garrison Davis
As already mentioned, moderate Democrats in the House are threatening quote, unquote war. And high level Democratic Party figures have been airing frustrations that DSA candidates are benefiting from running on the Democratic ballot line while seeking to fundamentally change the nature of the party itself. Itself. Former Chair of the DNC Jamie Harrison wrote, quote, I say this with no ill will or animosity. If you hate the Democratic Party, then please don't run for our nomination. Don't use our resources. Don't rely on our volunteers. Don't use our infrastructure. Don't ask Democrats to invest their time, money and energy into your campaign. Focus on building the party you actually support. Political parties aren't perfect, but they're built by millions of people who knock doors, make calls, organize meetings and fight for the values they believe in. If you don't believe in the party, then don't ask its members to carry you across the finish line. Unquote. Something that Jamie Harrison seems to not quite comprehend, which makes sense considering he's the former chair of the DNC under Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, is that party nominees are supposed to be chosen by the voters, not party elites. And these Democratic Socialist candidates are winning primaries despite strong opposition from state Democratic parties, entrenched political machines in city government and national establishment forces. The DSA has to out organize the Democratic establishment and overcome the power of corporate money just to get on the Democratic ballot line in November. Of course, if DDSA candidates ran third party, then people like Jaime Harrison would just claim that they're spoiler candidates helping the GOP win. There's no satisfying these people. They just have to be beaten. Vice Chair of the Manhattan Democratic Party Mariama James smeared all DSA members as having a quote, unquote white supremacist mindset after she lost the primary for State Assembly District 65 in Chinatown and the Lower east side to DSA candidate Iapa Sairetupac. In this same election cycle, the ADL and Congressman Josh Gottheimer attacked Mamdani for referring to dark money super PACs like APAC as quote, unquote, monsters in reference to the Gramsci quote, the old world is dying and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters. The ADL and Congressman Gottheimer claimed that both dark money and the word monster invoked anti Semitic tropes. Meanwhile, senior advisor to Adriano Espallat, chair of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, who was up against Chevalier, weaponized anti Haitian animus towards Chevalier, who is Afro Latina. And on a Spanish language podcast, Espiat's senior advisor said that Mamdani wanted to change the demographics of the Washington Heights neighborhood in Upper Manhattan by making it, quote, no longer be a bastion of the Dominican community, but instead a bastion of the Haitian Muslim community allied to him, unquote. Congressman Josh Gottheimer responded to the DSA's victory in the Democratic primary by continuing to attack the now Democratic nominees and released a centrist manifesto rebuking Communism. DSA asked Mayor Mamdani about the manifesto and the Democratic politicians like Gottheimer, who claim that socialists can't be Democrats. Josh Gottheimer, a Democratic member of Congress, says, many of us believe, as do I, if you're a socialist, you are not a Democrat. And in fact, they put out a manifesto today. Have you seen this thing?
- [129:26]
Raisa Freiheit
Sounds pretty socialist to me.
- [129:28]
Garrison Davis
It's not a Communist manifesto. It's a moderate manifesto saying, we are capitalist, not socialist. We believe in a growing, fair and competitive economy, entrepreneurship, ownership. I mean, this is a direct response. They've made it clear to what you did here on Tuesday.
- [129:44]
Raisa Freiheit
I mean, you know, that's great, but what's a party if not its voters? And I'm proud to sit in front of you as the mayor of our city, having received more than a million votes a little over, little less than a year ago. And when we're talking about these incredible congressional candidates, they won their races. And they won their races with a vision of what politics should be and one that actually speaks to working people. And for a lot of people who ask themselves, what does democratic socialism mean? And you can tell them the answer at a theoretical level, it's the choice to extend democracy from the ballot box the rest of their lives. But in terms of what it means, over these last seven months, we've seen a city with democratic socialist principles at the heart of it within our administration.
- [130:24]
Garrison Davis
We will return to discuss how communists and Ms. Rachel are teaming up to destroy America after this ad break. Last Saturday, Fox News ran a story about the DSA's new national platform Workers deserve more. Let's take a listen.
- [130:52]
Lele Pons
Fox News has obtained documents from the Democratic Socialists of America revealing the group's updated platform, which is even more radical than before. Now they plan to release this next week. Listen to this. The United States Senate eliminated. Gone. The President and the Supreme Court replaced. The Department of War defunded all immigrants given amnesty. That is the plan.
- [131:18]
Garrison Davis
The rest of the Fox report tried to paint DSA as being driven by anarchists, Marxists and crazy communists who want to destroy the country. The report highlighted a few of the niche caucuses within DSA that focus on anti imperialism, promote anti electoralism and explicitly push communism. Later on in this segment, former White House deputy chief of staff and Trump's current top electoral adviser James Blair joined the program to discuss the communist menace.
- [131:51]
Lele Pons
James, this is what you're up against in the midterms and we keep hearing it's a New York problem. Except here we go. There are DSA candidates in Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, New Hampshire. So what is your plan to defeat these radicals?
- [132:04]
Garrison Davis
Well, I think we just have to
- [132:05]
Cooper Quinton
bring their issues to the American people
- [132:07]
Garrison Davis
and the American people are going to reject them. Let's talk about the views that they're actually espousing and what they want to bring to the country.
- [132:14]
Raisa Freiheit
You said it.
- [132:15]
Garrison Davis
As they say in their documents, no amnesty for all illegal immigrants, no deportations at all.
- [132:21]
Cooper Quinton
Not even the criminals.
- [132:22]
Garrison Davis
Let me think. When was the last time an unpopular incumbent party failed to address economic issues affecting working class voters and just tried to hold on to power by fear mongering about the opposition's platform? Oh yeah, 2024 when the Democrats tried and failed spectacularly to campaign on stopping Project 2025. But now the tables are turned. So by all means Mr. Blair, don't try to offer an actual alternative platform that improves workers lives. Just tell them all about the DSA's platform instead. Especially when ICE is historically unpopular and can't seem to not murder someone every week. Believe it or not, this Fox News segment actually ended by talking about the threat posed by evil far left communist and children's educational YouTuber Ms. Rachel.
- [133:12]
Lele Pons
Let's remind our viewers who Ms. Rachel is. If your kids do not watch her like mine do not. This is Ms. Rachel. Are you guys afraid to take on Ms. Rachel?
- [133:33]
Raisa Freiheit
I would love to take on Ms. Rachel.
- [133:35]
Garrison Davis
It'll be the end of her show
- [133:36]
Cooper Quinton
which would be a service to America.
- [133:38]
Garrison Davis
My kids and I have four under
- [133:39]
Mia Wong
the age of six.
- [133:40]
Garrison Davis
They also don't watch her. She's radically far left. Her show is really about indoctrinating children. And honestly, if that's the fight we
- [133:47]
Cooper Quinton
have to have, I'm happy to have it.
