Part Two: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Behind the Bastards
Episode: Part Two: How Jeffrey Epstein Helped Build the Modern World
Date: February 19, 2026
Host: Robert Evans with guest co-host Andrew T
Producer: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the underreported but significant influence Jeffrey Epstein wielded over the development of major elements of the modern digital world, especially microtransactions in video games and the world of cryptocurrency. Through newly released emails and justice department documents, host Robert Evans, with guest Andrew T, unpacks Epstein’s close relationships with tech and finance figures like Bobby Kotick (Activision Blizzard), Brock Pierce (crypto entrepreneur), and Joi Ito (MIT Media Lab). The episode draws a disturbing throughline from Epstein’s criminal activities and worldview to his strategic manipulation of gaming and crypto industries, revealing how one of history’s worst people seeded trends that affect billions today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Humanizing Detail of Monsters (04:34)

• Robert Evans begins by noting the unsettling banality of some of Epstein’s correspondence, including affectionate nicknames for victims and associates—reminders that even the most notorious people have mundane, relatable habits.
• Epstein’s grooming of underage girls and the transactional, casual tone of emails between him and his contacts, especially Brock Pierce, offer a chilling look at how normalized their crimes were within their circles.
  • Quote: “Epstein started sending girls...since the term girls was used in the email and this is Jeffrey Epstein, we must assume they were underage kids...” — Robert Evans [04:34]

2. The Dynamics of Epstein’s Network: Brock Pierce, Bobby Kotick, and Grooming (05:32–11:30)

• Emails indicate Epstein “transitioning” associates like Brock Pierce from being recipients of trafficked girls to acting as recruiters and providers in their own right.
• Epstein’s relationship with Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick evidenced a confluence of predatory behavior and tech influence.
  • Woody Allen was used as social “bait” to attract other powerful men.
  • Quote: “He seems to think [Woody Allen] is like a big get...Maybe if I sweeten the pot with Woody Allen, this rich, famous guy will want to hang out with me.” — Robert Evans [11:03]
• The comparison is made between their attitude towards sex crimes and drug use—illegal but not “morally wrong” in their eyes.

3. Epstein's Influence on Video Game Industry and Microtransactions (13:52–24:36)

• Epstein pushed Kotick to expand microtransactions in gaming, directly influencing some of the most controversial monetization tactics in the industry.
• In a rare, grammatically correct extended email, Epstein lays out a vision for using games to addict children and deliver “educational subversion”:
  • Encouraging games that bypass educators and parents, targeting children directly for profit and indoctrination.
  • Quote: "Edutainment is for pussies. Because once kids catch on you are trying to teach them something, they shut down. We have to keep the boobs and guns and profit...We need educational subversion." — Robert Evans quoting Epstein [21:01]
• Bobby Kotick’s own responses show enthusiastic buy-in, discussing rewards systems (“earn cell phone minutes, iPhone credits, virtual items in games”) that parallel the now-ubiquitous dark patterns in monetization.
• The hosts connect these tactics to modern problems: gambling-like features, loot boxes, dark patterns, and the normalization of predatory monetization aimed at children.

4. Epstein, Cryptocurrency, and the Genesis of Tether (29:09–39:38)

• Epstein’s connection with Brock Pierce extends into the early days of crypto. Evans provides the “Mount Gox” story as cautionary farce and context.
• Epstein is involved with Pierce’s stablecoin project "Tether," a foundational entity in the current crypto ecosystem—fraught with regulatory violations, money laundering, and more.
  • Quote: “This further establishes Epstein as a foundational figure in the history of crypto because Tether as I noted, is a very significant cryptocurrency.” — Robert Evans [35:55]
• Epstein’s role is less technical and more about facilitating, connecting, and “pitching” to influential financial players.

5. Epstein’s Investment in Coinbase and Normalization in Tech Circles (40:11–41:41)

• Epstein invested early in Coinbase, helping broker deals through Pierce despite full awareness of his criminal record.
• The founders were alerted to Epstein’s involvement, but allowed it, highlighting an industry-wide moral blindness when money or connections are concerned.

6. Russian Connection, “Modeling” Agencies, and Soft Power (43:57–45:27)

• The episode touches on Epstein’s ties via intermediaries to Russian intelligence, foregrounded by the example of Svetlana Pozydova, who was allegedly deployed to mine or influence the Winklevoss twins’ business ventures.
• This possibility is left somewhat open-ended, but fits a pattern of international soft power games.

7. Epstein’s Influence on Bitcoin Development via MIT Media Lab (48:59–59:27)

• Detailed breakdown of how Joi Ito (MIT Media Lab) secured Epstein funds to pay three of the five core Bitcoin developers after the prominent Bitcoin Foundation went bankrupt.
  • Quote: "[Epstein's funding] allowed us to move quickly and win this round. Thanks." — Joi Ito, as read by Robert Evans [51:58]
• The chain of association: Epstein → MIT Media Lab → Funding for Bitcoin’s core code, representing a significant (if not absolute) stake in the direction of the currency's development.
• Right-wing and crypto circles now find themselves torn: horrified that “their” revolution might be tainted by Epstein money or influence, but desperate to downplay the connection.
  • Quote: "Funding a university lab does not equal running bitcoin...But when you pay the salary of three out of five people whose votes can determine the future of bitcoin, it's not unreasonable to say you might kinda run bitcoin, right?" — Robert Evans [57:07]

8. The Banality of Modern Evil and Final Thoughts (60:41–62:22)

• Even without the sex trafficking, Epstein’s role as an “idea guy” aligns him with some of the most toxic evolutions in digital monetization and finance.
  • Quote: “He would be an odious person genuinely, without the sex trafficking.” — Andrew T [60:41]
• These patterns—using technical platforms for manipulation, profit, and grooming—are entrenched in social systems far beyond Epstein.
• The episode closes with the insight that only recently has Epstein’s influence in these domains begun to get the scrutiny it deserves.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Epstein started sending girls... since the term girls was used in the email and this is Jeffrey Epstein, we must assume they were underage kids..." — Robert Evans [04:34]
• "They don't talk about it like we're doing a secret criminal enterprise. They talk about it like dudes talking about a hot chick at college. Except for the chick is 30 years younger than them." — Robert Evans [09:46]
• "Edutainment is for pussies. Because once kids catch on you are trying to teach them something, they shut down. We have to keep the boobs and guns and profit... We need educational subversion." — Robert Evans quoting Epstein [21:01]
• "He would be an odious person genuinely, without the sex trafficking." — Andrew T [60:41]
• "When you pay the salary of things, three out of five people whose votes can determine the future of bitcoin, it's not unreasonable to say you might kinda run bitcoin, right?" — Robert Evans [57:07]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:34 – Epstein’s emails, “my little Susie,” leveraging relationships with Brock Pierce
• 07:19–09:08 – Attitudes toward sex trafficking (“like doing drugs” in their moral calculus)
• 10:04–13:52 – Relationship with Bobby Kotick and attempts to influence video game monetization
• 13:52–24:36 – Epstein’s play to ‘addict’ kids to games, the lineage of dark monetization patterns
• 29:09–39:38 – Epstein’s role in crypto: Mt. Gox, Tether stablecoin origins, early pitfalls
• 40:11–41:41 – Epstein’s investment in Coinbase, industry indifference to his criminality
• 43:57–45:27 – Modeling agencies, Russian intermediaries, potential intelligence links
• 48:59–59:27 – MIT Media Lab, funding Bitcoin’s developers, awkward crypto community reckonings
• 60:41–62:22 – Epstein’s harmful legacies extend beyond his sex crimes

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Tone and Language

The episode is marked by gallows humor and the hosts’ signature blend of irreverence and outrage. Despite the heaviness of the material, Evans and Andrew T lampoon the idiocy and banality of tech and finance elites who enabled Epstein—not shying from blunt, sometimes scathing, sometimes darkly funny commentary.

