How ICE Is Targeting Students for Deportation

Summary

Behind the Bastards: How ICE Is Targeting Students for Deportation

Episode Release Date: April 4, 2025
Host/Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

In the gripping episode titled "How ICE Is Targeting Students for Deportation," hosts Garrison Davis and James Stout delve deep into the troubling trend of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) focusing on students, scholars, and professors in the United States for deportation. This comprehensive summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn throughout the episode.

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1. Introduction to ICE's Targeting of Academic Community

Garrison Davis sets the stage by introducing the main topic:

Garrison Davis [00:32]: "Today I'm joined by James Stout. This episode is going to be about ICE actions against students, scholars, and professors around the country and this wave of deportations targeting people engaged in pro Palestine speech protest, as well as some individuals who have been roped up in this new wave of deportations who have not publicly engaged in Palestine activism."

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2. Case Study: Mahmoud Khalil

The episode begins with the alarming case of Mahmoud Khalil, a graduate student at Columbia University, illustrating ICE's aggressive tactics.

• Incident Details:
  • Date: Evening of Saturday, March 8th.
  • Event: Plainclothes ICE agents followed Khalil and his wife into their campus apartment building.
  • Arrest: Khalil was detained for unclear reasons, and his pregnant wife, an American citizen, was threatened with arrest.

Garrison Davis [00:32 - 02:03]: Describes how ICE agents used Khalil's green card against him, despite his status as a permanent resident, citing a rarely used Cold War-era immigration statute.

• Legal Implications:
  • Statute Used: Allows the Secretary of State to deport non-citizens if deemed a "potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequence."

James Stout [01:40]: "The Trump administration has been very, very good at finding very obscure pieces of law that it can wield against migrants."

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3. Broader Pattern of Targeting

The discussion expands to include other affected individuals, highlighting the systematic nature of these deportations.

• Rajani Srinivasan:
  • Status: PhD student at Columbia University.
  • Incident: ICE agents attempted to arrest her following a visa revocation notice.
  • Outcome: Forced to flee to Canada after the second visit by ICE agents.

James Stout [05:26]: "Self deportation is definitely one of their goals. They talked about it before Trump even came into power."

• Yung Sao Chung:
  • Status: Permanent resident from South Korea.
  • Incident: Received misleading communications leading to ICE's revocation of her residency.
  • Outcome: Went into hiding and is currently fighting deportation in court.

Garrison Davis [02:03 - 06:40]: Details ICE's persistent efforts despite Chung's permanent residency status.

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4. Use of Doxing Organizations

The episode sheds light on how non-governmental organizations like Canary Mission and Batar collaborate with ICE to identify targets.

• Canary Mission:
  • Role: Collects and publishes information on individuals accused of anti-Israel activism.
  • Examples: Profiles Mahmoud Khalil and Rumeza Ozturk, leading to their arrests.

Garrison Davis [27:53]: "Canary Mission has been collecting and publishing personal information of people they accuse of promoting hatred of the United States, Israel, and Jews."

• Batar:
  • Description: A far-right, pro-Israel doxing group listed as an extremist organization by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).
  • Impact: Provides ICE with lists of individuals, including students like Mamadou Tal and Mahmoud Khalil, for deportation.

Garrison Davis [29:20]: "Batar says that they have given the Trump administration a deportation list of thousands of names."

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5. Social Media Screening and Enhanced Vetting

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the State Department's new directives to intensify social media vetting of visa applicants.

• Directive Details:
  • Title: Enhanced Screening and Social Media Vetting for Visa Applicants.
  • Scope: Applies to FMNJ visas, including student exchange, academic, and vocational visas.
  • Criteria: Officers must search for evidence of advocating or supporting terrorist activities or hostile conduct towards U.S. citizens.

Garrison Davis [17:49]: "The directive cites two executive orders from Trump... protecting the United States from foreign terrorists and other national security and public safety threats."

• Implications:
  • Broad Definitions: Terms like "anti-American ideologies" are defined so broadly that any criticism of U.S. institutions could be grounds for denial or revocation.

James Stout [19:01]: "Yes, the anti-American ideologies, again, is just vastly broad, right?"

• Technological Integration: Possible use of AI to conduct exhaustive social media searches on applicants.

Garrison Davis [19:19]: "They are probably going to use some AI system for this, as they've already kind of used more primitive versions."

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6. University Responses and Student Advisories

Universities are depicted as frontline responders, attempting to protect their international students amid escalating ICE actions.

• Southern Illinois University:
  • Action: Issued advisories to students to carry immigration documents and exercise caution on social media.

Garrison Davis [35:36]: "The school's Director of International Student and Scholar Services sent an email advising students to carry photocopies of immigration documents."

• University of Minnesota and Southern Illinois University:
  • Situations: Both faced ICE raids without prior knowledge or collaboration, leading to fear and uncertainty among student bodies.

James Stout [35:32]: "And they are providing like legal resources to these students, but they're essentially saying like you shouldn't post anything or do any protests because then ICE might come kidnap you."

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7. Ongoing Legal Battles and Judicial Interventions

Several deportation cases are highlighted where courts have intervened to halt ICE's aggressive actions.

• Yung Sao Chung:
  • Court Action: Federal judge granted a temporary restraining order preventing her deportation.

Garrison Davis [07:20]: "A federal judge granted a temporary restraining order halting efforts from ICE to detain or relocate Chung."

• Mamadou Tal:
  • Status: Despite legal challenges, Tal opted for self-deportation, expressing distrust in the judicial system's ability to protect him.

