CZM Rewind: The U.S. Border Patrol Is A Nightmare That Never Ends

Summary

Behind the Bastards Episode Summary: "CZM Rewind: The U.S. Border Patrol Is A Nightmare That Never Ends"

Release Date: June 17, 2025

In this powerful rerun episode of Behind the Bastards, host Robert Evans delves deep into the dark and troubling history of the United States Border Patrol. Joined by guest Caitlin Durante, the episode meticulously unpacks the systemic racism, brutality, and corruption that have plagued the agency since its inception nearly a century ago. Through a combination of historical analysis, personal anecdotes, and expert insights, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of why the Border Patrol has become a symbol of relentless oppression and human rights violations.

1. Historical Origins of the Border Patrol

The episode begins by tracing the Border Patrol's roots to the 1924 Immigration Act, a blatantly racist law designed to preserve "Nordic" white supremacy by limiting immigration from Asia and Eastern Europe while making exceptions for Mexican immigrants to support agricultural labor needs. This act not only institutionalized racial discrimination but also led to the formation of the Border Patrol as an enforcement arm of these prejudiced policies.

Robert Evans states, "The 1924 Immigration Act is what establishes the U.S. Border Patrol for the very first time. So this fundamentally racist law written by people who justified it explicitly with race." (06:49)

2. Operation Wetback and Mass Deportations

One of the most egregious actions by the Border Patrol was Operation Wetback in the 1950s, which resulted in the deportation of up to 1.5 million Mexicans, including approximately 60% who were U.S. citizens. This operation showcased the agency's primary objective: enforcing white supremacy through mass deportations and ethnic cleansing.

Evans highlights, "Throughout the 1930s, Mexicans made up at least 85% of all immigration prisoners... Somewhere around 1 million Mexicans were deported from the United States." (47:16)

3. Border Patrol's Role in Latin American Atrocities

The episode sheds light on the Border Patrol's involvement beyond U.S. borders, particularly in Central America. Agents like John P. Longan were instrumental in training death squads in countries like Guatemala, exacerbating conflicts and contributing to genocidal campaigns against indigenous populations.

Citing the book "Migra," Evans explains, "During Operation Wetback, Border Patrol administrators had described their work as fighting back against an invasion..." (90:51)

4. Modern-Day Corruption and Abuse

Transitioning to recent decades, Behind the Bastards exposes rampant corruption, violence, and misconduct within the Border Patrol. From agents engaging in human trafficking and drug smuggling to systemic issues like lack of accountability and inadequate training, the agency's legacy of abuse continues to this day.

Evans points out, "One senior DHS official even admitted to Politico, 'the agency has created a culture that says, if you throw a rock at me, you're going to get shot.'" (134:15)

5. Lack of Accountability and Structural Failures

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the Border Patrol's structural weaknesses, including insufficient oversight and legal protections that shield abusive agents from repercussions. This environment fosters a culture of impunity, allowing heinous acts to persist unchecked.

Caitlin Durante emphasizes, "They use it a lot. They [Border Patrol] use it as a term because of what it sounds like when they beat these people with flashlights." (132:52)

6. Ongoing Struggles and Unresolved Issues

Concluding the episode, Evans and Durante reflect on the enduring challenges facing the Border Patrol, including entrenched racism, continued human rights abuses, and the agency's pivotal role in perpetuating systemic inequality. They argue that as long as arbitrary and racist borders exist, agencies like the Border Patrol will remain instruments of oppression.

Notable Quotes

• Robert Evans (06:49): "The 1924 Immigration Act fundamentally established the U.S. Border Patrol as an enforcement arm of racist immigration policies."

• Caitlin Durante (15:56): "I am happy to be on the record as taking a stance against murdering random people as part of a fear-based system of law enforcement."

• Robert Evans (116:19): "It's to protect whiteness. And it's to provide an outlet for fascists in this country to do horrible violence on people in a way that enforces the state itself."

• Caitlin Durante (142:29): "No accountability. Holy crap."

Conclusion

This episode of Behind the Bastards offers a harrowing exploration of the U.S. Border Patrol's history and ongoing issues. By uncovering the layers of racism, violence, and corruption embedded within the agency, host Robert Evans and guest Caitlin Durante provide listeners with a sobering perspective on one of America's most controversial law enforcement bodies. The narrative underscores the urgent need for comprehensive reform and a reevaluation of immigration policies to address the deep-seated injustices perpetuated by the Border Patrol.

Transcript

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[Robert Evans]

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[Caitlin Durante]

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[Robert Evans]

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[Dylan]

Call Zone Media hey.

[Robert Evans]

Everyone, Robert Evans here and we're doing a rerun episode because I need the time to get caught up, but I figured we'd do this week we rerun two of our old episodes, cut out a bunch of extra ads and put them in as long single episodes and a couple of topics that are very important. First off, we're going to be talking about the Department of Homeland Security, which as an organization is as bastardy a bastard as we have ever discussed on this show. So here, please listen up to a series of episodes that have unfortunately only gotten more Relevant as time has gone on. You know, introducing a podcast is a little bit like. Megan, love. It's not. It's not at all. I'm so sorry. I'm Robert Evans, failing to introduce my podcast yet again. It's behind the Bastards. It's about terrible people. I'm so sorry, everyone. I was. I was trying to open with my folksy wisdom, but I have none. And I got. Now I've botched the start of this episode. Here to attempt to take away some of my shame is Caitlin Duranty. Caitlin, how are you doing today?

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, you know, I'm just barely keeping it together at any moment, but otherwise.

[Robert Evans]

Caitlin, can you think of any similarities between introducing a podcast and making love?

[Caitlin Durante]

Well, let me think about that.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, I have one. I have one.

[Dylan]

I have one.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dylan]

The audio levels can go up and down.

[Robert Evans]

The audio levels can go up and down. That's a good similarity.

[Dylan]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Caitlin Durante]

Sure. Maybe an entire episode. Not just introducing an episode, but in an entire episode. I think you could draw some parallels between. Because you've got, you know, there's like, the intro is sort of like the foreplay, and then you've got, you know, usually a big climactic finish to the episode.

[Robert Evans]

Well, there you go, everybody.

[Dylan]

We figured it out. We figured it out.

[Robert Evans]

You wanted to compare a random episode of my podcast about bad people to making love. Caitlin Durante has kind of made it easier, maybe. Caitlyn, how are you doing today?

[Caitlin Durante]

I'm all right, you know, I'm just.

[Dylan]

You're in your closet.

[Caitlin Durante]

Recording. I'm in my closet.

[Robert Evans]

You're in your closet. I'm looking at your luggage right now. Nice luggage. I see you go with the hard shell.

[Caitlin Durante]

Thank you.

[Dylan]

Yes, it is a really nice closet, if I remember from the photos you sent me. Like, it's a very good sized closet.

[Caitlin Durante]

It truly is. Thank you so much.

[Robert Evans]

You wanna hear a little story about me, Caitlin? Please. Cause I'm a narcissist. Okay. So, you know, I travel a lot too, Caitlin. And I have refused my entire traveling life to have, like, a hard shelled rolly suitcase, even though they're much more comfortable to use at the airport than a backpack. Because as a young man with an indestructible spine, I was like, only stupid old people use the rollie backpacks. I'm gonna be a young adventurer forever. And I just get to wear a. And now I just hurt myself every time I go to the airport out of pride. And that's why men shouldn't be allowed to hold political office.

[Caitlin Durante]

I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. You mean you. You carry around one of those, like, big, like backpacking?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, Big old. Big old backpack on your backpack. Horrible. Horrible. Sometimes they carry a duffel bag. Even worse.

[Caitlin Durante]

That's absurd.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's a terrible idea. But, you know, it does tie in with the theme of today's episode, because what do you do with backpacks and Rollie suitcases, Caitlyn?

[Caitlin Durante]

I mean, you bring them with you to travel.

[Robert Evans]

You bring them with you to cross borders. Yeah. And today we're talking about La motherfucking Migra, the Border Patrol.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, boy.

[Dylan]

Katelyn, I just want to say nice job. Yeah, that was great.

[Caitlin Durante]

Thanks.

[Robert Evans]

Been a long journey to starting the episode this week, but I think we got there nicely. Yeah. Sorry to everyone who's been, you know, this has been a little bit of a weird run of behind the Bastards, the Uprising episodes. We're still gonna be doing the dictators and grifters, you know, that are our bread and butter. But I keep getting obsessed with different law enforcement agencies, particularly the ones, you know, shooting at me. And so I started just kind of reading a bunch about customs and border patrol this last week or so, and I couldn't stop. And so I wrote a lot about them. And now we're all going to talk about border patrol, because, Caitlin, did you know that border patrol, kind of problematic.

[Caitlin Durante]

Wait a minute.

[Robert Evans]

What do you mean? Yeah, not nice dudes, as it turns out, and have kind of been dicks for like a hundred something years or like 100 years. They've been dicks for a long time. Very close to 100 years. Okay, 96 years.

[Caitlin Durante]

All right.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Which, you know, they still have time to change. You know, a lot of people have their best. Their best, you know, their second act after age 96.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah. I would say that applies to a large number of people.

[Robert Evans]

A lot of tortoises, at least a lot of tortoises go on to do very cool things after age 96.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah. Trees as well. There's a lot of old trees that are really important things.

[Robert Evans]

Border Patrol could be like a sequoia.

[Caitlin Durante]

Mm.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. But I don't know how likely I think that is. So we're gonna talk about. We're gonna talk about La Migra today. Cuz they're terrible. And I don't think most people know how terrible they are. And their terribility is important because it is tied in with a lot of horrible things about this country. And the very concept of whiteness. So how are you feeling about that, Caitlyn?

[Caitlin Durante]

You know, I don't feel good about it. I really don't.

[Robert Evans]

That's good, because my cunning plan has been to blame you personally for all of the historical crimes of the U.S. border Patrol.

[Caitlin Durante]

Well, I did invent them.

[Robert Evans]

You launched the Immigration act of 1924. That's Caitlin Durante's. That's on your resume.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah. I didn't want that to be my legacy, but here we are.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. A lot of people don't know this, but you used to be all of Congress in the early 1920s.

[Caitlin Durante]

Mm.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

I mean, pretty impressive when you think of it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. No, it really is. Yeah. Congress, Durante. Yeah.

[Dylan]

You were you instead of Caitlin. You were Congress, Durante.

[Caitlin Durante]

That's true.

[Robert Evans]

If we're going to talk about the Border Patrol, we've got to talk about the border. And given that the territory we currently know as, like, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and even Mexico is all land that was stolen from indigenous people. This is not like a case where there's a lot of good guys to choose from. If you're talking about, like, conflicts over the US Mexican border, you're talking about, like, a bunch of different states that kind of sucked, fighting each other for land that wasn't theirs. Like that. That's the whole. That's the whole deal, right?

[Caitlin Durante]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

So the US Mexican War of 1846-1848 is the conflict that gained our nation most of the modern Southwest. It was a naked war of imperialist aggression against another nation that brutally subjugated indigenous peoples. One can argue that Mexico was, like, a broadly better country than the U.S. at this point, since it didn't allow slavery. But both countries, not. Not great to anyone, any, like, indigenous peoples or whatever.

[Caitlin Durante]

Just.

[Robert Evans]

Just. Just bad, bad, bad governments. So at the end of the U.S. mexican War, the United States wound up occupying Mexico City, and that nation was forced to cede 50% of its northern Territory in the result. And I think a lot of Americans who grow up kind of outside of the Southwest don't really have a clear idea of how much land the United States got as a result of the US Mexican War, but we took a shitload of land from Mexico. It's fucking crazy how much of this country used to be Mexico. Like, up into Oklahoma.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah, I don't have a good gauge on that because I. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and that just wasn't something that they bothered to tell us in history class.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we weren't. Like, most of the Southwest was kind of at one point or another part of Mexico. And so, yeah, we took about 50% of Mexico's northern territory, and a new US Mexican border was redrawn along the Rio Grande from the Gulf to El Paso, and then along more or less an arbitrary line further west up the Pacific. Now, this meant that a huge number of people who'd previously lived in Mexico and had been able to travel freely around territory that was all part of one nation now found themselves living in between two nations. This included roughly 180,000 members of indigenous tribes, as well as about 150,000 Mexicans. So these 300,000, ish, non white folks owned most of the land in, like, the territories in the Southwest that, you know, became Texas and some of the surrounding states. And the decades after the U.S. mexican War are kind of best viewed as a gradual process of white people taking this land from non white people. Some of it through purchase, some of it through, like, violent threats and intimidation, some of it as a result of the reservation system kicking indigenous people off of their ancestral land, and some of it through just like good old, you know, good old, good old fashioned genocide. Caitlin. Just like that. Just like really getting your boots in it, you know, I mean, those are.

[Caitlin Durante]

The main principles that the US Was founded on, right? White people stealing land from non white people and genociding them.

[Robert Evans]

You're gosh darn right, Caitlyn. You're gosh darn right. And that's why when I get up in the. I'm just thinking of like a Folgers coffee commercial. You know, one of those old ones was like a cowboy getting up on the range, sipping a Folgers coffee, and then just like stepping into a pile of bones and just being like, ah, nothing like a nice morning walking bare throat through a pile of bones. The thing that I do every day as a cowboy.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah, why wasn't that their ad campaign.

[Robert Evans]

For Folgers will murder everybody? Coffee helps? Oh, I was drinking coffee and it went down the wrong hole. Caitlin.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, no. Wow.

[Robert Evans]

See, coffee can't be stopped from attempting genocide.

[Caitlin Durante]

Even coffee wants to murder.

[Robert Evans]

Coffee wants nothing but to murder. So as we discussed in our last episode of the behind the Police miniseries that we just did, the Texas Rangers was kind of the first border patrol type force in, you know, the Southwest. And they began their history as a, as a group, like a paramilitary organization to provide, to protect white settlers in Texas. They were formed by a local mayor named John Jackson Tumlinson, who was part of the old 300 white families who first settled in Texas with Stephen F. Austin. Now, it wasn't a popular decision for these 300 families to settle in Texas, and the Comanches, Tonkawas, Apaches, and Karankawas, who already resided in the area, got kind of angry and started murdering them. So Tomlinson ordered the formation of a roving defensive patrol. This patrol became the Texas Rangers. But Tomlinson never got to see it formed because he was almost immediately killed by Karankawa and Huaco indigenous people before he got off the ground.

