Behind the Bastards: “That Time Volkswagen Operated a Slave Plantation in Brazil” (Part One)

Host: Robert Evans
Guest: Maggie Mae Fish
Date: October 14, 2025
Podcast: Behind the Bastards, Cool Zone Media/iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

This episode investigates the dark postwar history of Volkswagen in Brazil, focusing especially on the company’s operation of a massive cattle plantation (Fazenda Volkswagen) that used slave labor deep into the late 20th century. Host Robert Evans and guest Maggie Mae Fish dig into Volkswagen’s Nazi origins, the continuity of criminal practices after World War II, and the broader context of slavery in Brazil. Their irreverent tone adds gallows humor to a harrowing historical account.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

Volkswagen’s Nazi Roots

[07:52-19:21]

• Robert and Maggie kick off by situating Volkswagen’s infamous origins in Nazi Germany.
• Origin Story:
  • In 1933, Hitler pushes for the “People’s Motorization”—a car for every German family, both as luxury and as explicit Nazi propaganda.

    “One of Hitler's immediate priorities is... announc[ing]... that the Third Reich is going to be a motorized society.” (Robert, 09:48)

  • Porsche, already seeking to develop a mass-market vehicle, pairs with Hitler for mutually convenient ambitions.

    “Porsche and Hitler as made for each other.” (Robert, 12:37)

• Civilian & Military Intertwined:
  • The car was always planned for both civilian and military use.
  • Wolfsburg Volkswagen factory is opened with Hitler’s personal involvement.
• Nazi Labor Practices:
  • VW quickly shifts to war production and becomes a major user of forced labor under the Nazi regime—primarily camp inmates and foreign POWs.

    “Volkswagen was among the first companies to take advantage of the forced labor of Soviet prisoners of war... Forced laborers eventually made up approximately 60% of the workforce at the city of the KDF car.” (Robert quoting Holocaust Encyclopedia, 19:27)

• Atrocities:
  • Slave laborers included many skilled Jewish women; pregnant workers’ children were sent to “nurseries” with near 100% infant mortality rates.

    “It is thought that 365 infants and toddlers, the children of female eastern workers who labored at Volkswagen, died at ruin. So this is just a death camp for little kids.” (Robert, 28:40)

Volkswagen After the War: Continuity, Evasion, and (Eventual) Reckoning

[31:59-34:43]

• Continuity of Personnel and Practice:
  • Postwar, many former Nazi execs kept running VW.

    “Many, if not most, of Volkswagen's executive suite were guys who'd worked at Volkswagen during the Third Reich and just hadn't been punished.” (Robert, 34:22)

• Reluctant Reckoning:
  • Only after decades of activism and bad press (e.g., Hans Mommsen's company history in 1986, partial reparations in 1991) did VW take steps to address this legacy.

    “Even the proactive steps Volkswagen took... only happened because their hands were forced by constant attempts by activists to make the auto giant reckon with its history.” (Robert, 33:20)

  • Notable protest art: “It Was All Adolf” displayed a VW Beetle hood emblazoned with a swastika.

Brazil’s Long History of Slavery

[49:54-57:00]

• Contextualizes Volkswagen’s 20th-century plantation abuses within Brazil’s centuries-old reliance on slavery.

  “Brazil took in more enslaved Africans than any other place on the face of the planet.... more than 12 times the number taken to mainland North America.” (Robert quoting AP, 53:03)

• Even after supposed abolition, forced labor and debt peonage persisted, especially in the coffee industry and Amazon region.

The Volkswagen Fazenda: Operating a Slave Plantation in Late 20th Century Brazil

[35:51-48:54, picks back up 48:54-63:07]

• Dictatorship & Development:
  • Brazil’s military dictatorship encouraged multinationals to “develop” the Amazon—mainly by clear-cutting and ranching—which served both economic and political (anti-insurgency) aims.
  • Volkswagen, seeking to diversify beyond cars, established a gigantic cattle ranch, Fazenda Volkswagen, larger than Brazil’s capital city.

    “Volkswagen, Brazil, then the largest carmaker in Latin America, accepted the challenge… ‘This world not only needs cars,’ Volkswagen president Rudolf Leding declared in 1974, ‘but also meat.’” (Robert quoting Washington Post, 39:16)

• Contractors (Gatos) and the Debt Trap:
  • VW used contractors (“gatos”) to round up rural poor with promises of good wages and conditions.
  • In reality, workers were isolated, charged exorbitant fees for food/housing/tools, and kept in debt peonage enforced by armed guards.

