Transcript

A (0:01)

Call Zone Media.

B (0:05)

Welcome back to behind the Bastards, a podcast that has just suffered, yet again, the indignity of a major technical malfunction.

A (0:14)

And right at the point. The day after, we got approval from Netflix to stream full video episodes worldwide, minus Korea and Vietnam. I'm so sorry. I have no idea why.

B (0:26)

Sorry, guys. I can't influence Netflix policy. And Vietnam. But at least we're on everywhere now.

A (0:33)

We're on everywhere now.

C (0:34)

Except Korea and Vietnam.

A (0:35)

Except for Vietnam.

B (0:36)

Except for Korea and Vietnam. Unfortunately, my camera's not working right, so we had to use the webcam on my laptop, which does not look as good, which will also not change how 90% of people experience this podcast because it is an audio medium. Why even attach visuals to it? No one knows.

A (0:54)

To be fair, Buddy, I think you look fine.

B (0:57)

Thanks.

C (0:58)

I think you look great.

B (0:59)

Kat looks great. You know who looks great is our guest, Kat Abou. Kat, how are you doing? Welcome back.

C (1:04)

I'm good. And now I go by my full government name, Kat Abu Gonlay.

B (1:09)

You're right. Because you're running for Congress.

C (1:11)

Because I'm running for Congress.

B (1:12)

I have to call you something different now.

A (1:14)

Kat, you want to give a little PSA plug for the campaign? Up top.

C (1:18)

I would love to. Hi, everyone. I'm Kat. I'm running for Congress in the 9th district of Illinois that goes from uptown Chicago up to Evanston, over to Skokie, all the way to Algonquin and Crystal Lake. Gerrymandered to hell. And I'm trying to represent you. I am one of the top three viable candidates in this race. Election day is March 17th. I'm the only one of those three people that has not met with or submitted a position paper to apac. We are the only campaign in this race funded by small dollar donations. I have a cat named Heater. She's orange, and, yeah, that's kind of my thing. Oh, and I covered the far right as a researcher and journalist. You might have heard before when my microphone was dog.

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Behind the Bastards
Episode: Part One: From Elliott Rodger to Clavicular: The Story of Incel Evolution
Date: March 10, 2026
Host: Robert Evans (Cool Zone Media/iHeartPodcasts)
Guest: Kat Abu Gonlay
Description: Exploring the transformation of the incel (involuntary celibate) subculture from its roots in 1990s online forums to the viral "looksmaxxing" phenomenon, as well as its outsize and troubling cultural impact.

Episode Overview

This episode examines the history and bizarre evolution of the incel community—from its origins as a lonely young woman’s support site to the misogynistic, meme-spawning, often violent subculture it became following the 2014 Isla Vista mass murder. The hosts track the shift from discussion of vulnerability and community to the toxic world of "looksmaxxing", culminating in modern viral characters like Clavicular. The episode also reflects on the disturbing way incel terminology and attitudes have infused mainstream internet discourse.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Technical Issues & Guest Introduction [00:05–04:11]

Lighthearted banter about podcast video streaming and cameras, then an introduction of guest Kat Abu Gonlay, journalist and Congressional candidate, highlighting her campaign focus on combating the far right.
- "I'm Kat. I'm running for Congress in the 9th district of Illinois..." (Kat, 01:18)
Personal anecdotes and party stories set an informal tone before diving into the main topic.

2. Setting the Stage: Why Incels, and Why Now? [07:35–09:36]

Kat and Robert reflect on years spent reading about the online far right.
Clavicular, the current viral "looksmaxxing" influencer, is introduced as emblematic of how incel ideas have mutated and spread.
- "We're explaining how you get from May 23, 2014... to a massive degree of fame... over this guy Clavicular." (Robert, 08:02)

3. Incel Lexicon Goes Mainstream [09:36–12:36]

The recent viral Twitter post about Clavicular, packed with terms like "mid jester gooning," "foids," and "mogging."
- Post analyzed for its impenetrability to outsiders but also its memetic, contagious quality.
- "Clavicular was mid Jester Gooning when a group of foids came and spiked his cortisol levels." (Robert reading Chromeheart600, 12:00)
Discussion of how incel and “looksmaxxing” terminology like “based,” “foids,” and “gooning” has spread to the mainstream, unlike jargon from other toxic online communities.
- "Despite how fringe and extreme and, like, toxic and scary the actual incel subculture is, they've also had this incredible history of shotgunning terms and concepts into mass consciousness." (Robert, 11:56)

4. From Involuntary Celibate to Incel: The Early History [19:11–22:41]

The origin of “involuntary celibate” comes from Alana, a Canadian woman, in 1997—her intention was honest, gender-inclusive community for lonely people.
- "The phrase involuntary celibate originates from a Canadian student named Alana..." (Robert, 19:28)
Early community was supportive and mixed-gender; “incel” was coined to be catchier than “inv-cel.”
- This supportiveness fades as the space becomes increasingly male-dominated and toxic.

5. Pickup Artistry & the Rise of Toxic Masculinity [23:57–31:39]

Pickup artistry predates the internet, with roots traced to the 1968 book "How to Pick Up Girls," which, while sexist, at least acknowledged women’s desires.
- "If you want to be attractive to women, you should learn what women want..." (Robert, 28:14)
By the 2000s, pickup artistry mutates into manipulation, objectification, and pseudoscientific “game”—hacks for “winning” women.
- Siegues terms like “negging” and “peacocking.”
- The pivotal shift: from “what do women want?” to “women are enemies to hack.”