[Caitlin Durante]

Well, sounds like karma to me.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it sounds like it's fine. Like a shame they didn't get more people. So the Rangers were kind of this country's first border patrol force. And the primary method of action for them was just, again, really just straight up genocide. In the early days, they were like a paramilitary army. They acted as scouts for actual militias. They would swoop in and force indigenous people out of their homes and onto reservations, but would also just burn their villages sometime and murder their women and children because, you know, whatever. Sometimes you come into the office and you want to do things different. I don't know. Yeah. They also engaged in the murder and intimidation of Mexicans in border communities. And by the early 1900s, the indigenous folks had mostly been forced off of their land and. And the Rangers had become a police force focused mainly on Mexicano. Mexicano communities on the border. The primary strategy was what's known to historians as revenge by proxy. And for an example of how that looked, I'm going to quote from the American Crossroads book migra. Quote. On June 12, 1901, a Mexicano rancher named Gregorio Cortez stood at the gate of his home in Carnes County, Texas. There, he resisted arrest for a crime that he did not commit. The sheriff persisted, drew his gun, and shot Gregorio's brother in the mouth. When he charged at the sheriff to protect Gregorio, Gregorio shot back and killed the sheriff, an act that was sure to bring the Texas Rangers to his doorstep. When they came, Gregorio and his family, including his wounded brother, were gone. All that remained was the dead body of the sheriff. The news of Gregorio's deadly defiance quickly spread across southern Texas. And yeah, for 10 days, the Texas Rangers and posses numbering up to 300 men hunted for him. When they could not find him, they sought revenge by proxy, arresting, brutalizing, and murdering an unknown number of Mexicanis. So that's like how the Texas Rangers kind of worked for a while. Is Hispanic person commits a crime or a perceived crime, and if they can't catch him to murder him publicly. They just kill a bunch of other random Mexicans so that, like, people don't get uppity. That's the. That's the first Border Patrol.

[Caitlin Durante]

Horrible.

[Robert Evans]

Pretty bad, Caitlyn. Pretty bad.

[Caitlin Durante]

Don't like it. I don't like it one bit.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, so you are, you are on the, you are on the record now about not being in favor of murdering random people as part of a fear based system of law enforcement.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yes, And I am, I am happy to be on the record as taking stance.

[Robert Evans]

That's a bold stance. That's a bold stance. Going to lose you some advertisers, Caitlyn. Especially our big advertiser, Raytheon. Yeah, when you really need a group of people intimidated by violence, there's no other option but Raytheon. Raytheon.

[Dylan]

It's not even time. Let a robot die. It's not even time for an ad break. You're just doing this.

[Robert Evans]

I know.

[Dylan]

That's a.

[Robert Evans]

That's a free. That's a free one. Raytheon just had to lay off a lot of employees, Sophie. And I for one, have a sense of loyalty, so I'm trying to help Raytheon out with some free ads. So look, if you've got a couple billion extra dollars that you need to spend on missiles that are filled with knives in order to assassinate, you know, insurgent leaders in Yemen, look, don't go to Lockheed Martin. Go to Raytheon. Okay? It's just better knife missiles. Right? That's all I'm gonna say.

[Caitlin Durante]

Mm.

[Dylan]

Brave.

[Robert Evans]

I have a sense of loyalty. So for the first 20 years of the century, the US Mexican border was policed by a mix of Texas Rangers and like, local sheriffs. Such enforcement was always piecemeal, with hundreds of miles of borderland operating basically autonomously, as it had for generations. Like, the idea that we would police our border, like, didn't exist until pretty recently for most of American history. It was just like, well, yeah, you've got this big empty chunk of country and eventually it becomes Mexico and it's nobody's. Nobody really gives a shit. Yeah, you see, all these communities had existed for forever, for hundreds of years in a lot of cases. And, you know, they had family who would be up in Mexico or up in the United States, and it would have seemed like. It would have seemed like madness to try to. To try to split these communities up based on an arbitrary borderline that nobody could even see. But yeah, in the 1920s, that started to change. In 1924, the Immigration act was passed, and the immigration act banned all immigration to the United States from Asia, and it massively reduced immigration in from the south, from southern and eastern Europe. The goal of the act was, for the first time to enshrine in law the federal government's preference for Nordic whites above non white people when it came to immigration. So basically set up a quota system.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yikes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Have you heard about this? This is when we decided that only one kind of white people were allowed in the country. This is the Italians aren't white enough law. But people used to really care about that. Right. In the 1924 Immigration Act, a big part of it was stopping Italians, or as they would have called them, Italians, which used to be, I think, more racist than it is, and is now just a funny old timey way of making fun of Italians, which I'm always. I'm always in favor of. Caitlin, how do you feel about it?

[Caitlin Durante]

You do know that my last name is Durante and that I am partly Italian?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, so am I. That's why it's. Okay.

[Caitlin Durante]

Good. All right. Awesome.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we. Are we white? How's that work?

[Caitlin Durante]

I have heard slightly varying things, but I think by and large, Italian people are considered white. Yes.

[Robert Evans]

I was looking at a Nazi cartoon the other day because I do things like that for my mental health. And it was like, the point it was making is that social justice advocates are always white and fascists are actually really diverse. And so, like, it was a bunch of white people lecturing Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito. But. But because it was drawn by a fascist, they drew in Mussolini as a black man because they don't think Italians are white. So it's just like, there were a lot of layers of wrongness there to parse through. It was one of those things that looked very confusing to people who don't immediately recognize, oh, these are the kind of racists who don't even think Italians count as white. Um, it's very funny. But in the 1920s, that was all of Congress.

[Caitlin Durante]

Sure.

[Robert Evans]

And they were like, we gotta pass a law to stop these Italians from coming in. Um, so, yeah, the Immigration act in 1924 bans all Asian immigration and tries to kind of restrict to only the. The right kind of white people. And the one real exception to this, the only kind of, like, non white folks who were allowed into the country under the immigration act without any kind of restriction were Mexicans. And this is because of hardcore labor or lobbying by the agricultural industry. Right. Because, like, basically you had all these ranchers and farmers in Texas, particularly, and in the Southwest, who were like, our entire industry doesn't work without these people, so you have to let them in. So the 1924 act does kind of make an exception for that. It's very heavily based on race science. And in fact, like, a big factor in what got the act passed was a bunch of bogus studies conducted by the Eugenics Research Office at Cold Spring harbor that kind of provided intellectual justification for the law by arguing that the wrong kind of immigrants would lead to surges in violent crime and declines in iq. Yikes.

[Caitlin Durante]

Don't like the sound of that.

[Robert Evans]

No, this is bad. This is bad. And the 1924 Immigration act is what establishes the U.S. border Patrol for the very first time. So this. This fundamentally racist law written by people who justified it explicitly with race. Like. Like bad race science is where the Border Patrol is initially established. So literally born in an orgy of racism. And in fact, the. The 1924 Immigration act that established the Border Patrol was so nakedly racist that Adolf Hitler took inspiration from it in 19. Yeah, it's bad. It's really bad, Caitlin. This is where Border Patrol comes from.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, no.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's not great. In 1928, Hitler wrote this. Of the law. There is currently one state in which one can observe at least a weak beginnings of a better conception. This is, of course, not Germany, but the American Union. The American Union. Union categorically refuses the immigration of physically unhealthy elements and simply excludes the immigration of certain races.

[Caitlin Durante]

So Hitler in the 20s took a look at what we were doing in the US and was like, I like the looks of that. Let me copy paste and do that.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, dear.

[Robert Evans]

That's exactly. And he wrote extensively about how inspired he was by US Immigration law, which was, like, the most racist in the world at the time.

[Caitlin Durante]

Holy shit.

[Robert Evans]

You want to know something else cool, Caitlin? This is a neat story. You're going to love this.

[Caitlin Durante]

Please tell me the story.

[Robert Evans]

You know, El Paso, great town, solid tacos. A lot of immigration into El Paso, right? Always has been. Because it's the pass, right? You know, that's just where it's located. Back in, like, the 20s and 30s, when immigrants would come in racist, white people were so worried about how dirty they thought Mexicans were that they would mandate delousing bats for everybody who entered the country, and they would just douse them in pesticide. And the pesticide that they chose was Zyklon B.

[Caitlin Durante]

Wait, what Is that.

[Robert Evans]

That's what they killed all the Jews with in the conservation camps. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. That's another thing the Nazis were like, oh, this seems like something we could modify a little bit to make better for us. Isn't that cool? That's good stuff. It's not.

[Caitlin Durante]

Holy shit.

[Robert Evans]

It was super flammable and sometimes people burned horribly to death. Good stuff on the border. Kind of always a nightmare. Kind of. If you study the history of the border, maybe the only reasonable conclusion is that borders are fundamentally toxic but.

[Caitlin Durante]

And completely made up. They're just.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

And total bullshit of like horrible, usually racist ideology.

[Robert Evans]

They're just lines. Racist lines we draw on a map that murder tons of people. It's awesome. It's really good. So, yeah, the Border Patrol comes out of is. Is formed from a law that the Nazis look at and go, that's a good law. Says we the Nazis. Sweet stuff. Caitlin. So because the. The Immigration act was passed alongside a surge of racist nativist fear about those dastardly non white immigrants, it mandated that the new Border Patrol be established quickly. The first version of the force was basically built overnight from May 28 to July 1, so rapidly that there was no time for the Patrol to actually create any kind of qualification exam for its new recruits. The first wave of men to wear the service's green uniform were instead required to pass the Railway mail clerk civil Service exam, which I'm sure is basically the same thing.

[Caitlin Durante]

Uh huh.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So as a result, and this is something we'll talk about in part two, this, this winds up being a long trend in the Border Patrol is every decision they make, they have to like immediately adopt it and they never have time to train anybody to do the job they're going to do. And everyone's just fine with this. And it persists for 96 years.

[Caitlin Durante]

So the whole thing, every, like, decisions are made all willy nilly. People are brought in.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

With no training, no training implemented with nobody knows what they're doing, no thought given to it. They're just like, here's what we decided and we're not going to take a second to examine this at all. We're just going to do it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. I mean, the current DHS Secretary, Chad Wolf, has no law enforcement experience, was never in the military and I think went to college on like a tennis scholarship. So it's great. It's cool how things are always exactly the same forever.

[Caitlin Durante]

Hmm.

[Robert Evans]

Because yeah, again, if people ever learn a single lesson from history, the world will explode. So we have to not do that anyway.

[Caitlin Durante]

But there's also a conundrum there, too, right? Because so much of history that gets taught, at least in schools, is so horribly whitewashed and revisionist that, like, how can anyone learn anything from it, you know?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, you know, that's a good point, Caitlyn. And that's why, as I see all these kids in the street who just aren't going to school anymore and are instead spending their nights dropkicking the doors of a federal courthouse to try to taunt the agents inside to attack them. I think probably fine. Probably learning about as much, right?

[Caitlin Durante]

True.

[Robert Evans]

So, yeah, the very first Border Patrol men were mostly male clerks. And obviously male clerks maybe aren't super meant to be tromping around the desert hunting people. And about a quarter of everyone in the Border Patrol quit in their first month of the job. Turnover remained incredibly high for basically the whole history of the organization, but particularly its early years. And this made it kind of impossible for it to develop any kind of functional internal culture at the start. By 1927, the Border Patrol had been forced to hire inspectors who could not even pass civil service exams. The agency tried desperately to recruit military veterans and men with law enforcement experience, but the vast majority of their new hires were just unemployed men who lived in border towns. These were white working class folks who'd had trouble keeping a job and were kind of desperate for a leg up and the regular income that a law enforcement career would allow, as well as kind of the respect and pride or respect that you would get as a member of law enforcement. Right. Like, they wanted some power. These were like, poor working class whites.

[Caitlin Durante]

Don'T give anybody power. It never goes well.

[Robert Evans]

No, especially not poor white men in the country. Yeah. So immigration from Mexico into the United States had not traditionally been like a major subject of national political debate. People in Texas, you know, there were folks who cared about it, but, like, really on a national level, if you'd like, run based on your plan to build a wall around Mexico, 99% of Americans have been like, what the fuck is your problem? Like, why do you give a shit about that?

[Caitlin Durante]

Right?

[Robert Evans]

Everyone is dying of diphtheria and the economy is permanently crashed. Please, please stop. Which I guess now we're back at, so maybe that'll help.

[Caitlin Durante]

I mean, wow, the paradise.

[Robert Evans]

Don't hear as many people giving a shit about the border these days, I'll say that much.

[Caitlin Durante]

That's true.

[Robert Evans]

Maybe it's because nobody wants to come here anymore. We did it, Caitlin. We finally stopped it.

[Caitlin Durante]

Just turn the US into a disease ridden hell hole.

[Robert Evans]

All it took was a runaway plague that we completely give up any hope of ever dealing with. Yay. You know what? President Trump figured it out. Good for him.

[Dylan]

You know what President Trump didn't figure out?

[Robert Evans]

Oh, the products and services that support this podcast. That's right. We keep them a secret from the President.

[Dylan]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

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[Caitlin Durante]

So good.

[Robert Evans]

Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Sophie]

I insisted first.

[Robert Evans]

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Shoot.

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[Robert Evans]

We're back. Oh, my gosh. I, for one, love that Trump for America bought up all of our advertising space. When I think of president, I think of the president. Anyway, so immigration from Mexico had not traditionally been a big, big political debate issue. Right. The wealthy agribusiness owners in Texas preferred simple immigration from Mexico, and they fought to ensure that Mexicans were not subject to the same harsh immigration restrictions as other immigrants. In the 1924 bill, one business owner put it simply, without the Mexicans, we would be done. Which hasn't really changed, you know, and it's like, we'll talk about this a little bit later on. But it is, it is this kind of one of the things that you, I didn't even realize was, like, really problematic. When I was a young person, kind of dealing with the mix between outwardly hateful racists in the Southwest and nice people who don't realize they're racist is like, the nice people, the outwardly hateful people are like, you know, The Trump type folks that, you know, who want to build a wall and kick all the rapist Mexicans out.

[Caitlin Durante]

Sure. They're easy to spot.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. And then you have this chunk of people who are like, well, I hate what Trump's doing and like, I'm happy to have Mexicans here because, you know, they, they do great work and they're, they're, they're great at this and they're good at that and they're good at, and it's this thing where like, especially like, you know, you don't necessarily notice especially as like a young white person was 18, 19, like, what, what, what's actually being said there, which is like the commodification of, of non white bodies, which is like, not, not cool. But we're going to talk more about that later because this is where that all starts in an organized way, which is awesome. So the white working class in Texas, so obviously like these kind of landowners, the kind of aristocracy in Texas in this period, right. Like the ranchers and stuff, they were broadly, like, they wanted more Mexicans and they could never get enough because, like, they needed people to actually work their farms. But the white working class in Texas and the white working class, even in rural areas really had nursed like a growing hatred of Mexican people and had been for years. And this was based on a mix of like, fear that Mexican immigrants would take their jobs. That was always like a core part of it. And also based on kind of like good old fashioned racism. One labor union official in Texas at the time noted, quote, I hope they never let another Mexican come to the United States. The country would be a whole lot better off for the white laboring man if there weren't so many N words and Mexicans.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh my gosh.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Well, and this is one of those things if you're like kind of squaring yourself with the history of labor, you know, I'm a big fan of labor history and I think there's a lot of wonderful stuff. There's. You do have to square with the fact that like a lot of those dudes who were right about a lot of important things were incredibly racist and hated non white people because they saw them as a threat to white working class people.

[Caitlin Durante]

I mean, which. That all stems from capitalism, more or less.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, absolutely.

