Part Two: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz

Summary

Behind the Bastards: The Ballad of Bo Gritz (Part Two, Live Show – 11/20/2025)
Podcast Host: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
Panelists: Bobby Finger, Sarah Marshall, Cody Johnston
Summary prepared by Podcast Summarizer

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Overview

This episode continues the bizarre and unsettling chronicle of Bo Gritz—decorated Vietnam War veteran, conspiracy theorist, failed commando leader, and later a figurehead in America’s militia and far-right movements. The hosts, with their signature irreverent banter, dissect Gritz’s doomed “rescue” missions, the larger-than-life cast of characters around him, and his slow transformation into a folk hero for American extremists. Live audience energy, humor, and a blend of exasperation and fascination punctuate the discussion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recap & Launch of Operation Velvet Hammer (02:59–05:47)

• Bo Gritz’s Motivations: Picking up from the previous episode, Gritz continues his grift, fundraising across the country with fabricated stories about U.S. POWs left behind in Vietnam.

• Operation Velvet Hammer (1981): Gritz gathers “21 drifters, dreamers, and desperados,” including a psychic and hypnotherapist (05:00), and begins training... at the American Cheerleading Association Academy in Florida.

  “If you’re Bo Gritz, the place you pick is the American Cheerleading Association Academy in Leesburg, Florida. Obviously.”
  — Bobby Finger [07:12]

• Panel Reaction: Panelists riff on the absurdity of military training at a cheerleading academy and the recruitment of oddball “experts.”

2. Portrait of the Commandos: Terry Smith & Maniacal Fantasies (08:13–12:50)

• Introduction of Terry Smith: A supposed former Green Beret, equally eager and unhinged, famous for outlandish, graphic war stories and violent fantasies.

  “When I shoot the first commie, I’m going to have an orgasm.”
  — Quoted from Terry Smith [08:49]

• The hosts interrogate the credibility of such claims, ironically suggesting this caliber of derangement should prohibit gun ownership.

• Time Magazine Reports: The training atmosphere is described as a testosterone-fueled mess, with rucksacks, military ballads, and overt fantasy fulfillment.

  “They were just high on the idea, adrenaline, and the Ballad of the Green Berets blaring over the loudspeaker.”
  — Time Magazine (as read by Bobby) [12:35]

3. Inept Plans, Comical Logistics, and Repeated Failure (12:51–24:55)

• Plan Details: The team’s strategy includes flying to Laos as “tourists,” renting a house on the Mekong, pretending to offer humanitarian aid, smuggling guns, mingling with guerrillas, and distributing self-printed IOUs as “get out of jail free” cards.

  “These are just … I carry one of those in my pocket now.”
  — Bobby Finger [13:49]

• Run Out of Funds in Florida: Terry Smith’s solution is to rob local cocaine dealers for travel money (15:10), revealing a blending of criminal and paramilitary absurdity.

• Final “Mission”: When the group finally makes it to Laos, they are immediately ambushed—not by communists, but by rival anti-communist Laotians. Gritz is forced to pay ransom to retrieve a captured teammate, and the only “POW” they recover is their own member (23:04–24:13).

4. Celebrity Donors & Hollywood Connections (21:52–28:14)

• High-profile Backers: Clint Eastwood donates $30,000; William Shatner offers $10,000 in exchange for the rights to Gritz’s life story (22:17–23:10).

• Pop Culture Impact: Bo’s escapades inspire “Rambo: First Blood Part 2,” Chuck Norris’s “Missing in Action” movies, “Uncommon Valor,” and even partly the A-Team’s Hannibal Smith (27:16).

  “The character Hannibal Smith on the A-Team inspired partly by Bo Gritz. Serious.”
  — Bobby Finger [27:02]

5. From Grifter to Far-Right Icon: Politics & Almost Heaven (28:41–47:26)

• Shift to Politics: Gritz becomes an influencer in the militia movement, stars in “Rescue Force,” and runs as Vice Presidential candidate for the Populist Party (backed by notorious Holocaust denier Willis Carto). David Duke becomes the presidential nominee, and Gritz’s reaction is telling.

  “He met with David Duke and made him promise a solemn swear promise not to be a racist in the campaign... What more can you ask?”
  — Bobby Finger [34:27–35:11]

• Later Reflections: Years later, Gritz claims he “immediately resigned” upon hearing Duke was the nominee, conflicting with contemporary news reporting.

• Ruby Ridge Negotiations: In one of his few positive contributions, Gritz mediated the end of the Ruby Ridge standoff, likely preventing further deaths (39:05–40:56).

• Racism and Anti-Semitism: Despite denials, Gritz espouses deep antisemitic conspiracy theories and uses homophobic slurs during public rants, as reported by the SPLC (41:00–43:05).

6. Northwest Imperative & The “Almost Heaven” Militia Community (44:18–48:41)

• The “Northwest Imperative”: Gritz sells land in Idaho for a militia intentional community, “Almost Heaven,” envisioned as a white-rights stronghold—though it is hampered from the start by legal and financial incompetence ([44:44–47:06]).
• Collapse: Lawsuits erupt as buyers cannot obtain titles or insurance. Business failures and personal betrayals follow.

7. Final Years and Personal Tragedy (49:00–49:56)

• Personal Downfall: Gritz’s community collapses, his business partner flees with the funds, his wife leaves, and Gritz survives a suicide attempt in 1998.
• Ongoing Legacy: Despite everything, Gritz remains alive at the time of recording, serving as a reminder of how extremism, grifting, and delusions swirled together in late 20th-century America.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “I promise you, you don't have the right answer.” — Sarah Marshall, on where to train for a Laos mission [06:57]
• “Cheerleader's middle name is Lynne!” — Cody Johnston [07:55], bantering about the academy
• “When I shoot the first commie, I'm going to have an orgasm.” — Terry Smith, quoted [08:49]
• “America didn’t send you. You are going to be robbed immediately.” — Cody Johnston [13:49]
• “All the good, all of the real information comes from massage artists.” — Bobby Finger satirizing the intelligence-gathering plan [21:04]
• “Clint Eastwood sent $30,000 and allegedly promised to get Ronald Reagan’s blessing...” — Bobby Finger [22:17]
• “He met with David Duke and made him promise... not to be a racist in the campaign.” — Bobby Finger [35:11]
• “You might have run with Hitler if he promised not to run a racist campaign.” — Bobby Finger [36:20]
• “He’s still alive. God. Yeah, I know. It’s a bummer.” — Bobby Finger, on Gritz surviving into the 2000s [41:44]
• “Stop letting him name things!” — Sarah Marshall, about Gritz's branding (“Spike,” “Almost Heaven”) [43:18; 44:51]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Operation Velvet Hammer Recap: [02:59–05:47]
• Cheerleading Academy “Boot Camp”: [06:12–08:13]
• Terry Smith’s Fantasies: [08:13–12:50]
• Ridiculous Plan Details: [12:51–14:58]
• Coke Dealer Robbery Plot: [15:10–15:47]
• Ambush in Laos: [23:04–24:13]
• Hollywood Connections: [21:52–23:10; 27:16–28:14]
• Populist Party / David Duke Story: [28:41–36:05]
• Ruby Ridge Mediation: [39:05–40:56]
• Antisemitic Quotes: [41:00–42:26]
• The “Almost Heaven” Militia Community: [44:18–48:41]
• Personal Downfall and Attempted Suicide: [49:00–49:56]

