CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins

Summary

CZM Rewind: Part One – The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins

Behind the Bastards delves deep into the life and legacy of controversial figures who have left indelible marks on history. In the episode titled "CZM Rewind: Part One: The Rush Limbaugh Episodes with Paul F. Tompkins," hosts Robert Evans and Paul F. Tompkins engage in an extensive discussion about the influential and polarizing conservative radio host, Rush Limbaugh. Released on January 7, 2025, this episode meticulously explores Limbaugh's rise to prominence, his impact on American conservatism, and the controversies that surrounded his career.

Introduction to Rush Limbaugh

The episode opens with Robert Evans introducing Paul F. Tompkins, a renowned voice artist, highlighting his role as the voice of various beloved and disliked characters, including Mr. Peanutbutter. Evans sets the stage by framing Rush Limbaugh as a "historical success of a creative mind" and a figure responsible for significant societal changes.

Early Life and Family Background

LIMBAUGH'S ROOTS (02:32 - 10:01):

Robert Evans begins by tracing Limbaugh's lineage, revealing that "Rush" is not a nickname but his full given name, with Rush Limbaugh III being the third generation. [10:01] Evans shares that Rush Senior, Rush's grandfather, was born in Bollinger County, Missouri, and lived to the remarkable age of 102, retiring in 1994. This longevity inadvertently extended Rush's own radio career, as the family legacy emphasized strong Republican values.

Paul F. Tompkins provides personal insights, stating, “They were lifelong Democrats, Philadelphia Democrats. We were just sort of, you know, like a conservative, liberal family.” [04:35] Despite a non-political household, Limbaugh's upbringing in a "lower middle class, big Catholic family" in Mount Airy, Philadelphia, laid a complex foundation for his future ideologies.

Launching a Radio Career

FIRST STEPS IN RADIO (10:02 - 20:00):

Rush Limbaugh's passion for radio was evident from a young age. At 16, with his father's reluctant support, he secured a part-time job at a local radio station. [27:43] Evans recounts how Limbaugh's early broadcasts involved reading beauty tips and mocking them, showcasing his emerging sense of humor and satirical approach.

A notable quote comes from Limbaugh himself during this period: “I could argue either side of a proposition without missing a beat." [23:02] This versatility hinted at his future role as a provocative commentator.

Rise to Prominence in Sacramento

BREAKING INTO TALK RADIO (30:00 - 50:00):

Limbaugh's move to Sacramento marked a significant turning point. Here, under the guidance of Norm Woodruff, he transitioned from traditional DJ roles to more politically charged content. [60:55] Evans highlights, “Rush Limbaugh stepped up and said, not being quite as racist as that guy is my middle name.”

The comparison to Morton Downey Jr. is drawn, illustrating how Limbaugh adopted a similar controversial style to fill the void left by Downey’s departure. [60:55] This period saw Limbaugh embracing insult comedy, a format that would define his career.

Transition to Political Commentary

EMERGENCE AS A POLITICAL VOICE (50:00 - 70:00):

By the early 1980s, Limbaugh had fully embraced political commentary. His show began to reflect increasingly extreme conservative viewpoints, resonating with a growing base of right-wing listeners. [65:00] A pivotal moment discussed is his infamous "AIDS Update" segment, where he mocked the AIDS crisis and targeted homosexuals, drawing significant backlash from activists. [84:14]

Evans notes, “The AIDS update is meant to offend them, Limbaugh said." [85:31] This segment exemplified Limbaugh's abrasive style and his willingness to provoke outrage to galvanize his audience.

Controversies and Societal Impact

POLARIZING PUBLIC OPINION (70:00 - 90:00):

Limbaugh's controversial statements and segments became a hallmark of his show. His propensity to insult callers and derogatory remarks about minorities and liberals intensified his influence and the divisiveness of his platform. [77:48] A notable incident involved Limbaugh threatening a female newscaster on air, blending intimidation with harassment. [78:44]

Tompkins reflects on Limbaugh's tactics, saying, “The idea that this guy would not be content doing just this is like, when does it...” [36:56] The hosts discuss how Limbaugh's approach laid the groundwork for the modern era of right-wing media personalities who thrive on controversy and polarization.

Influence on American Conservatism and Media

SHAPING THE RIGHT-WING MOVEMENT (90:00 - INDEPENDENT):

Limbaugh's ability to connect with disaffected conservatives in regions like Northern California helped solidify his position as a leading voice in American conservatism. [93:00] His branding techniques, including repeated catchphrases and grandiose self-presentation, entrenched his ideology among listeners.

Evans underscores Limbaugh's strategic manipulations: “Rush was a very savvy person." [82:27] This savvy marketing, combined with his unapologetic stance, made Limbaugh a pivotal figure in the conservative movement, influencing policies and political discourse nationwide.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

LEGACY AND IMPACT (98:35 - END):

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on Limbaugh's enduring legacy. They argue that his methods of fostering division and promoting extremist views have had lasting effects on American society and politics.

Paul F. Tompkins poignantly states, “It's such a common thing that I'm just glad my dad was a guy who didn't say anything ever.” [22:52] This sentiment resonates with listeners who view Limbaugh's approach as a lesson in the dangers of unchecked rhetoric and media influence.

Notable Quotes

• Paul F. Tompkins: “They were lifelong Democrats, Philadelphia Democrats. We were just sort of, you know, like a conservative, liberal family.” [04:35]
• Robert Evans: “Rush is not short for anything. Rush is a full first name.” [09:03]
• Paul F. Tompkins: “Rush Limbaugh hates the outdoors.” [15:26]
• Robert Evans: “Rush was like, yeah, but in 1990, that was still a thing he had to apologize for.” [85:31]
• Paul F. Tompkins: “It's the idea of, you know, it's cancel culture if you, if you compare being conservative to being a Jew in 19, late 1930s Berlin...” [95:46]

Final Remarks

This episode of Behind the Bastards offers a comprehensive exploration of Rush Limbaugh's life, highlighting how his personal background, career choices, and controversial tactics culminated in a profound and often divisive impact on American media and politics. Through in-depth analysis and candid discussions, hosts Evans and Tompkins present a nuanced portrayal of a man whose legacy continues to influence contemporary discourse.

For those seeking to understand the complexities of influential historical figures and their lasting effects on society, this episode serves as an essential listen.

Transcript

[Robert Evans]

Hey everybody, Robert Evans here. And you know we're still coming down from our end of the year celebration. I'm headed off to CES where we'll be doing reporting for It Could Happen Here. And better offline, we're going to be coming back for the new year soon. The Oprah episodes will be in the can. Very excited to introduce you all to that. But for this week we're gonna be going back to a rerun, so please enjoy the story of Rush Limbaugh. To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Robert Evans]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

They've never found a weapon. Never made sense.

[Robert Evans]

Still doesn't make sense.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Robert Evans]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together our mission on the really Know really podcast is to get the.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

True answers to life's baffling questions, like.

[Robert Evans]

Why the bathroom door doesn't go all.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

The way to the floor, what's in.

[Robert Evans]

The museum a failure? And does your dog truly love you? We have the answ. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign. Jason Bobblehead the ReallyNo really Podcast.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop.

[Robert Evans]

Wow. Very powerful.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist, and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator. And the rot works in. It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel Listen to the Bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Welcome to behind the Bastards, the podcast that I continually fail to introduce like a professional, which is particularly shameful this week because our guest is a very professional voice artist, Mr. Paul F. Tompkins. Hi.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Thank you for having me.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you for being here, Paul. You are the voice of a lot of characters that. That. That a lot of people enjoy. I think most famously, to me at least, is Mr. Peanutbutter.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

To be fair, I'm also the voice of a lot of characters that people hate.

[Robert Evans]

That's true. That's true. Because if you're really achieving as an artist, a lot of people are going to hate anything that you do. That's the market.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You're doing it right.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly. And today we're talking about a truly historical success of a creative mind, a man hated by tens of millions of people and who should be hated by billions. A man who has done, I would say, incalculable harm to the future of human life and all life on this planet. Mr. Rush Limbaugh.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Correct.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah. Paul. What? Did you have any kind of history with Rush Limbaugh, like, in terms of your upbringing and stuff? I don't know much about how you grew up.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah. Do you know what? I forgot that I forgot. First of all, I forgot how long he's been around.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And I remember watching him in his earliest days on TV and watching that show, like, as a goof, the way I would watch, you know, The Morton Downey Jr. Show, Wally George or whatever, and just like, who is this clown? And he's, like, doing this. This sort of, you know, what seemed like a character, you know, at the time, because he. I think he fancied himself an entertainer and had a show that had little skits in it and stuff, like. And I. I thought he was just ridiculous. And so I watched him ironically, and. And then things just got worse. Like, I sort of got tired of it. I remember getting tired of it and like, okay, this is just like the same thing over and over again. And it's not. It's not pushing that. That button in my ironic pleasure center anymore. So I just stopped watching. But he, despite. Despite my. My jumping ship, he continued to do what he was doing.

[Robert Evans]

He lost the Paul F. Tompkins demographic, but he kept the my parents and everyone that raised me demographic. So was your upbringing particularly political? Would you say?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Not, you know what? Not super political. I was raised. My family was a lower middle class, big Catholic family in Philadelphia in a sort of suburb called Mount Airy. And we were. Both of. My family was like lifelong Democrats, you know, Philadelphia Democrats. And so that was kind of it. Like, we were just sort of, you know, like a conservative, liberal family. And, yeah, we didn't talk a lot about politics in the House growing up, and that was kind of it. But I knew that we were liberal Democrats, you know, who were weirdly enough, guided by, guided by, I'm not even gonna say faith. I think we were guided by my parents sort of morals where they were greatest generation depression babies and they voted straight Democrat, but they were not like, even though we were Catholic, it was like we were not single issue voters, you know, but they, but my family was. My parents were brought up with the, the same sort of prejudices that people of their generation were brought up with, you know, but, but yeah, politics did not figure into it. It was like when I got, when I got, you know, a little older and out of the house and everything, that's when I started, you know, investigating my own politics. And it was like a long journey.

[Robert Evans]

You know, that is very exciting to me. Just because you came from kind of more of a, you know, a liberally background and your introduction to Rush Limbaugh was kind of watching it as a character, right?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yes, exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I grew up very conservative. My parents were also lower middle class, verging on poor. And when I was like kind of little, a lot of economic anxiety, but extremely conservative, I would say like our family religion was conservatism. And so Rush Limbaugh was caught. Whenever I was driving with my mom or my dad, Rush was on. We would, we listened to him. My parents talked about him. So my upbringing with him was that this guy is like the prophet of, of what's, what's right, you know, both in the political sense and in the moral sense. So I'm very excited about this and I'm excited that you know who Morton Downey Jr. Is, because we're going to be talking about him a bit too.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

So, yeah, Rush Limbaugh is. It's hard to oversell this guy's influence on our current state of like, I think it would be fair to say we're kind of like verging on civil conflict right now between the right and left in the United States. For sure. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. And I think Rush Limbaugh has a huge. Might be the man most responsible for that.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I totally agree that his influence cannot be. Is it overestimated?