Garrison Davis [13:53]: "Tal released a statement... I have lost faith that a favorable ruling from the courts would guarantee my personal safety and ability to express my beliefs."

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8. The Role of Government Officials and Public Statements

The episode critically examines the rhetoric used by government officials to justify deportations.

• Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem:
  • Statement: Praised alleged self-deportations as "self deportation."

Garrison Davis [05:26]: "Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem praised this as, quote, 'self deportation.'"

• Secretary of State Mark Rubio:
  • Comments: Aggressively stated the revocation of over 300 student visas, labeling them as "lunatics."

Garrison Davis [15:17]: "Mark Rubio claimed that he has revoked over 300 student visas so far... 'Every time I find one of these lunatics, I take away their visas.'"

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9. Critical Analysis and Host Insights

Throughout the episode, hosts provide critical perspectives on the constitutionality and ethical implications of ICE's actions.

• Constitutional Concerns:
  • Freedom of Speech: Targeting individuals for pro-Palestine activism infringes upon First Amendment rights.

James Stout [43:09]: "Like, this is what that is. If this was happening in China, this was happening in Russia, in other countries, people would be very, very quick to call out."

• Political Motives:
  • Exacerbation by Trump Administration: Policy directions under Trump have intensified these deportation efforts, leveraging public perception against Palestine activism.

Garrison Davis [38:54]: "Trump administration is continuing to correlate any expression of sympathy or solidarity with Palestine as explicit support for Hamas."

• Impact on Community:
  • Ripple Effect: The targeting of specific groups fosters a climate of fear, suppressing legitimate academic and social discourse.

James Stout [42:28]: "We do not necessarily agree with the framing of every single sentence that they have said... We are defending their right to engage in constitutionally protected speech."

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10. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Davis and Stout emphasize the broader implications of these deportation tactics on American values and civil liberties.

Garrison Davis [43:04]: "These tactics have been used for years to broadly smear pro-Palestine activists while also hurting anti Zionist Jews."

James Stout [43:15]: "This hurts every single one of us, right? Everyone's right to freedom of speech is challenged when someone's right to freedom of speech is challenged."

The hosts underscore the importance of vigilance and advocacy to protect the rights of non-citizens and uphold constitutional protections against governmental overreach.

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Notable Quotes

• Garrison Davis [00:32]: "This wave of deportations targeting people engaged in pro Palestine speech protest... has not publicly engaged in Palestine activism."

• James Stout [19:01]: "Yeah, the anti-American ideologies, again, is just vastly broad, right?"

• Garrison Davis [27:53]: "Canary Mission has been collecting and publishing personal information of people they accuse of promoting hatred of the United States, Israel, and Jews."

• James Stout [43:15]: "Everyone's right to freedom of speech is challenged when someone's right to freedom of speech is challenged."

---

Final Thoughts:
"How ICE Is Targeting Students for Deportation" serves as a poignant exploration of the intersection between immigration enforcement, academic freedom, and civil liberties. By presenting detailed case studies and exposing the collaboration between government agencies and extremist doxing groups, the episode paints a concerning picture of systemic suppression of dissent and the erosion of constitutional rights. Davis and Stout urge listeners to remain informed and advocate against such overreaches, emphasizing that the fight for freedom of speech is a collective responsibility.

Transcript

[Jeremy Scott]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.

[Gilbert King]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[Gilbert King]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Jeremy Scott]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Garrison Davis]

Cool Zone Media. This is it. Could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by James Stout. This episode is going to be about ICE actions against students, scholars and professors around the country and this wave of deportations targeting people engaged in pro Palestine speech protest, as well as some individuals who have been roped up in this new wave of deportations who have not publicly engaged in Palestine activism. Let's start on the evening of Saturday, March 8th. Mahmoud Khalil and his wife were returning home from dinner when plainclothes ICE agents followed the couple into their campus apartment building at Columbia University. A man wearing a Marvel graphic tee arrested Khalil for then unknown reasons and threatened to arrest Khalil's wife, who is eight months pregnant and an American citizen. When Khalil's wife brought his green card from their apartment, she says one of the ICE agents placed a phone call informing someone Khalil was a permanent resident. To which the person on the phone replied, let's bring him in anyway.

[James Stout]

You're going to be under arrest, so.

[Garrison Davis]

Turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around. Turn around. Stop resisting. Stop resisting. Okay, okay. He's not resisting. He's giving me his phone. Okay. He's not.

[Gilbert King]

I. I understand.

[James Stout]

He's not resisting. Put your arms around. There's no need for this.

[Garrison Davis]

Don't worry about it.

[James Stout]

We have going to have to come with us. Don't worry. I'm coming with you.

[Garrison Davis]

Don't worry. You guys really don't need to be.

[James Stout]

Doing all of that.

[Garrison Davis]

During the arrest, Khalil's lawyer, Amy Greer, spoke on the phone with one of the ICE agents who said that they were acting on State Department orders to revoke Khalil's student visa. Greer reiterated to the agents that Kiln Khalil was in fact a permanent resident with a green card. But the ICE agent just responded by saying they were revoking the green card instead. Khalil's a graduate student who has been studying at Columbia for over two years. Last year, Khalil emerged as a visible Figure in the college encampment protests, becoming a public spokesperson and a lead negotiator on behalf of Columbia University apartheid divest. Though never being arrested, Khalil faced harassment from right wing Zionist doxing campaigns calling for his deportation. And when ICE did come for Cleo, disappearing him to a detention facility in Louisiana and cutting him off from communication with his wife and lawyer. Throughout all of this, he was not charged with any crime. Instead, ICE and the State Department are using a rarely used Cold War era immigration statute that gives the Secretary of State the power to exclude or deport any non citizen of the United States if there are, quote, reasonable grounds to believe that an individual's entry, proposed activities, presence or activities in the United States would have, quote, potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences.