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Tone and Style

The hosts maintain a sardonic, darkly comic tone throughout—a mix of horror at the events, mockery of the self-important and destructive behavior of Gritz and his followers, and incredulous laughter. The live audience occasionally reacts audibly, adding to the boisterous mood.

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Conclusion

The “Ballad of Bo Gritz” ends not with a bang, but with a cautionary groan: a reminder of how American myths and failures can swirl into dangerous movements and lasting cultural legacies. Between lunatic misadventures and real-world harm, Gritz’s tale is a microcosm of late 20th-century conspiracy, paramilitarism, and the ugly undercurrents of American populism—filtered through the ever-sharp lens of the Behind the Bastards crew.

Transcript

[Bobby Finger]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sarah Marshall]

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and, well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure, you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell, oatmeal. So long, you strange soggy.

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[Josh Zeman]

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control.

[Bobby Finger]

And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years.

[Cody Johnston]

That's probably not long enough.

[Bobby Finger]

That didn't kill him.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

From revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to revisionist history, the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Finger]

Call zone.

[Cody Johnston]

Okay, like a. Like a grown up.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm gonna sit normally now you can.

[Cody Johnston]

Sit like a grown up.

[Bobby Finger]

Let's give a hands up to.

[Sarah Marshall]

I feel like that was for you.

[Bobby Finger]

Don't fucking control me.

[Sarah Marshall]

I feel like I got.

[Cody Johnston]

I booed you turning the chair around.

[Sarah Marshall]

No, they don't control you. But clearly I do.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, There you go.

[Cody Johnston]

There's never been a question about that. You control us all. Also shout out us graduating our booze, not me.

[Bobby Finger]

Yes, yes, we've moved up to hard liquor.

[Cody Johnston]

We've moved up.

[Bobby Finger]

You're on to bourbon. Brown is the brown liquor.

[Cody Johnston]

You want to have brown?

[Sarah Marshall]

Because I gotta walk in the crowd later, and I'm very afraid of falling.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, that part's gonna be fun. So shall we return to the story of Beau Gritz? Right. So when we last left off, Beau was touring the country telling lies that he didn't need to tell about Vietnam and raising money to. And send a bunch of goons back to Southeast Asia to rescue a bunch of guys who were not in Southeast Asia.

[Cody Johnston]

Is he bored?

[Bobby Finger]

Like, I mean, this seems more fun than, like, getting a job. What would you rather do, Lie to television about Vietnam and take a bunch of money to go vacation in Thailand or work? I mean, yeah, look, I'm lying about being.

[Cody Johnston]

I don't think I would like X much. Do the gun. Like, I would just go vacation.

[Bobby Finger]

That's the part about.

[Cody Johnston]

That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm like, yeah, I'd go and.

[Bobby Finger]

Just never come back. And unfortunately, Bo does not have that governor in his head. No, no. When you and I start our Vietnam grift, it's gonna go a lot better. It's gonna go a lot better.

[Cody Johnston]

There'll be a lot of timeshares involved.

[Bobby Finger]

It's gonna be hard convincing people in 2040 that there's still US soldiers trapped in Vietnam. Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

You can't tell me I'm wrong. Deep down, Bo is just a podcast.

[Bobby Finger]

So Beau's touring the country. He's speaking on different TV shows. He's talking at churches, at veterans organizations. He's telling all these stories. And, yeah, after months of raising money, he launches what he calls Operation Velvet Hammer in 1981.

[Sarah Marshall]

Come on, man.

[Bobby Finger]

I know. That's a good one. That's a good one.

[Cody Johnston]

Where I draw the line, fam.

[Bobby Finger]

I would use that title if I was writing a screenplay called Operation Velvet Hammer.

[Cody Johnston]

That is.

[Bobby Finger]

It would be about a strip club that had to arm themselves.

[Cody Johnston]

Yes. I was like, this is a porn.

[Bobby Finger]

In order to carry. No, not a porn.

[Cody Johnston]

Velvet Hammer.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. One of the employees at the strip club gets kidnapped by a mafia, and the others have to form a commando unit to rescue them.

[Cody Johnston]

So it's like a stripper escape room.

[Bobby Finger]

Yes, kind of. Yes, yes. It's Portland.

[Sarah Marshall]

We probably have.

[Cody Johnston]

That exists.

[Bobby Finger]

No, no. It's like. It's, like, taken, but instead of there being one Liam Neeson, there's a bunch. And they're all strippers. Right. Like, that's the story that's not a bad idea for. I'm just gonna. Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

Greenlit.

[Bobby Finger]

Thank you.

[Cody Johnston]

I do think an adult escape room might actually be a viable business.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Yeah. A viable business that will immediately get, like, the lawsuits. Immediately, the lawsuits. Oh, my God. Immediately. So, yes, it launches Operation Velvet Hammer in 1981. Writing for Time magazine, Pico Iyer reports that Beau gathered up, quote, 21 drifters, dreamers, and desperados recruited a psychic, a hypnotherapist, and some reporters and began practicing.

[Cody Johnston]

Okay, wait. Okay, Okay. I might be here for this one. I'm kind of on his team now.

[Bobby Finger]

If I'm putting together a platoon of veterans in order to, like, rescue guys, what do you need? Well, you need some drifters, obviously. You're gonna need some dreamers, some desperados, a psychic. Clearly a psychic. You're not gonna get far without a hypnotherapist. And, of course, some reporters.