[Robert Evans]

Like, yeah, it cannot be overestimated.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's like I, the day he died, I tweeted, I tweeted, if I had to say something positive, I guess if I had to say something positive, I'm glad Rush Limbaugh lived long enough to get cancer and die. And then that got, that got picked up by fox news.com they did a roundup of, you know, liberals celebrating his death. Rush Limbaugh's Death. Which really was just like, hey, if you want to harass some people, here's. Here's who to harass. And I had people. I had people in my mentions on Twitter, like, saying things like, you better pray you never meet me. Like. Like people implying violence because I said, I'm glad Rush Limbaugh is dead. I had somebody call my. Call my house and say, rush Limbaugh contributed far more good to society than you ever will.

[Robert Evans]

Fuck my God.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

For Rush Limbaugh. This guy. But, I mean, this guy had a show. He had a show. He wasn't a legislator. He wasn't. He wasn't like some. Some sort of freedom fighter. This guy just had a show where he said mean things.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Where. Where he repeatedly celebrated the deaths of his enemies and made half a billion dollars doing it. Yes. Okay, let's. Let's get into Rush's life. So the first thing I learned about him, when I started digging him into him, that might be the thing I learned about him that surprised me the most. Rush is not short for anything. Rush is a full. A full first name. And in fact, Rush Limbaugh is the third Rush Limbaugh in his family line. They are very proud of that name. His grandpa, Rush Sr. Was born and raised in Bollinger County, Missouri. So he and I are both Missouri babies. He grew up into a world that was changing rapidly. Rush Sr. Saw an electric light for the first time when he was 12. He took his first railroad trip in 1904 to see the World's Fair name. I thought that he had. I always thought that was one of those things. He was like, I choose that. That is the most shocking thing about him. Rush Limot is not only his full name, it is the only name his family seems to give their firstborn. Sucks.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Hey, if it ain't broke.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, if it ain't broke. So Rush. Rush senior became a lawyer. He opened an office in Cape Girardu, Missouri, and he basically never left the town again. He retired in 1994 at the age of 102, which I mention because it suggests that all those cigars Rush smoke. Rush, our Rush Limbaugh smoked, saved us about 32 years more of his show.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wait, I'm sorry.

[Robert Evans]

Did you say he retired at 102 in 1994? Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And then how long did he live after that? Did he get to.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, I think he died. I think he died immediately. From what? Yeah, like, he's one of those guys who worked until he died, basically.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Some people are like that.

[Robert Evans]

You know, somebody his his grandson was like that. So Rush Senior was elected to the Missouri House of Representatives when he was 40. His main political issue was fighting FDR in the New Deal, which shouldn't be surprising to anybody. Right? This is deeply, deeply embedded in the Rush Limbaugh line. In 1936, Rush Limbaugh Senior was a Republican delegate at the Republican National Convention, where he helped nominate Alf Landon for the noble job of losing to Franklin Delano Roosevelt. In an election you don't. Nobody, nobody was better at campaigning than fdr. It was never a successful thing to run against that.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I know. Somebody had to be his Washington generals.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, Alf Landon. The Washington generals of Republican politics. So my main source for the early life and family history of Rush Limbaugh is a fairly comprehensive, if I would say, kind of fawning biography of Limbaugh by Zev Chaffetz. And Zev. It's a weird first name, Z e apostrophe EV Chaffetz. He notes that over the course of decades of lawyering, Rush Senior quote, quietly but inevitably became well to do. Which is an interesting way of phrasing it. Just like there was no stopping it. He just got. It was kind of a way of making it seem like he just. He didn't really want to become rich. He just became rich.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You know, that is the most suspicious sounding phrase I've heard a long time.

[Robert Evans]

Inevitably, quietly and inevitably got rich.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Sinister.

[Robert Evans]

My God, it is very sinister. So Rush Jr, who is our Rush Limbaugh's father, was born at some point. Quick Googling, obviously. He had to have been born quick Googling, didn't return a date. He's the only Rush Limbaugh without a Wikipedia page, which I guess kind of a. Kind of a shot to him. I could have probably found it out if I'd really dug into it, but it doesn't really matter that much for our purposes.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, he did what he had to do. He gave us Rush.

[Robert Evans]

He gave us our Rush. Yes, our Rush Hour rush. So Rush Jr. Is only important for the impact that he had on our Rush. He was a World War II combat pilot, which is undeniably rad. You got to give him that. And his biography notes that he maintained a military crew cut for his entire life. He was heavyset and top dead out at about 300 pounds, which earned him the nickname Big Rush.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Oh.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, Big Rush, man.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

One of those nicknames that you, you cannot combat.

[Robert Evans]

Like, it's no.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Like, no, you're Big Rush. Sorry, Big Rush.

[Robert Evans]

Sorry, Big Rush.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You can ask politely. It's not gonna Happen.

[Robert Evans]

Why are you in a Big Rush? So Big Rush became an attorney.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Sorry, that's what you would tell people, like, because I'm always rushing around.

[Robert Evans]

I'm always rushing around. So Big Rush became an attorney like his dad and his brother, who eventually went on to become a federal judge. Big Rush was a powerful orator and often gave speeches in the town of Cape Girardeau, doing during holidays. His very conservative politics influenced these speeches, and his most famous one was a tearful, hagiographic speech about our nation's saintly founding fathers. Again, you can see he clearly had kind of the same gift of gab that our Rush has. And I, I, you have to admit, if you want, if you know anything about Rush Limbaugh, he was an undeniably talented broadcaster. He was very good at what he did. That's why he had the impact that he had.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Now, Rush Limbaugh, Rush Hudson Limbaugh iii, to give his full name, was born in Cape Girardeau, Mississippi, on January. Or Missouri. Sorry, on January 12, 1951. By all accounts, he had a financially comfortable upbringing with a brother and a parents who loved him. Baby Rush spent his childhood imbibing a steady diet of his dad's rants about scummy liberals and evil conniving. One of our Rush's childhood friends recalls of Big Rush of his dad, quote, we'd go over to his house sometimes just to watch him watch the 6 o'clock news. He'd sit in front of the television drinking black cherry pop, eating popcorn and just railing at the anchorman and the reporters. He'd yell at Dan Rather. They're all typical liberals, and Rather's the worst one of the bunch. And we'd try to keep him going, you know. Mr. Rush, what do you think about this? Mr. Rush, what do you think about that? Sometimes he'd say, kinder. That was this friend's name. You're gonna be the first Dutchman on the moon. I don't know exactly what he meant by that, but he was trying to be friendly. I liked him, but he was a harsh taskmaster with his sons. That's an odd comment.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That's so weird. So Rush has a, has a, A.

[Robert Evans]

Brother or Rush has a brother? He has a brother, David, who is his younger brother. No, no, no. I think that's the oldest. The oldest son is the. Rush gets the Rush name.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah. They didn't do a George Foreman.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. David becomes like a lawyer, doesn't really leave Cape Girardeau and is like, you know, he's he, unlike his brother, has a family, has like a wife that he's, you know, stays with and all that stuff.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Did he quietly but inevitably become wealthy?

[Robert Evans]

I think, yeah, I think he was born wealthy. He and his brother were both born rich as hell, so. And. And our Rush's brother David provided an even more telling glimpse of kind of what their childhood was like under Big Rush. My dad stood out sometimes. He provoked people who didn't agree with him to violence. Once, for example, he was in a bar slamming FDR and a couple guys jumped him and beat him up. I never did ask him the details of that one, but it was a couple guys. Not a fair fight. I know that much. I have to assume he deserved to get the shit kicked out of. Yeah, I mean, I guess he was saying something like, the people who got screwed over in the Great Depression deserve to starve to death. We shouldn't be helping them. That's going to be my guess. And he got the shit kicked out of him by some WPA guys. Something like that.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

If your name is. If your name is Big Rush and two guys go after you, I think that's a fair fight.

[Robert Evans]

That's a fair fight. You're big, you know.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, he's a little rush.

[Robert Evans]

He's £300. They're probably about a buck fifty, you know. Fair fight.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Their fight by mass thin from being poor. Yeah, that's. So our Rush was born into the Eisenhower years, which will probably always be remembered as like the high point of both capitalism and the United States. This period of peak American exceptionalism imprinted itself deeply on Russia's growing brain. His father was made a special ambassador to India's legal system. Their family got their first television. Yeah, yeah. I think it means, you know, India's was newly independent in the Eisenhower years. Right. They had just. The UK had just left. They had just partitioned with Pakistan. They're developing their own independent legal system and they're a democracy that was heavily based, at least initially, on the U.S. so the president, like, picked guys who were established lawyers, like Big Rush and also established Republicans to be kind of help set up the Indian legal system.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

That's kind of what happened. So, yeah, his. His father's a big man in Republican politics. Rush grows up seeing in the period where America is undeniably like. Like literally is half of the global economy. Right. That's a very significant thing for him. So the family in the 50s gets their first TV, but radio is still the dominant method of entertainment in those days. And Russia's childhood and early adolescence coincided with the birth of rock and roll and the absolute peak of cultural relevance for DJs. My dad grew up at a pretty similar period of time. He's like seven or eight years younger than Rush, and he grew up. The only thing my dad ever wanted to be was a deejay, and he was a radio DJ for, like, 20, 30 years. You know, that was like, the coolest thing that you could do. Right. You didn't have Spotify, you didn't have the Internet. People learned about new music from DJs who were kind of like, picking what they were going to play on the radio. It was like the absolute raddest thing you could be. And that's what Rush, like, he. He idolizes these big DJs of the time, and that's all he wants to be for basically his entire young life is a dj.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now, when Rush was three, Brown versus the Board of Education was ruled on by the Supreme Court, which led to the integration of US Schools. Now, Ziv Chaffetz doesn't write anything specific in the biography about how Rush senior talked about race to his son. I. I have not. We don't get any of that information. And I'm not necessarily blaming Chaffetz for that, because I think the Rush family is very PR savvy. They don't talk about it. You know, I don't know who he would have gotten that info from. Right. But our Rush would have definitely picked up on the great deal of conflict in Cape Girardeau over racial matters. Missouri is an odd state in that it is both Midwestern and Southern. During the Civil War, it was split between Yankee and Confederate sympathizers. And the town that Rush grew up in had monuments to the dead of both sides. There was tremendous resistance to the idea of integration of schools in Missouri and in Cape Girardeau. And Jazeev Chaffetz, to his credit, writes, quote, In 1952, Cape built its white students a new school, Central High. Blacks continued to attend Cobb High School, but the Supreme Court and basketball changed that. Cape Girardeau took its high school basketball very seriously and sometimes contended for the state title. The 1953 team was expected to be a powerhouse, but word got around that the kids from Cobb were even better. An informal game was arranged between Central and Cobb High, says historian Frank Nichol. Cobb won. Shortly thereafter, COP mysteriously burned down. Black students went to school in churches and private homes that year. But a more permanent solution was, yeah, that's the kind of town he grows up in the black kids win at basketball and they burn their school down.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Cape Trudeau is a very racist town. And kind of more to the point, like, we don't know exactly what. What Rush's dad would have said about any of this. We don't know that he would have supported the burning down of the black school. We don't know that he wouldn't, though. That's right. That's. And, you know, the. The conservatives were definitely more on the don't integrate side of things right now. A compromise. A compromise was eventually reached in Cape Girardeau, and the compromise was that black kids would be allowed to attend Central High, but they would be put in special classes that were taught by former teachers of Cobb, the school that had been burned down. This was kind of integrating by not integrating. So there were black and white kids in the same school, but not in the same classes. And this is the way things were in Cape Girardeau when Rush Limbaugh started school. So, yeah, that's. You can infer from that what you will based on some of the things Rush Limbaugh says and does later in life. I think we're missing some important information about what his dad thought about black people.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, I don't remember him ever being concerned as to the investigation of that fire. I don't think he was burned down high school.