[James Stout]

Yeah, that was the one that, like, I remember at the time, you, you and I were discussing this, like in our group chat, and we were trying to work out, like, how the Secretary of State could be revoking a green card. Like, yeah, and I think you found this or you found it somewhere in the. And the Trump administration has been very, very good at finding very obscure pieces of law that it can wield against migrants. Right? Like, no one in 2016 would have foreseen what they did with Title 42, which is a public health law. And they're doing something similar here. I mean, they may have spent the last four years looking for these things, especially when the campus protest began. But like, this is entirely unprecedented, as far as I'm aware.

[Garrison Davis]

And right after this happened, like, we discussed how this case was probably going to be used as a testing ground for employing these tactics on a more widespread scale, creating legal precedent. And sure enough, Khalil's case was not an outlier. This was just the first public instance of the Trump administration's directed targeting of students they believe to be associated with protests against Israel and its actions in Gaza. And this wave of actions by ICE had actually already begun before Khalil's arrest. The day before Khalil was arrested, ICE agents knocked on the door of PhD student Rajani Srinivasan, who a few days prior was suddenly notified that her student visa had been revoked. When ICE agents knocked, she did not answer the door. The next day, ICE showed up again to her Columbia University apartment. Srinivasan was not home, but upon hearing of Khalil's arrest just a few hours later, she decided to quickly collect some belongings and flee to Canada. Five days later, when ICE returned to her residence, but this time with a warrant, Srinivasan was already gone. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem praised this as, quote, unquote, self deportation.

[James Stout]

Yeah, they talk about this a lot. Like self deportation is definitely one of their goals. They talked about it before Trump even came into power. Like that's what we're seeing a lot of these spectacle raids and like, spectacle deportations.

[Garrison Davis]

Scare tactics.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. The desires people leave. Is she a Canadian citizen or like.

[Garrison Davis]

I don't believe so, no.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Garrison Davis]

It was just the fastest flight from.

[James Stout]

LaGuardia out of the country.

[Garrison Davis]

Out of like. Yeah, the closest. The closest she could be.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I wonder what her immigration status is in Canada now.

[Garrison Davis]

She is currently figuring this whole situation out, still navigating her legal options both in Canada and the States.

[James Stout]

Yeah, that'd be interesting too, to see what Canada can offer her. And like, I don't think the Trump administration would go after, like, having her extradited back because, as you say, she's not accused of a crime and they've kind of got what they wanted. But it'd be interesting to follow that.

[Garrison Davis]

There is no need for extradition because none of the people that we're talking about today were accused of any crime.

[James Stout]

Yeah. With the other cases of, quote, unquote, like self deportation, one of the issues is people have had their passport seized and held like lots of Venezuelan migrants, so they actually can't, or it would be very difficult for them to just get on a flight and leave.

[Garrison Davis]

Which I think is in part why she made the decision to get out when she could.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Garrison Davis]

DHS claimed in a statement that Srinivasan advocated violence and was, quote, involved in activities supporting Hamas, a terrorist organization, unquote, ISIS targeting her seemingly stems from being mass arrested while trying to return to her apartment from a picnic with friends on the same day as the Hamilton Hill occupation.

[James Stout]

Jesus.

[Garrison Davis]

She couldn't get home and was caught up in the crowd and was arrested among a hundred other people. She received two summons for obstructing traffic and failure to disperse. But her case was quickly dismissed. Homeland Security claims that failing to declare these two summons is what caused her visa to be revoked.

[James Stout]

Okay, interesting.

[Garrison Davis]