6. The Birth of PUA Hate and Incel Ideology [38:07–45:11]

The fraudulence and failure of pickup artistry leads to disaffected adherents forming puahate.com ("Pickup Artist Hate") in 2009.
- At first, it’s a place for venting about scams. Toxicity escalates as anger focuses on women and perceived societal injustice.
- "Over the coming months and years, Pickup Artist Hate evolved into one of the most extreme storehouses for misogynistic content on the Internet." (Robert, 45:11)
Introduction of new communities with even lower moderation (like Love Shy and Incel Support), which further radicalized disaffected men.

7. Incel Ideology: The Glossary & the Cosmology [49:11–57:28]

Incels build a pseudo-scientific worldview: humanity divided into “Chads”/“Stacys” (the attractive), “betas” (the average), and incels (the cursed).
- "They basically, in the space of a year or two, fashioned a cosmology in which they are the victims of history." (Robert, 50:45)
The Golden Ratio and "PSL" (Pua Hate, Slut Hate, Lookism) rating scale—a way to "objectively" judge attractiveness.
- "What incels take from this is that attractiveness... is directly and 100% correlated with the ability to be loved." (Robert, 53:32)
Emergence of concepts like “lookism” and “sexual market value” (SMV)—deeply toxic, capitalistic, and eugenic in tone.
Division between “looksmaxxers” (trying to improve themselves, often in unhealthy ways) and “blackpilled” incels (who see violence or suicide as only escape).

8. Impact on Young Men & the Spread into the Mainstream [59:07–68:32]

The culture is both racist and self-defeating, with toxic reinforcement loops (“Cope. She hates you. Kill yourself.”).
- Real-life impact: vulnerable young men often discouraged, mocked, or driven to self-harm, as recounted in Kat’s firsthand research experience.
- "It's heartbreaking what this does to people in it." (Kat, 61:18)
Incel ideology begins to infect broader right-wing politics; hosts warn that ideas once fringe (“every man deserves a woman”) are entering the conservative mainstream.
- "It's not quite the Republican party platform now, but it will be." (Robert, 57:45)
The real world is offered as a counterpoint: kindness, hygiene, skills, and humor matter far more in attraction than arbitrary “PSL” scales.
- "The bar for men is so low." (Kat, 68:19)

9. Race Science and Bifurcation of the Community [70:20–72:13]

Incel self-hate rooted in white supremacist aesthetics and race science; Asian men described as systemically disadvantaged on PSL ladder.
- "All of these male beauty standards are envisioned with, like, Caspar Van Dien from Starship Troopers as like a ten, right? A blond...Aryan man is like the peak of attractiveness." (Robert, 70:20)
The split between “looksmaxxers” and the “blackpilled” is crystallized: only self-improvement or nihilism/mass violence remain.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“The most fascinating thing about incel culture is how so much of it is, like, this weird, both hyper masculine and also homoerotic subtones of what they think, like, women want.”
— Kat Abu Gonlay [09:38]
“Despite how fringe and extreme and, like, toxic and scary the actual incel subculture is, they've also had this incredible history of shotgunning terms and concepts into mass consciousness that's both really surprising and kind of worrying.”
— Robert Evans [11:56]
“They basically, in the space of a year or two, fashioned a cosmology in which they are the victims of history.”
— Robert Evans [50:45]
“What incels take from this is that attractiveness...is directly and 100% correlated with the ability to be loved...And that means nothing is my fault. So over the course of the next couple years...they work out this categorization system which is called the PSL scale.”
— Robert Evans [53:32]
“It's so poisonous and fucked up. That's what they take from the golden ratio...if your bone structure doesn't fit the golden ratio, you're screwed forever. And that means nothing is my fault.”
— Robert Evans [53:33]
“It's heartbreaking what this does to people in it.”
— Kat Abu Gonlay [61:18]
“The bar for men is so low.”
— Kat Abu Gonlay [68:19]
“It's not quite the Republican party platform now, but it will be.”
— Robert Evans [57:45]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Guest intro & party stories: [00:05–04:11]
Incels from Isla Vista to Clavicular: [07:35–09:36]
Viral incel lingo breakdown: [12:00–15:15]
Involuntary celibate origins: [19:11–22:41]
Pickup artist history & the shift: [23:57–31:39]
PUA Hate and misogynistic forums: [38:07–45:11]
Incels’ self-mythology & “lookism”: [49:11–57:28]
On male loneliness, systemic influences, and real relationships: [59:07–68:32]
Racial elements & “looksmaxxing” vs “blackpill”: [70:20–72:13]

Tone & Style

The hosts use a blend of dark humor, pop culture references, and clear-eyed seriousness to to critique toxic online cultures. Informal and self-deprecating, the tone cuts through jargon to reveal the pathos and absurdity of the incel phenomenon, resisting sensationalism but not shying away from pain or anger.

Takeaways

The incel community transformed from a place of support and reflection to an ideology blaming women and society for its members’ struggles, fostering hate and even violence.
Even as most people find incel-speak ridiculous, its terms and ideas have seeped into mainstream youth culture and reactionary politics.
The incel worldview is not just absurd—it’s harmful, isolating, and often self-fulfilling in its negativity and misogyny.

Closing Plugs

[Kat Abu Gonlay’s Campaign: "I'm running for Congress...find more about my campaign at catforillino.com...Please consider donating or volunteering."** [72:36]
Look out for Part 2 (with more on “bone smashing” and further incel subculture developments).

For listeners:
This episode provides historical grounding and incisive critique, helping to decode how a toxic online fringe became a persistent (and newly viral) force shaping internet and political culture.