Behind the Bastards: Part One – The Pol Pot Episodes: How A Nice, Quiet Kid Murdered His Country

Released April 29, 2025 by Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

Introduction: Setting the Stage

The episode kicks off with the hosts—Robert Evans, Andrew Torres, Jim, and Sophie—engaging in their trademark humorous banter. They delve into light-hearted topics such as Ben Affleck's back tattoo and Boston accents, establishing a playful rapport before transitioning into the episode's main focus.

• Andrew Torres [00:01]: "Welcome back to Behind the Bastards..."
• Jim [00:20]: "Oh, my goodness gracious. Jiminy Christmas."

Introducing Pol Pot: The Unexpected Protagonist

The conversation swiftly shifts to the grim subject of Pol Pot, positioning him as Cambodia's most notorious dictator. The hosts compare him to other infamous figures like Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon, ultimately crowning Pol Pot as Cambodia's worst.

• Andrew Torres [08:40]: "There's strong competition for being the dude who was worst to Cambodia in the 20th century... But Pol Pot probably still does win the crown."

Early Life and Family Background

Andrew Torres delves into Pol Pot's origins, revealing his real name—Saloth Sar—and his upbringing in an upper-middle-class family in Prek Sihanoukville. Pol Pot's father, a prosperous landowner, and his mother, a humanitarian Buddhist, provided him with a privileged yet insulated childhood.

• Andrew Torres [10:11]: "Pol Pot's not his name. He was born Saloth Sar, which sounds like a Marvel villain."

The hosts discuss the ambiguity surrounding Pol Pot's birth date, highlighting Cambodia's poor record-keeping during the 1920s and the common practice of altering birthdates to gain educational advantages.

• Andrew Torres [12:27]: "We don't know when he was born."

Cambodia Under French Colonialism

The episode provides historical context, explaining Cambodia's status as part of French Indochina. The French colonizers were a revered yet detached minority, fostering deep-seated resentment among the Khmer population toward Vietnamese and Chinese minorities who dominated the local business sectors.

• Andrew Torres [16:34]: "Cambodia has been the property of either China or Vietnam or Thailand for large parts of its history."

Education and Early Influences

Pol Pot's education played a pivotal role in shaping his future ideology. After spending a year in a Buddhist monastery to maintain his Khmer identity, he attended a French-style school where he was exposed to both Buddhist teachings and French Catholicism. The rigid and punitive educational environment fostered a black-and-white worldview, essential for his later brutal leadership.

• Andrew Torres [22:06]: "Salothsar's family was upper middle class... Saloth played in the school basketball team."

Personal anecdotes reveal the harsh disciplinary methods Pol Pot endured, including severe beatings and torture-like punishments for minor infractions. These experiences contributed to his hardened personality.

• Andrew Torres [24:00]: "There's obviously an amount of beating your kids that will turn them into Pol Pot."
• Jim [24:03]: "Don't punish your kids with ants. Can we agree on that?"

Political Awakening and Early Involvement

In the late 1940s, Pol Pot becomes increasingly involved in Cambodia's burgeoning nationalist movements. Despite his lackluster academic performance, he secures a scholarship to study in Paris in 1949 alongside future Khmer Rouge leaders. This exposure to global political ideologies, including communism, solidified his revolutionary beliefs.

• Andrew Torres [56:14]: "In 1947, Salazar gets picked for that study abroad program and becomes one of the first hundred Khmer male and female students to win a scholarship to go study in Paris."

The hosts emphasize the irony of Pol Pot's seemingly unremarkable and pleasant demeanor juxtaposed with his capacity for extreme violence, highlighting how such contradictions are common among dictatorial figures.

• Andrew Torres [38:51]: "Almost every source agrees he was an incredibly nice, like, polite, pleasant guy to be around."
• Jim [38:55]: "That's so weird. I did not know that. That's like so bizarre."

Study Abroad in Paris: Solidifying Revolutionary Ideals

Pol Pot's time in Paris was transformative. Living alongside other politically inclined students, he was exposed to Marxist and communist ideologies, which resonated with his growing disillusionment with Cambodia's socio-political landscape. The influence of radical literature and the witnessing of Japanese military actions against the French heightened his resolve to overthrow the existing regime.

• Andrew Torres [53:27]: "We're going to talk about all the reading that these kids do... the propaganda impact of seeing these Japanese soldiers locking up French imperialists."

The hosts draw parallels between Pol Pot's experience and modern tech moguls like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, suggesting that radical reimagining of societal structures driven by insular groups can have catastrophic outcomes.

• Andrew Torres [05:54]: "The Khmer Rouge guys both read books... how their comrades orchestrated the deaths of roughly a quarter to a third of their country."

Personal Traits and Contradictions

Despite his brutal legacy, Pol Pot is portrayed as a man with a pleasant and unassuming personality during his early years. His peers remember him as funny, gentle, and even-shy, a stark contrast to the ruthless leader he would become. This duality underscores the complexity of his character and the erasure of his violent inclinations in his personal interactions.

• Andrew Torres [45:41]: "Seri was funny, easy to be around, and he was most particularly gentle."
• Jim [42:06]: "Jesus Christ."

Conclusion: Building Towards Genocide

The episode concludes with a reflection on how Pol Pot's early life—marked by privilege, harsh discipline, and radical political exposure—set the stage for his future atrocities. The hosts tease that the tension between his benign childhood and his genocidal leadership will be further explored in Part Two.

• Andrew Torres [67:00]: "This is like that first Star Wars prequel where it's like, he's kind of an annoying kid... How could things go badly?"
• Jim [67:05]: "What could possibly go wrong?"

Notable Quotes

1. Andrew Torres [05:54]:

   "The Khmer Rouge guys both read books. And also one thing you can't take away from Pol Pot and the other Khmer Rouge guys, they were hard as fuck. By the time they got in charge, they'd spent 20 years fighting in the jungle."

2. Jim [24:03]:

   "Don't punish your kids with ants. Can we agree on that?"

3. Andrew Torres [38:51]:

   "Almost every source agrees he was an incredibly nice, like, polite, pleasant guy to be around."

4. Andrew Torres [53:27]:

   "The propaganda impact of seeing these Japanese soldiers locking up French imperialists."

5. Jim [67:05]:

   "What could possibly go wrong?"

Final Thoughts

The hosts adeptly intertwine historical analysis with personal anecdotes and humor, creating an engaging narrative that unravels the complexities of Pol Pot's ascent to power. By humanizing a figure responsible for immense suffering, they explore the unsettling realities of how seemingly ordinary individuals can orchestrate extraordinary atrocities. The episode sets the foundation for a deeper examination of Pol Pot's reign, promising further insights in the subsequent part.

For more episodes of "Behind the Bastards," visit Cool Zone Media or find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and other major podcast platforms.