[Robert Evans]

He might have done it. Like that is rampant and irresponsible speculation on my part. But also the only reason I think he wouldn't have is that he wouldn't have been able to run away from it in my. From what I can tell, he didn't do well in that fight is all I'm saying. So Rush had an upbringing that would have been fairly standard for a rich kid of his era. He played basketball. He did chores. He had plenty of friends. He was not an overly active kid. He did not like sports. He hated his one year in the Cub Scouts. Rush Limbaugh hates the outdoors. His entire life, he did not like school, but he was popular, largely because his family was rich and had a huge basement with a pool table and a bunch of other luxuries. The kids Rush hung out with during this time give us some of our best hints about the darker elements of his childhood. One of them told Zeve Chaffetz, quote, rush's dad didn't suffer fools lightly. He was always very disapproving of Rush's ambitions to have a career in radio. Rush's mom was a kind, gentle person, but his dad could be pretty rough. He was not above calling down Russian David in front of their friends. And when he did it, there was a string of expletives attached. I saw that happen many times. So kind of abusive. Not, I don't think, by the standards of the time, and I haven't heard any, that he was, like, beating his kids or anything, but kind of mentally abusive. Again, probably more or less in line with what most, most men of his social class would have been like to their kids. You know, I don't think this was abnormal.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I mean, how many, how many of these guys were born out of the, the. The sort of ritual humiliation by their fathers in front of an audience?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I think most of them, you.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Know, it's like, it's such a. It's such a common thing that I'm. I guess I'm just glad my dad was a guy who didn't say anything ever.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's better than humiliating you in front of your friends when you say something he disagrees with. So every one of Russia's early friends that I've seen interviewed is very consistent about the fact that he was not political from an early age. He rarely, if ever, talked politics, and he did not express strong beliefs. One of his friends even remembers him as a particularly good debater in school because, quote, he could argue either side of a proposition without missing a beat. When he did express political opinions, they were generally conservative. One friend noted that the only time he saw child Rush express a strong political sentiment was after the 1960 presidential election when Rush was nine. Quote, Rush wrote on a drywall Kennedy, One darn. Nixon lost. Shucks. So grows up conservative because his dad is conservative. But it's clearly politics is not a big part of his life. From an early age. He's not like Ben Shapiro, right. Where from the get go, he's being sort of like, focused into becoming a political commentator. That does not happen with Rush Limbaugh.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Right. He's more from the darn shucks school of.

[Robert Evans]

The darn shuck school of political commentary. Yeah. So Rush got his first gig at age 13 working at a downtown barbershop. He later told his biographer that he liked the gig because it gave him a chance to talk to adults who he preferred to his peers because I didn't think kids were interesting. When it came to girls. Rush was as awkward as you'd expect. He was bad at sports, heavyset, and not at all smooth. In his 1993 biography, the Rush Limbaugh Story, biographer Paul Culford recalls one particularly embarrassing incident during a game of spin the bottle. When Rush was a teenager, he spun the bottle and it stopped at. Stopped pointing at the prettiest girl at the party, which is how she's described in this anecdote quote. She looked at him and gasped. Couldn't do it. Not with him, that is. And everyone in the room witnessed his humiliation. It was a wound he would nurse forever. That's nice. Thank you, biographer, for that. And it's one of those things, you know, I. I think there's. I. I'm sure it had. This has an impact on the kind of man he becomes. But also, I think most of us have a moment like that where we have a crush on some person of the opposite or the same sex, and they're not into us, and it's horribly embarrassing. It's a pretty normal. And most of us don't grow up to destroy civil society in the environment, Right?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. We've all been there. And Rush was there, too. Obviously, this is a part of whatever toxic stew gets cooked up in him, but I don't know how. Like, it's one of those things I think you can kind of lean too much on. Oh. Is why he was always forever humiliated by this thing. And that's why he became the man he was like. Well, we all have that in our past, and we all don't do this shit.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's very much like the. The original origin story of Lex Luthor, that.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Superman blew out his hair. Superman. Superman was responsible for him going prematurely bald, and he. He became a super villain because of this.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And, you know, there are a lot of other bald men in that world.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Who don't become Superman.

[Robert Evans]

So Big Rush wanted his son to become a lawyer or to do something else with a similar sort of gravitas. Right. The Limbaughs were big men in Cape Girardeau. They were kind of like the. The. The primary. Like the most prominent men in the entire town. And he. Big Rush wanted his son to follow in his footsteps and do something respectable. Didn't have to be a lawyer. Go into politics. Do something important. Right. Do something that he can brag about to the other rich guys. Now, the fact that young Rush only ever wanted to be on the radio infuriated his father. For his part, Rush seems to suspect that his love of radio was born in part from his hatred of school. Quote, my mother would be fixing me breakfast, and I'd be listening to the guy on the radio. He'd be having fun. And I was preparing to go to prison.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I mean, join the Club Rush.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we all hate school, everybody.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It never occurred to me to relate it to the guy on the radio, like, like how come he gets to have fun, this grown adult and I have to go to school?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of kids, let's, I'll take my adopted hometown, Portland, for example. A lot of kids there who hate school. They don't destroy the entire planet. They just break Starbucks windows on the weekends and that's much healthier. Rush, you can just buck up a Starbucks if you're, if you're nursing some rage at the, the educational industrial complex or whatever. So despite his irritation, Big Rush clearly did love his son. And when Little Rush was 16, his dad some of his local clout to get his son a part time job at the local radio station.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Rush started doing what you'd today call internship, you know, fetching coffee, cleaning up, handling odd tasks here and there. And eventually he was allowed to actually introduce and play records on air. The summer before his senior year of high school, Big Rush paid for his son to attend a six week radio engineering course in Dallas. This was a big moment for Rush. He was away from home for the first time, living in a boarding house. He started smoking cigarettes, thank God. And he got a license that allowed him to. And he got a license that allowed him to actually run the radio without adult supervision. Once he had this station management let him hang out alone all weekend and weekdays after school, playing records and for the first time presenting himself to an audience on air. So he gets started and this is one of those things his dad, clearly there are some abusive elements of their relationship. His dad is, is not supportive of Rush's radio career, but also is like his dad is, doesn't think it's a good idea, but also enables him. Right. Like not just gets him a job, but pays for him to get educated. So this is not a guy, I'm sure, you know, he had his frustrations with his father. This is not a guy who grows up with a dad who just doesn't get him and refuses to support him. This is a very supportive upbringing this kid has, even though his father's not. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So Rush, you know, becomes kind of famous within his, you know, the teen set at his town because he's the gu with the radio show and in high school and he was not at all political at this point. His most well known bit involved reading the daily beauty tips that the Associated Press sent out back then, which he like and he would like kind of mock the beauty Tips because he thought it was silly that the AP was sending out daily beauty tips, which is fair. It is. That is a silly thing for the AP to do. Now, Rush's professional idol at this point was a guy named Larry Lujak. Lujak, a Chicago DJ who was famous for his sense of humor and comedic stylings. Rush later called him the only person I ever copied. Lujak was known for audibly shuffling papers during his monologues in different bits, a tactic Limbaugh copied and used repeatedly through his decades on air. And, as in kind of.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That was like his signature bit.

[Robert Evans]

No, no, no, it wasn't a bit, but it was like a thing he would do to emphasize that, like, I've got evidence or I've got information here. You know, it was a thing Rush. And it was a big Rush Limbaugh thing, you know? Know, it's. It's how you convince people who maybe aren't that credible that you. You have good information. Right.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Like, look at. Yes, he's been handed. He's been handed this ream of paper that has information on it. So it's true.

[Robert Evans]

But.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

But Lujak was not a political guy, right? He was.

[Robert Evans]

He was not. And he fucking hated Rush Limbaugh. Because when Rush got famous in the early 90s, Rush was like, yeah, Larry Lujak is the only man I ever copied. And they asked Lujak about it, and his response was basically, that guy.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Bless you. Bless you, Larry.

[Robert Evans]

Good man. Yeah, yeah. You can't. You can't pick who finds you influential, you know? Yeah. So back in those days, again, being a radio DJ was pretty much the coolest thing you could do. And Rush's side job made him very popular at high school. He even signed autographs on a few occasions. The work was intoxicating, and Rush seemed to know at once that this was what he wanted to dedicate. Dedicate his life to doing. Obviously, his ambitions did not make his father happy. And during Rush's last year of childhood, his dad would constantly yell at him for wanting to waste his life on the radio. No amount of paternal ill will was enough to pull Rush Limbaugh away from his dream, though he was miserable at home and his father with his father. After graduating, he enrolled in a local college just to please the old man. But he couldn't actually bring himself to go to school very often. Sometimes his mother would drive him to college just to make sure that he went. Rush came of age during one of the most exciting and tumultuous periods in U.S. history. I mean, he's he's literally becoming an adult in like 1968. I think, like some shit went down that year. You know, there's a lot of teenagers doing some exciting things now. Given how Rush turned out, you might expect him to have been active and involved in the politics of his time, but he was not. And to hear him tell it now, or to hear him tell it when he related this to his biographer, the civil rights movement and the Vietnam years basically all passed him by. He never attended political rallies. He only dimly remembers hearing of Bobby Kennedy's death. When Martin Luther King Jr. Was assassinated, his radio station asked him to help send out news reports for the local NBC affiliate because there were uprisings all around the country. And Rush did this, but he didn't actually engage with the news. He was not actually interested in what was happening. He was just interested in kind of the business of how news was disseminated.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Quote, this is what he said later. I remember talking to them about the broadcast business. NBC. I was 17, playing records on the radio, not commenting on news. I don't recall feeling any concern. So that is how, again, a lot of privilege. There are massive race based uprisings in a number of US Cities. Hundreds of thousands of National Guard troops are called up as. After the civil rights leader is, is assassinated. The country is on the brink of open conflict. And Rush Limbaugh, I don't give a fuck. Like, I just want to play my records, you know, wow, he's just a rich white kid, you know, in the middle of Missouri. He doesn't give a shit.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's so wild to think about someone being alive at that time.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And not having a feeling either way about anything that's going on.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. He's not, doesn't even have strong hard right sympathies. He just doesn't give a fuck about it. Right.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That is like a kind of privilege that I can't even begin to fathom.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it is important that like, he's not just taking the right wing side of things where like, well, yeah, fuck Martin Luther King. He was a commie. He just doesn't care. Like none of this even makes it into his mind.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Like the idea that you would say Martin Luther King, who is that again?

