Part Two: How Eliza Fraser Survived a Shipwreck and Sparked a Genocide - Behind the Bastards

Summary4 min read

Behind the Bastards: Part Two - How Eliza Fraser Survived a Shipwreck and Sparked a Genocide

Released on June 12, 2025 by Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

Introduction

In this gripping second installment of "Behind the Bastards," the hosts delve deep into the tumultuous story of Eliza Fraser, a woman whose survival of a shipwreck and subsequent interactions with indigenous peoples had far-reaching and tragic consequences. The episode meticulously unpacks how Fraser's narrative contributed to the justification of genocidal actions against Aboriginal populations in Australia.

The Shipwreck and Initial Contact

The episode begins with a recounting of the 1799 shipwreck of the Norfolk near what was then known as Ghari Island (now Fraser Island). Captain Matthew Flinders led a party ashore in search of resources, only to encounter hostility from the Nagulungbara tribe.

Host 2 [06:22]: "In August of 1799, an English boat called the Norfolk put ashore on the Great Sandy Island."
Host 3 [07:10]: "Flinders and his crew were part of, like, the shoot first and never ask questions ever, like, school of being a colonizer who's drunkenly landed on an island."

The hosts highlight the immediate violence initiated by the Europeans, who fired upon the indigenous tribe without provocation, as recorded both in official logs and in the tribe's oral traditions.

Host 3 [08:03]: "They fired twice. So you have both this song and, like, documentation from the sailors that they shot twice."

This dual account underscores the reliability of indigenous oral histories, challenging the notion that such traditions are mere myths.

Eliza Fraser’s Captivity

Eliza Fraser, along with other survivors, spent several months living with the Bachola tribe. The hosts explore differing accounts of her treatment:

Host 2 [04:07]: "Eliza Fraser has kind of gotten a job, which is trying not to die while living as part of a civilization that survives off the land."
Host 2 [14:50]: "She was constantly beaten when incapable of carrying the heavy loads they put upon me."

Contrastingly, some accounts, such as those from Robert Darge, portray the indigenous people as harsh but not inherently cruel, suggesting a complex dynamic influenced by the survivors' poor survival skills.

Host 2 [13:59]: "Robert Darge... described the locals as treating them very hard and stated, 'We had to work severely to get fish and kangaroos,' but it's also clear he understood that this hardness was a product of the difficulty of survival on the island and added, 'I cannot call them a cruel people.'"

Fabrication and Exaggeration of Events

The hosts critically examine Eliza Fraser’s later accounts, which became increasingly sensationalized to garner sympathy and financial support. Initially, her story was one of survival, but over time, it morphed into a narrative filled with atrocities.

Host 2 [30:12]: "Eliza gives her first version of events when she's still in Moreton Bay in September of 1836. ...this version of events was, 'gradually embroidered with new horrors in Sydney and London for the titillation of eager audiences and anticipation of financial recompense.'"

Her second husband, John Green, is implicated in possibly shaping these embellished stories to maximize public interest and donations.

Host 3 [31:03]: "Because she is raising donations to help her for this, she has to make people feel sorry."

Impact on Indigenous Populations and Colonial Policies

Fraser’s exaggerated tales fueled negative perceptions of Aboriginal peoples, justifying violent reprisals and genocidal campaigns against them. The hosts discuss how these narratives were perpetuated through various media, including children's books and stage productions, entrenching racist ideologies.

Host 2 [55:18]: "One of Eliza Fraser's legacies was that there would be many massacres of the very people who had helped her."
Host 3 [57:09]: "This force of native police... commenced an assault on August 4, 1850... killing whoever they can."

The episode underscores the role of media in perpetuating fear and hatred, leading to policies that violently displaced Aboriginal communities.

Modern Reflections and Legacy

The hosts reflect on the enduring legacy of Eliza Fraser's story, highlighting how it influenced white Australian and European attitudes towards indigenous populations and contributed to systemic racism and violence.

Host 2 [67:01]: "Stories like Eliza's provided fuel for British fear of cohabitation with Native peoples. Once these anxieties found expression and form in narratives such as Eliza's, they justified the mechanisms for surveillance of Aboriginal people through policing practices, legal control, and government policy."

The episode concludes by acknowledging the slow progress towards rectifying these historical injustices, noting recent efforts to reclaim indigenous heritage, such as the renaming of Fraser Island back to Ghari Island in 2023.

Notable Quotes

Host 2 [03:04]: "Eliza spent about three months with the Bachola and by the time she was rescued by her fellow Europeans, she'd been moved to the mainland."
Host 3 [09:15]: "It's not that, like, you shouldn't view these oral stories as mythology. It's an attempt at recording history."
Host 2 [44:35]: "Misogyny is rooted in stories by other survivors that called Eliza a liar and a she Captain."
Fiona Foley [66:07]: (Description of the sculpture) "They're strung up on the branch... a pretty deep shadow cast looking over them."

Conclusion

"Behind the Bastards" meticulously unravels how Eliza Fraser's survival story, laden with fabrications, served as a catalyst for justifying genocidal actions against Aboriginal peoples in Australia. The episode serves as a stark reminder of how narratives can be manipulated to perpetuate systemic violence and racism, leaving a lasting scar on history.

Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and are used to reference specific points discussed by the hosts.