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Final Takeaway

The hosts make clear that Epstein’s story is not just one of criminal depravity but a window into how power, greed, and indifference have warped fundamental aspects of modern digital life. From the “addict the kids” ethos in games to shady financial systems in crypto, Epstein's fingerprints help explain why so much of today’s tech world feels so broken—and why it is so difficult to hold its architects accountable.

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Resources/Pluggables Mentioned:

• Artist Mentorship Program, Portland
• Solidarity and Snacks (mutual aid, Los Angeles)
• Andrew T’s podcast: “Yo, Is This Racist?”

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(Summary skips sponsor ad reads and typical podcast intro/outro banter, focusing solely on episode substance.)

Transcript

[Robert Evans]

Call Zone Media.

Ah. Welcome pod, to behind the Bastard cast episodes. Epstein. Jeffrey, I'm Robert Evans. Hi. How are you doing?

[Andrew T]

Andrew T. I like that you said the last sentence in syntactical order.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. It's upsetting, isn't it?

[Andrew T]

Evans, Robert. Am I.

[Robert Evans]

What am I up to? What's my plan? You know, what's my ultimate goal? What am I working towards here, here by doing this? I don't know, Andrew T. I just don't know. How are you?

[Andrew T]

I'm okay. I just ate the top half of a tomato and I actually feel pretty energized.

[Robert Evans]

Best half of a tomato, to be honest. Like the bottom half of a tomato. That's for chumps. Idiots. Really? Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Stem side. You gotta nibble around the stem.

[Robert Evans]

Gotta nibble the stem, baby. I'm always saying that. That's why that's my motto, baby. Nibble the stem. You know, no stem. You put it on T shirts. That's right. Wow, Andrew, where can people find you on the Internet? Before we get into our episodes for today, where we continue the tale of Jeffrey Epstein. Birthing the modern world, man. Birthing the modern world.

[Andrew T]

Thanks. I guess I don't know Andrew T. On social media, but I do. Yo, is this racist? The podcast and we have our premium [e-mail] which are fun. We've been doing one called Starter Track, which is really fun. A little slightly insider look at Starter. Star Trek.

[Robert Evans]

I love it.

[Andrew T]

Tawny Newsom knows everything about Star Trek. She writes on Starfleet Academy. She was the voice of Beckett, Mariner.

[Robert Evans]

Other stuff, I think Keeper of the flame. Well, I also want to send people somewhere. The Artist Mentorship program in Portland helps primarily youth experiencing homelessness get essential supplies and job training and have music and art programs at the heart of their work. If you want to support the good things that they do and have done for more than 30 years, go to amppdx.org that's amppdx.org okay. That's all that.

[Andrew T]

Robert, I appreciate the chance to plug before all the heinous shit gets said.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes.

You like the separation?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

It's important to plug before the heinous shit gets said because people are going to feel markedly less good about the world once we continue talking about Jeffrey Epstein creating all of the bullshit that you deal with on a daily basis as a person in society. Sorry about that. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed. Human

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[Andrew T]

Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?

[Robert Evans]

Yep.

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[Andrew T]

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[Robert Evans]

Wow.

[Andrew T]

Way to go. So about that picture frame.

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Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.

[Robert Evans]

Car Selling made easy on Carvana Pickupies Nailed.

I. So Part two One of the frustrating things about delving into the Epstein files is that you are repeatedly confronted by the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was a person. And like any person, he had nicknames for people and words that he used in an idiosyncratic fashion that only his friends in his social circle fully understood. Everyone's like this, but it's weird to be confronted by these very human aspects of the life of a monster. More pointedly, it's frustrating because it means there's a lot that we'll never fully understand, right? For example, Epstein started sending girls. And again, since the term girls was used in the email and this is Jeffrey Epstein, we must assume they were underage kids to Brock. Or at least there's a good chance they were to Brock. One of these girls Epstein described as my little Susie or Sue in emails he Sent during the spring of 2012.

Ew.

I don't think we have a great idea of who this was yet. I haven't figured. At least my clumsy searching around did not figure out who sue was. And given that she's probably a victim, we. I don't know that it's. We need to look too hard into this, but she grew very close to Brock Pierce, or at least that's the way Epstein and Brock's emails portray it. And Epstein asked regularly after Brock's relationship with sue with the kind of interest that makes me think that because he connected them, maybe Epstein saw Sue as his in to Brock, who he considered a valuable contact. Right. Maybe it was a situation where Epstein, quote unquote, discovered this girl, however old she actually is, sends her to Brock, they become close, and Epstein is curious about this relationship because it's his leverage, basically. Right. Pierce, though, seems to have valued Epstein as well. On May 1st of 2012, he messaged Jeffrey saying, I know a girl in New York you may like, how should I introduce you? And then Jeffrey's like, basically like, you know, you can send me her Facebook or whatever. And so he sends her, he gives her a name and asks like, hey, can you check her out on Facebook? And Jeffrey just replies, cute. So great. You know, like, this just gives you kind of an insight into how things worked. Right. This is. Brock has, it seems, graduated from being the kind of person that Jeffrey just supplies with girls to being the kind of person who is connecting Jeffrey to girls. Right. Which is an evolution of their relationship. Again, I don't know how old this person is, but he does use the word girl, so. So it's not legally questionable to wonder. Right.

[Andrew T]

It's also like this thing where it's so like. Cause you start to also kind of get the sense that, I mean, on some level, they knew what they were doing was wrong, but it doesn't feel

[Robert Evans]

like they're not done. They knew it was illegal. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they knew it was wrong in a morals. They certainly don't believe it. But they know that if people find out, they could get in trouble with about a lot of what they're doing. Right. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

They don't seem to consider what they're doing to be wrong.

[Robert Evans]

No. They think they treat sex trafficking of underage girls the way I think normal people treat. Like doing drugs. Right.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Where, like, it's illegal. You want to be a little careful about it because you could get in trouble if you get caught. But you're not judging Your friend because they do acid once a year or take mushrooms occasionally. Right, right. That's. That's very much how they treat it. Right, Right. So a month after this email chain where Brock sends Epstein this girl's Facebook page, Pierce told Epstein that he was taking a trip to Moscow, Kyiv and Odessa, because that was an itinerary you could have back in 2012. Epstein asked him to take photos and find me a present. And Pierce replied, will do. And then a smiley face. And those photos are photos of girls. And the present is girls. Right. Several days later, Pierce replied with more than a dozen images of what I. We have to. I believe we're naked young women. Or at least scantily clad young women. It's a little clear to me because of how, you know, the email is preserved. But he sends these photos with the sentence, the Ukraine is now my favorite country. Smiley face. Right. Just Ukraine. But I don't know, I feel like when you're. The Sex trafficking is. I shouldn't be a pedant about language here.

No, fuck them all.

And again, we don't know that this is sex trafficking. I don't know what age these people are. You know, it's just gross. Brock is both being provided by Epstein and also providing to at this point. Right.

Ew.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Which gives you an idea of how a lot of his relationships function. We're talking about him and Pierce, but he had a number of famous dudes who he had similar relationships with, where it presumably starts with him feeding them women, but they also, you know, push people his way. Right. That's how a lot of this certainly functions.

[Andrew T]

Like this, like low rent frat house shit where you're like.

[Robert Evans]

Right, right, exactly. And they talk about it that way, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

They don't talk about it like we're doing a secret criminal enterprise. They talk about it like dudes talking about a hot chick at college. Except for the chick is 30 years younger than them. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And they met her because Gill and Maxwell Spider outside of a high school or something. I don't know. Yeah.

Ew.

