Behind the Bastards: Part Two - Dire Wolves, Dr. George Church & The De-Extinction Grift

Podcast Information:

• Title: Behind the Bastards
• Host/Author: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Part Two: Dire Wolves, Dr. George Church & The De-Extinction Grift
• Release Date: June 5, 2025

Introduction

In the second installment of Behind the Bastards, hosts Langston Kerman and Sophie delve deep into the controversial world of de-extinction science, centering their discussion around Dr. George Church—a renowned geneticist—and his ambitious, yet ethically questionable projects. This episode uncovers the tangled web of scientific ambition, ethical lapses, and dubious associations that paint a complex picture of modern genetic engineering.

George Church and His De-Extinction Ambitions

The episode opens with Langston Kerman introducing Dr. George Church as a key figure in the de-extinction movement. Church's work, particularly his push to revive extinct species like Neanderthals and dire wolves, forms the crux of the discussion.

• Quote: "That's like evil. It leads you to do evil." (10:16)

Church's early interest in de-extinction began around 2014-2015, coinciding with his renewed association with the late Jeffrey Epstein. Kerman suggests that Church's real motivation might not be the ethical revival of extinct species but rather the pursuit of lucrative ventures in genetic engineering.

Ethical Concerns and Eugenics

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the ethical implications of Church's work. Kerman draws parallels between Church's projects and historical instances of eugenics, highlighting the potential dangers of genetic manipulation devoid of ethical considerations.

• Quote: "You're literally doing the Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park thing. Like, you're literally. Your scientists are so busy asking what they can do, they're not asking, should we. Is this fucked up?" (10:49)

The hosts critique Church's stance on determining desirability based on societal consensus, arguing that it mirrors the flawed ideologies that fueled past eugenic movements.

Controversial Associations and Companies

The episode exposes Church's affiliations with several controversial entities:

1. Colossal Bioscience: Co-founded by Ben Lamb, Colossal claims to be at the forefront of de-extinction technology. However, former employees describe it as a company driven more by hype than genuine scientific progress.

   • Quote: "They have not. This is based on everyone getting hyped up about the direwolves. There is so much more sketchy shit here." (90:37)

2. Digidate: A genetic dating service aiming to match individuals based on DNA compatibility to prevent inherited diseases. Critics argue that this approach borders on eugenics by attempting to control human reproduction through genetic screening.

   • Quote: "That's us Genics." (39:59)

3. Bioviva: A biotech startup offering anti-aging therapies. The company has faced scrutiny for ethical concerns, especially regarding experimental gene therapies that may pose significant health risks, such as increasing cancer risks.

   • Quote: "I'm not sure that it's time for that just yet." (63:49)

Jeffrey Epstein’s Influence and Ethical Lapses

Church's renewed association with Jeffrey Epstein raises alarms about the potential misuse of genetic technology. Kerman insinuates that Epstein's influence might have steered Church's ethical compass towards morally questionable projects.

• Quote: "Nobody knows, right? Some people are pretty sure they know. I don't know." (01:01)

De-Extinction Projects: Dire Wolves and Beyond

Colossal's claim to have successfully de-extincted dire wolves is heavily scrutinized. Experts argue that the genetic modifications made are superficial and do not constitute true de-extinction.

• Quote: "The dire wolf genome likely differs from that of the gray wolf in millions or tens of millions of ways. Editing 14 genes is interesting, but it's not a reconstruction or de-extinction. It's not even close." (87:55)

Kerman points out the impracticality and ethical issues surrounding the introduction of genetically modified species into the wild, emphasizing the lack of transparency and scientific rigor in Colossal's claims.

Interaction with Political Figures and Public Relations

The episode also touches upon Colossal’s interactions with political figures, notably the Trump administration. Doug Burgum, then head of the Department of the Interior, publicly supported Colossal's de-extinction claims, further blurring the lines between science and political agendas.

• Quote: "We're gonna fuck up the elephants in a new kind of way. Isn't that exciting?" (78:40)

This alliance raises concerns about the ethical oversight of genetic engineering projects and their potential exploitation for political or economic gains.

Conclusion and Implications

Behind the Bastards paints a troubling picture of the intersection between cutting-edge genetic science and ethical quandaries. Dr. George Church's ventures into de-extinction and genetic engineering, while scientifically groundbreaking, are marred by ethical oversights, questionable associations, and a penchant for hype over substance. The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the potential dangers of unchecked scientific ambition and the importance of robust ethical frameworks in the realm of genetic engineering.

• Final Quote: "This show is always a lot of fun and really sad." (93:32)

Key Takeaways:

• Ethical Implications: The pursuit of de-extinction and genetic engineering must be balanced with ethical considerations to prevent misuse.
• Transparency in Science: Companies like Colossal Bioscience need to maintain transparency to build credible scientific endeavors.
• Influence of Associations: Associations with controversial figures like Jeffrey Epstein can tarnish scientific reputations and raise ethical concerns.
• Eugenics Concerns: Genetic technologies must avoid echoing the flawed ideologies of historical eugenics movements.

Timestamp Reference:

• [01:01] Jeffrey Epstein discussion begins
• [10:16] Ethical concerns raised
• [39:59] Digidate critique
• [63:49] Bioviva and anti-aging therapies
• [78:40] Interaction with political figures
• [87:55] Dire wolves de-extinction scrutiny
• [93:32] Episode conclusion

Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript and represents the discussions and viewpoints expressed within the podcast episode.