Behind the Bastards — Part One: The Men Who Might Have Killed Us All

Podcast: Behind the Bastards
Host: Robert Evans (A), with guest Margaret Killjoy (B)
Date: December 2, 2025
Duration covered: Approx. 00:04:00–01:24:35 (excluding ads, intros, outros)

Episode Overview

This episode kicks off a multi-part exploration into the often-overlooked architects of the nuclear doomsday machine—a system that perpetually hovers over humanity with the threat of annihilation. Rather than focusing on notorious war criminals or infamous leaders, host Robert Evans and guest Margaret Killjoy examine the scientists, generals, and theorists on the U.S. side who built the nuclear arsenal and the war doctrines underpinning Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Through dark humor, historical deep-dives, and reflections on the moral ambiguity of these men’s choices, the episode lays out the complex, sometimes sympathetic, but deeply troubling legacy of those who “might have killed us all.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Is this Topic Important? (04:06–07:40)

• At any given moment, the world is only “30 minutes away from the entire planet being wiped out” by nuclear weapons.
• The Cold War doctrine and hardware remain, and the nuclear threat has not lessened since the Cold War; if anything, it’s become more precarious.
  • “Absolutely nothing has been done to make this system safer since the end of the Cold War. In fact, it’s significantly more dangerous.” — Robert (08:37)
• Many who built these systems were not villains by traditional standards—their personal body counts are minimal, but collectively they engineered a system that could functionally end humanity if triggered.

2. The Paradox of ‘Schrödinger’s Bastards’ (07:40–10:15; 18:42–18:52)

• Unlike “typical” bastards, many nuclear architects may actually have saved lives (by deterrence) or doomed us all (by proximity to apocalypse)—and we won’t know which until/unless the worst happens.
  • “These people are heroes or bastards, and we will never know. And in half the timelines, they’re one and then the other.” — Margaret (18:46)

3. The Real World Inspiration for the Atomic Bomb (10:16–14:39)

• H.G. Wells was among the first to fictionalize an atomic bomb with devastating precision in his 1914 novel The World Set Free, which later influenced key figures like physicist Leo Szilard.
• Szilard, a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany, becomes a principal architect of the Manhattan Project after real-world fears of a Nazi atomic bomb race.
  • “You can’t blame Szilard, right? ...His attitude is: ‘We need to have this, because Hitler might have it.’” — Robert (13:01)
• The Manhattan Project drew many people who saw the bomb as the ‘lesser evil’ compared to fascism.

4. The Messiness of Motives and Espionage (16:30–18:03, 18:47–18:52)

• Discussions include stories (some apocryphal) of physicist slowdowns in Nazi Germany—possibly intentional sabotage by scientists to delay the bomb.
• Soviet spies within the Manhattan Project justified their actions similarly: giving the USSR bomb secrets would prevent the U.S. from gaining overwhelming destructive power.

5. From Armies to Doomsday: How ‘Safety’ Systems Backfire (20:11–25:25; 33:39–44:12)

• The arms race is likened to the “doomsday device” that triggered World War I, where military buildup and interlocking alliances, meant to prevent war, instead mechanized its outbreak.
  • “World War I is itself the result of a doomsday device going off..." — Robert (22:32)
• In moments of crisis, decision time is short, and the loudest advocates for ‘use’ are typically military men obsessed with preparation for worst-case scenarios.

6. The Deep Roots of ‘Mutually Assured Destruction’ — Strategic Bombing Theory (38:22–52:40)

• Giulio Douhet, Italian general, essentially ‘invents’ strategic bombing theory: the belief that air power alone can destroy civilian morale and win wars.
  • Douhet’s thesis: “If you destroy what a man has ...it becomes impossible for him to defend himself.” (70:52)
• Douhet advocated mass bombing of civilian populations as a war-winning tactic—a theory embraced by interwar and WWII planners on all sides despite being technically wrong and morally horrifying.
  • “He is the guy writing in a book: ‘The systematic destruction of civilian populations through strategic bombing.’ ...That’s upon his soul.” — Robert (47:26)