[Robert Evans]

Which guy? Bobby. Who got killed? Kennewat.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Dimly Aware. That dimly aware was assassinated.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. It's. It's quite a thing. So I'm going to quote now from a write up in the New York Times that ably summarizes rush Limbaugh's early 20s, quote, love of radio eventually won out over formal education and he dropped out of a local college after a year. Appalling. His parents then began a long, checkered odyssey. Typical of radio, Limbaugh held and lost jobs in several cities, working under different names and broadcast styles. He was Rusty Sharp and Jeff Christie. He was a dj, a newsreader, a talk host. In each place, he developed components of what would later emerge as the Limbaugh style. In Pittsburgh, he was a prankster, convincing listeners that he could see them through a new experimental picture phone. So he's kind of like a drive time morning dj. Like, hey, yeah, we're gonna. I don't know, I can't do the DJ voice, but like playing like sound bits and doing, doing gags. Like he's, he's very like, not even really a shock jock yet because he's not like combat that has. That's like starting to evolve in this period of time. Yeah, I did find some audio from run of Rush's very first broadcasts in 1974 while he was still in Pittsburgh. And I think it's interesting because in it you can hear Rush in mid transition from that drive time DJ voice to the voice of the Rush Limbaugh who would help breed a modern American fascist movement. So here he is on WXZ Solid Rock and Gold Show. So without further ado, here is rush Limbaugh in 1974. Also appearing was Shannon opening the show be Billy Cooks, Rainbows and Gypsies. See the exciting Dave Adolphin, rated pg. Now showing at the Artmore Drive in Bellevue, Bethel Cinema, Camp Horn Drive in Carnegie Cinema and Cinema World. Day of the Dolphin, also showing at The Hampton Plaza, McKee Cinema, Oaks, Pen Hills Region and Roche in theaters. See Day of the Dolphin now at the east to Weekley, South Hill, South Park Drive in South Hills Drive in and Sunset View Drive in. I certainly hope you people are writing.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

All of this down.

[Robert Evans]

Don't miss a Day of the Dolphin. It is now showing. So very silly as all radio from the 1970s sounds today. Right. As most radio today sounds. But also like there's. You would never have guessed based on his early performances that he was going to become what he became. Right.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

No, I mean, look, he. He has, has undeniably great voice. Great voice, you know, very good at imparting information, like actual factual information. This movie is for sure playing here at this time.

[Robert Evans]

Day of the Dolphin. Absolutely. I can't wait to see it.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, it's the exciting movie Day of the Dolphin, but the. That he's just straight reading things that you cannot misinterpret in any way. If, if only he'd stuck to that. But yeah, yeah, I, I, it's so, I guess I don't want to get ahead of us, get ahead of ourselves, but the idea that this guy would not be content doing just this is like, when does it, the idea that it turns like, I don't know.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I'm sorry, we'll get to that. But I think it's fair to say this is what he loved, and he would have been perfectly happy if he could have made a good. We're getting to kind of like a Hitler at art school story where, like, yeah, maybe if he'd gotten to keep being a drive time radio dj, things would have been better.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You know, I had a, I had a conversation with a friend of mine who, who also does podcasts and radio, and for neither of us, it is our thing, our first thing, but we shared a, we, we had a conversation where we, we shared our love of being good at reading copy. Like, when you have to do ads, there is something that's weirdly satisfying about, like, like, oh, I sound like a guy on the radio. Like, I'm doing a good job at reading this and making it sound natural and whatever. And it's like, there it, like there's, isn't that enough? Isn't that enough that there's, there's, it is a good feeling when you nail an ad read?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's, I mean, I think, I think everyone who does a, who, who, who does a job that, like, I think pretty much everyone who has worked, there's a joy in professional competence of any type. You know, if you're working, you know, if you're like, if you're, if you're running like the cash, a cashier at a grocery, right? When you get really good at bagging, like, it's this, the, the, the kind of ecstasy of competence, right, where you can kind of lose yourself in a task, you know, and be like, I'm as good at this thing as I can be. Even if you don't like the job, there's a satisfaction in that. And I think Rush was happy in this period doing. He wasn't rich, he wasn't influential, but he was doing a thing he loved well, and he was happy in this, in the, in this period in the early 70s. So his early material in Pittsburgh is interesting to me because it's exactly the opposite of what you'd expect from him. One of his reocc bits was the Friar Shuck radio Ministry of the Air, where he relentlessly mocked the radio preachers that he saw coming into the station on Sundays. He thought these guys were grifters and he hated them. The center of this bit was that no matter your problem, God would solve it if you'd send the radio preacher a hundred dollars. That's interesting to me. And this is like a real, like, running theme in his early career is he made fun of preachers all the time of the exact kind of religious grift characters that later helped make him a wealthy man. It's very interesting to me. Yeah. There's also. He also would read letters from fans, and at one point, he read a letter that he said was from a young woman who wanted to be a DJ and was worried that her gender would hold her back. Here's what he told her on the air. This is interesting to me, too. You just have to master two techniques, and I'm going to explain them right now. Number one, the use of microphone. To use it, simply turn the microphone to the on position and talk into it. The second with which is the biggie, is queuing up the record. Get the record you want to play, take it out of the appropriate shuck, slap it onto the turntable, take the arm and the needle, place it on the outside edge of the record, then turn the record till you hear the beginning of the record. Back it up a quarter of a turn, and when you get through talking, the record will start. After you have mastered those two techniques, girls, change your sex. And you can interpret that a couple of ways. Upset about the mansplaining, about how to turn on a microphone. And then he goes, oh, wait, you can't do it. Well, that, that. I think there's two ways to interpret this. One of them is what you've said, Sophie, that he was just being incredibly sexist. One of them is that he might. He might have been acknowledging anyone could do this job, but you won't be able to as a woman because of sexism in the industry. And I'm really not sure which one he was going for there. Yeah, it could be both. It could be both.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

There is a kind of lording it over, like, you know what? This is a dumb job, but you're still not allowed to do it.

[Robert Evans]

You're still not allowed to do it. Ladies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably. Probably accurate. It's probably a bit of both. Robert. You know what all ladies are allowed to do Products. Is it ads, Sophie? Is it participate in capitalism as consumers? Yes, it is participating capitalism. Well, ladies, stick it to Rush Limbaugh by engaging positively with the system he spent his life propping. All right. Shit. You know, I didn't like the phrase stick it to Rush Limbaugh very much. Neither did I. Sophie, here's some hats. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's a new year, and we're all asking ourselves versions of the same question. What do I want my 2025 story to be? Every January brings you 365 blank pages just waiting to be filled in 2025. Maybe you're ready for a plot twist. Or maybe there's a part of your story that you've been wanting to revive. Life isn't about resolutions that fade by February. It's about becoming the author of your own life. You can think of therapy as an editorial partner, helping you write new chapters and create the meaningful story you deserve to live. And if you're considering therapy, you might consider giving better help a try. BetterHelp is fully online making therapy affordable and convenient. Serving over 5 million people worldwide. You can access a diverse network of more than 30,000 credentialed therapists with a wide range of specialties. And you can easily switch therapists anytime at no additional cost. Cost. So write your story with better help. Visit betterhelp.com behind to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp h lp.com behind to have a murder as gruesome as Jake Beasley's.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Doesn'T happen very often down here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder. Murder.

[Robert Evans]

I am confident that Julie Begley is guilty.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

This case, the more I learned about.

[Robert Evans]

It, the more I'm scratching my head.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Something's not right.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Lauren Bright.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Pacheco. Murder on Songbird Road dives into the.

[Robert Evans]

Conviction of a mother of four who.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there. I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you stabbed me that many times, you would have blood splatter. Where's the change of clothes? She found out she was pregnant in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific.

[Robert Evans]

Nobody has gotten justice yet and that's what I wish people would understand.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really Know, really Podcast.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Our mission is to get the true answers to life.

[Robert Evans]

Life's baffling questions, like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

We got the answer.

[Robert Evans]

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer, and you never know who's going to drop by.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's Brian Cranston is with us. How are you? Hello.

[Robert Evans]

My friend Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wayne Knight, welcome to really no, really, sir.

[Robert Evans]

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That's the opening.

[Robert Evans]

Really? No, really?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, really?

[Robert Evans]

No, really. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win $500, a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason Bobblehead. It's called really no really? And you can find it on the.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Iheartradio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever.

[Robert Evans]

You get your podcasts.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

We want to speak out, we want to raise awareness, and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn and I'm an investigative journalist. When a group of models from the UK wanted my help, I went on a journey deep into the heart of the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model, lingerie topless. I said, yes, please, because at the center of this murky world is an alleged predator. You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.

[Robert Evans]

He's just spinning the web for you.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

To get trapped in it. He's everywhere and has been everywhere. It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated. Together we're going to expose him and the rotten industry he works in.

[Robert Evans]

In.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him. Listen to the bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

Ah, we're back. We're back from those ads. And Paul, I can see the glow on your face that only comes upon a man's face the first time that he gets to help advertise the fine products and services brought to us by the people at Raytheon. On. Are you feeling good, Paul? About now? Now you are inextricably tied to wonderful products like the R9X knife missile. Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

As a boy growing up in Philadelphia, I, I dreamed of advertising for missiles.

[Robert Evans]

That's, that's what everyone wants to do, right?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Since cavemen painted on walls. They dreamed of Raytheon. And now we are in the privileged position of getting to sell their products. And I, I couldn't be happier.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Here's what sucks. Raytheon is such a cool name.