That same week, Ice went after another green card holder at Columbia, a 21 year old student named Yung Sao Chung, a permanent resident who immigrated to the United States from South Korea with her family when she was 7. On March 9, ICE agents visited her parents home looking for Chung. And that day she received an odd text message reading, hi, Yunsao, this is Audrey from the police. My job is to reach out to you and see if you have any questions about your recent arrest and the process going forward, when are you available for a phone call? Unquote. This recent arrest was allegedly in reference to being detained, among others, at a sit in protest at Barnard College on March 5, Chung was charged and then released with misdemeanor obstruction. After receiving that sketchy text message, Chung got an email from Columbia Public Safety reading, quote, the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of New York has asked us to inform you that Homeland Security Investigation agents are seeking to make contact with you in connection with an administrative warrant for your arrest, consistent with the University's practice. We wanted to share this information and their request with you. If you are represented by counsel, it may make sense for your lawyer to speak directly with dhs. Unquote. Chung's lawyer decided to call, quote, unquote, Audrey from the police, who revealed that she was actually an HSI agent and that the State Department was revoking Ms. Chung's residency status. Now, rather than opting for self deportation or turning herself into immigration authorities, Chung decided to go into hiding and fight the deportation in the courts while trying to evade ICE detention. When ICE failed to locate her, they enlisted the help of federal prosecutors. To quote from the New York Times, quote, On March 10, Perry Carboni, a high ranking lawyer in the federal Prosecutor's office, told Ms. Ahmad, Ms. Chung's attorney, that the Secretary of State, Mr. Rubio, had revoked Ms. Chung's visa. Ms. Ahmad responded that Ms. Chung was not in the country on a visa and was a permanent resident, according to the lawsuit. Mr. Caboni responded that Mr. Rubio had, quote, revoked that as well, unquote. Yeah, so this is the exact same language we saw with Khalil, and it displays a general uncaring towards who they are actually targeting and what their actual legal status is in the United States. They think they're going after people with student visas, but when it turns out they have green cards, that doesn't stop them. They still continue to do it anyway. On March 13, ICE searched two residences on campus with warrants citing a statute for harboring non citizens. But Chung was nowhere to be found. Like Khalil, the Trump administration is arguing that her presence in the United States hinders the administration's foreign policy agenda. But her lawyers note that Chung was not by any means a, quote, unquote, movement leader. She was simply one of hundreds of students who joined in nationwide protests against Israel's actions in Gaza. Her Lawyers write, quote, Ms. Chung has not made public statements to the press or otherwise assumed a high profile role in these protests. She was rather one of a large group of college students raising, expressing and discussing shared concerns, unquote. Chung had previously faced a university disciplinary process which found she was not in violation of any university policy related to protests. Last year, Chung's lawyers filed a lawsuit to prevent her deportation, claiming that ice's actions against Chung are illegal and unconstitutional. This lawsuit reads, quote, officials at the highest echelons government are attempting to use immigration enforcement as a bludgeon to support suppress speech that they dislike, including Ms. Chung's speech. ICE's shocking actions against Ms. Chung form a part of a larger pattern of attempted US Government repression of constitutionally protected protest activity and other forms of speech, unquote. On March 25, a federal judge granted a temporary restraining order halting efforts from ICE to detain or relocate Chung. The judge said that the government produced, quote, nothing in the record to indicate Chung is a danger to the community or a, quote, unquote, foreign policy risk or that she was in any communication with terrorist organizations. The judge said that there would be, quote, no trips to Louisiana here, unquote. This is in reference to the big ICE detention facility in Louisiana. We'll be right back after this ad break.

[Jeremy Scott]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.

[James Stout]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Jeremy Scott]

Long, silent voices from his past came.

[Gilbert King]

Forward and he was just staring at me.

[Jeremy Scott]

And they had secrets of their own to share.

[Gilbert King]

Gilbert King I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

[Gilbert King]

Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[Gilbert King]

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

[Jeremy Scott]

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

[Gilbert King]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Jeremy Scott]

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy, Jeremy, I.

[James Stout]

Want to tell you something.

[Jeremy Scott]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Garrison Davis]

Okay, we're back now. Although Chung has at least temporarily halted ICE's efforts to detain or deport her, not all legal recourses have Proven successful. This week, a US District judge declined a request to block the deportation of Cornell student Mamadou Tale after the State Department revoked his visa. On March 31, Tal released a statement, Quote, given what we have seen across the United States, I have lost faith that a favorable ruling from the courts would guarantee my personal safety and ability to express my beliefs. I have lost faith I could walk the streets without being abducted. Weighing these options, I took the decision to leave on my own terms.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it's pretty bleak.

[Garrison Davis]

So Tal has elected for the, quote, unquote, self deportation option, at least for now. I believe his case is going to continue, but he's not going to remain in the United States.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I think he returned to the uk, right?

[Garrison Davis]

I believe so, yeah. He's a British citizen now. Interestingly, last September, Cornell University itself tried to revoke Tull's student visa for involvement in student protests, but he successfully appealed and was able to continue his African studies PhD remotely.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I spoke to him a little bit back then, just via direct message. But I think at that time, whatever his agreement was, it seems like there was a component of it that at least he didn't want to talk about it in public, which is fine. Everyone has a right to do that and he should do what's best for himself. But maybe I'll try and follow up with him again now, see if he wants to speak, because he seems to have, like, he's been, of all of these people, like, the one who's been able to make the most statements and control his narrative to some degree.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, no, he entered this period of, like, radio silence after he won his appeal last fall and then only started speaking publicly again once he began getting targeted by the Trump administration. Yeah, like the past month and a.

[James Stout]

Half, I think he proactively filed that suit. Right. Like before. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Now, the scale that Mark Rubio and ICE are seeking for in regards to deportations is seemingly going to be increasingly large. On March 27, Secretary of State Mark Rubio claimed that he has revoked over 300 student visas so far, saying at a press conference, quote, we do it every day. Every time I find one of these lunatics, I take away their visas. Unquote. Now, there are a few ways the government is currently trying to find these, quote, unquote, lunatics. ICE seems to be targeting noncitizens who have been arrested or detained at Palestine protests, even if their charges were subsequently dropped. This is the case for Chung and Srinivasan, as well as former student Leka Cordilla, a Palestinian who was Arrested at Columbia campus protests in April of 2024. She's currently being held in an ICE detention facility in Texas. Now, beyond arrest records, the government is utilizing the World Wide Web and social media to identify new and returning visa applicants and possibly current visa holders that, quote, support terrorist organizations, unquote. Social media screening of immigrants and visa holders has been slowly ramping up since 2014 and accelerated during Trump's first term. But a new directive from Secretary of State Mark Rubio titled Enhanced Screening and Social Media Vetting for Visa Applicants was sent out on March 25 and leaked by journalist Ken Klippenstein. The directive cites two executive orders from Trump. Measures to combat anti Semitism and, quote, protecting the United States from foreign terrorists and other national security and public safety threats, unquote. The State Department is now requiring consular officers to conduct a, quote, unquote, mandatory social media review with screenshotting for students and student exchange visitors with the intent of looking for evidence of, quote, advocating for, sympathizing with or persuading others to endorse or espouse terrorist activities or support a designated foreign terrorist organization, unquote. Now, this applies to FMNJ visas, so student exchange visas, academic visas and vocational visas. The directive also instructs officers to search social media for, quote, conduct that bears a hostile attitude towards US Citizens or US Culture, including government institutions or founding principles, unquote, which is kind of the most incredibly broad thing I've ever seen.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I mean, that's leaving it at the complete discretion of the officer.

