Behind the Bastards: Part Two – How Heinrich Himmler Went From Nerdy Boy to Master of the SS

Podcast: Behind the Bastards (Cool Zone Media / iHeartPodcasts)
Host: Robert Evans
Date: September 4, 2025

Episode Overview

In this second installment on Heinrich Himmler’s life, Robert Evans and his co-host trace Himmler’s journey from a sickly, nerdy boy in Imperial Germany through his formative years during and after World War I. Rather than reducing him to a cartoonish monster, the episode explores the human quirks, ideological roots, personal failings, and incremental choices that transformed Himmler from an aspiring soldier to architect of the SS. The episode emphasizes the dangers of otherizing evil, offering a nuanced portrait of how societal forces, personal insecurity, and fringe beliefs merge in the making of history’s worst villains.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Himmler's Early Life and World War I Influences

• Patriotic Fervor and Propaganda:

  • Young Himmler’s diaries reflect how German propaganda shaped his perceptions of the war (05:22).
    • "One of his early diary entries... he just writes: 'English Army beaten.'... 'I'm as happy at these victories as the English and French are no doubt annoyed at them.'" – Robert Evans (05:52)
  • Himmler’s excitement is dampened when he observes local Bavarians’ lack of enthusiasm and hears a wounded veteran’s realistic horror stories (08:09).
    • "All my neighbors are cowards... they don't think it's awesome... this guy who got machine-gunned and all of his friends died is inventing rumors that the war's gonna be bad." – Robert Evans (08:44)

• Youthful Empathy and Early Bigotry:

  • Displays brief compassion for French POWs, anger at locals for mistreating them (12:10).
  • Yet dehumanizes Russian POWs, writing they "multiply like vermin"—early evidence of the racist worldview that would intensify (12:50).

2. Nature, Nurture, and the Making of a "Bastard"

• Capacity for Empathy:

  • Researchers highlight a dichotomy: a "normal" young Himmler with flashes of kindness, and the monstrous adult (13:00).
  • "I don't know that I would agree Himmler was a psychopath as an adult... He is capable of empathy and choosing to do terrible things—100%." – Robert Evans (13:46)
  • Theme: “Otherizing” monstrous figures lets the rest of us off the hook (14:12).

• Personal Insecurity Drives Obsession:

  • Fails to join the military as he wanted—his health and social class stir intense insecurity and aspirations (15:45).
  • Obsessive weightlifting and quests for masculinity stem both from health anxieties and a desire for status, not just Freudian "anal retention" (17:30).

3. Postwar Disillusionment & Search for Belonging

• Frustrated Ambition:

  • Despite family connections, Himmler is seen as too frail and immature for frontline combat; his brother emerges as the heroic opposite (23:45).
  • He signs his letters “Heinrich the soldier” (26:00), desperate for affiliation.

• Care Packages and Petulance:

  • Tone shifts as Himmler whines about lack of care packages, contrasting starkly with his brother’s harrowing front-line ordeals (27:50).
    • "Dearest parents, today again, I have got nothing from you. That's mean." – Robert Evans, reading Himmler’s letter (27:25)

4. Early Political Radicalization and Involvement

• "Stabbed in the Back" Myth and Blaming Jews/Socialists:

  • Embraces conspiracy that the German army was betrayed, not defeated—a mindset that seeds future Nazi ideology (35:39).
    • "For Heinrich, it's not only did we get stabbed in the back and Germany was robbed of its great victory, I was robbed of my chance to be a hero, be a real man." – Robert Evans (37:00)

• Joining the Freikorps and Far-Right Circles:

  • Nominal involvement with militias, but excluded from real action—remains a marginal figure, yearning for recognition (41:00).
  • Experiences postwar Germany’s instability and the rise of competing political and cultural movements.

5. Drift into Mysticism and Völkisch Ideology

• Influence of the Völkisch Movement:

  • Isolated and weakened by illness, Himmler fills time reading volkish and esoteric literature, fueling his radicalization (45:10).
    • The movement blends German romantic nationalism, exclusionary racial identity, mysticism, and pseudoscience (46:19).
    • "Volk signifies the union of a group of people with a transcendental essence." – George Moss, as quoted by Evans (46:19)
  • Comparison to the 1980s New Age movement and COVID-era radicalization online (48:53).