- [133:48]
Garrison Davis
No problem. We will beat her like a drum. Yeah, that sure sounds like a message that will resonate with voters. Data for Progress ran a survey last month asking over 2,000 likely voters what actors are most harmful to our society and the economy. At number one was billionaires, number two, corporate landlords, three, sports gambling, four, artificial intelligence, and five, cryptocurrency. The Republican Party was found to be the seventh most harmful and the Democratic Party was the ninth. So despite popular opposition to things that DSA candidates are specifically trying to address, Trump seems to believe that just screaming communism will stymie the growth of democratic socialism and scare voters away from voting in their class.
- [134:40]
Q
Interest liberal became so tarnished, but now it's communist. You know, they say social Democrats, no social Democrat is a communist. All right, just so you know, there's no. So if you look at the people that are running, it's crazy what they're doing. But we won't. We'll never let that happen to this country. Can't happen to the country. You can't have. There's no appetite for it.
- [135:01]
Garrison Davis
If there's no appetite for it, how come Bernie Sanders and Zoran Mamdani are the two most popular sitting politicians in the country? How come one in 10 Mamdani voters voted for Trump in 2024? That's over 100,000 voters who backed Trump and then a year later voted for Mamdani. Candidates like Zoran are not just appealing to a sizable portion of people who voted Trump, but are also pulling in new voters who might, for the first time in their lives, actually have something to vote for. In New York City, around 260,000 people registered to vote in 2025, more than double that of the last mayoral election. In 2021, almost two thirds of those new voters were under the age of 30. A Cato poll from late June found that among millennials, 50% were favorable towards capitalism, but 40% were favorable to socialism, and 29% were favorable towards communism. These percentages total over 100 because this was a multiple choice selection. But the numbers among Gen Z are even more striking. According to this Cato poll, 53% of Gen Z respondents were favorable towards socialism, 45% to capitalism, and 38% to communism. The New York Times ran an article this past Tuesday about how support for NYC DSA candidates in the last election was not divided by race, but rather by age, with older voters tending to support establishment candidates, while younger voters backed insurgent challengers. A YouGov poll from June 29 showed that the favorability of socialism was at 58% among Democrats and just 11% unfavorable. Among independents, socialism was 34% unfavorable to 30% favorable and among Republicans 71% unfavorable to 11% favorable. An echelon poll from early July asked Democrats should the DSA have a larger or smaller influence on the Democratic Party than they currently do, 46% of Democrats said the DSA should have a larger influence, 21% said smaller, and 33% were unsure. Following the DSA's congressional victories last month, there have been multiple think pieces in the Atlantic about how the DSA has gotten too radical and abandoned its Social Democratic roots and how quote unquote Democrats became great by fighting the left in the post war period when liberals fought off a communist incursion into the Democratic Party led by Henry Wallace, former vice president to fdr. An opinion piece in the Washington Post penned by the president and Executive Vice president of the centrist think tank Third Way argued that, quote, DSA's radicalism makes it not a faction to be appeased, but a movement to be opposed. They insist that democratic socialist ideas are quote unquote electoral poison and claim that, quote, far left governance has also been a failure while ignoring the biggest, most recent example of far left governance New York City. On first glance, this piece in the Washington Post presents a contradictory problem that DSA will hand Republicans perfect attack ad fodder that will tank Democrats electoral chances, especially in swing states. But on the other hand, they believe the biggest threat posed by DSA is that their candidates are continuing to win elections and may thus transform the makeup of the Democratic Party. Or, as the authors write, the DSA's commitment is to, quote, hollowing out the Democratic Party from within by primary sitting Democrats and replacing them with quote unquote ideological zealots. To this point, the authors directly compare DSA's wave of success to the Republican Tea Party movement from around 2010 that reshaped the GOP and set the stage for Trump to come rolling in and slingshot the Republicans into power. They wrote that for years the Tea Party quote looked like self sabotage. Then a charismatic outsider arrived, harnessed the energy the Tea Party fomented and took over the Republican Party. Democrats who assume a takeover can't happen have learned nothing from the death of the party of Reagan. The DSA is building a left wing ideological movement waiting for its standard bearer unquote so the DSA is both electoral poison but also risks being so popular and so successful that democratic socialism could take over the Democratic Party. Despite all the concern trolling, the author's real fear isn't that DSA's radical rhetoric will sabotage Democrats ability to win elections, but that the DSA's recent victories could very well lead to a Democratic party with workers at the forefront. And such a party would threaten the class interests of think take ghouls like those at Third Way. One of the biggest results of DSA's electoral strategy, beyond winning seats, is reorienting American politics back to a class based understanding of politics. Whether that's framed in red scare terms like capitalism versus Communism, more sloppulist rhetoric like regular people versus the quote unquote Epstein class or simply the working class against the bipartisan elites. The DSA's momentum and this new red scare point to a return of class struggle politics. And this is the result of Democratic Socialists, especially the New York chapter of dsa, who have been slowly building power the past decade, experimenting winning local races and increasing their organizational capacity. After the 2024 election, the Democratic Party was in a uniquely compromised state. Then state assembly members Zormadani and the DSA seized on this opportunity to redefine what democratic politics are, show that they can win, and demonstrate that they can succeed at governing and advancing the interests of the working class in the biggest city in the country. While reacting to Mayor Ramdani's Independence Day speech, Steve Bannon cautioned against dismissing the threat posed by Mamdani. This is quite serious.
- [142:00]
Mia Wong
If you dismiss this guy and dismiss
- [142:02]
Garrison Davis
the people around him and dismiss the money in back of him, you are
- [142:07]
Cooper Quinton
missing something that's more powerful than Obama. And it's not just this guy, it's
- [142:13]
Garrison Davis
the team around him. Of course, Steve Bannon cannot understand that something like Mamdani isn't the result of big money, but rather regular people, individual donors and 100,000 volunteers who actually believe in fighting for a positive political project. The next major test of that project will be in Wisconsin, where Democratic Socialist candidate Francesca Hong is running for governor. If she wins her upcoming primary. Come November, this election will be the biggest test case to see if Democratic Socialists can organize and win statewide in a swing state. See you on the other side.
- [143:03]
Ari Chambers
What's up fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [143:06]
Sam J
Hey, what's up y'?
- [143:06]
P (IWW member)
All?
- [143:07]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [143:08]
Ari Chambers
And we're the hosts of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart Women's sports.
- [143:13]
Sam J
Because, let's be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.
- [143:17]
Ari Chambers
So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.
- [143:24]
Sam J
My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating?
- [143:28]
Ari Chambers
The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire
- [143:32]
Sam J
timeline, and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.
- [143:40]
Ari Chambers
Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.
- [143:45]
Sam J
Shout out to you, Naomi, you get the Palm.
- [143:46]
Ari Chambers
Naomi, you get the palm for that.
- [143:48]
Sam J
Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [144:03]
Fred Armisen
Hey, Portlandia fans.
- [144:05]
Kerry Brownstein
Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here, you
- [144:07]
Fred Armisen
know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken.
- [144:13]
Kerry Brownstein
We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves. To tell you about Podlandia. Ao rewatch our brand new podcast.
- [144:21]
Fred Armisen
Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process.
- [144:34]
Kerry Brownstein
How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it.