    “They were expected to pay for their housing, for their food, and for their medical care…. In short order, they found themselves in debt. Any who tried to return home were stopped by men with guns.” (Robert, 43:02)

  • Former laborers recounted months of brutal forced work, illness, and no pay.

    “We left penniless and gravely ill.” (Manuel Lima, quoted by Robert, 44:28)

• Modern Slavery:
  • VW attempted to distance itself, claiming lack of awareness, as abuses were carried out “by contractors,” but the operation was core to VW’s land.

    “These Volkswagen laborers... they’re directly employed by a contractor. So VW can say, ‘Well, these were never our employees,’ but like, they’re working Volkswagen’s land.” (Robert, 48:54)

• Wider Pattern:
  • Similar cases of slavery on farms across Amazonia, not limited to Volkswagen.
  • Mass graves and clandestine cemeteries, discovered as recently as the 1990s and 2000s.

Impact of Slavery on Brazilian Society

[60:45-63:07]

• Enduring political and social damage from historic and ongoing slavery, including inequality, political disenfranchisement, and violence directed at Black and biracial Brazilians.
• Laws now allow seizure of land used for slavery, but damage remains.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On VW-Nazi Ties:

  “It's not tenuous. I'll tell you that much right now, Maggie.” — Robert (02:26)

• On the Birth of the Beetle:

  “Hitler needed a creative mind... and Porsche needed political backing to enable him to build it without financial pressure.” — Robert (quoting Peida, 12:37)

• On Labor Under Nazism:

  “From the jump, VW is cars made by slave labor. Which is great.” — Robert (20:33)

• On Corporate Evasion:

  “They're working Volkswagen's land. Why?... We had no idea.” — Maggie (49:09–49:11, sarcasm)

• On Today’s Car Industry:

  “I was gonna say don’t buy a Volkswagen, but really, there’s not a car you can buy without some sort of nightmare history to it or nightmare present to it.... Steal a car. That’s the only ethical way to buy a car.” — Robert (64:30–65:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 07:52 | VW’s Nazi origins and use of forced labor | | 19:27 | Details on concentration camp labor at VW | | 28:40 | Infanticide in Nazi “nurseries” at VW factories | | 31:59 | Postwar continuity of Nazi leadership at VW | | 33:20 | VW’s halfhearted reckoning with its history | | 34:43 | Postwar VW execs and transition to Brazil context | | 35:51 | Start of VW’s Brazilian plantation saga | | 39:16 | “This world not only needs cars… but also meat.” | | 43:02 | The contractor (“gato”) system of coerced labor | | 44:28 | Manuel Lima’s testimony of abuse | | 48:54 | “We had no idea” – VW’s denial of responsibility | | 53:03 | Brazil’s status as the world’s largest slaver nation| | 56:34 | US involvement in Brazilian slave trade | | 60:45 | Legacy of slavery and effects on modern Brazil | | 63:07 | Teaser for Part Two |

Tone & Style

• Gallows Humor: The hosts oscillate between frank horror at the material and irreverent jokes.

  “Right. Beat walking. They're so unintimidating.” — Maggie (14:06) “It’s woke slavery. You know, they're being paid.” — Robert (49:54)

• Critical and Incisive: Frequently connect past injustices to present-day practices in corporate capitalism and global supply chains.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a disturbing but vital look at how corporations like Volkswagen perpetuated atrocity beyond the Nazi era, capitalizing on longstanding systems of oppression like slavery—enabled by political regimes and the shifting veneer of legality. The discussion previews further coverage in Part Two, including modern reckoning and consequences for VW.

Recommended for:
Listeners interested in corporate crime, dark modern history, Brazilian social issues, and the continuity between fascist pasts and present injustices.

Pluggables:

• Maggie Mae Fish: YouTube channel & show “Amy’s Dead in Dreamhouse” on Nebula
• Robert Evans: See “Behind the Bastards” for deep dives into the worst people/systems

“Check out the history of slavery in Brazil. It's probably something we should all read more about. It's pretty bleak.” — Robert Evans (64:08)