Behind the Bastards – Part Three: How Heinrich Himmler Went From Nerdy Boy To Master of the SS

Podcast: Behind the Bastards (Cool Zone Media / iHeartPodcasts)
Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Brett Weinstein
Co-Host/Guest: Jason Petty (Prop, of Hood Politics)
Producer: Sophie

Episode Overview

This episode continues the deep dive into the life of Heinrich Himmler, focusing on his transformation from a privileged, awkward youth with nerdy obsessions to the architect of the SS. Brett Weinstein and guest Jason Petty ("Prop") explore the bizarre roots of Nazi mysticism, the importance of daydreams and fantasy in the early Nazi movement, Himmler’s path through far-right politics, and the personalities central to the Nazi Party's rise. The hosts dissect not only the actions, but also the personal and psychological factors that fueled Himmler’s trajectory—from his odd relationships to his relentless ambition.

Key Themes and Structure

1. The Allure of Mysticism & Pseudohistory Among Nazis
2. The Personalities Behind the Nazi Party’s Rise
3. Himmler’s Personal Life and Relationships
4. Formation and Evolution of the SS

Detailed Breakdown

1. The Allure of Mysticism & Pseudohistory Among Nazis

Volkish Mysticism: Ghosts, Nobility, and Catacombs (08:12 – 15:00)

• Guido von List and Volkish Fantasy:

  • The episode examines Guido Karl Anton List, an occultist whose ideas (allegedly whispered by ghosts) shaped early Nazi mythology about “racial” nobility and ancient Germanic heritage.
  • Quote: “He starts going after... talking to ghosts and getting, you know, building his theories about these ancient Aryans.” (08:12, Brett)
  • Von List claims ghostly confirmation of his noble "Von" status—a theme of self-delusion and wish fulfillment echoed in Himmler's life.

• The Role of Imagination and Privilege:

  • “Boredom’s a sign of privilege in some ways.” (11:57, Jason)
  • Middle-class backgrounds gave Nazis like List and Himmler the leisure to concoct elaborate fantasies, embracing mysticism over hard evidence.

• Invented Traditions:

  • List's “priests of Wotan,” the Armenian, are his own creation, inserted into history to create a sense of ancient, magical German superiority.
  • Parallels are drawn between List’s mythmaking and Tolkien’s fantasy works—though crucially, Tolkien knew his writings were fiction; List and his followers insisted theirs were fact.

• Relatability Through Modern Analogies:

  • The hosts joke about how much easier wishful thinking is versus archaeology, and riff that “if List had World of Warcraft, we’d all be better off.” (14:33 – Brett)
  • Pop culture references interspersed throughout, e.g., "the Norse had a Wu-Tang" (13:15, Jason), blending humor with critique.

2. The Personalities Behind the Nazi Party’s Rise

From Failed Beer Hall Putsch to Nazi Bureaucrats (20:00 – 37:44)

• Mentors, Mentees, and Power Struggles:

  • Ernst Röhm: A brutal, openly gay early Nazi leader whom Himmler idolized; the tension and hypocrisy within Nazi leadership are discussed.
    • “You love to see a gay dude that could beat your ass.” (22:31, Jason)
  • The Strasser Brothers: Otto and Gregor, representing a pseudo-left wing of the party, using socialist rhetoric to court workers before being purged by Hitler.
  • Recounting the Beer Hall Putsch: Himmler’s participation was more cosplay than combat—he gets the ‘old fighter’ valor without real risk.
    • Quote: “[They] look like awkward children playing dress up... you can see that this is cosplaying to a degree.” (30:04 – 30:16, Brett)

• Recruitment and Party-Building:

  • Himmler’s real talents: networking, finding power, ingratiating himself with higher-ups.
    • “His great talent ... is finding men who are... close to the Fuhrer and getting to them.” (34:10, Brett)
  • He took on a central role in Nazi propaganda and stealth party-building during times Hitler was banned from speaking.

The Psychology of Young Adherents (31:44 – 32:39)

• Why Young Men Fall for Extremism:
  • “If you’re 23 and you’re meeting these dudes... we finna overthrow the government? You tell 21-year-old me... hell yeah!” (31:44, Jason)
  • Explores the appeal of extreme groups to aimless, alienated young men—parallels with modern radicalization.

3. Himmler’s Personal Life and Relationships

Awkwardness, Misogyny, and the Search for the Aryan Ideal (44:18 – 57:34)

• Himmler’s Weird Ideas about Women:

  • Private diaries reveal a bizarre, reductionist view: all women fit into three categories—the weak mother, the wife/comrade (basically a man), and the goddess/flawless mother.
    • Quote (sarcastic incredulity): “All women fall into three groups, right?” (45:41, Brett)
    • “Let me stop you right there, homeboy. What you finna say is gonna be dumb as shit.” (45:43, Jason)

• Influence of Upbringing:

  • Himmler’s own grandma gives “buy the cow from the stall” wisdom, set up as an example of generational misogyny. (47:29 onwards)

• Engagement and Frustration:

  • Himmler laments being unable to fully possess his fiancé’s spirit/body during engagement—presented as clear evidence of his entitled, incel tendencies.