- [144:39]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [144:52]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised. Improvise not just words, but a song.
- [144:57]
Garrison Davis
Well, I thought he was gonna write.
- [144:58]
Mia Wong
I thought you were all gonna write a song.
- [144:59]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that.
- [145:02]
Fred Armisen
Listen to Podlandia. Ayo. Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [145:15]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Paris Hilton. Shakira, Luke and Yerin Samira E. Gracie. I'm so excited.
- [145:22]
Daniel Kurd
On a bouncy bed, you have surprises, many surprises.
- [145:26]
Lele Pons
Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life.
- [145:30]
Jake Brennan
What up?
- [145:33]
Lele Pons
Hola, amiga.
- [145:34]
Garrison Davis
Hola, mejor amiga.
- [145:35]
Lele Pons
Hola. What up?
- [145:42]
Ari Chambers
Yes.
- [145:49]
Lele Pons
You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst.
- [145:52]
Garrison Davis
It's lemonade.
- [146:00]
Lele Pons
This is sweet. 305 listen to sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here.
- [146:17]
Garrison Davis
To whoever's responsible, you're the problem.
- [146:21]
Sam J
If you come over here to play games, I' ma check you.
- [146:25]
Tabby
Okay?
- [146:26]
Sam J
If you do some in the news that don't sound good, I'mma play you.
- [146:31]
Lele Pons
Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast.
- [146:36]
Garrison Davis
You're the Problem with Yamaneika. Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was.
- [146:41]
Lele Pons
New episodes weekly every Wednesday as part
- [146:43]
Garrison Davis
the of of my new network, the Dear Chelsea Network.
- [146:46]
Sam J
If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of
- [146:49]
Garrison Davis
men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. So join Yamaneika.
- [146:55]
Lele Pons
Each episode as she answers one question.
- [146:57]
Garrison Davis
Who's the problem?
- [146:58]
Sam J
I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with yamaneika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
- [147:06]
Garrison Davis
wherever you get your podcasts. This is it could Happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by Mia Wong. This episode we are covering the week of July 8th to July 15th. A totally different war in Iran has. Has started and ICE has killed two people this week. James Stout will have a segment on that later this episode. But let's start with a few small things. Mitch McConnell has entered into a pact with the demon Mephistopheles to extend his life in exchange for the death of another. In other news, four term Senator Lindsey Graham has died following what his office calls a quote, unquote, brief and sudden illness.
- [148:10]
Garrett
I want to. I want to take two seconds to speak ill of the ban. So I found this out from Sophie messaging us in the group chat. And I fully read the title of the article and clicked on it and I fully read the words Lindsey Graham. And my brain went, well, Obviously it's Mitch McConnell.
- [148:26]
Garrison Davis
Someone made a typo or something in the headline.
- [148:28]
Garrett
It wasn't even like I thought it was a typo. It's like, like fully. My brain refused to process that it was Lindsey Graham instead of Mitch McConnell.
- [148:35]
Garrison Davis
What a bait and switch, though. Like an incredible, incredible week in Senate politics.
- [148:40]
Garrett
Yeah. Oh, my God.
- [148:41]
Garrison Davis
Completely wild.
- [148:43]
Garrett
The second thing I want to say ill of him was there's a very funny Axios thing where he's talking about how he's not going to go to the hospital and he can't die because he has to do, like, tariffs and then also specifically he has to do Israel, Saudi Arabia normalization.
- [148:57]
Garrison Davis
He has to establish. Yeah, Israel's, Israel's Saudi relations.
- [149:02]
Garrett
This is, I think, how, how he should go out being remembered, which is try trying to broker an alliance between, like, the world's worst monarchy and, like, one of the world's worst democracies, two
- [149:13]
Garrison Davis
of the most evil countries in the
- [149:14]
Garrett
world, like, two of the top five, which is really impressive right now.
- [149:19]
Garrison Davis
We're up there, too.
- [149:20]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [149:21]
Garrison Davis
On Saturday night, EMS responded to a call for, quote, unquote, cardiac arrest at Graham's Capitol Hill home, according to police scanner audio. And on Sunday, Graham's office announced the preliminary cause of death was a rupture of his aorta due to a hardening of his arteries. That Same day, Mitch McConnell posted a photo holding today's newspaper. On Monday, Trump went on Newsmax to say that Graham's death actually wasn't related to his artery problems and instead he died of heart complications. Quote, a certain part of his body literally blew up. Let's play the clip. You have any suspicions or worries? Do you think we know the whole story about his death? Well, I think we do.
- [150:11]
Q
We've had great doctors and they talked
- [150:13]
Garrison Davis
about, you know, a certain part of his body literally blew up, and that's
- [150:17]
Q
a condition I believe his father had also.
- [150:20]
Garrison Davis
His father also had the part of body blows up condition.
- [150:27]
Garrett
God, I. Part of me hopes that there is a hell and that Lindsey Graham is looking up, like, in hell and seeing that this is what Donald Trump, the man who he just, like, turned his entire career into backing, is saying about him.
- [150:42]
Garrison Davis
On Tuesday, Trump addressed some whirling conspiracy theories around Graham's death, whether or not he was poisoned by the Russians or other nefarious acts may have taken place. And Trump just said, quote, I know there's all sorts of conspiracy theories going around, and I think the FBI is wasting their time if they are doing that. Unquote. Now, that's in reference to a post made by Cash Fattel following Graham's death, which was mostly like an ordinary, like, memorial statement. But curiously, it ended with this sentence, quote, the FBI is assisting local authorities and has made every necessary resource available, unquote. I think this is Patel just being a kind of like, A moron.
- [151:32]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [151:32]
Garrison Davis
I was talking. I was talking with Molly Conger about this earlier this week, and. And she said that Patel often makes kind of posts like this following, like, big national news just because he, like, is still caught in, like, the content creator mindset of just. You have to, like, comment on everything and, like, relate it back to yourself in some way. Now, the FBI did, like, go through, like, Graham's home, and, like, that's. That's pretty ordinary. But. But I think a post like this is, Yeah, I don't think indicating a larger conspiracy or foul play at work and is kind of just a. An oversight made by Patel. Not really thinking about the consequences of his actions.
- [152:12]
Garrett
Yeah, and, like, part of the consequences is that, like, a huge portion of the right is convinced that he was killed by some nebulous force. There's like 5,000 different unhinged theories as to who killed him or whatever. But, like, no, he's just old.
- [152:26]
Garrison Davis
No, his body just literally blew up. Now, following Lindsey Graham's death, his sister, Darlene Graham Norton was appointed by South Carolina Governor Henry McMaster to serve the remainder of Graham's term, which ends in January. I didn't know you could just do that. You can just call if. Oh, yeah, well, I. I know you. I know the governor appoints, but just calling up the dead senator's sister to be like, hey, do you want to fill in?
- [152:57]
Garrett
There was some election where, like, Ellen Ashcroft lost an election to a dead guy, and I think they put his spouse in office or something afterwards. So, like, I guess there is precedent for this. Extremely baffling shit.