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Transcript797 lines

[00:02]
Host 1
Call zone media.
[00:05]
Host 2
Oh, hootly do. It's behind the Bastards. A podcast where I finally learned how to open my podcast.
[00:12]
Host 3
I think we figured it out. I think we got it locked down.
[00:14]
Host 4
Oh, hoodly doo is a keeper.
[00:16]
Host 2
That's a keeper. That's a keeper.
[00:18]
Host 4
I think yesterday's was hub.
[00:26]
Host 3
That one was a fuck up.
[00:27]
Host 2
Was a disaster. Calamity.
[00:30]
Host 4
I just think it would be hard to remember to how to do it again.
[00:33]
Host 1
You're doing. You're doing great.
[00:35]
Host 2
Yeah, because I have to get every syllable right, obviously. Oh, hoodly do. Yeah, yeah, hoodly do.
[00:41]
Host 3
Much easier. Easy to remember.
[00:43]
Host 2
I can see it on T shirts.
[00:44]
Host 3
People are going to be getting tattoos of this in like a month.
[00:47]
Host 4
Sounds like something you would say if like a fancy person corrects you.
[00:54]
Host 3
Yeah.
[00:57]
Host 2
This is an iHeart podcast.
[01:01]
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[02:01]
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Host 3
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[03:05]
Host 3
Now. Speaking of things that are gonna be on T shirts in a month, I don't know how that actually leads us into part two. When we ended part one, Eliza Frazier and her husband.
[03:16]
Host 1
Where are we going there?
[03:18]
Host 3
I have no. I don't know, Sophie. I just.
[03:20]
Host 2
I just trim sometimes when I'm speaking.
[03:23]
Host 3
And it just usually doesn't work very well. We mostly edit in the ones where.
[03:28]
Host 2
It did, but that one was a failure.
[03:30]
Host 3
You know, I can admit that Jamie.
[03:31]
Host 1
Did send me that. Send me that picture of the two of us when we did that one live show, when we wore each other's shirts with each other's faces on it and didn't acknowledge it.
[03:40]
Host 2
Yeah, that was good.
[03:41]
Host 3
That was a good move. But that's a visual joke.
[03:44]
Host 2
I try not to do too many of those. Because most people listen to the podcast.
[03:47]
Advertiser 4
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[03:48]
Host 4
Well, hoodly doo, look who's a professional podcaster. All of a sudd.
[03:53]
Host 3
Says the guy who hired me to do podcasts.
[03:55]
Advertiser 2
The guy who hired us.
[03:57]
Host 4
All right, pal. All right.
[04:00]
Host 3
Now, speaking of getting hired, Eliza Fraser has kind of gotten a job, which.
[04:05]
Host 2
Is trying not to die while living.
[04:07]
Host 3
As part of a civilization that survives off the land. A thing that she doesn't know how to do, and it's not going well.
[04:14]
Host 4
She doesn't understand and they don't understand her.
[04:17]
Host 3
Right. That no one speaks each other's language.
[04:20]
Host 4
Cribbendorf's tribe.
[04:21]
Host 3
Right, Right. It's not going great.
[04:25]
Host 2
So we should probably peel back a.
[04:26]
Host 3
Bit more to talk about the Bacholas.
[04:27]
Host 2
Contacts with European civilization outside of Captain Cook and the odd Aussie prison escapee. Right.
[04:34]
Host 3
We talked about that last time, their first contact. The fact that these prisoners have been, like, coming in, like, individually for a while and getting adopted. Too often, when we discuss kind of.
[04:44]
Host 2
The ethnographies of indigenous people being colonized, we sort of drop, like, here's what.
[04:48]
Host 3
They believed about the world pre contact, and then we kind of leave it at that.
[04:52]
Host 2
But again, these are not static civilizations.
[04:54]
Host 3
Right? No more than, you know, the Europeans themselves were.
[04:58]
Host 2
And they adapted their beliefs many times in light of new knowledge about how the world worked. As I noted in the last episodes, the natives of what was at that point known to the Europeans as Indian.
[05:08]
Host 3
Head island and was called Ghari by the people then and now.
[05:14]
Host 2
They interpreted their first sights of white people to be spirits returning from the dead.
[05:18]
Host 3
But whiteness symbolized death in every way.
[05:22]
Host 2
Right. And so they didn't just respond to white people as if they were returning deceased relatives. Sometimes that would happen.
[05:27]
Host 3
You'd meet someone and, like, a member.
[05:29]
Host 2
Of the tribe would get good vibes from them.
[05:31]
Host 3
Basically. It would be like, oh, you know what? I think that's like my dad or.
[05:34]
Host 2
Whatever, you know, my kid or something like that who died recently.
[05:37]
Host 3
But that is not the only way they reacted.
[05:40]
Host 2
Death was always involved in their reaction.
[05:41]
Host 3
But it wasn't always like, oh, this.
[05:43]
Host 2
Must be a member of the tribe returned.
[05:44]
Host 3
As Dr. Peter Lauer wrote, their whiteness.
[05:47]
Host 2
Was symbolic of death, mourning and apprehension.
[05:50]
Host 3
And so sometimes people were like, oh.
[05:52]
Host 2
No, it's a bad omen that there's white people here. Right? Because that means, like, the dead or like, it's bad.
[05:56]
Host 3
This is. This is a dark thing that's happened.
[05:59]
Host 4
That is always my interpretation, and it's why I'm always so nervous.
[06:03]
Host 3
Right.
[06:03]
Host 4
In America. Yeah.
[06:04]
Host 3
Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's really terrible place for you to live.
[06:07]
Host 4
Like, ooh, I feel like the vibes are off everywhere.
[06:10]
Host 3
Looking in the mirror. Oh, no. Oh, dear God, it's me.
[06:15]
Host 2
In August of 17. I mean, looking in the mirror does make you think of your own mortality.
[06:19]
Host 3
Sometimes, but I don't like it. In August of 1799, which is about.
[06:23]
Host 2
30 years after Captain Cook's voyage, an English boat called the Norfolk put ashore on the Great Sandy Island. Captain Matthew Flinders went ashore with a party of men to find water and food near a place called Watumba Creek. As was usually the case, Flinders was.
[06:37]
Host 3
Mixed up and believed he'd found Australia and the. But I was just a promontory that's constantly. They have no idea where they are, these people. The maps are shit. They're bad at reading them. They're all drunk now.
[06:49]
Host 2
They're not just drunk, they're heavily armed.
[06:51]
Host 3
And while it's a lot of fun.
[06:53]
Host 2
To be heavily armed and drunk, it's also very dangerous for the people around you. And Flinders and his crew were part.
[06:59]
Host 3
Of, like, the shoot first and never ask questions ever, like, school of being a colonizer who's drunkenly landed on an island. And so when like, a group of.
[07:10]
Host 2
Nagulungbara tribes people who's like, I think they. The people who live in the south.
[07:14]
Host 3
Of Ghari island, they, like, come up.
[07:16]
Host 2
To see these new people have landed.
[07:18]
Host 3
And they do what normally happens. Like, okay, well, let's go look at this. And Flinders and his crew just start shooting.
[07:25]
Host 2
Like, they just start blasting immediately, right?
[07:29]
Host 3
They, like Fire a cannon at the.
[07:31]
Host 2
Tribe for no apparent reason and the tribe runs away, which is a reasonable thing to do when someone shoots at you.
[07:37]
Host 3
Now, this, we don't know if this was anyone on the island's first experience.
[07:41]
Host 2
With gunfire, but it's the first recorded one we have. And we have a record of this from one of their songs, which, roughly translated, states that one of the white men two times held up something and made loud noise and smoke.
[07:54]
Host 3
Kong. Kong. I think that's how they onomatopoeia, the.
[07:57]
Host 2
Sound of gunfire, which is, you know, not bad.
[08:00]
Host 3
Perfectly. Yeah. So one thing that's so interesting to.
[08:03]
Host 2
Me about this story is that it's a really good example, again, of how much accurate historical information can be passed.
[08:08]
Host 3
Down through the centuries in an oral tradition like this, because the captain's men also reported firing twice. So you have both this song and, like, documentation from the sailors that they shot twice.
[08:21]
Host 4
I find coming down across history totally unrelated from one another. That's wild.
[08:26]
Host 3
It's so interesting. Yeah. Because usually when you're like, well, these.
[08:29]
Host 2
People have an oral tradition of storytelling.
[08:31]
Host 3
It'S discussed as, like, storytelling as, like, myth. But, like, no, this is. No, this is not really necessarily less accurate than, like, a fucking newspaper in.
[08:38]
Host 2
London at the time.
[08:39]
Host 3
Right.
[08:39]
Host 2
Which is also a lot of times wrong or filled with lies. Right.
[08:42]
Host 3
Like, and I'm not saying the songs are all like, the songs. Clearly, this is people recording their history. So people always have an agenda when recording their history. But it's also a lot of very.
[08:54]
Host 2
Very accurate grain gets through in the history as a result of these songs, which I think is really interesting.
[09:01]
Host 4
I mean, we made up Paul Revere just because his name rhymed. Song is not always our best way of recording things. So it's kind of impressive that they're getting the right number of shots down through time.
[09:15]
Host 2
It's often very good.
[09:17]
Host 3
And so that's all I'm saying. It's not that, like, you shouldn't view, you know, these oral, like, stories that the people on Ghari are shelley. It's, like, 100% accurate history all the time.
[09:28]
Host 2
But you shouldn't view it as just, like, mythology.
[09:31]
Host 3
Right.
[09:31]
Host 2
Either. Right. This is an attempt at recording history.
[09:34]
Host 3
And, like, all attempts, like Herodotus. It's not perfect, but you shouldn't see it as less accurate than Herodotus.
[09:40]
Host 2
Right. And the term for this mix of singing and dancing and storytelling to preserve history among the people of Ghari island is called a corroboree. That's the term I found for it.
[09:53]
Host 3
So yeah.
[09:54]
Host 2
After one of Flinders men fired upon.
[09:56]
Host 3
The Ngulungbarra, Peter Lauer writes, one of.
[09:59]
Host 2
Their number, Wumingela, who hid in the nearby bushes, watched the whites collecting water and killing some wild fowl with their terrible weapons before returning to the ship. Their heads are like dingoes tails. The corroboree continued in possible reference to the sailors plated hair or the kerchiefs they wore as head covering, like the ceremonial dingo tail headbands of the adult males of the tribe. The paddles are like wood shaped by the fire. Their ongoing attempt by the aboriginal people to relate the inexplicable to what could be culturally comprehended is thus most apparent in these careful observations. And again like, yeah, you get like these recordings of how they looked and they're trying to kind of comparing their.
[10:34]
Host 3
Their appearance to like their own appearance, right? Like it's this, this really the, the amount of like fidelity you get in.
[10:43]
Host 2
This attempt of one culture to comprehend another. In some ways, in a lot of ways much better than the European accounts of the same thing.
[10:50]
Host 3
Interesting.
[10:51]
Host 4
Yeah. The European account being like they're basically animals and we tried to like shoot at them. They ran away like animals.
[10:58]
Host 3
The nagualambara are trying to kind of.
[11:01]
Host 2
Do their own anthropology. They're trying to get in these people's.
[11:03]
Host 3
Heads to understand like why are you doing what you're doing? What are you.
[11:06]
Host 2