It's gross. Also in 2012, Epstein continued to gather influence in the world of video games. He started emailing regularly with Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick. Actually, it may have been earlier than this. We don't know exactly how long he and Bobby were in regular contact. The emails show at least as far back as November of 2012, which is in that month Kotick visited New York. But they had been friends previously. Right. We know the two planned to meet in person during that November 2012 trip. And we know that Epstein even tempted Kotick to come a day earlier by saying, hey, if you show up early, you can hang out with Woody Allen. Ew. Oh, boy. Well, I'm on board. Who doesn't want to hang with Woody Allen?

[Andrew T]

I mean, look, at least these guys morality is consistent.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Nightmare. The first time I saw Woody in one of these, I had a moment of freak out. I was like, oh, God, is it Woody Harrelson? That would really bum me out. And it's like, oh, no, Woody Allen exists. It's gotta be Woody Allen, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

And it is. It is Woody Allen. What's interesting to me is that Epstein brings up Woody Allen other times. Right. Like when he's talking with Elon Musk and he's trying to convince Elon Musk to hang out one Christmas. He also brings out like, Woody Allen's gonna be there. It could be you and me and Woody Allen partying together. So he seems to think this is like a big get for a lot. Like, this is. Maybe if I sweeten the pot with Woody Allen, this rich, famous guy will want to hang out with me.

[Andrew T]

I mean, to be fair, Manhattan is basically what these guys are trying to aspire to, like, at all times.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Manhattan are fucking. I mean, I don't. We don't need to talk about Woody Allen movies. So that said, Kotek. And again, we can. We know they were emailing regularly in 2012. Kotak is connected to Epstein for quite a while longer than that. We have a 2004, April of 2004 email between him and Gillan Maxwell where he's talking about Gillan's sexy body. So they. The two of them seem to have had an affair of some sort, which at least Gillan's an adult. So I don't know. Bobby, you get the maybe had sex with an adult while hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein award, which is not much of an award. Bobby Kotick, not much of an award. Still. Ew. The most significant aspect of Kotick and Epstein's friendship was that Jeffrey used his influence over Bobby to push for more microtransactions in video games. He's really trying to convince Bobby this is the future of gaming. Right. Bobby's already convinced of this, but Epstein's further piling on. Right. And is trying to encourage some specific ways that this should develop. I don't mean to say that, like, Epstein introduced the idea to Bobby Kotick. He's the kind of soulless ghoul who would always have loved this thing and was pushing for it previously. But Epstein is trying to shift him in specific directions as. As relates to this stuff. On May 2nd of 2013, Kotick asked Epstein for advice ahead of a meeting with New York City Department of Education Chancellor Joel Klein. Specifically, he asked if Epstein knew of any edutainment games that were doing it. Right. And what I assume was happening here is that as CEO of Activision Blizzard, he's meeting with the Department of New York City Education Chancellor to see if, like, can we make a deal about, like, providing educational games to the school system in New York. Right. Like, that's probably the reason for this. And again, because I can't say directly, here is how Epstein influenced how Kotick felt about microtransactions. Here's what he introduced to the industry. I don't have a clear thing for that, but what I can say is Bobby Kotick valued Epstein's opinions enough that he asks him for advice ahead of a meeting like this, and he listens when Epstein tells him what he thinks should be happening with this stuff, which suggests Epstein is influencing the development of microtransactions in gaming to some level. Right. Not the. Not the main. But he's one of the dominoes there, right?

Yeah. And with Kotick, this is like, if we're in 2013. He got divorced in 2012. This before he starts publicly dating Sheryl Sandberg.

Yes, it is.

But this is just, like, an interesting

timeline for this, from Gillan Maxwell to Sheryl Sandberg. What a fascinating romantic life this man's had.

Yeah, he's just a disturbing, weird little guy.

[Andrew T]

Did you repost on Blue sky something about, like. Or maybe you're gonna get to this about, like, one of the reasons is to, like, indoctrinate kids into, like.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes, yes, we're talking about all that right now. So Kotick emails him being like, do you have any suggestions for this meeting with this guy from the Department of Education, New York. And Epstein says, you should play Medal of Honor or Call of Duty and then, quote, you will learn war history. Right. Basically saying video games are already great at teaching kids about war, which they're not. I don't think people learn a lot of accurate war history from Call of Duty or Medal of Honor. Some stuff. Sure.

[Andrew T]

Well, they certainly learned that the two equal sides are the Allies and the Germans. Morally fine. To be on either side.

[Robert Evans]

You have to play either. Right. Now, what's interesting to me about this is that Epstein's initial response, like, just play either of these video games, and you can learn war history games are great at teaching kids stuff. That's kind of like the throwaway response you expect from Epstein. But what follows is really unique because after that initial line he writes out like a five paragraph essay laying out his thoughts on this subject. And this is not a normal response for Jeffrey. The biggest difference from his normal correspondence is that nearly every word in this essay is spelled properly and the grammar is mostly correct. It's very weird. Like you, you, you see dozens, hundreds of emails of him where he's just like spelling like a dipshit. And then you see this like almost a page of writing that's like well formatted and like, I don't know if someone else wrote it for him.

[Andrew T]

Right? He like copy pasted from a white paper.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, he clearly had a document, but it sounds like idiosyncratic, like it's in his voice. If he had someone else type it up. I don't know, it's weird. And in this essay, Epstein argues that video games are, quote, already great at teaching and then expresses something almost identical to how pro AI people argue. Chatbots are going to revolutionize education. Fundamentally. The thing that works is a one to one student teacher ratio. Even if you have a shitty teacher or tutor, you will learn a lot because that person gets to know you and challenges you at your level. That doesn't scale, but computers do. So we have to use computers to replace teachers or at least augment them. Thank you, Jeffrey. Thanks for seeding that into society. No, but no, it's interesting to see like this is, you know, years later going to be a decade or so later going to be what like all of the AI bros are saying about education. And it's interesting to see Jeffrey land of the same spot in like 2012.

[Andrew T]

Well, but also because that's largely just the right wing thing is like, who cares?

[Robert Evans]

Gotta get rid of teachers.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, get rid of teachers. Give your people the dumbest, most uninformative thing. It's fine.

[Robert Evans]

And he's not talking about this, but you have to think again. Epstein's angry. He's been judged by, you know, what he believes is a prudish society for something that he shouldn't be punished for. He's angry and he probably sees to a degree the education system and the things it's taught women as being responsible for his woes. So I suspect there's more than a little. Well, we can, if we do this, then we have control of the computers that are teaching kids and thus the things that they learn. Right?

[Andrew T]

But do you think it's that? Because that's the thing that I sometimes have trouble with is like. Well, yeah, but it's. Or I guess what I mean is like that nefarious. But not because they're so dumb and not detail oriented otherwise that I have trouble squaring like this grand vision and actually pulling it off. I guess maybe it's that. Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

It's less of a grand because, you know, Epstein isn't the guy making this stuff. He's just kind of talking to people who will be owning the companies that own it about what he. How he wants to see it used. Right. Right. And I don't think Epstein's not engaged in a cohesive plot with a bunch of other rich guys to destroy education. I think he just sees this as beneficial and a better way to do society. Right. And I think part of why he sees it is that like, he doesn't like or respect a lot of current people in this. Yeah. Who are doing this job. Right. And I, you know what.

[Andrew T]

And I guess like the vision versus the execution is what. Like that's what ice is. Ice is the vision and the execution of that vision, which is shoddy.

[Robert Evans]

And he's, he's just kind of got. And he's talking with his other rich friend because he's, he's. And he's an idea guy. Right. That's Epstein's whole. Whole brand. So he goes on in this essay to say that the real issue is that today's. With educational games is that today's video games just don't try to teach stuff we care about. And it's unclear who we is. I think he's referring to we as in like people like you and me, Bobby, like smart rich guys care about. Quote, the best scheme I've come up with so far is to use the X Prize or something like it to co opt the existing video game industry. You want to skip convincing educators and parents about this stuff and just go straight for the kids.

Ew.