[Robert Evans]

It is a great name.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's so good.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I mean this. In this ongoing bit I do, I often joke like, the R9X missile, I think is made by Lockheed. Raytheon's guidance chips, I believe are in it. To be fair, it's just the name. Raytheon is such a good shady defense industry. Like, it's the name of a company that ends the world. Right. Like you're talking about like, like a, you know, they're going to make a Skynet that kills us all at some point. Their name is just too on point to not be. Yeah. So back to. Back to Limbaugh. Rush was popular in Pittsburgh and his bosses appreciated everything but his long windedness. They repeatedly sent him memos that stated, shut up and play the records. And for a while he was content to mostly just do that. But in 1974, the economy took a nosedive and Rush was fired. He had to move back home with his family, where he lived for seven miserable months. His dad repeatedly badgered him to move on and start a real career. But Rush was committed to radio and eventually he landed a new gig in Kansas City where he started taking listener phone calls for the first time. This was the dawn of the era of insult comedy. A sort of mean spirited comedy based on pranks and, you know, primarily executed by shock jocks. Guys bodied by Howard Stern, really, who entertained via ostentatious cruelty. Hungry?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Can I ask you this? I'm sorry. And I don't know if. I don't know if you'll, if you'll know or not like talk rate talk radio. How much of a thing is it at this point of people calling in to radio stations to have conversations with broadcasters?

[Robert Evans]

It's starting at this point, right. This is really kind of the birth of talk radio. And, and Rush is on the ground floor of that. Right.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Does it, does it start with sports or does it start with. With issues?

[Robert Evans]

I think it starts with issues. It starts with there. Before what we know as talk radio, you had had people who would take calls and talk about politics both on TV and on the radio. And one of the things that Rush changes to skip ahead a little bit, is that those guys had mostly been Interchangeable. Right. They were just sort of fielding calls and engaging with, with callers. Rush. And that kind of turns into, with these shock jocks, more of kind of a comedy based entertainment. You have these pranks, you have insults, you have all this stuff. So it kind of, it, it evolves out of a thing that had been going on for much longer.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Right. It's an extension of the idea of the, the original idea of the DJ was maybe a personality, but his main thrust was, I'm giving you this music that you crave. And that's why you like me, is because I'm gonna maybe get, I'm gonna maybe get tracks before other people get them. And you're gonna hear, you're gonna hear this stuff first. But there's still a thing of, of. It's not about my personality necessarily. It's mainly about I am the. I, I am, I'm, I'm, I'm the Santa Claus of music. I'm giving you these things.

[Robert Evans]

Yes.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And that's why you like me.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. And I have access to them first and all this stuff. Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

So Rush kind of as this, you know, he kind of sees the writing on the wall. Right. He loses his gig as a traditional dj because that is starting to become less profitable. Right. And there's, you know, in Jerry. Well, the economy's taking a shitter. So he, he, he realizes that kind of the way things are going is more based around personalities and comedy and entertaining people, and he starts to pivot to that. So this is, there's a. Well, an interesting quote that Rush himself wrote in one of his many interminable books about how he felt about kind of pivoting to insult comedy. Quote, I found out something about myself, something that was quite disturbing. I found out I was really, really good at people. For example, the topic one day was, when you die, how do you want to go? I want to go the cheapest and most natural way I can. One nice lady caller from Independence, Missouri, said, my response was, easy, have your husband throw you in a trash bag. And then in the Missouri river with the rest of the garbage. When I went home after, after a day of this, I didn't like myself.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Is that being. I don't know if that's being good at insulting people.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that's not really insult.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That's just, that's just ready to insult people.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Yeah, it is, though. One of the things people will state, and I can't categorically say this, but it seems accurate based on my recollections of the show is, even when people would disagree with Rush on the air, he wasn't an asshole to them. Like, he was not cruel to, to his callers to their faces. Right? He would say cruel things about liberals, but when people would call in, he would not like, call them monsters. He would not like. He, he, he, he seems to have genuinely not liked insulting people to their faces or at least over, like directly insulting people over, over, over the phone or whatever. While he was disturbed by this, he was not disturbed by racism, mainly racism against black people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, here's where we're going. At one point during his call in show, he claimed he had a black collar and he claimed to not be able to understand the man's accent. Limbaugh hung up on this black man after saying, take that bone out of your nose and call me back. Which is, was this all racism? Or, I mean, he says it was. We'll, we'll get to that. At another point, he asked his audience, have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson? Wow. Now, during a 1990 interview, after he had kind of risen to political prominence, Newsweek asked Limbaugh if he thought these statements had been racist. He replied, you may interpret it as that, but I know, honest to God, that's not how I intended it at all. All, Gee, don't get me on in this one. I am the least racist host you'll ever find. Now, if we're going to try to analyze Rush from the length of his career, I think we can say two things. He's probably being honest when he said that he felt bad about insulting callers because he did not continue to do that. He is probably being dishonest when he says that he's not racist because he continued to say incredibly fucking racist things about black people consistently throughout his entire career. Career.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, I mean the, the I, the number one indication that someone is racist is when they say they're the least racist. I have. Has that ever been said by, by a non racist person? Usually when it's always got to be, it's always got to be, not only am I not racist, I am the least racist person you're ever going to meet. Like, you don't. Maybe don't go that far.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Because it's so, so easily disproved.

[Robert Evans]

Also followed by the I don't see color people. I don't see color. I would say I think most of the people I think I don't see color people tend to be performative Obama voters. The I am the least racist person in the world. People tend to have strong opinions on why they should be able to say the N word. Like that would be the split between the right and the left version of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And both of you are fucking racist, so shut the fuck up.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You mean me and Robert, right?

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes. She's. She's found out about our opinions on Lichtenstein, which I refuse to apologize for. In the fucking Swedes. My God, the Swedes.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

You do have issues with the Swedes. I have huge issues. Particularly Blue Swede. What did UGA chaka mean? Why did you say that at the start of that song? Okay, sorry. Rush was. Rush was still at this point in his career, career completely apolitical. His roommate and close friend at the time later told an interviewer he was scary smart about everything, but I can't recall us take talking much about current events. He was funny, though. I was an audience of one. Limbaugh's years in Kansas City were not super successful, and he seems to have recalled them somewhat sourly. As the New York Times summarized, Limbaugh likes to say, everything I did in Kansas City, I failed at. He got fired from the station and quit radio forever to become an executive with a Kansas City Royals baseball team. Five years later, he quit the Royals, convinced his career there was stymied, and went back to radio, this time as a news commentator. Again, he got fired for being too controversial. Also in Kansas City, he married twice, both marriages eventually ending in divorce.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

What are the. Do we know what the sources of the. What the. What the type of controversies?

[Robert Evans]

Yes, we're about to get into that.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, okay.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we're about to get into.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Sorry, Paul, come on.

[Robert Evans]

So it was in Kansas City where Rush Limbaugh, conservative commentator, made his first public appearance after getting pushed out of the Royals. No one really liked him there. He had one friend who was on the team and that's why he got to keep the job. And when that guy got traded, they pushed him out because they all hated him. So after getting pushed out of the Royals, he got a gig at kmbz, a local station. He started satirizing what he considered to be a left wing caricature of a right wing political commentator. Right. The initial right wing Rush Limbaugh was satire and he was being purposefully controversial and unreasonably extreme in order to make a comedic point. This was a joke. Initially, this did not go over well with his middle of the road Mormon station manager, but it made Limbaugh popular with his audience. See, Limbaugh had caught on to the fact that radio was in the middle of a revolution. This was the era where the first big shock jocks, men like Don Imus and Howard Stern, began their estate sense to stardom. I found a wonderful write up about this era on Long Reads which argues that the first radio shock jock was a talk radio star named Joel pine in the 1950s. And I'm going to quote from this now. We might do an episode on Pine at some point. Quote his unconventional style, dressed up to dress down pinkos and women's libbers and riff on rather than read reports, was neither news nor entertainment. It seemed to be best described well, the New York Times and Time both did anyway as an electronic peep church show. The personality Free Press of the time considered Walter Cronkite the most trusted man in America and Johnny Carson the funniest. But Pine, with a syndicated show on more than 200 radio outlets, was the most Machiavellian when it comes to manipulating media icons of talk. Author Donna Halpert told Smithsonian magazine he was the father of them all. Pine briefly descended from his soapbox in the mid-60s for a week's vacation after bringing a gun to his show during the Watts ran riots, suggesting the world wasn't quite ready for his kind of conservative appeal. So Pine is doing the Rush Limbaugh bit in the 50s and early 60s, but America is not ready for that yet. Right. Even 50s America's like, this guy's racist to me, like, and a fucking lunatic. Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

So now, just so I understand Russia's this satire that he was doing.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

The idea was here is what left wing people think right wing people are like. And the point he is trying to make is they see us as. They see the left wing sees the right wing as extreme and hateful and, you know, racist and closed minded. Like, is that. Is that the point he was trying to make? Make?

[Robert Evans]

I think so, because he even says, like, it was a satire. Right. Like, that's how it's portrayed in his biography, that he was kind of. His personality was satiric in nature. And that's kind of the only way I can interpret it is that he was trying to satirize what, like kind of the loony right winger, you know? Okay.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

But through the, through the lens of here's how the left sees them.

[Robert Evans]

That was never said directly.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, it sounds like it's a protective phrase of like, I was not satirizing these guys directly. I was not satirizing right wing people. I was satirizing how left wing people see right wing people.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, that is how I have interpreted what I've read.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that does sound like a base covering kind of thing.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, a bit. I do think he started not believing everything he said. It started as a joke. And him intentionally to provoke controversy. Because controversy, controversy brings in listeners and gets, Gets attention, gets word of mouth. That's why he was doing it. And the story of Rush Limbaugh is these, these kind of purposefully absurdly extreme satire becomes what he really believes and is, you know.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yes. So he's, he's an apolitical guy who's like, this is, this is what. This is what politics sounds like to me, I guess.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I think so. And I, I, yeah, that. That's how I interpret it. We'll go over that more. So obviously, Pine, kind of the first right wing radio shock jock had peaked too early. It kind of, I guess to steal a phrase from the Nazis, shown his power level too much early during the Watts riots. And he got kicked off the air rush, though, started getting political at exactly the perfect time. This was the early 1980s. Howard Stern came onto the scene in 84. Don Imus had risen to prominence in the 1970s. Imus was another guy myself dad listened to a lot growing up. Imus in the morning was like a big part of getting ready for school. Don Imus is going to be in the fucking tv.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And you were like, this guy's having so much fun and I have to go to prison.

[Robert Evans]

I have to go to prison. This guy's having fun. He's talking about nappy headed hoes, which was like the phrase that he. I forget what it was in reference to, but like, that's what got him in trouble.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It was a women's basketball team.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it was a women's basketball team because Dynamus was also very racist.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Sure.