Right. Which yeah, it's just really interesting to me. So Flinders returned to the island in 1802, which is three years later with a party of scientists to collect plants. And an aboriginal person from the mainland.
[11:20]
Host 3
Named Bangaree like was brought with them. So they take this, this indigenous person from like the mainland with them because.
[11:28]
Host 2
He can probably talk to these guys and they, they manage to make some.
[11:31]
Host 3
Sort of friendly contact with Nagualangbara who.
[11:35]
Host 2
Are understandably nervous because the last time.
[11:37]
Host 3
They saw this guy he shot at them and they could see guns like in the hands of men on the.
[11:42]
Host 2
Island and know what they mean.
[11:43]
Host 3
Now Flinders tried to bribe them with.
[11:45]
Host 2
An offering of blubber from porpoises. And he's like, well this is a valuable gift by my standards.
[11:51]
Host 3
Cause like animal fat is useful for cooking.
[11:55]
Host 2
But the islanders didn't hunt or kill.
[11:57]
Host 3
Porpoise because they to them, porpoise drive.
[12:00]
Host 2
The mullet and whiting fish into their nets. So they see them as allies. Like we work with the porpoise.
[12:05]
Host 3
It's really fucked up for you to kill them. They're like our friends who help us get Food.
[12:09]
Host 2
Why did you murder one?
[12:10]
Host 4
They're like the fish. Shepherd.
[12:12]
Host 3
Yeah. You just killed him. Yeah, but he's useful.
[12:15]
Host 4
Hey, we killed your friend. Do you want some of this? You want some of the stuff in.
[12:19]
Host 3
Their body, man, why do these people like this stuff? Yeah. Anyway, so for the next about that's like kind of the last well documented contact between the Europeans and people on.
[12:31]
Host 2
The island for like 30 years or so, right.
[12:34]
Host 3
Even though there's some ships that semi regularly stop and obviously some convicts who find their way. This is like when Eliza Frazier lands.
[12:42]
Host 2
They're like last contacts, detailed contacts with Europeans that they had stories of where.
[12:46]
Host 3
Like, yeah, they tried to kill us and then they killed one of our friends. So it's kind of amazing that they treat her and her fellow shipmates so well, given that history.
[12:56]
Host 4
And it's kind of a less the white gods descended from the sea and more of a these assholes again type situation.
[13:04]
Host 3
And this is something I don't think.
[13:06]
Host 2
We have perfect texture on, but it.
[13:07]
Host 3
Does kind of seem like by the.
[13:08]
Host 2
Time they take her in, they have.
[13:10]
Host 3
Moved on to like, yeah, these probably aren't the dead returned. These are like some kind of assholes. This is some species of assholes.
[13:16]
Host 4
Very specific species of asshole.
[13:18]
Host 3
They're clearly willing to be like, but maybe not all of them suck. We'll try to stop these people from dying, right? So again we'll discuss further how Eliza.
[13:28]
Host 2
Described them as cruel and vicious. But it is also important to note.
[13:31]
Host 3
That other survivors of this shipwreck talk.
[13:34]
Host 2
Very differently about this people. Robert Darge is often considered the most dependable and reliable source of first hand accounts from the Stirling Castle survivors. And he described the locals as treating them very hard and stated, we had to work severely to get fish and kangaroos. But it's also clear he understood that this hardness was a product of the difficulty of survival on the island and added, I cannot call them a cruel people.
[13:59]
Host 3
So like, yeah, we had to work. It's difficult but like, they weren't mean. This is just the only way to live there.
[14:06]
Host 4
Fucking Darge.
[14:07]
Host 3
Darjee.
[14:08]
Host 4
Great last name. Darjee. Love it does sound like somebody I used to get shit faced with. Darjee.
[14:13]
Host 3
Aw, Darge.
[14:14]
Host 4
Yeah, Darjee. Darjee.
[14:17]
Host 3
You might compare Eliza's situation in this.
[14:19]
Host 2
To like a post apocalyptic story where some Instagram influencer flees the city and finds refuge in an off grid farm.
[14:26]
Host 3
And they're like taken care of, but like they have to learn how to work right. It is kind of like that sort of situation. This is Like a middle class person who's now having to learn how to.
[14:35]
Host 2
Live off the land.
[14:36]
Host 3
And she seems to have taken grave offense to this.
[14:40]
Host 2
Peter Lauer notes in his excellent history of the island, it was later reported that Mrs. Fraser was compelled to drag in wood for the fires and fetch water with as much cruelty as the djinns themselves.
[14:51]
Host 3
This is from, like, a piece of reporting at the time that's obviously.
[14:57]
Host 4
On.
[14:57]
Host 2
The slur spectrum, Right?
[14:59]
Host 4
The djinns themselves. Okay, yeah, that seems bad.
[15:03]
Host 3
Yeah.
[15:04]
Host 2
And as she herself claimed, she was constantly beaten when incapable of carrying the heavy loads they put upon me.
[15:11]
Host 3
Now, Lauer does go into some detail.
[15:13]
Host 2
About how hideously traumatic the crew's experiences before this had been. And when they came upon the Bachola, it was late winter, the most meager season of the year, which means that not only were Eliza and her fellows.
[15:23]
Host 3
Starving, but everyone kinda was.
[15:25]
Host 2
The shipwreck survivors had gone through a shipwreck, so they were ill.
[15:29]
Host 3
They're not good for a lot of.
[15:30]
Host 2
Work initially, which means they're being supported by the resources of people who are hungry themselves. When interviewed later, surviving islanders described the shipwreck survivors as being incapable of foraging, at which even small children were expert.
[15:43]
Host 3
So, like, even our little kids are better at living than you guys.
[15:47]
Host 2
Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
[15:49]
Host 3
And their incompetence was galling enough that.
[15:51]
Host 2
It may have provoked violence.
[15:52]
Host 4
This would have been so easy for them to.
[15:54]
Host 3
If they were to die, right?
[15:56]
Host 4
If they were as cruel as, like, any aspect of this universe asks us to believe. It would have been so easy for them to just kill them.
[16:04]
Host 3
Right.
[16:05]
Host 4
They are not useful to them in any way.
[16:07]
Host 3
No, they are not helping. They are not making anyone's life better right now. Robert. Darj also came to expect Darje.
[16:17]
Host 2
Yeah.
[16:17]
Host 3
And this is what I find Darj interesting because he's not like sugarcane. He's like, you know, I did face.
[16:24]
Host 2
Hostility from some of them.
[16:25]
Host 3
Some of them even, like, tried to.
[16:27]
Host 2
Do violence to me.
[16:28]
Host 3
And I think it was because the.
[16:30]
Host 2
Last time they'd met Europeans, they'd been shot.
[16:33]
Host 3
Quote, I believe that the reason some.
[16:35]
Host 2
Had such a hatred of me was that soldiers had wounded them.
[16:38]
Host 3
I observed a man who lost his leg had a desperate hatred of me and he tried to kill me three or four times. Yeah, man.
[16:45]
Host 4
The guy who had his leg blown off by the guy. Yeah. Did they. Were they armed at this point?
[16:51]
Host 3
Yes, they still.
[16:52]
Host 2
They have some sort of arms.
[16:54]
Host 3
It's unclear to me how well they're.
[16:55]
Host 2
Able to use them. There are Reports that they had guns, but obviously I don't know how much.
[17:00]
Host 3
Powder they got away with. I don't know how damaged the weapons.
[17:02]
Host 2
Were by the water and the shipwreck. So they may not have been super usable. Right, Got it.
[17:08]
Host 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[17:09]
Host 3
And it's interesting to me that, like, again, like, these shipwrecks also are not a monolith. You know, you've got Eliza, who's going.
[17:16]
Host 2
To tell these fucked up stories, and.
[17:17]
Host 3
You got Darj, who's like, yeah, this guy tried to kill me, but he.
[17:20]
Host 2
Had his leg blown off by a cannon.
[17:22]
Host 3
So, like, I get it, you know, like, yeah, I'd probably be pretty pissed.
[17:26]
Host 4
For literally no reason. Like, they were doing our favorite pastime at that time, which was watching a ship come in and like, oh, I wonder what's happening? That was basically the movies back then.
[17:37]
Host 3
Yeah.
[17:37]
Host 4
When go down to the dock and wave at a ship that's coming.
[17:40]
Host 3
Yeah. People shot them.
[17:41]
Host 4
Yeah. Shot with a fucking cannon. Jesus.
[17:44]
Host 3
And so that's probably when we talk about, like, some people were, like, would have been violent when these folks, like, failed to do their chores.
[17:50]
Host 2
Well, maybe some of the reason why.
[17:51]
Host 3
They were forceful is that they'd had.
[17:53]
Host 2
Friends and family killed or been injured themselves by European guns.
[17:57]
Host 3
You know, not the craziest scenario.
[18:00]
Host 4
Wild take.
[18:01]
Host 2
Yeah.
[18:02]
Host 3
So, you know, there's some other things happening here.
[18:05]
Host 2
There's still this kind of lingering belief that these people have something to do with return to spirits.
[18:10]
Host 3
And, like, when someone dies, you burn their shelter because it's bad luck to.
[18:14]
Host 2
Have the shelter around. The spirit might get stuck there.
[18:17]
Host 3
And so there was this attitude that, like, well, they.
[18:20]
Host 2
They don't need to sleep indoors. Right.
[18:22]
Host 3
Which is bad for them. You know, like, it doesn't make this any more comfortable.
[18:25]
Host 4
Sure.
[18:26]
Host 3
But they're not trying to be assholes by doing that. Probably the kind of darkest matter of.
[18:32]
Host 2
Conflict here is the matter of what happened to Captain Frazier.
[18:35]
Host 3
We don't know exactly, but Eliza's husband.
[18:38]
Host 2
Was killed or died soon after they were taken in by tribe.
[18:42]
Host 3
Eliza would later claim that after about.
[18:45]
Host 2
Five weeks with the bachola, she saw her husband trying and failing to drag a log for, like, the fire.
[18:51]
Host 3
And he was in bad health and.
[18:53]
Host 2
Not able to do this very well. And as she described it, a hunting party returned home empty handed. And for some reason, one of the men stabbed Captain Fraser in the chest. I was horrified to see it emerge several inches through his chest. I pulled the spear from his body and from his mouth, an immense quantity of blood spouted and he died. She furthermore claimed that after this, two other survivors were tied to stakes and executed by sun exposure. Confusingly, she also claims that several crewmen who escaped were burnt, but others were taken to the mainland. There is no evidence of this but her account. And in fact, there is no evidence that any survivors of the shipwreck died on Fraser island at all. The chief officer, Charles Brown, who Eliza.
[19:35]
Host 3
Claims was burnt at the stake, died.
[19:37]
Host 2
On the Australian mainland. Her husband died at Lake Kutharaba, which is also on the mainland. And he was in fact stabbed with a spear at some point, although this did not kill him immediately like she claimed. Instead, it seems like what happened is like someone slapped him in annoyance with a spear which caused like a superficial.
[19:55]
Host 3
Wound, but he was sick and it got infected. And so two weeks later he dies.
[20:01]
Host 2
As a result of the injury. Right, which is a very different story.
[20:04]
Host 4
On the mainland.
[20:05]
Host 3
Yeah, on the mainland also, because they take them to the mainland.
[20:08]
Host 1
He was so annoying that somebody spear slapped him.
[20:13]
Host 4
Yeah, to death.
[20:15]
Host 3