[Caitlin Durante]

Any fairness or parity when it came to income and labor, people wouldn't have to be worried about other people. There wouldn't be this fear of like, who is my job in danger? Who's going to take my job? Because they're like a more just socialized economy would eliminate that fear.

[Robert Evans]

Absolutely. Yep. So the, the actual laws on the books in this period of time had been written largely by the rich landed gentry who needed Mexican immigrants. But now that the Bor patrol existed post 1924, the men enforcing those laws were working class whites who really just hated Mexicans. And they honestly didn't give a shit about the needs of farmers. And in fact, a lot of them saw kind of being able to police undocumented migrants as a way of kind of equalizing their level of social power with farmers because, like, you know, they were poorer than these guys, they didn't have property, but now they had the ability to. To arrest these dudes, workers. And like, that gave them a level of power, their culture, and a level of power of these people who had kind of previously been the bosses. And you know, kind of, for a lot of these guys who became the first Border Patrol workers, these were obviously, these were white men, but they were men whose kind of sense of whiteness had been hanging on by a thread prior to this, this opportunity coming around. And I'm going to quote again from the book Migra, quote. Early officers may have lived in white neighborhoods, worshiped at white churches, and sent their children to white schools, but as salesmen, chauffeurs, machinists, and cow punchers, they had labored at the edges of whiteness in the borderland. The steady pay and everyday Social authority of U.S. immigration Law enforcement work dangled before them the possibility of lifting themselves from a marginalized existence as what Neil Foley has examined as the white scourge of borderland communities. Policing Mexicans, in other words, presented officers with the opportunity to enter the region's primary economy and in the process, shore up their tentative claims upon whiteness. As immigration control was emerging as a critical site of simultaneously expanding the boundaries of whiteness while hardening the distinctions between whites and non whites. The project of enforcing immigration restrictions therefore placed Border Patrol officers at what police scholar David Bailey describes as the cutting edge of the state's knife in terms of enforcing new boundaries between whites and non whites. So that is the Border Patrol in this period, the cutting edge of the state's knife. You know, cleaving the boundaries between white and non white people. The way to look at it, very picturesque.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah. Oof.

[Robert Evans]

Now this is made a lot more complicated by the fact that a chunk of the early Border Patrol were Mexican American. And these guys in a lot of cases saw their ability, their career in law enforcement as a way of separating themselves from non white people. The League of United Latin American Citizens, or lulac, specifically stated that Mexican American association with colored races is what held them back from full acceptance by white society in this period of time. Time and the book Migra includes the story of one early officer, Patrol Inspector Pete Torres, who was marked by a colleague for being Mexican. In response, he shot at the man's feet and yelled, I am not a Mexican. I am a Spanish American. Yeah. So this is like.

[Caitlin Durante]

We'Re seeing some internalized.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's a complicated history here and I, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go into tremendous depth about this aspect of the history because I'm just, I'm not at all the right person to do so. The right person to do so, in fact, is probably Kelly, Kelly Little Hernandez, author of the book Migra A history of the U.S. border Patrol. She does talk about this in more depth and I really recommend her book. But you should know that's like an aspect of what's going on here. And as a rule, one of the things that starts to happen in particular around like the 40s is kind of a growing Spanish or Mexican American community who are very pro immigration enforcement and pro, like, harsher immigration laws and laws against illegal immigration. They start to like, solidify as a voting bloc in the Southwest in this period, too, and they still are to this day. It's a lot of people are like shocked when they see Hispanics for Trump and stuff. And there's actually pretty deep roots for a lot of that stuff. Yeah. So most early Border Patrol men, though, were white dudes, and it would probably be fair to call them white supremacists. And as the years went by, our government gave them increasing powers to exercise racism with state of authority behind it. From a write up in the Intercept quote, while the 1924 immigration law spared Mexico a quota, a series of secondary laws, including one that made it a crime to enter the country outside of official ports of entry, gave border and customs agents on the spot discretion to decide who could enter the country legally. They had the power to turn what had been a routine daily or seasonal event crossing the border to go to work into a ritual of abuse. Hygienic inspections became more widespread and even more degrading. Migrants had their head shaved, and they were subjected to an increasingly arbitrary set of requirements at the discretion of patrollers, including literacy tests and entrance fees. The patrol wasn't a large agency at first, just a few hundred men during its early years, and its reach along a 2000 mile line was limited, but over the years, its reported brutality grew as the number of agents deployed increased. Border agents beat, shot, and hung migrants with regularity. Two patrollers, former Texas Rangers, tied the feet of one migrant and dragged him in and out of a river until he confessed to having entered the country illegally. Other patrollers were members of the resurgent Ku Klux Klan, active in border towns from Texas to California. Practically every other member of El Paso's National Guard was in the Klan, one military officer recalled, and many had joined the Border Patrol upon its establishment. So not great. Ideally, you know, if you. If you ask me, we keep coming back to the KKK and how it repeatedly infiltrated law enforcement. Mm, Someone maybe ought to do something about that. So for its first 10 years of existence, the Border Patrol operated under the authority of the Department of Labor. And when FDR was elected, he appointed Frances Perkins to be Secretary of Labor. And she tried to curtail the violence of the border pat and reform it. And this didn't really work out in the long run. She attempted to cut down on warrantless arrests. She mandated that detained migrants had a right to receive phone calls. She fought to provide migrants with at least some version of the civil rights they lacked as non citizens. But before long, FDR was pressured by the agricultural industry to put the Border Patrol under the control of the Department of Justice. Now, this might seem surprising at first because, like, these rich farmers were the same folks who'd fought to ensure Mexican immigrants wouldn't be subject to quotas in the 1924 immigration law. But there's a reason behind it. Because these folks had wanted these, you know, ranchers and stuff, had wanted Mexicans here to work their farms, but they hadn't wanted these people to actually stay in the United States. Lobbyist S. Parker Frizzell had told Congress in 1926, the Mexican is a homer. Like the pigeon, he goes home to roost. And Frizzell's promise had been that Mexicans weren't really immigrants, and thus they should be exempt from the USA's white supremacist immigration law. They were birds of passage, he argued, just hanging around for a little while to work. But by the turn of the decade, as we hit, like, start going into the 1930s, Mexicans had started to settle all across the Southwest, buying homes and starting communities in places like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. In 1900, only about 100,000 Mexican immigrants had lived in the United States. By 1930, there were one and a half million Mexican immigrants in this country. So this starts to freak out a lot of white agriculturalists, right? And it kind of, you know, they had been. They had been okay with these people coming into work, but at the end of the day, there were the same kind of white supremacists as the. The border patrol men. They were just a little bit more refined. And once it started to look like these. These Mexicans were coming in and actually going to be contributing and changing the demographics of the nation, they panicked. And the only thing they could really think of to do was give the Border Patrol more power to enforce how many Mexicans could enter the country. And there was a real big, like, debate over this, right, because you, you still needed a certain. As it. As these farmers, you still needed a certain minimum amount of migrants coming in every year in order to actually, like, keep your farms working. And the guy who kind of figured out a solution to this problem was Senator Coleman Livingston Bliss. He was a white supremacist congressman who first took office in 1925. And his solution was, rather than creating a system of quotas and caps that would have reduced manpower in American fields, he just wanted to criminalize unmonitored border crossing. So this is the very first time that it becomes illegal to cross the US Mexican border without doing it at a border station. That's 1929. That law is passed. And I'm going to quote from an article in the Conversation explaining what happened here. According to Bliss's bill, unlawfully entering the country would be a misdemeanor, while unlawfully returning to the United States after deportation would be a felony. The idea was to force Mexican immigrants into an authorized and monitored stream that could be turned on and off at will at ports of entry. Any immigrant who entered the United States outside of bounds of the stream would be a criminal, subject to fines, imprisonment, and ultimately deportation. But it was a crime designed to impact Mexican immigrants in particular. Neither the Western agricultural businessmen nor the restrictionists registered any objections. Congress passed Blizz's bill, the Immigration act of March 4, 1929, and dramatically altered the story of crime and punishment in the United States. With stunning precision, the criminalization of unauthorized entry caged thousands of Mexicans, Mexico's birds of passage. By the end of 1930, the U.S. attorney General reported prosecuting 7,000 cases of unlawful entry. By the end of the decade, U.S. attorneys had prosecuted more than 44,000 cases. Now, Blizz's law applied technically to, like, Canadians as well, but basically everyone prosecuted under it was Mexican, and it was mainly used as kind of a method of non Mostly nonviolent ethnic cleansing. Like, I don't even know if I know if I'd say mostly nonviolent. It was used for ethnic cleansing. Throughout the 1930s, Mexicans made up at least 85% of all immigration prisoners. Sometimes some years they made up 99%. Three new prisons were built on the border to hold them all. And over the course of the decade, somewhere around 1 million Mexicans were deported from the United States. And most of these people were US citizens. Historian Francisco Balderrama argues that 60% of the million people who were deported were US citizens of Mexican descent. And Border Patrol forces would call what was happening here repatriation to make it seem voluntary. But what was really happening in the 30s was Border Patrol was just rounding. Opening up all of the Mexicans they could get and throwing them across the border and kind of accusing people of unlawful, like, crossing of the border, basically as a justification for. For kicking them out. So that's cool.

[Caitlin Durante]

I just. The. The resources that get used and spent to, like, enforce these laws and build prisons and maintain the prison, and just like, all. All of that, that costs so much time and is so much effort. Why, like, it would be so much easier if we would just let immigrants come and then just let them live and be a part of the community. I mean, I know.

[Robert Evans]

Why. Because. Yeah. Racism. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

It's absurd.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. The Border Patrol's pretty lame, Caitlin. You know, this is like. But like, this. This is what it is from the beginning. Like, one of the first things the Border Patrol ever does is deport a million people, more than half of whom are U.S. citizens. And it just lies about what it's doing. Because it's. From the beginning, its job has never been to actually enforce the rule of law or even protect the border. Its job is to protect whiteness.

[Caitlin Durante]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. So the very. The primary method of action for Border Patrol agents from the beginning up to now was violence. The force was always undermanned and underfunded, with a handful of officers responsible for thousands of miles of rugged terrain. There was little to no oversight, and agents generally used violence at their discretion, as this anecdote from the book Migra illustrates. Quote, one day in 1928, explained Stovall, who was a Border Patrol agent, he was patrolling alone near San Elizario, Texas, when he decided to drive through town. San Elizario was this little Mexican town on the Rio Grande, said Stovall, who remembered that when he got to town that day, he saw a Mexicano come out from behind the bank of a drainage ditch in the then duck back. Stovall admitted to knowing the man, but stopped the car and asked him, what do you have there in your bosom? The man reached into his shirt pocket and pulled out two bottles of beer and put them down on the bridge and broke them so he wouldn't have any evidence. Reflecting upon the incident, Stovall wondered, why didn't I pull out my gun and fire at that Mexican? I don't know. I don't know why. Instead of reaching for his gun and firing, Stovall fled. I got in my car and got away from there, remembered Stovall, because it was in daylight about 1 o' clock. If I had pulled my gun and fired, there would have been 50 Mexicans around me. That quick. According to Stovall, God spared his life that day by taking charge of his hands and preventing him from shooting at the Mexicano. So this is. This is 1928, and kind of a common attitude, like this Border Patrol agent approaches a guy who's got illegal alcohol and the dude breaks the bottles on him. And the man's lingering question that he's wondering for years afterwards is, why didn't I shoot that man to death? Like, yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

What some people think justifies killing another person is something I will never comprehend.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I don't think they thought they were people.

[Caitlin Durante]

True.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it's probably worth noting how common brutality was, like, open brutality was among US Law enforcement officials even at, like, pretty high levels in politics at this time. In May of 1954, Herbert Brownell, the Attorney General Eisenhower's Attorney General, gave a speech where he asked U.S. labor leaders for their support in the event that Border Patrol agents, quote, shot wetbacks in cold blood. So again, not saying, like, hey, we might have an accidental shooting, and I need your support because, like, what we're doing is hard and, you know, people are gonna mess up. He's like, you know, my guys might murder some. Some Mexicans. You know, my guys are absolutely going to commit murder in cold blood. And I need you to, like, have my back. Right. That's the Attorney General of the United States, 1954. Cool stuff.

[Dylan]

You know what else is cool stuff?

[Robert Evans]

I don't. Sophie, I can't imagine what you're going for here. What is cool stuff?

[Dylan]

That's fine. Don't. That's fine. I'll just leave.

[Robert Evans]

You know who isn't the. The Attorney General of the United States, hopefully the products and services that support this podcast. So racism's not good. You know who else isn't good? The head of The Border patrol in the 1950s.

[Caitlin Durante]

Another good pivot. Nice.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, a great pivot. So the guy in charge of the Border Patrol as we turn into the 1950s is an outright monster by the name of Harlan Carter. Now, Carter was, by the time he became the head of the Border Patrol, a convicted murderer. Yeah. In 1931, as a teenager, he'd shot a Mexican boy in the chest at point blank range with a 12 gauge shotgun. And the two had been having an argument and the Mexican boy had a knife. But he was not actively threatening Carter. And in fact, he'd laughed at the boy's gun because he just kind of seemed to think it was silly that they were having a fight at all. And Carter shot him to death because he was angry for being laughed at. He was convicted of murder and sentenced to three years in prison. But he was let out after two owing to a technicality. So back in 1931, by the way, you could shoot a man in the chest with a 12 gauge and get three years. That's neat. I love laws. Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

Our justice system is cool.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. He got rehabilitated. He went on to become the head of the Border Patrol and also was the head of the nra. Uh, oh, Harlan Carter's an interesting piece of shit. So throughout the 40s, apprehensions by the Border Patrol were kind of ad hoc and disorganized. And they were mostly the result of individual ages. Agents seeking out undocumented immigrants by catching them in transit. This meant that large numbers of people were almost never apprehended at a time. It was more just like agents kind of going out and hunting people down and grabbing a couple of folks. This was an easy system for dumb, violent men to like, figure out. You know, you just kind of. It's like hunting, basically. And it appealed to the kind of folks who became Border Patrol agents. But starting in 1950, a young agent named Albert Quillen began to change things. He was intelligent and ambitious, and when the chief supervisor of Border Patrol demanded that he and his colleagues increase apprehensions, Quillen began experimenting with bold new strategies. At 5am on Feb. 11, Quillen took a detail of 12 patrolmen with two buses, one plane, one truck and nine automobiles. The men drove out to a small station in Rio Hondo, Texas, and then split into two groups to clean as well as possible a certain section of illegal aliens. The plane acted as a spotter while the buses were used to, quote, haul wets to the border. 100 people were apprehended in short order and they were deported the next Day. Quillen soon moved on with his force to a series of farms near Los Fresnos, Texas. They found 561 wets, which is, again, always the term they use for the. Do you understand where that term comes from?