[Cody Johnston]

I might be on his team for this one. Okay.

[Bobby Finger]

And so they start training together to go into Laos and to rescue, or at least find proof that there's men being held prisoner across the border in Vietnam. Now, Prop, if you're training roughly a platoon's worth of guys who are already combat veterans, but if you're training them to insert themselves without any support into some of the most dangerous terrain on earth in order to rescue prisoners from a heavily guarded camp, where would you do that training?

[Cody Johnston]

I mean, caveat would be, I wouldn't be doing this training if you were.

[Bobby Finger]

If you were the worst thing to do.

[Sarah Marshall]

I promise you, you don't have the right answer.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, I know.

[Cody Johnston]

Where would I do this?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Where would you train these guys to go into Laos?

[Cody Johnston]

Somewhere similar to Laos.

[Bobby Finger]

That's a good answer. It's close, but.

[Cody Johnston]

No, no, no.

[Bobby Finger]

If you're Bo Grights, the place you pick is the American Cheerleading Association Academy in Leesburg, Florida. Obviously. Where would you guys go? Right?

[Cody Johnston]

You made that. That's not what that said. Look, Bo, ain't no way in the world. That's what your script says.

[Bobby Finger]

Sun Tzu says, know your enemy and know yourself, and you need not fear the result of a thousand battles. I think Bo knows the North Vietnamese.

[Sarah Marshall]

I think he also said, burr, it's golden.

[Bobby Finger]

Sophie, I was going to do a bit about how North Vietnam based all of their fighting strategies on cheerleading, but, I mean, you already took it from me. So we're good. We're good.

[Sarah Marshall]

I was one step ahead.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Marshall]

Just like the cheerleader.

[Bobby Finger]

Just like the cheerleader.

[Cody Johnston]

Cheerleader's middle name is Lin1 of Bose.

[Bobby Finger]

To give you an idea of the callow.

[Cody Johnston]

That was a throwaway joke. Y' all catch that one? Y' all catch that Joae joke? The middle name is Lynn. She's Kaylee Lynn. You know what I'm saying?

[Bobby Finger]

Dang.

[Cody Johnston]

Sorry.

[Sarah Marshall]

I can't.

[Bobby Finger]

I literally.

[Cody Johnston]

So I apologize.

[Bobby Finger]

I should give you an idea of the kind of men that Beau's working with. So one of his volunteers is a guy named Terry Smith. Now, Terry is a former Green Beret, so that's good, right? You probably want someone with that kind of experience on the team. Now, before getting involved in Velvet Hammer, Terry had been training to become a college football player. And he quit spring training to go to Laos with Beau. He told Time when they asked him why I gave up something I've always wanted. But there were at least a dozen Green Berets on operations in that area in Laos who never got out. When I shoot the first commie, I'm going to have an orgasm. I'm going to come out.

[Cody Johnston]

Wait, this is gone off the rails, okay?

[Bobby Finger]

I'm going to come out with a POW or die trying. I figure we'll either go down in history or start World War three. That's a beautiful mind. That's a beautiful mind. I'm sorry.

[Cody Johnston]

You need to stay home.

[Bobby Finger]

You need to not have a gun.

[Cody Johnston]

Not have a gun.

[Bobby Finger]

Look, you know, we could talk about the Second Amendment, but that should get your guns taken away.

[Cody Johnston]

I feel like.

[Bobby Finger]

No, no, no. Hand them over. I'm sorry. Like.

[Cody Johnston]

Yes, absolutely not.

[Sarah Marshall]

This person is unwell.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, very. Oh, you haven't even. We have not finished with Terry Smith.

[Cody Johnston]

So that's. That's. That's the name.

[Bobby Finger]

Terry. Terry Smith. That's very Terry behavior. Yeah. Sorry. If there's any. Are there any Terry's in the audience. Thank God.

[Cody Johnston]

Wow.

[Bobby Finger]

Thank God.

[Sarah Marshall]

Thank God it's a Terry friezo because.

[Cody Johnston]

I can't stand those motherfuckers now. I'm all.

[Bobby Finger]

There's.

[Cody Johnston]

There's 500 people in this room and none of y' all are Terry.

[Bobby Finger]

It's not a real name.

[Cody Johnston]

That's an interesting stat.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, it's a fake name. I think Terry was a CIA plant.

[Cody Johnston]

Anyway, especially with that type of talk.

[Bobby Finger]

Right, right.

[Cody Johnston]

That's some very much some, like, blacks rule energy, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, we don't call ourselves that. Right. Like, we would never write Black's rule.

[Bobby Finger]

Okay.

[Cody Johnston]

I'm just.

[Bobby Finger]

Bo'S roughly two dozen guys. Right. Smith, you Know this guy we quoted from, purportedly a combat veteran, but no one's checking up on that. I say he said he was a Green Beret. All these guys say that they had been involved. No one's checking.

[Sarah Marshall]

Wait, was he not? Was he not?

[Bobby Finger]

I don't know. No one knows. No one looked. No one asked. These are men who showed up at a cheerleading academy in Florida and said, I'm willing to travel to Laos to kill street strangers. God, who knows what they did for a long time.

[Cody Johnston]

That there might be one of our.

[Bobby Finger]

Friends there, maybe our buddies there.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm just saying Eric Prince is foaming at the mouth.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, beyond foaming. And not just at the mouth. So.

[Sarah Marshall]

My mom is here.

[Bobby Finger]

Hi, Sophie's mom.

[Sarah Marshall]

Hi, Mom.

[Bobby Finger]

So Terry told reporters a lot of beautiful nonsense. Not beautiful nonsense, a lot of nonsense. One of his stories that he would tell the news was that when he was in Vietnam, he watched a whole platoon of NVA soldiers stop and cut up a pregnant woman together. Quote, I wanted to rip their heads off, but I couldn't do nothing about it. Now, look, no side in any war has a monopoly on war crimes. But 30 guys all stopped to cut up a single pregnant woman. It's just not the sort of war crime I'm going to believe happened unless you have some evidence, Right? That's just a weird move, right? What was the situation where you couldn't do anything? These guys are all occupied, and you're just like, what are you claiming was going on here, Terry? I don't know. That said, do drink because it is a war crime. So get on it, folks. Now, I think that this is the kind of nonsense that fits in less with what actually happened and more with the fact that all these guys are now telling tall tales about the things that actually happened in order to express their fantasies. They're trying to justify the fact that they want to go murder a bunch of strangers in the jungle, Right? So you have to tell, like, what's the worst thing I can imagine? Well, this would justify me doing whatever, right? This summary of that Florida gathering by Time magazine really says a lot. Quote, they were just high on the idea. Adrenaline and the ballad of the Green Berets blaring over the loudspeaker at all of them. And ex Special Forces Sergeant Stone, still embittered about losing his son in Vietnam. And Terry Smith humping a rucksack, urging them on, suck that clean Florida air. Just a maniac. All these guys, maniacs in the.