• Anti-Semitism and Conspiracy Thinking:

  • Reads anti-Freemason, anti-Jewish propaganda:
    • "Freemasonry was strongly influenced by the Jews, was aiming for world revolution, and was overwhelmingly to blame for the world war. Himmler agreed and commented, 'A book that sheds light on everything and tells us who we have to fight first.'" – Robert Evans quoting Bill Yen (53:06)

6. College Life: Fraternities, Masculinity, and Awkward Romance

• Dueling Clubs and "Scar Culture":

  • Status among elite students involved fencing for facial scars—Himmler isn’t skilled, but tries to "fit in" (58:00).
  • Typical nights of mild drinking and attempts at bravado (59:53).
    • "He writes in his diary a night out drinking: 'It was very jolly. I drank eight glasses of wine. At 12:30, we went home on the train. Most of us were tipsy, so it was very funny.'" – (59:33)

• Rising Anti-Semitic Attitudes:

  • Fraternity debates about whether to admit Jews spark Himmler’s break with Catholic teaching, moving toward blood-based, exclusionary racism (65:49, 68:43).

• Awkward, Incel-esque Attitude Toward Women:

  • Begins writing wistful, self-pitying diary entries about women—expressing desires to be their savior or feeling entitled to affection (69:52).
    • "She wants kissing. This is so gross. If sweet young things knew how they worried us, they would no doubt try not to." – Himmler, via Robert Evans (69:55)

7. Falling Deep Into Mystical and Occult Pseudohistory

• Obsession with Mythic Germanic Past:
  • Devours literature about “noble” ancestors, knightly orders, and fringe historical theories (56:40).
  • Idolizes figures like Guido von List, who claimed to channel spirits and invented a runic alphabet, laying intellectual groundwork for Nazi occult beliefs (74:33).
    • "Portrays himself as something between an archaeologist and a wizard... he uncovers this system not by real archaeology, but by ghost archaeology." – Robert Evans (75:02)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Empathy and Evil:
  "I think it's worse if you can care about people and do terrible things. That's not as bad as being capable of empathy and choosing to do those things—100%." – Robert Evans (13:46)

• On Masculinity and Military Ambition:
  "There's a modern-day version of Himmler that would have fallen for a lot of these, like, far-right Joe Rogany...fitness guys. He would have been really into that." – Robert Evans (16:31)

• On Manipulating History for Self-Esteem:
  "It's this obsession with ‘No, my ancestors were this thing that I think is cool...’ and it's like, everyone has ancestors who were kings, ...everyone's got a lot more ancestors who were dirt farmers." – Robert Evans (55:54)

• Describing Himmler's Awkwardness with Women:
  "He writes home to his brother: 'She wants kissing. This is so gross. If sweet young things knew how they worried us, they would no doubt try not to.'" – Robert Evans (70:10)

Key Timestamps

• 05:22–09:00 – Himmler’s childhood diary entries, early attitudes toward war and propaganda.
• 12:10–13:46 – Childhood empathy, racism toward Russians, and evolution into bigotry.
• 15:23–17:30 – Obsessions with fitness, self-discipline, echoes of modern bro “wellness”/masculinity culture.
• 23:45–26:00 – Failing to enter elite combat units, contrasted with brother’s success.
• 27:25–28:43 – Complaint-laden care package letters (petulance).
• 35:39–38:48 – Embrace of the “stabbed in the back” myth, resentment, and exclusion from military after WWI.
• 45:10–53:27 – Reading volkish propaganda, descent into conspiracy and anti-Semitism.
• 58:00–60:44 – Fraternity life, masochistic scar culture, childish pursuit of legitimacy.
• 65:49–69:52 – Rising anti-Semitism, awkward encounters and perceptions about women.
• 74:33–76:11 – Idolizing occultist Guido von List, the foundation for Nazi mythos.

Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent but deeply researched—a balance of humor and gravity.
• Frequent asides connecting historical patterns to modern politics and online culture.
• Willingness to draw psychological parallels and social commentary, but grounded by frequent direct quotations and primary source references.

Conclusion & Tease for Next Episode

The episode ends with Himmler college-aged, still obsessed with belonging, masculinity, and grandiose myths. His growing fascination with volkish and occultist ideas, combined with political disillusionment and personal insecurity, sets a clear trajectory toward his future infamy. The hosts signal that the next installment will delve deeper into the dark roots of Nazi spirituality and the characters who shaped Himmler’s esoteric worldview.

[Listen to Part Three for further exploration into Himmler’s transformation and the origins of Nazi occultism.]