[Caitlin Durante]

I don't know that I actually know the source of it. No.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So basically the idea is that there were kind of two options for Mexicans at this time. There was the bracero program, which was a program by which they could kind of enter the country quasi legally and get, like, legal working rights to be like a laborer or something like that. And then there was. You could just cross the border right illegally. And that usually meant crossing the Rio Grande, which is a river. Right. So you wind up wet on the other side of the river. So they call them wetbacks like that. That's. That's still, to this day a racist slang term for particularly Mexicans, but kind of all people of. Of Hispanic descent in a lot of Texas. Like, you hear it a lot from racists there. And the Border Patrol, it is their standard term for these people. This is, like, on all of their professional documents and everything, this is what they call migrants. Yeah. So Quillen's forces catch 561 wets on their second day. And on their third day, they catch 264. On the fourth day, they catch 134. In less than a week, they captured and deported more than 1,000 undocumented laborers. And was this. This was like, unprecedented. The Border patrol had never caught this many people this quickly. It was seen as an astonishing achievement by Quillen's superiors. And they began setting up other raids in imitation of his. Border patrol supervisors noted that these new task forces, as they started being called, were, quote, pounding away on these wets. Cool dudes. Soon, multiple task forces had been established throughout California and Texas, carrying out constant raids and netting huge numbers of undocumented persons. Persons. On some single days, more than 5,000 Mexican nationals would be apprehended and shipped to temporary detention camps. Before being sent back across, the border Patrolmen handed deportees notes that read, quote, you have entered the United States illegally and in violation of the laws of your land and those of the United States. For this reason, you are being returned to your homeland. If you return again illegally, you will be arrested and punished as provided by law. We understand that the life of a wetback is difficult. Wetbacks are unable to work for more than a few hours before they are apprehended and deported. Remember these words and transmit the news to your families and countrymen. If you want to do them a favor. So that's fun.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yikes.

[Robert Evans]

Nice letter there.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, terrifying language. Also, you had said alien. That that was something that had been and still gets. Like, that language is still used, and it's just the most dehumanizing word.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

To refer to simply someone who travels to another place and wants to stay there.

[Robert Evans]

It's pretty crazy because we don't use that word for, I don't know, us. I'm excited for when we have finally the big civil war that we're all planning to have and suddenly a shitload of.

[Dylan]

I'm not a fan for the next civil war we have, but continue.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I'm. I'm excited for the people who treated Syrian refugees and treat Guatemalan and Honduran and Mexican refugees like shit. And I'm excited for them all to, I don't know, get gunned down by Canadian border guards as. As we deserve as a nation. I don't know. I'm angry all the time, Caitlin. I'm sorry. That's not right.

[Caitlin Durante]

Likewise. So am I. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Anyway, it'll be up to Canada to be racist then, and then eventually Alaska and then the biosphere will die. So you know what won't die? Caitlyn.

[Dylan]

Raytheon, are you doing an unnecessary transition? Do your podcast. Do your podcast.

[Robert Evans]

I know. I went off on a really sad rant, and so I decided to throw in a Raytheon ad, because everybody likes thinking about Raytheon, so. So back to the Border Patrol. So the Border Patrol would, like, pick up all these folks, huge numbers, thousands in a day sometimes. And they would put them in these, like, temporary camps and then would take them into Mexico, where the Mexican military would basically dump them in the middle of the country as far away from the border as possible. And these were generally places where there was no work and where these migrants had no family connections. And it was just a horrible situation for most people. As a result of these new tactics, between 1950 and 1953, the number of Border Patrol apprehensions nearly doubled from 469,000 to almost 840,000. This caused immediate problems for ranchers and farmers, who started to realize that the new legal powers they'd given the Border Patrol had vastly realigned the organization's power in a way that allowed the white supremacists who ran it to harm agribusiness by wiping out their workforce. At stake was also a sort of cultural readjustment. Farmers and ranchers were used to occupying a position at the. Of the top of society. But now Border Patrol men could exercise the power of deportation again and take away their workers. In Texas border towns like Marfa, farmers hired armed guards, hired lookouts, and booby trapped farm gates in order to protect their workforce. There were gunfights with Border Patrol, with these like white farmers trying to defend their workforce. And as the conflict between the farmers and Border Patrol grew uglier, white border town farmers suddenly found themselves facing off against the same men who'd hunted their workers. The book Migra tells the story of D.C. newton, whose family were Border Patrol farmers who posted guards to warn about raids. They went asleep one night in 1952 and woke up to find that dozens of Border Patrol agents had snuck in with their headlights off and to surprise everyone sleeping in the farmhouse and adjacent quarters. The Newton's oldest son was faster though, and he succeeded in warning the undocumented migrants staying on the farm, which gave them the time they needed to run like hell and hide in the trees. Trees. When the Border Patrol men came up empty in their search, they went after the white folks who actually owned the farm. And I'm going to quote from the book Megra now. They entered Newton's parents bedroom and began shining the flashlights in my mother's eyes and my father's eyes, telling them to get up, we're going to go out and find where your Mexicans are. With my father in his pajamas, my mother his mother in a nightgown, and no one wearing any shoes, the officers forced the family out of the house while pushing, physically pushing my mother in the back, pushing my father in the back and demanding to know where the wetbacks were. Were most of the workers had fled, including Newton's nanny Lupe, for whom the officers claimed to be searching. In particular, she had heard the arrival of the patrolman and climbed out of the window on the second floor of the farmhouse, rolled down onto the roof of the garage and run off to the southeast and was gone. Although the Newtons believed they had outsmarted the Border Patrol by alerting the migrants to the raid, the head Border Patrol inspector still led 53 apprehended workers away, saying, see how you handle your groves now. Now that's like a bad story and everything, but what's interesting here is I guess how horrible Newton's family is here too. Because the interview with him goes on and he makes it clear that when he kind of. When his dad explained to him what was happening with the Border Patrol, his dad compared the conflict to the Civil War and the side that he identified with was not the good side. Quote, Newton's father believed that by taking away their workers, the damn Yankee Border Patrol were splitting up a household. As he explained it to his son, the South Texans protected their homes, their families, their property, and their way of life from the Border Patrol raids. He was the master. The Mexican illegals were equivalent to the black slaves, and together they formed a household, a system of labor relations, and a world of tightly bound intimacy and inequity. The Border Patrol threatened their household by reducing the farmers control over Mexico's unsanctioned migrant workers. So as the Southerners had rebelled against intrusions upon their labor relations and plantation lives, the Newton family had to defend itself against the U.S. border Patrol. Newton's brother took the lesson to heart. When the Border Patrol raided on another night, he stood in the family driveway with a shotgun aimed at the officers. Startled by the hostile 12 year old boy, the officers left the property and returned on another day. So, yeah, what's happening here is really complicated. Yeah. Right.

[Caitlin Durante]

There's an important thing to remember here, which is that even of the like, like white ranch farm owners who are maybe not in favor of their workforce being sent back to their country of origin, they are still exploiting these workers, these migrant workers, and, you know, probably not paying them well, probably not offering them, you know, good benefits, etc.

[Robert Evans]

And probably like keeping them in very primitive living situations, often like little more than a shack, often like kind of nightmarish situ like these guys did. These migrants often did live very similarly to slaves. Right. It wasn't quite that bad, but it was bad. And these, these farmers are like, the Border Patrol agents want these migrants out because they're racist as fuck. And these farmers are also racist as fuck. They just want the migrants to stay because it.

[Caitlin Durante]

Because they can exploit the basis of their power.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly right. So again, no one to root for here other than like these migrants, but they seem to mostly get just fucked over by everybody. And that's not fun. Yep. So, yeah, it's important to remember that kind of the struggle between Border Patrol and these border farmers in Texas was a struggle between two different groups of white supremacists. And one group of white supremacists was broadly in the right because I guess it's. It's worse to round up thousands of people in cattle cars and buses and throw them back across the border for no good reason.

[Caitlin Durante]

Mm.

[Robert Evans]

But there's no one you should be rooting for here. But what's really interesting, what I find fascinating about this whole conflict, is that these Racist plantation owning white border farmers wound up like fighting the Border Patrol by kind of co opting the language of social justice. Starting in the 1950s, ranchers began to argue that Mexican nationals were being unfairly targeted for deportations. They complained that the buses, planes and trains used to take migrants away were cruel, inhuman and outrageous practices trading in human misery. They began to argue that hiring Mexicans was an act of kindness by American ranchers. Mexican laborers deserved the chance to win a better life by working low paid jobs as domestic servants and laborers. The Border Patrol was in fact actually fostering communism by sending these men and women back to the interior of Mexico where they would no doubt live on in miserable poverty and join some leftist guerrilla movement. So.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah, because their lives being exploited, farm hands in the US is so much better. What? Oh my gosh.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's pretty cool how naturally that came to these farmers. I like it. So the Border Patrol obviously didn't listen to the protests against them. They continued to, in their own words, pound away in the borderlands, raising apprehensions. The increased workload necessary necessitated more men and facilities. And in 1953, the Border Patrol attempted to hire 240 additional officers and made plans to build two new detention centers at the lower Rio Grande Valley. This enraged local farmers and won quite, quote, threatened to arm his wetback laborers against the Border Patrol, threatening that there is liable to be a couple of dead Border Patrolmen. Death threats against patrolmen became a daily occurrence and farmers in the Lower Rio Grande lobbied their congressmen to deny the appropriation requests necessary to fund the new men and facilities. These farmers insisted they weren't lobbying for their own benefit, but for doing were doing it for migrants who were victims of the Patrol's cheap vindictiveness. A great hunger to rule or ruin, to control, to govern, anything to carry a poor point, reckless of the consequences to the poor workmen which they herd around as cattle. And they weren't wrong in this. The facility the Border Patrol wanted to build was essentially a concentration camp. Eventually, Congress listened and the appropriation request was denied. So like the protest of all these guys in Texas worked, the Border Patrol had to send its 240 men back home and cancel construction. According to the book Migra, quote, one month after losing the supplemental appropriation, Chief Kelly announced the Border Patrol's withdrawal from the Rio Grande Valley to a new defense line 10 miles to the north of King' Furious and Hebronville. Rather than fight a losing battle in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, the Border Patrol decided to pull out of the area because with limited forces, we can best control the wetback invasion, as at the line farther north. It's one of those things, I guess, like I always kind of debate when you've got like something that is essentially a slur or is a slur in an episode of like this, how often to say it. And it's one of those things where I kind of feel like cleaning up. The Border Patrol's official statement in the matter would be, I don't know, making it seem like they were less of a naked force for white supremacy than they were. Sure. Like if you replace that with Mexican nationals, that's not really what they're saying, right? Yeah, I don't know.

[Caitlin Durante]

That's. Yeah, I mean, that puts you in a pretty tricky position. Yeah, I don't know.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, they use it a lot. The Border Patrol are cool guys. And we're about to hear it used again in another big way. So the men of the Border Patrol did see the immigration of Mexicans into the US as an invasion and they sought to repel it with military force as kind of that language above. Right. Referring to it as a defensive line and stuff, like they're defending whiteness again. And they see the encroachment of these undocumented migrants as like an assault on white blood more than anything else. In 1953, with the rebellion of the Texas ranchers in full Sweden wing, Harlan Carter, who's again the murderer who became the head of the Border Patrol, sat down with two US Generals to ask for their help. He wanted the military and the National Guard to assist the Border Patrol in a nationwide purge of undocumented Mexican nationals called Operation Cloudburst. The first step for this would be an anti infiltration campaign to seal the border with the help of 2180 troops. Border Patrol would station soldiers at strategic locations and build several long fences to block areas of heavy trenches traffic. This part of the operation is fairly standard, aside from the presence of US troops. Part two, though would be a containment operation which would involve roadblocks on every major highway from the southwest to the interior of North America. These checkpoints would be used to search vehicles for illegal migrants around the clock. Part three was the mopping up phase and this would involve a massive series of raids in northern locations. Places far from the border like San Francisco, where groups of migrants were believed to have gathered. Businesses and camps would be raided and the arrested migrants would be airlifted or sent by train to the interior of Mexico. Now again using the military. This was essentially he wanted to bring in the army to carry out a military action to purge the United States of Hispanic people. That's what the head of Border Patrol is trying to do here. And all of the military guys he talked to are like, this sounds like a great idea. We'd love to help, but it's illegal. Right? Posse Comitatus means you can't use the army for shit like this. The only way around it is a presidential proclamation. And Dwight Eisenhower was actually initially all on board with issuing that proclamation, but in the end, he kind of backed away. And instead he appointed a General Joseph Swing, to be the new commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service. And was basically like, we can't use soldiers for this because it's unconstitutional. But I'm going to promote a general to be in charge of the ins. And you figure out a way to do the same thing with the resources Border Patrol has. Like, use your. Yeah, yeah. I still want a military operation to clear out these Hispanic people. People. I just can't use soldiers. So that's cool.

[Caitlin Durante]

Good grief.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

The mental gymnastics that.

[Robert Evans]

What? Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

That these people do to justify their horrible actions. Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's pretty great. I don't know. So. One month after joining ins, General Swing announces that he's going to be leading the Border Patrol in a new paramilitary campaign based on the tactics pioneered by Albert Quinn Quillen. The new operation is given the name Operation Wetback. Again, that's the Border Patrol's official name for it. That's what all these guys call it. That's what it's written up in. In the documents and stuff.

[Caitlin Durante]

Geez Louise.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, they just didn't have a fuck to give on this matter. So, true to form, Border Patrol was only given four weeks to prepare for what would become the largest operation in their history. The plan was to engage in an unprecedented sweep, deporting hundreds of thousands, thousands of people. No one received any training or specialized equipment to actually do this, though. All that most agents had on June 9, 1954, when the operation began, was a letter from General Swing ordering them to purge the nation by removing the huge number of Mexican nationals who were in this country in violation of the immigration laws. Always good to hear about a purge.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yikes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. So in its first day, California and. Or in the first day of this operation, California and Arizona, agents apprehended nearly 11,000. The flood of people only accelerated after that, and the sheer number of deportees overwhelmed the Border Patrol's capacity to hold or carry them. People were left in primitive, exposed concentration camps for days The Border Patrol turned Elysian park in Los Angeles into an open air concentration camp. Yeah, that's neat. Go to Elysian Park.

[Caitlin Durante]

It's I've been there before and I'll never go again.