Courtship and Marriage with Marga (49:40 – 60:36)

• Meeting Marga Siegroth:

  • She is older, more experienced, and matches his social class—yet also just as much of a racist and misanthrope.
  • Quote: “Their common rejection of democracy, their hatred for ... Jews...and their misanthropy... How false and bad humans are.” (54:36, summary from Private Heinrich Himmler)
  • Their initial relationship was characterized by arguments and even near-fistfights (Marga would have won, hosts agree).

• The Reality of ‘Back to the Land’:

  • After marriage, they buy a farm for ideological reasons, but Marga does all the work—Himmler lectures about peasant virtues from a distance.
    • “She’s the Übermensch. ... She’s the one putting in the lion’s share of the work here.” (60:37, Jason & Brett)
    • “He talks about how people should live, and Marga lives that life while he’s staying in nice hotels...” (67:10, Brett)

4. Formation and Evolution of the SS

Why the SS Was Created: Internal Nazi Power Struggles (67:08 – 77:58)

• Rome, SA, and Party Control:

  • Rome’s growing power over Nazi militia (SA) alarmed Hitler—he wants a force not loyal to Rome.
  • “Hitler orders the formation of the SS...not to fight Nazism’s enemies, but to fight other Nazis.” (71:33, Brett)

• The Early SS:

  • The SS initially functioned as a private bodyguard unit, with strict requirements and an ethos of being elite and controlled (not “drunken louts and reprobates” like the SA).
  • “The SA...are just goons. The SS are criminals, but they’re like disciplined, mob criminals.” (70:36, Brett/Jason)

• Himmler’s Rise to Power:

  • Joins SS in 1928, exploits rival’s Jewish tailor to get him ousted, becomes Reichsführer-SS.
    • Quote: “As soon as he gets admitted...he rats on his boss...‘Hey, you know the guy who’s running your bodyguard? His tailor’s Jewish.’ ...That’s how Himmler gets the job running the SS.” (77:09, Brett)
    • “He snitches!” (77:34, Jason)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On bored, privileged young men and Nazi mysticism:
  “Boredom’s a sign of privilege in some ways.” (11:57, Jason)

• On Himmler’s romantic ineptitude:
  “He is very, like, strong incel vibes coming off this kid.” (46:39, Brett)

• On the foundational stupidity of Nazi race ideology:
  “No, like it just depends on where you want to start your timeline.” (58:31, Jason)

• On the difference between the SA and SS:
  “The SA are just the guy on meth who steals your car...You can count on them to get into street fights, but not to be particularly good at it.” (70:36, Brett)

• On joining extremist movements:
  “If you’re 23... meeting these dudes who have been to war... We finna overthrow the government... I never saw it as exciting from a human perspective—until right now.” (31:44–32:15, Jason)

• On Nazi social mobility:
  “His great talent... is finding men who are... close to the Fuhrer and getting to them.” (34:10, Brett)

Flow and Tone

The conversation is fast-paced, irreverent, and peppered with pop-culture references (e.g., Indiana Jones, Wu-Tang Clan, Shrek). Humor is used to highlight absurdities and provide critical distance, but the hosts never lose sight of the horror inherent in the topic. There is a clear emphasis on the human (and all-too-familiar) psychology that makes extremism seductive: insecurity, boredom, longing for belonging, and delusions of grandeur.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• The Ghosts of German Nationalism (Von List): 03:02 – 14:55
• Beer Hall Putsch and Nazi Party Early Dynamics: 30:04 – 37:44
• Himmler’s Bizarre Views on Women: 44:18 – 46:51
• Himmler and Marga: Racist Romance: 49:40 – 54:51
• Himmler’s Farm and Family Life: 60:36 – 67:08
• Rise and Purpose of the SS: 67:08 – 77:34
• Himmler’s Final Power Grab (Becoming SS Leader): 77:34 – 78:14

Summary & Takeaway

This episode unveils the odd and often pathetic roots of one of history’s most monstrous figures. Himmler is depicted not as a supervillain from birth, but as a maladjusted, privileged nerd within a subculture obsessed with false histories, violent mentors, and belonging. The show offers a warning about the dangers of combining fantasy with political resentment, and how the quest for significance can help ordinary people become history’s worst villains.

Further Listening

• Previous episodes on Himmler’s early life and Nazi occultism
• Next episode: What Himmler does as head of the SS

"Do we need to argue with the dead Nazi?" (49:34, Brett) – No, but understanding his psychology might help us keep from making new ones.