[Garrison Davis]

Right. There's already been an instance of U.S. customs agents denying entry to someone who had a, quote, unquote, anti Trump sentiments found on their phone. Now, though this new directive is focused on denying or revoking student visas, the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to expand its social media data collection to U.S. citizenship, green card and asylum applicants. Basically, anyone and everyone in the US Immigration system, no matter their current status or what previous vetting they might have already gone through.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

On March 5th, DHS issued a 60 day notice for public comment on a proposal for, quote, uniform vetting standards and national security screening, unquote, that includes the collection of social media information for all noncitizens applying for immigration benefits like citizenship or permanent residency. A statement from the U.S. citizenship and Immigration Service reads, quote, these efforts ensure that those seeking immigration benefits to live and work in the United States do not threaten public safety, undermine national security, or promote harmful anti American ideologies, unquote.

[James Stout]

Yeah, the anti American ideologies, again, is just vastly broad, right?

[Garrison Davis]

It's like crazy red scare level stuff.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And I'm guessing this will be either like a literal control f of whatever they can find of your public social media or some kind of AI assisted. That's what it seems to be. Right.

[Garrison Davis]

Like, former immigration agents have suggested that they're probably going to use some AI system for this, as they've already kind of used more primitive versions. But ramping up to this scale and with, like, this increased focus and, like, attention on quote, unquote, AI is going to affect the way that they do this vetting process? Absolutely.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Great.

[Garrison Davis]

So though the government is trying to increase their social media screening, so far they actually haven't had to do that much of their own research to identify targets for removal. On March 17, a Georgetown scholar named Bdar Khan Suri was arrested by Homeland Security outside his home in Virginia, where he lives with his wife, who's a US citizen, and and their three kids. According to Suri's lawyer, masked agents quote, refused to tell him the basis for the arrest, handcuffed him and forced him into an unmarked black suv, unquote. Later, his wife was informed that her husband's visa was revoked based on social media posts, and that Suri was sent to ICE detention in Louisiana. Homeland Security Assistant Secretary Trisha McLaughlin posted on X that Surrey was, quote, actively spreading Hamas propaganda and promoting anti Semitism on social media. The Secretary of State issued a determination that Surrey's activities and presence in the United States rendered him deportable, unquote, Jesus. Of course, any single post in support of Palestine is going to be seen as, quote, unquote, promoting anti Semitism. According to Mark Rubio, Surrey's lawyer wrote in a court filing, quote, Dr. Suri is an academic, not an activist, but he spoke out on social media about his views on the Israel Gaza War. Even more so, his wife is an outspoken critic of the Israeli government and the violence it has perpetuated against Palestinians, unquote.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it seems like he was identified through his wife, Right?

[Garrison Davis]

Correct. And we'll get to that.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Garrison Davis]

Suri has no criminal record and according to a colleague, he did not attend campus protests. However, Suri's lawyer writes that his family have been victims of a doxing campaign with his wife stating that a website had, quote, claimed falsely that my husband and I have, quote, ties to Hamas, unquote. The Homeland Security Assistant Secretary referenced that claim in a public statement on Twitter. And this harassment stems in part from Suri's father in law being Ahmad Yousef, a former advisor to Hamas. A Federal judge blocked Suri's deportation as immigration court proceedings continue, but he still remains in ICE detention.

[James Stout]

What kind of visa was he on?

[Garrison Davis]

He's not a green card holder. He received his visa to continue doctoral research on peace building in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's some kind of, like, academic or exchange visa. I don't think we know the exact type that he has.

[James Stout]

Okay. Yeah, that would be, like. It would be interesting to know if, like, are they searching just through F1 visa databases or are they. I mean, obviously not if they're finding these green card people, but, like.

[Garrison Davis]

Well, I. I think specifically in this case, they're searching social media. They're not searching through their own databases. They don't care what kind of visa he has. They're looking at this doxxing campaign that's been targeted at him and his family for, like, over a year and using that as the basis to. To deport him.

[James Stout]

Right. And then being like, can we deport? He's not a citizen, so. Yes, basically.

[Garrison Davis]

Even though his wife is a citizen.

[James Stout]

Yeah. His children, presumably, therefore, also citizens.

[Garrison Davis]

His wife, who's. Whose father is Ahmad Yousef. They can't deport her because she's a citizen. Or at least they can't deport her right now. Who knows if they'll try to denaturalize in the future.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

But this is the easiest person to target.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And I think that's kind of what they're going for. Like, a lot of this is it's like the politics of owning the libs. Right. It's like the politics of being angry at your niece and nephew on Facebook and wanting to humiliate them. Like, it's not a particularly, like, coherent policy other than, like, the Palestine protests made a lot of people on the right mad, and they don't like migrants and that now they're using this obscure legal provision as a. As a cudgel against everything they dislike.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. And using social media to identify people who have never been arrested, never been charged with anything.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

We're gonna finish our discussion on these doxxing campaigns and ICE action starting students after this ad break.