I mean, I guess get him a dick. To be. To be fair. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Not. Not that this is a good use, but the. Probably one of the least sinister uses of go straight for the kids, Jeffrey Epstein is.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yes. This is. Yeah. Right.

[Andrew T]

But grading on a curve. This is

[Robert Evans]

because as soon as he says you want to skip convincing parents and teachers, just go straight for the kids by making a game that gets them addicted, then Epstein provides his own suggestion for like what an educational game might look like. And he suggests a game that would teach a player how to read and pronounce Japanese kanji. Imagine you are looking at a door in a video game. It has some squiggly symbols printed on it. Little munchkins walk up to that door and say, konnichiwa. The door opens and they are greeted by a hot princess with big tits and a thong. The door closes in your face. You are going to fucking learn to read and pronounce kanji. That's.

[Andrew T]

But that's why I'm like, they're so dumb. I just can't believe we're ruled by these.

[Robert Evans]

Fuck. There's the. There's the. The line between. I'm not saying Jeffrey Epstein controlled all of this as the puppet master, but he had a lot of ideas that he helped to seed in powerful people who then took those ideas further. And also, the way he thinks about all this shows you how the ruling class thinks, thought about and thinks about all this stuff and was talking about it, and he influenced that. Right.

[Andrew T]

I mean, to me, it's just like all these unfuckable dweebs finally, like, forced their way into some sex through violence and coercion, and now they want to impress the man.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, well, and the fucking. The whole. You see, Just like, the fact that women don't really matter to him is made very evident just in the fact that he's like, yeah, hot princess, big tits and a thong. That'll teach him how to read kanji. Little girls kind of being enticed. I have issues believing this would work on boys, but, like, are they going to want the big titted, hot princess Jeffrey in this game for schools that you want to put in school? Ew. Epstein then concludes, edutainment is for pussies. Because once kids catch on you are trying to teach them something, they shut down. We have to keep the boobs and guns and profit. You see how much money video games are making these days? Fuck educational reform. We need educational subversion. And what he's saying here is that, like, this stuff, you don't want to make educate. You want to make games that get kids addicted. And you teach them and push messages through the games that they're playing while also profiting off of them. And the way to do that is make games that they are addicted to playing that are compulsively, like, attractive to them. Right. Your goal is to subvert the educational system. You're almost saying we want these games to teach kids a separate set of things than they're learning in school and society. Right. You want to think about, like, how gaming Culture has been used by guys like Bannon who were attached to Epstein. You can see some really direct through lines here, Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now, after Epstein goes on this very weird rant, Bobby Kotick doesn't respond, are you fucking crazy? Instead he responds, x Prize is a good idea, but key is real world rewards. Learn to read, earn cell phone minutes, iPhone credits, virtual items and games. And that's a funny email in its own right. Futurist Pablo Holman, who's looped in Epstein, loops Pablos into this conversation. And Pablo responds with just a dig at Bobby Kotek, saying, I'm all for indoctrinating kids into an economy. You gotta love how his example for real world rewards is virtual items and games.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Which is. I mean, Pablos, you're. You're tied to Jeffrey Epstein forever now. So that's shameful, but that is a pretty good dick.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, Bobby Kotick is a dummy.

[Andrew T]

These emails, like, every time you don't respond only with, what the fuck are you guys talking about?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. What the fuck is wrong with you, you dipshit? Yeah. And Holman is obviously correct that Kotick is a visionless slug of a man who ruined at least one great company. These emails were sent just a few weeks after the launch of Call of Black Ops 2, the first call of Duty game to feature microtransact, per an article in the Gamer by James Lucas. Call of Duty Ghosts, which launched later that year, went even further with paid special characters, voiceover packs, skins, camo, and even weapons. It's not hard to draw a line between these conversations with Epstein and industry figures and the sudden boom in microtransactions that occurred around the same time period. But what's most concerning is the apparent interest to normalize aggressive monetization strategies towards younger audiences, as suggested in remarks made by Epstein's associates in the DOJ documents. And Epstein, again, he doesn't invent the idea of microtransactions in children's games. Bobby's thinking about this before Epstein starts talking about it, but Epstein is influencing his thoughts on it. And Epstein is talking a lot about how we need to normalize using games to deliver propaganda to kids by addicting them. Right. That, like, the fact that the game is addictive and has the guns and the tits and, you know, makes money is part of, like, what keeps the kid paying attention and what allows you to influence them with the content and the game. And this is a big part of the modern microtransaction industry. Right. Like, what we ultimately landed on is Fuck teaching kids anything. Just get them hooked. Like get them, get them playing games where they're going to be sending money regularly and gambling for stuff like loot boxes. Right.

[Andrew T]

And it's, it's also like that most of these are built on whales. Like, it isn't broadly the kids. It's like the unfortunate. I don't know what is it like 4 or 5% somewhere in there who are like paying for everything else and more?

[Robert Evans]

No, but it is. I mean, the fact that these are present in the games, even though most of the money isn't coming from random little, it still affects them. Right? Yeah. Researchers from the Australian Consumer Policy research center, the CPRC and Monash University in 2016 identified 20 dark patterns of monetization in modern games, the worst of which were gambling like features such as paid loot boxes like the ones Bobby Kotick helped push at Activision Blizzard. Per an investigation by ABC Australia, quote, the design features were not in all games, but 95% of adult players surveyed had come across them. At 83% had suffered negative consequences. So this is a harmful industry and it's one that, you know, Jeffrey is a cheerleader for. Again, he's not the founder of it, but he's one of the, he's one of the dominoes here. Today, the global online microtransaction market is worth more than $75 billion a year. As Epstein said, we have to keep the boobs and guns in profit. Right. An article in the BBC by Katherine Latham makes the end result of all this very clear. Gaming companies use behavioral psychology to manipulate users into spending, says Professor Sarah Mills. And the link between gaming and gambling is becoming increasingly blurred, she explains. Ms. Mills is a professor of human geography at Loughborough University. Her research found gambling techniques make gamers play for longer and spend more money and drive repeat buying. And we could go on from here to discuss the outrageous proliferation of gambling apps for young people and how companies like Activision Blizzard paved the way for shit like Kalshee. Right. And Epstein is a piece of that story. Right. But that's also getting us all away from the Epstein of it, because this is stuff that's largely occurred since the end of his life. Right, Right. I think we've done enough to establish how harmful this trend is and that Jeffrey was a prominent voice urging to go down this road and urging developers at a high level talking to the C suites. Right. I should also note that Epstein and Kotick's friendship went deeper than just work related conversations. These aren't just guys who are talking shop. Per Okotaku article by Ethan Gatch, emails between the two were allegedly exchanged multiple times in 2013 as well. A February 24, 2013 email stated that Epstein was in LA planning a visit to SpaceX that week and was trying to link up with Kotick while in town. Thanks, but rather see you, Epstein wrote in one email. Taking girls after to Bel Air. Kotick at one point allegedly wrote back, come with your friends to my house, Beverly Hills, 10 minutes from Bel Air. Great.

[Andrew T]

Also, this is an insane thing to put in an email.

[Robert Evans]

Dude, it's crazy. Gotta hang out with elon Musk at SpaceX before taking my girls to the CEO of Activision Blizzard's house.

[Andrew T]

And again, notably, Elon's not invited, right?