[Robert Evans]

A lot of the men who were interned there, men and women, got sick and sometimes died of sunstroke because there was no care given to their health. And it can get very hot down there. 25% of all deportees were transported by boats, many of which were so cramped and filthy that their occupants later compared them to slave ships or penal hell ships. So that's great. The Mexican government's capacity to take and transport all these people broke down almost immediately. And they were like, we need you to, to not send these people to us so quickly because we can't handle them. And the US Government said, we don't give a fuck. And kept just shotgunning people on over there. And the sheer scale of deportations began to fuck with American industry. But Border Patrol didn't really give a shit about this either. I'm gonna quote again from the book migra. Between June 17 and July 26, 1954, 2,827 of the 4,403 migrants apprehended by 6 Task, the task force assigned to the Los Angeles area had worked in industry. After Border Patrol raids during the summer of 1954, three Los Angeles brickyards were left without sufficient numbers of workers and temporarily closed down their operations. Similarly, Border Patrol officers paid close attention to the hotel and restaurant business, which routinely hired undocumented Mexican immigrants as busboys, kitchen help, waiters, etc. Officers reported apprehending such workers at well known establishments such as the Biltmore Hotel, Beverly Hills Hotel, Hotel Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, Los Angeles Athletic Club, and the Brown Derby. At times, the Border Patrol raids created moments of chaos at popular restaurants when migrants attempted to escape by running through the serving area. The raids were public and regularly drew significant attention from the press. And this was part of the point. The reason the Border Patrol focused so much on Los Angeles, unlike raids in big Hollywood locations, is because they were trying to make a point to these, like these ranchers who were still fighting them in, in South Texas. And the message was, if we're willing to do this shit in fucking Hollywood, you'd better believe that one day we're gonna come to your ranch and fuck you up, right? Like, if we'll do this to the Biltmore, we'll ruin you. Like, we don't give a shit. We're the, we're the Border Patrol. And in the end, Operation Wetback was responsible for the deportations of somewhere between a quarter of a million at the low end and about 1.5 million people at the high end. And, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, it kind of ended in retreat by the Border Patrol. Part of this was that around the same time, the US Government reformed the Bracero program, which allowed Mexican nationals to get legal working status in the US and that became much more popular after this time. So a lot of these. These ranchers and farmers started making sure that their workers kind of went through a legal path to gain working status in the United States. And some of it was just that, like, there was blowback to this program. It wasn't very popular. All of the massive public rental raids and kind of as a result, Border Patrol apprehensions plummeted the next year. In 1955, the task forces that had once captured thousands of migrants in a day were disbanded and demobilized. And for a little while, it seemed as if the Border Patrol had gone into hibernation. Of course, that Caitlin was not the case. And in part two, we're going to talk about the fact that we haven't even talked about any of the worst shit that the Border Patrol gets up to in this episode, because that's how much worse it gets.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, yay. Can't wait to hear about it.

[Robert Evans]

So how are you feeling?

[Caitlin Durante]

I feel pretty terrible.

[Robert Evans]

That's good. I love it when people feel terrible.

[Caitlin Durante]

I'm always like, oh, I. I can't wait to be a guest on behind the Bastards. And then every time I do it, I'm like, oh, yes. I'm reminded by how horrible people have been to each other.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. And you were the one who picked this topic with a text message. Lol. I think the Border Patrol sounds fun.

[Dylan]

She did.

[Robert Evans]

There you are.

[Dylan]

She did not.

[Caitlin Durante]

That did never happen. But, yeah, I mean, it's good to be informed about these things. So I appreciate learning and being further informed about it. So I. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. You're welcome. Caitlyn, thank you for coming on.

[Dylan]

Is there a. A places people might be able to find you, listen to you, ways to support your work?

[Caitlin Durante]

Why, there certainly are places to do that, starting with. You can follow me personally on Twitter and Instagram at caitlindurant. You can also check out my podcast right here on this network. It's called the Bechtel Cast. I co host it with Jamie Loftus, and we talk about the representation of women in film and just film in General examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. So that is what we do. And you can. Yeah, check that out.

[Dylan]

Screenwriting classes right now.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, yes. Yes, I am. Thank you so much for bringing that up. I also teach screenwriting on account of a master's degree in screenwriting that I absolutely hate to mention or ever just bring up, but it does allow me to teach online classes. So if that's of any interest to anyone, go to my website, Caitlindurante.com classes and I usually have new sections coming up, starting soon at any given point, so.

[Robert Evans]

And if you want to learn from me, I don't teach screenwriting, but I do teach screamwriting, which is where you sit down with a pencil and paper and I scream at you, and then eventually you give me money to go away.

[Caitlin Durante]

That sounds very educational.

[Robert Evans]

We all have to have an extra couple of Griffiths. So either pay Caitlyn for an actual service or pay me to abuse you.

[Dylan]

Either way, don't love that as a.

[Robert Evans]

You know what, Sophie? Look, everybody, look, you gotta. You gotta be mean to the audience, Sophie. You gotta.

[Dylan]

I love our kick. I don't know about you. I love them. I appreciate them.

[Caitlin Durante]

Wait.

[Dylan]

And I appreciate you, Robert. So, kindness.

[Caitlin Durante]

Is there any way in which you think that, like, closing out a podcast is similar to making love just to bring things full circle? Wow, good question.

[Robert Evans]

Here's how closing a podcast is like making love. Both of them are inherently disappointing. And.

[Dylan]

That'S the end of the episode. You can hear Robert and I write okay. On Twitter. You can follow us at Bastard spot on Twitter and Instagram. We have a te. Public store. That's it.

[Robert Evans]

Bye.

[Caitlin Durante]

Bye.

[Robert Evans]

Bye. Wasn't that delicious?

[Caitlin Durante]

So good.

[Robert Evans]

Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Sophie]

I insisted first.

[Robert Evans]

Don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo active cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

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[Robert Evans]

Company.

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[Sophie]

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[Robert Evans]

Hello, world, but specifically Australia. This is Robert Evans, host of behind the Bastards. And I just wanted my Australian listeners in particular to know that I stood up for you against Caitlin's cruelty. Just a minute ago, she pronounced the name of your greatest city. Melbourne. Melbourne. Melbourne. Like a savage.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah, I said Melbourne. And then. But then. Okay, well, what about the people who live in Sydney or. Or other cities in Australia?

[Robert Evans]

There's one city in Australia, its name is Melbourne. And that's the end of this digression. Hello, Caitlin Durante, guest for today's episode. How are you doing?

[Caitlin Durante]

Well, I would be doing better if you would pronounce my last Name correctly. Speaking of mispronunciation.

[Dylan]

Durante, Caitlin. Durante.

[Caitlin Durante]

Durante.

[Robert Evans]

I think we've all learned a lesson about maybe not judging each other because it's impossible to ever know how words are supposed to be said.

[Dylan]

Yeah, he thinks Ariana Grande's name is Ariana Grande, so.

[Robert Evans]

You know, Sophie, you've been giving me guff about that one for a while, as it deserves.

[Caitlin Durante]

Mm.

[Robert Evans]

Well, now I'm sad.

[Dylan]

Don't be sad, Robert.

[Robert Evans]

This is part two.

[Dylan]

If I were to pick on a white man at the beginning of an episode, then, like, what's the point?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, this is. This is a whole episode about. I don't know. It's part two of our Border Patrol series.

[Caitlin Durante]

Let's pass the Bechdel test right now, Sophie.

[Robert Evans]

Oh.

[Dylan]

Oh, Caitlyn, I. I'm really enjoying the bluish shirt you're wearing right now.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so glad you brought it up because it's a Paddington shirt that says Migration is not a crime, which is relevant to today's episode.

[Sophie]

Oh, wow.

[Dylan]

It really is relevant to today's episode that we're recording.

[Caitlin Durante]

But then I said Paddington and that. That messed up the Bechtel test.

[Dylan]

I was like, are we gendering Paddington right now? Because that didn't happen.

[Caitlin Durante]

Paddington is a non binary asexual icon.

[Dylan]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So kind of passed the Bechtel test. Okay, Robert, do you want to host your show behind the Basterds right now?

[Robert Evans]

Because that's. I don' we passed the Bechtel test there. But you know what test we did pass is the writing for many hours about the Border Patrol test.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Which is a more important test? I think. So, you know this one, we're splitting up a little bit weirdly, over the course of two weeks because my entire life and schedule has been continually thrown into chaos. So I do apologize for this one being done a little bit differently than others are doing. Done. On December 6, 2018, seven year old Jacqueline Call crossed the US Mexico border near a place called Antelope Wells, New Mexico. She was with her father, 29 year old nary Call. Both were Kekchi Maya, and they'd lived most of their lives in the Alta Vera Paz region of Guatemala. Starving and desperate, she and her family turned themselves into the Border Patrol. When Jacqueline was taken into their custody, she was already beginning to show signs of illness. What would turn out to have been a streptococcal infection. Infection. DHS maintains that they conducted an initial screening and that there was no Evidence of health issues in the little girl. Jacqueline was placed on a Border Patrol bus, feverish and vomiting from severe dehydration. Eight hours after being taken into custody, she began to suffer seizures. She died the next day. Gomez Alonso, age 8, crossed the US Mexico border sometime around December 18th. He and his father Augustin, were members of the Choose Between People, another Mayan group who came from the Huehuetenango region of Guatemala. Gomez spent six days in Border Patrol custody, shuttled around from New Mexico to El Paso and then back to New Mexico to be interned in a detention facility named near Alamogordo. He started to show symptoms of sickness. On the 24th, he was taken to the hospital where he was tested for the cold but not for influenza, which he had. He was given medicine that could not help him and sent back to jail, where he died on Christmas Eve 2008.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, no.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. Good. Good times.

[Caitlin Durante]

That's awful.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's real bad. The deaths of Gomez and Jacqueline were briefly very big news in the United States. It was believed that the two were the first child immigrant deaths in Border patrol custody since 2010. In 2019, though, it was revealed that another child, Darrilyn Cordova Vol. Of El Salvador, had actually died back in September 2018 under similar circumstances. The Trump administration received a lot of blame, both for covering this death up to try to influence the midterm elections and for their failure to push DHS to take any meaningful action to stop kids from dying at the border. Three dead children is a tragedy, but their little corpses are actually just the top of an iceberg of dead people, many of them Guatemalan, that we can lay at the feet of Border Patrol agents. And you might be surprised to learn how that whole situation came about. You want to hear about this, Caitlyn? Excited.

[Caitlin Durante]

I have to. Also, what colorful language you used in terms of the corpses or the top of an iceberg. I mean, wow.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. You know, I. I think if you're gonna talk about dead kids, you should do it with a little bit of panaz. Pizazz. Panache.

[Caitlin Durante]

All right, I'm ready. I'm. Keep going.

[Robert Evans]

All right, so let's talk about. About the Border Patrol. And in Central America, we're going to talk about something I don't think a lot of people know about, because usually, as a rule, when we talk about how bad the Border Patrol is, we talk about, like, how mean they are to people who come up to the border, but we don't talk about what a lot of Border Patrol guys did in the countries that these People are fleeing from before people started fleeing from those countries. So this is going to be fun.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

This is going to be a good time for everybody. So John P. Longan was a U.S. border Patrol agent in the 1940s and 50s. He worked near the Mexican border, close to where both Jacqueline and Gomez crossed over. Most sources you find on the matter will note that he had a reputation for violence, but this was not at all uncommon among the men of the Border Patrol. Nor is it uncommon now during Operation Wetback, when the Border Patrol reformed itself into a paramilitary force to wage war on Mexican immigrants. Long and Run the patrols ran the Patrol's equivalent of a military intelligence service. Longan's base was an unmarked building near Alameda. He and his men interrogated captured migrants, extracted information, and used it to find and capture other groups of migrants. Few of the men who endured these interrogations ever spoke about it, but a lot of what happened in those cells probably verged on what we'd consider torture. Longan was good at his job, and his performance in Operation Wetback earned him a transfer to the State Department's public safety program. Now, this was, in reality, a CIA operation geared at providing counterinsurgency training and advice to allied nations combating communist insurgencies. The CIA handpicked a number of Border Patrol agents to travel to places like Venezuela, Thailand, the Dominican Republic, and Guatemala. They particularly liked recruiting guys like Longan because they were likely to speak Spanish. Now, the way the State Department framed this program was training law enforcement. So, yeah, the State Department framed this program as training law enforcement. The reality, though, is that Longan and his fellow Border Patrolmen were sent over to places like Guatemala to create and train death squads. During Operation Wetback, Border Patrol administrators had described their work as fighting back against an invasion. In Guatemala, where Longan arrived in 1965, he was finally able to wage a real war using real weapons. I'm going to quote now from an article in the Nation, quote. Longan taught local intelligence and police agencies how to create death squads to target political activities, activists deploying tactics that he had earlier used to capture migrants on the border. He arrived in Guatemala in late 1965, where he put into place a paramilitary unit that early the next year would execute what he called Operation Limpieza or operation cleanup. Within three months, this unit had conducted over 80 raids and multiple extrajudicial assassinations, including an action that over the course of four days captured, tortured and executed more than 30 prominent left opposition leaders. Leaders the military dumped their bodies into the sea while the Government denied any knowledge of their whereabouts. According to Stuart Schrader in his forthcoming Badges Without How Global Counterinsurgency Transformed American Policing, it was common practice during the Cold War to send former Border patrol agents like Longan to train foreign police through CIA linked public safety programs. Since they were more likely to speak Spanish than agents from other branches of law enforcement in countries like El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, they did the dirty work that Reagan's envoys said needed doing. Until the early 1970s, the United States, according to a 1974 Los Angeles Times report, was flying its Latin American death squad apprentices up to the Border Patrol Academy in Los Fresnos, Texas to receive training from CIA instructors in the design, manufacture, and potential use of bombs and incendiary devices. Long and himself in 1957 clearly described what he thought he was doing at the border. We're fighting a war on a wide battlefront, so that's good.

[Caitlin Durante]

So they're just basically training kill squads. They're just training people to murder people.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And they're, they're pulling border patrol guys off the line to do some of the training to be like, oh, you already are good at like, tracking down these groups of people who are trying to like, facilitate movement of, of migrants through the United States. You can use those skills to track down political activists. Except that, you know, since it's in a foreign country country, you can just have them brutally murdered by death squads. And these guys are happy to do it because they want to be murdering people anyway. They just can't quite usually murder people, you know, at the border. I mean, they do it a lot anyway, but like, they have to be a little bit careful. But you don't have to be careful at all in Guatemala, so that's great.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, gee whiz.

[Robert Evans]

Have you ever been to Guatemala, Caitlyn?

[Caitlin Durante]

I have not.

[Robert Evans]

It rules. Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time there. It's a great country, beautiful place, completely dysfunctional government. And you can see like signs of the horrible civil war there all over the place. Just like you'll cross the street and there'll just be a bunch of guys who are all missing arms and legs. You'll be driving through the middle of nowhere and you'll see like, businesses that have been like, were shot up decades ago with mortars and stuff. And it, you know, it all kind of descends from this, the series of political conflicts that launch in this period of time, particularly in the early 1980s, 80s that are backed by the United States and supported enthusiastically by the Reagan government and these Kind of networks of right wing murder crews that were trained up and sent out by the CIA and their buddies in groups like the Border Patrol. This all starts now and it's cool, it's great.

[Caitlin Durante]

And it's probably, it's, I mean it's refugees from.

[Robert Evans]

Yep.

[Caitlin Durante]

These conflicts that are seeking refuge in.

[Robert Evans]

Right up to the today.

[Caitlin Durante]

And then they get here and they're like, well, sorry, you, we're either going to murder you or be negligent and let you die in our custody or send you back to this, you know, war torn country you're in.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, if you listen to right wingers, they'll usually say something like, oh, they should go back to their own country and fix its problems. And the reality is that like, well, some of them tried to do that. And then we trained death squads to murder them and throw their bodies in rivers and stuff in the ocean. And that's why people are less willing to try to fix problems because they get killed and so do their children because of the guys that we hired and trained to kill them and their children when they attempt to fight for economic justice.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oops.