That's kind of what it sounds like. We don't know because again, she lies about all this. Like she says it happens on the island. They are taken off the island, like by the Bachola. It doesn't happen there.
[20:26]
Host 2
The guy she claims is burnt to death definitely isn't burnt to death.
[20:29]
Host 3
And her husband isn't just like impaled and bleeds to death. Immediately he suffers a light wound that gets infected and he dies two weeks later.
[20:38]
Host 1
This is a big episode for the women. Lie guys.
[20:41]
Host 3
Yeah, baby.
[20:44]
Host 4
I mean, I didn't trust her from the beginning.
[20:47]
Host 3
Okay, speaking of lies, that's kind of what advertisements are.
[20:52]
Host 2
Sure.
[20:53]
Host 4
Beautiful lies.
[20:54]
Host 3
Yeah, beautiful lies.
[20:56]
Host 2
Believe them.
[20:57]
Host 3
Just like Australian people believed. Eliza.
[21:02]
Host 2
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[21:57]
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[24:01]
Host 3
Ah, and we're back. So in all, Eliza spent about three.
[24:07]
Host 2
Months with the Bachola and by the time she was rescued by her fellow Europeans, she'd been been moved to the mainland. Her rescue was effected largely thanks to an Irish convict named John Graham, who's.
[24:17]
Host 3
Another one of these really cool guys.
[24:19]
Host 2
You hear about in this story that I want more about. Yeah, he had previously wound up on Fraser island. So he was another he was A.
[24:25]
Host 3
Convict who had, like, escaped to Fraser island, and he had been taken in.
[24:29]
Host 2
By locals who adopted him as Moylo, the spirit of an elder who had died recently.
[24:34]
Host 3
And he'd basically been taken in by.
[24:36]
Host 2
The old man's wife and sons. And Spitzer spent six years living as.
[24:39]
Host 3
Part of the family and then headed back to the mainland.
[24:43]
Host 4
What a run.
[24:44]
Host 1
What is happening in this script?
[24:46]
Host 3
I mean, people could just do stuff. Back then, it was really easy to die doing stuff, but you had a lot of options for just, you know what? I'm gonna live a completely different kind of life now for, like, six years.
[24:58]
Host 1
Bye. I'm still stuck on. You're annoying. I'm gonna spear you in the chest.
[25:03]
Host 3
I have definitely met some people that.
[25:05]
Host 2
Had I had a spear in hand.
[25:06]
Host 3
I would have slapped them with it. Now, thankfully, we have modern methods of.
[25:10]
Host 2
Cleaning spear wounds here. So every time I've done that, I've.
[25:13]
Host 3
Been able to stop them from dying of an infection.
[25:15]
Host 4
It would have been a friendly spear slap to the chest.
[25:18]
Host 2
Oh, it wouldn't have been friendly, but. So anyway, this guy, John Graham, right.
[25:24]
Host 3
He'D spent six years or so living with the Bachola, and then he had returned to European civilization, and he had gotten imprisoned again, Right?
[25:33]
Host 2
So he's in custody.
[25:35]
Host 3
But when members, like folks from the pinnace who had left get back and are like, yeah, there's.
[25:41]
Host 4
How are we spelling that, by the way? I just have to ask the pinnace.
[25:44]
Host 3
P, I, N, N, A, C, E. Okay, got it. So when they get back, people are like, hey, there's more shipwreck victims that are out somewhere near this island, you.
[25:55]
Host 2
Know, off the coast. We should go get them. They start to, like, local authorities start to put together a rescue party, and.
[26:01]
Host 3
Someone'S like, well, there's this dude in.
[26:03]
Host 2
Prison, John Graham, who, like, lived on that island for a while. He probably knows how to talk to.
[26:08]
Host 3
People and can probably find them, Right?
[26:11]
Host 4
So it's like a plot from the Rock, basically.
[26:14]
Host 3
Yes. Yes. This is the Rock.
[26:16]
Host 4
He's Sean Graham, the Rock.
[26:18]
Host 3
Yes, yes.
[26:19]
Host 4
They're like, well, there's only one man who knows how to get in there.
[26:22]
Host 3
The island is where he went to escape from prison, as opposed to the prison he was in.
[26:27]
Host 4
It's complicated, but, yeah, basically.
[26:29]
Host 2
In his book Irish Convict Lives, author D.J. mulvaney describes Graham stripping himself as soon.
[26:35]
Host 3
As he's like, yeah, I'll go rescue these people.
[26:37]
Host 2
He strips naked, greases himself up, and.
[26:40]
Host 3
Then leaves with bread and a potato.
[26:43]
Host 4
Which is what you did. Immediately after accepting my offer to work at Cool Zone or at iheart.
[26:50]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah. I stripped naked, greased myself, bread and a potato, and we're out the door. Yeah. Look, I know it sounds like I'm being like racist to Irish people, but that is what the history says as he just marches off with bread and a potato. According to Fianz, who's like one of the authorities at the time, Graham stripped.
[27:10]
Host 2
Off his clothes, greased himself up with charcoal and grease, and set off to seek information armed only with some bread and some potato. He was soon welcomed back among his people, observing customary ritual by sharing his carbohydrate rich food with them around the fire. That night, he learned of the presence of two young ghosts across Lake Kurabora.
[27:28]
Host 3
He offered tomahawks to those who brought.
[27:30]
Host 2
Them to him, for he stressed, they were my son, sons.
[27:34]
Host 3
So maybe he's not working like he's looking for like two men who were.
[27:38]
Host 2
Among the shipwrecked people.
[27:39]
Host 3
He's not really thinking about Eliza for whatever reason.
[27:41]
Host 4
Oh, those are the ghosts are the white shipwreck victims.
[27:45]
Host 3
That's how he's talking about it to the people on Frasier Island. And they're like, well, we already actually took them across like the, the strait to the mainland. They're over, you know, by this lake now.
[27:55]
Host 4
Yeah. Just a world class bullshitter who's like, yeah. And then I told them that they.
[27:59]
Host 2
Were ghosts over there and they're my.
[28:01]
Host 3
Sons, my other kids. Right.
[28:03]
Host 4
The only way they could possibly understand.
[28:05]
Host 3
He's got the, he's Irish, he's got the gift of gab, and he brought a potato.
[28:09]
Host 2
So, you know, they're endeared to him.
[28:11]
Host 3
You bring me a potato and some.
[28:12]
Host 2
Axes, I'm gonna be your friend.
[28:14]
Host 4
Based on his behavior and having nothing to do with his Irish heritage, I'm going to be forced to assume that he was shit faced this whole time.
[28:21]
Host 2
One has to guess, right? I'm not going off on this mission sober.
[28:26]
Host 1
Was he taking all of his clothes off and greasing up and grabbing.
[28:30]
Host 3
I don't know. Maybe he does this like on the boat when they get him near the island. But the way the story is, it sounds like he's like in Sydney and just strips naked and walking.
[28:38]
Host 4
They're like halfway through giving him the assignment and he's already taking his clothes off.
[28:43]
Host 3
Oh, this guy got his dick out immediately. He was down.
[28:48]
Host 2
Anyway, to make a long story short, Graham saves the day.
[28:50]
Host 3
He rescues a couple of the remaining.
[28:52]
Host 2
Crew members and Eliza Frazier for Which he was rewarded with his freedom and he went on to live an apparently law abiding life. There's a book about him called John Convict 1824 that was published by Robert Gibbings in 1937. Gram.
[29:06]
Host 4
Oh.
[29:07]
Host 3
But he doesn't really seem to have.
[29:08]
Host 2
Done much after this. He at least doesn't wind up in trouble again. So good for you, John Graham.
[29:13]
Host 4
Fucking Grambo. Guy's a legend.
[29:15]
Host 3
Grambo, yeah, yeah. Loves being naked and covered in grease.
[29:18]
Host 4
Yeah. Fucking animal, dude.
[29:22]
Host 2
Thanks to Grambo, Eliza wound up back in Sydney where she spent several months recovering physically from the trauma of the.
[29:28]
Host 3
Journey and crafting the first versions of.
[29:31]
Host 2
What will soon be her famous story. Her exact motivations after this point will forever be unclear. There are many things we know that.
[29:40]
Host 3
She lied about, such as the nature.
[29:43]
Host 2
Of several of the deaths of her crewmen. But then there are things that may be down to interpretation. For example, perhaps she interpreted the behavior of the Bachola as cruel when it was not, and felt a need to punish them by lying and exaggerating what had occurred. The idea of an English lady living among aboriginal people on an island for months titillated white society, not just in Sydney, but around the globe. And we kind of, we have global media by the mid-1830s. Newspapers and stuff get around. So this story doesn't just stay in Sydney for very long.
[30:12]
Host 3
In addition to that, like people are.
[30:14]
Host 2
Leaving constantly Sydney on boats and they're spreading the story around the whole British Empire. Eliza gives her first version of events when she's still in Moreton Bay in September of 1836. And this was noted by Peter Lauer, the historian, as being the least sensational version of the story she would provide. He writes that this version of events was, quote, gradually embroidered with new horrors in Sydney and London for the titillation of eager audiences and anticipation of financial recompense.
[30:42]
Host 4
Right. Like basically a stand up routine that like they're just like working on their material. They're seeing what gets a reaction, they're steering it in that direction.
[30:51]
Host 3
And yeah, it's also, and there's a.
[30:54]
Host 2
Little bit of like a GoFundMe situation.
[30:56]
Host 3
Here where she's like, because she is.
[30:58]
Host 2
Raising donations to help her for this.
[31:01]
Host 3
And she's kind of like, ah, the original story, if I'm gonna really get.
[31:04]
Host 2
Donations, I gotta make people feel sorry.
[31:06]
Host 3
For me if they're gonna open their pocketbooks here.
[31:08]
Host 4
You know, it's a good system, capitalism.
[31:11]
Host 3
It's great. I love the way it works.
[31:13]
Host 4
Oh, my husband is dead. I'm going to have to tell enormous, harmful lies in order to get people to give me their money, because otherwise I'll starve to death.
[31:24]
Host 2
It's simply the only way to succeed. There is some debate that she may have been coaxed along in juicing up the story by her second husband. The man she married not long after.
[31:35]
Host 3
Being, like, within weeks of being rescued, another captain. She's got a type. John Green.
[31:41]
Host 4
Hell, yeah.
[31:42]
Host 2
And at least one version of Vince is that Green helps her massage and.
[31:46]
Host 3
Maybe even written the second version of the story into something that was more.
[31:50]
Host 2
Fit to win sympathy and money from the English citizenry. Because he takes her from Sydney to London. Right. And they get a bunch of donations in Sydney with the first version of the story. Enough that she's doing well. She's got, like, enough money to start a new life. And she's also now married to a captain, but he takes her to London, where they publish another version of events.
[32:11]
Host 3
And they start raising money again to.
[32:14]
Host 2
Compensate for Ms. Frazier.
[32:15]
Host 3
Now, Mrs. Green's trauma, Eliza, again, she's, like, has done pretty well previously, which may have had something to do with.
[32:23]
Host 2
Why Green married her in February of.
[32:25]
Host 3
The next year, but we don't really.
[32:28]
Host 2
Know that he wrote her version of events. The best evidence for this is that when they land in London, they published a more embellished version of the story. And the signature on this was different from how Eliza had signed her first account and how she'd signed documents in the past. And people wonder, oh, was Greene just kind of forging her signature?