[Robert Evans]

Elon's oh, I mean, you don't want him at the good parties. You know, you don't want him and Bobby Kotick in a room at the same time. That's just too much cool. You know who else is cool? Me. Some would say sure, of course. Sophie yes, Andrew T. Sure. Andrew T. I'm okay. And also the sponsors of this podcast,

Evans comma Robert

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[Robert Evans]

And we're back. You know we're talking Jepstein Jeffrey Epstein so Epstein's friendship with Brock Pierce continued along a similar tenor to his friendship with Bobby Kotick. In May of that year, Peirce told Epstein that he had plans to purchase what was at the time the largest bitcoin exchange on Earth, Mount Gox. Now this is a side story from a larger, much Funnier story, because Mt. Gox was for years the place to go if you were new to crypto and looking to get into it, right? If you wanted to get started With Bitcoin or whatever. Mount Gox is probably where you were starting. And Mount Gox got its name from its original purpose, which was it was a place to sell and trade the Gathering cards. Mount Gox stands for the Gathering Online Exchange. Right. They started going by Mount Gox when the slightly more sensible libertarian crypto enthusiasts pointed out that like hey, regular people don't want to store their life savings at a business run by people who sell magic cards for a living. Right? Like that's not really like a bank. It doesn't give banks.

[Andrew T]

It could have been called the Chaos Orb. So I guess it could be worse.

[Robert Evans]

Could have been called the Chaos Orb. Yeah, I mean we're further along on our decline now. Per an article on the website produst.com by Cas Piance's Epstein, who was unfamiliar with the exchange, asked if it had been seized by the US government. It hadn't. The purchase had never occurred. And In April of 2014 it was revealed that Mount Gox had lost the majority of its users money. All of the money in Mount Gox gets stolen, right? The whole bank gets stolen. Because again, the magic. The Gathering Online Exchange is a bad place to keep your savings.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah. It's fine though. Not regulated. No fdic.

[Robert Evans]

Not at all regulated, baby. We don't need an fdic.

[Andrew T]

We don't need that. That's big government.

[Robert Evans]

We'll talk about why that's funny. But what's funny immediately here is that even after the whole bank gets stolen, Pierce doesn't give up acquiring Mount Gox. He tries after it collapses to buy it. And he starts this initiative called GOX Rising, which like why are you tied to the magic, the Gathering bank that got that, lost everything. Why are you invested in continuing that journey, Brock? Oh God, is it just the name Mount Gox is so appealing to you? I don't get it.

[Andrew T]

I mean, look, brand recognition. You know, half the battle, the brand

[Robert Evans]

recognition is that place that lost everyone's money.

[Andrew T]

But yeah, but not anymore. Yeah, we couldn't possibly lose it twice.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, it happened twice. That's crazy. So you should. The fact that Pierce still thinks this is a good idea should tell you something about Pierce. And the fact that Epstein continues to treat this kid as a genius should let you know that Jeffrey Epstein was not nearly as intelligent as he gets credited with being sometimes.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

The same month Brock started trying to buy Mt. Gox, Epstein reaches out to his friend Bill Gross, who is the co founder of a major investment management company, Pimco, about an exciting new Crypto project that Brock was working on and this is the project that he gets involved with really after Mount Gox and it's called Tether. Have you ever heard of the cryptocurrency Tether?

[Andrew T]

Yes, I think I have some. I don't remember why.

[Robert Evans]

It's, it's prominent people know about it and the, the idea behind Tether, you brought up the FDIC earlier that like oh, the whole bank stolen. Maybe that's a good idea that the regular financial system had. Tether is Brock, I mean Brock is one of the guys behind Tether. Tether is kind of the attempt to add sort of an FDIC type deal to crypto. It doesn't work the way the FDIC does, but the idea is it's a way to make cryptocurrency less dangerous and volatile. Right. Tether is what's called, supposed to be a stable coin. That's the idea, I should say.

[Andrew T]

I think the only reason I have any cryptocurrency is to play quasi legal international digital poker of course.

[Robert Evans]

Andrew.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So the idea behind Tether is that it's what's called a stablecoin. Normal crypto is way too volatile to be a good store of value. Right. Like you don't want to store your siblings into something that could be worth zero tomorrow. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Tether was ostensibly pegged to the US dollar. And so basically the idea is that like it's backed up by real money. Right. So we can't, it can't become worth nothing. And as a result Tether is today the most successful and the largest stablecoin. But the fact that what it's supposed to be and what it actually is are two different things. Because the idea is that Tether is pegged to the dollar but that's not even even on its face real because Tether is meant to actually be 50% backed by cash or cash equivalents. Right? Now obviously banks don't have as much cash on hand as they have people with money invested in the bank or money in the bank. Right. And that's why we have the fdic. Right. If your bank goes bust, the FDIC will reimburse at least for nor again think it's up to a quarter million dollars in account or something like that. But they'll reimburse your losses. Right. The government is saying if the bank fucks up, you're not screwed as a regular person because this is an FDIC backed bank. Tether doesn't really work that way. But they're kind of trying to make people think, think that it works that way, right? That like. No, no, no. Like this is bank. Banks don't have 50% of their assets backed by cash or equivalents. Right. So Tether is actually more realistic than a bank. Right. And the reality is there have been like pseudo bank runs on Tether. And at times people behind Tether have just refused to redeem the cash value of their cryptocurrency because that's what they could do that to stop a bank run. Right. Which is also something they get to do because they're not a bank. Right. It's. You're just throwing money to some fucking freaks who are going to do what they want with it. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Some racists are holding your money, Right.

[Robert Evans]

Tether would prove though to be a very wise financial bet for Brock. The company is profitable at this moment, Right. And it's made a lot of money over the course of its lifetime. I'm sure he did very well on this. Now Brock is not the creator of the idea behind Tether. That would be a guy named J.R. willett. But he co founds the company and initially calls it Real Coin when it launches in July of 2014. In 2019, Tether surpassed Bitcoin in trading volume and it is currently tied to about half of all Bitcoin sales. Even though the Wall Street Journal has reported on Tether increasingly showing up in cases of money laundering and the financing of terrorist groups. In 2021, commodity futures trading Commission announced that Tether was not in fact fully backed by real currency, which sparked a sell off. The CFTC ordered Tether to pay $41 million for violations of the Commodity Exchange Act. Now I've left into the future past the lifespan of Jeffrey just to make it clear this was a shady business from the beginning, right? This is never a good business.

[Andrew T]

Like all this shit. Yeah, of course.

[Robert Evans]

Yes, yeah, like all of this shit. So Epstein leans into this fact right, in his email to Gross because he's trying to talk a finance guy into getting on the crypto board here. Gross is the guy who works at Pimco who he's trying to get to invest in the idea that becomes Tether. And Epstein acknowledges in this email that there are issues with cryptocurrency. The good is that Bitcoin uses an algorithm to limit supply, unlike the variable of gold or other commodities. However, two main issues. One, the government doesn't like it. Money laundering, money transmitting, aiding and abetting all types of crimes. Two, all transactions are arguably taxable and therefore extra tricky. The Bitcoin guys came to see me early in the process and made it clear they were all willing to go to jail for their ideas. I'm not there is a way to do it, but it turns the bitcoin model on its head. Talk to you soon. This is his argument for Tether. Right. But what's interesting to me in that is him saying the bitcoin guys came to see me early in the process and made it clear they were all willing to go to jail for their ideas. We know he's in touch with Gavin. We don't know who else necessarily. I mean, we'll talk later. There's other guys that bitcoin he's attached to, but this is some more evidence at least that he wants other people to think he's really, maybe he's lying about this. Right. But also we know he was talking to Gavin. We know he's in touch with a number of these guys and we know that they're talking ideologically about what this means to each other. So I don't really think this is a lie. This seems consistent with other things we have evidence of. Right. And it's further evidence that Jeffrey is an influential person in this period of development for bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole. Right. Now, obviously that doesn't mean that he was like making big final decisions on bitcoin, but it means that he's got some influence with the people doing it. Right. And there's no reason for that. As we'll talk about in 2014, Epstein helps Brock Pierce ink a deal with Noble bank to create a Puerto Rico based company that would act as the real money bank for Tether. Right. Like this is the actual bank with the, that's going to provide the cash that supposedly backs up this stablecoin. This further establishes Epstein as a foundational figure in the history of crypto because Tether, as I noted, is a very significant cryptocurrency. And Epstein, not only is he advising Pierce in the beginning stages of Tether becoming a thing, but he helps make a deal with the bank that acts as like the, the, the backing for Tether. He's important in this. Right. And this is particularly the stage of crypto development he's a part of, is not the initial stage where you have these guys like he talks about who are willing to go to jail for these weird libertarian ideas they have. Right. We don't have to, you don't have to like or respect what they see to be like, oh, a lot of these people work at Least they're believers, right? Yeah. They really wanted to weaken the power of the state and the Federal Reserve by decoupling currency from the government. Right. And that's. They were willing to go to prison for it. There are guys like that in the early history of crypto. Epstein comes in and has his influence in the stage of crypto at which it starts, slowly trying to replicate the features of the real financial system in order to achieve widespread adoption. Right. Tether is a piece of this. It's an acknowledgement that, like, this is way too volatile. Too many people are losing money. We need something that we can at least market as a safe cryptocurrency that's backed up by cash. Right. So that's what Epstein's involvement in crypto is during the period in which it's starting to take on, it's at least starting to dress up in the drag