[Robert Evans]

It's good. It's really good is what I'm getting at. So Operation Limpieza, which, you know, Longan, the border patrol guy orchestrated himself, was a major moment in the history of Guatemala's collapse into a nightmare. The military intelligence system he helped to build would eventually eliminate tens of thousands of leftist activists, sympathizers and random people mistaken for either. More than 200,000 people were massacred openly. Tens of thousands more were tortured in this way. The brave men of the Border Patrol wound up at both sides of a tragedy. The genocide they trained right wing Guatemalan militants to execute fell heavily on various Maya peoples of the region, including the Keqchi and the Chuj. The right wing dictator who helped to organize much of this violence was General Afrain Rios Montt. He rose to power in 1981 and 1982, cooing his way into command with the help of his good friends the us. Ronald Reagan described him as a man of great integrity who was totally dedicated to democracy. The nation's write up makes it continues. Quote On June 17, 1982, Guatemalan soldiers under the command of Rios Montt entered the San Francisco Catalyst immediate adjacent to Yalombolok. The estate's owner, a military colonel, had fled because of guerrilla activity in the area. Soldiers went house by house rounding up workers and their families whom they accused of supporting the guerrillas. They separated children from their parents and killed them by slashing their stomachs or smashing their heads against poles. Women were raped and then burned alive. The soldiers killed the men with bullets or by beheading. After a day of slaughter, 350 people were dead. A lone survivor made his way into Mexico, where Guatemalan anthropologist and Jesuit priest Ricardo Falla interviewed. Interviewed him. The San Francisco massacre was highlighted in Guatemala's 1999 Truth Commission report. After the massacre, Yalambalok residents fled along with thousands of others, leaving the border corridor between Guatemala and Mexico completely depopulated as government troops razed their villages. Some were captured and killed by the army as they fled. Others ended up in refugee camps or dispersed throughout Mexico's southern states. Still others continued on to the United States, beginning the great movement of Guatemalans to El Normal norte. All told, 1.5 million people were displaced by the Guatemalan army's scorched earth Campaign in 1981 and 1982. Guatemala's Commission for Historical Clarification called the violent displacement in the Maya choose region an act of genocide. Young Felipe Gomez Alizano's father, he was the little kid, one of the little kids who died. Augustin Gomez Perez was a child of 11 during that execute. Yalambalak's villagers stayed away for 14 years, returning only after the signing of the peace accords in 1996. So that's cool.

[Caitlin Durante]

What can you say besides that's horrible?

[Robert Evans]

You can say that, like, we're focusing on Guatemala right here because it's one where there's a bit more documentation, but, like, this shit happened in El Salvador. It happened in a bunch of different parts of Latin and Central America where, you know, refugees come from all the time now. It's still, in a lot of ways, going on today. If you want to read about, like, Plan Colombia and stuff, like, there's aspects of this that are very much still occurring and that the Border patrol still winds up getting tied up and from time to time. And that's great.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, good grief. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

This is like the stuff that part of me that, like, is optimistic wants to believe that, oh, if people just knew this, like, knew how this all, how US Policy and US Plotting played into the tragedy being suffered by these people and, like, the insecurity of these regions, they would have better attitudes towards, you know, Guatemalan migration and whatnot into the United States. And then the part of me that that has been paying attention for the last several decades knows that, like, no, actually people would cheer the murders of the folks and the destruction of these areas because. Because Americans have been so thoroughly broken by Propaganda that the people who are still on the right and still broadly pro American can't be convinced by any reason that any amount of murder or violence is not justified by the fact that America is cool as hell.

[Caitlin Durante]

It is this. What a toxic mentality that we as Americans, or at least some of us have, have. Because, like, and this is. I'm not about to say anything new or profound here, but the fact that, you know, the white European settlers were escaping the same, you know, kind of civil unrest or religious persecution or whatever it was that caused them to flood their countries, and then. And then we settled here by killing millions of indigenous people. And now we're like, well, our borders are closed now. Sorry, everyone. And it's like, how. How can you live. How can these people live with the hypocrisy of that simple fact?

[Robert Evans]

Because they. They're. They're shit anyway.

[Caitlin Durante]

They're shit.

[Robert Evans]

So most of these death squads were trained in the United States because, like, hey, if you're gonna build a death squad for a foreign country, you don't want to, like, train it there. That's kind of gauche. So you bring them into your country to train them there because you're good at training death squads. So the facility where they actually trained a lot of these death squads, and again, not just in Guatemala, but for places like Colombia and El Salvador all throughout the fucking world, the place where they would, like, take these men to teach them how to be terrorists, how to make bombs and all this shit, was the Los Fresnos, Texas Border Patrol facility. It was an existing base. It was in a good location, and the Border Patrol was perfectly happy to have Minsilt over there to learn how to become murderous gorillas and then set off terrorist bombs in the middle of their own countries because they were like. That sounds like a thing the Border Patrol should be involved with. Now, the technical investigations course that was given to foreign police there was taught by CIA instructors. It lasted for weeks. And it included curriculum like terrorist conflict concepts, terrorist devices, fabrication and functioning of devices, improvised triggering devices, incendiaries, and assassination weapons. A discussion of various weapons which may be used by the assassin. And when you read it like that, you can kind of trick yourself into thinking it might not be like, it might be a reasonable thing for cops to learn. Right? Of course, cops might need to learn about terrorist concepts and the kind of weapons assassins use. But these were not just informational courses. They were instructed. So the police who attended weren't just learning, oh, here's weapons that assassins sometimes use. They were like learning, like, if you're going to assassinate somebody, here's a variety of different weapons that you can use to assassinate people. And we're just learning, like, here's different ways terrorists build triggers for bombs. They were learning, here's how to build triggers for the bombs you're going to make to kill people. The, the reality of the, the whole, the whole program came out during congressional investigations in the 1970s. And I'm going to quote now from a book titled Instruments, Instruments of Statecraft, US Guerrilla Warfare, Counterinsurgency and Counterterrorism, which is available for, in full for free online. Right, right now, quote. During congressional investigations led by Senator James Alberesque In 1973, eight officials admitted that the Los Fresnos sessions, what the press would call the bomb school, offered lessons not in bomb disposal, but in bomb making. The course is not designed to, nor does it prepare the student to be a bomber explosive technique disposal technician. The thrust of the instruction introduces trainees to commercially available materials and home laboratory techniques and the manufacture of explosives and incisions, different types of explosive techniques and booby traps and their construction and use by terrorists are demonstrated. And again, all these classes were taught at a Border Patrol facility. And while the main instructors were CIA agents, it was not just the convenient location that made the agency use Los Fresnos. The Border Patrol had always had within it the seeds of a national secret police force. Decades before, CBP agents were operating in unmarked snatch vans on the streets of Portland. And it was Customs and Border Patrol who was doing, doing that. They helped to train foreign police to do the exact same thing and much worse besides. So that's fun. I keep like, wanting to say, like, ah, what a fun thing. What a. Because I don't know what else to say. It's just like this, right, Kind of litany of horrors that we've all just kind of blithely funded our entire lives. Even though a great deal of information exists on how bad this agency has always been. Because the only reason real, if you actually like, get into it as we are today, the only real conclusion is that like, oh, maybe when you have people whose job it is to police the border, they're just going to be the worst people. And maybe you shouldn't police the border at all because this happened.

[Caitlin Durante]

But borders are completely arbitrary and mean nothing. And why have we decided that they. That crossing them is a crime?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, it's bad. And the kind of people who decide that, like, they want to make their whole lives about punishing desperate people for the quote unquote crime of crossing a border are monsters. And when you start giving them guns and power, they use it to enable genocides and political oppression abroad, and then inevitably do so back to at home, which is what's happening now. So when it comes to government agencies that Americans, particularly liberals, rage against, Customs and Border Patrol has spent most of its history kind of sliding under the mainstream radar. But liberals who only started paying attention to the agency after Trump took office might be surprised to know that NYT Report or New York Times reporter John Crudson won a Pulitzer Prize in 1980 for a series of articles about the Border Patrol whose titles would not look at all out of place in 2020. Titles like Border Patrol Sweeps of Illegal Aliens Leave Scores of Children in Jails. That sounds a little familiar, the Intercept, summarizing his work notes. Patrollers, he reported, regularly engaged in beatings, murder, torture and rape, including the rape of girls as young as 12. Some patrollers ran their own in house outlaw vigilante groups. Others maintained ties with groups like the Klan. Border Patrol agents also used the children of migrants, either as bait or as a pressure tactic to force confession when coming upon a family. Agents tried to apprehend the youngest member first with the idea that relatives would give themselves up so as not to be separated. It may sound cruel, one patroller said, but it often worked. Separating migrant families was not official government policy in the years Crudson was reporting on abuses. But left to their own devices, Border Patrol agents regularly took children from parents threatening that they would be separated forever unless one of them confessed that they had entered the country illegally legally. Mothers, especially, an agent said, would always break once a confession was extracted. Children might be placed in foster care or left to languish in federal jails. Others were released into Mexico alone, far from their homes, forced to survive, according to public defenders, by garbage can scrounging, living on rooftops and whatever. 10 year old Sylvia Alvarado, separated from her grandmother as they crossed into Texas, was kept in a small cinder block cell for more than three months. In California, 13 year old Julia Perez, threatened with being arrested and denied food, broke down and told her investigator that she was Mexican even though she was a U.S. citizen. The border Patrol released Perez into Mexico with no money or way to contact her US Family. Such cruelties weren't one offs, but part of a pattern encouraged and committed by officers up the chain of command. The violence was both gratuitive and systemic, including stress techniques later associated with the war in Iraq.

[Dylan]

I mean, wow, wow.

[Caitlin Durante]

What kind of Truly inhuman monster. Do you have to be to join the use. To be. Yes. And more specifically, to use children as bait or to like snatch them first as. Just like. I can't even form a sentence that. That is.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's not great.

[Dylan]

I mean, the sentence that, that you said, like I got teary eyed with the. The mother. The mothers broke first or what? Yeah, that was.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Dylan]

Horrible.

[Robert Evans]

No, it's. I don't know. You know, when I talk about how this all actually makes me feel, there's no way to do that without repeatedly urging other people to commit federal crimes up to and including assault and murder. So I'm just like gonna stop right there and continue talking about the Border Patrol instead. Um, cuz we shouldn't do that on a podcast. One tactic the Border Patrol came to adore was the locking of migrants in freezing cold rooms called hillieras or ice boxes. This goes back at least to the 1980s. According to Crudson, agents would tell prisoners in this place, you have no rights. Since these people had committed no crime beyond crossing a line of in the dirt, their detention served no real purpose beyond cruelty. Cruelty was the point. Border Patrol agents throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s were repeatedly documented torturing migrants. A popular method was handcuffing them to squad cars and then making them run alongside the video as it half dragged them to the border. Outright murder was common as well. One patrol agent told Crudson that agents commonly pushed illegals off cliffs so it would look like an accident. Much of the agency's behavior was indistinguishable from that of a straight up gift gang. Agents with ins, Border Patrol's parent agency at the time, were caught trading Mexican women to the Los Angeles Rams in exchange for season tickets. What? Yeah. That's the thing that happened. Yeah.

[Caitlin Durante]

I can't.

[Robert Evans]

Brave men and women of the Border Patrol wearing the green.

[Dylan]

Oh my God, it's time for an ad break. So that I can go vomit.

[Caitlin Durante]

Vomit.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. You know who doesn't trade women for you?

[Dylan]

Can't even do it.

[Robert Evans]

Sports tickets.

[Dylan]

Vomit. It's an ad break. It's an ad break.

[Robert Evans]

Products and services. Wasn't that delicious?

[Caitlin Durante]

So good.

[Robert Evans]

Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist.

[Sophie]

I insisted first.

[Robert Evans]

Don't be silly. You people with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[Ad Voice 1]

No.

[Robert Evans]

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[Ad Voice 3]

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[Robert Evans]

Company.

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[Sophie]

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[Robert Evans]

And we're back. We're having a good time. So INS agents were also caught supplying Mexican prostitutes to congressmen and judges in exchange for political favors. Over time, the Border Patrol found ways to get over their long standing conflict with, with Texan ranchers. In numerous cases, they worked out deals with ranch owners whereby they would hold off on immigration raids until right before payday, giving ranchers the use of migrant bodies without the need to pay them. Border Patrol men got to hunt and fish for free on their ranches as payments. So this is kind of how they, they worked out that, that little set of disagreements, that little, the, the, the uprising in Texas that had been sparked by a lot of this.

[Caitlin Durante]

They would exploit the labor and then have an agreement with the Border Patrol and be like, okay, seize them on this day.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, so you don't have to pay them all.

[Caitlin Durante]

You don't have to pay. Oh my God.

[Robert Evans]

It's good. Yeah, Crudsen. That New York Times journalist even documented that one of the ranches Border Patrol worked out an arrangement with was owned by President Lyndon B. Johnson while he was president.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, holy shit.

[Robert Evans]

Good stuff. Between 1985 and 1990, federal agents gunned down 22 migrants just in the area around San Diego. The Intercept reports, quote, On April 18, 1986, for instance, patroller Edward Cole was beating 14 year old Eduardo Carrillo Estrada on the U.S. side of the border's chain link fence when he stopped and shot Eduardo's younger brother Humberto in the back. Humberto was standing on the other side of the fence. On Mexican soil, a court ruled that Cole, who had previous incidents of shooting through the fence at Mexicans, had reason to fear for his life from Humberto and used justifiable force. Such abuses persisted through the 1990s and 2000s. In 1993, the House subcommittee on International Law, Immigration and Refugees held hearings on Border Patrol abuse, and its transcript is a catalog of horrors. One former guard, Turney Hefner, at the INS detention center in Port Isabel, Texas, reported that a young Salvadoran girl was forced to perform personal duties like dancing the Lombada for INS officials. In 2011, Hefner published a memoir with more accusations of sexual abuse, abuse by, as Hefner writes, the INS brass. Roberto Martinez, who worked with the San Diego based U.S. mexico Border Program for the American Friends Service Committee, testified that human and civil rights violations by the Border Patrol run the gamut of abuses imaginable, from rape to murder. Agents regularly seized original birth certificates and green cards from Latino citizens, leaving the victim with the financial burden of having to go through a lengthy process of applying for a new doctor document. Rapes and sexual abuse in INS detention centers around the United States, Martinez said, seem to be escalating throughout the border region.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay, I have to talk through something here, so.

[Robert Evans]

Sure.

[Caitlin Durante]

In theory law enforcement is there to prevent crime, stop crime, find criminals, etc. We know that that's barely what they do. Right. But that's in theory the. The purpose of law enforcement. And so by, by extension border patrol, if it is for it, since it is for some reason illegal to, you know, cross a border undocumented or without the proper documentation, that is quote, a crime according to ridiculous standards. Right. And I also understand in theory the concept of like punishing things that are actual crime. That makes sense to me as long as it's done responsibly, which it never is. The idea of seeing crossing a border without the proper documentation and deciding that the punishment for that crime warrants things like human trafficking, murder, murder, sexual assault, all manner of other horrible, horrible, unmentionable things. Like where I just. It is the most disgusting thing.