[Jeremy Scott]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season one.

[James Stout]

I just knew him as a kid.

[Jeremy Scott]

Long, silent voices from his past came.

[Gilbert King]

Forward, and he was just staring at me.

[Jeremy Scott]

And they had secrets of their own to share.

[Gilbert King]

Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it.

[Gilbert King]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

[Gilbert King]

If the cops and everything would have done the job properly, my dad would have have been in jail. I would have never existed.

[Jeremy Scott]

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here.

[Gilbert King]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Jeremy Scott]

Bone Valley Season 2 Jeremy Jeremy, I.

[James Stout]

Want to tell you something.

[Jeremy Scott]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast and to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Garrison Davis]

All right, we're back. So right now the two main vectors for ICE detention, whether you have a green card or a visa, seems to be previous arrests or these mass doxing campaigns. Now, someone like Mahmoud Khalil was never arrested or charged with a crime, but instead has been the target of harassment from both a local campus doxxing account run by Columbia professors and fellow students as well as larger right wing Zionist organizations like Canary Mission. A few days before being arrested by ice, Canary Mission posted a video naming Khalil as a quote, unquote siren emoji suspected foreign national alert. So what is Canary Mission? If you're lucky enough to be unaware, since 2015, Canary Mission has been collecting and publishing personal information of people they accuse of promoting, quote, hatred of the United States, Israel and Jews on North American college campuses and beyond. Unquote. Now they have profiles for a few legitimate like American neo Nazis. But many profiles only cite criticism of the Israeli government and its actions in Gaza as proof of alleged antisemitism. And now there is increasing evidence that the government is using websites like Canary Mission to target students, professors and scholars for ICE deportation, essentially outsourcing intel gathering from these pro Israel non government organizations. A few weeks ago, Canary Mission uploaded a profile for Rumeza Ozturk, a Turkish graduate student at Tufts University. They included a picture, her resume, and linked to an op ed she co wrote last year for her student paper criticizing the university for its ties to Israel amidst the war in Gaza. For this, the Canary Mission claimed Ozturk engaged in anti Israel activism. Two weeks later, while walking alone to Iftar dinner for Ramadan, a plainclothes ICE agent approached Azturk on the sidewalk. As he grabbed her arms and wrestled away her phone, five more agents surrounded her and pulled up their gator masks as Neighbors began filming the arrest. Within 24 hours, she was moved to ICE detention in Louisiana. A statement from Homeland Security claimed that HSI Homeland Security investigation had determined that Ozturk, quote, engaged in activities in support of Hamas, a foreign terrorist organization that relishes the killing of Americans, unquote. And Secretary of State Mark Rubio said, quote, we gave you a visa to come and study and get a degree, not to become a social activist. That tears up our university campuses, unquote.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I mean, again, like, writing an op ed is like as central to the First Amendment as things can be, right? Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

There's. There's no evidence she was even attending campus protests, let alone tearing up, tearing up the university. She co wrote an op ed and you should not be deported for engaging in protest on a university campus at all. Right. This is, yes, blatantly unconstitutional, extremely worrying. The fact that this person just got a profile in the Canary Mission website for writing an op ed and then this is used as justification for her deportation is still like an even greater escalation.

[James Stout]

Yeah. If we're talking about this sort of liberal idea of the marketplace of ideas, the way that ideas enter the marketplace, you will find nothing more amenable to liberalism than writing an op ed in your campus newspaper. Right. That is the most well behaved, straight down the middle, constitutionally protected thing. Way to engage in anti genocide activism, pro Palestine activism. So in a sense, this one is particularly disturbing. It's a frontal assault on First Amendment rights for non citizens is what it is.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes. On March 24, Canary Mission published a new section of their website titled Uncovering Foreign Nationals, which lists the profiles of non citizens who they believe qualify for deportation.

[James Stout]

Jesus.

[Garrison Davis]

Another far right, pro Israel doxing group called Batar, which even the ADL lists as an extremist group, which is wild. Batar says that they have given the Trump administration a deportation list of thousands of names, including citizens that they expect to be denaturalized. People like Mamadou Tal and Mahmoud Khalil have been targeted by both of these organizations.

[James Stout]

People will be familiar with. I don't know if it's Bitar or bitar, but like, you probably have seen videos of them on campus trying to hand pagers to people.

[Garrison Davis]

Pagers? Yeah, like making light of the pager attack Israel did.

[James Stout]

I mean, making a threat, like, sure, like if you're going to come onto a campus and make a fucking bomb threat, accuse someone else of terrorism. I mean, the hypocrisy is kind of the point, but.

[Garrison Davis]

Or even just like, you know, quote, unquote celebrating the deaths of people, Right?

[James Stout]

Yeah. Right. Like, like mocking this attack which killed children, which, you know, crippled people. It's just disgusting. It's like just abhorrent. They seem to get a lot of attention online because they do the thing where they go up to people and say deliberately provocative things and then film their reactions. Right. They're kind of IRL trolling.

[Garrison Davis]

The past week, ICE actions against students have seemingly accelerated. Alireza Daruti, a doctoral student from Iran studying at the University of Alabama, was arrested by ICE on March 25 in the middle of the night at his off campus apartment. Darutti's entry visa expired, but he was allowed to stay in the States as he still maintained his student seat status. Yeah, it's unknown why exactly he was targeted. He has no ties to protests or any notable online footprint.