[Andrew T]

of a real financial system, the trappings of actual money. As opposed to a.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly.

[Andrew T]

Digital lottery ticket.

[Robert Evans]

Right, right. As opposed to the thing my friends used to buy drugs in 2009 with E. Gold. Right, right. And again, part of the point, the idea behind Tether is we wanna make rich people feel comfortable to put their money into crypto. Right. So other crypto millionaires can cash out using the real money they put in. So Brock Pierce, that's. That's why you want the real money. Right. That's why Tether's valuable pyramid scheme.

[Andrew T]

The pyramid needs to be shored up at the base.

[Robert Evans]

This is safe. Put your money in. Then we cash out our holdings to get real money.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

In 2014, Epstein put $3 million of his own money into an investment in a new bitcoin trading exchange, Coinbase, founded by the Stevens brothers, Bradford and Bart. Cas Piance writes, perhaps most embarrassing about the Epstein Coinbase investment is that they knew who had put the money in there to purchase shares. As Peirce rushed to get the deal closed, he shared one awkward, hurried email with Epstein. I need permission to let the founder know who you are. Right. So Epstein is putting this money in to fund Coinbase, which is like Pierce is helping to broker, you know, this. This deal to. To provide, like, the basic funding to get Coinbase off the ground. And Pierce's, as he's communicating with the people he's working with at Coinbase, realizes Epstein is a convicted sex criminal. And if I get these people to invest in a company that he's a major investor in and I don't let them know, that could be fraud. Right. You can't Convince them to partner with you in a major venture and not let them know that one of the people funding the company is a convicted pedophile. It's kind of important, right? And Epstein gives his permission. So Brock lets the Coinbase people know that Jeffrey Epstein, who by this point it's been years since his conviction for child sex trafficking, is one of the funders. And the Coinbase people are like, yeah, it's fine with us. Right? Of course. Cool stuff. And Coinbase is the new Mount Gox. That's the big exchange people get into now when they're starting in crypto, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're, they're. Do they still have super bowl ads? I guess we'll find out.

[Robert Evans]

I don't, I don't think they're doing super bowl ads anymore. But they're still around something. Yeah, yeah, that Matt Damon run. Money ran out though. But you know who does have the money to hire Matt Damon? Not me. Sponsors of this show. Maybe us. If you, if you buy enough of the products that advertise on our show, Sophie and I might get the money to bring Matt Damon onto the show. And I know that's what all of our listeners have been clamoring for. All you dame heads out there.

[Andrew T]

Oh, I'm really, man.

[Robert Evans]

I really just want to take this as an excuse to talk about Ben Affleck's back tattoo again.

I'll always talk about Ben Affleck's back tattoo.

I know, it's great.

Let's all think about that while these ads run. We're back. And boy, I sure love Ben Affleck's back tattoo of a phoenix.

[Andrew T]

Ben aff back.

[Robert Evans]

Ben aff back. Well done.

Yeah, yeah.

That was relaxing for me, to be honest.

In June of 2004, this part's not going to be relaxing, Sophie, because In June of 2014, Jeffrey Epstein asked Brock Pierce if he knew the Winklevoss twins. Of course those weird looking fuckers show up in this. I know now the Winklevi, if you're not familiar, were the guys who allegedly Mark Zuckerberg maybe stole the Facebook idea from. And then they get hardcore into crypto after suing Mark Zuckerberg, I think several times. So they get really into crypto and like every celebrity who gets really into crypto, they're totally not a scam. Crypto product eventually get sued by the sec. Right now, thankfully, the Winklevi were intelligent enough to donate heavily to Donald Trump's reelection campaign. And per TechCrunch, also backed his family's business Ventures, which means his family's crypto grifts. So, on January 24, 2026, just a few days before I started work on these episodes, the SEC dropped their lawsuit against Gemini, the crypto exchange founded by the Winklevoss twins. Right, Cool. So I love that.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

So Piers replies that he does know the Winklevoss twins, because of course he does. And Epstein says, okay, I'm gonna send Svetlana to them to get a download of the company that they're planning to launch. Right. To get a look at the business they're starting. Svetlana. Great. Great question, Sophie. As Piancey notes, this was likely Svetlana Pozydova, who is a Russian citizen who was the daughter of a former colonel in the Red Army. Her family lives in an apartment building initially constructed for NKVD staffers. And per the New Zealand Herald, she, quote, attended a Moscow university once described as an incubator for the kgb. She joined a modeling agency as a young woman, one run by John Luc Brunel, who has been alleged to have recruited girls and women for Epstein. Right. Brunel is one of the people who is funneling young models towards Jeffrey Epstein. Svetlana claims that she was just a model interested in charitable endeavors, and Epstein had a lot of connections in that world, and so they became friends. Since Svetlana is alleged to have spent a lot of time with Prince Andrew, which he denies, and Epstein clearly connected her to other influential people, a lot of people suspect that she was a Russian agent working as a part of that government's influence operation to utilize Epstein as a clandestine source. And this may have been true. There are a number of connections to Epstein and Russian intelligence, and this. This episode isn't primarily about that stuff, but this may be one more example of it. We really don't know. But, like. Like, I don't know. Maybe Lana was.

Yeah, but maybe.

Maybe.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah.

[Andrew T]

But also, it is, like, kind of increasingly clear that, like, no matter what, like, a foreign government might want to do to us, it's pretty clear that our most powerful citizens were willing to do it anyway. So sort of just like, like, you think alleged Wendy Dang's behavior, she wakes up and he's like, they already did everything I was order to make them do well.

[Robert Evans]

And that part of the thing is that, like, this the most effective shit that the Russian government did using its influence operations worked because of how fucked up the US Is. Right. They were. They were, like, in pushing and kind of, like, fanning the flames of, like, vaccine denial and Covid denial and all this stuff. They were just standing on the shoulders of American giants who started that process here. Right.

[Andrew T]

I know you could easily see all of everyone at the. Whatever the it was, whatever the KGB is now is just like, it's. This is easy mode. This is destabilization on cheat codes, because they simply do it for you every time.

[Robert Evans]

And you just find the levers like Epstein, who have the connections, you can push people in and, you know, yeah, yeah, good stuff. Now, another fun thing that's happening at the time is that Brock's friends are being sued over the massive number of sexual assaults that are alleged to have occurred during the parties that they through. Right. So during this period of time, this is like 2014 or so, Brock emails Epstein asking if he knows a lawyer named Jeff Herman. Quote, he is suing four of my friends. Any dirt you have could prove helpful. Epstein described Herman as a very bad guy in writing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew T]

Leave a voice note at least in an email.

[Robert Evans]

And Epstein responds. Yeah, Herman's a really bad guy. He represented several of the women who were accusing me of sex crimes.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, he sounds like a bad guy.