[Cody Johnston]

Oh, man.

[Bobby Finger]

Their plan. The plan that they're Training for is nuts from the jump. Bo's idea. We're all gonna fly in to Laos as tourists, and then we'll rent a house on the Mekong Delta across from Vietnam, and we'll pretend to be providing humanitarian aid to Cambod refugees. We'll get smuggled a bunch of machine guns, which should be easy, obviously. And then we'll embed with friendly anti communist guerrillas fighting the Vietnamese state across the border. Right? And they'll help us find these POWs. If we're captured, we're going to travel with gold so we can pay our ransoms. And we're going to bring with us, just in case, what they called get out of jail free cards. These were self printed IOUs promising $1,000 if someone took them in the bearer to a US embass. The embassies had not agreed to validate these. First of all, these are just. I carry one of those in my pocket now.

[Cody Johnston]

Yeah. First of all, America didn't send you number one. And number two, you are going to be robbed immediately.

[Bobby Finger]

Immediately. Oh, crap. You've seen where this is going? Yeah. So the next part of the plan is, once they find a POW camp, we will either break everyone out or we'll take pictures, depending on the situation. And then we'll send the proof back to D.C. and that'll convince the President to send air support from the seventh Fleet in. Right. We will start the war in Vietnam right there. He's gonna immediately call in an airstrike and we'll free these guys now.

[Cody Johnston]

Bro, this is like pre. Like, this ain't no Internet. Like, how long you gonna call the President from Laos?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, you're gonna call the President from fucking Laos, and you're gonna get him to send the 7th Fleet to bomb Vietnam again 10 years after the war ends. Okay, great. Great idea, guys. Amazing. And Beau's plan is that, like, obviously we'll win a second time, right? Like, you know, it's like when you're like playing your brother or something at Smash Brothers and like, he like, gets you, but he just, like, he just mashed buttons, you know, he's not gonna mash those buttons the same way again. Vietnam was like that, right? Maybe you pick Samus the next time. That was Bo's.

[Cody Johnston]

That was Bo's point your brother beating the brakes off you every time, right?

[AM PM Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

Got it.

[Bobby Finger]

So, unfortunately, the money that Beau raised telling pointless lies about his time in Vietnam did not extend past partying in Florida. One member of the group, because. So they run out of money at the cheerleading academy. Oh, really? And one member of the group, Terry fucking Smith, suggests, hey, guys, I know how we can get some extra money. We're in Florida. It's the 80s. Let's go murder a bunch of coke dealers and take their money and go fund our trip to Vietnam. Well, to Laos. With coke dealer money.

[Cody Johnston]

I said to myself, they gonna say they gonna sell coke? And I was like, nah, that'd be dumb.

[Bobby Finger]

No, that'd be dumb. They're gonna take money from coke dealers.

[Cody Johnston]

I was like, oh, you gonna rob coke dealers? Oh, yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

We're gonna start an independent war with the cartels so that we can start an independent war with Vietnam, you know, at their base.

[Cody Johnston]

Cheerleading K. Cheerleading out of the cheerleading base.

[Bobby Finger]

Now, Terry Smith told Time magazine, if I gotta kill 20American bad guys to get 100 POWs out of Vietnam, I'll do it. Of course, Terry. Absolutely.

[Sarah Marshall]

Terry said, go fight.

[Bobby Finger]

Roar. That was good, Sophie. Thank you. Thank you. This is an advertisement by betterhelp. As seasons change and days grow darker sooner, it can get tough for a lot of people. This November, BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out to check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind the people in your life that you're there. Just like it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can feel difficult too, but it's worth it. And it almost always leaves people wondering, why didn't I do this sooner? And if you are interested in therapy, you might try BetterHelp. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading. Match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. But if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. From their tailored recommendations this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] behind. That's betterhelp.com behind.

[Sarah Marshall]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Bobby Finger]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

Craving it and it's convenient.

[Sarah Marshall]

Could you be more specific?

[AM PM Ad Voice]

When it's cravinient? Okay, like A freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the.

[Bobby Finger]

Street at am, pm.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[Bobby Finger]

Grab in just a second at am, pm.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Sarah Marshall]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

What more could you want? Stop by am pm where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Am, pm.

[Bobby Finger]

Too much.

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[AM PM Ad Voice]

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[Bobby Finger]

We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets from Tenderfoot.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

TV and iHeart podcasts. This is Le Manstre Season 2, the Butcher of Moss, available now listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Finger]

So Operation Velvet Hammer worked out about as well as an actual velvet hammer. After this, Bo doesn't give up. That's one thing the military taught him how to stick. The military taught him two things. One is how to stick to a plan, and the other is how to not win a war in Vietnam. Right. Those are the two things he learns from his service. So Bo organizes a smaller group to hunt for clues in Thailand. And I have to assume that the word hunt here means smoke and the word clues here stands for tie sticks. Anyway, they find no information about any POWs hunting in Thailand.

[Cody Johnston]

He's just shooting out arbitrary countries that are, like, close to where.

[Bobby Finger]

Look, you know what we say? That actually prophesied. If you guys want to donate some money, you know, really, really coffin and give deep. I think we could find some POWs in Thailand.

[Cody Johnston]

I'm pretty sure we, we're.

[Bobby Finger]

We're going to need like six weeks at LA Meridian in Bangkok. And I think we can knock it out. I really think we can knock it out.

[Sarah Marshall]

I was a little specific.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, well, just one boat.

[Cody Johnston]

It's just, it's just. Look, it's just one bus into the, into the bush.

[Bobby Finger]

Right.

[Cody Johnston]

But we could stay out there and.

[Bobby Finger]

Based in the LA Meridian.

[Cody Johnston]

Based. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do some, do some like mental health work and look, massages.

[Sarah Marshall]

This podcast is not sponsored by Law Meridian.

