It Could Happen Here Weekly 219

Summary

Behind the Bastards – "It Could Happen Here Weekly 219" (Feb 14, 2026)

Host: Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts
Summary by Podcast Summarizer

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Episode Overview

This special episode of Behind the Bastards compiles a week's worth of "It Could Happen Here" coverage, focusing on disturbing trends in American culture and politics. The main themes:

• The spread and meaning of online memes (particularly the “Lonely Penguin”) and their appropriation by reactionary and far-right politics
• The ongoing normalization of self-destructive, nihilistic power structures in the Trump era
• The myth of "returning to normal" in social and economic life
• Grassroots resistance to ICE’s rapidly expanding network of detention centers
• A deep-dive into the disturbing DOJ handling of the Epstein files
  Intense, sometimes darkly humorous, and always incisive, the episode offers a sweeping look at how today's political and cultural disasters are deeply interwoven and historically rooted.

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Segment 1: The "Lonely Penguin" Meme & Far-Right Symbolism

[02:32 – 15:04] Host: Garrison Davis & Team

Key Points:

• The Trump administration used a viral penguin meme—originating from remixed Werner Herzog documentary footage—to symbolize their Greenland expansion efforts.
  • "[An] image of Trump walking hand and flipper alongside a penguin holding an American flag... sparked ridicule... based on the fact that there aren't any penguins in Greenland." —Garrison Davis [02:40]
• Meme’s online evolution: Far-right groups interpret the penguin’s solitary trek as a metaphor for heroic male rebellion and Western “greatness,” despite Herzog portraying the penguin's journey as deranged and doomed.
  • "Users, mostly male, saw the penguin as a powerful rebuke of secular modernity." —Garrison Davis [05:39]
• Government agencies, anti-immigration groups, and politicians co-opted the meme for propagandistic purposes, using AI-generated versions.
• The actual documentary shows the penguin is lost, doomed, and wandering to its death — making its adoption as a right-wing mascot deeply ironic and disturbing.

Notable Quotes:

• “The penguin is not the Ubermensch. The penguin will not achieve individual greatness… the penguin is going to die.” —Garrison Davis [15:04]
• "The Nazis get the skull, we get a f---ing penguin." —Garrison Davis [15:32]

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Segment 2: The Death Drive & The Suicidal State

[15:04 – 38:33] Host: Garrison Davis

Key Points:

• Details philosophical concepts connecting fascist and reactionary politics to a “death drive”—a subconscious desire for self-destruction and societal collapse.
• Draws parallels from Deleuze, Guattari, and Virilio’s analyses of fascism; contrasts with totalitarianism, arguing that contemporary American right-wing is accelerating its own unraveling rather than seeking control.
  • “The suicide state… is not just a manager of death. It is rather the ongoing agent of its own catastrophe...” —Garrison Davis citing Vladimir Svatli [31:56]
• Explores real-world manifestations: The "Killdozer" and "Sky King" incidents as folk-heroes for young nihilistic men on the far right.
• Highlights economic and ecological crises as symptoms of wider, self-destructive political routines, from tariffs to dismantling of public institutions.

Notable Quotes:

• "Instead of resolving crises, [fascism] produces constant crisis for it to feed off of, forming… a war machine that no longer had anything but war as its object…” —Garrison Davis [32:08]
• “Only in transformation of ordinary social life into the horrific in the minds of the populace can the fascist find their surest means of governing.” —Garrison Davis [49:16]

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Segment 3: The Myth of Normal and "Progress"

[36:26 – 67:38] Hosts: Andrew Sage & James Stout

Key Points:

• Scrutinizes nostalgia for a "normal" America, noting that many systemic issues—imperialism, economic exploitation, climate crisis—have persisted for decades and are products of "normalcy," not aberrations.
  • "Trump is not truly exceptional. Rather, he's a product of the normal that people seem to be yearning for." —Andrew Sage [36:42]
• Discusses the fallacy of linear progress, referencing Malcolm X and social theorists.
  • "Is it really progress to go back to a state that already was?” —Andrew Sage [40:24]
• Examines techno-utopian fantasies and ecological realities, questioning sustainability and ideas of endless growth.
• Offers critiques of individualism and the illusion of independence, discussing the performativity of self-sufficiency in influencer/homesteader culture.
• Emphasizes mutual aid, community, and interdependence as paths to weather ongoing and coming crises.

Notable Quotes:

• “We can't supplement each and every individual person with a car for all of time.” —Andrew Sage [44:55]
• “The whole homesteading fantasy is this very comforting illusion… people… lived off the land… in community.” —Andrew Sage [67:02]
• "The community support and the shared resources are going to matter a lot more than your personal purchasing power." —Andrew Sage [68:50]

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Segment 4: Organizing Against ICE Warehouses – The Georgia Case

[74:05 – 103:08] Host: James Stout & Guest: Sam Hamilton (Advancing Justice-Atlanta)

Key Points:

• ICE’s new initiative: converting massive warehouses (including a 1M sq foot site in Social Circle, GA) to house thousands of detainees.
  • "ICE intends to use a warehouse… over 1 million square feet to detain about 8,500 people." —Sam Hamilton [74:45]
• Describes how small, relatively affluent, conservative towns, blindsided by the news, mobilize when ICE announces facilities without local input.
• Community opposition focuses first on practical concerns (property values, local resources), but expands to human rights and abolitionist advocacy as more learn about ICE’s abuses.
• Tactics: demonstrations, media outreach, legislative and legal strategies, coalition-building—including unlikely alliances across political lines.
• Emphasis on urgency and respect for existing immigrant-led organizing: newcomers warned not to "pop in and tell us how to do everything" but to build coalitions and move fast and respectfully.

Notable Quotes:

• "This is a concentration camp… they're filling [the warehouses] with people that apparently we don't want. It's one of the more horrific things." —James Stout [100:01]
• “Legal tools will not liberate us… it's people power, coming together, mass collective action that is… going to do it.” —Sam Hamilton [94:44]

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Segment 5: Petty, History, & Smashing the Politics of Respectability

[108:44 – 154:49] Special Interview: Brandon Kyle Goodman, Amanda Nelson (Amanda's Mild Takes)

Key Points:

• Amanda Nelson discusses demystifying history and politics via accessible social media explainers, humor, and snark.
  • “...history [is] not that difficult to grasp if you just speak like a regular ass human.” —Brandon Kyle Goodman [110:10]
• Amanda's background: raised conservatively as a racialized minority in Virginia, develops political consciousness by interrogating the South’s history and expanding into activism.
• Commentary on the necessity of dragging online trolls and men who have never experienced consequences: “If you're a 50-year-old white man, you have never experienced a consequence for running your mouth ever. And I'm going to be that consequence for you.” —Amanda Nelson [127:21]
• Critique of historical analogies: warns against over-focusing on Nazi Germany as an American precedent while neglecting our homegrown histories of resistance and oppression (e.g., Black Panthers, labor, civil rights).
  • “Resistance in America comes from Black and Indigenous and Latino people… you have got to become more familiar with your own people.” —Amanda Nelson [140:01]

Notable Quotes & Moments:

• “You can call me the Pettysburg address”—the art of being “mean to people you're not supposed to be mean to” as strategic empowerment.
• “The people in power are not smarter than you.” —Amanda Nelson [138:36]

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Segment 6: The Conservative Media Counter-Spectacle – "All-American Halftime Show"

[158:52 – 181:11] Main Cast Discussion

Key Points:

• Turning Point USA’s attempt to stage an “All-American Halftime Show” flops comically compared to Bad Bunny’s historic Super Bowl halftime.
• Small attendance, awkward performances, derivative and sometimes incoherent lyrics, revealing a conservative yearning for folk authenticity but producing cringe.
• Kid Rock’s performance and subsequent explanations mocked; event's technical issues further underline the cultural disconnect.

Notable Moments:

• “It's so good… This all sounds like an ‘I Think You Should Leave’ sketch.” —James Stout [165:01]
• “You're being paid to sing about this… in fact, it's your job because you're not there for your musical abilities.” —James Stout [170:47]

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Segment 7: Current Events Roundup – Immigration/ICE, Policing, Tech Law

[181:13 – 194:08] Main Cast

Key Topics:

• Police use “brutal force” against high schoolers participating in anti-ICE and immigration enforcement walkouts in Illinois.
• ICE officer involved in accidental firearm discharge illustrates lax safety and broader problem with armed law enforcement.
• Family separations & targeting children in ICE deportation efforts; "baiting" tactics decried.
• Washington state proposes draconian legislation to require 3D-printer manufacturers to install firearm blueprint-blocking tech, raising civil-liberties concerns.
• California unleashes lawsuits targeting 3D-printed firearms code and websites.

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Segment 8: The Epstein Files & Pam Bondi’s DOJ Coverup

[194:26 – 215:14] Main Cast

Key Points:

• Congressional hearings on DOJ’s handling of Epstein files—focus on deliberate or grossly negligent exposure of victims' names, while still redacting co-conspirators, abusers, and clients.
  • “You published their names… for the world to see… you acted with some mixture of incompetence, indifference, and jaded cruelty.” —Rep. Jamie Raskin [201:29]
• Pam Bondi, new Trump-appointed AG, refuses to answer survivors, dodges all questions with extreme “whataboutism,” brings up stock market numbers, anti-Semitism, and irrelevant political affiliations as deflections.
  • “You are here for a hearing on the Epstein files. You are the Attorney General of the United States and you are a fucking piece of shit.” —Gia Giudice [208:07]
• Bondi actively avoids facing survivors, disrespects their trauma, and is roundly condemned by the pod’s hosts.
  • “She did not ever turn around and look at these survivors... She did not answer a single question honestly.” —Gia Giudice [206:56]

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Memorable Quotes

(with speaker & timestamps)

• Garrison Davis: "The Nazis get the skull, we get a f---ing penguin." [15:32]
• Garrison Davis: “Trump is not truly exceptional. Rather, he's a product of the normal that people seem to be yearning for.” [36:42]
• Amanda Nelson: "If you're a 50-year-old white man, you have never experienced a consequence for running your mouth ever. And I'm going to be that consequence for you." [127:21]
• Andrew Sage: "The whole homesteading fantasy is this very comforting illusion and fiction, in my view. Because… people… lived off the land… in community." [67:02]
• Rep. Raskin (quoted by Gia Giudice): "You published their names… you acted with some mixture of staggering incompetence, cold indifference and jaded cruelty..." [201:19]

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Takeaways

• Right-wing politics continues to embrace chaos, spectacle, and death drive impulses, even (ironically) in meme culture.
• Grassroots opposition forms in even the most unexpected communities in response to draconian immigration enforcement tactics.
• The myth of "normal" America is deeply misleading—our present crises are born of long-standing historical trends, not sudden deviations.
• Direct action, community mutual aid, and historical knowledge are necessary to counter systemic collapse and reaction.
• In matters of public accountability, the state’s contempt for the vulnerable and for justice (as seen in the Epstein case) is both deliberate and deeply sickening.
• Personal empowerment and the reclamation of history—from dragging trolls to organizing diverse coalitions—may provide the only viable resistance.

Transcript

[Andrew Sage]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Guaranteed Human. It's me, Brandon Kyle Goodman, but you can call me Messy mom, because on my podcast, Tell Me Something Messy, my fantastic guests are bringing their mess, like singer songwriter Duran Bernard, suggesting we reinstate adult sleepovers with friends. Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling your. You know what I'm saying? I mean, granted, I might be dope, but, you know, like, listen to Tell Me Something Messy on the iHeartRadio app.

[Garrison Davis]

Apple PODC, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Andrew Sage]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry.

[Garrison Davis]

Of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Robert Evans]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story.

[James Stout]

Of the inner workings of the MSS.

[Robert Evans]

And how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Andrew Sage]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the.

[Garrison Davis]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrew Sage]

When you feel uncomfortable.

[Amanda Nelson]

What do you put on Biggie? You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable.

[Andrew Sage]

Because I want to get confident.

[Amanda Nelson]

This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music Is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. 12 months, 12 areas of your life. Money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Stout]

This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called the red weather. In 1995, my neighbor Anna Trainor disappeared from a commune.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

[Andrew Sage]

So, no, I am not your guru.

[James Stout]

And back then, I lied to everybody.

[Amanda Nelson]

They have had this case for 30 years.

[James Stout]

I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to the Red Weather on the.

[Andrew Sage]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gia Giudice]

Call Zone Media.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions.

[Garrison Davis]

Welcome to It Could Happen Here. I'm Garrison Davis. Amidst attempts by President Trump to seize control of Greenland Last month, during the World Economic Forum, administration officials started posting images of a penguin. On January 23, the White House shared an artificial image of Trump walking hand and flipper alongside a penguin holding an American flag across a snowy tundra towards mountains bearing the flag of Greenland. The caption read, Embrace the penguin. The flags look like poorly photoshopped stock images, while the rest of the image appears to be generated by AI Immediately, this post sparked ridicule across various online platforms based on the fact that there aren't any penguins in Greenland. Erm, penguins don't live in the Northern hemisphere save for zoos in the Galapagos Islands of Ecuador. So haha, the foolish Trump has been bested once again in the arena of facts and logic. Except this White House penguin post was actually in reference to a TikTok meme that was currently going super viral. In mid January, remixed footage from Werner Herzog's Arctic documentary Encounters at the End of the World, featuring a lone penguin breaking off from the flock and marching towards some icy mountains, started spreading around. TikTok synced to an organ cover of L' Amour to Jour, a song which has been adopted by far right anti immigration groups in Europe the past few years. This combination of music and footage soon spread to other short form video platforms like Instagram reels with the featherless subject being dubbed the lonely penguin. On January 20, a more explicitly political version went kinda viral with over 20,000 likes with the addition of a Frederick Nietzsche quote, I know of no better life purpose than to perish in attempting the great and impossible with the caption Save Europe remigration. That same day, an edit with 36,000 likes by the TikTok account epichistory32 captioned do the hard thing played the documentary footage with Herzog's narration overlaid with images of historical figures and pop culture characters like Alexander the Great, Caesar, Joan of Arc, King Richard I, King Baldwin iv, Genghis Khan, Aragorn, Jon Snow, Luke Skywalker and Spider Man. An op ed in Fox News by the daughter of Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy refer to these as quote unquote Western heroes. To quote this op ed in the film, Herzog shows a lone penguin peeling away from the safety of its colony and heading inland towards certain death, according to Herzogen. But the online right saw something else. Users, mostly male, saw the penguin as a powerful rebuke of secular modernity. They interpreted the penguin not as lost, but as a free thinker. To them, he was rejecting the colony. In today's terms, that means rejecting secular postmodern orthodoxy and marching toward a greater purpose. So though Herzog in this documentary refers to this penguin as deranged, as a meme, users identified with the penguin as a symbol of masculine rebellion against what they view as mainstream culture. And the solitary trek up the mountains is a metaphor for the struggle of individual greatness. Clips of men on outdoor adventures and climbing mountains is Zarathustra style with the caption be the penguin spread wildly online, the most popular reaching 4.2 million likes, and other penguin themed videos getting hundreds of thousands of likes. The Herzog penguin meme piggybacked and partially merged with an older right wing penguin based meme video from two years ago of a drag queen asking a kid about boys wearing makeup. The kid responds that boys can't wear makeup. So the drag queen asks the kid who told him that and this confused child looks around and sees a cartoon penguin on the wall, points to it and says, that Penguin over there. 618,000 likes.

[James Stout]

What do you think about men who wear makeup?

[Amanda Nelson]

You can't put it into boys who.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Said.

[Amanda Nelson]

The penguin over there.

[James Stout]

The penguin.

[Garrison Davis]

This video and this figure of the penguin has since been used as a symbol for masculine resistance to the LGBTQ agenda. And this new penguin meme pertains to tap into a uniquely masculine urge, as explained by this tiktoker who racked up 42,000 likes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I hate to be the one to say it, but the penguin didn't make it. But does that mean he died in vain?

[Andrew Sage]

No.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

His life was not a tragedy. It was an inspiration.

[James Stout]

He left a legacy most of us could only hope for. It would be easy to quote Nietzsche.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Here, but that wouldn't do it justice.

[James Stout]

The penguin spoke to something inside all of us men.

[Andrew Sage]

A desire for more, to push our.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Limits and see what we're truly made of. Sometimes our purpose is the impact that we leave behind.

[Garrison Davis]

On January 23, the Department of War Rapid Response account posted be a Warrior. Embrace the Penguin with an AI generated image of five men wearing the uniform of each military branch walking towards the mountains alongside a penguin. Secretary Kennedy posted a Make America Healthy Again edit of the penguin meme with the organ music over an AI video of RFK Jr. And a penguin walking to the mountains. On screen text reads the mainstream made us sick. Choose the healthier path. The Health and Human Services government account quote tweeted this video with the caption locking in after watching that penguin edit unquote. Soy occupied government. An anti immigration advocacy account created a viral AI image of a large, evidently prosperous colony of penguins gathered under the banner of multiculturalism. It reads that as a giant banner juxtaposed to a lone penguin facing the mountains and a sign reading Re Migration Now. Across the pond, the London mayoral candidate for the far right Reform Party in the uk, Lila Cunningham, copied Trump's version of the penguin meme with an artificial image of her holding hands with a penguin walking towards some snowy mountains surrounding the Tower Bridge in London. The caption reads, choose a new path for London before it's too late. The last penguin post we'll consider is a video edit from the Department of Homeland Security. It starts like many of the viral TikTok and reels videos with footage and narration from Herzog's documentary, which I will finally play here. But one of them caught our eye.

[James Stout]

The one in the center. He would neither go towards the feeding.

[Robert Evans]

Grounds at the edge of the ice.

[Andrew Sage]

Nor return to the colony.

[James Stout]

Shortly afterwards we saw him heading straight towards the mountains some 70km away.

[Andrew Sage]

Dr. Ainley explained that even if he.

[James Stout]

Caught him and brought him back to the colony, he would immediately head right back for the mountains. But why?

[Garrison Davis]

After the narration cuts out, the music continues as a fan cam style montage plays Trump military helicopters, SWAT style home raids and ice and border patrol arresting people. The video is captioned Americans have always known why. In response to Herzog's query, this post from the DHS asserts that part of the essence of America is breaking away from the herd and forging your own path. Those who don't understand Trump's desire to control Greenland at the risk of further damaging our geopolitical standing just suffer from herd mentality and will never be strong enough to take the kind of risks that are core to the existence of this country. On January 24th, the White House posted the penguin does not concern himself with the opinions of those who cannot comprehend. For Trump, Venezuela, Greenland imperial expansion is an existential mission to achieve some mythic frontier greatness. And only true Americans can understand why. The Fox News Penguin op ed by Christian nationalist Sean Duffy's daughter Wow, that's a nightmare. Sentence reads quote For Trump, the penguin is an apt symbol for the President's decade long fight against the radical left. Everything Trump does is opposed by the global power brokers. Even the President's push to obtain Greenland has been fanatically opposed by hysterical European elites. America was built by penguins, and by that I mean rebels, pilgrims, frontier men and women, conquistadores and cowboys. We are a nation founded by risk takers who left the colony for the mountains. We are descended from men who suffered and died to carve civilization out of wilderness. It is our inheritance. Now, what this DHS penguin video doesn't include, but has already been alluded to by some of the other videos I've played, is the actual context of this lone bird's journey and its sad fate. We will return to discuss penguin insanity after this ad break.

[James Stout]

We're back.

[Garrison Davis]

Though the 2026 version of the penguin meme was dubbed the Lonely Penguin, earlier meme videos of this documentary footage from years past carried the titles Deranged Penguin or Nihilist Penguin. Before the footage of this lone penguin plays in the documentary, Herzog asks a penguin expert if they can experience insanity.

[James Stout]

Is there such thing as insanity among penguins? I try to avoid the definition of insanity or derangement. I don't mean that a penguin might believe he or she is lending Napoleon.

[Andrew Sage]

Bonaparte, but could they just go crazy.

[James Stout]

Because they've had enough of their colony? Well, I've never seen a penguin bashing its head against a rock. They do get disoriented. They end up in places they shouldn't be, long way from the ocean.

[Garrison Davis]

The political invocations of this footage largely ignore Werner Herzog's own speculation on why the penguin is marching towards the mountains in the far off distance and its inevitable fate.

[Andrew Sage]

One of these disoriented or deranged penguins.

[Garrison Davis]

Showed up at the New harbor diving.

[James Stout]

Camp, already some 80km away from where it should be. And here he's heading off into the interior of the vast continent. With 5,000km ahead of him, he's heading towards certain death.