- [153:09]
Garrison Davis
Pretty remarkable. Lindsey Graham had actually just won the Republican nomination for his fifth term. But now South Carolina will hold a special election next month to select a new nominee. Nancy Mace has thrown her hat into the ring. We'll see if anything comes to that. So week was off to a kind of an okay start, I guess. In other news, in a 308 to 117 vote, the House passed legislation to make Daylight Savings Time permanent nationwide. The bill supported by Trump, and if passed by the Senate, it would end the twice a year clock changes. Pack it up, folks. Hunter Biden sat down with Nick Fuentes on Andrew Callahan's Channel 5 podcast this week.
- [153:55]
Garrett
Oh, God.
- [153:57]
Garrison Davis
Legitimate nightmare. Blunt rotation. Yeah, I've never been on the pro Hunter Biden train. No, because he is. Obviously his interests are in no way related to mine or that of, you know, regular people, but hopefully this will.
- [154:13]
Q
Will.
- [154:13]
Garrison Davis
Will stop the whole Hunter Biden Stan community online.
- [154:17]
Garrett
Yeah, I also just want to mention because I think people, I don't know who this guy is or remember it, but yeah, there have been a series of sexual assault allegations against Andrew Callahan and also. Yeah, part of the nightmare blunt rotation.
- [154:33]
Garrison Davis
Andrew Callahan is 100% part of Nightmare blunt rotation.
- [154:37]
Garrett
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I just, I just, I just, I just want to make it clear that he is. This is absolutely his crowd.
- [154:43]
Garrison Davis
In some better news, the Trump administration is abandoning a proposed rule change to block Medicare and Medicaid funding to hospitals that provide gender affirming care to trans youth. Over 30,000 comments were submitted following the proposal last December. Medical groups like the American Medical association and the Children's Hospital association pushed back on the proposal. The vast majority of those 30,000 comments were against this proposed rule change. This is good. This is a good thing. This was a big threat that prompted hospitals to comply in advance and they should not have done that. And that is bad. And we still don't know if those hospitals will reinstate care.
- [155:23]
Garrett
Yeah, yeah.
- [155:25]
Garrison Davis
And they should still be pressured.
- [155:26]
Raisa Freiheit
Yep.
- [155:26]
Garrison Davis
And obviously the administration is still going after trans youth care specifically. They're still trying to go after patient records and are targeting specific hospitals with criminal subpoenas. Not all of the subpoenas have been successful, but this is good news about this proposed rule change.
- [155:44]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [155:45]
Garrison Davis
On Friday, Fergie Chambers, self styled, quote unquote, anti imperialist communist and multi million dollar heir to the Cox family fortune, was detained in Ibiza, Spain under requests from the US Justice Department, who is attempting to extradite Chambers back to the States and is being charged with international money laundering with intent to provide material support to foreign terrorist organizations, likely Hamas. The past few years, Chambers has donated millions to pro Palestinian causes and has been globetrotting the past few months. This is a political prosecution. Whether or not you like Chambers or disagree with parts of his politics. This is probably a bad thing and a bad sign for pro Palestinian politics across the United States.
- [156:38]
Garrett
Oh, yeah.
- [156:39]
Garrison Davis
Spain has like 40 days to decide if they're going to comply with the extradition request. And Chambers has a bail hearing on Thursday to see if he will remain in detention. Speaking of international far left terrorism, on Thursday, July 16, Marco Rubio will be holding an international meeting at the State Department focused on the threat of antifa and the, quote, resurgence of transnational far left terrorism. According to the Washington Post, Ford senior ministers from more than 60 countries were invited, though many will be unlikely to attend due to the meeting's vague aims and short notice. One European diplomat told the Washington Post they were confused as to why they were invited, quote, we don't have antifa. Another said, quote, our law enforcement authorities have not focused on left wing terrorism because that is not considered a high priority threat in our country, unquote. The Washington Post also reported that some U.S. officials will not be attending this meeting out of growing fear that the increased targeting of far left activists may backfire on conservatives once Trump is out of office.
- [158:02]
Garrett
Live in fear, motherfuckers.
- [158:07]
Garrison Davis
So we are recording this before this summit is going to take place. If something comes of it, we may report on it later on.
- [158:14]
Tabby
Yeah.
- [158:15]
Garrison Davis
In more Mark Rubio news, Secretary of State Mark Rubio announced on Monday that the United States is launching a campaign to dismantle the International Criminal Court, which Rubio says threatens American sovereignty.
- [158:31]
Garrett
We're not even in it.
- [158:32]
Q (IWW member)
We're not even in the icc.
- [158:34]
Garrett
What are we doing here?
- [158:35]
Garrison Davis
Now the, the ICC has, has attracted the ire of conservatives.
- [158:39]
Garrett
Yeah, yeah.
- [158:40]
Garrison Davis
Ever since its inception.
- [158:42]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [158:42]
Garrison Davis
But this week, Rubio announced the launch of a whole of government effort that will use, quote, all the tools at our government's disposal to take on the court. Reuters reported that options being considered include, quote, travel bans, visa restrictions, increased sanctions against the ICC and affiliated organizations, and diplomatic pressure on other nations to withdraw from the International Criminal Court, unquote. Rubio penned an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal which is behind a paywall.
- [159:14]
Garrett
Incredible.
- [159:16]
Garrison Davis
Explaining, quote, why we're dismantling the International Criminal Court. And I'll quote from, from the piece here, quote. Last year, major activist groups urged high ranking international officials, quote, to take immediate and meaningful action against the Trump administration's deportation of violent criminals to El Salvador. Months later, a former ICC chief prosecutor declared President Trump's strikes against narco terrorists amounted to a, quote, unquote, crime against humanity and should be treated as such under international law. A line that was echoed by United nations leaders and major leftist non governmental organizations, Democratic Party officials and politicians. In March, the Washington based Democracy for the Arab World now urged the Iranian regime to request an ICC investigation of quote, unquote, apparent war crimes committed by American personnel, unquote.
- [160:12]
Garrett
War crimes enjoyer hates the people who every once in a blue moon sort of do something about war crimes, guys, huh?
- [160:19]
Garrison Davis
Yeah. So, I mean, and this shows that there is at least some level of fear in the Trump administration or the State Department that strikes on boats off the coast of Venezuela, disappearing immigrants into an El Salvadorian prison and strikes on civilian infrastructure and civilians in Iran could result in at least some sort of pressure being applied on the US from the icc. Rubio wants to get ahead of that in some way. Yeah, I, I don't think this will be very successful. The US doesn't really hold much diplomatic power right now. This is kind of posturing. This is posturing that we've seen from Republican administrations before, especially in the 2010s, but I think this is interesting and worth noting. Lastly, one more small news item. Jake Tapper is a sniveling weasel, coward and fraud. On Sunday, Jake Tapper interviewed President Trump and let's take a look at his hard hitting questions. Iran has declared the Strait of Hormuz closed. Is that true, Mr. President?
- [161:22]
Q
It's open as far as we're concerned.
- [161:24]
Garrison Davis
Don't talk about it.