[32:46]
Host 3
Did, like, he do this?
[32:48]
Host 4
Right. We'll never know, because, I mean, it's being written, so it must be the man.
[32:53]
Host 3
Right, Right, right, right. And that's also at. A woman could never lie about things that happened to her for money.
[32:58]
Host 4
That's too ingenious. I also wonder, like, was there some element of, like, when people find out that she lived out there with this tribe for so long, like, is there some, like, looking askance and being like, she went savage or, you know, that was like, a big term at the time.
[33:19]
Host 3
Like a wild European, I think was another way they put it. A wild white person. Yeah, Wild white man. That's what they call these convicts. Yeah.
[33:26]
Host 4
She's having to do some reputation by acting like they were mean to her and not that she was accepted into the tribe. Is it, like, helping her kind of save face a little bit?
[33:40]
Host 3
Yes, I think that's part of it.
[33:42]
Host 2
Too, because there's also all these myths or these rumors about, like, well, did she Sleep with any of them or did any of them, like, rape her?
[33:48]
Host 3
Right. Like that's a thing that people talk about.
[33:51]
Host 2
And she kind of plays into to.
[33:53]
Host 3
An extent, because, again, it increases the.
[33:56]
Host 2
Sympathy of the story a little bit.
[33:57]
Host 3
But you also can't go too far because it's bad for your reputation.
[34:01]
Host 2
Right.
[34:02]
Host 3
There's a lot of patriarchal norms in.
[34:05]
Host 2
The society that also play into how she's received and what she says.
[34:09]
Host 4
Yeah, that makes sense. That feels like that's something that's gotta be playing in there. That's gotta be at least a consideration for her and her new captain husband as they're deciding.
[34:20]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah.
[34:21]
Host 2
In the version of the story that.
[34:23]
Host 3
She disseminates in London, the natives of Fraser island, which had been named Fraser island at that point, again, it's always called Ghari, but people now call it.
[34:33]
Host 2
Fraser island because her husband had died there.
[34:35]
Host 3
Even though he didn't die there, he.
[34:37]
Host 2
Died on the mainland. The people there are depicted as nightmarish savages.
[34:41]
Host 3
She called her time with them a.
[34:43]
Host 2
Fate worse than death. She described them as cannibals. And she, of course, raised money from the people of London off her suffering. Now, again, global media does exist by this point.
[34:52]
Host 3
And so as soon as she starts.
[34:54]
Host 2
Telling this story in London, there are people who had been in Sydney and traveled on different boats, maybe even on.
[34:59]
Host 3
The same one, and were like, well, she turned it. First off, she's raising money here.
[35:04]
Host 2
She just raised money in Sydney and she got a lot. And second, it's a different story now.
[35:11]
Host 3
Is she telling you guys she doesn't have any money? Like, this kind of seems fucked up. And so some people go to the.
[35:16]
Host 2
London press, to journalists, and are like, this lady might be a grifter. Right. Which actually causes a scandal. Like, there's articles about this because she comes and she's.
[35:26]
Host 3
Initially, everyone's really sympathetic and giving her money. And then there's stories that like, she's.
[35:32]
Host 2
Raising money a second time off this story. And it's different now. Right.
[35:37]
Host 4
Which probably also doesn't really hurt the virality. The old timey virality of the story.
[35:43]
Host 3
Is controversy sells, baby. No, bad pr.
[35:46]
Host 4
Yeah, controversy. So now, yeah, the story doesn't have more legs if it's just like. And that's messed up. Well, there goes that story. Now it's like, wait, she might be the villain of the story, actually.
[36:02]
Host 3
And then, yeah, this is why periodically.
[36:04]
Host 2
I'll just make up a bastard to do episodes on. For example, Hitler.
[36:08]
Host 3
Not a real guy. Yeah, I just came up with him, you know, Joseph Stalin. Not a real.
[36:14]
Host 1
Okay, you're probably right.
[36:16]
Host 4
Yeah. Maybe not. Maybe not that one. There's a lot of people, people who want to believe that. You did make that one.
[36:21]
Host 3
Yeah, no, yeah, you're right.
[36:24]
Host 4
He's actually a normal guy who gets a bad rap in a lot of places.
[36:29]
Host 3
Just a painter, right?
[36:30]
Host 4
Yeah, he's just a painter that everybody decided.
[36:34]
Host 3
Yeah. Look, Sophie, they can't all be.
[36:37]
Host 4
Unfortunately, not a bit.
[36:38]
Host 3
All the bits are terrible, actually. I don't know. They have to be bits. So this causes a scandal and there.
[36:44]
Host 2
Is a formal inquiry in London, which is where she gives her third and final version of her story. Right? So the third version of this story is like she gives out in court when she is questioned as to what happened. And this is the first version of the story where she claims she was forced to nurse a child by the islanders and that she had given birth.
[37:04]
Host 3
To a baby who died. And maybe. So part of why people say she may have lied about these things or even likely did, is that, like, well.
[37:11]
Host 2
She'S in trouble when she first starts telling people about this.
[37:15]
Host 3
And maybe that's why she brings this up.
[37:18]
Host 2
She doesn't want this inquiry to be.
[37:20]
Host 3
Made to judge her too harshly. They're like, well, if they feel like my baby died and I had to like, nurse this baby, who I am going to.
[37:28]
Host 2
She describes the infant as subhuman. She calls it, quote, one of the most deformed and ugly looking brats my eyes ever beheld.
[37:35]
Host 3
She is very racist.
[37:37]
Host 4
It's also just like you made the point earlier that this becomes like a Marvel Cinematic Universe of, like, multiple stories. Like, it is the writing process of a film where they're like, I just.
[37:49]
Host 3
Like the protagonist baby in there. Yeah, yeah.
[37:52]
Host 4
She's not, like, sympathetic enough and like, they're not scary enough.
[37:56]
Host 3
So we gotta make the she captain more likable.
[37:58]
Host 4
The she captain lost a baby and then she has to nurse. Basically, like the alien from the Alien movies, you know, like, that would really make things scary.
[38:09]
Host 1
Why didn't you try just stripping down and pouring grease all over herself and grabbing a potato? People seem to really like that.
[38:15]
Host 4
That's the move.
[38:16]
Host 3
I mean, first off, Sophie, who wouldn't like that? That.
[38:20]
Host 4
That only works for men. Women who do that go, sorry, she captain.
[38:26]
Host 3
A she captain who does that would.
[38:28]
Host 2
Go right to jail.
[38:31]
Host 3
So disgust is also a major part of her narrative.
[38:34]
Host 2
And that is like, you know, a.
[38:35]
Host 3
Major motivating factor for conservatives. Like the kind of people who are going to be running a board of.
[38:40]
Host 2
Inquiry for the British Empire.
[38:42]
Host 3
Like you get a reaction out of.
[38:44]
Host 2
People by making them disgusted.
[38:46]
Host 3
So I don't think it's coincidental that she dials that up to 10 for.
[38:48]
Host 2
The version she gives when she's in trouble. Ultimately, the whole situation seems to have ended well enough for Eliza. She made a sizable amount of money off of her story and retires, probably with her second husband to New Zealand where she lives out the remainder of her days.
[39:02]
Host 3
So unfortunately, Kiwis, she's one of yours now.
[39:07]
Host 4
So we're good here.
[39:08]
Host 3
We're good here. No, there's a genocide we gotta talk about next. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[41:51]
Host 3
So she disappears. Ol Eliza as a public figure not.
[41:55]
Host 2
Long after this point. But her story continues to spread about as fast as a story could spread in that period of time. In fact, variants of the Eliza Fraser story become a cottage industry in their own right for like a century or. And I guess in a way, I'm continuing that tradition. The story first enters North America in 1837 as a pamphlet titled Narrative of the Capture, Sufferings and miraculous escape of Mrs. Eliza Frazier. Scholar Elaine Brown writes that for American consumption, the illustrator dressed the aboriginal people in loincloths, tunics, hose and feather headdresses and gave them tomahawks, daggers and bows and arrows.
[42:34]
Host 3
So we. They just like, are depicted as, like, a racist drawing of like, indigenous American people because, like, ah, they. Otherwise, American audiences won't get what the fuck they're looking at. Yeah. And also, I have no idea what these people look at. I'm not doing any research before I draw this cover.
[42:49]
Host 4
Right.
[42:51]
Host 2
The first attempt at a serious historic account of the whole deal was John Curtis's the Shipwreck of the Stirling Castle, which gets published in London in 1838. So like a year after Eliza comes to London. London. Now, Curtis is the closest thing to a journalist that existed in that era. And he had attended the inquiry in person and taken notes using a system of shorthand he'd invented himself. So he is.
[43:14]
Host 3
He's there for, like, her court appearance.
[43:16]
Host 2
And he takes notes on the story she tells. He reports on the case for the London Times. And he doesn't just listen to Eliza, he does. Scholar Elaine Brown describes what he does as, quote, a little research of his own.
[43:28]
Host 3
So not a lot.
[43:29]
Host 1
Good for him.
[43:30]
Host 4
Do your own research, bro.
[43:32]
Host 3
Yeah, the equivalent of like. He glances at Wikipedia for like, Fraser.
[43:37]
Host 2
Island is what it's called now. She describes his book as sympathetic to the survivors.
[43:42]
Host 3
Quote, curtis made the most of his.
[43:44]
Host 2
Opportunity to produce a new Robinson Crusoe. He was dealing with a true story of shipwreck in an exotic setting on an unexplored Pacific shore. A cast of exceptional characters. The crew of a merchant's shot, the captain's lady, cruel savages. Red coated soldiers and a heroic runaway convict. A story with unlimited possibilities for conflict, tragedy, and pathos.
[44:04]
Host 4
Sounds like he's thinking like a real journalist, guys.
[44:06]
Host 3
Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Journalists at this point are basically fiction writers. Yeah.
[44:13]
Host 2
We talk about, again, this method of.
[44:15]
Host 3
Oral storytelling that is common on the people of Ghari in a lot of.
[44:21]
Host 2
Ways better than journalism at the time.
[44:22]
Host 3
Time. So that quote comes from a paper.
[44:26]
Host 2
That Elaine Brown wrote in 1993 titled the Legend of Eliza. A survey of the sources, which I would describe as useful but also too sympathetic to Frasier.
[44:35]
Host 3
I'll grant Brown the fact that, as we kind of discussed, a lot of.
[44:38]
Host 2
Misogyny is rooted in stories by other survivors that, like, called Eliza a liar and a she Captain.
[44:45]
Host 3
But also the evidence strongly suggests that.
[44:47]
Host 2
She did lie on the a lot, or at least let herself and her story be used by someone else who lied. Now, there is still a potentially sympathetic version of Eliza in this. A physically and mentally traumatized woman who by several accounts, was not quite sane after her rescue and was easily manipulated both by this new husband and by a public hungry for stories of savage natives and a man who promised her some kind of security and future. Right.
[45:12]
Host 3