[Garrison Davis]

The penguin is not the Ubermensch. The penguin will not achieve individual greatness at the summit of the mountain because it's never going to get there. As friend of the pod, Dan Olson so eloquently put it, the penguin is going to die. Though the penguin does not bash its head on a rock, this separation from society is still an act of suicide. The deranged penguin has literally turned its back on food, water, shelter and the colony to die, wandering towards mountains that it will never reach. The Trump administration's embrace of this suicidal penguin as a that's literally me figure is a shockingly open display of fascism's relation to the death drive. It's just so naked to make your mascot a symbol of suicidal defiance against perceived cultural norms. They're doing a first is tragedy twice as farce for fascist death emblems. The Nazis get the skull, we get a fucking penguin. But the penguin is not the first modern American suicidal folk hero. The killdozer rampage of public destruction which ended in the suicide of the perpetrator, has been a mascot for the libertarian right for over two decades. And in 2018, a 28 year old airport ground service agent named Richard Russell hijacked an empty plane at Sea Tac to fly over Mount Rainier before killing himself by purposefully crashing the plane. Very similar to Herzog's deranged Penguin, Russell left behind a wife of six years, but became a sort of nihilistic folk hero to overly online young men, especially among the online far right on places like 4chan and Telegram, where he was dubbed Sky King. Last August, a congressional Republican from Georgia, Mike Collins, who serves on the Republican Transportation Committee, posted a glowing multi paragraph memorial for Richard Russell on the anniversary of his suicide, signing off the message with Rest in peace, Sky King. But the direct identification of the Trump administration with a suicidal Penguin is a step farther. The fascist appetite for death is well understood, but the death drive represents a usually subconscious desire to not only harm or kill others, but ultimately yourself, an attempt to ease the tensions driving social life by returning to a prior inorganic state. This desire can be channeled through the politics of fascism, which allow for violent paranoid manifestations of repressed internal contradictions which attempt to be resolved through death. But fascism itself is a contradiction between a primitive war machine and a stable state apparatus, and the way that tension is released is also self destruction. In the second volume of Capitalism and Schizophrenia, A Thousand Plateaus, by philosopher Gilles Deleuze and psychoanalyst Felix Guattari, they discuss the ways in which fascism and totalitarianism differ. They write that totalitarianism is a state affair made up of material components that over manage society. Even in the case of a military dictatorship, the it is a state army, not a war machine, that takes power and elevates the state to the totalitarian stage. Totalitarianism is quintessentially conservative. Fascism, on the other hand, involves a war machine. When fascism builds itself a totalitarian state, it is not in the sense of a state army taking power, but of a war machine taking over the state. This analysis from Deleuze and Guattari is building off of an essay by the French writer Paul Virilio called the Suicidal State, where Virilio argues that in fascism the state is far less totalitarian than it is suicidal, an evolution of the state that no longer pretends to be guided internally by reason and progress, but rather non progress and terror, founded on the repulsion and fear of all development in this civil domain. This repulsion and fear were manifested in the accelerated destruction of state institutions during the first few months of Trump's second term and Doge's scorched earth approach to slashing government agencies, Virilio writes that during the disappearance of public service, quote infrastructures of service are reduced as the wiretaps of the Vermacht are restored. Colonial geometry of decolonialization, unquote. So as the federal government rescinds public services, the everyday presence of the federal government is reduced to masked armed agents in the streets disappearing our neighbors and shooting civilians, while the President fights in court for the ability to deploy the military against American citizens within our own territory. During the tension of total war or total peace versus the system expands and reproduces itself. A material process without an end, but no longer without limits. To quote the Brazilian philosopher Vladimir Svatli, the suicide state, quote, is not just a manager of death. It is rather the ongoing agent of its own catastrophe, the maker of its own explosion. To be more precise, this new state mixes the death management of entire sectors of its own population with an ongoing and risky flirtation with its own self destruction. For the idea of the suicidal state emerges as this new mode of governing to solve the crisis of post war liberalism in Germany after World War I, as well as risked by the United States after each of our many wars. Quote One of the keys to the present situation is on one side, the overly informed status of experts of the system, and on the other, the under informed status of all those who are supposedly thinking outside of it. Unquote. Verlio says that the experts no longer know how to use their hoards of information except to gain money and status by continually adding to their body of work. Meanwhile, the outsiders produce the political and cultural undercurrent of modern folklore and ordinary life. But this limp dichotomy cannot last for very long on its own. So Virilio proposes the new emergence of a third category of people who make use of information for an end, the ultimate end. The directors of the suicidal state, while the outsiders, ideologues and artists simply try to simulate catharsis. Quote by contrast, the third category, the suicidal state itself, produces a feeling for the real better it aims to retain the exclusivity of its production. This feeling is a contempt for and a hatred of the everyday. To paraphrase, the fascist project, exploits man's alienation from his environment through pollution, economic insecurity, emotional insecurity, desocialization, and seeks to replace any legitimate grievance he has with society with a more repulsive and expressive force, the fear of society, which is superimposed on a new military schema of total war and internal invasion, all towards a nihilistic end of dropping the bomb on ourselves. The oscillation of external and internal destruction epitomized by the death drive is mirrored by the imperial boomerang, where the violence of colonial expansion is forced to return to its homeland. Once home, the drive remains, resulting in a war on society directly or through other means. But this is a war on its own people, or as Trump would say, the enemy within. To quote a paragraph from A Thousand Plateaus, so called total war seems less a state undertaking than an undertaking of a war machine that appropriates the state and channels it into a flow of absolute war whose only possible outcome is the suicide of the state itself. There is in fascism a realized nihilism. Unlike the totalitarian state, which does its utmost to seal all possible lines of escape, fascism is constructed on an intense line of escape, which it transforms into a line of pure destruction and abolition. It is curious that from the very beginning the Nazis announced to Germany what they were bringing at once. Wedding bells and death, including their own death and the death of the Germans. They thought they would perish, but that their undertaking would be resumed all across Europe, all over the world, throughout the solar system. And the people cheered, not because they did not understand, but because they wanted that death through the death of others. Like a will to wager everything, you have every hand to stake your own death against the death of others. Unquote. In A Thousand Plateaus, Deleuze and Guattari quote an excerpt from Klaus Mann's 1936 novel Mephisto, which contains fascist speeches and ordinary conversations from Nazi Germany. The quote they include is eerily similar to the visuals of Trump as the suicidal Penguin quote. Heroism was something that was being ruled out of our lives. In reality, we are not marching forward, we are reeling, staggering. Our beloved Fuhrer is dragging us toward the shades of darkness and everlasting nothingness. How can we poets who have a special affinity for darkness and lower depths not admire him, unquote. Deleuze and Guattari then write, suicide is presented not as a punishment, but as the crowning glory of the death of others. The insufficiency of economic and political definitions of fascism does not simply imply a need to tack on vague so called ideological determinations. We prefer to inquiry into the precise formation of Nazi statements, which are just as much in evidence in politics and economics as in the most absurd of conversations. They always contain the stupid and repugnant cry, long live death. Even at the economic level, where the arms expansion replaces growth in consumption and where investment veers from the means of production toward the means of pure destruction, unquote. Virilio calls this a psychosis which governs its entire politics of production. And he writes that the replacement of the American industries of the automobile and the cinema with the military industrial complex does not involve a rational, functional or useful choice, but rather entirely psychological or rather psychopathological. It stems from contempt for an abandonment of productive rapport with the milieu. Every investment is made to escape from it, unquote. For contemporary reference, go check out the stock price of Palantir. And on the larger economic and international level, Trump's tariffs, his trade wars and the self destruction of the United States geopolitical standing are all expressions of this suicidal state in action. The state of total war, where the economy of war has become the economy of peace, is facilitated by a transformation in the American sense of freedom, where the free as a subject, as in the land of the free, is no longer properly spoken of. As a citizen. He is an anonymous organism without culture, without society and without memory. This figure has no historical precedent. Assistance has become survival, non assistance a condemnation to death. All liberation henceforth has for him invariably the appearance of death, of the end, suicide or murder, unquote. This sort of freedom from social services, freedom from the state, freedom from assistance as a movement of the death drive also provides insight into people's willingness to and even desire to vote against their own material interests, especially when their political struggle has turned against society itself. Only in transformation of ordinary social life into the horrific in the minds of the populace can the fascist find their surest means of governing. The legitimization of his politics and military strategies, and right up to the end, far from weakening the repulsive nature of his powers, the ruins, the horrors, the crimes, the chaos of total war will generally only increase in scope. In Hitler's 1945 telegram 71 he writes, if the war is lost, may the nation perish. Here Hitler decides to join forces with his enemies in order to complete the destruction of his own people by obliterating the last remaining sources of its life support system, civil reserves of every kind, potable water, fuel, provisions. This is the normal outcome of the politics of dialectical retreat from the man who had written, the idea of protection haunts and fulfills life, unquote. Fascism hijacks the mechanism of evolutionary and revolutionary escape and reverts it into a mechanism of destruction. Instead of resolving crises, it produces constant crisis for it to feed off of, forming as Deleuze and Guattari say, a war machine instead of resonating in a state apparatus, a war machine that no longer had anything but war as its object and would rather annihilate its own servants than stop the destruction. To quote a thousand plateaus. This is war not for conquest or revolution, but war as its own end. The hollowing out of public institutions and social services, the divestment from the milieu of life leads people to turn towards the suicidal state as the only force of movement resting on, as Ferio says, the advanced exploitation of our instincts for death. A new totalitarian state defined by the constant ascent of statistics toward planetary death. Crime and madness will no longer be the defects. The madman and the assassin are the legitimate children engendered and recognized by the suicidal state. And what phenomenon has risen in the United States the past few years? The conspiracy theorist and the assassin. The embrace of total war and the campaign of civil fear necessitates a break from sanity and the bizarre strangeness of means that inevitably result in in a self destructive end. Virilio claims there is an insanity at the heart of the fascist project. The imaginary potential of the fascist state arises. Quote from a finished world where insanity has become the goal of order, the very product of organization, unquote. There's a quote from Goebbels to one of his aides, Prince Frederick Christian. The world in which Hitler moves is a world of absolute fate. A world in which even success makes no sense. It's not a mistake that the White House has cast itself as a lost penguin marching to its own death. They know the absurdity of their replies. They know the world looks upon them as insane. They know that they'll never reach the make America great again mountain. The self destruction ice, the tariffs, the broken treaties are not for any greater purpose. The means are the end. This is total war. The psychological purpose of which is terror, which for the fascist is synonymous with peace. But let's not forget how Hitler and Goebbels finally resolved their contradictions.

[Andrew Sage]

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[James Stout]

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[Andrew Sage]

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[James Stout]

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[Garrison Davis]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about.

[Amanda Nelson]

Sorority Life, the good, the bad, and.

[Gia Giudice]

The sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Kessler.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Rush, the recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood, or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, Rush chairs and ritual keepers.

[Garrison Davis]

Some call it the best time of.

[Gia Giudice]

Their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Amanda Nelson]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses? From Alpha to Omega?

[Gia Giudice]

We're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm Brandon Kyle Goodman, the host of the Tell Me Something Messy podcast. I wanted to create a safe, comfy.

[Andrew Sage]

Place for all of us to talk.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

About sex, relationships, and what it means to be human.

[Andrew Sage]

And, baby, my fantastic guests are bringing their mess to share with the class.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like singer, songwriter Duran Bernard, suggesting we.

[Andrew Sage]

Reinstate adult sleepovers with friends.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling you. You know what I'm saying?

[James Stout]

I don't want you.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Granted, I might be doing. But, you know, like. And I think it's important for those examples of that of us just being gentle with one another because the world and the people in it already finding brand new ways to whip our ass every single day, 1,000%. So the least we could do is make strides to handle each other in a way that is a bit more.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, with.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's. That's with care and a bit more mindful. Listen to Tell Me Something Messy on.

[Garrison Davis]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Andrew Sage]

So Trump is kind of moving like a bull in a china shop, or rather a bull in a missile shop. You know, I think that's a More apt analogy. The. The system of the government wasn't exactly benign beforehand, you know.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

I think it really needs to click, people, that Trump is not truly exceptional.

[James Stout]

Mm.

[Andrew Sage]

Rather, he's a product of the normal that people seem to be yearning for.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, and the other issues we're dealing with, too.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I think, like, this is the crux of what comes next. Right. It's like we have this, like, I don't want to disparage people. We have this tendency in American politics, this liberal tendency, progressive liberal tendency even, to think that, like, basically things have been magnificent until the first week of November in 2016. Right. That America was progressing on this, like, linear pathway towards total equality and justice for all. And that what's happening now is an aberration. It's the idea that there's a few individuals conspiring, rather that there is a system which inherently creates interests which are opposed to our own, I guess.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, exactly. It's like all of these, These. These problems the genocides were waging long before Trump came into power. You know, the economic strains people are feeling today that people have been feeling for decades, for their entire lives. You know, the climate crisis that has only worsened as time has gone on. You know, all of this is a product of that normal, of that pre Trump normal. And I still hear people asking, you know, when are things going to go back to normal? When can we settle down? When will we go back onto the track of normalcy? And. Well, if you're listening to this podcast, I think you already know what time it is. This is. It could happen here. I'm Andrew Sage and I'm joined by.

[James Stout]

It's James again here to talk about the new normal.

[Andrew Sage]

All right, and welcome.

[James Stout]

Thank you.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, the new normal, the ever shifting normal.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Andrew Sage]

The phantom of normal. And why it is that it's really not coming back and why normalcy as a concept is actually pretty weird. So part of. I think what feeds into this notion of normal is this myth of progress that people are obsessed with. You know, recently I read this book, Progress by Samuel Miller McDonald, and I would like to do a review of it at some point for the podcast. But the short of it is that it gets into just how pervasive this concept of progress is in kind of tripping people up and keeping us serving systems that don't serve us. You know, you mentioned progressives earlier, and, you know, even that notion, I think, of being a progressive, he kind of calls that into question in the course of the book, going from ancient times, talking About a religious sense of a promised land to the sort of modern sense of a secular or technological progressive improvement or social progressive improvement. He identifies it as a story and a story that's so powerful that it acts like a sedative. You know, we don't engage with the degree in reality the world around us because we're wrapped up in this all powerful faith. We're bound to progress, that progress is linear, that we are ever striving forward, you know.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

And we point to examples of things like social progress. But as he quotes in the book, it's like what Malcolm X said, you know, if I stick a knife into you and I only pull it out 3 inches, that's not progress. Pull it out 6 inches, that's not progress. 9 inches, that's not progress. Progress would be, you know, removing the knife completely and mending the wound. But I would take it a step further and say that is it really progress to go back to a state that already was. Is it progress to abolish slavery when there was a time when slavery did not exist? You know, going back to a previous default state is not necessarily contributing to the same thing with patriarchy. You know, patriarchy did not always exist. Eroding and abolishing the patriarchy, reaching a point where the limitations placed on women are no longer there. Can we call that progress or is it just rectifying a previously imposed state? And so these are some of the questions he grapples with. And there's also, of course, the techno utopian promise of, you know, we can end self driving cars any minute, you know, fusion, energy, AI, ending work forever. You know, all these things are blind to the social or ecological reality of collapse. But where else would you say you might see this myth showing up in politics? I think I covered a good few, but I may be missing something.

[James Stout]

Yeah, Like, I mean, it's almost in everything, right. Like it's a fundamental myth of liberal capitalism, I guess. Like it also underlies a certain logic of colonialism. Right. The idea that like progress towards a neoliberal state is this can be like the logic of explicit or less explicit colonialism, I guess. But like you, you see it there too, right? Like, like you see it in the, the sort of, you see a lot in 19th century. It's, it's very explicit. The idea to uplift, civilize and Christianize our little brown brothers.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, the civilizing mission.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The white man's burden and these things that like, became very, very en vogue in the late 19th, early 20th century. I suppose you see it a lot there too, right?

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah. This whole notion, I think that it really starts with the concept of civilization. When you have that civilized other divide, that binary of the civilized and the barbarian, or the civilized and the savage, and how that gets turned into this mission as civilization expands, that you bring those savage peoples into the fold and you slowly bring them up, make them upright men and closer to being human than the state that they were in previously. And the whole narrative around that is what has, as it has evolved with time, led to the situation that we're in now.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

And there's this idea as well that even when there are these ruptures in normal, that everything will go back to its right place. But as I've heard people say, you know, history is a series of unprecedented things. You know, and one of the unprecedented things in history that I wish people would realize is not ever gonna come back is that sort of post war economic boom, you know, that 1950 era growth and excess that has become the default state that many people are striving to return to, when in reality something like that is a historical anomaly driven by artificially cheap and abundant energy.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, the normal that people are talking about sometimes is just this 50 to 70 year fossil fuel binge, a binge that we are reaching the end of and I think a fantasy to believe that we can replicate for all time.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Right?

[James Stout]

Yeah. But it's the time that so much of the like the world that we exist in was created. Right. And like people almost see themselves as like a different species from human beings in the 19th century. Right?

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

They can't conceive of society that way.

[Andrew Sage]

Exactly, exactly. And it's something that I've been dwelling on because what a time to be alive, to see personal cause being so ubiquitous. But the ubiquity of personal cause is an aberration. It's a historical aberration. It's not one that is likely to be sustainable in the long term. You know, even if there are electric cars taking the place of gas powered vehicles and we run out of gas, oil, even the materials necessary to produce electric cars are not always going to be around. They're not always going to exist. We can't supplement each and every individual person with a car for all of time, you know.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

So many of the rare earth minerals that are again quite rare, we've spent them on things that may serve a novelty or an interest in the short term, but it's not something that we can maintain forever. I hear people talking about this AI bubble and it is in the sense of the financial markets, the financial aspect of AI and how it's affecting our perception of the economy and whether that bubble is going to boost economically. But I'm more interested in the AI bubble in the sense that how long can this AI everywhere thing persist when the material is necessary to maintain it because it is material, despite the sort of cloud marketing that gets associated with it? How long until we run out of those materials, until those material needs cannot be sustained?

[James Stout]

Yeah, we keep shifting. Not like the goalposts, but like the terrain. Right. Like you know, we, okay, well we've run out of fossil fuels, so that's fine. We will do electric. Okay. We, you know, the electric actually relies on rare earths. Well, that's fine. We'll find a different thing to make, to make batteries out of. Rather than acknowledging that like we've created.

[Andrew Sage]

A system or we'll just go to space.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And trash another planet for another few hundred years. You know, when you're driving a truck and you have a lot of stuff in it and it's hitting the end of the rev counter, you know, like you're trying to pass someone, it's bouncing, it's in the red zone. Like we've been running in the red zone certainly for most of this century, you know, since the Industrial Revolution or certainly since the end of the second World War. And like sustainability is a phrase that's been co opted, but like it's just not possible to keep doing it.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, I mean it's really an anomaly, a blip in our timeline, I would say. And I think ruptures in that normalcy, like the rupture we're experiencing now provides an opportunity for us to, you know, take an exit ramp to kind of control the transition, to control our descent. But instead, you know, it seems like we were just rapidly moving towards the more forceful transition, the transition made so by the laws of physics. And that transition I don't think will be nearly as pleasant as it could be. You know, that's why a lot of people call it collapse. And that transition is being delayed currently. Both the collapse of the material resources and also the collapse of the financial economic system. That stuff has been delayed by rent seeking, by new frontiers of exploitation, by ramping up theft in parts of the world that were not as pillaged as other parts of the world, or ramping up surveillance and violence to make it harder to resist. But eventually it's gonna hit, you know, and I hate that it makes me sound like A second coming of Jesus conspiracist or something like that. Just like, oh, yeah, it's coming, it's coming, you know, like. Like. Like I'm a prophet screaming into the. Into the streets. But, you know, it may not be some kind of prophesied end times, but we are approaching that point, you know, where that sort of narrative of economic growth going back to normal, you know, there's this big group project of making the rich richer because that rise in tide will lift all boats. You know, this. This story that everybody wins, that nobody will have to lose anything because the pie will just keep getting bigger. It has to come to an end.

[James Stout]

It's amazing how long it's lasted, right. Like, certain group of society's been able to make the rest of society believe that the pie will just keep getting bigger when the pie has got smaller for most people, certainly for the last few decades, but arguably lives have become worse for us since the Industrial revolution in some ways.

[Andrew Sage]

Right, exactly. And people will point to improvements in health and sanitation. Sure. You can have improvements in health and sanitation without all this other baggage, though.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, or you can have improvements in literacy without literally poisoning our fresh water and bleaching our oceans and killing off biodiversity by the millions of species.

[James Stout]

Yeah. It's not a package deal. Right. Like, we can have vaccination against diseases without having Superfund sites. We didn't need one to make the other. It's not a. Like this way or the Dark Ages.

[Andrew Sage]

Exactly, exactly. For example, all London had to do. I mean, I'm oversimplifying, but all London had to do was stop dumping their sewage in the Thames.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a remarkable. It's not that hard. But, like, just look at the disposal of hazardous waste and the way that rather than being like, huh, maybe we should stop making waste that will be hazardous for centuries, for the better part of a hundred years, we've just been finding somewhere else to put it.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, just keep. Just keep dumping it.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

Even as a child, I was like, what are we supposed to do with all these mountains are garbage. Like. Like, are we just gonna keep on piling it up until we reach the moon?

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I mean.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it's like in San Diego, they dump. Do you dump it in the bay? There's a whole part of our bay which used to be a landfill site. And, like, I like to free dive. Sometimes I'll just be practicing or diving in the bay or whatever, and, like, you'll dive down and be like, the fuck is a barbecue grill doing on the bottom of the ocean?

[Andrew Sage]

Jeez.

[James Stout]

And people just continue to chuck shit into the bay.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Like, even though we have another landfill, what we put it now.

[Andrew Sage]

No, but you see, James, it's like that barbecue grill was $7 on Temu.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You can't pass up that deal, you know?

[James Stout]

Yeah. And then when it turns out to be absolute crap, it will be on our planet for longer than any of us. But we've created a system where there's no disincentive to buy a TEMU barbecue grill, use it once, and then throw it into the bay. And we can't see that that's a problem.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, yeah. Because of how the system is set up. You have to think about, wait a second, why is a barbecue grill $7? You know, who is suffering so that this barbecue grill will be $7.

[James Stout]

Yeah, right. Because we're so detached from that. Right. Like, despite being so connected, we're also so far away from the people who their misery is a consequence of our consumption or of the system, which makes our consumption the way it is.