[Robert Evans]

I think the problem here that you're having is in thinking that the goal, the purpose is ever to prevent crime, whereas the reality is the purpose is to. Is to protect. It's to protect whiteness.

[Caitlin Durante]

Exactly. Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it's to provide an outlet for fascists in this country to do horrible violence on people in a way that is rather than being disorganized and sort of being anti state and being something that like causes disorder, being violence that they are allowed to carry out, that, that enforces the kind of the state itself that backs up the existence of the state.

[Caitlin Durante]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Like you have all these tremendously violent people, right. And you can do a couple of things to them, but they're there. So either you try to like deal with them and de. Radicalize them and make them less dangerous, you kill them them or as we do, you give them guns and make them unaccountable and allow them to, to do horrible violence to large groups of people who have no political agency.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yes, that is exactly what it is. Like people who are like. Well, the general population thinks that, you know, being a member of a hate group like the KKK is bad. So I'm going to do the same exact things that, that the KKK does, but it's being masked as a government agency. Like basically this terror, terrorist organization, this hate group is protected and quote, justified because it is a government agency. Even though they're, they're committing the same heinous acts in the name of, under the guise of some kind of protection. But truly it's the, like you said, protection of whiteness and criminalizing being not white.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And that's the only way it's ever been, and that's the only way it ever will be as long as we have a border. And we consider there to be some sort of fundamental value in the sanctity of that border. Right. And that's good.

[Caitlin Durante]

I want to cry about it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's good to do that sometimes. Other times, it's good to continue reading a podcast script.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yes.

[Robert Evans]

Which I will now do.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay.

[Robert Evans]

Because this is how I deal with problems. This is the only way that I deal with problems, is by reading podcast scripts.

[Caitlin Durante]

I mean, informing the people helps.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. That's a way that you can describe. This is informing the people. I don't know. You know. In 1979, Maria Contreras, nine months pregnant, crossed back into the United States from Mexico legally. After shopping for food, Border Patrol agents found this suspicious, and they tortured her to try to get her to reveal information about undocumented migrants. She died under interrogation, leaving six children behind. This sort of thing happened all the time. You know, we have documentation about Maria Contreras case, but. But this is maybe even a daily matter, and it's something that continues to this day in dark and terrifying corners of the border where such things are not documented most of the time, but which we all pay for. Throughout all of this, the Border Patrol and INS were sort of the redheaded stepchild of federal agencies with law enforcement powers. They were barely funded because, if you can imagine this, illegal immigration was not something people cared about. So for most of this period, while all of the horrible things we've been talking about have been happening, happening, Border Patrol has basically no money and very few agents considering, like, what it's supposed to be watching. And it's purview. It's just kind of a place where we keep all of our most violent law enforcement officers, and they don't have the money to do much, but nobody's watching them, so they can carry out horrific acts of violence. And that's the Border Patrol and really INS too, for the most part. Yeah. Border states probably had, you know, not probably border states had debates on the matter of illegal immigration. It was certainly like, you know, a political issue in Texas and New Mexico and stuff, but random people in Duluth, random Americans in Duluth or, you know, Wichita or Bumblefuck, Montana or whatever, didn't really care about the border. Right. 80s and 90s, it was not a big vote getter for most of that period of time. Now, at the start of the Clinton administration, there were only about 4,000 Border Patrol agents watching both Canada And Mexico, which is not a lot, if you think about how big both of those borders borders are.

[Caitlin Durante]

They're many miles long.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, they're pretty big. In 1993, NAFTA became a thing, the North American Free Trade thingamajigger. And illegal immigration grew by leaps and bounds alongside right wing fear mongering about illegal immigration. The Border Patrol more than doubled in size by the turn of the millennium. So this is like the first thing that really leads to a massive surge in the Border Patrol is NAFTA becomes a thing, and suddenly a shitload more people are trying to cross the border. Border. Illegal immigration by the end of the 1990s is a major national political issue, and the Border Patrol more than doubles under Clinton. In the year 2000, our nation's peak year for illegal immigration, Border patrol agents apprehended 1.6 million people. This, though, was just a fraction of the total that got through. Border Patrol agents were unhappy about the fact that most undocumented migrants were still getting through the border and that the many rules that there were many rules in place to stop them from, you know, doing Operation Wetback type stuff and basically carrying out an ethnic cleansing to get rid of non white people from border areas. From an article in Politico, quote, quote, near the top of the Border Patrol's list of complaints was the policy known internally as CARP or catch, the Catch and release policy. By the end of The Clinton administration, 80% of people who were caught and released with a notice to appear at a deportation hearing never showed up at all court. But despite millions of border crossings, the Border Patrol had the financing in 2001 for just 60 detainees a day across the entire country. They could turn themselves in and have a high confidence that they wouldn't be returned to their home countries, required, recalls Michael Chertoff, who would go on to become President George W. Bush's second, second Secretary of Homeland Security. Mostly agents just asked border violators for their names and then did a cursory background check before returning them to Mexico or releasing them into the United States. United States. Sometimes they ran fingerprints, sometimes they didn't. In June 1999, agents captured one of the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives, a rapist and serial killer named Angel Maturino Resendez, AKA the Railway Killer, and unknowingly released him back into Mexico. Whereupon Resendez promptly sneaked back into the United States and murdered four more people before being apprehended by Texas Rangers. So the story of the Railway Killer was, of course, used to justify the need for More funding to the Border Patrol. What the whole story really illustrates is that even when the Border Patrol had occasional chances to actually protect Americans by apprehending people, they were as likely to fuck up as anything because most of them were shit ass incompetent in anything besides doing violence. So 911 happens. You remember 9 11?

[Caitlin Durante]

I remember.

[Robert Evans]

That's good. You're not supposed to forget it. Now 911 happens. And if you were alive and cognizant at the time, you might remember that basically everybody and their grandma was obsessed with the imminent possibility that Al Qaeda might drive a regiment of terrorist nuclear tanks or whatever across the Texas border. As someone who lived in Texas at the time, we were a bunch of people freaking out about how like terrorist hit squads were going to be making their way up through the border. Kids at my like suburban Texas high school were certain that Al Qaeda was going to be sending people to shoot up our school because like Plano, Texas was real high on Osama bin Laden's hit list.

[Caitlin Durante]

Wait, did they think they were going to like go to Mexico first and then cross the border? Is that what they.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it didn't, it didn't really scan a lot. I mean, I'll say this, I think that it's maybe not talked about enough the degree to which guys like John Milneus and movies like Red dawn prepared everybody to believe the bullshit the Bush administration said about how terrorists were going to be sneaking through the border. But like, yeah, whatever, it was very dumb. It was a very dumb time. But also like, you know, a bunch of guys had worked together to ram planes into the Pentagon and destroy two skyscrapers in New York City. People were willing to believe a lot of terrible things were possible. And because the border, you know, right wing pundits had been convincing everybody that the border was this dangerous and unmonitored place for so long. People were like, oh my God, of course the terrorists will try there. They never did, but you know, they still might any day now, Caitlyn, any day Al Qaeda's gotta finally get a squad up there. Nobody will notice all them of, of the anyway, whatever. So yeah, Tom Ridge, the former governor of Pennsylvania was made President Bush's Homeland security czar. Now this was before the Department of Homeland Security existed. That came about in like November of 2002. But as soon as like 911 is a thing, Bush is like, ah, we gotta have somebody whose job is to think about safety for the country. Which like there were already a bunch of people doing that and it hadn't helped. And but anyway, whatever. So Tom Ridge is like, is made the czar of Homeland Security and he made border control one of his priorities. He realized pretty much immediately that the Border Patrol was going to be an issue for him. Robert Bonner, who worked with Ridge and later became the first head of Customs and Border Patrol, told Politico, quote, within the INS structure, they were the poor stepchild. That was how most of INS viewed them at every level. They weren't appreciated and weren't viewed with respect. And that created this defensiveness and insularity within the Border Patrol. There was a lot of debate about what to do with the organization and whether or not to just take all the different groups that handled various border relationships, related things and merge them into one border agency. But that would have meant several different cabinet secretaries would have each lost tiny amounts of power and money. Because, you know, you have this group that's like, you know, your job is to look for war criminals who might have like accidentally gotten citizenship or green cards. You have this other group whose job is to like, you know, handle customs enforcement. You know, you have the Border Patrol. You have like the group that's job is to go around and look for people who might be violating immigration law. You have all these different groups that are like under different sort of people's protocols purview. And putting them all in one, like organized Border Patrol that does everything would have meant that all of the different cabinet secretaries lost a little bit of money in power. So they all vetoed that idea in unison. No, no, no, no, fuck that shit. Instead, the decision was made to dissolve INS and put the Border Patrol under the purview of the new Customs and Border Patrol, which would itself be part of the brand new Department of Homeland Security. The final nail in INS's coffin was the fact that the agency had approved visas for two of the nine hijackers after 9 11. So this is kind of what like, yeah, that's the, that's the wrong time to do that. Somebody probably should have like gotten on the phone immediately after that and been like, hey, we should run these names, like, just make sure we're not going to embarrass everybody. But they did. And when the news kind of came out that INS had approved visas for two of the people who had just carried out the biggest terrorist attack in the US history, the Bush administration was really not happy with ins. And that kind of, that kind of spelled their doom. And in fact, when they dissolved the agency, no one from the White House even thought to call the INS commissioner and Tell him I'm going to quote again from Politico's article. INS was such a broken bureaucracy that it would be the single agency in the entire US government to receive the ultimate death penalty. After 9 11, in the wide ranging bureaucratic reorganization that led to the Department of Homeland Security, INS was completely disbanded, its responsibilities removed from the Justice Department and its duties reassigned among three new DHS agencies. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ice, Citizenship and Immigration Services, CIS and Customs and Border Protection, CBP and the newly created DHS would be a reality in less than than a year. So that's the situation now. The man tasked with creating the CBP was Robert Bonner, a federal judge and a former DEA head. His first and most pressing decision was whether or not to change the agency's famous green uniform, which is obviously more important than like the rapes, the trading of women for sports tickets and stuff.

[Caitlin Durante]

Why is that the first order of business? Why are there any orders?

[Robert Evans]

Look, Caitlin, these brave men of the Border Patrol who only occasionally commit mass rape and sex trafficking, that includes sex trafficking of 12 year olds and only occasionally torture pregnant women to death, those brave men have a lot of pride in their uniform and they want to know that that uniform's not going to change.

[Caitlin Durante]

You know, they have to be presentable. That's the most important thing.

[Robert Evans]

That's the most important thing. Most important thing is that they get to still feel like they're part the of, of the, part of the old Border Patrol that they love. You know, the old Border Patrol that lets them torture all those people and throw kids into, into dank freezing cells for months on end, many of whom are actually American citizens. That's just how it's, it's important, you know. Yeah. So from Politico, quote, weeks before the new agency officially launched on March 1, 2003, he invited all of the Border Patrol's 20 sector chiefs to Washington to discuss the trans transition. They all arrived in D.C. in full dress green uniforms, shoes polished, brass buttons gleaming. As Bonar walked into the room, everyone stood and snapped to attention. The new commissioner began his remarks simply, the Border Patrol will remain green. The room erupted in applause and cheers. They're proud of the green. They were very proud of that uniform. Bonner recalls today. They were concerned about losing that identity.

[Caitlin Durante]

Who cares about your green uniform?

[Robert Evans]

Oh, the Border Patrol cares.

[Caitlin Durante]

Fuck off.

[Dylan]

And fucking losers.

[Robert Evans]

See, this is why as, as I've always said. And so if you can back me up on this, Caitlyn, you would be a terrible head of the Border Patrol.

[Caitlin Durante]

Because I Don't respect the green.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly.

[Dylan]

Well, I don't even understand how I don't wear green, but it's because I hate the Celtics, so I couldn't have a job either.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, yeah, see, so you'd be bad at this too, because as a Border patrol agent, you should be trading kidnapped women to the Celtics in exchange for season tickets.

[Dylan]

Oh, my God. Can we just go to an ad break?

[Caitlin Durante]

Jesus Christ.

[Robert Evans]

Speaking of the Celtics, you know who else supports this podcast?

[Dylan]

Hey, hey, hey. You know who else is hor. No, no, no.

[Caitlin Durante]

And certainly bruises.

[Robert Evans]

And we're back.

[Dylan]

That. That Celtics dig. I just would like to. To denote that I will keep doing that. And also high prop.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's that I don't understand who the Celtics are. Celtics. I don't understand any of this. This is all Sophie's fault. If you love that team. If you love that team, send your death threats to Sophie.

[Dylan]

Yeah, if you love that. If you love that team, just understand. Follow me, because we will never be friends.

[Robert Evans]

Also because I don't know who they are.

[Dylan]

Once again, high prop soccer. If you.

[Caitlin Durante]

If you don't give a shit about any sports teams in existence.

[Robert Evans]

Tennis, maybe.

[Caitlin Durante]

Follow me. Yeah, except for soccer. Soccer is allowed. Soccer is cool. Soccer is the only sport.

[Robert Evans]

Soccer is definitely not allowed.

[Caitlin Durante]

What?

[Robert Evans]

Soccer.

[Dylan]

Soccer is allowed.

[Robert Evans]

There is. There is one sport allowed in my ideal world, and it's that. That game they play in Afghanistan where they all ride around on horseback with a goat head and people get killed sometimes. They. It's. It's. Yeah, that's a good thing.

[Dylan]

You just fully Roberted this entire thing. Anyways, follow Caitlin on Twitter and Instagram. She's a great follow. Continue with your podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Go to Afghanistan to play sports. Anyway, they were not particularly concerned the Border Patrol with making any changes to reduce the number of migrants killed by Border patrol agents. Since 2003, Border Patrol agents have killed at least 97 people. Six of those people were children. They've also taken repeated action to stop other people from saving lives. As summers grew more brutal, more and more migrants started dying in the sonoran Desert. In 2004, the Faith Based organization no More Deaths started leaving gallon jugs of water out near common footpaths in the desperate hope that it might stop a few people from dying horribly in the desert. They soon noticed that their water bottles were being slashed open. No More Deaths set up hidden cameras. They found, in every case, Border Patrol agents destroying water caches almost with visible glass glee. You can see one of these videos for yourself in the PBS documentary Need to Know. Salon.com's description is quite good. Quote Three Border Patrol agents, two men and a woman are walking along a migrant trail and approaching a half, half a dozen one gallon jugs of water. The female agent stops in front of the containers and begins to kick them with force down a ravine. The bottles crash against rocks bursting open. She's smiling. One of the agents watching her smiles as well, seeming to take real pleasure in the of sense spectacle. He says something under his breath and the word tonk is clearly audible. Do you know what tonk means?

[Caitlin Durante]

I don't.