[Bobby Finger]

Aren't all in intel, but let me tell you, as a CIA man, all of the good, all of the real information comes from massage artists. So my plan is to get like eight hours of massages a day. Right. And that then I'll figure out where all of the prisoners are. Sophie, it's a good idea.

[Cody Johnston]

And most of them, most of them speak English, right?

[Bobby Finger]

I don't know.

[Cody Johnston]

Also, as a side note, as I've been sitting here, I thought Velvet Hammer also sounds like a Prince album.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, that would be a pretty good.

[Cody Johnston]

Name for a Prince album anyway.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Also not a bad band name. Anyway, how are they not out of.

[Sarah Marshall]

Money completely at this point?

[Bobby Finger]

Well, they're continuing, actually. We'll talk about who's giving them money because that's fun, Sophie. That's really fun. So Bo keeps raising money and public awareness of US POWs that are definitely still trapped in Vietnam. He succeeds in securing several high profile celebrity donations.

[Sarah Marshall]

Wait, who do you think it is?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, who do you think it is? Give me two names.

[Cody Johnston]

Kissinger.

[Bobby Finger]

No, celebrities. Celebrities like movie stars.

[Sarah Marshall]

Movie star, movie star.

[Bobby Finger]

Movie or tv?

[Cody Johnston]

I was like John Wayne, Robert Redford.

[Bobby Finger]

Ollie North's not a TV star or a movie star at this point in time.

[Sarah Marshall]

You're all very close, but you're not there yet.

[Bobby Finger]

No. Yup.

[Sarah Marshall]

Who said.

[Bobby Finger]

He said Eastwood. Clint Eastwood sins $30,000 and allegedly promised to get Ronald Reagan's blessing. Allegedly. Bo says Clint said, if you can find proof of a pow, I'll make sure Reagan sends in an airstrike. Right. I don't know if Clint Eastwood did shit other than he definitely sent the money. Right. And then no one's going to guess this. William Shatner donated ten, to be fair, to our boy Bill Shatner sends ten grand if in exchange for the rights to Grits to Bo Gr's life. Right. Bill's got an angle. We know.

[Cody Johnston]

I see the play. I see the play.

[Bobby Finger]

Captain Kirk knows what he's doing. Respect. Right?

[Cody Johnston]

Actually respect. You Know what I'm saying?

[Sarah Marshall]

I think 10k is a hilarious amount for his life, right?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. So the money that they raise is enough that In November of 1982, Bo finally succeeds in taking a commando team to Laos, where the most obvious thing happens, and I want to quote from Bruce Franklin's book MIA here, Almost as soon as they arrived in Laos, they were ambushed, routed, and forced to flee as fast as they could back to Thailand. The ambushers, contrary to their initial assumptions, were not even treacherous communists, but a rival anti communist Laotian group whom Greitz's men had offended in Thailand and to whom Greitz, ironically enough, reportedly had to pay $17,500 ransom to recover a captured American teammate. The Raiders, of course, encountered no POWs. Now, there's a couple of things about this. First off, they did kind of succeed in rescuing a pow.

[Cody Johnston]

Yes, touche.

[Bobby Finger]

Did they bring that POW with them? Yes, but they did save him. Second.

[Cody Johnston]

That is glorious.

[Bobby Finger]

It's time for another drink. Because also two of his local Laotian guides die in the ambush, which is very sad. Although you have to imagine the guys who are taking him into the jungle. Probably not great, right? The dudes who were working with this guy. I don't know. Anyway, that said, still sad. Take a drink.

[Cody Johnston]

That is so funny.

[Bobby Finger]

So not the death, not the deaths, but. But the fact that they immediately get ambushed, robbed and ransomed. Super funny. Now, if you're keeping track, the only American captive they've encountered is someone they brought with them. But the very next month, Bo tries again. Flying to Thailand and renting a thousand dollar a month safe house. And a thousand dollars a month in the 1980s. That is a nice fucking safe house.

[Cody Johnston]

A lot of money.

[Bobby Finger]

Again, prop, we could find some information.

[Cody Johnston]

Listen, in a thousand dollar a month.

[Bobby Finger]

Safe house, some of y' all could come in the money. Today you're staying at a night. Well, thousand a month, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Safe houses, you know, they're on a sliding scale. So one of those comrades claims to have totally seen bad guys across the border drilling with weapons. Sure, Maybe. Like it's Vietnam. They have an army now. Like they're their country. Right. Like they're allowed to do that. He's like, I was so angry. I couldn't fight. It's their country. What are you doing over there? You came? Yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

He flew all the way from Florida?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah.

[Josh Zeman]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, presumably from Florida. Yeah. So Beau's last attempt was in the spring of 1983, and it ended when Thai police Immediately arrested two of his commandos for possession of illegal radio transmitters.

[Cody Johnston]

So did nobody ask y' all to come?

[Bobby Finger]

Fam, no one wants you here.

[Cody Johnston]

You did not need to be here. Okay?

[Bobby Finger]

This is not a success by any definition, but it got attention. People do pay attention to what Beau is doing. He gets hauled before Congress in March of 1983. Now, Congress had concluded, as I said, in 1976, that there were no more POWs being held by Vietnam. So Beau was asked, what evidence do you have to counter these conclusions? And Bo answers, I have the same evidence that might be presented to a convention of clergymen who. That God exists. So, like, none. Wait, so, like, none?

[Cody Johnston]

That's not a bar.

[Bobby Finger]

No evidence.

[Cody Johnston]

That's not a bar.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm not. I'm not anti. You know, faith or whatever, but we don't invade countries based on. Well, we do, actually. A lot, actually. You know what? All the time. That's actually often why we invade. Okay, point to Bo. Now, in another interview, one of Beau's former volunteers, Tom Smith, said, I wouldn't cross the street with this guy. He's suffering from the early stages of burning a bush complex, which. First off, it's not burning a bush. I don't understand why you said it that way.

[Cody Johnston]

No, that's a real viable bus.

[Bobby Finger]

Burning. It's a burning bush.

[Cody Johnston]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

You're not burning. Maybe he's saying he was lighting a bush on fire to, like, fake it. I guess that could be good.

[Cody Johnston]

I don't know. Maybe it's some slang. We just don't know.

[Bobby Finger]

Maybe. Yeah, yeah. This is some old.

[Sarah Marshall]

There are more important things here.

[Bobby Finger]

Continue. Sure.

[Cody Johnston]

Yes, ma'.