That is maybe what's going on here.
[45:14]
Host 2
We'll never really know.
[45:15]
Host 4
And at a time when, yeah, like, women are just like.
[45:18]
Host 3
There's not a lot of options treated like shit.
[45:20]
Host 4
A lot of options immediately, like, viewed, you know, being she.
[45:24]
Host 1
Captain.
[45:25]
Host 4
Yeah, she Captain.
[45:27]
Host 3
And again, she's just got a barrel.
[45:29]
Host 2
Of PTSD from this whole situation.
[45:32]
Host 4
And there's got to be so many, like, sexist insinuations happening. The fact that she survived living with indigenous tribe for that long.
[45:42]
Host 3
Right, yeah.
[45:45]
Host 1
Captain.
[45:46]
Host 4
Sure, sure, sure. Sophie is really luxuriating in this, and I feel like it's going to become a new sound drop and then a T shirt and, yeah, whole brand of merchandising.
[46:00]
Host 3
Yeah, we're really gonna squeeze more water from the rock.
[46:03]
Host 2
That is the Eliza Frazier story.
[46:07]
Host 3
So her lies were just what got the ball rolling.
[46:10]
Host 2
Right. Whether or not you want to see her as sympathetic and in some way.
[46:13]
Host 3
A victim herself or is fundamentally malevolent Poland, what happens next is entirely out.
[46:18]
Host 2
Of her hand and is a malevolent process. Elaine Brown writes back in Sydney. Press accounts of the shipwreck were synthesized for a chapter in Australia's first children's book, A Mother's Offering to Her Children. Written by a lady long resident in New South Wales and printed by the Sydney Gazette in 1841. The text is in the form of A rather mannered conversation between Mrs. S and her children, Julius, Emma, Clara and Lucy. The dates and events mentioned are tediously detailed, but some idea of the tone of the work can be gained from Clary's exclamation on hearing of the death of the mate, Mr. Brown. Such wanton barbarities fill one with horror and indignation and a wish to exterminate the perpetrators of such dreadful cruelties.
[46:57]
Host 3
So this is from a part of.
[46:58]
Host 2
The book where they talk about one.
[46:59]
Host 3
Of the shipwreck survivors being murdered by the people of Gary island and the response of one of her children to this is God, I want to kill. We should exterminate the people who did the this, right? We should exterminate the brutes, right? Like, that's literally a line in a children's book.
[47:16]
Host 4
You know, kids stuff.
[47:17]
Host 3
When we're talking about the way in.
[47:19]
Host 2
Which this story influences the genocide that's.
[47:22]
Host 3
Happening in this period.
[47:23]
Host 2
Literally, like the first major publication in Australia to use this story is like, yeah, we should murder the people who did this. All of them. Right?
[47:32]
Host 3
So to continue with Brown's writing, thus.
[47:35]
Host 2
Emerged the third problem historians have faced in dealing with the fates of the Stirling Castle survivors. The mutually hostile animals attitudes subsequently assumed by both the Wide Bay Aboriginal people and the Europeans who learned of their supposed wanton barbarities through the worldwide publicity given to Eliza Frazier's story. An undercurrent of what poet Judith Wright calls the fear as old as Cain runs through most European accounts.
[47:57]
Host 3
So, you know, it's. It's bad.
[48:00]
Host 2
This is all going to be bad. Now, before we move on, I should note a coda to the Fraser story.
[48:04]
Host 3
Which is that while the early stories.
[48:06]
Host 2
That went viral were very much focused on her as a heroic victim, the most popular early American account was an article from Knickerbocker magazine by Henry Yolden.
[48:15]
Host 3
Who is the crewman who survived and hated Eliza and maybe stole everybody's water. So he's the guy who goes viral in the US for a version of this story and he describes her as a vixen. So again, maybe not himself the best source.
[48:30]
Host 4
God, also, everybody's just so horny back then. Oh, yeah, just like, oh, yeah, she's a vixen.
[48:34]
Host 3
You gotta really cloak it. Yeah, the Onlyfans is very primitive at that point.
[48:39]
Host 4
On the kid book front, I would just. On Daily Zeitgeist, we were just talking about this book written by Mike Huckabee called Kid's Guide to President Trump. That.
[48:50]
Host 3
Yeah, I don't think kids need that okay.
[48:52]
Host 4
Yeah. And one of the things, one of the quotes was when people come to take this is him describing illegal immigration is when people come to take money and jobs without paying taxes, sneak in to sell drugs, commit other people crimes, and in worst case, commit acts of terrorism. So, you know, as wild as my continuing.
[49:13]
Host 3
Yeah.
[49:14]
Host 4
Racist.
[49:15]
Host 1
Isn't he the current ambassador, U.S. ambassador to Israel.
[49:18]
Host 4
And this is how. One of the ways that he. It's actually like a weirdly popular way to kiss up to Trump is making a children's book about him. Because I also, I think it. He likes the idea of being indoctrinating children and it's also at his reading level.
[49:34]
Host 2
Level.
[49:35]
Host 4
So he's like, hell, yeah.
[49:36]
Host 3
And again, this book, this is the.
[49:38]
Host 2
First, like, children's book published in Australia, comes out in 1841.
[49:42]
Host 3
A lot of the genocide we're talking.
[49:43]
Host 2
About is like in the 70s and 1870s, 80s, 90s.
[49:46]
Host 3
So it's going to be perpetrated and orchestrated by men who would have grown.
[49:50]
Host 4
Up as the generation that was like, yeah, this was their green eggs and ham.
[49:55]
Host 3
Obviously that's not the only thing.
[49:57]
Host 2
Right. It's not just this children's book makes them all do a genocide, but it's.
[50:01]
Host 3
Not like a non factor.
[50:03]
Host 4
Yeah. It's background noise for their growing.
[50:06]
Host 3
Yeah.
[50:07]
Host 2
So long after that account spreads in the US in the 1880s, another account is published claiming that an entirely different convict, a guy named Bracewell, had actually rescued Eliza. And Bracewell is the source of this. There's no evidence of this. There are some claims that maybe he sexually assaulted Eliza.
[50:24]
Host 3
That's also not based on anything. And it's mainly just. I only bring this up to note that like fucking 40 years later, people.
[50:31]
Host 2
Are coming up with new versions of this story based on very little evidence because it still sells.
[50:36]
Host 3
There's a book written about Bracewell's claims.
[50:39]
Host 2
Right.
[50:39]
Host 3
By a guy named Russell in 1888.
[50:42]
Host 2
Because there's still money in this shit. Right?
[50:44]
Host 4
It's like the JFK assassination. It's like just people will keep telling and retelling the stories.
[50:51]
Host 3
Yes.
[50:51]
Host 4
And also everyone's so horny, they're like, oh, then there's this guy Bracewell who comes in and he's like, kind of handsome.
[50:58]
Host 3
It's not really worth getting.
[51:00]
Host 2
He may have had some involvement, but.
[51:02]
Host 3
Like, it's not really worth talking about.
[51:03]
Host 2
What is worth noting is that Russell, the guy who writes this book about race. Wolf's claims in 1888 describes how in the 1880s, decades after Eliza left for New Zealand. There are sideshows on the London streets featuring an Eliza impersonator recounting her story.
[51:19]
Host 3
Right? What, so like someone pretending to be her telling her story, a fake she.
[51:23]
Host 1
Captain, what's happening here?
[51:25]
Host 3
Yeah, it's awesome. Quote from Russell's book.
[51:28]
Host 2
Walking from Hyde park down Oxford Street, I observed a man who was carrying over his shoulder one of those show advertisements. A large wooden square frame nailed at the end of a long pole. On the calico with which it was covered was a bright colored daub which represented savages with bows and arrows. Some dead bodies of white men and women which other savages were cutting up on the ground. And another squad was holding on spits to a large fire.
[51:49]
Host 3
It was amusing enough to stop me.
[51:50]
Host 2
In my walk, horrible enough to impress the writing beneath this picture on my mind. Stirling Castle wrecked on the coast of New Holland. Botany Bay, all killed and eaten by savages. Only survivor, a woman to be seen. Six pence admission.
[52:04]
Host 3
And there's a lot there, Right. Both that at this point, the story has turned into all of these people were eaten by these savages.
[52:11]
Host 2
Right.
[52:12]
Host 3
Which just is not a part. Is not even a part of the.
[52:15]
Host 2
Original versions of this story. Right.
[52:16]
Host 3
It's just something people have admitted to.
[52:18]
Host 2
Make it more racist. And also, you can see the old lady.
[52:22]
Host 3
If you just pay, she'll talk to you about what happened, which is definitely not Eliza.
[52:26]
Host 2
We know that she is in.
[52:28]
Host 3
So it's gotta be.
[52:28]
Host 2
Be assuming he didn't just make this up. I don't think he would.
[52:31]
Host 3
This has to be like a show where someone's like, we'll just get some.
[52:34]
Host 2
Old lady to pretend to be Eliza. We'll make some fucking money.
[52:36]
Host 4
Which was like a popular thing back in the day.
[52:38]
Host 3
Like that all the time.
[52:39]
Host 4
Yeah. Touring people who were like, I was George Washington's, like, wet nephew.
[52:44]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah, whatever.
[52:47]
Host 4
Also like this, the idea of like a, you know, white woman who is under attack from, you know, the only.
[52:56]
Host 3
Survivor of this cannibal holocaust. Right.
[52:58]
Host 4
Yeah, that's. That's also like the birth of a nation. And like, that's a powerful. Like that that will start wars across the history of, you know, white supremacy and racism in, you know, the history of the world.
[53:12]
Host 3
You're dash gum tootin' so we know.
[53:15]
Host 2
That in the US and the UK there were also stage productions of the story of the Sterling Shipwreck.
[53:20]
Host 3
It gets turned into a play. There's, like, versions of this play up.
[53:23]
Host 2
Into the mid 20th century and of.
[53:26]
Host 3
Eliza's captivity with savages.
[53:28]
Host 2
Right. And the verbiage that Russell uses here.
[53:32]
Host 3
Is in keeping with like leaflets advertising.
[53:35]
Host 2
Popular republications of the story from around the same time.
[53:38]
Host 3
Like this Eliza Fraser, who existed seven.
[53:42]
Host 2
Days without food or water. The dreadful sufferings of Ms. Fraser, who with her husband and the survivors of the ill fated crew are captured by the savages of New Holland. And by them stripped entirely naked and driven into the bush. Their dreadful slavery, cruel toil and excruciating tortures inflicted on them. The horrid of Mr. Brown, who was roasted alive over a slow fire kindled beneath his feet. Meeting of Mr. And Mrs. Fraser and the inhuman murder of Captain Fraser in the presence of his wife.
[54:10]
Host 4
It's like meeting of Mr. And Mrs. So we get to see the meet cute and his murder.
[54:15]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I guess there's. Maybe they start with I don't know. But this is how the story has.
[54:20]
Host 2
Been summarized now, right.
[54:22]
Host 3
It's just completely separate from what we know of the reality.
[54:25]
Host 4
And they're bringing in like the iconography that we've all seen in like old, like 50s and 60s movies where somebody is captured by cannibals and like they're tied to a post and there's a fire around them that, you know, like all of those images are like. Oh, yeah, that's the familiar cannibal imagery.
[54:45]
Host 3
Yeah. And the reality is like, yeah, you've got someone who's like starving and frustrated and maybe like hit someone who's not able to.