[Robert Evans]

Cool stuff. Yeah, sounds like a bad guy, Jeff. So Brock and Jeffrey's friendship grows closer and closer over this period of time. And Epstein continues to expand his involvement into crypto separate from Brock as well. He donates extensively to the MIT Media Lab, which was run by a guy named Joy Ito. Joichi Joi Ito was born in Kyoto, Japan, on June 19, 1966. His family immigrated to Canada when he was three and then to the United States, where they ultimately settled in a suburb of Detroit. His father was a research scientist, and his mother was a secretary for an early tech company that made photovoltaic products, Ovonix. He became Timothy Leary's godson, which should tell you most of what you need to know about the social and political dynamics with which Joy Ito was raised. The company founder, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Wild shit, right? Hard hit. His child went to the company founder, Stanford Ovchinsky. Kind of adopted Ito as a protege when he was a little kid. He just sees this kid's really into, you know, technology, into code, into, like, you know, engineering and stuff. And to the extent that, like, he starts just kind of like talking with him and helping him out and coaching him, he eventually hires him to do actual work with actual scientists who, when Ito is 13 years old, Ovshinsky later claimed he was not a child in the conventional sense. And the fact that that's kind of the story for both Brock Pierce and Joy Ito is kind of interesting to me that like, these are both guys are going to be really tied to Epstein in some very shady ways involving underage people, allegedly. And they're also both guys who don't have childhoods themselves. Interesting, interesting dynamic, right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

The family maintained Ito's family maintained strong connections to their Japanese heritage and moved back to Japan when he was 14. He returns to the US after he graduates to get his computer science degree from Tufts University, which is where he meets future ebay billionaire Pierre Omidyar. Ito drops out of two different colleges ultimately because he's frustrated with the stupidity of the higher education system. Ito also becomes an influential part of the musical counterculture in Japan. He runs nightclubs in Japan, he helps to bring industrial music to the country, and he's also an angel investor in Kickstarter and Twitter, as well as a shitload of other less well known ventures like for Photopedia. He wins a I like how you're

[Andrew T]

describing the only cool person you've talked about so far.

[Robert Evans]

Unfortunately, he's not gonna stay cool for long. He wins a 2011 Lifetime Achievement Award from the Oxford Internet Institute for his achievements advocating for digital freedom. He writes a monthly column for Wired, and he is a visiting professor at Harvard. He does a lot of shit. And then on April 25th of 2015, he sends an email to Jeffrey Epstein asking for money. It was in a tight spot. So the Bitcoin foundation, which is the organization that is paying the salaries of three of the five developers for bitcoin, had just been declared bankrupt by one of its board members, right? So suddenly three of the five people who are actually developing and like furthering Bitcoin's evolution are no longer getting paid. And here's how IDO in his email describes their importance. He's sending this to Epstein. The five core developers are like Linus Torvalds of Linux. They decide what changes are made to the core code. IDO further informs Epstein that many organizations scrambled to step into the vacuum created by the foundation and take control of the developers. He puts take control in quotation marks. I don't know who he's quoting, but I do know the fact that he puts emphasis on this is extremely important because he's framing this as whoever is paying these developers has control over these developers who themselves control the future of Bitcoin. Ito continues, we moved quickly, talking to all of the various stakeholders, and the three developers decided to join the Media Lab. This is a big win for us. And he's sending this To Jeffrey, he's talking about this big win because Jeffrey made this big win possible because the money that the Media Lab uses to pay these developers comes from the Epstein Foundation. Ito asks Jeffrey for this money. Jeffrey sends him the money. And this email I've just quoted from is Ido celebrating after they basically hire these developers, buy these developers. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Ito says all the printing, the money

[Andrew T]

printing, they buy like.

[Robert Evans]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Or at least, yeah, the guy's Fort Knox. Keys to Fort Knox, maybe.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, well, or they buy like the actual money printing machine and now they can be turned to do whatever.

[Robert Evans]

And after kind of writing everything that I've, I've quoted from here, Ito emails Epstein saying, FYI, used gift funds. That's the money Epstein sent him to underwrite this, which allowed us to move quickly and win this round. Thanks. And Epstein's response to this email is just, Gavin is clever. This is Gavin Andreessen. Right. Again, very hard to say how much contact he had with Epstein, but Epstein is here responding to an email with Ito, who would have been in contact with Gavin, basically saying Gavin came up with the idea to do it. Yeah, that's kind of what he's insinuating. Right, right. And again, it suggests that he and Gavin are talking, that he and Gavin are strategizing about the future of Bitcoin as he is doing. Definitely strategizing about the future of bitcoin with Joy Ito and providing the money to pay for three of these five developers. That is significant in the history of the development of Bitcoin. Right? Yeah. Now, Patrick Riley, a minor aspiring right wing influencer who paid for a verified account on Twitter and mostly seems to shill a cryptocurrency called XRP is going to find. I don't know if he's the. I don't think he's the first guy, but he finds these documents in the Epstein files and he's going to post about them. And that post is going to cause some really interesting stuff to happen. Before we get into the post he made about this revelation, I want to give you a relevant example of the previous kind of posts that Patrick L. Reilly was making on Twitter. Right. You should just have an understanding of what kind of man this is. Sophie will have this up on video form. This is from August 10th of 2025. The unvaccinated are to people as XRP holders are to crypto. Both are of the highest quality and endured a trial that siphoned out the best of humanity. In fact, I bet the XRP community has the Highest ratio of non vaxxed in any crypto.

What a cool guy.

So that's the kind of thinker Patrick Riley is. So after the most recent Epstein disclosure, Patrick makes a post and he attaches the email chain that I had been quoting from earlier to this post. And then he writes, at the time this letter was written, there were around 12,000 commits to Bitcoin's code. Today there are 47,583 commits to Bitcoin's code. This means that 74.79% of the Bitcoin core development code was committed after Jeffrey Epstein took over the de facto senior management role as benefactor. He may not have been Satoshi, but he was absolutely running the executive direction of bitcoin on behalf of Mossad. What are the odds that there are backdoors built into Bitcoin's code at this point? Pourbably about 100%. He spells it poorbably. Poor bably brain geniuses. So this sets off a wave of upset that verged on nausea from many crypto true believers. For the online right, the Epstein case is just about the most important thing on earth. But bitcoin is also hallowed. It's a sacred tool for freeing money from the clutches of the state. This post from Crypto bitlord is a relevant example of many such responses to

the not crypto Lord.

I know, I know. 75% of Bitcoin's code comes directly from Joffrey Epstein's investments. We've basically funded an elite pedophile ring since 2015. I feel sick and like, yeah, you guys got AF like, yeah, like Riley's wrong about a bunch. For one thing, there's not evidence that the fucking Mossad, that Epstein was running bitcoin on behalf of Mossad, he wasn't really running bitcoin, but he was in a position to influence it. I don't think there's not evidence that there's backdoors in bitcoin's code because you wouldn't need to. It's easy to track bitcoin. Like what would the back door even be? Right?

[Andrew T]

Also, you were funding a global pedophile ring by participating in bitcoin before Jeffrey Epstein was involved. That's the only thing it's good for.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, yeah. That's its primary purpose. So after these posts go viral, Bitcoin friendly press organs have to leap to defend their favorite coin, right? So they've got to, after fucking Patrick post this and people start freaking out over like, oh my God, refunding the pedophile cabal Jeffrey Epstein directed 75% of bit. Which also isn't really accurate. Right?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

It's just that 75% of it was written after these developers are acquired by Joy Ito's lab, which is. And that acquisition is fund. Anyway, whatever. Here's how the Bitcoin Academy website tried to smooth all this over. The funded salaries for bitcoin core developers like Vladimir Wanderland during a cash strapped period 2015 to 2017. But here's the kicker. Epstein's money flowed through MIT systems directly to developers. As one X user bluntly put it, funding a university lab does not equal running bitcoin. And this is technically true. But when you pay the salary of things, three out of five people whose votes can determine the future of bitcoin, it's not unreasonable to say you might kind of run bitcoin, right? Yeah, like it's not unreasonable to say you have influence in it. I'm not even saying he ran it, but he's in a position to influence it. Right.