[Robert Evans]

So, yeah. The world was still not quite ready for the Rush Limbaugh we knew during while he was like, starting to be political at kmbz. But a diet version of what he would become was now acceptable. And one man who recognized the potential of Limbaugh schtick was Norm Woodruff, a consultant to the station who became the acting program director at Sacramento's KFBK network. KFBK needed a new right wing talk radio host after firing their previous one, a guy you mentioned at the start of this episode, episode named Morton Downey Jr. Morton was extremely popular and he was very extreme in his antics. This had allowed his local station in Sacramento to repeatedly draw national Attention because he would say purposefully controversial things. This did backfire on Morton eventually when he told a racist on air joke about a Chinaman, which was a thinly veiled attack on a local city councilman named Tom Chin. Downey Jr. Was fired and went into the world of television. Television where he would somehow simultaneously blaze a trail for both Tucker Carlson and Jerry Springer. We will do an episode on him someday because he's a very influential guy. But his for today he matters because his firing number one, his success proved that being a purposefully controversial right wing bigot was really profitable for radio station. And because when he got fired, Sacramento had a hole in the station's roster that they needed to fill with another racist right wing shithead. Just one who was not quite as racist as Morton Downey Jr. Rush Limbaugh stepped up and said, not being quite as racist as that guy is my middle name.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

For now.

[Robert Evans]

For now. Eventually I will be much worse. So Rush Limbaugh moved to Sacramento. When he started at the station, his new boss Woodruff told him, we want controversy, but don't make it up. If you actually think something, if you actually believe it, you can tell people why, we'll back you up. But if you're going to say stuff just to make people mad, if all you want to do is rabble rouse, if all you want to do is offend and get noticed, that's not what we're interested in and we won't back you up. He was clearly lying. I think this was ass covering by the station. Right?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. But they would never, would never ever push back on his bigotry. But you know who does push back on bigotry?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Paul Ads.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, the products and services that support this podcast. To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Jake Beasley's doesn't happen very often down here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Robert Evans]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

This case, the more I learned about.

[Robert Evans]

It, the more I'm scratching my head.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Something's not right. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Murder on Songbird Road dives into the.

[Robert Evans]

Conviction of a mother of four who.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there. I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you step somebody that many times, you have blood splatter. Where's the change of clothes? She found out she was pregnant in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific.

[Robert Evans]

Nobody has gotten justice yet. And that's what I wish people would understand.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the really no really podcast, our mission is to get the.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

True answers to life's baffling questions.

[Robert Evans]

Like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

We got the answer.

[Robert Evans]

Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk gives us the answer. We talk with the scientist who figured out if your dog truly loves you and the one bringing back the woolly mammoth. Plus, does Tom Cruise really do his own stunts? His stuntman reveals the answer. And you never know who's gonna drop by.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Mr. Bryan Cranston is with us.

[Robert Evans]

How are you?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Hello.

[Robert Evans]

My friend Wayne Knight about Jurassic Park.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wayne Knight, welcome to really no really, Sir.

[Robert Evans]

Bless you all. Hello, Newman. And you never know when Howie Mandel might just stop by to talk about judging. Really?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That's the opening.

[Robert Evans]

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[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, really no Really.

[Robert Evans]

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[Paul F. Tompkins]

Iheartradio app on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out, we want to raise awareness, and we want this to stop. Wow. Very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn and I'm an investigative journalist. When a group of models from the UK wanted my help, I went on a journey deep into the heart of the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. Lingerie topless.

[Robert Evans]

I said yes, please.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Because at the center of this murky world is an alleged predator. You know who he is because of his pattern of behavior.

[Robert Evans]

He's just spinning the web for you.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

To get trapped in it. He's everywhere. And how has been everywhere? It's so much worse and so much more widespread than I had anticipated. Together we're going to expose him and the rotten industry he works in. It's not just me. We're an army in comparison to him. Listen to the bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

So we're back. And at this point, Rush Limbaugh has launched himself as a right wing shock jock and he is an instant hit. Zeve Chaffetz Writes, quote, the station let him go on the air solo, unencumbered by sidekicks or guests, and encouraged his highly personal right wing monologues. For the first time in his career, he was marketed heavily and aggressively. There were billboards around town showing a finger hitting a button, captioned, how would you like to punch Rush Limbaugh? Rush was so pleased by these that he sent Brian a snapshot. Morton Downey Jr. Had been a big star in Sacramento with a 5 share of the Martin market, 5% of people listening to the radio in a given 15 minute segment. Limbaugh tripled that. He was sharp edged but good humored. The new morning host espouses many of the same beliefs of his predecessor. Morton Downey Jr. Reported the Sacramento Bee. But he skates a little further from the edge of the hole in the ice. Rush was rewarded for his success with a six figure salary, an estimable income in the mid-1980s, even by his father's standards. More important, for the first time in his life, he really mattered. He was invited to deliver speeches just like Big Rush. He was an occasional commentator on television, television and wrote newspaper columns. Politicians and celebrities sought him out. He and Michelle, his wife at the time, bought a new house and furnished it with products he had, he endorsed on air. So he's a hit. You know, this is the start of, and it's really just almost straight up from there for his, the rest of his career. He finds his niche and he runs with it again. He's, he's a very intelligent, talented man. Anybody else, you'll find the big Rush part really funny. It is very funny. It's very funny. An hour is, it's still funny. Now I have long argued that Sacramento is the very mouth of hell itself. And the fact that Rush Limbaugh first saw success as a right wing firebrand there serves to support my hypothesis. Again, his conscious decision as an entertainer was to be a satirical version of a right wing polemicist, deliberately exaggerating the things he did believe for comedic effect. The audience thought he was funny, but I don't think they got the joke. And there is some evidence for this. This when an Ohio evangelist, I would.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Say there's a ton, a lot of evidence.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So I think the earliest evidence for this, I should say, is when an Ohio evangelist very publicly claimed that the theme song from Mr. Ed held a satanic message when played backwards. You know, we're kind of talking about the satanic panic period during this. Rush found this ridiculous. And again, he had a long history of mocking the evangelical religious right. So when he heard this, he told his listeners that a Slim Witness Whitman recording also contained a backwards message of from Satan. Zeve Chaffetz writes that to his delight, many Limbaugh listeners took Limbaugh at his word and flooded the station with phone calls, promising to destroy their Slim Whitman albums to keep the devil out of the house. Rush considered this a hilarious plank prank. He did not apologize or, as far as I know, correct the record. So we see in this, he's joking, right? He is not. He, again, his whole history is mocking these people. He does not believe this, but he doesn't correct people because it gets. He realizes, oh, they're engaged, they're destroying stuff. That means I have power, right? I think he even found it kind of. It might have been something that kind of addicted him to this. This idea that, like, I can make. Even if I'm deliberately being absurd and lying, I can make people take action based on those absurdities. That's got to be addictive. And I think it is for him.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It is absolutely undeniable. And especially, like, if you spent time on Twitter and if you've ever been, like, I have on occasion, occasion deliberately stupid on Twitter and gotten sincere replies to something that is so obviously a joke. So obviously a joke, it absolutely is fun. There's no way around that. There's no way around that. Seeing people take you at your word when you say something that's so patently absurd is. It's joyful. It does give you, like, a real jolt.

[Robert Evans]

And there's a. This is a bit of a different case, but I think there's some similarities. So last summer, you know, I was covering a lot of the protests in Portland, Oregon, including doing a lot of live streaming. And very early on, they. The police put a fence up around the police station, and there would be marches where, like, a couple of thousand people would march to the fence and somebody would, like, touch the fence, and the police would tear gas, like, six square blocks of traffic. And I started calling it the sacred fence. And the joke, like the comment that I was making is that the police are endangering the lives of thousands of citizens to protect a fence because it's sacred to them. Right? That went viral within the city, and there were dozens of protests at the sacred fence, as everyone called it, including numerous attempts to tear it down. And I know that the way that I framed it had a significant impact on a lot of people getting hurt, damaging offense, getting arrested. And it. It. It was both kind of intoxicating and it also scared the hell out of me. It was one of the reasons why I pulled back to some extent on some aspects of my coverage, because I got really worried about the kind of impact that you can have on people by doing that sort of thing. I didn't want to be. It was very concerning to me, but it was also. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't an element of it, that I wanted to do more stuff like that, and I didn't, but I wanted to, you know, But.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And that's. That is the key. The key difference of, you know, you seeing something that catches. Catches fire in a. Forgive the phrasing, but catch fire in a. In a charged situation, and how easily people can glom onto something when everything's so churned up and then realizing, like, oh, words have power. I have to be careful. Rather than words have power. Here we go.

[Robert Evans]

Here we go. Let's use it to sell cold. Yeah. So Russia's domestic life while he's enduring all this professional success, his domestic life, life with his. I think she was his second. I think she was his third wife, actually. I don't know. He had a couple. He had a lot of wives, I think. Actually, no, this was his second wife, his domestic wife. Life with his second life at this period was less than joyful. He was famous and popular, constantly fetid for dinners and invited to big, big events. And his wife Michelle was much less successful. She quit her job to be his assistant, but she hated the work.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

God, that sounds horrible.

[Robert Evans]