[54:51]
Host 2
Who's like, just can't learn a simple task.
[54:53]
Host 3
Like, that's not ideal, but it's turned into like they were tortured and cooked over fires. Yes, yeah. Burnt alive. Yeah.
[55:02]
Host 2
So what really matters here is that the story became a huge and prominent part of the white Australian and European conception of the Aboriginal peoples of Australia. This would contribute to some pretty disastrous things in the coming decades. There's no one massacre or atrocity you can point to and say, well, they did this because of what Eliza said.
[55:19]
Host 3
But I think I've established how popular.
[55:20]
Host 2
This account was and thus influential. A supplement put out by the Fraser Island Defenders association to notes that Fraser Island Aboriginal people gained international notoriety through the stories of Eliza Fraser. And one of Eliza Fraser's legacies was that there would be many massacres of the very people who had helped her. In 1842, white Australians established a head station called Tiaro near Moreton Bay, which.
[55:43]
Host 3
Is again the bay that's very close to, you know, the island.
[55:46]
Host 2
This was attacked so vigorously by local tribes that the forces manning it were withdrawn and the station abandoned mere months later. The commissioner of Crown Lands for Moreton bay noted in 1843 that 12 white people had fallen as sacrifice to the aboriginal peoples of the area.
[56:01]
Host 3
And he's not saying they were sacrificed by those people.
[56:04]
Host 2
He's saying that those people were a sacrifice for the cause of colonialism.
[56:07]
Host 3
Right, sure. It's Also, he notes, 12 white people died.
[56:11]
Host 2
He did not bother to recount how many indigenous inhabitants were killed by white settlers in the same time period.
[56:16]
Host 4
Not important, Robert.
[56:17]
Host 3
No.
[56:17]
Host 2
And Peter Lauer's history of Fraser island says that this was the norm. Right. They just didn't talk about it.
[56:21]
Host 3
About that quote.
[56:23]
Host 2
So successful was aboriginal resistance activities against isolated white settlers in this period that those moving into the Mary river area by the late 1840s were taking up the country abandoned two, even three times before. The pattern of warfare escalating upon this pastoral frontier by the late 40s is well exemplified by developments at Richard Jones's Bowie station on the Mary river. In late November 1848, Jones experienced two successive raids upon his flocks, and a large number were carried off not from any reasons of hunger, but as a guerrilla resistance technique, or as the Moreton Bay Courier saw fit to term it, in the mere wantonness of patriotism. Hollanders. A reprisal party of 10 whites, led by station manager Mr. Clements and assisted by a collaborative black guide, then attacked the aboriginal camp, firing a volley into it and dispersing them.
[57:09]
Host 3
And again, there's no mention made of.
[57:11]
Host 2
How many people were killed in this barrage of gunfire. Right. But this is kind of the nature of the conflict for a while.
[57:18]
Host 3
There's both like, murder when you've got these white folks at stations, but also, oh, they've got, like a couple thousand.
[57:24]
Host 2
Sheep here, and there's not enough of.
[57:25]
Host 3
Them to guard them.
[57:26]
Host 2
We'll either kill or capture, take the.
[57:28]
Host 3
Sheep for ourselves, and that will render this unprofitable for them because we've started.
[57:32]
Host 2
To gain an understanding of how their.
[57:34]
Host 3
Society works and that if we can make this costly enough, they won't be.
[57:39]
Host 2
Able to afford to keep taking our shit. Right.
[57:41]
Host 4
And that's the one thing us whites cannot abide, is taking our shit.
[57:46]
Host 3
Yeah, taking our shit.
[57:47]
Host 4
That's our property. And that's.
[57:50]
Host 3
Well, and that is very much like.
[57:53]
Host 2
However things get dressed up today.
[57:54]
Host 3
And you can find some articles made.
[57:57]
Host 2
By conservative white Australians today about, like.
[58:00]
Host 3
Oh, you know, there really was a.
[58:01]
Host 2
Lot of horrible violence done by these people to these settlers.
[58:05]
Host 3
And, you know, these settlers were just trying to make a Living evidence at.
[58:08]
Host 2
The time, from the way these settlers was writing, paints a very ugly picture. The Courier, which was a local paper, wrote, published an editorial during this period, architecture arguing, we hold this country by the right of conquest, and if that right gives us a just claim to its continued possession, we must be empowered to enforce our claim by the strong arm when necessary. The blacks have just the same claim to the restoration of their decayed nationality as would the Principality of Wales have if it rose in open rebellion against the crown. One law must apply to all conquered nations so far as the rights of the conqueror. Order and rule must be maintained. And if this cannot be done by kindness and endeavour, indulgence, it must then be affected by the iron rod.
[58:49]
Host 4
Sound like cool people.
[58:50]
Host 3
I feel like they sound nice.
[58:52]
Host 4
They sound like nice people who would be easy to get along with.
[58:56]
Host 3
Jesus Christ.
[58:57]
Host 2
I don't see why anyone's fighting back against them.
[58:59]
Host 4
Right. Why are they being so mean to us?
[59:02]
Host 3
Yeah, well, they don't want us to just take their stuff.
[59:05]
Host 4
Yeah.
[59:06]
Host 2
Over the next several years, until 1850, different groups of aboriginal warriors continued. This is. And this is another thing that's worth emphasizing. This is a very successful insurgent campaign they are planning. They, like, they're thinking this through and they're. They're winning for a while. They take thousands of sheep, they destroy a lot of infrastructure and they kill a number of settlers. And the effect of all this is to stretch the already insufficient local white labor supply and render settling in the area financially unviable. Lauer describes this incredibly successful, vigorous defense as partly a response to the absolute shattering of the worldview many of these peoples had held. Held for since time immemorial. The dawning realization that whites were not explicable spirits, but unknown usurpers whose guns and horses induced terror and whose imposed presence demanded utter forfeiture of territory must have emerged as a dreadful, almost inexpressible revelation. The traditional verities of a complex, orderly pattern of existence were rudely shaken. Spiritual values were partially falsified, and the formerly authoritative explanations of tribal elders were increasingly undermined. A people who had totally believed in a certain right mode of behavior for every person. The sacrosanct nature of individual family and tribal totems, and all the rules of residency, hospitality and reciprocity were rapidly confronted by incomers with new unstated rules and behavioral modes, who were no respecters of totems or territorial boundaries, and who were ready to impose an exclusive hegemony by force of arms. Tribal society here faced the most Critical impasse conceivable. For to lose land was not simply to lose livelihood, but to abandon the meaning of life itself. The sudden onset of an unprecedented invasion situation demanded from the indigenous, therefore, new patterns of adaptation and resistance and encouraged the emergence of new leaders capable of meeting the onslaught. And again, so this is like a.
[60:55]
Host 3
Culture that is changing and adapting. And one of the things they're doing is, like, okay, the people who told us these white folks were one thing, we're wrong. We probably shouldn't listen to them about.
[61:04]
Host 2
How to handle this situation.
[61:05]
Host 3
We need, like, a new plan, because.
[61:07]
Host 2
What we were doing doesn't work. Now, ultimately, after several years of this, Australian authorities call the native police into the situation, which are like aboriginal people who are taken in and trained and armed as police and led by white officers. Through the early 1850s, there were a number of bloody, cold clashes between tribesmen and these colonial forces that killed enough warriors to force their retreat to Fraser Island. Right. They basically use it as a natural fortress, that's how Lauer describes this. So that they can avoid, like, European reprisal raids. And, you know, this seems to be something that goes on for several years from the end of the 1840s up to the beginning of the 1850s.
[61:49]
Host 3
And there's a lot of talk with.
[61:50]
Host 2
Like, officers of the native force and.
[61:52]
Host 3
Local authorities that, like, we have to actually land people on the island to, quote, finally put a stop to collisions.
[62:00]
Host 2
Between blacks and whites. And there's an interesting line here in Lauer's writing. Although the native police acted as a paramilitary body engaged in border warfare while in the field, no legal recognition of this role could be given. For officially, the territory of others was not being conquered. It was merely seen as Crown land being settled. Resisting natives were therefore held to be British subjects behaving criminally rather than being accorded slavery status as the legitimate force of a warring people opposing the invasion of their lands. Thus, in order to invade Fraser island, the required legal procedure was that the execution of warrants.
[62:34]
Host 3
So basically, well, we can't like this.
[62:38]
Host 2
Island, even though none of us, no.
[62:40]
Host 3
White people live there, is Crown land, right?
[62:42]
Host 4
Yeah, yeah, Just land on it and be like, I hereby declare that this is. Yeah, you are trespassing.
[62:48]
Host 2
Yeah, you're trespassing.
[62:49]
Host 3
And we have a warrant, right?
[62:50]
Host 2
We have to write out a warrant before. So they go around to locals to get, like, descriptions of some of the men who had been leading raids.
[62:57]
Host 3
And some of them are just known.
[62:58]
Host 2
By, like, descriptive names that settlers give.
[63:01]
Host 3
Them, but they actually have a Bunch of warrants in hand for 35 Aboriginal.
[63:05]
Host 2
Men for murder and felony of settlers, right? And that's when they invade Fraser Island. This force of native police, it's with all of these warrants. So they commence an assault on August 4, 1850. Police engage and slaughter locals and withdraw several times, but raids on mainland sediments continue. So in Christmas Eve of 1851, the native police engage in a final clearing of the island. A mix of two dozen native police under several white officers and an undisclosed number of random armed white volunteers, all armed and sworn in as special constables, run rampant across the island, killing whoever they can.
[63:42]
Host 3
So, like these people police get together with a bunch of just like local militia, basically like angry white farmers, and they do an ethnic cleansing on Fraser.
[63:53]
Host 2
Island, right, on Angari island, right, they're calling it Fraser Island.
[63:58]
Host 3
And that's how like a lot of these people get like forced off.
[64:01]
Host 2
That's kind of.
[64:02]
Host 3
It's not entirely the end of habitation of the island in this period of time, but it like, is sort of.
[64:07]
Host 2
The beginning of the end. In official reports, this is always described as a police action. And again, you can still find conservatives.
[64:16]
Host 3
Saying like, well, they were just trying.
[64:17]
Host 2
To arrest people who had committed crimes. And there were several men taken into.
[64:22]
Host 3