- [161:25]
Q
Talk about the reason that you asked me to speak. Okay.
- [161:28]
Garrison Davis
We appreciate your time, sir. Okay.
- [161:32]
Garrett
Oh boy.
- [161:33]
Garrison Davis
Incredible journalism on display at cnn. Topper finished this quote unquote interview by sucking off the President just a little bit more. Well, I know you don't want to
- [161:42]
Cooper Quinton
talk about any other issues out of
- [161:45]
Garrison Davis
respect for Lindsey Graham, but we would love to have you back sometime because I do have a lot of other questions for you, sir. Sure, we'll do that, we'll do that. Thank you for calling to have CNN go on a normal path and we'll do that. Well, I'm on a normal path right here, sir, and I appreciate your time and thank you for calling in. Okay, thanks a lot, so much. I'm a good little boy, Mr. President. Please, please, please like me. I've been good. I won't challenge you on anything, I swear.
- [162:11]
Garrett
The most astonishing part of this is like all of this, like, like sniveling, like bootlicking. Didn't even get him an in person interview. This is a phone call. Like, come on.
- [162:22]
Garrison Davis
I'm no fan of the man, but recently he has been appealing to Trump a lot more. And to me it kind of seems like he's trying out for David Ellison in case the Paramount WB deal goes through and that results in Barry Weiss or someone of that ilk being put in charge of cnn. So I, I think that in part Tapper is trying to demonstrate to those people that he will play ball. Whereas Cooper, Anderson Cooper has, has said if that happens, he will not work for someone like Barry Weiss as he is left 60 minutes which has been put under Barry Weiss's control, though he remains at cnn. That's all for our first segment. We will come back with a special report from James Stout on two ice killings and the new ish war with Iran. Okay, we are Back here's our segment from James Stout.
- [163:29]
James Stout
Hi everyone, it's me, James. I am calling in from Front Range in Colorado. Apologies if I sound tired. I have slept approximately three hours in the last 24. But I am joining you today to talk about two things which you can probably guess if you follow the news at all. I want to start out with Iran and then we're going to talk about it. Hostilities between the USA and Iran have resumed in a new and of course totally different war that in no way requires congressional authorization. The USA carried out four consecutive nights of strikes on the day of recording, which is Wednesday. They carried those out inside Iran while Iran once again attempted to close the Strait of Hormuz, firing on ships in the strait. In addition, the Iranians have struck Qatar, which has been a mediator in talks between them and the United States as well as other countries in the region and what it perceives to be U.S. allies and assets. At the time of recording on Wednesday night, we have gone from sporadic strikes to the full on beating of the drums of war. Again, the United States has returned to its previous blockade of Iran, according to centcom. CENTCOM Central Command is the military command that covers that region. CENTCOM also used one way surface drones to strike Iranian port facilities. This is the first documented use of these Corsair drones in this capacity. If you're thinking about how to picture this in your mind, think about a remote control boat, much bigger than your average toy boat, but much smaller than a warship. Size of a jet ski maybe. And these are laden with explosives, piloted to a target and then they, they detonate. Right? That's why they're called one way. I don't prefer the term suicide drone. It's not the drone that's dying, it's people. I don't like trying to muddy the waters with that. CENTCOM and the United States are still insisting that the Strait of Hormuz is open and they've claimed that they've shot down Iranian drones. But in the past week, Iran has hit Saudi flagged tankers in a Singaporean ship, hitting at least four vessels in the strait since last week. Iran has also claimed to have sunk a St. Kitts and Nebis flagged vessel on Tuesday. And they have once again returned with full ferocity to their campaign of attacks against Southern Kurdistan. And I just heard from friends in Southern Kurdistan today, I got dozens of messages of pictures of drones going overhead, drones being shot down, drones being intercepted, fires, etc. The United States, for its part, has also begun firing on ships today. It hit the motor tanker Belma with a Hellfire missile. They claim that they warned the vessel and it was heading in the direction of Carg Island. It didn't comply, so they disabled it by firing the missile into the smokestack. And for his part, Donald Trump, the president of the United States, has returned to making threats of war crimes. Here's a clip.
- [166:18]
Q
And then next week it gets really bad for them because next week comes the power plants, next week comes the bridges. We're going to knock out all their power plants.
- [166:30]
Tabby
All right.
- [166:30]
James Stout
And now we're going to move on to another really heartbreaking story. ICE has killed three Americans this week. And I'm going to start and go most in depth with a story of a 26 year old Mainer named Juan Sebastian Duran Guerrero. He was killed by ICE on Monday. Duran Guerrero was a Colombian citizen. He was in his car when agents seemed to have tried to stop him. A video released by the Portland Press Herald and shot on the scene shows Durang Guerrero's car slowly circling with agents standing on either side of the vehicle and not in its path. It appears that later ICE agents rammed the vehicle with their SUV and then shot Durang Guerrero. Further video which I just, I know I say this a lot, but like, you don't have to watch this to care. It's not a mark of how much you care or you don't care how much you traumatize yourself. You don't have to watch this to care with your whole heart. But video shows him pulling his body from the vehicle, throwing it on the floor and handcuffing him. There was not in the video what I perceived to be evidence of any immediate attempt to render aid. One witness has said she heard the agent yell weapon, according to Bangor Daily News. The Daily News reported that, quote, the witness said that one officer had walked away after the shooting and started to cry, but returned to the man and started administering CPR when the other officers said he has a pulse. Another witness related where I was saying I tried to stop and then the
- [168:01]
Raisa Freiheit
SUV hit him again and he tried to.
- [168:07]
Garrison Davis
And then that's when he stopped. ICE agent got out, tried to open the door and had a difficult time and eventually opened it and pulled the guy out. His face was bloody, his head was bloody. And I clearly heard the victim say I tried to stop. Clearly heard him say that the ICE agent that shot him walked right in front of me and of course I had emo. I was emotional and I just let him have it. And he looked at me and he said he tried to run me over
- [168:40]
Raisa Freiheit
or something to that that effect.
- [168:42]
Garrison Davis
I don't remember his exact words. There was another ICE agent with him
- [168:46]
Raisa Freiheit
that was trying to comfort him and they walked away.