[Bobby Finger]

Am. Now, the attention that Beau drew mattered, though, to someone. Well, to a group, Hollywood. Beau's story inspired and did legitimately inspire First Blood Part 2, in which John Rambo was sent to a secret US base in Thailand to invade Vietnam on his own and Rescue POWs. There's other movies that were inspired by Bo's story. Chuck Norris's Missing in Action series and the Gene Hackman film Uncommon Valor. RIP, Gene. We're also inspired by Bo's fantasies of rescuing POWs overseas. And here's my favorite side. The character Hannibal Smith on the A Team inspired partly by Bo Grace. Serious. Yeah, I know Hannibal. And the real. Number one, the real Hannibal would have found those POWs if they were there.

[Cody Johnston]

Absolutely. And number two, I would have pityed them fools.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Sorry.

[Bobby Finger]

I do love the A Team. You can tell.

[Sarah Marshall]

Prop said it. Half a drink.

[Cody Johnston]

This was like. This was like. He poured this like a glass of water. It was a thick pour, like, shout out, whoever. Like, yeah, you trying to put me up?

[Bobby Finger]

It was as thick as the C4 necklace around that guy. So what? I didn't do it.

[Cody Johnston]

You're supposed to say no.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, no.

[Bobby Finger]

All right, everybody, do your drink. So after 1983, Beau seems to have largely and quietly given up on his plans to rescue these totally real US POWs in order to become an influencer in the growing militia movement. He joined the Mormon Church, starred in a direct. No, no, you gotta wait for the sentence to finish. Starred in a direct to video ripoff of Charlie's Angels called Rescue Force. I know what everyone's watching tonight. And in 1988, agreed to run as the vice presidential candidate for the Populist Party. Anybody know the Populist Party? Anybody heard of these guys? Well, they were the political party of a group called the Liberty Lobby, which was founded by a guy we've talked about on behind the Bastards, a Holocaust denier and Hitler fan, Willis Carteau. Right. There we go.

[Cody Johnston]

Yeah, it all together, guys.

[Bobby Finger]

Willis Carto is like. I mean, he is like the grandfather of American fascism as an organized political movement that is, like, working within, like, mainstream conservatism and attempting to radicalize and influence mainstream conservatism. Right. Carto is the guy. He was the dude who was a lot smarter than, like, the neo Nazis. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You gotta dress this shit up a little bit if you're gonna do it. And Carto sees Beau and he's like, charismatic war hero, good at getting media attention. And Carto kind of scouts him to be the VP candidate. Right. Beau says that he was poached directly by Willis Carteau. Although Beau would then later claim that he was shocked and appalled by when at that year's convention for the Populist Party, the presidential nomination was won by another fellow you might have heard of, David Duke.

[Cody Johnston]

I'll tell you what, man, this Carteau guy must be really smiling in hell right now.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, he's having a great time in hell.

[Cody Johnston]

He's having a great time in hell right now.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah.

[Josh Zeman]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zieman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

In 1997 in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like the Path of Worry, Dump Road and Fear Creek. Discoveries of Saturday. Investigators made a new discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer. Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects.

[Bobby Finger]

We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave with nightmarish secrets from Tenderfoot.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

TV and I Heart podcasts. This is La Monstre season two, the Butcher of Moss. Available now Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. May 24, 1990.

[Bobby Finger]

A pipe bomb explodes in the front seat of environmental activist Judy Berry's car.

[Sarah Marshall]

I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me with.

[Bobby Finger]

Just a force more powerful and terrible than anything that I could describe.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

In season two of Rip Current, we.

[Bobby Finger]

Ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why she received death threats before the bombing. She received more stress after the bombing. The men and women who were hurt had planned to lead a summer of militant protest against logging practices in Northern California. They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. The timber industry, I mean, it was the number one industry in the area. But more than it was the culture, it was the way of life. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement.

[AM PM Ad Voice]

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are.

[Bobby Finger]

Available now listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History. We're going back to the spring of 1988, to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years.

[Bobby Finger]

That's how long Elizabeth Sinnett's family waited for. For justice to occur. 35 long years.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse.

[Bobby Finger]

He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family and apologize. Turn to the left. Tell my family I love him.

[Sarah Marshall]

So he would have this little practice to the right.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm Sorry. To the left. I love you.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

From Revisionist History, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Finger]

Now, I will say this in interviews. Cause Bo Gritz, as with other parts of his life, gives two different stories. The one that he gives at the time and the one that he gives years later when people ask years later, he will be like, oh. I was horrified the instant I heard that David Duke was the presidential candidate. Within 48 hours, I had resigned. I would absolutely never have worked with such a racist at the time. In news articles written immediately afterwards, Beau said he was okay with working with Duke because he met with David Duke and made him promise a solemn swear promise not to be a racist in the campaign. Not to have a racist campaign. And David Duke said. Said it wasn't going to be a racist campaign. What more can you ask?

[Cody Johnston]

You know, he said he wasn't going to do it seems.

[Bobby Finger]

Sounds fine to me, man. By his word, he promised a Klansman's promise. Okay, well, you know. All right.

[Sarah Marshall]

Jesus Christ, Robert.

[Bobby Finger]

So the good news is that after they lost, Beau complained to Carl.

[Cody Johnston]

You could stop that sentence right there. The good news is.

[Bobby Finger]

The good news is that they lost.

[Cody Johnston]

They lost for now.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Born in. Oh, right. Let's not think too much about what's happening on Alliance. Yeah, yeah. So the good news is that Beau complained after they lost to Willis Carteau that David Duke did quote more harm to the populist party than Hitler would have.

[Cody Johnston]

Now, okay, this.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm giving you a second. This kind of insinuates to me that Bo would have been okay with running as the VP for Hitler.

[Sarah Marshall]

No, literally.

[Bobby Finger]

Right.

[Sarah Marshall]

That's exactly what he's saying.

[Bobby Finger]

A little bit.

[Cody Johnston]

At first, I was like, okay, let him cook. Let me, like, what are you trying to say here? Like, help me understand and get. Because my first thought was, yeah, like, so you the cool.

[Bobby Finger]

You might have run with Hitler if he promised not to run a racist campaign.

[Cody Johnston]

As long as Hitler don't do a.

[Bobby Finger]

Racist campaign, Hitler's on his best behavior. We can go to Olive Garden. No, sorry, I don't know.

[Cody Johnston]

Or Golden Corral.

[Sarah Marshall]

Are you hungry or something?

[Cody Johnston]

What's happening?