[Andrew Sage]

Exactly. And you know, instead of thinking about how we can make society resilient, how we can reasonably and ethically and with consideration for seven generations, use the resources that we have, and without endless throughput, our leaders continue to chase growth. They continue to chase progress perpetually. Like a cancer.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, and everybody's seeing the consequences at this point. The work situation is getting worse because these platforms, these employers are finding ways to game the labor laws. You know, we're seeing shrink in margins in certain sectors. Because when you rely on growth, when that growth comes to an end, there's nowhere else to grow. You have to squeeze what there is. What's the phrase? Squeeze blood out of a stone.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, you have to force overwork. You have to initiate existing services so that you can extract more subscriptions, more payments, more upgrades, whatever the case may be. The livability of entire cities has been wiped out because, you know, you have Airbnb and the private companies hauling out something as basic as housing.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

For all. And so the pressures to keep the whole machine running just outweighs any long term considerations. But like I keep saying, this normal was never sustainable. I will say, though, when we criticize the system and we call it out and we talk about how these leaders are pushing things in a certain direction. They are. But at the same time, it's easy to fall into this notion that they are manipulating the whole thing. You know, that they manage the system in its Entirety. It's tempting to see the system as coherent, you know, to act like it's all piloted by one individual or group.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

As some wise or malevolent parental figure. And, you know, these institutions, they all rely to varying degrees under the appearance of competence. Right. But I think what Recent Times has revealed is that things are a lot messier than that, that political leaders know that they don't know, but won't admit that they don't know or they don't know that they don't know. And in either case, they are pretending or believing that they have this grip on things that they can anticipate and smooth out the shocks to the sister. You know, there are those who think that if they share the honest truth that they could trigger panic in the populace. So they think they're doing something brave and benevolent by not giving people all the information they need. And worse yet, they fear that by sharing all the information that's needed to make accurate decisions, that they might lose investments, they might lose investors, that the economy will take a hit as reserved. That's why you have situations where, like when the Texas grid failed in 2021, that the officials were insisting that it was stable.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

Until it wasn't, you know, or for the years that UK has had its water, its water infrastructure issues, continues to claim that things are under control and sewage was still getting into people's rivers.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Like. Like I think a lot about Flint, Michigan, where the water that people have to drink to survive is killing them. And this has been happening, we've known about it for a decade and there have been a series of politicians from both parties who have just been like, yeah, no, don't worry, we've got this cupboard and like that. We fundamentally have not got this cupboard.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

But the machine is moving so fast that no one person can stop and turn it around because the machine will just bulldoze them.

[Andrew Sage]

Yep. It's not as steady as and stable as it puts forward. You know, in fact, that whole image of the system as coherent, as steady, as stable, I think it also serves to keep us from defying it.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, because we get this sense that, yeah, this is this like this behemoth, this all powerful Lovecraftian entity that us male individuals can't really challenge when there are things that we can do directly to throw, you know, spokes in the wheel, if that's the expression. No, it's something in the spokes.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Spanner stick in the spokes, maybe.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, sure, let's go that would you say there was like a particular moment when you realized that nobody actually knew what they were doing, though?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

I'm trying to think if it was.

[James Stout]

Like a momental recognition for me or like a sort of gradual one. You know, I think a few of the times, like you see it a lot when, when you travel more. Right. Because the perception that like we are helping here, we've got this under control. Like, I think with immigration, it's a great example actually.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Like, so I've obviously spent a lot of time with immigrants. I think you see this. I remember in 2018 we had the migrant caravan.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Like there have been many migrant caravans. This one was just coincided with a midterm in a way that allowed it to become like a political football. And the American government is like, we are stopping them at the border so we can check if everyone's okay. And the government in Mexico is like, well, we are taking care of them. And you get there and you're like, fuck, like these people haven't had water today. And at that point, you know, I was already sort of predisposed to thinking that perhaps the state didn't have all the answers. And to be clear, the Mexican state did a lot more than the US State in this instance and provided these people with a place to be, which it would have been much worse if they hadn't had that. But like, it was just this realization. I was with a few friends, all of us happened at the time to be like full time bicycle people. So we didn't have jobs that needed us to be like in a place at 9am so that realization that like, if these people are going to get water today, it's going to be because we go to Costco and buy all the water bottles and then we ride back whilst slowly destroying the suspension of this pickup truck because we've got so much weight in it and give them out because no one else is going to. There's this whole world of NGOs and governments and states and didn't matter. Right. These people still didn't have water.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah. There's a lot of room for direct action still.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

And the plot was that you're not as competent as they may at first glance appear. In other words, if they say they have everything under control, don't believe them.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

I think also that instability within the system is part of it, you know, it's part of how it works. It's part of what's necessary for it to keep going. The competitive churn of the capitalist Markets, the shifts of industries that, you know, uproot people's lives. Just part of how the system operates. You know, the booms and busts in real estate, they all are ways for the powers that be to expand their wealth in some ways expand their reach in certain territories. And people, for the most part, just go along with it. You know, daily life is complex as it is, without having to grapple with the full scale of all the global issues. You know, the following, the leader. Just going along with what they say, it does give you some psychological breathing room. You know, it's hard to grapple with the existential threats that we face. I don't have time to. In many cases.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Andrew Sage]

Especially when you have an administrative strategy that involves flooding the Zone with so much mess, with so much drama, with so many different controversies and lies and incidents, that it feels like the best thing to do is just throw your hands up and give up. And then I'm speaking both from the perspective of what I'm observing in the Trinidadian government and what I'm observing in the American government, but I see this attitude of arrogance, callousness, and corruption. It's like they're not even trying to maintain a veneer of legitimacy or intelligence or anything like that, so at least go through the motions to provide the things that it claims it's necessary to provide, you know, but they're feeling that even that. And they're so cocky about it. Yeah, they're so careless about it, too. So they're smiling in your face and lying to you.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, people do see what's happening. They're responding in a couple different ways. You know, they. They panic, of course, or they fall into conspiracies, or they deny that there is an actual problem. They continue to insist that everything is normal, that everything is fine. If they double down, they hustle harder, they consume more, they carry on as if nothing's wrong. And there are those who see that something's wrong, but they see everybody else carrying on as if everything is fine. And so they go along as well, you know? Or there are people, of course, who disengage, who are burnt out, who are numb, who are just drifting or going through the motions, but only a portion have turned to challenge the concept of normal itself. Whether it is that they're experimenting with simpler living, developing some program for survival, some strategy, either for themselves, for their household, or for their community, engaging in mutual support. And of course, this is only a portion of the population, because many of us, like fish in water, you know, we can't really recognize the socioeconomic structure that we are within. It's hard to recognize what you are immersed in as a thing itself. And it's only really in seeing and reading about alternatives that you get a glimpse of this normalcy and question it. To realize the system is natural or inevitable, there's an aberration destined to decline, no matter how much we want to believe otherwise. That the script of working, consuming, careering, accumulating property and all is a normal. That is actually kind of weird. You know, like it's strange that an entire society is dependent upon globe spanning supply chains, volatile markets and oriented entirely around the quarterly earnings of elites. You know, it's strange that whiteness, maleness, cisheteroness, evilness are treated as the default, the starter kit, even though only a fraction of humanity fits in any one of those moulds, let alone the combination of all of them. You know, it's strange that normal is so narrowly conformist. Those who don't conform are marginalized. It's strange that normal means an illusion of independence that disguises the webs you will always rely on that you can claim to be independent and say yeah, well I just bought that $7 grill off Temun and not think about the well of relationships that brought that $7 Temu grill to your doorstep and eventually to the landfill. You get to feel self sufficient while the system hides the labour, the ecosystems, logistics and the people holding you up.

[James Stout]

I'm just thinking now about people whose whole thing is being like homesteaders, but their homesteading is in itself a performance for the global supply or the global market for distracting or entertainment or whatever you want to call it. Right. And they do not exist outside of those supply chains. They are doing this performance of independence because they are so co dependent. They exist to generate revenue off affiliate links or however influencers make money, sponsorships.

[Andrew Sage]

Oh yeah. Oh, you talk about the influencers.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah. Like there's a guy who I remember like a year ago I. Because I'm like, I don't know, broken inside. I got into an argument with someone on x dot com.

[Andrew Sage]

Oh no.

[James Stout]

Yeah, this guy was like posing as a homesteader and like, you know, I grew up on a farm, right? Like I've spent lots of my life around like domestic animals and around domestic. I know how to fix things. I know what tools look like when you use them. And this guy was very clearly just posing a series of photos. It just really like, I don't know why that particularly threw me for a loop. Right. But like the idea that this guy's performing. Performing independence for a system he himself is reinforcing, it was just such a strange thing to understand.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah. A system he's dependent on.

[James Stout]

Yeah, exactly. A system he's entirely dependent on, more so than most of us even. Right. He makes nothing other than photographs that people look at on their phones. He makes no tangible product. At least if you're. You could be a cabinet maker. Yeah. You install kitchens for rich people, but you know how to make things with your hands. This guy just gets a saw that looks like it hadn't been used since the Edwardian era and stands around for photos next to a log in the same breath. I guess that I condemn that. I feel like the way that we deal with the end of this is the same way that we help each other get through the middle of this and the collapse of it. Right. I've seen people do mutual aid with such scarce resources and manage to make such amazing things, both in terms of physical objects and in terms of these beautiful things we do for each other with so little. And, like, the ingenuity that's still there. It's not like people have forgotten how to exist without temu. Right. But we just haven't created a way, a situation where we have to. And in mutual aid spaces, I sometimes feel like we already have the solution to this, which is to depend on and care for each other. It's just that we need that to be the way we do everything, not just some stuff.

[Andrew Sage]

Exactly, exactly. You know, the whole homesteading fantasy is this very comforting illusion and fiction, in my view. Because if we're talking about going back to the land, people who live on the land, who live off of the land, they did so in community.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Andrew Sage]

You know, very, very, very, very rarely did someone live entirely by themselves without contact with anyone else. Because you can't be an ax maker and a carpenter and a cook and, you know, a farmer and a herder and all these different things, all of these different rules. A medicine maker, all these different things at the same time. That is why we as a species have survived and succeeded because we are able to share our skills with others and, you know, collectively accomplish more than the sum of our parts.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it's a fantasy. I was recently in a place called Chaco Canyon. I don't know if you've. If you're familiar with Chaco Canyon at all. No, but there's this idea, I think, that, like, pre the arrival of capitalism, that's how indigenous people lived. And it's just not like, like, you know, this was a large, thriving community. I'm interested in Chaco Canyon because I'm interested in what you're talking about. Like a society which consumed at an unsustainable level and then collapsed. And what came out of it, but what came out of it is what kept the working class people in that society alive throughout it, which is helping each other.

[Robert Evans]

Right?

[James Stout]

Like, yeah, sure, people had these little plots where they. Where they grew grain, but also, like, by doing their ceremonies, by coming together in community, they had something which could sustain them even when the economic reality completely changed for them. And it's like, it's that part that people forget, right? They think they can. Yeah, they think they can grow their own food. Yeah, you can. But when you need a new plow, what are you gonna do? You gonna buy a forge on Temu? You know, like, it's so detached from the way anyone has ever lived.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, it is. And it cannot last. And me personally, I would rather not wait until supply chains break down completely and storms wipe the slate and blackouts cut all communication. And I would rather wait for those things to create and sustain those networks of dependence, networks of interdependence, those local networks of aid and cultural practice and, you know, meeting of mutual needs. There's a saying that the sort of hustle bros would say that your network is your net worth. And to that I must concur. You know, the community support and the shared resources are going to matter a lot more than your personal purchasing power. Being part of something is emotionally easier than carrying everything alone. They matter now, and they'll matter even more in the future as crisis makes the invisible all too visible. The normal that we remember is an illusion, but once you've seen it, you cannot unsee. I think the departure from normal is an opportunity or chance to make something better, to be adaptable to the shocks that come with courage and with clarity. And I hope that this conversation is able to put to words what I'm sure that I'm not alone in feeling. That's all from me today. All power to all the people. Peace. Everyone needs to take care of their mental health. Even running back Bijon Robinson.

[Garrison Davis]

When I'm on the field and feeling.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

The pressure, I usually just take a deep breath.

[James Stout]

When I'm just breathing and seeing what's.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

In front of me, everything just slows down.

[James Stout]

It just makes me feel great before.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I run the play. Just like Bijan.

[Andrew Sage]

We all need a strong mental game on and off the field. Make a game plan for your mental [e-mail] Love, you're mine.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health foundation, the Arthur M. Blank Family.

[Andrew Sage]

Foundation, and the AD Council.

[Garrison Davis]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about.

[Amanda Nelson]

Sorority life, the good, the bad, and.

[Gia Giudice]

The sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Kessler.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Rush, the recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood, or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, Rush chairs and ritual keepers.

[Garrison Davis]

Some call it the best time of.

[Gia Giudice]

Their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Amanda Nelson]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses? From Alpha to Omega?

[Gia Giudice]

We're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm Brandon Kyle Goodman, the host of the Tell Me Something Messy podcast. I wanted to create a safe, comfy.

[Andrew Sage]

Place for all of us to talk.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

About sex, relationships, and what it means to be human.

[Andrew Sage]

And, baby, my fantastic guests are bringing their message to share with the class.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like singer, songwriter Duran Bernard suggesting we.

[Andrew Sage]

Reinstate adult sleepovers with friends.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling your. You know what I'm saying? I mean, granted, I might be doing. But, you know, like. And I think it's important for those examples of that, of us just being gentle with one another, because the world and the people in it already finding brand new ways to whip our ass every single 1000% day. 1000%. So the least we could do is make strides to handle each other in a way that is a bit more.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, with.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's. That's with care and a bit more mindful. Listen to. Tell me something Messy on the iHeartRadio.

[Garrison Davis]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[James Stout]

This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called the Red Weather.

[Amanda Nelson]

It was many and many a year.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Ago in a kingdom by itself.

[Andrew Sage]

In 1995, my neighbor Anna Trainor disappeared from a commune.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It was hard to wrap your head around.

[Andrew Sage]

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So, no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody.

[Gia Giudice]

There were years, right, where I could.

[Garrison Davis]

Not say your name.

[James Stout]

I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends.

[Robert Evans]

Family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I.

[Andrew Sage]

Can to try to find out what actually happened.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Isn't it a little bit weird that.

[Andrew Sage]

They obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend?

[Amanda Nelson]

They have had this case for 30 years.

[Garrison Davis]

I'll teach you sons of come around.

[James Stout]

Here in my white.

[Andrew Sage]

Boom, boom. This is the red weather.

[James Stout]

Listen to the red Weather on the.

[Andrew Sage]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Stout]

Hi, friends, and welcome to the show. It's me, James Today, and I'm very lucky to be joined by Sam Hamilton, who is the senior litigation staff attorney at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Atlanta. Hi, Sam.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Hi, James. Thanks for having me.

[James Stout]

Yeah, thanks for joining us. And we are gathered here today to talk about the new proposals that DHS has to detain people in literal warehouses. Right. If people aren't familiar, maybe you could start out by explaining what those proposals are and how they specifically relate to the areas where you're organizing in Atlanta.

[Gia Giudice]

Sure.

[Sophie Lichterman]

So around December of 2025, a journalist leaked a list of about 20 different cities across the country where ICE was intending to open new detention facilities in warehouses specifically. And this list contained the names of the cities and the expected or projected occupancy of each of these facilities. And so I live here in Atlanta, Georgia, and there were two cities on that list with warehouses contemplated. One is located in the city of Flowery Branch, where the warehouse there is intended to detain up to 1,500 people. And the other is in the city of Social circle, Georgia, where ICE intends to use a warehouse that is over 1 million square feet to detain about 8,500 people.

[James Stout]

That's vast. Like, I think this would dwarf the capacity of any. Like, I'm trying to think if there are maybe prisons that are bigger than that. I don't know. But like, in immigration terms, I don't think there is anything.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, I mean, you know, so for the last four years or so, I've worked with, I've worked on various different shutdown ICE campaigns here in Georgia. And for the last four years, I've been working with the campaign to shut down the Folkestone ICE Processing center, which is an ICE facility in South Georgia, pretty close to Florida. But it's about a five hour drive from Atlanta. And that ended up expanding last summer, but the number of beds at that facility was projected to be around 3,000. And at the time that was going to be the largest ice detention facility in the country. So to jump from 3,000 to 8,500 is. Yeah, it's massive, obviously.

[James Stout]

Yeah. I mean people want it like it's not fascism enough to come from the fascia rain area of Italy.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Otherwise it's like sparkling authoritarianism or whatever. But like unless you're looking for like a gate with Abech marked Frei on it or whatever, like these are concentration camps. Like that, that is what this. It was really interesting. In 2023 we had outdoor detention under the Biden administration and we didn't really have much coverage in the US media when we were participating in mutual aid there, but we'd had a lot from non US media, like folks from Japan and Singapore and Italy and they'd just come and be like, oh yeah, this is a concentration camp. And then they'd write the story and be like, oh, these are concentration camps. And I would never have got that past an editor in LA or New York. To them it seems so self evident now we're just doing it on an even bigger scale, I guess. It's, it's terrible. It's, it's, it's shit. So I know you've been organizing in social circles specifically. Right. Or part of an organizing group, I should say, that's been opposing this detention center. So I think it'd be really instructive to people because these are all, these are going to be all over the country. And this won't be the only expansion of immigration detention we see in the next few years, I imagine, given the massive budget and the priorities of the administration. Can you explain a little bit about like how that campaign got started and then the, like the nuts and bolts of how this is being opposed?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. So before I get into that, I think providing some context on who the Social Circle community is would be instructive. So it's a pretty small, it's a very small city. It's got a population of about 5,000 people. Overwhelmingly Republican, overwhelmingly white and pretty wealthy.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And it's about an hour drive outside of Atlanta. And In December of 2025, a news article was published in the Washington Post announcing, you know, the list of the 20 cities where these warehouses would be, would be popping up. And it was that article that told the residents of Social Circle and the elected officials of Social Circle for the first time that this ICE mega prison was coming to their Community. There was no notice to the city by ICE or anyone in the federal government at all. Certainly no opportunity to respond, no opportunity for public input.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

So they felt really blindsided.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And I'm not from this community, and, you know, I. I've. I've met many of these people only for the first time, you know, within the last couple months. But I think it would not be so far fetched to say that some of these people feel, you know, especially the ones who identify as Republicans or. Or as, you know, conservatives, I think they feel really betrayed by, you know, by their government, by their party.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of these people, I mean, I've just described the demographic. I think many of them have never been involved in organizing of any kind before. Some of them have, I think, but I think due to, you know, their life circumstances, just might not have found themselves in a place where they've needed to organize for anything.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

So a bunch of these residents got together and have been holding, you know, in person, kind of town hall community meetings, and they held one in January where there were about, you know, I think 40 to 50 people in the room, and they wanted to get together and, you know, just have a public discourse about what. What could be done.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And I was invited to. To this meeting because of my history of involvement with shutdown campaigns here in Georgia. I got started with shutdown campaigns in 2020 when a nurse, a whistleblower who worked at an immigration detention center here in Georgia called the Irwin County Detention center, alerted the public that there was a doctor who was contracting with ICE who had been providing medical services to women detained in this facility while he had actually been performing non consensual and medically unnecessary medical and gynecological procedures on women in ICE detention.

[James Stout]

I remember this. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. And when these women spoke out about it to their family members, to journalists, to their lawyers, to members of Congress or staffers for members of Congress, they were retaliated against by being swiftly deported. And I'm talking, put on planes within hours of speaking to a congressional staffer. And at the time, I was working at the University of Georgia School of Law's First Amendment Clinic, where we were providing, you know, free legal services to people across the state, including, you know, helping people with getting access to public records and suing the police and, you know, and federal agents when they were retaliated against. And so we represented those women. And it was through my work at Erwin and, you know, connecting with the organizers there that I got involved with Shutdown campaigns, or rather the shutdown Irwin campaign here in Georgia. And then from there later got involved with the shutdown Folkestone campaign. So I had been asked to speak to this group of people who I think were new to the immigrants rights struggle to talk about, you know, what it's like to try to prevent a detention center from popping up in their community.

[James Stout]

And like, you say, like, it's not a community that might traditionally be demographically the same as the people who we associate with, like migrant advocacy, migrant activism. I guess when a group like that comes into a moment like this, I mean, there are some areas of, like, activism, I guess, civil society stuff where like white suburban folks have some experience. Right. Planning is one of them.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Like, the reason bike lanes only go north south in San Diego is because they think that those of us who can't afford to live by the sea don't deserve to cycle safely. Like, there are many other examples of this, but what were their thoughts when they. When they first met? I'm really interested to know. They're obviously upset and they feel abandoned and betrayed, but, like, how did they want to organize to prevent this?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Well, a lot of them were upset about the decrease in their property value. That was what was really bringing them. Yeah, that was the radicalizing moment.

[James Stout]

Same with the bike lanes, actually.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Oh, yeah, I bet.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And, you know, but in addition to the property value stuff, it's also, you know, the strain that this would impose on their small community. I mean, you know, a number of the people who live there might be of, you know, well to do means, but, you know, their city police department employs a total of 14 officers, and they have two on duty at any given time. They have a fire department of, you know, comparably, you know, small size, and they have, you know, water and sewer infrastructure that was built to accommodate about as many people as live there now. You know, between 4,000 and 5,000 people.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And it's that impact that is also, you know, really maddening and activating and agitating to people. Those arguments are not new to us who have organized in south Georgia in also very red areas, a lot more rural and a lot less wealthy.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

You know, we'll try to. We've canvassed door to door in the city of Folkestone to try to ask people how do they feel about this mega prison opening up in their community? And a lot of people were against it, despite the fact government officials might try to bill it as an economic boon, an employment opportunity. A lot of people said, hey, I Mean, I don't necessarily want a prison in my backyard, but if it's bringing jobs, then that's what this community needs. That's something that I think makes social circle distinct from the previous shutdown campaigns I've worked on in Irwin county and in Folkestone is that this isn't really an area that is starved for employment or starved for economic support. These people are doing okay. And another thing that makes it distinct is before all of this warehouse business, the vast majority of facilities in this country are formed through intergovernmental service agreements, you know, or IGSAS for short is the acronym. But they're agreements between the federal government and the county. Yeah, the local government. Where the local government says, yes, you can use our land or our facilities and in exchange you pay us. I mean, in the case of Folkestone, it's a comparably measly amount. It's only $200,000 per year.