Custody and apparently tried, although there's no.
[64:25]
Host 2
Evidence that any sort of judicial procedure was followed.
[64:28]
Host 3
They were just like, yeah, we tried and convicted them. You know, maybe they just shot him where they stood and lied about that. Later, one local reporter at the time.
[64:37]
Host 2
Wrote, rumors are afloat that the natives were driven into the sea and kept there as long as daylight or, or life lasted. So basically we drove these people into, some say the sea, some say it's the Susan river, and waited until they drowned.
[64:51]
Host 3
Like that's how this massacre finishes.
[64:53]
Host 2
And somewhere between 50 and 100 Bachala.
[64:55]
Host 3
People are killed that way, right?
[64:56]
Host 4
Jesus.
[64:58]
Host 3
Now again, you can find a lot of argument.
[65:00]
Host 2
I found a whole book by this Australian conservative commentator arguing that this massacre never happened. I should note that the publisher of the that book, Connor Court Publishing, also publishes works of climate change denial and.
[65:12]
Host 3
Books by famous right wing shitheads like Cardinal George Pell, who has been accused of covering up and ignoring child sexual.
[65:18]
Host 2
Abuse in the 1970s.
[65:20]
Host 3
So maybe I don't consider that the.
[65:22]
Host 2
Best source in the world. Fiona Foley, who I quoted earlier, and.
[65:27]
Host 3
Isabel Chola, woman artist and writer, heard.
[65:30]
Host 2
Stories of the massacre from her relatives growing up as a child. And she created a sculpture based on these stories titled Annihilation of the Blacks, which became one of the National Museum of Australia's first major acquisitions by an urban Aboriginal artist, Aboriginal person artist. And this is. Sophie's going to show you this work, Annihilation of the Blacks, by Fiona Foley.
[65:51]
Host 3
Who we quoted from earlier.
[65:53]
Host 2
It's a pretty striking.
[65:55]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah.
[65:57]
Host 1
Do you want to describe it, Robert?
[65:59]
Host 3
Yeah, it's. I mean, you've got two what look like trees, basically. I mean, I think they're made from.
[66:05]
Host 2
Branches, but they're supposed to be trees.
[66:06]
Host 3
With a branch lying in between them.
[66:09]
Host 2
They're sort of like Y shaped at the top, and there's a branch in between them. And strung up on the branch are.
[66:14]
Host 3
Let me count here, nine.
[66:18]
Host 2
Black human bodies strung up and hung while a.
[66:21]
Host 3
Single white person stands below with a.
[66:24]
Host 2
Pretty deep shadow cast looking over them. So ultimately, the Aboriginal peoples of Fraser island were forced out of their homes for generations.
[66:33]
Host 3
The displacement was justified by the whites.
[66:35]
Host 2
Not only by the violence of the years of raids, but by the legacy of Eliza Fraser's account. In her 2016 book Finding Eliza, Larissa Barent writes that stories like Eliza's provided fuel for British fear of cohabitation with Native peoples. And quote, once these anxieties found expression and form in narratives such as as Elizas, they justified the mechanisms for surveillance of Aboriginal people through policing practices, legal control, and government policy.
[67:01]
Host 3
And in her own article, Foley adds.
[67:04]
Host 2
The unspoken fear in Eliza's case was that this white woman could be sexually violated by Aboriginal men if not rescued. Racialized anxieties have formulated many patterns of structured behaviors used to subjugate Aboriginal men, women and children in Australia.
[67:18]
Host 3
And, you know, yeah, it's fucked up.
[67:22]
Host 2
And it's made all the more frustrating.
[67:24]
Host 3
By the fact that while this displacement and slaughter was at its height near.
[67:29]
Host 2
The end of the 1800s, clear evidence arose, and this is, while we're still in the 1800s, that the whole Fraser story had been a lie. In 1874, a colonial official named Archibald Meston spoke to several elderly men at Noosa and Fraser island who had been a link when Eliza and other members of her crew were sheltered. These are members of the Bachola who had known her then. Right.
[67:52]
Host 3
And so this colonial officer official, like, who's, you know, probably may himself have.
[67:56]
Host 2
Kind of grown up or as a.
[67:57]
Host 3
Young person or at least knew young.
[67:59]
Host 2
People who were raised on these stories.
[68:00]
Host 3
Is like, I'm gonna see if I.
[68:01]
Host 2
Can talk to anyone else who was there. Right?
[68:04]
Host 3
Yeah. And here's how Lauer summarizes that.
[68:07]
Host 2
Concerning Eliza Frazier, Meston wrote, she must have either had a serious quarrel with Truth. Or else her head was badly affected by her experiences. Certainly she gave a wildly improbable tale in Brisbane, accusing the blacks of deeds quite foreign to their known character and quite unknown before or since in Aboriginal annals. Bracewell and Durham Boy both declared that Ms. Fraser's tales in Brisbane, Sydney and London were evolved from her own imagination. The old men in the 70s told Meston a story very different from that of the lady to the effect that the Europeans were received in a friendly manner and passed on in canoes to the men mainland at Inskip Point to be forwarded to the white people at the Brisbane convict settlement. And we know they were sent to the mainland. That version of the story that like, yeah, we sent them there because we were trying to get them back home is totally consistent with the objective evidence that we have.
[68:53]
Host 3
And this also comports orally with the.
[68:55]
Host 2
Story of the Bachola themselves. I found an article in the Courier Mail which interviewed Auntie Francis Gala, who's an elder of the tribe, who says of Frazier's story, it isn't true for two very sound reasons and never came down our oral storyline. Whereas everything else of significance that happened in the past few hundred years did come down, and there's no dance about it. If James Frazier had been murdered, we would still know that dance today.
[69:18]
Host 3
Like, we would have made a dance about killing that guy if we'd done it. Right? Like we have that for other people, you know, and it's a good point. Like there's all, you know.
[69:27]
Host 4
Yeah, we don't skimp on. Yeah, that. That's like an important.
[69:30]
Host 3
We would dance about this, right.
[69:34]
Host 4
We wanted to. It would have been fucking great, but we. We didn't.
[69:37]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should also note here that although.
[69:41]
Host 2
Meston is kind of a hero in this part of the story where he's.
[69:44]
Host 3
Helping to break this myth, or at least attempting to, he's also not what.
[69:48]
Host 2
You would call a kind man to.
[69:50]
Host 3
The Aboriginal people of Queensland, even though.
[69:53]
Host 2
His official title was Southern Protector of the Aboriginals. It was Meston who carried out an experimental attempt to stamp out opium use.
[70:00]
Host 3
Among the population of Aboriginal people, which.
[70:03]
Host 2
Is generally describ by their descendants today as an excuse to govern and control the lives of their ancestors.
[70:09]
Host 3
Per Foley, quote, the opium act contained.
[70:12]
Host 2
33 clauses governing Aboriginal lives with its tentacles reaching into my traditional country and the lives of 51 Bachola people living in Maryborough who are forcibly removed to the mission on Ghari under Archibald Meston's direction. And ultimately the peoples who had inhabited Ghari for many thousands of years were dispossessed of their home. Right. They eventually get kicked entirely off of the island.
[70:33]
Host 3
And this is kind of part of that process.
[70:36]
Host 2
And the whole situation was not remedied for them. This happens at the end of the 1800s, and there don't start to be remedies to this until 1993, when the Native Title act is passed in Australia.
[70:48]
Host 3
And actually, Fianna Foley's great aunt is.
[70:51]
Host 2
The first Bachola person to lodge a title claim on Ghari island, which itself is officially renamed in 2023. So it is known legally as Fraser island until 2023, when it is renamed.
[71:03]
Host 3
Ghari, which is what it was originally called.
[71:06]
Host 2
So that just happened.
[71:07]
Host 1
That's crazy.
[71:09]
Host 4
2023.
[71:11]
Host 3
2023, they finally get their name back.
[71:14]
Host 4
The wheels of history turn very slowly when it comes to naming things, but we go pretty fast and check things out later, fact check later when it comes to killing people. We're pretty quick on that front. Yeah.
[71:28]
Host 3
Yep. Great.
[71:30]
Host 2
Well, that's the story.
[71:31]
Host 3
You got any pluggables to plug?
[71:33]
Host 4
I mean, I don't know it. That does sound shockingly familiar with, like, people being driven off again, there's just like all sorts of these things from history where that seem somewhat familiar if you pay attention to the news, which is something that we cover over on the Daily Zeitgeist, me and my co host, Miles Gray, which you can go check out anywhere. Fine. Podcasts are given away for free. You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore o' Brien and on Blue skyackob.
[72:08]
Host 3
And then the number one, Jackie O.
[72:10]
Host 2
Which is not what we call you.
[72:13]
Host 4
No, not at all. My cousins. Yo, Jackie.
[72:17]
Host 3
Yeah, yeah. Although, like Jacqueline Onassis, you also also.
[72:23]
Host 2
Were present when JFK was assassinated.
[72:25]
Host 4
Not a lot of people know that, and that's because I don't want them to.
[72:29]
Host 3
No. Yeah, yeah. Because the statue of limitations is still not up.
[72:33]
Host 2
Oh, well, that too. Yes.
[72:34]
Host 3
The CIA vampire thing. Yes, yes.
[72:37]
Host 1
That is the first thing you told me. You know.
[72:39]
Host 4
Yeah, I know. It's a. You'd think that CIA would be, oh, nice to meet you. You'd think I'd be more discreet. And yet I just. Usually when I meet somebody, I brag about having seen the life drain from Kennedy's eyes, take off my clothes, cover myself in grease, grab a tater and some bread and run out the door.
[73:03]
Host 3
And listen, folks, you listening at home?
[73:06]
Host 2
Don't keep listening to the news. The podcast is over. Come back and listen next week, but.
[73:10]
Host 3
Take some time off the Internet.
[73:12]
Host 2
Do a little digital detox. Strip naked, cover yourself in grease, grab.
[73:16]
Host 3
A potato and some beef bread and.
[73:18]
Host 2
Run off into the woods, you know, see what happens to you.
[73:22]
Host 3
It'll probably be fine.
[73:23]
Host 4
I feel like that is better than, like, most of the advice that you get online right now. It is. Yeah.
[73:29]
Host 3
Yeah. It's also healthier than being on social media some time. Naked in the woods, covered in grease. Good shit.
[73:34]
Host 4
That's right.
[73:35]
Host 1
Or just pet a dog if they want you to.
[73:38]
Host 3
Yeah.
[73:38]
Host 2
Or pet a dog. I don't know.
[73:40]
Host 3
Naked, grease, potato, pet a dog. Both good things.
[73:43]
Host 1
If they want you.
[73:45]
Host 2
Mm. If they want you to. But strip naked, cover yourself in grease.
[73:49]
Host 3
Whether or not anyone wants you to. Yes, you do that.
[73:52]
Host 2
No matter what. Do not listen to anyone who says.
[73:54]
Host 3
Don'T get naked and covered in grease. All right.
[73:57]
Host 4
Great advice.
[74:01]
Host 1
Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is Now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards.
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Okay, we could be here all day.
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