[Robert Evans]

So we talked about wetback in episode one and how that was the Border Patrol's kind of old term for particularly Mexican immigrants because the river they have to cross. Tonk is the new slur that the Border Patrol uses for undocumented immigrants. And it comes from the sound that a flashlight makes when you hit someone in the head.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh my God.

[Robert Evans]

You'll hear this if in any article you read about the modern Border Patrol that they the word tonk is like their standard term for migrants. And it's a term because of what it sounds like when they beat these people with flashlights.

[Caitlin Durante]

Well, okay, let me just process that.

[Robert Evans]

New slurs were, of course, of course, far from the only changes to hit Border Patrol during the Bush years. By the time President Obama took office, the Border Patrol had gone from an underfunded force of about 9,000 to a 21,000 person army, the largest federal law enforcement agency in the country. There are actual armies smaller than the Border Patrol and less well equipped. They're the largest law enforcement agency in the country now, so that's good. All those new officers had to be trained up quick. And this did not leave time for rigorous vetting and background checking that other federal agents go through. Border Patrol agents today still have the least average years of experience of any federal law enforcement agency. They also have the lowest standards for new recruits. This may have something to do with the fact that Border Patrol agents are involved in more fatal shootings than any other federal law enforcement agency. Yeah, you know, probably it's not like any federal law enforcement agency is good about giving us numbers about how many people they shoot, but probably they kill more than any of the others.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay, I believe it.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. One senior DHS official even admitted to Politico. Quote, the agency has created a culture that says, if you throw a rock at me, you're going to get shot. Between 2005 and 2012, roughly one CBP officer was arrested for misconduct every single day during President Obama's first term. Things got so bad that DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano ordered the CBP to change its institutional definition of the word corruption so they wouldn't have to admit to as many problems when they were questioned by Congress about all of the murders. It's. Yeah, wow, again, under Obama. Under Obama, it's pretty much impossible.

[Caitlin Durante]

No, I just.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, like we're not even really going to get into the Trump years in this two parter because that's like a whole nother thing to start talking about. Yeah. Like most of this that we're talking about today, I mean It's Reagan, Bush Sr. Clinton, Bush Jr. And Obama. Right. Those are the guys that this is happening under. Those are the guys funding this. Right. Enthusiastically. All of the politicians that everybody thinks are fine now because Trump is such a, such a dick. Anyway, yeah, it's pretty much impossible to exaggerate how bad Border Patrol is and was like, I'm gonna guess that most of our listeners come from a broad position that like feds are not good, which is fine and accurate. But even among that company, like, even if you're like oh, federal agents are pretty much all bad, it's shocking how bad the agents of the CBP are. Like, it's like it's, it's staggering how shitty they, they particularly become in the aughts. And I'm going to quote from Salon again. There was my. There was the Miami CBP officer who used his law enforcement status to bypass airport security and personally smuggle cocaine and heroin into my Miami. There was the green uniformed agent in Yuma, Arizona who was caught smuggling 700 pounds of marijuana across the border in his green and white Border patrol truck. The brand new 26 year old border patrol agent who joined a drug smuggling operation to distribute more than 1,000 kilograms of marijuana in Del Rio, Texas. The 32 year old border Patrol agent whose wife would tip him off on which buses filled with illegal immigrants to let through his checkpoint on I35 in Laredo, Texas. Some cases were more obvious than others. Like the new Border Patrol agent who took an unusual interest in maps of the agency's sensors along the border and was arrested just seven months into the job after he sold smugglers those maps for $5,500. In November 2007, CBP official Thomas Winkowski wrote an agency wide memo citing numerous incidents, or as he called them, disturbing events, saying that the leadership was concerned about the increase in the number of employee arrests. The memo, never made public but obtained by the Miami Herald, reminded officers and agents it is our responsibility to uphold the. The laws, not break the law. Now, right around that time, internal CBP investigations uncovered that the agency had, in dozens of cases, hired members of Mexican drug cartels and gangs like MS.13 to be agents. They'd also hired at least one serial killer, Juan David Ortiz, who murdered five women during his time as an intelligence analyst for the agency. He is also suspected of kidnapping a woman. We'll never really know the exact extent of. Of his crimes. And in that regard, he fits in with another Border Patrol veteran, Esteban Manzanares. It is possible that Esteban Manzanares was not a serial killer. He hasn't been convicted of any murders, but he was caught abducting three migrant women. A mother and her two teenage daughters. He attempted to bury one alive and he raped another. And yeah, earlier this year, an appeals court ruled that his victims could not sue the federal government, as Manzanares was not acting in his official capacity as a Border Patrol Patrol agent when he assaulted those women. Sure, he arrested them during his duties as a Border Patrol agent, and he took them to a Border Patrol processing facility before taking them to a gated compound to assault them, but he wasn't. He wasn't acting as a Border Patrol agent.

[Caitlin Durante]

Oh, wow. The mental gymnastics people do.

[Robert Evans]

Just legal ones.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah. Okay.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Now, the good news is that a few bad apples like Manzanares and Ortiz and also all of the thousands of agents who got arrested on a nearly daily basis for seven straight years didn't stop the Orchard from detaining more migrants than ever before. During the Obama years, DHS deported more undocumented migrants than ever. 400,000 a year. As President Obama said in 2011, the presence of so many illegal immigrants make a mockery of all those who are trying to immigrate legally now. Yeah, that's good.

[Caitlin Durante]

Obama.

[Robert Evans]

It's pretty. Pretty cool. It's pretty cool. What a problem this was. Yeah. So. And again, all of these illegal immigrants make a mockery of everyone trying to immigrate illegally. The data shows that during this period, this, like, fucking seven year period, an average of one Border Patrol agent per day almost was arrested for serious crimes, like, ranging from like, rape and sexual assault to attempted murder to, you know, drug smuggling, like, every day. A Border Patrol agent basically was getting arrested during the years. But that's not. That's not making a mockery of like.

[Caitlin Durante]

Right, right.

[Robert Evans]

Law enforcement or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Now, there were a number of reasons why things got so bad in Border Patrol. We've talked about some of them just Sort of like the inherent racist nature of the existence of the Border Patrol. But there are also just sort of some reasons that you would describe as kind of broadly bureaucratic. There were a bunch of bureaucratic reasons why it happened too, right? Kind of outside of the inherent, you know, problems of policing a border. For one point, like they were increasing the size of the Border Patrol faster than any law enforcement agency had ever been increased. And that meant bringing in a shitload of people who weren't qualified. They had all of this money and they did not have enough people who could actually responsibly do the job. So they were just throwing people in chairs and giving them guns and bags, badges. Now, the issues of hiring a bunch of people for an agency based on assaulting non white people and giving them, you know, broad powers were compounded by structural problems within the, like the way the Border Patrol was set up. Most Border Patrol men are agents. This differs from special agents, which are the cool dudes like Fox Mulder that everyone who becomes a Fed wants to be. Special agents can both arrest people and investigate crimes. Agents only have arresting powers. They cannot investigate crimes. Now because CBP is seen as the shittiest federal law enforcement agency, the dumping ground for all of the violent assholes, our government doesn't like to make them special agents. According to Politico. Quote, in many ways, the difference between the two is CBP's original sin. A seemingly minor technical distinction made in the harried heat of DHS creation addition decade ago that would allow hundreds of cases of corruption in CBP's Office of Field Operations and use of force abuses in the Border Patrol to fester for years. The problem was that no one at CBP received what's known as 1811 authority. When DHS was set up, ICE was given exclusive 1811 authority to conduct investigations in the border region. CBP was only given so called 1801 authority, a lesser classification that allowed Border Patrol agents and customers officers to make arrests and enforce federal law, but not investigate. They could be cops, but not detectives. This didn't particularly matter in the daily performance of CBP's duties. The borders were patrolled, the ports of entry watched. Except that CBP was legally prohibited from policing its own workforce.

[Caitlin Durante]

Hmm.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. And it's again, one of these things. Every single person who's ever been involved in running the CBP agrees, like, yeah, this is a real big, big problem because it means that they're even less accountable than other law enforcement agencies because.

[Caitlin Durante]

Like, those ones are barely accountable and.

[Robert Evans]

Those ones are barely Accountable. But, like, even when Border Patrol agents commit a crime that other Border Patrol agents think is horrible, like, they can't investigate. Wow.

[Caitlin Durante]

No accountability. Holy crap.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. Other law enforcement agents look at Border Patrol and go, jesus Christ, those people are unaccountable when they commit acts of unspeakable violence.

[Caitlin Durante]

That is bleak.

[Robert Evans]

It's bleak.

[Caitlin Durante]

Very bleak.

[Robert Evans]

By 2012, the problems in Border Patrol were obvious enough that they spilled out into the public sphere. The Arizona Republic conducted an investigation which showed that agents had killed at least 42 people, 13 of whom were citizens since 2005. In none of these killings was any agent known to have faced consequences of any kind. Congressional pressure forced the agency to submit to an investigation by the Police Executive Research forum, a Washington, D.C. based law enforcement think tank. The PERF investigated 67 cases of lethal force by Border Patrol agents. They found, among other things, cases of agents firing at fleeing vehicles. The report concluded too many cases do not appear to meet the test of objective reasonableness with regard to the use of deadly force. The PERF report advised, among other things, that agents should not use lethal force on unarmed drivers, drivers or rock throwers. The agency rejected this out of hand, with the head of Border Patrol saying in an interview, I've known agents who have almost died from being rocked along the border, and I think it was completely ridiculous that they wanted that prohibition. I should note here that no Border Patrol officer has ever been killed by Iraq, and I can't really find evidence of one being seriously injured by Iraq either. What I can find is that in 2014, CBP leadership estimated a full 20% of their force was corrupt. Attempts at reform were made in the last two years of the Obama administration. And in 2016, it looked like things might finally be headed in a less murdery direction. But then Donald Trump became the president, and here we are, a presidential administration filled with literal Nazis was handed a vast, heavily armed force of sociopaths and rapists who just spent the last two years being told that they had to rape and murder less. And then all of a sudden, they were told, whatever you want to do is fine. Just get these brown people out of the United States. United States. And that's kind of where things stand today, with the Border Patrol as sort of the turning into the official armed wing of the. The racist right, with these CBP and BORTAC units set up using Border Patrol men being sent into American cities to police dissent because they're the most dedicated and least accountable and most violent law enforcement officers the country has. And, yeah, there's a lot more I could and should get into about where things are at the moment with Border Patrol, but this is. It took me this long just to get us up to the fucking Trump administration.

[Caitlin Durante]

Right? And yeah, we're not even at the, you know, the whole. The frenzy around Build the Wall and just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Guess that's another podcast.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it's another kind of podcast. And I guess if I'm gonna lead, leave somewhere or in this somewhere, I probably. It would probably be good to end by talking again about Harlan Carter for just a little bit. Do you remember Harlan Carter? He was the former Border Patrol head who was in charge during Operation Wetback and who was a convicted murderer. In 1931, he shot a Mexican boy in the. The chest. So, yeah, the young Mexican boy that he murdered was named Raymond Cassiano. And there's actually a really good song about the Border Patrol and about Raymond Cassiano by a band I quite like called Drive By Truckers. And there's a line in it about Harlan Carter, you know, this former head of the Border Patrol who goes on, by the way, to become the head of the NRA and is like one of the guys in charge of the NRA when it turns into the nra we all know today from the organization that was like, oh, people should learn how to shoot accurately so they can hunt deer. Right? Like, the NRA used to just be like a normal, pretty normal thing. And then it turns into this crazy thing that it is today, this quasi military, or not quasi military, but like this explicitly fascist organization urging political violence. Anyway, Harlan Carter is the guy behind.

[Dylan]

That, too, so not somebody we'd want to get a drink with.

[Robert Evans]

Not somebody you'd want to get a drink with. And there's. There's a couple lines about him in this song, Raymond Casiano, which is named after. After the guy that Harlan Carter killed. And it's a song really about not just Harlan Carter, but about the kind of men who become Border Patrol agents. He had the makings of a leader of a certain kind of men who need to feel the worlds against him out to get him if it can Men whose trigger pull their fingers of men who'd rather fight than win United in a revolution like in mind and like in skin.

[Caitlin Durante]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, It's a good song.

[Caitlin Durante]

I'll give it a listen.

[Robert Evans]

So, Caitlyn, you want to. You want to plug your pluggables?

[Caitlin Durante]

Sure. Well, thank you for enlightening me with this information. A lot of it I did not know, so I appreciate now knowing, depressing and upsetting though it may be. So it's good to be informed. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram aitlyndarante and you can check out my podcast on this network called the Bechtel Cast. So you know that little conversation that Sophie and I had at the beginning was a reference to that we talk about the representation of women in film. And yeah, check, check, check it all out.

[Robert Evans]

Check it all out.

[Dylan]

And you can follow Robert on Twitter at I write.

[Caitlin Durante]

Okay.

[Dylan]

You can follow this podcast on Twitter and Instagram at Bastards Pod. You can now email us at behind the Bastards heartmedia.com and you can buy merch at our t public store. You can also buy merch from Caitlyn and Jamie's tea Public store, which has some of my apple. Absolute favorite items in the entire planet.

[Caitlin Durante]

Feminist icon.

[Dylan]

How's that for a plug?

[Caitlin Durante]

Great, thank you, Sophie.

[Robert Evans]

Feminist icons. You know who else is a feminist icon?

[Caitlin Durante]

I can't wait to see who you say. Oh, dear.

[Robert Evans]

Caitlyn Durante. Oh, thank you.

[Dylan]

All right, this ended very, very, very, very, very warmly.

[Caitlin Durante]

Thank you.

[Dylan]

That's the. That's the episode. Bye, guys.

[Robert Evans]

That is the motherfucking episode.

[Dylan]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com behind the Bastards.

[Sophie]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves. Loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition mission is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent, where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] Saks off 5th up to 70% off every day. Summer is in full swing here at Saks off fifth with so many exciting trends to try, from matching sets and floral dresses to wide leg jeans and chic accessories. Find all of this season's must have styles. Plus shop new designer arrivals with weekly. Find Gucci, Valentino, Garavani, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more. Head to saksaw fifth.com or a Saks Off 5th store near you for up to 70% off every day.

[Robert Evans]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas and I'm Matt Rogers. And we're the hosts of Las Culturistas. It's Pride Month, and you know what that means. Friendship Parties. Dancing. Correct. And do you know what the perfect thing to bring to any Pride event is? But when we talked about this, I'm not a thing. Oh, not you. I meant Casamigos. Okay, Chic. And honestly, the only other correct. Answ. Casamigos Margarita during Pride. Now that's a sleigh. Ah, Casamigos. Anything is a sleigh. Cause anything goes with my Casamigos? Anything goes with my Casamigos. Bo, you're a poet. Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila. 40% alcohol by volume. I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the wealthbreak podcast, a real conversation about finance. Let's be honest. Building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone. I feel like sometimes being broke is.

[Sophie]

A cycle and that we might have.

[Robert Evans]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stories. What happens when it doesn't go right? How do you cope with it? Because wealth isn't just about money. It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartradio app.

[Sophie]

This is an iHeart podcast.