[James Stout]

Jesus. Not much. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Even though the federal government is giving, I mean, $50 million a year to insert your favorite private prison corporation here, you know, whether it's Corecivic or Geo Group. Yeah. I mean your favorite. There are only two. Really.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much of a choice.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, yeah. And so typically like we see this sort of like co opting and manipulation of the local community and the local government by the federal government, you know, coerc economically to, you know, to take on these detention centers or else. But here, I mean, social, like I said, social circle is doing fine. They're not starved for economic investment.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And I didn't, you know, consult them at all. It really just like, you know, in the dead of night just bought this warehouse from a private company and pushed this deal through. So those are some aspects that I think might throw, you know, some of us who might have been involved in these similar fights before, like for a loop a little bit because yeah, there's this assumption, I think by some of the local officials that the supremacy clause governs here and the federal government can do whatever it wants. So there's no point in us trying to use our local zoning ordinances or what have you to try to put a stop to this. Because there's nothing that we can do.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Is at least what, you know, some people might be saying.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Let's take a break for advertisements. I can't think of anything mean to say, I don't know, buy some shit. This have come from a. Don't, don't buy anything you don't need. Okay, We are back. So you Were talking about this. This assumption that the supremacy clause would mean that the. The federal government could build a mega prison in a warehouse in your town without asking you if it could do that first. Can you explain, like, how people are able to use, like you said, like, various local tools to oppose this? Like you said, it's a huge burden. Like, when I first read this story, I remember thinking about, like, just like the water and sewage demands of housing 8,000 people would be crippling for the infrastructure in a lot of places. So how are people opposing this?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Well, it's been really inspiring for me to see these local leaders who, again, many of whom have never been involved in activism or organizing before, they've been very consistent in holding demonstrations on a weekly basis at the site of this facility and have garnered the attention of different media who have come and interviewed them. So that's been one way that they've been trying to, you know, get their message out there. I was just talking about, you know, the residents who are concerned from, you know, a sort of fiscal perspective and are concerned about, you know, their own property values and things like that. But there are a fair number of people who are concerned about, you know, the core human rights abuses. And, you know, sure, some of the lines might be, well, this isn't the right place.

[James Stout]

Right.

[Sophie Lichterman]

You know, our city is not the right place for a detention center. Suggesting, you know, implying that there are some places that are suitable for a detention center. But there are a fair number of people in this community who, who are opposed to detention centers in general. I mean, they see that. They see the violence that ICE is inflicting in broad daylight on public streets. And I think they're horrified and they don't want to be complicit in something like that coming to their community. And I do think that along the way I'm seeing more of a shift in the consciousness, or at least an openness to understanding the different influences that bring us to. To the same table.

[James Stout]

That's cool.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, it is. It has been very cool.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And we can agree that, you know, we're not going to have 100% unity of ideas, but we can have a unity of action.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And, you know, we can save these debates on, you know, I mean, whether someone is illegal or not.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But, you know, we can continue to have them along the way as we are identifying the very concrete ways that we can work together. And I'm thinking of one, for example, I work pretty closely with some staffers for different members of Congress. I mean, in Terms of like uplifting, you know, human rights and civil rights abuses that we see in detention centers. Because as part of my job, I go inside detention centers, immigration detention centers in Georgia pretty frequently. Also federal prisons.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And we'll meet with people and learn about the conditions that they're facing and we'll, you know, fight for them to get released and also share what I learned from them with, you know, different members of, of Congress. And most of our connections are with people who are aligned with the Democratic Party. You know, I mean, to be, to be frank, you know, I've never initiated correspondence with a Republican, but I think I kind of just assumed that they wouldn't want to.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

That I wouldn't get anywhere with them or that they wouldn't, you know, that they wouldn't talk to me. But what's been effective in working with this coalition of residents is some of these people, I mean. Yeah, like they, I, you know, they've been card carrying Republicans for a long time and feel that they, you know, can wield influence over, you know, certain Republican elected officials and.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And one of them, you know, I mean, well, I, I don't know how many of them, but, but a number of these local residents have gotten Republican, you know, Mike Collins to come out against this ICE facility.

[James Stout]

Yeah, that's especially right now in the Republican Party and like that. That could be very difficult for them to do. I sort of once not hugely sympathetic to Republican politicians and I would still like to see them get better. Like that's, we want people to get better. That's the whole thing. And I think for these people whose politics may not be the same as ours, sharing the space, sharing the movement, sharing the struggle, I hope it makes people better. I hope being exposed to people who are not of the same background as you, be it class wise, race wise, politics wise, whatever makes people realize that things are not quite how they're presented to them on the television or in the media they consume.

[Gia Giudice]

Totally.

[James Stout]

So I'm sure that's. Yeah, like, I hope that is positive. What can like local government do or even like elected officials do, given that elected officials on a federal level do, given that. I mean, ICE just appears to be operating like without a great deal of oversight right now. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

I mean, with each of these warehouses, there are different circumstances around each of them. I've been really inspired honestly by the folks in Maryland who are dealing with a warehouse, maybe multiple warehouses. I'm not sure. Yeah, I can't remember where, you know, at both the local and the state level, they have really pushed for legislation that would effectively. Yeah. I mean, prevent these warehouses from existing at all. It is a different set of facts than what we're working with here in Georgia because there's more involvement by private actors. And so the government, you know, the local government can. Can regulate them.

[James Stout]

Yeah, more.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But Maryland is certainly not the only place where. Where those fights are happening. And so I would really encourage folks to.

[Gia Giudice]

To. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

To learn from Maryland. And I get, you know, I'm talking about, you know, legislation. I. I mean, I will be the first to tell you as a lawyer that I don't think legal tools will liberate us. You know, the law will not make us free.

[James Stout]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And I do think it's. It's the people power, it's the coming together, it's the mass collective action that is, you know, that's what's going to do it. And also, there are multiple, you know, there are multiple tools and multiple instruments that we can.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

They can wield. And so right now, I mean, with respect to the social Circle warehouse, ICE is saying that they intend to detain people in there starting in April.

[James Stout]

Geez.

[Sophie Lichterman]

In less than two months.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And so right now, the strategy truly is to use just like every tool at our disposal.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Identifying. Yeah. Like, what legislation can be filed, what litigation, you know, what lawsuits can be filed, what, you know, demonstrations, what kind of, you know, canvassing, door knocking, you know, you name it. Like, how can. How can people come together? How can we try to identify which companies would be supplying the labor to turn this warehouse into something, you know, where people will be detained? I mean, not that. Not that I think ICE gives a damn about making any type of facility habitable for humans, but there's going to be. There's going to be some work that needs to be done in order to turn this would be. Amazon warehouse into a place for people. And is there work that local organizers. Because they're organizers, we're all organizers. Is there work that local organizers can do to try to unite with laborers, with workers who, you know, might be working on this facility to try to like, prevent them or like city workers? Like, can they prevent city workers from, like, actually hooking up this warehouse to the city utilities?

[James Stout]

Right. Yeah, yeah, presumably. Yeah. That will be a building contractor. Right. Like, they will want to build thousands of cells in this giant. Yeah, like all of that stuff. And especially with it happening so quickly, like, you know, anything that delays that will cause it to at least slow it down, I guess.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. I Think another angle that we haven't talked about yet is the environmental angle, like with Social Circle. You know, this is, I mean, a town of 5,000. It's gonna trip. It's gonna nearly triple the number of people in this place and also triple the amount of waste and sewage that's going to be coming out of this place. I mean, so that's one thing. Another thing for people to look at is, you know, what would the environmental impact of these warehouses be on local waterways, for example? And that's what, you know, temporarily put a stop on. The detention facility in the Everglades in Florida was a legal challenge in federal court under nepa, the National Environmental Protection act, because the federal government had failed to conduct the proper environmental impact assessments. And the only thing that they actually really had to do was, you know, something very procedural and, you know, tick a box. And ultimately the facility ended up moving forward. But it was a tool to buy time to figure out what other types of organizing can we do.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And it's still like, even if it's only time, right? Like, harm isn't being done in that time, and it's still a good thing. It's like a form of harm reduction. It reminds me a lot of the struggles here against the newer, larger border wall that we've seen since 2015, 2016, whenever Trump got elected. Like, I'm thinking about how there have been ecological challenges to it, there have been social challenges to it. Right. The city of San Diego is currently trying to sue the Fed for trespass for part of its war construction, which I'm not a big fan of our city government, but I'm glad they did that. And all these different tools have at least, like, at least in the last Trump administration. I remember in the late summer of 2020 being out with some Kumeyaay folks who were in ceremony because the wall construction was destroying Kumeyaay ancestors. Right. Who are buried there and then the spaces where they are buried. And they ran out the clock on the Trump administration. Right. By using their rights as indigenous people to be in ceremony, the refusal of the workers to literally drive a dump truck through the middle of their ceremonial practices, they were able to run the clock out on the Trump administration. Unfortunately, now we have another one. But all those different things had to work together to mean that in that little part of the border, somebody's great, great grandparents remains weren't dynamited out of the earth. And that's still a good thing. Like, however we got there, that's a good thing.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Absolutely.

[James Stout]

It Makes me happy to hear that, like, even folks who might have otherwise been politically aligned with this project were appalled by this, because the idea of literally warehousing humans, like, it's so fucking bleak. Like, there's these big warehouses where we fill them with shit that we don't need, and now they're filling them with people that apparently we don't want. Like, it's. It's one of the more horrific things that. I don't know. It just. It's so bleak to me.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah, Yeah, I agree. Like, the veil has just been totally lifted. Like, we know that they don't view immigrants as human.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

But now they're, like, not even pretending anymore, just truly treating people like chattel.

[James Stout]

Yeah, again. Yeah, again, Right. In the same places.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

In this instance, like, I'm. I guess I'm glad that even people who. Who own. Not politically on the same team maybe, like, are opposed to this because it's. Yeah. It's repugnant. Yeah, I guess. What if people are hearing about this for the first time? Right. And we'll include that link to the article so people can look up where these locations are if they're near them. What advice would you have for people if you're listening to this? You click on that link, you find this one half an hour from your house or whatever. Like, what advice do you have for those people?

[Sophie Lichterman]

I think if you're already an organizer, regardless of whether you've been in the immigrants rights fight or not, now is the time when it really is, like, all hands on deck, so don't be afraid to get involved. But also, like we were talking about before we started is, I think, guarantee that there is some immigrants rights movement in your locale or somewhere close by. And I think it's just so important to, you know, approach this work not with the assumption that you are starting, you know, launching this new campaign, spearheading this, you know, new, previously untapped, you know, area of work. Because I guarantee you that, you know, there are people who have worked on this before. And so I think connect with, you know, connect both with people who have been doing this work for a long time and also try to connect with people who you might not otherwise have thought to connect with. And I think it's important to call out the nimbyism, the not in my backyardism of how, you know, some people are coming at this issue because they're worried about their property value, but it's also something that we can capitalize on it's energy and oftentimes it's people with capital and connections that you might not otherwise have had access to either. So I think the connecting and the community organizing needs to go in multiple directions. But I do think it's important to move. It's important to move fast.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Seriously. That is a very constrained timeline. Everybody has to be. But that means it's also important to move respectfully.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Because if we just blow each other up because people assume that migrant communities have somehow not been advocating for themselves and each other for centuries, then we're not going to have time to organize because we're going to be dealing with that shit. And I've seen that so much, just personally. Right. Like, having been involved for some time in migrant advocacy and seeing folks, like, pop in and tell us how to do everything, it's. It's tiresome. I understand that you want to help, but, yeah, if this is something that, like, you're organizing around, super easy to find those organizations to be like, how can I help?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah. And it's also such a good. Like, this fight in particular is such a good vehicle for fighting for abolition overall. As someone who's been saying, abolish ICE for years, it is amazing to see how much traction that phrase has gotten, especially over the last six months. And we can't just be fighting against, you know, preventing new ICE facilities. We need to be fighting for shutting down all ICE facilities and for abolishing ICE as an institution. We've been around before ICE, and we will be around after ICE as, you know, as an agency. ICE has only been around since 2003. Sure, there was a predecessor. There was the INS, but, I mean, it didn't operate in nearly the type of way that ICE does now as this, you know, law enforcement agency. And even before Trump, like, ICE was still a really, you know, horrible. Like, horrible.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Agency. And so, yeah, I think it's important to continue to, you know, point these things out while also, you know, welcoming people into the fight and.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Sophie Lichterman]

And pushing them. Pushing them farther.

[James Stout]

Mm. Yeah. I think that's really. That's really important. Like, I think we have to rebut the assumption that this is an aberration and we can fix it and go back to normal, because normal was bad, and you just couldn't see it because it wasn't on your screen.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

Like, children died in outdoor detention under Biden. I saw people suffer immensely in outdoor detention under Biden. Like, we don't want to go back to that either. And I think it's really important that when we build these coalitions. We build them with that in mind. That, like, we're organizing very quickly, but also we're in this for the long haul until everybody's free. Is there anything that you'd like to leave people with resources or a bit of advice, Any, like, closing words you'd like to share with them?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Apologize. That's all I got.

[James Stout]

Perfect.

[Andrew Sage]

Fourteen years in prison for killing a young woman. A 15 year sentence for a crash that caused three deaths.

[James Stout]

Twelve and a half years for killing.

[Andrew Sage]

A child and critically injuring her mother. All true stories, all caused by marijuana. Impaired drivers. No matter what you tell yourself, if.

[James Stout]

You feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the AD Council.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about.

[Amanda Nelson]

Sorority life, the good, the bad and.

[Gia Giudice]

The sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia.

[Amanda Nelson]

Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Kessler.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Rush the recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers, Some call it the best time of their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Amanda Nelson]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega?

[Gia Giudice]

We're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm Brandon Kyle Goodman, the host of the Tell Me Something Messy podcast. I wanted to create a safe, comfy.

[Andrew Sage]

Place for all of us to talk.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

About sex, relationships, and what it means to be human.

[Andrew Sage]

And, baby, my fantastic guests are bringing their mess to share with the class.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like singer songwriter Duran Bernard, suggesting we.

[Andrew Sage]

Reinstate adult sleepovers with friends.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling you. You know what I'm saying?

[James Stout]

Like, I mean, I mean, I mean.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Granted, I might be doing. But you know, like, and I think it's important for those examples of that, of us just being gentle with one another because the world and the people in it already finding brand new ways to whip our ass every single day, 1,000%. So the least we could do is make strides to handle each other in a way that is a bit more.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, with.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's. That's. With care and a bit more mindful. Listen to. Tell me something Messy on the iHeartRadio.

[Garrison Davis]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Andrew Sage]

And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is. You can decide who takes home the.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

2026 IHEART Podcast Awards Podcast of the Year by voting at iheartpodcastawards.com now through February 22nd.

[Andrew Sage]

Second, see all the nominees and place.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Your vote at iheartpodcastawards.Com Audible is a.

[Amanda Nelson]

Proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award.

[Garrison Davis]

Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app.

[Amanda Nelson]

Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen.

[Garrison Davis]

Sign up for a free [e-mail].

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

All right, so, ladies and gentlemen, we gonna dive in hood politics with probably this is special for me. We're calling this the art of Petty. And the play on words you may or may not know is that Petty's actually my last name. And like, like, literally, government, it's my last name. And as a child, it used to bother me. As a grown up, I'm like, nah, that sounds about right. So what made us start, first of all, was the bio says the writer of the Pettysburg address. Yeah, that's one of the funniest things. It makes me mad because it's my last name. And I'm like, why did I not think of that? Like, so brilliant. Amanda Nelson, welcome to the show.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for appreciating my ridiculous Abraham Lincoln joke.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's brilliant. I and super producer Ian separately came across your content, like, at the same time. I know when I first hit the follow, within a day or two, Ian was like, have you heard of. Have you heard of this person? And he just sent me the link. I was like, dude, I just started following and it's. And I think there's a. There's a kindred spirit in the sense of, like, history being actually not that difficult to grasp if you just speak like a regular ass human, you know what I'm saying? And politics the same. Like, you know, the premise of the whole show is that, like, if you understand inner city living, you understand politics. Like, if you grew up in and around our streets, it's really not that different. You know, even whether you was like a nerd, you know, running as fast as you can to the library, you still knew, I better not go down 7th Street. Because, like, you still know how this works. You know what I'm saying? Or whether you were completely outside, like, you know, stealing people's bikes. Like you get it, you know. So what we appreciated about what you do is, is the accessibility of it. So thank you.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thank you. Well, thank you. That's. That was the goal from the beginning. Especially the. You know, on Mondays I do a series called the Whiteboard, which is literally just a whiteboard with a bunch of sticky notes on it.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Where I track congressional legislation as it moves its way through Congress or doesn't, as is more often the case.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And that was one of the first things I started doing when I started making content. And people were so appreciative of it in a way I found surprising. I thought people would find it nerdy and boring and silly.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

But it's such an unnecessarily complicated process and explaining it in ways that people can grasp that there's been a lot of appreciation for. Which I love.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Which leads me to the next question, which would be like, okay, so your formal training, your upbringing. Like I need to know the origin story of the nerdery. But before that, this is the week of the Super Bowl. So I'm just wondering, as a Latina who's not a Latina, who I just found out an hour ago, is not a Latino. Have you recovered from Benito's performance?

[Amanda Nelson]

I am not a Latino. That is true. And I just. When I was talking about it, when I was talking about it online, about the. About Bad Bunny's halftime show, I got so many people asking me, wait, you're not Latina? So apparently I am presenting, which is nice.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

I have recovered because after the halftime show I went to bed. So I was in bed by like 9:30. It was such a boring game. Like I'm not going to sit here.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

The game was trash.

[Amanda Nelson]

Four hours of friggin field goals. But then of course I went to bed and it spiced up a little bit.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Then it became a game.

[Garrison Davis]

Right.

[Amanda Nelson]

But it didn't matter.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. So you're on the east coast then?

[Amanda Nelson]

I am. I'm in Virginia. Yep.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. No, that's. That's absolutely hilarious. We are on the west coast. To which the game starts at 3pm but definitely my wife was like ready to go after the. After that. My wife is a first gen Latina and she was just like, wait, there's more game.

[Amanda Nelson]

Do I have to.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

She's being silly. But yeah. Do we have to stay? We're at my sister in law's house. And she was just like, we're good. Unless you want to stay. You know, since I'm a Cali native, I'm like, I really don't care about either of these teams. And.

[Amanda Nelson]

Same.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

And my. I mean, down to my mitochondria. Like, I cannot ever cheer for a New England team. Yeah, I can't. Just the Celtics, the Boston thing. As an LA boy, I can't anybody remotely close to that. I just can't cheer for it.

[Amanda Nelson]

I think I have like 2010s PTSD for having to constantly listen to the Patriots be. Oh, for sure, in everything. And so I have an ingrained bias. Also, their owner's like a weird maga dude, and I.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

He weirdo.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, he's weird. So. And Tom Brady is also weird. Like, he's a weird guy.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

He weird, man. Did you see his roast?

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes. Yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I was like, yeah, you weird, bro.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like, and I can't decide if, like, Giselle leaving made him weirder or if he was weird and she left because of that. I can't figure it out. I don't care that much.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

But I honestly. That's a good thought, man. Like, because I've. I've considered that a few times because I'm like, the level of competitive you have to be to be someone like a Tom Brady, like a Michael Jordan, like Tony Hawk, like, you have to be insufferable with your will and drive to be as good as you are. And now my wife has a PhD in ED policy. She's one of the most self driven people I know. Even with her just doctoral nerdiness. There's a level of like, will you chill? Like, about, you know, certain stuff. But. But we're both, like, we're both nerds. You know what I'm saying? So we're both nerds in a lot of ways. But, like, I can imagine. I can't imagine being married to someone where you're just like, can we talk about anything? Anything but this? Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

Anything else? Yes, the answer is no.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

No.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So, okay, so tell me about. Okay. Formal training and upbringing. Like, why are you like this?

[Amanda Nelson]

Why am I like this?

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

Well, I have a history degree, an undergraduate history degree that I got. How do I explain why I'm like this? That's such an interesting question. So I was raised in south by very conservative white people.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Okay.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I did not understand why. I was kind of singled out a lot growing up. Like, as we said at the beginning, I am not Latina. My grandmother's from the Philippines. And so that was like enough. Like, enough one dropness to make all the white people around.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. One drop will do you.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, like, very weird. And I didn't get it. And as I grew up and I realized more about. I understood more about the south and about Virginia specifically, which is the capital of the Confederacy and all that.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

I got kind of obsessed with history. Like, why are these people like this?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

So I've always been into history. I got a history degree and then I became, you know, kind of actively once I got out of my parents house, to be honest. And they're not conservative anymore. But once I got out of my parents house and discovered like a world of active. I went to college, which is the case with so many kids who grew up in, you know, the rural South. I went to college, discovered activism and organizing and people with different opinions.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I don't know, a whole world opened up for me and I got involved. I've been politically involved ever since. I've done all kinds of things. I've volunteered for campaigns. I've been a clinic escort. Yeah. An abortion clinic here in town.

[Gia Giudice]

All.

[Amanda Nelson]

All kinds of different. I've worked with the aclu, so I am like this, I suppose because my family is strange.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I respect it.

[Amanda Nelson]

Or maybe not strange. Maybe just normal for where they're from.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Normal for where they are from. Nah, I respect that. In your defense, the Philippines, y' all are the black and Latinos of Asia.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes, the Mexicans.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So you guys the Pacific. Yeah. You're the Mexicans and the black people. That's what's. That's what sucks about being. Or what's great about being Filipino. Y' all get to be black and Latino and Asian. It's not fair. My stepmom's from the Philippines. So like, I have this affinity because. Raised by a Filipino woman. Well, I was raised by a black woman and a Filipino woman. Long story. The point is that. That makes a lot of sense, dude. Like, that thing that radicalized you was. I'm using radicalized as a stand in word. But just exposure. Right. Like that's super interesting to know that, like, not even the awareness of. Because like you said, like, you, you existed in this white space and you like. I don't understand why y'.