It's a nightmare. That gives me the kiwi jeebies. Yeah. Yeah. They were not a good fit. Michelle loved the outdoors. Rush Limbaugh despised them. Two of his colleagues tell a story from around this time of how they convinced him to go rafting once that I think is telling about Rush Limbaugh's personal. So this is one of Rush's friends talking about the time they took Rush Limbaugh on a. On a rafting trip in whatever river it is that goes through Sacramento. Quote, it's a very, very mild ride. Bob gave Russian or and told him to observe. Oh, you're gonna really love this.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You have to know. Before I start the story, you have to know we're on a baby river.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Bob gave Russian ore and told him to absorb the blow of the canyon wa. To give us a little spring back into the current. Rush panicked, stuck the ore out, his arm stiff as a board, and upon impact, he fell overboard. We got rushed back in the raft, and the next day, he spent the entire three hours of his show talking about his horrendous Whitewater grapple with the Grim Reaper. What a fucking baby. I've had people fucking shoot at me and I've, I've had people shell me with artillery and I've never spent three hours talking about it. You fucking baby. Baby. So Sacramento is where Limbaugh started picking up what would become a voluminous list of mostly self inflicted nicknames. He was El Rushbow, the all knowing, all caring, all sensitive, sensing Maha Rushi. He was also a harmless little fuzzball and the epitome of morality and virtue. He started claiming that his show was hosted by the EIB or Excellence in Broadcasting Network Network, which did not exist. This joke mainly served as a vehicle for Rush to express his grandiosity. He declared himself on the cutting edge, edge of societal evolution, swore that he was serving humanity, and had himself introduced as having talent on loan from God. His opinions were quote, documented to be Almost always right 97.9% of the time by the Sullivan Group, which also did not exist. And again, he's joking. And also at a certain point he starts meaning all of this very literally. Yes, right. Like that's kind of how narcissists work. So it may surprise people to know that Rush to hear that Rush Limbaugh's career was launched into the stratosphere in Sacramento. Because California is to most people outside of California at least a bastion of liberal politics. Now you actually live and spend time in the state you, you know, like for example, if you've ever been to fucking, I don't know what is that? Orange county, right? Or if you've been up near Reading, there's a shitload, like there are more right wing Californians than there are right wingers than there are in like a number of US States, right? Like California has a ton of right wingers and it has a long powerful conservative political tradition. California gave us Ronald Reagan, it gave us Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, who in one of the most surreal turns in political history, is now among the only rational voices on the right in the United States. So yeah, California has a powerful right wing, and yes, they are, especially in the last 20 something years, overwhelmed by the much more numerous liberals and leftists. But in this fact is one of the hints to Rush Limbaugh's rise. You see, Sacramento is located kind of north of the center of California, not far from some of the most productive farmland in the country. It is also not far from north central California places like Reading, which are right Wing strongholds. The conservatives who live in these areas tend to be very extreme in their beliefs. And that's partly a response to the liberal and left wing like government that they live under. They see, and this is not, they are not entirely or even largely wrong in seeing this. They see themselves oppressed by many of the rules schools liberals in the cities put in terms of things like gas taxes, right? If you're living in, if you're a farmer, you know, in central or Northern California, a gas tax that is reasonable for people in la, San Diego, San Francisco, Sacramento is a, a hardship on you. And you're not contributing to the kind of pollution in the cities that the gas taxes are meant to fight. You know, the strict gun laws and stuff. There's a lot of things, reasons these people have to be angry and Rush Limbaugh became their voice. So these, these, this kind of infuriated, very radical right wing who hates the liberals and left that govern California have a voice in Rush Limbaugh. He obliges their sensibilities with a ceaseless stream of attacks on liberal California. And that's what makes him huge, is because there's millions of right wingers in California and Rush Limbaugh becomes like, yeah, he's their voice. You know, you might even be able to argue that nowhere but California could have produced Rush Limbaugh as he became. Yeah, so I'm going to quote from the book Rush Limbaugh an army of One here. He mocked the multicultural style of California by proposing to keep uglo Americans off the streets. Militant feminists became feminazis. The green movement was full of environmental wackos. The American, American left became commie pinko liberals and the residents of Rio Linda California were synonymous with stupidity. A ringing deadloc Dedalit Dedalit introduced news updates on what he regarded as the absurdities of liberal activism. Liberals, of course hated him, which he found inspiring. When they attacked him as a dimwit, he responded by claiming that he was so much smarter than his critics that he could vanquish them with half my brain tied behind my back. Just to make it fair. Before long, Rush was too big to stay in Sacramento, which is again the very mouth of hell itself. He was introduced to Ed McLaughlin, the former head of ABC Radio who had started his own big radio company based out of New York City. McLaughlin had listened to Rush's show and decided it had the potential to go national. He offered Russia partnership and after some haggling, Rush agreed. He moved to New York and made the EIB network a reality. Rush was 37 years old at this point and 21 years into a career of doing almost nothing but broadcasting on the radio again. The voice of the so called populist American. Right. Never did anything but radio. Really?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

In 1988 he launched a new version of the Rush Limbaugh show, this time for an audience across the nation. It's sort of hard to find his stuff from the late 1980s, but I found this guest appearance he did not long after in 1991 on another colleague show for the same network. It gives you an idea of where his radio personality was by this point and of how he presented himself. Right. Of how he kind of introduced himself anytime he was coming on the air. So that's, that's. We're going to play this now. This is kind of the birth of the Rush Limbaugh we all know, we all know now one of radio's great.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Broadcasters and he's with us today in the studio. We invited him. Rush Limbaugh this morning.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, hey, hey, Thrill. It's about time.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You know, I smoked a little dope.

[Robert Evans]

To get ready for this in here.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And I'm ready to go, man.

[Robert Evans]

To tie one brain behind your back.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

No, half my brain tied behind my back.

[Robert Evans]

Just to make it fair. Well, I'll tell you one thing as.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I use my talent on loan from God. Oh man. I heard you got a little loan from ABC Cafes when you renegotiated your new contract. No, I loaned them some money and.

[Robert Evans]

I brought you a gift. Los Angeles Times.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Oh, great.

[Robert Evans]

Favorite thing. Well, I wowed him there, didn't I?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's nice to have a big article on how you flopped in the New York Times six minutes before 9:00. You started out with just like a small group of stations on your show with 56 and now we 337 with a weekly audience about six and a half million. An average quarter hour cum of a.

[Robert Evans]

Million seven most listened to radio talk show in America. And that means the universe. That's, that's Rush Limbaugh at kind of when he, he goes viral for the first time. What do you think about that, about that, how he presents himself on here? What does that say to you?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's so, it's so the, the fully formed version of him that, that I first experienced. And like he's really going for it. Like he's really, he's really like, he's so aggressive in it and, and like saying I'm going to come. Like clearly the, the intention is I'M going to come on your show and I'm going to take it over and I'm going to, I'm going to be the, the, the, the. I'm going to be the alpha here. I'm going to dominate you with this. The, the la, the presentation of the LA Times is because. Why that guy got fired from the L A Times.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, No, I think he'd been in Los Angeles and they savaged him in a review. Right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

So it's, it's, you know, it's that, frankly, it's like. It's all the shit that I hate.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, it is, it is, it's.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's so. It's, it's aggressive, it's mean. It's, you know, it's. He's also correcting him on one of his, you know, eight catchphrases. You know, you have to get it right. I say it like this every time. This is the way it goes. You know, it's just, It's a drama drag. It's a drag.

[Robert Evans]

It's, It's a drag. It's also, I think there's a thing that he's doing here when we talk about all these phrases. Half my brain tied behind my back, you know, the talent on Love from God, all these different phrases that were, that he, he continuously used for decades. I, I don't want to. I, I don't know. I hope this doesn't seem a little pompous, but I, I kind of make a comparison between that and like the Iliad and the Odyssey, right? This, like the way that anytime you've got Homer introducing, it's always like, you know, the. There, there's certain phrases. Anytime Achilles comes up, he uses the same kind of phrases, same couple of phrases to introduce him these descriptive phrases to introduce a character that are repeated constantly throughout the. Because it's a, because it was a spoken story, right? Like that's where you're supposed to deliver it. That works. It gets in people's heads. They associate those phrases with those characters. Russia's kind of do. This is an old tactic, but it works. It's the same thing Trump does with his impulse insults crooked Hillary. Right, Sleepy Joe. These are effective tactics, and that's what Russia's doing to, to inculcate his followers primarily with this idea that he is a genius. Right? And it, again, he's joking, but he's also not, because this buries itself in your brain. He's, he's, he's knows what he's doing. It's, he's a very savvy person.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah. It's like when you, when you people like that, that, that understand the, the importance of branding over having an actual thing to say like it. Honestly, the, the what you, what the content is secondary to the presentation of here's who I am. I'm going to tell you through repetition, this is my whole thing. It's like they're, they're, you know, comics that to me it always makes me think of comedians that majored in marketing in college.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And, and it's like, okay, but are they actually that funny or did they just. Are they able to really sell themselves so well that, that the content is secondary to the image?

[Robert Evans]

You, you have two kinds of people who really are able to build a following. You have people who are able to build a following because folks genuinely just enjoy that the work that they're bringing into the world. They like their personality, they like what they're doing. And then you have folks who are able to build a following primarily because they do cult leader shit. Right? Yeah, that's the, that's what the marketing comedians. Right, that's what this is. Cult leader shit. This is how you do it. Yeah, we do a little bit of that here. But look, we're all guilty a little bit. We're all guilty a little bit. And I'll be guiltier when I get, I don't know, a couple of hundred people killed by the FDA in my mountaintop compound, which I, you know, is always the goal. Paul, you're very welcome. If you would like to have an armed standoff with the.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

That's how you know you're successful.

[Robert Evans]

That's how you know you're successful when a three letter agency burns you down by. Anyway, I don't need to Waco this time.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, I want the epa. I want the EPA to get this.

[Robert Evans]

That's a good one. Yeah. Wow, I'm so impressed. It took an Almost an hour 20 for Robert to mention Waco. Good job. Yeah, I'm getting, you know, I, I realized I was wacoing a lot, trying to cut back, you know, get a little less Waco in the diet. And then here he is. First Waco. But we'll talk off air, Paul, about synergizing our, our cults in the near future. Anyway, so Rush did not tone himself down at all after he went mainstream. In fact, he grew more extreme and he seems to have quickly forgotten that he was ever practicing satire. In 1990, at the very height of the AIDS crisis, Rush launched a New segment on his show, the AIDS Update, and I find it interesting how different sources report on this.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

When Limbaugh died, it was obviously a big story, the fact that he'd done this AIDS Update. And it was, in fact, Limbaugh AIDS Update was like the second or third most Googled term alongside his name the day he died. Snopes and Newsweek both published prominent fact checks on this story. But Ziv Chaffetz, his biography of Limbaugh came out well before Rush's death and before the AIDS Updates were really talked about all that much outside of, you know, the community they most impacted and not. I think it's interesting how Ziv wrote about it, not knowing that this was one going one day going to become a significant story. So this is how Ziv wrote about the AIDS Update. After an ACT up demonstration at St Patrick's Cathedral in New York City that disrupted a mass, Limbaugh chastised militant homosexuals for their disrespectful behavior and shortly thereafter began broadcasting irreverent and tasteless AIDS Update segments produced introduced by Dionne Warwick's I'll Never Love this Way Again. In his traveling stage show, the Excellence in Broadcasting Tour, he did a bit when he put a condom over the microphone to illustrate safe speech. Speech. So that's how the AIDS Update was kind of framed by Ziv before it was a big story. Now, here's how Snopes characterized it in their fact check after Limbaugh died and I think.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

And before that. But, like, already, that doesn't sound good.

[Robert Evans]

That. No, I don't think Ziv is trying to whitewash him. I think that he just doesn't see it as a big story. Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Even just plainly stated, that is.