[Bobby Finger]

I just think Hitler in Olive Garden is a funny image, Sophie. Cause when you're there, you're family.

[Cody Johnston]

So, bro, you are on a roll today.

[Sarah Marshall]

Dude, you think he was a super salad guy? I think salad.

[Bobby Finger]

He was a salad guy.

[Cody Johnston]

Canonically, he's salad and unlimited Bread.

[Bobby Finger]

Killing him. Breadsticks.

[Cody Johnston]

That man is not ordering a plate.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm actually in the audience is a very dear friend of mine who we decided at one point, I'm not really sure why, to come in at Olive Garden one day on a Tuesday, the very minute they opened at 9 or 10 in the morning. Now, we were both wearing skirts that we'd sewn each other, and we both had T shirts that had our favorite conspiracy theory on them. I do forget what mine was, but Hidge said, just said, Michael Jackson was murdered written on the front of a white T shirt and Sharpie. And we proceeded to sit down. Now, Oliver, who are you, bro? The reason why we showed up is Olive Garden sells three liter bottles of wine. So we ordered two of them, and then we. Nothing but six liters of wine and breadsticks. And the experiment, because we also brought with us a big roll of butcher paper, and we started outlining the conspiracies that we, like, believed ruled the world. So we were drawing, like, a big flowchart, talking about the Freemasons and all of these different conspiracies. And the goal was, when will they stop serving us breadsticks? Yeah. And eventually it did get to the point where we got half a breadstick on a plate, and I was like, yeah, it's probably time to bounce.

[Cody Johnston]

Hey, let me ask y' all this. Let me ask y' all this. As fans of this show, how many times have you thought to yourself, how has this man survived? Like, how are you still alive? I be thinking that like. Like, how are you still alive, fam? Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

I will say, as soon as we got back to my house, my friend who was in the audience vomited so much on the floor, I almost made it to the toilet. So I'm just bragging a little bit. Pretty close. Not at all. Not at all. Like, literally, like three and a half feet further. Anyway, back to the story. So the good news is. Well, not the good news. He runs again in 1992, this time as the presidential candidate for the populist Party. And he does twice as well as David Duke, winning 0.1% of the national popular vote to Duke's.05. So, you know, not bad. That same year, 92, Beau played what would be arguably his one positive role in US political culture, which is when he kind of ended the Ruby Ridge standoff. So if you're vaguely familiar, there's this guy, Randy Weaver, and his friends in the Aryan Nations. He gets paid by a dude who turns out to be an ATF agent to saw off some shotguns. And then they raid his house and an agent is shot dead by. I forget which member of his group killed the agent, but an ATF agent's killed and the ATF kills his young son, who's a child, and his wife, right? And a big. This is called Ruby Ridge. Huge standoff. This is like a seminal moment in the fucking militia movement. And it's a big deal. And because Greitz is a really famous figure in the militia movement, he gets like the. He basically. I think he reaches out directly to the feds, actually. But anyway, he winds up flown in and talks to Randy Weaver and talks Weaver down. And the siege ends without further loss of life. This is a legitimate thing that Beau did. And it's good, right? It's good that more people. Because Bo had. Or Randy had his kid. Like, I'm not. I don't care that much about Randy, but he had another kid, right? Like, you don't want them to die. And that's good. This is the only good thing that Beau does. But he did do that. Now, because Randy Weaver had some close ties to the Aryan nations and because Greitz's 1992 campaign was seen as a watershed moment for white supremacists in the U.S. beau was accused of himself being a racist. Can you believe it? Now, Idaho State University professor James Aho told the splc, the Southern Poverty Law center, that as far as he could see, Greitz wasn't, quote, an out and out racist. And Greitz himself repeatedly emphasized that he had two Asian American children, so he couldn't be racist. Now.

[Cody Johnston]

Course he did. He was in them huts.

[Bobby Finger]

He was in that hut.

[Cody Johnston]

He was in them huts.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

You can't be racist. You in them huts. Hell are we talking about, man?

[Bobby Finger]

Now, I think it's accurate to say that Beau's primary motivation wasn't white supremacy. But it's kind of weird to say that he wasn't an out and out racist, given some comments he made about people of the Jewish faith, per the SPLC earlier this year. This is 2005, I think. In a lengthy diatribe falsely alleging Jewish control of the media and financial institutions. Institutions, he wrote, why is there such an intense effort toward Jewish control? I don't think it is right for such a small interest, special interest group to control our nation. Wait a minute.

[Cody Johnston]

2005?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

Old is this, man.

[Bobby Finger]

He's still alive. God. Yeah, I know. It's a bummer.

[Cody Johnston]

Dang it, man.

[Bobby Finger]

Elsewhere he wrote, do you see the sign, the scent, the stain and mark of the beast on America today. Are you willing to submit and join this seed line of Satan? Look to those who are openly antichrist. Who in the world is promoting abortion, pornography, pedophilia, godless laws, adultery, New age international banking, entertainment industry and world publishing. Wherever you find a perversion of God's laws, you will find the worshippers of BAAL with their roots still in Babylonian mysticism. What the.

[Cody Johnston]

What are you talking. Sing it out.

[Bobby Finger]

He's not an out and out race racist.

[Cody Johnston]

This man named it just. Even his racism being just broken. This man naming all the enemies right of the Israelites. You know what I'm saying?

[Bobby Finger]

I guess.

[Cody Johnston]

Worship. Yeah, I'm, I'm. Look, look, I grew up in church, y'.

[Bobby Finger]

All. Well, he's, he is arguing that that's Judaism is worshiping ball.

[Cody Johnston]

That's the, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm like breast. Nevermind.

[Bobby Finger]

We all need to argue with Bo Gr on theology. But the point of it is that like, I mean to be fair, in rural Idaho that is kind of middle of the road racism. Right? Like he's not an extremist for rural Idaho.

[Cody Johnston]

He's a free trial version.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. In January of 1993, after losing his second presidential election, Beau pivoted to a new grift. He started Spike S P I K E. It's a.

[Sarah Marshall]

Stop letting him name things.

[Bobby Finger]

I know, he's so annoying. Spike is a. Was a training program that stood for specially prepared individuals for key events.

[Sarah Marshall]

That means nothing, bro.

[Cody Johnston]

I swear, I was, I was so worried you was about to say like Spike TV.

[Bobby Finger]

No. Yeah, he founded Spike TV.