[Robert Evans]

All.

[Amanda Nelson]

Exactly.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

What's the problem?

[Amanda Nelson]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

What did I do? It's like, it's because you're kind of not. You're like, well, but yeah, I am. Right. Like, it was, it was kind of, kind of one of those scenarios. Or like. Or did you kind of. Like, I may be putting a little more on. Like, you. Like, you said you weren't aware of your. Your presenting, but did you. Did you feel sort of culturally that, like, I. I feel like I belong here? Is that was. Is that true?

[Amanda Nelson]

I mean, I didn't understand. I understood that I looked a little bit different than everybody around me. Fine.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

A little bit. Not a ton. Like, I'm not, you know, like, I'm a quarter Filipino. Like, it's not. I understood that I looked a little bit different. I did not understand why that mattered word for a really long time. And then, like, the older I got, the more it would be. Like, I go out into school, and the sort of racism that I would get would be when people mistook me for being Latina or when people mistook me for being black. That's when I would get, like, act, like, really bad. Because where I'm from, in Virginia beach is the largest Filipino population on the East Coast. So Filipinos being around people were kind of used to. But it was when people thought that I was not just other, but a whole other other, you know, than what they were used to.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I didn't. I didn't understand, Like, I was born into this household. Like, yeah, I grew up with. We've all watched the same fogging NASCAR races. I. We eat the same.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, totally.

[Amanda Nelson]

We listen to that. I have to listen to your stupid ass Rush Limbaugh. So, like, why am I. Yeah. Different. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's so interesting. I love that. My undergrad was going to be history, but it kind of switched to, like, intercultural studies. I was just more interested, a little more, like, sociology. I majored in illustration, and because I wanted to do art and cultural studies and then did social science for, like, grad school. Mine was a little different in the sense that listeners know, but, like, my father was a. My father was a Black Panther, you know, I'm saying. And, you know, we, you know, we grew up in the space, and it wasn't sort of like, like you said, like, this, like, light bulb was not my experience. My experience was like, this is necessary for our survival.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

And I think I was more thrown back because. Which is, again, what I want to get to about, like, kind of the way that you present this stuff is like, I feel like this information is available for all of us. Like, it didn't take a lot of digging for you to, like. I feel like it was not really. I loved even. Even you talking about Your, your experience in like working in politics and organizing and volunteering where it's like a lot of times we feel like the access to entry is much harder than it actually is. You could just go there, just go over there and just be like, yo, can I help? And it' like it really be that easy, you know, and people will be.

[Amanda Nelson]

So happy to have you.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I just feel like especially your, your I'm jumping around but like you're, you're Trump's L's for the week are like, I mean, it's right there like, you know what I'm saying? Like he just be saying them. It'll take a lot of work, you know what I'm saying? Like, but obviously us as like, you know, having formal training and research and fact checking and double checks like, you know, like having the formal training definitely helps me, you know what I'm saying? But, but besides that, sometimes I'll be like, well, this is just. I mean this is what he said he was going to do and then it didn't happen. So I'm like, that's a l ain't it? Like, I just don't. It don't be that hard. Okay, now the next question is about your sense of humor. So like, why are you so funny? Like, what, why are you like that?

[Amanda Nelson]

Because I'm mean.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I love it.

[Amanda Nelson]

I'm mean to people you're not supposed to be mean to. Like, you know, there's such a. Americans. Let me rephrase this. White Americans have such an ingrained like, inherent respect for positions of authority, like the, like the President. Like, how can you talk shit about the president? You know, I don't care.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Does he trash because he's garbage.

[Amanda Nelson]

I don't give a shit. Like he looks, he's the color of a rusted out horse trough. The fuck do I care?

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

So I have no problems being, being mean. And I mean in ways that give people like permission to be a little like, yeah. Thrilled by it or a little delighted by it. And that provides, I think, an entryway for people to, to learn a little bit of defiance.

[James Stout]

I love it.

[Amanda Nelson]

I don't know. America, we're not, we're not great at. Again I should clarify. White America specifically, especially my people.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I was like, oh no, man, we'll ever.

[James Stout]

Really.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. But anyway.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Like the people that I speak to are a lot of like suburban moms. Right. I'm a 41 year old mom and they are not used to middle fingers up at all, especially. Yeah, recently, you know, like, Biden got in office and everybody kind of fell asleep. Yeah, white people fell asleep. So being mean and just pulling out some claws, it's both, like, funny and fun for me, but it's also strategic because I do want there to be totally. I want to present a permission structure for people to start learning to have a bit more backbone.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I love that. I love that. I love that. Like you said, the term you use is permission, and that's what I enjoyed. I think that, yeah, like, knowing that, like, you're from the south and that like, adds even more of a. A color to what's happening here makes me like it even more. Yeah, I don't have no second thoughts about dragging a public figure, a politician. Like, I don't have no second thoughts about it because again, like, you asked for this. You know what I'm saying? Like, you, you, you signed up for this. You said you was gonna be this, like, all right, I'm about to get real black. But like, there's parts of me that's just like, okay, are you a bitch ass nigga? You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, there are ways for me to be able to know if you are. You presented yourself like you a real one. And I'm like, okay, well, there's qualifying entry points for me to do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, we learn our respect in our culture. You respect your elders for their position as elders, but do I respect that person as a person? No, you gotta earn that. But authority figures are different. You're in a corrupt system. Like, this system already don't like me, and you're applying for a job, and the job you applying for is governance. So I'm like, I don't give fuck about you. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, no, but there is something unique, I think about your particular intersections as ethnically ambiguous, from the south, highly educated, you know, and unfortunately, in a patriarchal, misogynistic world of female.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Which I already know greats at so much, which I think I appreciate probably the most. When you have time to, like, drag a commenter, like, obviously, men are not okay. Like, we know that ship has sailed. We're not okay. You know what I'm saying? Part of me feels like now this is like, as much as I've evolved in my feminism and, you know, I'm the father of two daughters and, you know, I've learned to, like, really not understand how I was the problem to become to understand that I'm the problem, you know, even in just my ways of communicating, my advocacy, stuff like that, my blind spots and all that. And I'm with, you know what I'm saying? I have nephews. I don't have. Like, I said, I don't have sons, but I have nephews who I've, like, realized that I carried a lot of ways for which I thought I was supposed to talk to my daughter versus talking to a son, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like. And I used to say, well, I'm gonna talk to my daughter the way I would talk to my son, you know, and just stupid, you know what I'm saying? And then. But even just being like, man, sometimes my nephew could use, like, a gentle voice. Like, you know, a man just like him that could just be real gentle, you know what I'm saying? Like, bro, like, man, I'm sorry. You sick, man. It sucks when you get your feelings hurt. Like, I get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, being able to be gentle with him, too. That said, I feel like I come from an era where words have consequences, you know? You say something to somebody, they might slap the shit out of you.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? So, like, you watch your mouth, you know what I'm saying? Cause, like, now, granted, like I said, I've grown to where that, like, I don't know who the fuck you think you talking to? Like, I don't say that no more. You know what I'm saying? Where it's just like, okay, I have learned that that's not the person I need to be. However, I feel like a lot of these young men, especially in your comment sections, like, they didn't have no big homies like I did. That would be like, mm, boy, if you don't shut. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, and just being like, son, like, yes. So you can't just be talking. And I come from a city where she might slap the shit out of you.

[Amanda Nelson]

She will.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? It's not just like, you know what I'm saying?

[Robert Evans]

I'm saying.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So I'm like, bro, you can't just be talking. So anyway, that's a long preamble to say I appreciate when you take the time to drag a comment.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thank you. I do.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So please tell me. Please tell me the origins of that.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah. So I have two sons, okay? They're twins. They'll be 15 in a few weeks. And I Care a lot. Actually. I get a lot of shit for this from people on the left. From liberals as well, especially from women. But I care a lot about men and yeah. Them not being okay. You know, I care.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. They're not okay.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Because I have two boys and I don't want that to be them. I see the traps.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

That are waiting for them out there that are being placed on purpose for sure. By bad actors.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

So I want policy and conversations and acceptance and help for the men and the boys.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And also when it's almost always, you know, like some republican mouth breather who follows a bunch of AI porn bots, gets into my comments to talk to me some kind of way, I decided that I was going to make an example of them because these are people who have never experienced a consequence.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Ever.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like if you're a 50 year old white man, you have never experienced a consequence for running your mouth ever.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's what I'm saying.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I'm going to be that consequence for you. You're welcome.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes. Thank you.

[Amanda Nelson]

And it just disgusts me because again, they're almost always following like a bunch of teenagers AI bots, you know, all of these just.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

It's completely inappropriate behavior. They do not understand the concept of matching energy. They're completely shocked when they come into my comments and give me shit and then I match their energy. They're always just aghast. They're like, how dare I? Well, you dared first. Why?

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm just like, yeah. Like for somebody who swear they so like you so tough and hard. I'm like, man, you little cupcake ass. Like one of the earliest. I mean, I'm telling you the earliest lesson I got as a child. And I still say it to my kids. You don't dish out what you can't take. Like you don't put it out there if you can't handle it, you know. So if you gonna get jokes and that person wrote you back. I come from. That's our culture. It's like even, even around family, it's just like, bro, I was having a conversation with one of the parents. Like because I have the type of job I have, I do a lot of the pickups, the after school pickups.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know, so I was talking to.

[Amanda Nelson]

One of the moms. Shift as a chauffeur.

[James Stout]

Yes, yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So I was talking to one of the moms. Just about like nicknames growing up, whatever.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

And my mother. Biting sarcasm. Super funny, brilliant. But like fire baptized, speaking in tongues, praying the house down. She says a biting sarcasm, and I was like. She used to call me the before picture.

[Andrew Sage]

She just.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Just cold as ice. And I was just like, dang. But again, it's like she could. She could always give it back. You know what I'm saying? So, like, we. You just. So you just knew, like, if you was gonna get your feelings hurt, I don't know if you can handle that, you know? And even, like, specifically with the young ladies, it's just like, bro, like, I like you following porn bots. Like, part of me, like, again, in the most misogynistic possible is like. Cause, nigga, you ain't got no flavor, cuz. Like, right? You're weirdo. Like, that's why you doing this. Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And they claim, like, this is a group of people, you know, whatever. Conservative, Gen X men.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Who claim a level of cultural dominance that. That's what they're expressing when they come into my comment section to yell at me. This, like, cultural dominance they think they have, and it's completely manufactured.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

You dominate no one. No one look at you. Like, and that's kind of the point. That. And I, I. Yeah. Part of me is like, well, maybe I'm being too mean, but also I feel like I'm doing them a favor.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like, you really are.

[Amanda Nelson]

You have no actual self esteem. You have no self esteem is built by doing esteemable things. And when you spend all of your time online just yelling at women, of course. Yeah, there's nothing esteemable there.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's so silly, man. Like, I mean, we're totally off the rails here. But I love this because it's very important to me because I'm just like, when my oldest was in, like, junior high, like, I was trying to tell my wife, like, I was like, the thing is, we have been experiencing rejection since fifth grade, and it's because we're planning this all week to go actually approach Natasha. Like, you've been thinking about it all week. I'm gonna wear the right outfit. I'm gonna do this. You go over there, you say something to her. She giggles to all her friends and runs away and says, ew. It's just like, okay, that's the first time you got your little heartbroken as a little boy. Right? So fast forward to middle school. Oh, my God. Will you dance with me? Ew. No. Okay, you did it again. By the time these dudes are in the club, and it's like, hey, hey, red jeans, red jeans, red jeans. You want to Dance? No. Or whatever. Fuck you. You know what I'm saying? It's just like, you know, you go through this, but all that to say, hopefully, if you have a healthy sense, you start learning. Like, hey, man, you catch more bees with honey, bro? Or, you know what I'm saying? Like, maybe there's a better way to communicate with people, and you just gotta understand that. Like, I just think you don't know how to talk to people. Like, you don't know. Like, she got the right to be like, no, thank you. And you gotta be like, okay, word. You know what I'm saying? You shot your shot. Like, I'm trying to be, like, as bland as possible. Look, you shoot your shot. You don't. You don't make every shot.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't make every shot. You gonna hit one of them. You know what I'm saying? Somebody gonna want to dance with you, and you're just like, okay, great. You know, it was a good time. You know, hey, can we. No. Okay, cool. You know what I'm saying? It's just. It is what it is. To your point, I think, either.

[Robert Evans]

I don't.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's so weird to me. Explain. Cause I just. I don't relate to it. I don't relate to somebody who doesn't understand that. Like, bro, you're a total stranger. Like, I don't care about your opinion, number one. And why do you feel like you have the right to, like, what is you doing? Like, it's just. It's embarrassing, bro. Like, yeah, like, so anyway, I enjoy it, but I think. I think you brought up something that I would love to hear you talk more about. Like, all this to say, like, this is the note I wrote. It's like, I feel like this type of dragging is not only needed, but I think it's holy.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

And I think it's a divine, sacred work to, like, truly roast a person. And I think when it comes to you in politics, it's because you know what you're talking about. It makes it even more important. But I guess my question is, like, do you think that there is something greater than just, this is funny going on there?

[Amanda Nelson]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I know it seems like it's for the lulls or whatever or the views of the click of the engagement or whatever, but there's very little that I do on my. In my content that's not strategic.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And again, it goes back to permission. Like you said, these men don't know me.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

I Don't care what they think about. About me. I'm doing great. You know? You know, you're free to hate me. I don't. I don't care. But I want to, again, provide a permission structure, especially for other women who exist online and who in this moment especially want to start raising their voices.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

To learn how to clap back. Like, you have got to learn if you're going to be out there, especially right now in the world as a woman, you have got to learn how to tell somebody to fuck off for sure in a way that. That matter. That they will hear, you know, Because a lot of times men won't hear. No, we know that the president doesn't know what the word not means, but if you can say it artfully.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And mean it with your whole chest, oftentimes it will work. So it's. It's. It's almost like providing an example, especially for women who are a little younger than me because I'm in my 40s now.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

How to detach themselves from the value assigned to them by random men.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Who gives a.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

For sure? And, like, the seasoning on top of that is just corny ass men. Like, just.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You are a cornball. Like, that's where it's like, it's not the problem, but it's the part that just, like, gets under my fingernails is like, you're so fudgeing corny. Like, you know, saying, holding a fish. Yes. I'm like, why are you doing this? Like, you're the same guy, bro.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like, it's the same guy every time.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Why are y'.

[Gia Giudice]

All.

[Amanda Nelson]

Who.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Where's this esthetic? And then I'm just like, speaking your language. Like, I don't know a single female that likes this.

[Amanda Nelson]

Nope.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like, who? Anyway, let's go back to the professional. Even though I do love that that's a part of the thing. Like, you mentioned before, formally trained in history. You know your whiteboard stuff. Like, you're obviously very well researched, and I have my cynical answer to this. But, like, it's just so bizarre to me how specifically, if we're gonna use these binaries of, like, right wing and left wing, like, especially, like, content creation. To where I'm just like, okay, we know that that's a grift. We know that's a hustle. We know you're doing that. But, like, but even with that, I'm just like, they just be factually wrong.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

To where I'm just like, I'm not even. Like, I'm not even Worried about your position? I can't even get to your positions yet. I'm just saying, like, you ain't do no homework. I can't square that circle to me. But, like, what you do, and I know what I do, too, is because I guess, because I guess we care about reality is like, I mean, do a lot of homework. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I would love to know a little bit about your process as far as, like, your homework, your research, maybe what some tools you use before you even put it on. Like, I mean, there's been times I've had to be like, hey, guys, hey, I fucked up. I thought it was. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'll come back and fact check myself, but I'll just be like, I don't understand fact check at all. Like, I feel like I don't even. That's why I won't do, like, jubilees or any debate. I'll be like, man.

[Amanda Nelson]

Oh, I refuse. No, absolutely not. I'm never.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I don't do no homework.

[James Stout]

Like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, no, that's not my actual nightmare.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes, exactly.

[Amanda Nelson]

Stress stream of being in a jubilee.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

I think that the way that, like you were saying, the way that it's approached makes a difference. So, like, I'm not here for a media career. I'm not here to make a bajillion dollars and become an influencer and go work on Chuck Schumer's reelection campaign. I don't give a shit about any of that.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

No, thank you.

[Amanda Nelson]

I am here. I don't fuck with Chuck Schumer.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, yeah, no, thank you.

[Amanda Nelson]

I am here with a mission. And my mission is to help people who are probably just getting plugged in or even people who've been plugged in for a while and are getting tired, understand how power operates in America politically.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Historically and now. And that takes a lot of digging and a lot of research and a lot of fact checking, as you were saying. So I need people to trust me because if they don't trust me, they're not going to. To take my advice. They're not going to get involved in the places I tell them to get involved. There's not going to be any strategy to the ways that people are formulating their resistance or their opposition to rising authoritarianism. So it matters a great deal that I am right in the things that I'm saying and that it's accurate at least. I mean, I'm not saying my takes are always Right. And of course, like you said, I make mistakes sometimes and I will go back and correct myself. But I mean, you know, I've, I've been an American history person for 20 years now, so I do have a pretty big base of knowledge.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Decent. Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

But I am going to go back before I say a word and like double check my dates. Double check. Like, was this person in the House or the Senate? You know, what was the bill number? Like, I am going to do all of that and that takes a lot of digging. Like, I don't, I don't think it's on purpose necessarily, but going through congressional records is. Everything is very scattered. Nothing is in one place.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

You're checking 14 different, you know, resources, congress.gov and all these other things. And I have to collate all of that and put it together and it takes hours, you know. Hours.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

But it's my full time job now, so. Yeah, that's fine. But when I was working full time, when I had like a corporate job, I was in big tech up until June of last year.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Wow.

[Amanda Nelson]

So it was, it was just a lot of hours. It was 18, 19 hour days. I slept almost zero. I mean, it's better now, but.

[Andrew Sage]

Okay.

[Amanda Nelson]

But yeah, I mean I am very dedicated to making sure that the thing that I'm putting out there is trustworthy, is not emotionally reactive. Like I'm. Yeah, I think that is something that separates me from other creators, especially on the left is I'm not trying to get a rise out of you. I'm not trying to make you.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's so dope panic.

[Amanda Nelson]

I'm not doing that. Like that should terrify every American. I'm not doing that shit. You're an adult. If you want to be terrified, be terrified. I don't care. Like your feelings are your own problem.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

I'm telling you what's happening, how it's rooted in American history and what you can do about it and like what people have done about it in the past. When similar things have happened, something similar has probably happened. And so like. Yeah, that's my strategy.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. Again, very much so. Like a kinsman, like, like spirit in that. Yeah. Like I'm not, I'm, I'm ultimately an educator, you know, I'm saying. And I'm like, I'm really just trying to onboard you to be like, hey bro, like these people aren't smarter than you, you know?

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Lastly, like I would ask because you kind of just brought it up like some sort of like historical parallels as far as like Lessons from. From the past. Like, do you have any that, like, come to mind? Like off the head?

[Amanda Nelson]

Oh, yes. How much time do you have? No, I know people always, always, always want to talk about Nazi Germany right now. And like, I get it. Okay. I'm not saying that there are no commonalities. Of course there are. It's so important to me that we focus on the commonalities that we have in American history because we are so different from Germany.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Germany was like, very ethnically homogeneous. It's a tough. It' country compared to ours.

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

They don't have the same issues that we had. They had. They. You know, Nazi Germany came out of very particular time, place and people. We are a different time, place and people. So there's that, like, study Nazi German if you want. I'm not saying don't. But if you're going to study Nazi Germany. But you're not going to look at the Black Panthers and you're not going to look at the civil rights movement and you're not going to look at Reconstruction and you're not going to look at Jim Crow reconstruction.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes. Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

You're not going to come up with any viable solutions.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

Because resistance in Germany came from the Soviet Union coming in with Soviets, didn't. You know? But resistance in America comes from black and indigenous and Latino people.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes. And we did it. Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes. And labor movements and all it. So you have got to become more familiar with your own people. With your own people. And that's a little difficult in America. Right. Because we're like, you know, we're not really a melting pot. We're more of like a weird mixed chopped salad.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

But we tend to be in our little on purpose, our separated, segregated neighborhoods and our segregated schools. And we don't associate with. And we do like Black History Month and then we forget to read about any other point of black history outside of that.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And we'll do like Indigenous Peoples Day on Columbus Day.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And never read another piece of history. And all that is a disservice because those are the effective resistance methods that we can take and carry forward as we move through this administration. And we will. We will come out on the other side.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

But like, I love it.

[Amanda Nelson]

Even something like the Gilded Age.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Right.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like that, I think, is one of the most important historical analogs. The late 19th century. Because in the Gilded Age, we had an oligarchy. There was no income tax. Like.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

The Rockefellers. There was so much corruption at every level of government.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Jim Crow was on the Rise was being born out of that era.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Labor unions were coming online and all of that. Like, it's. There's so many parallels, but we made so many mistakes then. We made so many. We let the Klan come back. Our labor unions were segregated.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

Purposefully segregated.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

We got lots of things like the FDA and government regulations and things like that that were born out of all this corruption. But then we went way too far into scoldy moralizing and got Prohibition, which was a terrible idea. So we need to avoid that. We need to avoid leaving behind people like we did during the Gilded Age, because that's what Americans tend to do. We like momentum, we like forward. We like progress. And we leave behind all these people who've been oppressed and marginalized, and we just ignore them. So we need to look at our own history and learn not just from the effective resistance of the past, but the mistakes we made in the past. And we can't really do that looking at Nazi Germany because that ended with a bullet.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Those weren't our mistakes. Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Nelson]

He killed himself, and then we, you know, set up NATO and left.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And that's not what we need to do here.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

My biggest gripe was like, yeah, like, especially with, like, the leftover Nazis was like, we didn't go hard enough on you. You know what I'm saying? Like, we should have, like, really stamped it out, but you really cooking, man. Like, I mean, you already nailed it, I see. Yeah. Gilded Age slave catchers. Like, to me, this is, like, this some Dread Scott shit to me.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? And, yeah. All that, like, because that was like, we're saying, okay, who's a citizen?