- [168:50]
James Stout
It appears Durang Guerrero's family witnessed a shooting which is heartbreaking. Reporting in the Portland Press Herald said a woman and a young girl were holding hands and crying at the scene. She couldn't have been older than three, said a witness. Portland Press Herald spoke to this. This person who spoke to them has a two year old son. And I'm going to quote here from the Press Herald. She was still in her bluey pajamas just minutes after a man was shot and killed reportedly by federal immigration officials who missed in. That's the name of their source saw who she believes was the victim's daughter. She said the older of the two women yelled to law enforcement, you took her dad. You took her dad's father. Talking to Noticias Caracol in Colombia said. He had so many dreams to chase. I don't know why they did this. The Maine Immigrants Rights Commission and Presente migrant advocacy organization issued a statement confirming that Durang Guerrero was authorized to work in the United States and had been issued a Social Security number. I want to be clear about this and I want to be clear about why I'm being clear about this. I guess one status or lack thereof does not matter. The agents did not know Durang Guerrero's status, it seems main Senator Angus King, who is an independent senator, told the Associated Press that Durang Guerrero was not the target of an enforcement operation which was a revision to a statement to the contrary he'd made earlier that day. One status or lack of status should not determine if they can survive driving their car around, should not determine if a little girl grows up with or without a father. But if we're going to make claims about that status, as I have seen many people do on their monetized Twitter accounts, then we should try and make them correct. So let's be clear about this. He was authorized to work in the United States and he was issued a Social Security number according to the Maine Immigrants Rights Commission and presente. That does not mean he was a resident of the United States necessarily. It does not mean he was a citizen. This can happen during the asylum process, right? We've spoken about the work permit clock. We've spoken about how problematic the work permit clock is. We've spoken about how hard it is for people to get work permits. There are other processes too, which you can get a work permit in the process But I want to be clear about this because it's important that we tell the truth and all of the truth, right? But I also want to be clear that anybody making the claim that he was a resident is going about this wrong because his legal status is not what you're protecting. Being a human being is what you're protecting. No three year old girl should see her father shot in the street, much less by people who your taxes paid to shoot him. And so I want to be clear about that and I guess I hope I've been clear about why I'm being clear about that. King also confirmed the agents were not wearing body cameras at the time of the shooting. With this and the killing in Houston, which I'll get to it a little bit. CNN is reporting that ICE is largely stopping vehicle stops for now. The Atlantic reporting on this added quote, the officer involved in fatal shooting in Maine was hired by ICE this year from the Department of Veterans Affairs Police. According to a senior official, the officer has worked in federal law enforcement since 2017. The official said DHS issued the following statement. It's using this sort of like bullshit equivocal language that I would straight up fail someone in 100 level writing course for. But I'll read it out so you can hear what they say. On July 13, 2026 at approximately 7:00am Eastern Time, ICE was conducting a targeted surveillance on the last known address of an illegal alien with a final order of removal. An illegal alien departed the residence in a vehicle. ICE law enforcement attempted to conduct a vehicle stop. The vehicle attempted to flee the scene and fearing for public safety, an officer discharged his weapon. The driver of the vehicle was struck and emergency services were immediately contacted. He passed away from his injuries. The Biddeford Police Department FBI responded to a scene. DHS OIG has been notified and like all discharge of firearms, this will be investigated. It's a developing situation. We will update the public when more information is available. A couple of things I want to note. They didn't say that the officer feared for his life. They did say he feared for public safety. I think we should be wary of reading too much into these statements. So they're always so vague, wishy washy and equivocal. And it's just like cop speak has become almost its own language and especially in the statements that cops make after they kill so many. I do want to note that the Office of the Inspector General, DHS OIG that's referred to there is one of very few DHS assets that is not getting a huge budget bump. And as the agency grows, the OIG will very much struggle to keep up, especially if ICE continues killing Americans at this rate. Indeed, the White House last month in its proposed budget, proposed cutting the OIG budget. So it wouldn't hold your breath for a thorough investigation. If you want to learn more about the dhs, OIG and how we came to have it, and then the, the long history that the DHS has of preventing meaningful investigations into shootings by DHS officers. I did an episode with Jen Budd probably three years ago, and I would suggest going back and listening to that. You can buy Jen's book, too. I think she covers it there. The day after this, another young man was killed by ICE. Man was 28 years old. He was killed after ICE agents attempted to detain him. He fled and he was struck by a vehicle. This week, ICE also killed Lorenzo Salgado Arujo, a father of three who had been in the United States for 35 years. One of his sons in a press conference said that he was aware that this was his dad when he saw a video on Facebook, which is heartbreaking, claiming in this shooting, as I have falsely in almost every shooting, that he tried to weaponize his vehicle. The agent shot him. In Texas this week, CBS reported from the Harris county attorney that he is filing for visas for witnesses in the case unless they'd be deported before they can give evidence in the case. I don't want to go into a great deal more depth about this. I guess I've seen a lot of speculation in all of these and I might do a whole episode on it soon. I just want to take some time at the moment, I guess, for us all to. To process more grief. I did a book talk yesterday in Oakland and we just read their names out loud and had a little moment with Edis Moranti. It was Edith idea. It was a wonderful idea. Had a little moment to think about them at the start of the book talk there. And that was a nice thing to do. But I guess I just want to say, like, we are the people who get to decide if we want to keep living like this and we don't have to. And it's up to all of us to decide if this is the way we want to live and the way we want things to be. Yeah, I hope you can all take some time to process this and deal with it however you can.
- [175:53]
Garrison Davis
Okay. We are back ahead of an upcoming union election. The Department of Justice has opened a grand jury investigation into UAW President Sean Fane. Sean Fane is currently facing a challenge from UAW Vice President Rich Boyer, who years ago told the court appointed Independent Monitor that Fein, quote, acted improperly to obtain financial benefits for his fiance, unquote. Fane said in a statement, quote, let's be clear about what's going on here. Rich Boyer has fed the Monitor false allegations about me and is now trying to weaponize these bogus allegations to steal the upcoming UAW election. He knows he can't win a fair fight because he has no real platform to run on. Unquote. The court appointed monitor for UAW Neil Borovsky has clashed with Fein the past few years, ever since Fein pushed for the UAW to pass a resolution calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, which they then did way back in 2023. At the time, the UAW was the largest union to do so. And In December of 2023, Fain gave a speech in D.C. alongside Congresswoman Cori Bush and Rashida Tlaib, calling for a ceasefire and for aid to enter Gaza. Barofsky called Fain to express dissatisfaction with this resolution and Fein claims that Barofsky called him an anti Semite. Barofsky also forwarded a letter to the union from the ADL claiming that a UAW local was anti Semitic for supporting the ceasefire. Detroit News reported that Barofsky, quote, acknowledged the matter was outside the Monitor's jurisdiction, but said he was forwarding it, quote, given the serious concerns raised here, unquote. To quote an article in the American Prospect, quote. At the UAW executive board's February 2024 meeting, members asked why Barofsky was involving himself in the union's politics, while Barofsky protested he was not really seeking a policy change from them. Infuriated by both Barofsky's charges and his denials, Thane said, quote, for anyone to ever fucking say I'm anti Semitic, brother, I'll fight your ass in front of this building in a heartbeat, unquote. Within weeks of that meeting, Barofsky initiated an investigation of Fein's interactions with several UAW leaders. Unquote. In Sean Fain's recent statement regarding the DOJ's investigation, he claimed, quote, neil Barofsky has a political grudge against me because the UAW took an anti war stance about what was happening in Gaza. Under Sean Fein, the UAW has moved in a much more militant direction and has backed DSA candidates running on working class platforms in multiple states, going against some other union coalitions who were backing progressive or establishment Dems like in New York with Claire Valdez where the UAW backed Claire and a coalition of other unions backed Antonio Reynoso. Fane has been a very effective union president who has won a lot of big contract victories. And in his statement addressing the investigation, he wrote, quote, we've accomplished more in the past three years and three months than in the previous decades. This is what happens when you go against Corporate America and their allies. And I'm not going to be intimidated or harassed out of serving our membership. Our election is in six weeks. Neil Barofsky will not run our union, no matter how hard he tries. And no company sellout like Boyer is going to dictate our elections, unquote.