7. Strategic Bombing in World War II: Ideal vs. Reality (52:43–77:48)

• WWII military leaders, particularly “Bomber Harris” of the UK’s RAF, attempt to enact theories of mass city destruction.
  • However, over and over, results don’t match predictions: bombed cities (e.g., London, Hamburg) don’t capitulate, civilian morale hardens, and industrial capacity persists.
  • “No plane or tank failed to be built for lack of ball bearings.” — (Quoted from Albert Speer, 75:01)
• U.S. “precision bombing” was a fantasy: at best, a 22% hit rate for B-17 bombers within 100 yards of target.
  • “You can drop a bomb from 25,000 feet and hit a target the size of a pickle barrel, [they claimed]...In combat...within a football field only 22% of the time.” — Robert (71:24)

8. The Air War’s Lessons for Nuclear Doctrine (59:45–66:50, 78:51–81:46)

• The technical failure of bomber-centric war plans is masked by eventual Allied victory, but the assumed lesson—bombing (and especially now nuclear bombing) can force surrender—is carried forward.
• Firestorms (unleashed at Hamburg and later on Japan) and nuclear chain reactions are theorized as “bonus damage,” amplifying the devastation and making the “doomsday machine” concept even more catastrophic.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On quantum immortality and historical luck:
  • “It might just be pure raw luck that we didn’t annihilate ourselves.” — Margaret (05:36)
• On the unstable nature of peace:
  • “If this happens, like, 15 minutes after you finish listening to this podcast, you’ll know who to be angry at in your last couple seconds of consciousness.” — Robert (18:52)
• On the fundamental flaw in deterrence thinking:
  • “History is written by the victors. And there’s no victors [in nuclear war].” — Margaret (07:46)
  • “There’s gonna be no victors of a nuclear war. Simply no history written.” — Robert (07:48)
• On the ‘armed society’ analogy:
  • “An armed society is not a polite society …it’s just not.” — Margaret (23:30)
• On strategic bombing’s cruel calculus:
  • “The aim is the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers …and the disruption of civilized community life throughout Germany.” — Bomber Harris (quoted, 66:50)
  • “No, no, no—this is about killing women and children and rendering them homeless. That’s what we’re doing.” — Robert (77:31)
• On post-apocalypse government bunkers:
  • “None of the facilities we have to protect our government will work. …It’s a much worse death than the people topside will have.” — Robert (81:28)

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 00:04:06 — The ticking clock: how close we always are to nuclear annihilation.
• 00:10:16 — H.G. Wells’s atomic bomb and his influence on Szilard and the Manhattan Project.
• 00:13:01 — Szilard’s sympathetic case for building the bomb to counter Hitler.
• 00:22:32 — The WWI “doomsday device” as a parallel to nuclear standoff.
• 00:34:46 — Lessons unlearned: the Franco-Prussian War and the ticking clock of mobilization.
• 00:38:22 — Strategic bombing theory explained: Douhet’s influence and errors.
• 00:52:43 — How WWII military planners put Douhet’s theories into practice—and failed.
• 01:03:00–01:14:00 — Precision bombing myths and the reality of inaccuracy and horrific civilian tolls.
• 01:21:28 — Nothing, not even government bunkers, can meaningfully survive “doomsday.”
• 01:23:10 — The system of alliances and military escalation as history's original “doomsday device.”

Tone & Style

• The hosts blend dark, often gallows humor (“Maybe do it yourself, you know, pruners, sure… Rubber band. That’s how we do it on the sheep.” — Robert, 00:01:06) with rigorous history and pointed political and ethical analysis.
• Dialogue is informal, conversational, and regularly digresses into personal anecdotes and hypothetical scenarios, but always returns to the central theme.
• Honesty about moral gray areas is foregrounded; neither host lets listeners forget the horror and absurdity at the heart of nuclear planning.

Summary — For New Listeners

This episode traces the intellectual and institutional roots of the doomsday device, showing how well-meaning (and in some cases outright villainous) individuals created a system that threatens all life on Earth. From the first imaginings of the atomic bomb in pulp fiction, through WWII’s disastrous faith in bombing as a war-winning tool, to the continuing, precarious standoff of the nuclear age, the hosts lay out the technical miscalculations, hubris, and ethical traps that define ‘the men who might have killed us all.’ This context is vital in understanding how close humanity remains to self-destruction, not because of singular villains, but due to systems built by people convinced they were preventing catastrophe—right up until they might someday cause it.

For Next Episode

Part Two will explore the application of these foundational doctrines to the Pacific theater, the use of nuclear weapons on Japan, and the post-war evolution of the U.S. and global doomsday mechanisms.

If you want to feel more informed—and more existentially anxious—about how close we always are to nuclear apocalypse, this is a must-listen.