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? That was the Dred Scott question. Right. Or just like, you know, states rights versus federal rights, Marlboro versus Madison. Like, all this stuff like you said, like, we've already fleshed out. That in my mind is playing. But I. But the Gilded Age thing is, like, nah, dude. Like, you cooking. Because, man, you got me all excited. My history bag. I'm excited now. I wish you could see my toes tapping. But, like, yeah, because I'm like, okay, you think I like the Pinkertons? You think about, like, the ways for which a collective movement being broke in the sense that, like, you had these, you know, steel workers in Pittsburgh that would strike, and then they would just go get freed slaves to be like, well, y' all could go do this, and it's like, man, what the hell you want me to do dog. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, exactly.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes. I mean, like you had any choice.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I don't have no choice, you know what I'm saying? It's like, to the regime, like, touche was a really good move, you know what I'm saying? As somebody trying to hold on to a regime. But like, with what, like, to your point, like, it's. It's always like. And this is the hard part for me, even talking about black history, which is something I want to come back to with, like, the cost of this is different for, like, African American communities. This. This costs us more, you know what I'm saying? It's going to, in the long run, cost us all, don't get me wrong. But what you're asking, especially at that moment, going back to the gilded days, what you're asking me to step into, we're not ponying up the same amount of money here, you know what I'm saying? So I just wonder, like, you said, like, what are those lessons? Me living in Los Angeles, like, you know, with the ice rage, being a part of, like, deeply student in the Latino community, like, what's the strategic. Because, you know, black people get out there, police open fire.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? Like, they gonna kill us. You know what I mean? So, like, yeah, 100%. Is this strategic by us? Like, kind of like, well, we'll be in the back row, like, what's happening here? You know I'm saying, like, so what are those lessons? What are ways for which we can, like, like you said, like, look at how America has responded to its, you know, hydra. That's. That's rearing itself again, is an interesting thing, but I think the last thing before I ask you about predictions is this thing about. About black history, this being Black History Month. Hmm. So the hard part for me is like, especially with, like, children, like, I taught high school for six years, you know, when. When discussing blackness or like you said indigenous day or whatever, like, it's this carve out, right. That is, you know, a corrective force. Right. But the carve out a lot of times tends to just be like, trivia, like vocabulary, like, oh, did you know that this person.

[Robert Evans]

Did you.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Do you know what I'm saying? And it's like, of course, because you're trying to, like, I get it, you're trying to whet the appetite, you know what I'm saying? But it's a carve out. To me, that's not in the context. It's not context embedded it's not a part of history. It's this carve out that's taught as trivia, you know what I'm saying?

[Amanda Nelson]

And like an afterthought.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Or an add on.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's like an afterthought, but then, like you said, but then never talked about again. As if, like, well, it's like, well, we were there the whole time. We're in every chapter we're in. We're in all the semesters you're about to talk through. Like, we was at all of them. You know what I'm saying? And it's just like, so we're just gonna not point at the black people for the rest of the year when you talk about this while there needs to be. And of course, I'm a product of it. Like, the specificity of a moment to say, I just want to stop right here and say that this person was this. You know what I'm saying? But, like, what are ways for which we can re embed the female voices, the indigenous voices, the black voices back into just the curriculum period, which is bastardized by what maga's trying to say, you know what I'm saying? Like the, like of the, the bastardized version of that that is clearly obviously racist. You know what I'm saying? It's like, which. So like, a lot of times we start talking about this, they'd be like, you know what? That's our point. And I'm like, hold up. Cause that's not your point, Jose. That's not the point you making. Right. The point I'm making is saying we were there the whole time.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

And. And I would love to have the dignity of being there the whole time, you know what I'm saying? So I, so I, I say that to echo your point about, like, we're just gonna stop talking about natives after indigenous. Like they was there. You know what I'm saying?

[Amanda Nelson]

Like, yeah, and it matters.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Today, like, I. Yes, I just got into it on threads or Instagram, whatever, some platform with some leftist. Which is. I'm not. It's not a criticism of leftism. Yeah, but he was saying, like, he was criticizing Kamala Harris's campaign. Fine. I. I don't care how you. But he was a white guy, and he was saying she kept making pitches about what she could do for the black community, but she never said what she could do for white people. And I was like, my good bitch, you made that up. Like, she went on all black podcast once. And you mean that she didn't Care about white people.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah. And like, second of all, what part of like first time home buyer tax credit signals to you? I only care about black people.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like the idea that policies or history books or whatever that have black people in them or that would benefit black people, only benefit black people.

[Gia Giudice]

Is.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Is one of the reasons why we're in this stupid situation that we're in now because.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's bizarre.

[Amanda Nelson]

The recognition of how black and indigenous and Latino people have been in this country since the beginning. The Spanish have been here longer than the English. Spanish has been spoken in this country longer than English.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

To put a pin in that. That raises everyone's boats. Like policies that benefit our marginalized communities.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Benefit everyone else.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Like the rising tide truly does raise all of the ships.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And we, we can't get to an understanding of that without understanding the history. Because like, take for example, what we're dealing with right now. Mostly direct attacks on the 14th Amendment, which is a Reconstruction era amendment.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It was. That was because us guys.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yes. And why.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And attacks on the Voting Rights act of 1965, which was. Which was passed to make. To ensure that all black citizens could vote for us. So the things that are fucking up white people right now are because you don't understand why we got them in the first place.

[James Stout]

Yes.

[Amanda Nelson]

That's my rant you cooking.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

No, you nailed it. That's. That was my exact point. You're making my exact point where I'm just like, no, this is like, like we were here, we're part of the country. So last thing is like, besides the prediction of not counting Trump going to try to cancel the midterms. Which is like. I was like, I don't know why we talking about midterms. He gonna try to cancel. But besides that, like, who should we. Who should we have our eye on? What do you think?

[Amanda Nelson]

Oh, for the midterms. Over 28 midterms. Okay. I think we're gonna win the midterms.

[Robert Evans]

Okay.

[Amanda Nelson]

I think that the decentralization, the. The federalization of elections, the way that every state runs their own elections, I don't see a logistical way for him to prevent that from happening, period. He could tell.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

States not to have elections. I suppose the only ones that would obey him would be red states, in which case we would have a congressional election of only Democrats that go to the Hill.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Fine.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Sounds good to me. That's how we got the Reconstruction era amendment. It was the conservatives in the south stayed home.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And didn't Go to Congress. So, fine. But I don't think that's going to happen because there are too many Republicans in red states who want to run for governor and who want to be senators, and they're already having fundraisers. So I do think we're going to have the midterms, and I think we're going to win. And I'm basing that on the special elections that we've been having, for sure.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Since January of last year. And it's not just, you know, I mean, special elections are different.

[Sophie Lichterman]

We've.

[Amanda Nelson]

We're like, plus 13 on average over performance in special elections. That's not going to replicate itself in the midterms because special elections tend to be, like, very partisan. People are very dedicated to coming out. But in the last couple of special elections that we've had in Texas, New Jersey, Louisiana, Republicans have flipped.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And that is where I'm like, oh, it's in the back. Like, maybe the majority won't be huge. I don't know that it's going to be a landslide because they're going to fuck with it. Whatever. Voter suppression is real. But I do think that at least the House, we're going to win and the Senate, I'm looking at. I think Alaska is super interesting. Ohio, North Carolina, for sure. Everybody loves Roy Cooper in North Carolina. Texas, whether you like Jasmine Crockett or Talarico, either one of them are interesting. You know, Texas could be interesting. So, yeah, I think it's.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Love it.

[Amanda Nelson]

If I were a Republican, I would be very nervous.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You better be, because, like, you can't pretzel yourself any worse. Like, I think people forget that, like, ambition didn't die when Trump became president. People still are ambitious, and at some point, you gonna realize, like, shit ain't working, homie. Which brings us to the last one, if we got time. Yeah. Let me ask you about 20, 28. What do you think?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Third term?

[Amanda Nelson]

It's too. No. God, no. He's not gonna make it that long.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I was like, he's gonna. I keep telling all my friends, I was like, I think you have to accept that he's gonna die in office anyway.

[James Stout]

But, yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, he's not gonna make that. It's gonna be. It's gonna be Vance. Although I think he'll have some competition maybe for Marjorie Taylor Greene. I think she's gonna try to run.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I think Marjorie's running. What about Tuck, about Tucker?

[Amanda Nelson]

I think he might go for, like, a cabinet position.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You think so?

[Amanda Nelson]

He's like a stupid little bow Tie. I don't think anybody would vote for him. I don't know.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I really don't like him. But.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, he's so unlikable. But so is J.D. vance, to be honest. Anyway, on our side, you know, it's so early.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I think that there are people who are starting to poke their heads up now. Like, I think Ossoff in Georgia is starting to be a little. And he's the best fundraiser in Senate. So the two best fundraisers are actually a ticket I would really be interested in, which is Ossoff and aoc. They're the two best fundraisers in the party. And that's a ticket I would not be upset about.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know, Damn. AOC ticket would be crazy.

[Amanda Nelson]

I'm not necessarily on the Newsom train. I'm not going to lie. I'm not really on the Newsom train, sister.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Tell you a little secret about how California feels about Newsom.

[Amanda Nelson]

I know, I know.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Which is not so much of a secret.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah. Not so hot.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Now.

[James Stout]

We.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

We definitely be looking at our, like, our, like red. Our orange counties are our red states. And they'd be like, Gavin Newsom. We're like, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Amanda Nelson]

Hard agree.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, no, for real. Same hard agree. Yeah.

[Amanda Nelson]

Anyway, I appreciate that he was one of the first high profile Democrats to stand up to Trump in this administration. I appreciate that. That's not good enough reason for me to make a president.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Not the president. Yeah. I'm like, you're not. Yeah. You're not a flaming bag of shit.

[Andrew Sage]

It.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I got it.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You know what I'm saying? Like, you're a decent human.

[Amanda Nelson]

You're not a fascist.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, you're not a fascist. Like, okay, but you willing to get on a podcast because for some reason you want, like, I don't understand where your. Where's your code? You know? And also I'm like, I don't know, man. You know, a grown man like that still slicking his hair back is. This is odd to me.

[Amanda Nelson]

That's gonna do it for some like 60 year old ladies in the suburbs though. He's gonna have like a Kennedy thing, you know, like, oh, he's so handsome. But that's. But so is also a. Ossof is ossof's handsome. So.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah, maybe go with that guy. I don't know, bro. Yeah. Now you just. I feel like you like, I feel like here's the thing, here's the thing about. We need to end this. But the thing about Gavin to me is I'm like, There's this just, like, sheen to where it's just like, oh, you need to be liked. And, like, you know, it's this whole, like, l. A transplant thing. Like, you know, where everybody's like, oh, it's so Hollywood. And we're like, natives are like, those are all transplants. We're not like that. You know what I'm saying? So. But to me, he just has that to where I'm just like, oh, you need to be the prom king. You need to, like, oh, you need this too much. You feel me? Like. And to me, I'm like, ooh, I don't. I can't. I can't ride like this. You need.

[Robert Evans]

You.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You need. You need to be popular too much.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, I prefer a president.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I can't trust you.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, they need to resent being there a little bit. I feel like it needs to feel.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like you got to, like. You got to kind of be like, I'll be all right if it don't work out.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah. You know, there needs to be a sense of service, not a sense of entitlement.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Man, my camera turns off every half hour. I don't know why I still have to figure that out anyway. But that's a good sign for us to wrap this up. Please. Can you drop all the mentions for your stuff so that these people can enjoy what I enjoy?

[Amanda Nelson]

It's Amanda's mild takes everywhere. Except not Blue Sky. I can't deal with that. But everywhere else.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah. Amanda's mild takes with the Petty's burg address. It's brilliant. Thank you so much for your time.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thank you.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

We appreciate it. Y' all go, please. You know she be over there dropping gems. It's just a good time.

[Andrew Sage]

Fourteen years in prison for killing a young woman. A 15 year sentence for a crash that caused three deaths.

[James Stout]

Twelve and a half years for killing.

[Andrew Sage]

A child and critically injuring her mother. All true stories, all caused by marijuana. Impaired drivers. No matter what you tell yourself, if.

[James Stout]

You feel different, you drive different. So if you're high, just don't drive. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council.

[Garrison Davis]

Welcome to Dirty Rush.

[Amanda Nelson]

The truth about sorority life, the good, the bad, and the sisterhood, with your.

[Gia Giudice]

Hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent, and Jennifer Kessler.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Rush. The recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and act actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers.

[Garrison Davis]

Some call it the best time of.

[Gia Giudice]

Their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Amanda Nelson]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals.

[Sophie Lichterman]

What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses?

[Gia Giudice]

From Alpha to Omega, we're taking you inside sorority row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm Brandon Kyle Goodman, the host of the Tell Me Something Messy podcast. I wanted to create a safe, comfy.

[Andrew Sage]

Place for all of us to talk.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

About sex, relationships, and what it means to be human.

[Andrew Sage]

And, baby, my fantastic guests are bringing their mess to share with the class.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like singer songwriter Duran Bernard, suggesting we.

[Andrew Sage]

Reinstate adult sleepovers with friends.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling your. You know what I'm saying?

[James Stout]

I don't like.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I mean, granted, I might be doing. But, you know, like. And I think it's important for those examples of that, of us just being gentle with one another because the world and the people in it already finding brand new ways to whip our ass Every single day 1,000%. So the least we could do is make strides to handle each other in a way that is a bit more.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, with.

[Robert Evans]

That's.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

That's with care and a bit more mindful. Listen to Tell me something Messy on.

[Garrison Davis]

The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcast.

[James Stout]

This is Ryder Strong and I have a new podcast called the Red Weather.

[Amanda Nelson]

It was many and many a year.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Ago in a kingdom by the sea.

[Andrew Sage]

In 1995, my neighbor Anna Trainor disappeared from a commune.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It was hard to wrap your head around.

[Andrew Sage]

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

[Robert Evans]

So, no, I am not your guru.

[Andrew Sage]

And back then, I lied to my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody.

[Gia Giudice]

There were years, Ryder, where I could.

[Garrison Davis]

Not say your name.

[James Stout]

I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out what actually happened.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Isn't it a little bit weird that.

[Andrew Sage]

They obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend?

[Amanda Nelson]

They have had this case for 30 years.

[Gia Giudice]

I'll teach you.

[Andrew Sage]

Sons of come around here and my wife, boom, boom. This is the red weather.

[James Stout]

Listen to the red Weather on the.

[Andrew Sage]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Garrison Davis]

This is It Could Happen. Here at Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by Sophie Lichterman, James Stout, and Robert Evans. This episode we're covering the week of February 4th to February 11th. It was the super bowl wasn't that fun. I heard it was streaming on Peacock this year, so I booted up my Peacock account, went to the sports section and was surprised at how few Americans there were and how many other flags there were. And I do not remember this much skating typically at previous. The previous super bowl shows or the ski jumping. But I mean, I was. It was still fun to watch people compete.

[Gia Giudice]

Uh huh.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

It's just because I was watching the Winter Olympics. Get it.

[Gia Giudice]

I did, I did, I did get it.

[Robert Evans]

Good work, Gar. No fun stuff.

[James Stout]

What's your favorite Winter Olympics event, Garrison?

[Garrison Davis]

As a Canadian, honestly, the ski jumping is pretty exciting. They. They really fly.

[James Stout]

Yeah, they do.

[Gia Giudice]

That video of that guy that went viral that did like a under 6 minute mile on skis. Uphill.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, going uphill.

[Sophie Lichterman]

That was crazy.

[James Stout]

To be clear, he's not going for a mile. Like he just goes uphill. Like the whole course is like a mile. Ish. Well, but yeah, still, cross country skiers have insane VO2 maxes. Cross country ski when I get the chance. It's fun, but I don't go that fast.

[Garrison Davis]

But no, we do need to discuss the actual super bowl halftime show, actually. Well, no, not the actual one, the other one. The all American halftime show.

[James Stout]

Oh, maybe I'll just say the kid who Bad Bunny gave his grammy to was not the same child who you saw being abducted by ice in a little blue bunny hat.

[Gia Giudice]

No, it was supposed to symbolize young Benito.

[Garrison Davis]

Him.

[James Stout]

Yes, yes.

[Gia Giudice]

Not anything else.

[Robert Evans]

It really was not.

[Gia Giudice]

There was a lot of underlying messages in that show that were very important. But it would be weird.

[Robert Evans]

It would be weird if he put in a kid that looked like the five year old that was abducted in prison by ice to give him a gram.

[Amanda Nelson]

It makes sense.

[Robert Evans]

That would have been really off putting.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Would not have been a cool move.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, that would. That would have been bad.

[Gia Giudice]

Just to say it was a great halftime show. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[Garrison Davis]

And now here's a clip of the all American halftime show, the real halftime show with our favorite Kid Rock. Ready?

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Somebody make some noise in here.

[Robert Evans]

There's like, nobody there.

[Garrison Davis]

This is not. This is not from the show. This is from Silicon Valley. This was. This was a joke that they did on the TV show Silicon Valley, which looks almost exactly like Hilarious. The Turning Point halftime show.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I was about to say. I didn't hear that.

[James Stout]

Aside from the jorts. The.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I thought that was a new angle. They did have more people in the crowd, but they were hired actors. But they did have more people in the crowd.

[Garrison Davis]

Shockingly, lines up.

[Gia Giudice]

Our colleague Molly Conger described his outfit as needed to run out to Home Depot to pick up us part for something.

[Amanda Nelson]

And I like, that's really cool because he's.

[Robert Evans]

He's in, like, shorts and a T shirt, has a wrist brace.

[James Stout]

It's great.

[Garrison Davis]

We'll get to Kid Rock in a sec, but let's start at the beginning, please. While watching the Turning Point stream, there was no indication where the show was being broadcast from or whether it was live. But four performers sang back to back to back, indicating the show was cut together from previously taped performances. Yes, the venue was this dark, narrow, rectangular room with high ceilings and studio lights. In the middle was a long stage with a small audience on either side, maybe 200 people, tops. But the show was introduced by none other than Jack Posobec, which I will show now.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Turning.

[Robert Evans]

Point USA All American halftime show.

[Garrison Davis]

And this one's for you, Charlie.

[Robert Evans]

Great stuff. So that's the stuff.

[James Stout]

446 down votes on Rumble.

[Amanda Nelson]

That's rough.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And I watched this. I will admit. I watched it after the actual halftime show because it was on YouTube and there was no reason to actually catch it during the Super Bowl. And by the way, the viewership number suggests that most people who did catch it watched it after the Super Bowl. Yes, because it's weird to pause or turn off the sound in the middle of the super bowl and pull up like a laptop or something to go watch the fucking Turning Point USA show.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah, it was really cumbersome, really, really antisocial behavior at the super bowl party. To turn off the stream, plug in your laptop, go to rumble.com if you are doing.

[Robert Evans]

Your kids have not talked to you in longer than they've been alive. Like they abandoned you before they were born.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, President Trump watched the actual super bowl halftime show.

[James Stout]

Of course he did.

[Gia Giudice]

There's photos of him watching it.

[Robert Evans]

He knows that this is loser shit. Yeah, it's just about the loser est loser shit that I have ever seen. And right after Jack Bosobic introduced cuts to this. You've got this black stage and there's like an amp on the stage and a guy walks up to it with a guitar.

[Garrison Davis]

Not a gu. Gilbert. Okay, some respect.

[James Stout]

That's Brantley. Okay, that's. That's Brantley.

[Robert Evans]

I was going to introduce his name afterwards, but. Garrison, you missed something important because Brantley Gilbert's band is where this guy is from. But the all electric guitar performance of the Star Spangled Banner is led by the great guitarist Spencer Wasdor. Wow.

[Gia Giudice]

Who was.

[Garrison Davis]

Where are they finding these guys?

[James Stout]

Is that a stage name or is that a.

[Robert Evans]

He's in Brantley Gilbert's band. Garrison, this all sounds like an I think you should leave sketch.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I'm making up these names.

[Garrison Davis]

The whole performance was that. I think you should leave sketch. Yeah, but no, it's beautiful. Electric guitar riff of the Star Spangled Banner opening the show.

[James Stout]

Do you have a clip for us, Garrison?

[Robert Evans]

No, I. I got a clip to play because there's a moment here. They had pyrotechnics during the show, of course, like the real show had, but they're not good. They were better for the kid rock performance. For the electric guitars. They're just kind of sad and they make a sad little popping sound. Well, again, a single man is playing guitar on stage.

[James Stout]

Jimi Hendrix played the Star Spangled Banner on guitar, but he was good at playing guitar, but he was one of.

[Robert Evans]

The best guitar players ever lived.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Yeah. A little different. It does seem like a high yardstick that they've chosen to measure themselves against.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, we'll talk about that in a sec. But I gotta show you guys, you just need to see the pop of these pyrotechnics just for a second. And you, the listener, needs to hear it. Is that it?

[Sophie Lichterman]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

It's giving village fireworks display.

[Robert Evans]

That's my.

[James Stout]

When I saw that, that was it. Oh, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Gia Giudice]

That's great. I don't know what you're talking about. I loved it.

[Robert Evans]

Per.

[James Stout]

Per.

[Robert Evans]

What you were saying earlier. There's a New York Times article, for fuck's sake. That the original title it was published under was the All American Halftime featured an electric anthem, unlike Hendrix. Now, they changed that title in the Reporter's Notebook article to what does a wailing electric take on the Star Spangled Banner mean?