- [179:44]
Garrett
I think it's worth going over here, sort of the general dynamics of union elections, which is that for. For basically every major union, largely what elections come down to. This is how the UAW was run for decades. There is usually something that's called like the administrative caucus or the admin caucus, which tends to be the long term sort of ruling clique, I guess, of the union that it usually has held power continuously. There kind of has held power for decades. The Teamsters were like this. The UAW was like this until Sean Fein won. Shawn Fane is from. There's usually something called a reform faction who are a further left faction. And then there's also usually like a Trotskyite one that gets seven votes. But yeah. And the sort of important thing as Garrett was talking about was that this is the first time that a reform caucus had put straight up one of their guys in charge of a major union. You can look at the Teamsters too, but Teamsters for a Democratic Union always kind of had a tenuous relationship. Ish. With their new president. And he kind of sucks in a way that Sean Fein doesn't.
- [180:50]
Garrison Davis
Yeah. Largely does not.
- [180:52]
Garrett
Yeah. He has been the most militant of the major union leaders in the U.S. you know, like there was the strike a few years ago that we covered on the show.
- [181:00]
Garrison Davis
I mean, and this is another example of DOJ weaponization.
- [181:04]
Garrett
Yeah. Yeah.
- [181:05]
Garrison Davis
The Trump administration is. Is going after someone who is not only securing big wins for the union, but is also involving himself in these other elections, these other social causes, like, you know, Palestine.
- [181:17]
Garrett
Yeah. Also has been a really outspoken voice in favor of immigration. Yeah. And against. Yeah. The oppression of migrant workers.
- [181:24]
Garrison Davis
So this is absolutely, in part targeting Thane because of his opposition to a lot of the things the Trump administration is. Is doing. And that opposition and support of the UAW has been helping working class candidates get into office to then oppose these Things in Congress I don't know how to segue.
- [181:46]
Garrett
Okay, I got this. I got this. Garrison. Don't worry, I'm a professional. Speaking. Speaking of bowel movements in Michigan.
- [181:54]
Garrison Davis
Oh, God.
- [181:55]
Garrett
Let's talk explosive diarrhea.
- [181:59]
Garrison Davis
Oh, yeah, the UAW is also supporting Al Said. You're right. You're right. That is a good segue. And speaking of Michigan.
- [182:07]
Garrett
Oh, God. Okay, so there has been a large outbreak centered in Michigan of a parasite called Silospora that, that appears to be spreading through something like fresh salad greens. Although the CDC is still not sure. Yes, and we'll get to, we'll, we'll get to more on why they're not sure.
- [182:26]
Garrison Davis
My 4 year old diet continues to reign supreme.
- [182:29]
Garrett
God. So I think it's worth noting that, you know, this is something that a lot of writers have pointed out. There's always like small outbreaks of Silospora during the summer. So you'll see documents of, you know, like cases in other states that are not in the sort of group we're going to talk about in a second. And that's fairly normal. That's just, that's just sort of the, you know, that's just sort of the disease cycle. However, comma, there's been over 2,000 cases in Michigan and that is not normal at all. Now this specific outbreak, from what we know so far from the cdc, it seems like there is an outbreak in Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia and Kentucky. And these ones seem to actually be connected to each other, unlike the sort of disparate cases elsewhere in the country which are just seem to kind of right now look like a little bit higher than the normal background noise of what, what you would expect in a very large country. If you're like in Michigan, it's maybe worth not buying like bag salads. And if you're gonna buy lettuce, buy like a head of lettuce and like throw away the outside of it. If you're not in Michigan, like, like, don't really worry about this. Like, you're probably going to be okay. But the reason I want to talk about this outbreak is that specifically it's been exacerbated, at least in part by RFK junior's firing of 10,000 health and human services workers. Now, as a result of these cuts, the Foodborne Diseases Active Surveillance Network went from tracking six pathogens to only tracking two. And lo and behold, okay, so this timing is genuinely a coincidence. But they cut the surveillance tracking on July 1, and one of the pathogens they were tracking was cyclospora. So this is going great and obviously this outbreak would have happened anyways. It's not responsible to draw a direct causal link from these cuts to, oh, there's this outbreak now. But what it has done is slow the response to it because what was one of the world's best surveillance systems has been absolutely gutted because they fired 10,000 people or. Well, okay, it's a combination of fired and forced out and people taking like, you know, people taking some of the packages that they've been offered.
- [184:46]
Garrison Davis
Yeah, yeah, those, those deferred resignation Doge offers.
- [184:51]
Garrett
Yeah, this is a very explosive example of this. But what's happening here is one manifestation of the slow crumbling of general state capacity. Right. There are a lot of regulatory agencies and a lot of scientific agencies whose, you know, budgets and staffs have been cut massively and the systems that they run are well designed enough and the people who actually do them care about them enough that they tend not to collapse immediately. That's not the sort of model of state collapse that we're sort of dealing with here. Right. It's not that everything just suddenly stops working. What happens is slowly, over time, things that we used to have, we simply don't have anymore along these sort of lines. One of the other slow acting symptoms of this sort of carving out of the American scientific state and its regulatory capacity is that weather predictions have gotten less accurate. And the reason they've gotten less accurate is because there is a large number of weather balloons that used to be deployed every single day to collect weather information that you can't get any other way that have been shut down because they just don't have the staff to run them. And so this is a thing we're going to be seeing more and more of over the next, honestly, probably the rest of our lives is that the pieces of the state that were torn apart by Doge and were torn apart by RFK Jr going through there's just going to be things that we don't think about that suddenly get worse. Right. And it's also worth noting, right, like, you know, something that I think you can to some extent point to for this specific outbreak is that there's been damage done to food testing that dates back to like the first Trump administration. Right. And when we're talking about something like food safety standards, right. Or we're talking about workplace safety standards, it's important to understand that there are two kinds of regulations in this world. There are regulations that are written in the ink of lobbyists and there are regulations that are written in the blood of workers, and the ones that are being cut right now are the ones that are written in blood. And so, you know, right now we have a story that sucks, but is at least kind of silly in a bunch of explosive diarrhea. But as the state capacity continues to degrade, it's going to get more and more grim.
- [187:17]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [187:17]
Garrett
As you know, basic scientific and regulatory functions that we all have just come to rely on, to not eat poison every day crumble and start to fall apart.
- [187:28]
Garrison Davis
Your point about there being two different types of regulations, I think is really important because people often just think of regulation as just like just this singular kind of mechanism that. That the state can deploy and.
- [187:38]
Garrett
No, yeah, it is.