[Andrew T]

And the technically true of it is like, what a, what a. Like grasp at that straw, dude.

[Robert Evans]

Like, that's okay, I guess technically, yeah. He wasn't literally guiding every step bitcoin took, but he was in a position to guide the steps he wanted to and to make, you know, and again, the only counter argument here really is you're arguing that like, well, Jeffrey Epstein probably just spent half a million dollars to get no benefit. He probably just sent that money out because he didn't want any power or influence in bitcoin. Right? Yeah, that seems likely for Jeffrey Epstein.

[Andrew T]

But also the way power works is simply by not allowing your competitor to exert influence, you have exerted influence. Like he could have literally done nothing.

[Robert Evans]

Right.

[Andrew T]

And as long as someone else that he didn't like wasn't doing something with it.

[Robert Evans]

Very good point.

[Andrew T]

That's doing a thing.

[Robert Evans]

That's doing a thing. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Now this half assed defense of bitcoin continues. Email show Ito thanked Epstein for allowing us to move quickly and hiring bitcoin talent. But let's be real, MIT's DCI was one of many funders today. Groups like Brink and the Human Rights foundation transparently support bitcoin development. Epstein's role a shady donor, not a senior manager of bitcoin. And again, this is true. And to no one's surprise, Patrick Riley's tweet was nonsense again. But Epstein is clearly influencing the development of bitcoin in the mid aughts. I don't see any other way of describing this, or at least he has influence on the men who decided how bitcoin would develop. Now, Bitcoin Academy notes that per the structure of the deal, developers were unaware of the funding source. And maybe that's true. Quick audience poll. How many listeners think Jeffrey Epstein would give up a half million dollars if he didn't think it would impact what the developers he was paying for would do? Quick poll. Right. Like, do you think that they never learned where the money came from or who they had to keep happy or.

[Andrew T]

They wouldn't, but that's the thing. It's like, like, I think these people are like, oh, there wasn't like a direct, like, meeting with. You just did it for nothing.

[Robert Evans]

You just did it for nothing. Yeah. And it's like, no, he did it because he wanted a benefit.

[Andrew T]

Yeah. There's just ways to communicate what you want.

[Robert Evans]

I know there's a degree which this is less satisfying because I can't say here's what he did specifically to influence the development of crypto. I just know that he put himself and spent a lot of money to be in a position where he could influence the development of crypto, which means he was doing fucking something. Right. And even Bitcoin Academy couldn't entirely polish this turd. The files show Epstein to cozy up to Crypto figures. In 2014, he reportedly invested in Blockstream via Joy Ito's fund. Though back clarifies Epstein had no direct or indirect ties to the company. Emails reveal Epstein pitching digital currency ideas to a Saudi advisor in 2016. But zero evidence exists of him touching bitcoin's code. His real skill, Name dropping Satoshi's associates at parties. And this is true, his real skill is name dropping famous people. But that skill has value because people know Jeffrey can connect you to influential and wealthy people and to funding, which is what allows him to influence people, including the people who guided the development of bitcoin. Wow. It's just. There's not a counter argument. Jeffrey Epstein had the opportunity to significantly influence the development of bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole. Right. It's so funny. That's what matters.

[Andrew T]

These two episodes have been weirdly like, he would be an odious person genuinely, without the sex trafficking.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. Like if he was not a pedophile, he would still be a monster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is kind of the surprising thing to me because previously I'd been like, well, obviously he was a bad guy because he was a sex trafficker. But if he hadn't done Any of the sex trafficking. I would have assumed he was just another asshole finance bro. And like. No. No, he was not, unfortunately, more influential than that.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Alas. Anyway, that's gonna do it for part two. It. Wow.

[Andrew T]

I mean, as far as these go, this has been weirdly less stomach churning than I thought. When you said we were gonna be going through the Epstein files, I will

[Robert Evans]

say in a weird way, I mean, you're not. I'm trying to focus it on what I think is an interesting journey, which is how Epstein influences the development of microtransactions in video games, of course, cryptocurrency, and of like the burgeoning far right. Which is more of what we're going to talk about in the last two episodes. I think that's really compelling. Obviously the. And we've done like four episodes on where we focus just on the sex crimes. We are. We do. We've talked about a lot of alleged sex crimes in this. Like he and Brock talking about girls and talking about girls with fucking. Right. But yeah, it's just not as much.

[Andrew T]

You know, it's just odd to me that there's so much other stuff. I guess I just. I don't know. I hadn't occurred to me, really.

[Robert Evans]

I mean, I don't. It didn't to a lot of people. You knew he was influential, but I wouldn't have guessed a lot of this stuff was going on. Right. Like, not. It's not even surprising. It's just. I wouldn't have. It's just weird for him to have had an influence here.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Like, it makes sense. Like. Oh, yeah. I get. Given the guy he was, why he got into far right stuff, why he was sharing all this racist shit that we'll talk about in the next episodes. Why he wanted to get into Bitcoin, all this stuff. It makes sense when you say it, but I just would. I didn't guess it ahead of time, you know.

[Andrew T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I think it's not surprised, but I'm like, oh, fuck. Huh?

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

I didn't call that one.

[Andrew T]

Yeah. It's an interesting angle.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah. He's the Where's Waldo of evil villain.

He's the Where's Waldo of evil pedophiles.

[Andrew T]

Kilroy.

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, he's a Kilroy type deal. Well, no one knows. Kilroy was here. Was like an early meme, but we don't really know, like, when, why, like what it was about.

[Andrew T]

Yeah.

[Robert Evans]

Oh, man.

Well.

Well, we'll have more next week for folks.

Wow. Sophie. I Do have to say you've been caught by the subreddit. Why? Breaking Sophie is not a real person. Sophie is an advanced artificial intelligence built to serve the needs of the pod. We have this confirmed. It's in the white papers. Proof. Sophie Ray Lichterman is an anagram for both AI Policeman Thresher and America's Hitler phone.

Is this actually in the song?

That's strong evidence. Sophie. I don't know. I haven't double checked. This could just be a lie. Probably is a lie. I don't know. I've done no work.

[Andrew T]

That is my favorite part about conspiracy theorists in general is the amount of time they think people doing evil stuff spend anagramming.

[Robert Evans]

The amount of importance anagrams have to the global pedophile elite is really funny.

[Andrew T]

Like, now that we see the actual correspondence of the global pedophile elite. They can't spell.

[Robert Evans]

They can't fucking spell these words. Yeah.

[Andrew T]

How are they going to do an anagram?

[Robert Evans]

Yeah, they can't. Jeffrey Epstein could barely use a keyboard.

This is actually on the subreddit. I thought you were just. There's 43 comments. Come on, guys.

I know. So. I'm sorry. I thought it was funny. God. Good stuff. Andrew, did you plug your pluggables yet?

[Andrew T]

Sure did. Starter Trek. I don't know. Thanks for having me. This is. I won't. I cannot in good conscience say it's fun to be here, but it is definitely illuminating.

[Robert Evans]

But you are here.

I have a pluggable. Touch grass.

[Andrew T]

Touch grass. You know what I should actually say? Solidarity and snacks is the mutual aid crew that I run with out here in Los Angeles. They're great folks. Solidarity and snacks. You can find them.

[Robert Evans]

Okay. All right, everybody. This has been behind the Bastards, a podcast that you just listened to. Shame on you.

Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, Visit our website, coolzone media.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com behindthebastards. We love about 40% of you. Statistically speaking,

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