[James Stout]

I'm glad that they are getting to the core of the issues. The publication that ignored all my pitches about Myanmar for several years.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, no, it's good. This is much more important. Let's listen to a quote from this article that I think we can all agree matters much more than a war in musical terms. Wozdorp's version of the Star Spangled Banner was conservative too. Despite the bent notes and feedback, it largely stuck to the melody and conveyed a reverent, if stubborn form of patriotism.

[Gia Giudice]

Jeez, I don't know. I kind of loved it. What do you mean? No, it was terrible.

[Amanda Nelson]

It was terrible.

[Gia Giudice]

Hard watch. Hard watch.

[Robert Evans]

That was the best part of it. I hate to say it, but unfortunately, the pyrotechnics were basically competent for the Kid Rock show, which might have been the only competent part of the Kid Rock show.

[James Stout]

Yeah, I want to hear the Kid Rock Show. I haven't.

[Garrison Davis]

I think there's some other hits from this, from this show, though, including. Including Brantley Gilbert's second song, which starts as a slow acoustic ballad and then abruptly changes into whatever this is.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

He's trying to rap.

[Amanda Nelson]

He's trying to rap. Oh, dear.

[Robert Evans]

He is. He is trying. He is, he is trying.

[Garrison Davis]

Small town. He said, she said. I'm not going to read into what those lyrics are trying to express.

[Gia Giudice]

Whoa.

[Garrison Davis]

But that was the second song. I. I do. I want to skip to the third act, which is Lee Bryce. He started his second song by saying, quote, charlie gave people microphones so that they could say what was on their mind. This is what's on mine. And this next song starts like a parody of a conservative country song. Here's. Here's the beginning.

[James Stout]

I just want to catch my fish.

[Andrew Sage]

Drive my truck, drink my beer.

[Robert Evans]

Not.

[Andrew Sage]

Wake up to all this stuff.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I don't wanna.

[Robert Evans]

I just wanna catch my fish.

[Garrison Davis]

I'm getting a little teary eyed, honestly. Let's just listen to that.

[Robert Evans]

The next part is insane.

[Garrison Davis]

The next line is.

[James Stout]

Okay, I'm coming at this rule.

[Garrison Davis]

This is the next line of the song. The same kind of gun I hunt with just killed another man. The only thing mine ever shot was a deer from a deer stand. That's the next line.

[Robert Evans]

Why are you including that man?

[Gia Giudice]

Lyrical genius.

[Garrison Davis]

Why would you do that in a song? And the way he sings it is so bizarre.

[Robert Evans]

It's. It's.

[James Stout]

Oh, it's about Charlie Kerr.

[Gia Giudice]

I would like to hear it.

[James Stout]

Oh, I'm just realizing.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

With just killed another man. Only thing mine ever shot.

[Garrison Davis]

What is he doing?

[Amanda Nelson]

What is happening?

[Robert Evans]

The gun violence problem is bad enough that he has to, like, make a comment about it existing and being depressing. He has to do that. But then immediately, because the next bit after this, most of the song is basically about I don't want to listen to the news.

[James Stout]

Correct.

[Robert Evans]

Like, I don't want to watch things that remind me of the very next verse. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Is I just want to cut my grass, feed my dog, wear my boots, not turn the TV on and sit and watch the news.

[James Stout]

That's an option for you. Like, you can do that. Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I was gonna say, that's very doable, friend.

[Robert Evans]

That's entirely doable for you folks.

[Gia Giudice]

You could do that.

[Garrison Davis]

And I'm sure he is, but this is what he's scared of hearing on the news.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Be told if I tell my own daughter that little boys ain't little girl.

[James Stout]

Oh, yeah, there it is.

[Garrison Davis]

Of the creek in this cancel your ass world.

[James Stout]

But then he said it. He put it in a song.

[Gia Giudice]

Oh, my God, I almost choked.

[Andrew Sage]

Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Again, man. You're. You're being paid to sing about this.

[Garrison Davis]

It's amazing.

[James Stout]

In fact, it is your job because it's. It's. You're not there for your musical abilities.

[Robert Evans]

It's your. It's your presumably well paying job. Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

The. The whole repeated refrain of the song is, it's not so easy being country in this country nowadays. That's.

[James Stout]

You guys are in charge.

[Garrison Davis]

Tiger song.

[Gia Giudice]

Question, question. Who is at this event? How many people? Where is it?

[Garrison Davis]

About 200 paid attendees in Atlanta, Georgia, at a sound stage.

[Gia Giudice]

Paid attendees? Paid attendees.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Crucial.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay.

[James Stout]

A lot of, like, fresh Stetsons and like unbroken in boots in the audience.

[Garrison Davis]

Maybe so many cowboy hats in the audience. You don'.

[James Stout]

Yeah, it's like a bar in Jackson, Wyoming. I get the vibe.

[Garrison Davis]

So many of them. And you're like, you're in Atlanta. Not many people wear cowboy hats in Atlanta. I'm sorry, That's. It's not like Texas or Oklahoma.

[James Stout]

Yeah, no, I love. I love to see someone in a freshly purchased set.

[Garrison Davis]

And the next song after this, after this country one. Well, I mean, they're all country songs, but, like, the next song is what I think is a love song that. That goes, quote, sometimes I drink too much Sometimes I test your trust Sometimes I don't know why you stay with me I'm hard to love.

[Robert Evans]

Which, yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

It's related to the last song you were singing. Maybe a little bit.

[James Stout]

Sure. Maybe about.

[Garrison Davis]

About bullying your children.

[Robert Evans]

Wow.

[Gia Giudice]

Sick.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, man. But finally, finally, the main act, right. What we've all been waiting for. Kid Kid Rock. I'm gonna play a little over a minute for us. We're not gonna include all of this in the episode. We're just gonna. We're just Gonna include the I am a kid section. But I do need to show. Show this all to James.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Because this is fun. I think a lot about, like there's that Steve Goodman parody country song that you couldn't write today because it's better musically and less ridiculous than the actual country songs that we are hearing.

[Garrison Davis]

All right, James, are you ready?

[James Stout]

Always. My name is.

[Robert Evans]

I've never seen this before.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

All right, that's good.

[Robert Evans]

Now that's enough. That's more than enough.

[Garrison Davis]

There's a lot to talk about.

[James Stout]

Yeah, we gotta unpack some of this.

[Gia Giudice]

He was better at the rnc.

[Garrison Davis]

He's flipping that. He's flipping that mic non stop. He loves that move.

[Gia Giudice]

But his name is Kid.

[James Stout]

But that's how he got the wrist injury.

[Robert Evans]

I will say. The first guys to play had a mic with a pair of brass knuckles built into it, which I did. Like, I think we do need a version of that. That's a full knuckle duster from World War I. So it's got the trench knife on the other side.

[James Stout]

Perfect. Yeah, we can use the knife and then you flip it. Yeah. At least take a risk. Don't be a coward every time you flip them up.

[Amanda Nelson]

Yeah, Take a risk.

[Robert Evans]

Be a man.

[Garrison Davis]

As the Kid Rock lights turn on, he explosively jumps onto the stage. White fur coat, acid washed jeans, black fedora. Yeah, I used to be a piece of shit.

[Robert Evans]

Jeans.

[James Stout]

Garrison. These are jorts. They are cut off above the knee.

[Gia Giudice]

Jorts.

[James Stout]

Jorts.

[Gia Giudice]

And second correction, it was a white fur coat. Vest.

[Andrew Sage]

Coat.

[Amanda Nelson]

Vest.

[James Stout]

It's a gilet. It's a vest.

[Robert Evans]

It's a vest. And I should note also that his fedora did not have the safari flaps. I repeat, it did not have the safari flaps.

[James Stout]

But it is leather. Like, like a shiny black leather. Not a breathable hat.

[Garrison Davis]

It's beautiful. It's beautiful to see. It is really. It really is. And I think you should leave. Sketch come to life.

[James Stout]

It's so good.

[Robert Evans]

It's so good.

[Amanda Nelson]

He just.

[Garrison Davis]

He just jumps around flipping that mic.

[Gia Giudice]

How long does he perform? How many songs do we get?

[Garrison Davis]

He gets like two or three songs. None of the audio for this song matches what we're seeing on stage.

[Gia Giudice]

Completely out of sync.

[Garrison Davis]

The syncing is totally off. Leading a lot of people to suspect that. That it was. It was lip synced on stage horribly. We'll get to that in a sec. But the next song began with a two minute prelude featuring the cello and violin.

[James Stout]

Which is it one of those, like. It's just the frame of A cello.

[Garrison Davis]

Oh, James, you'll see.

[James Stout]

I'm gonna see a fucking offense to God. That's a real cello. Wow.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[James Stout]

That's an interesting outfit.

[Robert Evans]

Jealous. Dressed Kinda like Ben Franklin dressed like that.

[James Stout]

Yeah. One of the three musketeers is playing cello. For those of you listening at home, wait.

[Andrew Sage]

Gentlemen, please welcome our brother, Robert Richie.

[Garrison Davis]

Robert Richie is Kid Rock. That's his real government name. They reintroduce them under his legal name name for the second song.

[Robert Evans]

Kid Rocks are not born, they're made.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Those people who introduced him, what was their. That was it for them?

[Garrison Davis]

Unclear.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Garrison Davis]

They only existed on screen to introduce Kid Rock as Kid Rock the first time. And then as Rich Russell, Richie Russell, whatever his name, Robert, Richard, Robert, whatever his real name is. That's the only time they appeared was to introduce Kid Rock both times. Now, after the show, it was revealed that this whole thing was pre taped on a soundstage in Atlanta. And a few days later, Kid Rock released a video addressing the rumors that his performance was lip synced, which he denies.

[James Stout]

You know, we taped it and then.

[Andrew Sage]

They sent me a first cut and my comment was, the sink is off. They were trying to line up. First off, if we would have done it, if we would have recorded it and then. And then played like we were singing it, lip synced it, it would have been pie. It would have been pie to line up. It was very difficult for them because.

[James Stout]

Somebody clearly wasn't super familiar with the song.

[Andrew Sage]

Also, when I asked him, I go, you know, Freddy raps that song with me, my dj, and they're like, he does what? And I'm like, oh, no. I'm like, yeah. Do we have any cutaways of Freddy and. And they.

[James Stout]

No, they didn't.

[Andrew Sage]

No, he wasn't. We lit up.

[James Stout]

No, he didn't even have a light.

[Andrew Sage]

Up any TV time.

[James Stout]

No, sorry. I mean, you can see.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Can see my silhouette.

[James Stout]

So they don't have that footage now.

[Andrew Sage]

It's extremely difficult for them to line up.

[James Stout]

The sink could have been done.

[Andrew Sage]

If we had more time, I'm confident.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

They could have got it right.

[Gia Giudice]

Let's pour one out for Freddy. Kid, DJ, no screen time.

[Garrison Davis]

So Mr. Rock said that Turning Point was having trouble lining up the audio with the visuals, in part because the song is actually performed vocally by two people going back and forth.

[James Stout]

Wow.

[Garrison Davis]

And Turning Point did not have a camera on the other vocalist. So that's why it looks weir when there's obviously vocals being heard. But Mr. Rock isn't singing.

[Robert Evans]

And again, the reason why no one at Turning Point is familiar with Kid Rock's music is that even they don't like Kid Rock's music.

[Garrison Davis]

And Mr. Rock demonstrated how this is, you know, supposed to go in this video with. With his DJ, which we do need to see. 30 seconds up.

[Robert Evans]

Thank you. Oh.

[James Stout]

Oh, thanks, Garrett.

[Gia Giudice]

Garrett, I love you so much.

[Robert Evans]

No, I'm sorry. Sophie, we need to have a conversation about this. This is in violation of several rules the company has set.

[James Stout]

I just want to call out the fact that there is a pike behind them. And I do mean the fish that has been taxidermied. Yeah, not what you normally expect.

[Robert Evans]

I would have expected the other kind of pike behind Garrison.

[Garrison Davis]

No, that seems like Mr. Rock's abode. Actually. This feels very on brand for him.

[James Stout]

Is that a drone?

[Garrison Davis]

No, it's a deer antler turned into a candlestick.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it looks like a deer antler turned into a candlestick.

[James Stout]

Classy. Okay, maybe that's.

[Robert Evans]

Although from a distance, it does kind of look like a bad 3D printing of Deep Space Nine.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, it's for my hookers all tricking out in Hollywood.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It's for my hoods of the world misunderstood.

[James Stout]

I said it's all good.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah. And it's all in fun.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

No.

[James Stout]

Oh, dear. Man, I'm having a physical reaction. I. I've cringed with every muscle in my body.

[Garrison Davis]

Here's how he explains how it's supposed to go.

[Andrew Sage]

So he's filling those words for me so I can bang my head. Keep going and carrying on. Now when I'm doing that, you see.

[James Stout]

Me, I'm all over the stage.

[Andrew Sage]

I'm flipping the mic.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

I'm down here, I'm over here back.

[Robert Evans]

Boom.

[Andrew Sage]

I know these guys had a difficult time getting that sink together, so I have nothing but good things to say. Not only about turning things point, but the production team that they work with on this and other events they've done.

[Gia Giudice]

My favorite part about live music is when you post a over 4 minute clip video explaining how 4 minute, 50 second video about how it was supposed to go and explaining to people things that don't actually exist.

[Garrison Davis]

No, his whole delivery sounds like a Tim Robinson bit. It's. It's. It's so beautiful.

[Gia Giudice]

Incredible.

[Garrison Davis]

The Bad Bunny halftime Show averaged 135.4 million viewers during the show's time slot. And Apple Music claims it's now the most watched show in super bowl history. Meanwhile, TPUSA's show attracted upwards of 6.1 million concurrent live viewers. On Turning Point, USA's YouTube channel. Due to licensing restrictions, Turning Point was unable to stream the show on X, the Everything app, as they originally planned.

[Gia Giudice]

Which got announced like an hour before, right before.

[James Stout]

But that's probably why they didn't hit 135 million, because 129 of them were waiting.

[Garrison Davis]

Otherwise they would have got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The All American Halftime show now boasts 23 million views on their YouTube and rumble pages combined. The Bad Bunny show is 70 million. A lot of these views are also people like me and other, other researchers for sure. And it's just, you know, curious Americans who are, who are interested in what they had to throw together. But a footage from inside Trump's super bowl party shows that even he did not turn into the All American Halftime Show. Now it's time for you to tune into these ads. Shall we do the real news now?

[James Stout]

Sure.

[Robert Evans]

So on Monday, February 9, 2026, about three days before we recorded this, there was a student led walkout protesting federal immigration arrests and protesting in large part last year's massive ICE actions in Chicago. And students from a number of different high schools walked out. This included students from East Aurora High School where there was a notable clash is the word, or skirmish is the word. Like skirmish is what Shaw Local News described it as between protesters and police. There's video and at least from the limited clip of video we have, I wouldn't call it a skirmish. I would call it police getting pissed and assaulting some kids. But we don't see the rest of the interaction. This is apparently something that went on for a couple of hours. So I don't know, like what led up to this. I can tell you the video shows what looks like some high school kids walking in kind of a line outside of their high school. There's some police by the police are clearly talking to or maybe yelling at one of the kids. And then as the video comes in, an officer just charges in and tackles hard, like a running tackle a teenage boy, like a child smaller than him. Which leads to several other police officers grabbing kids. At least one student punches a police officer in the head while the officer is on top of his friend beating his friend. The police only responded by saying, like, look, you know, we had to act. A student punched a police officer. From the Shah Local article. The police department said the officer who was punched was transported to a local hospital for medical attention for his injuries. They don't show he and his colleagues like literally tackling kids first before they get hit. If somebody tackles my friend next to me, I might Start punching. That's just life. Yeah. And it's. This is kind of an ongoing story at the moment. I don't know, like, what. What's going to wind up being the result of this, but it inspired, at least initially, a lot of anger. And there have been further protests as a result of the police violence. Students in the area are now demanding the resignation of the police chief in East Aurora. The police have not really, like, acknowledged those demands yet. I don't know if this is going to turn into, like a larger protest movement. There's some signs that maybe it will, that there may be further walkouts, specifically as a result of the police violence. But this is a situation we'll be watching, obviously, seeing police violently beating kids for, you know, speaking for doing the thing they should be doing in high school, which is experimenting with believing things and taking stands.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So we'll be watching this to see kind of what results next. But that's. That's sort of where we are at the moment.

[James Stout]

Yeah. That video is pretty brutal. Let's talk a little bit more about some immigration stuff. Let's start with. Let's start with policing, shall we? I have reviewed the police report for the ICE officer who in late January negligently discharged his issued handgun in a hotel room. Bradley Shaver was attempting to fix a back strap from his Glock. I'll quote the report here. With his back facing room 320 and the firearm pointed in the area of Bradley's torso, he attempted to remove the backstrap that was currently on the firearm while it was still loading. At some point, the firearm discharged. Luckily, the occupant of that room had just checked into the hotel and was walking to their room when the shot was fired, so there was no one injured. I will quote again from the report. Initially, the agent thought the gunshot came from somewhere else and he yelled shots fired and then told his wife he had to go and hang up. Schaeber then felt heat on the left side of his body, looked down and saw the damage to his shirt and realized the shot shot had come from his own weapon. He said the round went through his sweatshirt and the shirt underneath, but did not penetrate his Under Armour compression layer or injure him. It seems like this person was attempting to repair or remove a part from his gun that was still loaded and he didn't think to. To unload the gun.

[Robert Evans]

All of this is stuff you shouldn't do, right?

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

You have to check before you do stuff to a gun to make sure it's unloaded and even when you've checked to make sure it's unloaded, you should still act like it's loaded and do stuff like not have your finger on the trigger and make sure it's clear of a holster so that there's nothing that like especially like a leather holster where maybe stuff could get bowed in and pull the trigger. You just don't do any of the things he was doing with a gun, especially if you're a cop. But also you do all the things he did with a gun if you're a cop. Cause this happens regularly.

[James Stout]

Yeah. This case. A 30 year veteran who had just returned after two years of retirement. I want to talk a little bit now about Liam Conejo Ramos. This is the 5 year old who was detained in Minneapolis last month. People will remember seeing images of him in like a blue bunny hat. Liam and his father were detained on 20 January in his driveway after returning from school. They were order released by Judge Fred Beery who wrote in his order quote, observing human behavior confir that for some among us, the perfidious lust for unbridled power and the imposition of cruelty in its quest know no bounds and are bereft of human decency and the rule of law be damned. You could tell the judge was incredibly pissed off at the government, I'll put it that way. DHS then attempted to expedite the removal of Conejo Ramos and his family, but the family were granted a continuance by his judge, Liam and his father. His father is Adrian Conejo Arias or Arias. I've seen like various permutations of his father's name. I think perhaps because some people doing reporting are not familiar with how last names are generally configured in the Spanish speaking world. So I'm not quite sure how his last name is pronounced. But Liam and his father entered in December of 2024 when they were detained. They were detained at Dilly. Dilly is a detention center for families. Right, Right. It is a place that I have reported on before. In my Darien follow up series I spoke about Primrose and Kimberly who were both detained at Dilly and they went into some detail about the conditions there. I'm glad to see that Dilly is getting more attention in sort of bigger, more legacy media outlets now. I also saw that there was a protest at Dilley seemingly while Liam was there. And we can see this because of drone footage of people walking out of the buildings and assembling in sort of spaces in between the buildings. And they can be heard Chanting in some of that footage. Now I want to move on to something I've seen DHS doing recently, which is they're trying to push back against the evidence that they are using schools and children as bait to detain non citizens. Right. I just spoke about how Liam was detained. Right? It was the fact that he was at school that allowed those agents to, to, to target his father.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

I believe they got Liam to knock on the door and his dad came out, which obviously was part of the reason that this particular detention was so controversial. DHS in a post on X said, quote, ice is not going to schools to arrest children. A dangerous illegal alien felon fleeing into a school or a child sex offender working as an employee may create a situation where an arrest is made to protect public safety. Criminals are no longer able to hide in America's schools to avoid arrest. Potus, Trump and Secretary Noem trusts our brave law enforcement to use common sense. We will not tie the hands of law enforcement officers. They must be allowed to protect children from public safety threats. Obviously if someone is a, a sex offender, they, they can't work at a school. Right? That's, that's just how background checks work. The DHS tweet includes a screenshot of a Houston Chronicle article which details how HISD has lost 4,000 students due to the ice crackdown.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Right.

[James Stout]

This is students who are for the most part afraid to come to school and they've seen a 22% decline in migrant student enrollment. Obviously. I just want to note that ICE has detained parents outside schools and a note of incident last year they detained a 15 year old disabled boy in Los Angeles. Finally, from me, I want to talk about some legislation that is being proposed in the state of Washington. The State of Washington's House Bill 2321 proposes legislation that focuses on what it calls blocking features that must be integrated into 3D printers to prevent their use in creating firearms. Blocking features are, I'm quoting here, a software controls process that deploys a firearms blueprint detection algorithm such that those features identify and reject print requests for firearms or illegal firearm parts with a high degree of reliability and cannot be overridden or otherwise defeated by a user with significant technical skill. What this would effectively do is either prevent the sale of 3D printers in Washington state or install state level spyware onto 3D printers which would obviously be able to be used for things far beyond firearms. And people have notably been 3D printing whistles a great deal in Minneapolis right there. So there's been lots of coverage of this I think it would be very naive for people to think that this would start and end with the creation of unknown registered firearms.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, no, they'll go. I mean, they'll do stuff. Shit like try to enforce games, workshops, copyrights, and stop it from printing models or whatever.

[James Stout]

Exactly. Right. Like it opens a whole world of IP enforcement in 3D printing. It more or less ends. The thing that I find beautiful about 3D printing is not that, like I can make little plastic things in my office. It's that it shows me that people will choose to create beautiful and innovative things even when there is nothing a profit incentive for doing so.