[Robert Evans]

It's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And it sounds worse when Snopes goes into more detail on this.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Quote. At the height of the HIV AIDS crisis, the Rush Limbaugh show featured an AIDS update in which Limbaugh joked about an epidemic that had claimed more than 100,000 lives between 1981 and 1990. Specifically, Limbaugh targeted gay men who had died. In addition to joking about their deaths, Limbaugh reportedly played songs during the segment, including Kiss Him Goodbye, I'll Never Love this Way Again, and Looking for Love in All the wrong places. Snopes.com uncovered an interview in the Cedar Gazette from 1990 in which Limbaugh said the segment was politically oriented. And based upon my reaction to what I consider to be extremism in the political mainstream by a Group of people. Per the Cedar Gazette, Limbaugh said his target is not AIDS victims, but militant homosexuals who blame church and government officials for the epidemic. The AIDS update is meant to offend them, Limbaugh said. Damn right. According to a 1998 Los Angeles Times article, it was a popular segment, but it also created outrage among AIDS activists, something not helped by Limbaugh repeat, reportedly saying gays deserved their fate. Mocking the horrific deaths of gay people isn't something that will get a conservative radio host fired today. So obviously this was never more than a mild bump in Limbaugh's career back in 1990. And it says a lot about where the right would go that a segment dedicated to mocking joyfully the deaths of people he disagreed with was popular. Right. That would become the mainstream for Republicans. Republicans now in 1990, it was still a thing he had to apologize for. And that year is the year he became officially famous. 1990, he had his first live TV appearance on June 2nd when C span did a special on talk radio. And yeah, so this is like he, he does kind of have to sort of say that he regretted doing this, that he felt like he was kind of attacking people who, like, he, he was like, I didn't mean to be mocking people who had died. I was trying to attack these militant activists. And so I stopped alive. Yeah, yeah. Who are so far still alive for the moment. Yeah. Anyway, that. So he does a TV appearance on C span in 1990 on June 2, which is kind of his first big TV appearance. And then the New York Times does a big profile on him from that quote. With its characteristic attention to production values, the network simply set up a camera inside a spare WABC 77 studio in New York and let the self proclaimed most dangerous man in America roll cut to a schlub in a cheap white dress shirt, black tie and hastily barbershopped helmet of hair, already wiping sweat and grumbling about the TV lights planted behind his desk and mic interrupting the station's young newscaster, Kathleen Mahoney. She's trying to do her five minute top of the hour update, oddly for 1990, while wearing a mask, because, as she explains, the host had warned her it could be dangerous to let his listeners identify her on TV as a liberal feminist. He was only joking. Limbaugh insisted. You said wear a bag over my head. Maloney says. Limbaugh keeps threatening to yank her mask off, complimenting her beauty and interjecting impatiently, the news just holds up everything here. I'm trying to make the news worthwhile. There's a lot in there.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Jesus Christ.

[Robert Evans]

That's his, his. That's a New York Times report on his C SPAN appearance. Yeah. He's like both saying, you should cover your face because my listeners will harass you for being a liberal feminist. And also take off that mask, let everyone see your pretty face. Yeah. Like he's simultaneously both threatening her and, and sexually harassing her.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It's wild. That.

[Robert Evans]

That is good.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

It, it seems, there's something about that that seems so modern. Do you know what I mean?

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I feel like that he's.

[Robert Evans]

Because he, he, he brought, he created the modern right, you know, so you can see it, you know, in 1990, that's what he's doing.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now 1990 is, as I said, also when the Gray lady published their first full feature dedicated to El Rushbow. The article is fascinating and valuable since it seems like few copies of his early 1988-91 92 episodes exist. So this New York Times Reddit provides us with several fascinating insights into how Rush's show evolved during this period and more to the point, into where American conservatism was about to follow in his work. Wake. At one point, a critic calls in. This is again the New York Times writing about his show from an episode we don't have anymore. So at one point in the show, a critic calls in and tells Rush, quote, I believe you are doing a great disservice by using the program to convince people that if poor people are not successful, it is their fault. You were just a paid advocate of the rich and you despise the poor. Now that's very accurate. The author of the New York Times article notes that perhaps due to his guilt over his crueler shock jock days, Rush is very polite to his liberal callers. And this is what the New York Times writes as Russia's answer. You misunderstand my point. There is nothing wrong with being rich. It's not evil. Most rich people earned it by virtue of hard work. This has always been the country that people come to because there has always been a chance for opportunity. And if you start punishing the people who bust their tail to be prosperous, then you're going to unmotivate people to try that. I am not a paid defender of the rich. I am a proud promoter of the American way of life.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, what are the. I guess that's a thing. You can just say that most rich people earned their money.

[Robert Evans]

Like, yeah, it's, it's a. It's objectively untrue. But yes, you can say that objectively.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Untrue. But I guess if you, if you are born to wealth, but then you also get a job that makes you even wealthy. Yeah, I mean it's like that's hard work.

[Robert Evans]

I mean look at Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, all guys who were born to wealth. They weren't born crazy rich, they weren't born with fuck you money, but they were born into wealth. And then they were able to get you money because of the. And there's a lot written about that, you know, Bill Gates having access to a computer in an era when basically no one did. Bezos being able to secure a huge loan from his parents in order to help start his first business. Elon Musk also getting a loan from his dad to start a business. You know, it's the way it always works for these people. And they, they spin that as self made, you know.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, because in their mind it's true.

[Robert Evans]

Because in their mind it's true. And they do work hard. And if you work hard, you can convince yourself that you've earned it. As opposed to like I worked hard. But it only like I can say I worked hard. I can also say I am only financially successful because I got lucky. And I know other people who worked as hard as I did who have not been nearly as financially successful. And it's not because of a lack of talent. It's because I got a break that they didn't.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You know, that's leaving, leaving that, leaving that part out is how you were able to get, convince other people that had the majority of people who are, the majority of people who are wealthy did through hard work.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's nonsense. So that New York Times piece reveals that by 1990, Rush was already popular enough to draw massive in person crowds. And this was unheard of for a talk radio personality. Today we're well acquainted with right wing thought leaders who can draw thousands upon thousands, thousands of fanatically loyal followers to in person gatherings. But Rush was really the first from the Times quote, there are towns where he is unheard, unheard and unheard of. And then there are places like Tampa where the announcement of a Rush Limbaugh stage show sold out the 2200 seat Ruth Eckerd hall in four days. The occupants of those seats are out of them and cheering when Limbaugh appears in a three piece tuxedo. They're like the crowd for a country western concert, says Dan Woolley, the hall's director, director of operations. After sizing up the crowd in the Lobby surprisingly youthful and more beer than wine drinkers. You're gonna have fun tonight, Limbaugh tells them, and at the same time, you're gonna learn some things. Pacing constantly, he does some jokes that poke fun at the Japanese and the liberal media. One of his jokes is that Judgment Day comes and the Washington Post article banner reads, world ends tomorrow. Women, minorities, hardest hit. It's like, that's the. You know, you see what he's going for there?

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, I see what he's going for, sure.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Later in his live show, Rush engaged in a popular bit wherein he brings a piece of shit to a modern art gallery. And the joke is that, like, modern art is so dumb that if you, like, poop and take, like. Right. It's very obvious this is it. You can find Ben Shapiro making the same basic joke decades later. And the gist of it is that gist of it is that, you know, liberals are so dumb, they'll stare at if you tell them it's art. The Times introduces this bit and then moves on to something that I found chillingly relevant. Quote, art criticism is a Limboss staple. He believes there is a culture war going on between those upholding decent values conservatives and the commie lib hordes trying to devalue human life and worst, undermine private enterprise. Limbaugh's sermon on art brings out the evening's only heckling, a female cry of censorship. Oh, no. Limbaugh protests he never spoke that word. But seconds later, he allows that censorship isn't really so bad. It has been used throughout this nation's history as a means of maintaining standards.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

As a means of maintaining standards?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

What the fuck is he talking about?

[Robert Evans]

What he's talking about is threading the needle that the right is now the like, right? The main. I went to. I was in fucking. I took a concealed handgun course in Texas because I'm getting my out of state permit so I can be armed in more parts of the United States because of all that is like going.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

To cooking school in Paris.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, well, and the thing started with like a 30 minute lecture from the instructor on cancel culture. Like, this is the big thing within the right. I know, I know, I know. Wow. This is the big thing within the right now. And it. It. Limbaugh is starting both, like, saying, like, well, the liberals want to, like, censor us when I want to cut out all ideas they disagree with. And then he. He moves on to saying, but also, it's okay to censor people sometimes, right? Because this is what the right believes. It's cancel culture if you, if people don't like it and if they suffer financial consequences for being racist. But it's not cancel culture if they go out of their way to censor left wing and liberal voices, which they do through things like school books. Right. Objectively true, well documented. This is how the right works. Absolutely. I know no one listening is going to disagree, but it's frustrating, but it.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Is, it is absurd. The idea of, you know, like, it's cancel culture if you, if you compare being conservative to being a Jew in 19, late 1930s Berlin to like it should be illegal to give the finger to the flag. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

It's amazing. And that, Paul, is the end of part one of what is going to be like three hours of talking about Rush Limbaugh.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Way more time than he deserves. But Howard had to do it. I mean, he deserves this much time. Not in a good way, but in a. We need to understand what this man has done to us all.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Absolutely. And it's also, if you're, if you're willing to go to bat for Rush Limbaugh because you think it's mean that somebody is glad that he's dead. Let's lay it all out. And here's. Here's why some people might, might not be so sad that a human life.

[Robert Evans]

Has been lost of evidence.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Evidence both that he deserves to have his death cheered and also that he loved laughing at people's deaths. Yeah, yeah.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

You're honoring him in a way.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, you are. You are. It's what he would have wanted. But you know what I want right now, Paul? I want you to plug your pluggables.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Well, let's see. You can find me on social media @pf tompkins on Twitter and Instagram. I have a bunch of podcasts going on at any given time. Freedom, which I co host with Lauren Lapkis and Scott Auan, and Stay of Homekins, which I co host with my wife. We started a podcast during the pandemic, and unfortunately, we are still doing it. And I do. I do shows. The first live streaming improv shows the first Monday of every month with my friend Lauren Lapkis. And that all those tickets can be found at Paul F. Tompkins.com live awesome.

[Robert Evans]

Well, speaking of cancel culture, this episode is now over and thus canceled because of the Libs. It's. It's done. Bye. Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, cool zone media.com or check us out on the Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is not now available on YouTube.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.

[Robert Evans]

Subscribe to our channel YouTube.com behindthebastards. To have a murder as gruesome as.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Jade Beasley's doesn't happen very often down here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Robert Evans]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

They've never found a weapon. Never made sense.

[Robert Evans]

Still doesn't make sense.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Robert Evans]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Evans]

I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together our mission on the really no really podcast is to get the.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

True answers to life's baffling questions.

[Robert Evans]

Like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor. What's in the museum of failure? And does your dog truly love you? We have the answer. Go to reallynoreally.com and register to win 500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign. Jason Bobblehead the Really no really podcast.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

Follow us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop. Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Very powerful.

[Paul F. Tompkins]

I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist. Journalist. And this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the rotten industry he works in. It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel. Listen to the Bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.