- [187:40]
Garrison Davis
It is not. It's. There is regulations that will protect workers, that are achieved by workers, and there's regulations that only serve corporate interests or make things more difficult or cumbersome for workers to go about their daily lives and enjoy the public services and, like, the public goods and the infrastructure that we have. And this. This is sort of like hacking away at state capacities you're talking about, which is, like, very obviously on display in. In Trump's second administration through stuff like Doge. Right. This is kind of the main project of conservatism since, like, the 70s and 80s.
- [188:15]
Mia Wong
Yeah.
- [188:15]
Garrett
Well, I think what I would also say about that, though, that there is. I think there is an important distinction between what's happening here and what's what, you know, if you look at, like, Reagan, for example.
- [188:23]
Garrison Davis
Yeah.
- [188:24]
Garrett
Which is like, a lot of what those states were doing was, you know, in an attempt to transition from the state sort of having a welfare capacity to a state just being a purely military entity. Right. But those people also weren't doing this kind of stuff in the sense that they weren't just like shutting down the weather balloons, because, you know, like, even, like George W. Bush isn't just like shutting down every weather balloon he can find. Because there used to be an understanding that there was supposed to be state capacity in place or expanded that would help the ruling class stay in power. Right. This is why you see, like, the expansion of the police through this period, this massive increase in police and military budgets, and also why you would see, in a lot of cases, you would see expansions of scientific budgets and why you wouldn't, for example, just start doing this. The Reagan administration did a lot of replacing regulations written in blood with regulations written in ink, but they didn't just gut basic scientific capacity that was useful to capital in the way that's happening here. Look, like another part of this. Right. Is like it was, it was strategically important to someone like Bush and someone like Reagan that the US would maintain like a large scale scientific advantage.
- [189:41]
James Stout
Right.
- [189:42]
Garrett
So if you, if you want to do that, you don't go through and just start annihilating the grant process by which all American science has done. Right. Stuff that like, those people didn't do because they had a better understanding of how the American empire works. And these people are doing it because they have bought the propaganda line about what their ideology is supposed to be instead of actually executing their ideology and like, you know, having the sort of scientific state capacity to like fuel the corporations that their power relies on.
- [190:10]
Cooper Quinton
Yeah.
- [190:10]
Garrison Davis
The contradictions of their project are more clearly manifest in something like this.
- [190:14]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [190:14]
Garrison Davis
Whereas, you know, the sort of like privatization and like the removal of like social services under Reagan still allowed, you know, government funds and involvement towards things that would help, like, infuse the economy in some ways in a trickle down way.
- [190:27]
Tabby
Yeah.
- [190:27]
Garrison Davis
Something that really did not help a lot of, a lot of workers in the moment.
- [190:31]
Garrett
Well, they help the economy, meaning corporation, make more money every year.
- [190:36]
Lele Pons
Yes.
- [190:36]
Garrison Davis
Versus the sort of expansion of this privatization towards things like, yeah, we should not have the government be funding weather balloons that can be privatized instead. All these things that the private sector cannot do as well as a central government body cannot do without the backing of a central government body. And scientific funding is another example of this. You know, sometimes the RFK forces or whatever will like, realize that what they're doing is actually going to hurt their core driving factor, which is, which is serving capital. And they will like backtrack on, on some things. But it follows the sort of Silicon Valley mindset. It's like, move fast and break things. Then you'll learn that maybe you broke something you shouldn't have broken. But the consequence of that is that in the meantime you have thousands of people shitting themselves.
- [191:21]
Garrett
Yeah.
- [191:22]
Garrison Davis
Or worse. Or. Or worse.
- [191:24]
Garrett
Yeah. Amazing, amazing country that we've designed here. It's just, it's going great. And no, no bad things are going to happen and are happening now.
- [191:34]
Garrison Davis
Before we go, there's. There's two pieces of news that have dropped since recording.
- [191:38]
Garrett
Oh, boy.
- [191:39]
Garrison Davis
Pete Hagseth is recommending, quote unquote, testosterone replacement therapy.
- [191:45]
Garrett
Oh, God.
- [191:46]
Garrison Davis
For soldiers age 30 and older in a video titled the High T. Department of War. So prepare for an onslaught of really bad, like, liberal jokes about how the Department of War is doing gender affirming therapy now.
- [192:00]
Garrett
Jesus christ.
- [192:03]
Garrison Davis
And about 30 minutes ago, 103 Democrats voted to eliminate aid to Israel, 96 voted against this, 10 voted present. This is a pretty big change from what a vote like this would have been a few years ago. This is still like a performative vote ultimately. Like there's no way this is going to pass.
- [192:26]
Mia Wong
Yeah.
- [192:26]
Garrison Davis
But those 93 Democrats who voted against this, that is a primary list. That is a list of targets to go after. Anyway, I think that's the news that we reported today.
- [192:39]
Garrett
Yeah, put it. Put a trans girl on your couch.
- [192:43]
Garrison Davis
We reported the news.
- [192:45]
Cooper Quinton
We reported the news.
- [192:52]
Mia Wong
Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.
- [192:57]
Daniel Kurd
It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.
- [193:18]
Garrison Davis
This is Tony Ayo from the Real
- [193:20]
Sam J
Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder.
- [193:21]
Garrison Davis
You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite burrito spot?
- [193:26]
Sam J
But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game.
- [193:29]
Garrison Davis
Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up.
- [193:34]
Sam J
It's the same price you'll pay for Life.
- [193:36]
Garrison Davis
Switch now for unlimited wireless at a
- [193:38]
Sam J
price that'll never go up.
- [193:39]
Garrison Davis
Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay 25amonth as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [193:50]
Lele Pons
My first guest is Paris Hilton. Shakira, Luke and Yerin have surprises, many surprises. Welcome to the Sweet 305 podcast where the group chat comes to life. You're the one only person I know that loves a yellow starburst.
- [194:05]
Garrison Davis
It's lemonade.
- [194:07]
Lele Pons
This is Sweet 305 here. Oversharing is encouraged. Listen to Suite 305 with Lele Pons on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [194:18]
Garrison Davis
Hey, Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here the dream of the 90s
- [194:23]
Fred Armisen
is alive in podcast form.
- [194:25]
Kerry Brownstein
We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portland together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.
- [194:37]
Fred Armisen
And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [194:49]
Kerry Brownstein
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song about.
- [194:54]
James Stout
Well, I thought you were all going
- [194:55]
Mia Wong
to write a song.
- [194:56]
Kerry Brownstein
I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [195:06]
Ari Chambers
What's up fam? It's sports journalist Ari Chambers.
- [195:08]
Sam J
Hey, what's up y'?
- [195:09]
Tabby
All?
- [195:09]
Sam J
It's your girl, Sam J.
- [195:10]
Ari Chambers
And we're the hosts of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from 2gether.
- [195:15]
Sam J
We're breaking down the biggest headlines, the viral moments and the stories everyone's talking about across women's sports.
- [195:21]
Ari Chambers
From game changing performance to culture shifting conversations. We'll give you our takes, our debates and a few laughs along the way
- [195:27]
Sam J
because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.
- [195:36]
Daniel Kurd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.