[Robert Evans]

Yes. And here's the thing. It would be a different discussion if this were a country where the only way to get a gun was to 3D print it, but it's not.

[James Stout]

Yes. Washington State.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[James Stout]

You do not have to drive that far from Washington state to a state where it would be perfectly legal to do a private party transfer in the Walmart parking lot.

[Robert Evans]

Yep. And also there's just a lot of guns in Washington. Like there are in Oregon. Like there is everywhere in the country. And to the extent that 3D printed firearms are used for crime, they tend to be used like specifically in gang crime, where if the 3D printed gun isn't available, the professional criminals will access a separate gun. Americans are not overwhelmingly using 3D printed firearms to shoot up schools. They're using perfectly normally purchased firearms to shoot up school schools.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

That's what we do.

[James Stout]

Because this country is full of guns. Yeah. The state of California is also pursuing a case against 3D printed firearms code hosting websites. California passed an extremely broad law last year that prohibits the hosting, distribution, and promotion of the, quote, unlawful manufacture of firearms. This has significant repercussions for the First Amendment. Right. Like the code itself is not a tangible thing.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thing.

[James Stout]

It's not a gun. It is speech. But in this case, it is the instructions that allow the machine to create gun. Right. Yeah. It appears that there are over a hundred other people indicted in this case. I'm guessing that those are probably the designers who posted their STLs for firearms on the catalog.

[Robert Evans]

I think that the evidence also suggests that's unlikely to hold up in court.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Because like, right now there's a case over the Kansas laws that are mandating, like, you have age basically restrictions on websites and the like. And there were laws. There was a lawsuit from, like, a mom who alleged that despite this, her kid was able to access a website that was located out of the state because it didn't have Any of these restrictions. And the judge in Kansas ruled like well our law doesn't restrict people in other states. They don't have to have like this, like that's. You can't actually enforce this.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So we'll see how it goes in California.

[James Stout]

But yeah, California's suing for damages in this case. It's a civil case on a criminal one.

[Robert Evans]

Sure.

[James Stout]

But still, I mean there have been a lot of cases about 3D printed guns and how they are covered under the First Amendment. So yeah, I'm going to keep an eye on this because I guess there are attacks on the first amendment from just about every angle right now. And I think we should pay attention to that. That is all I have. Shall we take a little break and then talk about pedophiles?

[Robert Evans]

Sure. I love talking. Talking about pedophiles.

[James Stout]

That's what we do.

[Amanda Nelson]

I don't.

[Robert Evans]

We're back. This is another, yet another episode of the Pedo Files.

[James Stout]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I volunteered to do this section. These are Epstein updates as of today, which is Wednesday. Yeah, February 11th. There were quite a few things.

[Robert Evans]

We just finished recording a four parter on him for Bastards. And there's more new shit. Yeah, it just keeps coming.

[Gia Giudice]

It is endless.

[Robert Evans]

It really is.

[Gia Giudice]

I want to start off which at the top of the week, Elaine Maxwell was supposed to speak to the House Oversight Committee and she was called in for questioning. And during a video call, just so folks know, she is serving a 20 year sentence for sex trafficking at a federal prison camp in Texas. But she invoked her fifth amendment right to avoid answering questions that would be self incriminating. This was expected but her lawyer's statement was interesting. So I'm going to read it to to the audience now. Members of the committee, on my advice, Glenn Maxwell respectfully invoke her fifth amendment right to silence and decline to answer your questions today, even though she would very much like to answer your questions, she must remain silent because Ms. Maxwell has a habeas petition currently pending that demonstrates that her conviction rests on a fundamentally unfair trial. For example, jurors lied during voirdeer to secure seats on the jury and the government promised immunity and then broke that promise. Newly disco's documents now demonstrate these facts conclusively. If this committee in the American public truly want to hear the unfiltered truth about what happened, there is a straightforward path. Ms. Maxwell is prepared to speak fully and honestly if granted clemency by President Trump.

[James Stout]

Sure.

[Gia Giudice]

Only she can provide the complete account.

[Garrison Davis]

My bad.

[Gia Giudice]

Some may not like what they Hear. But the truth matters. For example, both President Trump and President Clinton are innocent of any wrongdoing. Ms. Maxwell alone can explain why. And the public is entitled to that explanation. Thank you.

[Robert Evans]

Look, I'll talk to Donald Trump if I can get immunity for some things.

[Gia Giudice]

She's like, by the way, would love to speak.

[Robert Evans]

Gonna need immunity.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

The guy that could grant me clemency, I can vouch for that guy.

[Robert Evans]

That's the most doesn't commit crimes thing a person could possibly say.

[Gia Giudice]

Wild.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I'm moving on to. To another guy that was all over the Epstein files. Casey Wasserman.

[Robert Evans]

Casey was.

[Gia Giudice]

Robert just said that like he knew the guy.

[Robert Evans]

Oh yeah, no, that's what I always called him.

[Gia Giudice]

Casey Wasserman. He's the founder and CEO of Wasserman, which is a talent agency slash sports marketing agency. And the reason I'm bringing this up is for. For two reasons. There's two things I want to discuss here. The first one is that since this got announced, he's had major clients, major stars as well as athletes. Leads say that's gross and I'm not going to work with you anymore. And I've left the agency, which is fucking cool.

[Robert Evans]

Which is good. It's what you should do if you find out that you are working for someone in the Epstein files.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

Someone who was specifically communicating consistently with Epstein after his conviction.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Right.

[Garrison Davis]

There's a lot of people who are named in the files.

[Robert Evans]

A lot of random journalists whose articles got shared in the files or something that.

[James Stout]

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Big name stars here. We're talking like Chapel Rohn.

[Garrison Davis]

Chapel Roan.

[Amanda Nelson]

You're so annoying.

[Gia Giudice]

Like Chapel Roan was probably the first big name to be like ew, I'm out.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And another big part of this is Casey Wasserman is leading the Preparations for the 2028 Summer Olympic Games that are going to be located in Los Angeles. And per Fox LA, the LA 2028 board officially supported chair Casey Wasserman on Wednesday, rejecting calls for his recognition following an independent misconduct review. While multiple LA elected officials demanded he step down, the board cited his strong leadership and cooperations as reasons for his retention. Ew.

[Garrison Davis]

I can't believe the good name of the Olympics finally has a stain on its wreck.

[James Stout]

Right? Yeah. Who would have thought?

[Robert Evans]

Can you imagine the Olympics being associated with a bad man?

[Garrison Davis]

I love the Olympics. This sucks. How, how will I watch trampoline?

[Robert Evans]

Uh huh. What about luge? Wait, no. That's only in the way that's happening right now.

[James Stout]

That's already happening. Yeah, you can watch luge.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, you're right, you're right. The one good sport in the Olympics is already happening. So we're fine.

[James Stout]

We have to be clear on this. Luge has no links to the Jeffrey Epstein files that we know of.

[Garrison Davis]

The Italian luge Olympics. Completely clean, no problems.

[Gia Giudice]

Now I want to move on to probably the biggest story of the week, which is Attorney General Pam Bondi took heated questions from lawmakers in a competitive congressional hearing over the Justice Department's handling in the files related to Jeffrey Epstein that exposed sensitive private information about victims despite redaction efforts.

[Garrison Davis]

Per the ap, she, she frame mogged everyone at this hearing.

[Gia Giudice]

In my opinion, this was the most outrageously unprofessional, shameful, censurable and sickening congressional hearing in history. And she is a disgrace and disgusting. And yeah, I want to get into a little bit of it. I want to start by playing a clip from Representative Raskin. He's the Democratic Congressman from Maryland and he is the Democratic ranking House member of the Committee on the Judiciary.

[Andrew Sage]

You're running a massive Epstein cover up.

[Garrison Davis]

Right out of the Department of Justice. You've been ordered by subpoena and by.

[Andrew Sage]

Congress to turn over 6 million documents.

[James Stout]

Photographs and videos in Epstein files.

[Andrew Sage]

But you've turned over only 3 million. You say you're not turning over the other 3 million because they're somehow duplicative, but we know that there are actual.

[James Stout]

Memos of victim statements in there.

[Andrew Sage]

And you also took down the Department of Justice's prosecution memo from 2019. So it's clearly not all duplicative. But even if it were, why not release it?

[Garrison Davis]

Just release all the duplicative stuff.

[Andrew Sage]

In the half you did produce, you.

[Garrison Davis]

Redacted the names of abusers, enablers, accomplices.

[Andrew Sage]

And co conspirators, apparently to spare them embarrassment and disgrace, which is the exact.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Opposite of what the law ordered you to do.

[Andrew Sage]

Even worse, you shockingly failed to redact many of the victims names, which is what you were ordered to do by Congress. Some of the victims had come forward publicly, but many had not. Many had kept their torment private, even from family and friends. But you published their names, their identities, their images on thousands of pages for.

[Garrison Davis]

The world to see.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

So you ignored the law.

[Andrew Sage]

And Even with over 100,000 employees at your disposal, you.

[Garrison Davis]

You acted with some mixture of staggering.

[Andrew Sage]

Incompetence, cold indifference and jaded cruelty towards more than 1000 victims. Raped, abused and trafficked. This performance screams cover up.

[Gia Giudice]

I can't even begin to describe how vile and disgusting it is. That they have doxed these survivors of Epstein without their consent.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

It is traumatizing enough that they had to endure this. Now they've had what happened to them put on display, and now they are going to be targeted. And they have not had the ability to speak up if they wanted to on what happened. But the government, despite being told to not out these survivors, did it, but covered the names of the people that committed these crimes. It is unspeakably disgusting.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Sorry.

[Robert Evans]

Well, I feel great.

[Gia Giudice]

It's really upsetting. Yeah, it's really deeply disgusting and upsetting.

[James Stout]

Sure.

[Gia Giudice]

I thought. Thought ranking member Raskin spoke very clearly here, and I appreciated his statement.

[Garrison Davis]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Moving on. Bondi's tactics during this were to deflect, deflect, deflect. There's a couple instances that I. I want to play. Play for everyone now.

[James Stout]

Yeah. You could assign this to a class. And like. Like, if you're talking about every way that, like, the modern Republican Party tries to deflect culpability for anything negative, like, they all got deployed one after the other in this.

[Gia Giudice]

So there were Epstein survivors in person, and Bondi wouldn't even look at them. I want to play a clip from when she's asked to address them here.

[Amanda Nelson]

To the survivors in the room. If you are willing, please stand. And if you are willing, please raise your hands. If you have still not been able to meet with this Department of Justice, please know for the record that every single survivor has raised their hand.

[Robert Evans]

Hand.

[Amanda Nelson]

Attorney General Bondi, you apologize to the survivors in your opening statement for what they went through at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein. Will you turn to them now and apologize for what your Department of Justice has put them through with the UN Absolutely unacceptable release of the Epstein files and their information. Congresswoman, you set before Merrick Garland sat in this chair twice. Attorney General Bond. I'm gonna finish my answer. No, I'm gonna reclaim my time. Because I asked you the Attorney General.

[Garrison Davis]

Yes, sir.

[Amanda Nelson]

Question. Attorney General, I would like to answer, which is, will you turn to the survivors? This is not about anybody that came before you. It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you and are waiting for you to turn to them and apologize for what your Department of Justice is number.

[Robert Evans]

Speaker.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Members get to ask the questions.

[Garrison Davis]

The witness gets to answer in the.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Way they want to answer the Attorney General.

[Amanda Nelson]

That's not accurate, Mr. Chairman, because she doesn't like the answer. So, Mr. Chairman, why I have asked and she asked Merrick Garland. This reclaiming my time. I will claim my time. Get in the gutter for her theatrics. The time belongs to the.

[Garrison Davis]

The time belongs to the gentle lady. Gentlelady has 17 seconds.

[Amanda Nelson]

Thank you. You're not going to answer this question, so let me just. Chairman, I'll direct it to. What a massive. No, I'm answering a question.

[Andrew Sage]

Will you restore her time?

[Gia Giudice]

The witness is interrupting her with this woman.

[Amanda Nelson]

She's doing theatrical.

[James Stout]

Let me have my gentle lady.

[Garrison Davis]

The gentlelady from Washington controls the time. The gentle lady has 17 seconds.

[Amanda Nelson]

You can. You can proceed with your final 17 seconds. What a massive cover up this has been and continues to be. Donald Trump made the release of the Epstein files the center of his political campaign because he thought it would benefit him. Then you got into office. Attorney General claimed to have a client list regular order and say that there was no list. Your deputy Todd Blanche met alone Maxwell to a minimum security prison. And now you continue. The gentle lady has that you would turn around to the survivors who are standing right behind you. And on a human level, Chairman recognizes the ch.

[Robert Evans]

Oh man.

[James Stout]

Time is.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Time is.

[Garrison Davis]

The gentle.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

You have no time to yield back.

[Garrison Davis]

We appreciate the thought.

[Gia Giudice]

Despicable. Disgusting.

[Robert Evans]

Despicable.

[Gia Giudice]

She did not ever turn around and look at these survivors that are in the room. Later, she loses it again. When asked why she hasn't indicated any of the Epstein clients and deflects by saying this.

[Amanda Nelson]

The Dow. The Dow right now is over. The dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing. You're a great stock trader. As I hear Raskin, the dow is over 50,000 right now. The S&P, he had almost 7,000. And the NASDAQ smashing records. Americans 401ks and retirement savings are booming. That's what we should be talking about. We should be talking about making Americans safe. We should be talking about. What does a Dow have to do with anything? That's what they just asked. Are you kidding, Mr. Jordan?

[James Stout]

Am I?

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Mr. Jordan?

[Gia Giudice]

No, it's not. You are here for.

[Garrison Davis]

That's absurd.

[Robert Evans]

You are here.

[Garrison Davis]

That's common.

[Gia Giudice]

You are here for hearing on the Epstein files. You are the Attorney General of the United States and you are a fucking piece of shit. Fucking nightmare.

[Garrison Davis]

That's in response to a question about indicting Epstein clients.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

She just starts talking about the stock market.

[James Stout]

Yeah. And not only did she just start talking about it, she clearly came with her stats ready to talk about it.

[Sophie Lichterman]

Right.

[Robert Evans]

Because the message is it's fine. That all this happened and that Trump was involved. As long as the economy is good, right. People shouldn't be complaining.

[Garrison Davis]

It's cartoon. It's cartoon behavior.

[James Stout]

Yeah. Like, it's not a. It's not even some kind of sophisticated ruse. They just go and look over there.

[Garrison Davis]

This would be like in like a British like sketch comedy about the government like the 80s. Like, this is like, yeah, if this, this. It's wild.

[Gia Giudice]

It's truly horrific. And guess what? I still have more to share. Here is an exchange and another attempt for her to deflect. She tries to bring up Merrick Garland again. This is with the congresswoman from Vermont.

[Amanda Nelson]

Didn't ask Merrick Garland anything about Epstein, not once when he was weak sauce. And also, I want the record to reflect that, you know, with this anti Semitic culture right now, she voted against a resolution, contempt, condemning.

[James Stout]

Oh.

[Amanda Nelson]

Do you want to go there? Attorney General, do you want to go there?

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Are you gentlemen talking about antisemitism to.

[Amanda Nelson]

A woman who lost her grandfather in the Holocaust?

[Gia Giudice]

It's pretty disgusting.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Garrison Davis]

That's crazy.

[Gia Giudice]

She's like, ah, yes, how can I work in being pro Israel also?

[James Stout]

Again. Right. She clearly had like, if this person speaks, this is what I will say.

[Gia Giudice]

It's very clear. She had a material ellipse, like cheat sheet of. This is how. When this person speaks, this is my dirt on this person. When this person speaks, this is my dirt on this person. There are even photos of the dirt she has piled up on each person. She had a sheet of like people's search histories. Just unbelievable deflection, to say the least. I have one more clip I want to display and then I'd like to talk about it a little bit more.

[Andrew Sage]

Yeah, I want to discuss another man, Donald Trump, who is all over the Epstein files, like former Prince.

[Gia Giudice]

Here's a video and for reference, this is the very, very popular video of Epstein and Trump. With Epstein wearing that denim shirt and Trump and the pink tie.

[Robert Evans]

They're kind of like elbowing each other and talking about ladies laughing, laughing at a party. Yeah. You've seen it?

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Former Prince Andrew.

[Andrew Sage]

Donald Trump attended various parties with Jeffrey Epstein. I want to know, were there any underage girls at that party or. Or any party that Trump attended with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Amanda Nelson]

This is so ridiculous. And that they are trying to deflect from all the great things Donald Trump has done. There is no evidence that Donald Trump has committed a crime. Everyone knows that this has been the most transparent pro presidency. He's the one that those five.

[Robert Evans]

I reclaim my time I got your answer.

[Andrew Sage]

You said there's no evidence.

[Garrison Davis]

This, this is belongs to the gentleman from California.

[James Stout]

Okay.

[Andrew Sage]

I'm going to put up another document from a witness who called the FBI's National Threat Operation center because I believe you just lied under oath. There is ample evidence in the Epstein file.

[Amanda Nelson]

Don't you ever accuse me of a crime.

[Andrew Sage]

I believe you just lied under oath. And this is all on videotape. You said there's no evidence of crime. I'm showing you. Here is a witness statement who called into the FBI's threat operations center. He drove Donald Trump around in a limo. He overheard what Donald Trump said to Jeffrey on his cell phone. He was so angry. He was going to stop a limo and hurt Donald Trump.

[Robert Evans]

Trump.

[Andrew Sage]

And he met a girl who said she was raped by Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. She later had her head blown off. And officers at the scene said that could not have been suicide. No one, no one at the Department of Justice interviewed this witness. You need to interview this witness immediately. Epstein should rot in hell. So should the men who patronizes operation. And as we say here today, There are over 1,000 sex trafficking victims and you have not held a single man accountable.

[James Stout]

Shame on you. If you had any decency, you would.

[Andrew Sage]

Resign right after this hearing concludes.

[Garrison Davis]

Gentlemen has expired.

[Gia Giudice]

She did not answer a single question honestly. She did not give a yes or no answer. The Republicans spent the time trying to deflect by. She had like this, this sheet of like, well, in your state, this person committed a crime. In your district, this person committed a crime and tried to deflect in every which way.

[Robert Evans]

Congress people aren't law enforcement like, no.

[Gia Giudice]

And the rep. And the Republicans spent the time praising her and praising Trump and touting their own agenda. And this is not justice. This is sickening. I, I what precedent this sends to people who are survivors of horrific sex crimes.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, the president they want to send is don't say shit. Right.

[Gia Giudice]

That's what I'm saying. That's what it sends.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And we can't allow this to go on. We have to keep talking about it. Sorry.

[Amanda Nelson]

I'm just very upset.

[Gia Giudice]

Pam Bondi, she is one of the most despicable people in the world.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

To get up there with survivors in the room and to not look at them, to not answer a single question and to continuously deflect and lie, it's impossibly disgusting and very, very, very sad.

[Robert Evans]

Sad.

[Gia Giudice]

Very, very sad. Okay.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yep.

[Robert Evans]

Well, I don't know what else to say about it.

[Gia Giudice]

It's Impossibly disgusting and very, very sad.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I. I hope that these survivors get some kind of justice someday. We are not going to forget about them. We are not going to stop talking about it. Something has to give here. This is.

[Amanda Nelson]

This.

[Gia Giudice]

This is not justice. This is despicable.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I don't know what's gonna happen or if anything's gonna give in the near future, but people are pissed. And hopefully we'll continue to be, which is, I guess all we can hope for is that before much longer, the time comes around where we can make sure that these people, including the folks protecting them, now pay. So, you know.

[James Stout]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

We got any other news or is this.

[Gia Giudice]

Nope. We.

[Robert Evans]

This is a real bummer of an ending.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Well, that's appropriate right now.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah. We reported the news.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, I love the news.

[Garrison Davis]

We reported the news.

[Robert Evans]

Yep.

[Gia Giudice]

James, anything. Anything you. You want to plug at the end here?

[James Stout]

Yeah. If you want to email us with news tips, you can email coolzonetipsoton me. If you want to email us with episode ideas, I will make another email for that, but it makes it significantly harder for all of us going through the news tips email. If you just email us with things that you think we should talk about. So we will try and partition those two things off so that we can deal with both of them separately.

[Robert Evans]

Okay, bye.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

We reported the news.

[Robert Evans]

Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.

[Sophie Lichterman]

It could happen. Here is a production of Cool's.

[Gia Giudice]

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find sources for. It could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

[Andrew Sage]

It's me, Brandon.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Kyle Goodman. But you can call me Messy mom, because on my podcast, tell me something messy.

[Andrew Sage]

My fantastic guests are bringing their mess.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

Like singer songwriter Duran Bernard, suggesting we reinstate a adult sleepovers with friends. Here's the thing. Get a group that's mature enough not to be putting your hand in warm water and tickling you. You know what I'm saying? I mean, granted, I might be doing but you know, like, listen to. Tell me something Messy on the iHeartRadio.

[Garrison Davis]

App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Andrew Sage]

This is Special agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a.

[Garrison Davis]

Ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most.

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[Robert Evans]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story.

[James Stout]

Of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes.

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Opened its vault of secrets.

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Listen to the 6th Bureau on the.

[Garrison Davis]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

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Get your podcasts when you feel uncomfortable.

[Amanda Nelson]

What do you put on Biggie? You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable.

[Andrew Sage]

Cause I want to get confident.

[Amanda Nelson]

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[Garrison Davis]

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[Amanda Nelson]

Listen to DJ Hester Prin's Music is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[James Stout]

This is Ryder Strong and I have a new podcast called the red weather. In 1995, my name, neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

[Andrew Sage]

So, no, I am not your guru.

[James Stout]

And back then I lied to everybody.

[Amanda Nelson]

They have had this case for 30 years.

[James Stout]

I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to the Red Weather on the.

[Andrew Sage]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brandon Kyle Goodman]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Gia Giudice]

Guaranteed Human.