[James Stout]

It could be his ethnic origin. Right leg.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah. It could be his name, right?

[James Stout]

Yeah. But that we should explain the status thing a bit more for people who aren't familiar. So, like, sure. Your status is when you're in good standing with the university. So normally that means you need to be enrolled in 12 credits per. You might be on semesters, you might be on quarters. I don't think it hugely matters. There's a minimum course load. It may be different for different systems. I don't know. You'd also need to be in good standing in terms of like not late on your fees. Right. Your tuition fees, that kind of stuff. Right. Not in any. You haven't been expelled or excluded from the university for any actions that you've taken, that kind of thing. It means you are currently a student at the university. Basically. The only time this normally affects international students I'm aware of, like, as a person who now teaches students, is like, they can't drop below a certain course load when otherwise they may wish to drop below a certain course load towards the focus on. They might have a research position, they might be doing other stuff on campus, like taing. Sometimes that taing counts towards their course load, sometimes it doesn't. But it can affect things like that. But generally it would be the university that would update that status, that would notify U.S. customs and Immigration if somebody fell out of compliance with that. If I'm hearing right, that doesn't seem like that's what happened here, right?

[Garrison Davis]

No, simply his entry visa expired. So if he left the country, he then would have to get another visa to get back to come back. But he can stay as long as he still has his valid student status. So not only Is ICE trying to revoke these, like, visas, but they're trying to essentially say that by revoking these visas, they are also attempting to strip them of their student status, which is like a, A separate, like, step. These things can get kind of very, very blurry, though.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Like, I don't quite know how that works in terms of, like, are ICE supposed to be able to. I don't think it hugely matters at this point.

[Garrison Davis]

Technically, the State Department does have that ability, but it's under the same, like, foreign policy risk designation.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Garrison Davis]

And they'll justify it by saying, well, his visa already expired, so we're just removing him because his visa expired, even though that's not really how this works.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And they don't have to remove him for that reason. But, yeah, in this case, I guess they're going for something else.

[Garrison Davis]

No, because the University of Alabama did not elect to rescind his student status. He was a student in good standing.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

And thus legally allowed in the United States.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone else here, he hadn't done anything that would, under normal circumstances, lead him having any interactions with uscis.

[Garrison Davis]

Just this last week, I sustained a University of Minnesota grad student at their off campus housing. The university released a statement saying that they had no prior knowledge of this incident and had not shared any information with federal authorities. This person's name is still not released. Last week, a student at the Southern Illinois University had their visa revoked. The school administration told their college paper that the university has no role in the visa revocation process. The Illinois Governor's office is working with schools across the state to, quote, ensure they are being vigilant about what's happening on their respective campuses. The governor's team has asked universities to communicate with international students about the general resources available to them through the institution. In addition, we have suggested that they connect impacted students with legal resources that have been in place for several years, unquote. According to a statement sent to the university paper, the Daily Egyptian, Tina Sickinger, which is a very cool name. The school's Director of International Student and Scholar Services sent an email to the international Student body of Southern Illinois University advising them to carry photocopies of immigration documents with them at all times, as well as proof of enrollment and records of U.S. residences. The email recommended that students, quote, use caution on social media and exercise discretion when participating in political demonstrations or protests, unquote Warning that though protests should be protected speech, quote, such activities can sometimes be misinterpreted and may carry risks to your immigration status, unquote. Unfortunately, I think this is the university trying to look out for these students.

[James Stout]

Yeah. That's what the best you could expect from them really.

[Garrison Davis]

And, and they are providing like legal resources to these students, but they're essentially saying like you shouldn't post anything or do any protests because then ICE might come kidnap you.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Which is just a fucked up situation to be in. And like.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

They don't have like any other ability to like stop this right now. I am, I am curious what Pritzker is going to, going to continue to do here though.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I mean none of what they've said is like wrong. It's kind of what you can expect from the university. The best you can expect from the university really is like, hey, we've noticed it's happening.

[Garrison Davis]

So that is the situation as it currently stands. I do have one, one final tidbit here just that highlights the absurdity of this whole situation. On March 24, a lawsuit on behalf of Israeli Columbia students and relatives of Israeli 10-7-Vampires was filed against Columbia Jewish Voice for Peace and Students for Justice in Palestine, Columbia University Apartheid Divest and individual Columbia students, including Mahmoud Khalil. The lawsuit alleges that these Columbia groups and students are the domestic propaganda arm of Hamas and even claims that these groups had advanced notice that the October 7th attack was going to take place.

[James Stout]

Oh come on.

[Garrison Davis]

So the plan was kept secret among Hamas own political allies in the region. Yeah, but, but they gave an Ivy League university in New York City tip off.

[James Stout]

They just let him know what was coming.

[Garrison Davis]

Completely absurd.

[James Stout]

Yeah, absolutely. Like the IDF completely failed to see this coming. Right, but not the folks at the Ivy League universities who were ready and waiting.

[Garrison Davis]

Hamas didn't tell the Houthis. They didn't tell Iran. They didn't tell Hezbollah. They didn't tell Hezbollah, but they told student activist groups in New York City at the Columbia University campus.

[James Stout]

Yeah, absolutely ludicrous. Like I eagerly await this court case, I guess, to see what evidence they have of this. The evidence is going to be like someone had a Palestinian flag.