[Cody Johnston]

I was like, he founded Spike TV. I was like yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

So the idea was he was bringing in experts to teach classes that would turn regular. You could like order VHS tapes off the Internet and it will turn you into a special forces operator if you watch enough of them. Right. That's all that's standing in between you and being a Navy SEAL is watching enough VHS tapes. That's actually true. Buy the VHS tape cassette series I've got going on. I don't know what to call it. I didn't think of an acronym. Sorry. Anyway, Spike winds up ultimately building a video library of about 100 hours of content that they would ship to anyone willing to pay. Now, by the early 90s, Bo had also relocated to the Pacific Northwest where we all call home.

[Sarah Marshall]

Uh huh.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Cause this is coincidentally right around the same time as the so called Northwest imperative really gets going this is the idea of moving white people en masse to this part of the country in order to create a new white homeland. Now it starts to really pick up. It doesn't start at this, but it starts to really pick up steam in the 90s. Right. And coincidentally, this is also when Beau launches a new business venture.

[Sarah Marshall]

What does he call it?

[Bobby Finger]

I'm telling you, he sells parcels of land in an intentional community from members of the militia movement called Almost Heaven.

[Sarah Marshall]

Stop letting him name things.

[Bobby Finger]

Billed as a constitutional covenant community, Almost Heaven was a way to take the underlying ideology of the the Northwest imperative and extend it beyond stock Nazism to something palatable for a wider but still far right audience. He claimed to have picked the location by studying maps of nuclear fallout and military bases to determine the safest place in America. Wow. I think it's where the land was cheapest. He announced the start of this new venture by crashing a Kamia town hall meeting in 1994 and declared declaring the public school system a cesspool and accusing the local government of being run by. And then he uses a slur for gay people. It starts with f. Local resident and activist Larry Nims later claimed Greitz came here and made a lot of noise. He told people that if they didn't like him, then get out of Dodge. And I'm thinking, who is he to tell people around here to get out of Dodge? He didn't even live in Dodge yet. And Nims, my heart goes out. Nims is like a progressive activist in rural Idaho in the early 90s who's like, we'll talk about, like, Beau was the one who brought a lot of guys with guns out here, right? Like, this has not. Not been a problem before him, but he really makes, like, the current state of affairs is seriously influenced by Griffin. Yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

I said, I'm just like, learning, like, bummer.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. The Aryan nations had been out in Hayden Lake previously, so it's not entirely Undergrites. But he does play a separate significant role in this because of how famous he is. Right.

[Cody Johnston]

I still just wonder. And it's like, I. This. This sounds like a joke, but I'm like, dead serious. I'm like, man, what. What do they eat? I'm like, nazi.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, no, guys.

[Cody Johnston]

Well, like, if you're gonna make an almost seven, because I'm like, you can.

[Bobby Finger]

Think so go to the delivery store.

[Cody Johnston]

So, yeah, so I used to live in Portland. I lived in Portland a while back. You know what I'm saying? But, like, I mean, this is like the. The double Dragon joint with the, like the. This Pok Pock. Like, I'm like, there's so many good places to eat here. I'm like, you don't want that. Like, no, no.

[Bobby Finger]

He's living in the woods, eating dried food that he bought off of. What's his name? Baker, the weirdo. Yeah.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Jim Baker.

[Bobby Finger]

Jim Baker. Thank you very much. I recently watched a movie, by the way way about him that came out recently with Andrew Garfield. Good.

[Cody Johnston]

Why y' all haven't got no like Old Bay, like just right season.

[Bobby Finger]

That's why. It's Almost Heaven.

[Cody Johnston]

It's almost.

[Bobby Finger]

It's almost heaven. They forgot the seasoning.

[Cody Johnston]

It's low sodium heaven.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

So.

[Bobby Finger]

Wow. Almost Heaven worked for a little while. Unfortunately, Bo and his business partner made the bad decision to buy their land as a common law trust. And I don't know a lot about this, but the way in which they did this made it very difficult for their customers to get titles. Basically impossible. They couldn't get titles to their property in their names and they couldn't get property insurance in their own names, which is a problem. A flurry of lawsuits followed by people who thought that they had been conned. Pretty true. Accurately. And problems escalated as contractors started suing Greitz and his business partner for failing to pay for road construction and other infrastructure work. They kind of took a leaf out of the Trump book, right? Yeah. The slow collapse of Almost Heaven was escalated both by incompetence like this and the fact that more than anything, Beau wanted to make money, not fund a right wing revolution. And a lot of his critics on the right are like, beau, aren't you making the army that's going to like liberate us? No. Oh. So the other problem is that Beau keeps taking calls throughout the late 90s from the FBI to try and talk down militia groups like the Montana franchise. Freeman. Which ultimately alienated his third wife, Claudia, a former karate instructor.

[Cody Johnston]

Did I miss the second wife?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, that was the. That was the. The lady he met. The sex worker that he met, shockingly, didn't last.

[Cody Johnston]

Yeah. Who knew?

[Bobby Finger]

I. Marriages that start in Vietnam. Yeah.

[Cody Johnston]

Stay in Vietnam. That's a good one.

[Bobby Finger]

So like all those POWs, by the end of 1998.

[Sarah Marshall]

That was good. That was very good.

[Bobby Finger]

By the end of 1998, Beau's business partner had stolen nearly all of the money made by Almost Heaven and Claudia left him after 24 years of marriage.

[Sarah Marshall]

Claudia did 24 years?

[Cody Johnston]

She did 24.

[Bobby Finger]

She's been there a while, girl.

[Cody Johnston]

She stuck it out.

[Bobby Finger]

Bo attempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest in December of 1998, but he survived and is still alive today. God, I don't have a happy ending here. He did shoot himself again, for whatever reason. A through line in this guy's story is people shooting themselves in weird ways. The chest. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to backseat kill Bo Grights to bogue rights, but however. However.

[Cody Johnston]

Yes.

[Bobby Finger]

All right, that concludes the behind the Bastards episodes. Cheese.

[Sarah Marshall]

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube.com behindthebastards. Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and, well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure, you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell, oatmeal. So long, you strange soggy.

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[Josh Zeman]

A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the Son of Sam. Available now Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionist History. We're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control and he.

[Bobby Finger]

Said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years.

[Cody Johnston]

That's probably not long enough.

[Bobby Finger]

I didn't kill him.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

From revisionist history, this is the Alabama Murders. Listen to revisionist history, the Alabama murders on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sarah Marshall]

This is an iHeart podcast.