[Garrison Davis]

Some of the quote unquote evidence that they, that they allege is that some of these like activist accounts had renewed activity in October of 2023, like before the attack happened. But this is just a simple coincidence. Obviously these people did not have a heads up that the October 7th attack was going to take place. Yeah. The lawsuit also argues that protest activity is not first amendment protected speech, but in fact quote, substantial assistance in the form of propaganda and recruiting services and in coordination with a designated foreign Terrorist organization, again, alleging there is some kind of communication between Hamas and student activists in New York City.

[James Stout]

Yeah. This is ludicrous. Like, one of the reasons that maybe we're seeing this so much over the Palestine advocacy is that Hamas is a listed foreign terrorist organization. Many other groups and lots of groups in that part of the world are. But, like, it's just a bigger stick to wave, I guess, material aid, or that no one has been actually accused of material aid to a foreign terrorist organization, as far as I'm aware. But, like, that is kind of the sort of stick that they're waving. Right. That is the thing that they're alleging.

[Garrison Davis]

I will end us with just this kind of final note. Now. While there are little signs that this would happen at a scale this large and this focused under a Democratic president, a degree of consent for this type of targeting was manufactured the past year as it relates to Palestine protests, with some liberals and Democratic politicians associating activists as pro Hamas terrorists. And this is the consequence of that public perception building and the consent being manufactured for that framing. And now that the even more evil side is in charge, they can take that justification and run with it way further than what a Joe Biden or Kamala Harris would have done. So it is far worse. But it's not in a political bubble. This is. This has been like, a growing project for the past few years.

[James Stout]

There was no point at which the Biden administration really, like, effusively said, this is protected First Amendment speech.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

We may not like it, but it is central to the Bill of Rights. It's central to what America is supposed to be about.

[Garrison Davis]

They never defended the constitutionality of this speech.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Nor would they have intervened to stop the deportation of someone like Tal if Cornell decided to revoke his status. Right, right.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

I don't think the Biden administration or a Kamala Harris administration would be directing these. These universities to take that action themselves. Nor would they be, I think, revoking student visas at scale like this. No, but they would have let ICE do the stuff that ICE does if universities themselves elect to remove student visas or unenroll these students. And, like, a degree of the complacency here is placed on the actual university administrations, the university staff who have been vilifying these protesters for the past two years.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And I mean, in some cases. Right. Like, I'm thinking of one of Columbia, like, professors got away with things which are absolutely unacceptable and like, a hundred percent, in some violation of your agreement with the university as a member of the faculty like doxxing your students, photographing students without their consent, following students around, like, absolutely unacceptable. Like, in any other context that you would be immediately shitcanned for that. Like, really, really, the only reason you can lose tenure seemingly is being a fucking creep to students or stealing a lot of money. And, like, universities did allow that for more than a year under the Biden administration. And, like, we're seeing the consequences of that now.

[Garrison Davis]

It's also worth noting that since I've had to quote from so many government statements this episode, the Trump Admin is continuing to correlate any expression of sympathy or solidarity with Palestine as explicit support for Hamas. Basically, anything you say that's critical of the Israeli government, its actions in Gaza are being interpreted by the Trump administration as anti Semitism and support for the October 7th massacre. This is a false equivalency. What the government alleges should not be automatically taken as the truth. These tactics have been used for years to broadly smear pro Palestine activists while also hurting anti Zionist Jews. And I guess, like, finally, we are not necessarily endorsing every single thing that every single one of these students has said.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

We do not necessarily agree with the framing of every single sentence that they have said.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I mean, we don't know everything that they've said.

[Garrison Davis]

We can. Yeah, exactly. This is like, completely separate to that.

[James Stout]

Yeah. It doesn't matter. Like, we are defending their right to engage in constitutionally protected speech.

[Garrison Davis]

Correct. No matter what they're saying, no matter if they have opinions on Hamas that differ from ours, no matter what they are saying at a campus protest, it should not result in ICE targeting them and hunting them down and forcing students who attend sit in protests into hiding to defend their own rights and to keep their green cards. This is like a completely absurd and like, blatantly fascist to use the now overused word, frankly. But this is like, this is. This is what that is. If this was happening in China, this was happening in Russia, in other countries, people would be very, very quick to call out.

[James Stout]

I mean, it does happen in Russia. Right, People.

[Garrison Davis]

Exactly. And people are quick to call it out.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah. And the State Department of this country has called it out. Right. Like, it rightly.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes.

[James Stout]

Like, I don't agree with everything the State Department does, but I do agree with him on that. Like, yeah. And I think this is like, I know if you find yourself having a discussion about this, I think almost everyone in America can find something that they disagree with the government on or have disagreed with the government on. And like, this hurts every single one of us, right? Like everyone's right to freedom of speech is challenged when someone's right to freedom of speech is challenged. And like, I think that is the way to approach this. It doesn't really matter if the people whose speech is being challenged right now, their speech is o if it's odious to us, if it's something that we don't agree with. Like, that isn't what's at stake. What's at stake is everyone's right to say everything without government consequences.

[Garrison Davis]

Well, I think that doesn't for us today at It Could Happen here. We will continue to report on the targeting of students, scholars and professors and immigrants in general as the Trump administration ramps up its deportation efforts. Yeah, if you would like to contact us about these topics, we have an encrypted email address at coolzone Tips Proton Me. It is end to end encrypted. So if you use another encrypted email Service or another ProtonMail account to send the email, only then is it encrypted. It could Happen. Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here, listed directly in Episode Descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[Jeremy Scott]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Scofield in Bone Valley Season one.

[Gilbert King]

Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Jeremy Scott]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

[Gilbert King]

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Jeremy Scott]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 starring starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.