Behind the Bastards: Robert and Cody Read Ben Shapiro's New Book

Podcast: Behind the Bastards (Cool Zone Media & iHeartPodcasts)
Hosts: Robert Evans & Cody Johnston
Date: October 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Robert Evans and guest Cody Johnston begin their multi-part dissection of Ben Shapiro’s latest nonfiction polemic, Lions and the True Story of America and Her Critics. With their trademark sardonic and deeply informed style, they critique the book’s shoddy logic, questionable animal metaphors, and right-wing revisionist history. Along the way, they explore Shapiro’s grandiose ambitions, his misapplication of literary references (notably CS Lewis and Tolkien), and his deeply personal animus against the cultural mainstream.

The episode is as much a critique of Ben Shapiro’s book as it is a satirical take-down of the broader culture-war mindset that animates it.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Why Ben Shapiro Writes Like This

• Shapiro’s Insecurity: Robert and Cody quickly zero in on Shapiro’s personal resentment, especially his failed aspirations in Hollywood, as the animating force behind his work.
  • "His hatred of the left, its origin in a lot of ways... is because he sees Hollywood as a fundamentally leftist institution that refused to give him the respect he deserves, that didn't recognize his brilliance." – Robert (57:52)
• Dissection of Book’s Purpose: Ben wants to position himself as a serious intellectual—aspiring to join the likes of CS Lewis—but lacks the substance and skills.

2. The Lion-Scavenger Analogy Eviscerated

• Shapiro divides society into “lions” (creators, defenders) and “scavengers” (lazy destroyers), suggesting conservatives are the former and liberals the latter.

• Robert dismantles the analogy:

  • Lions are major scavengers in actual biology—up to 50% of their diet comes from stealing kills. (07:39)
  • "The reality is that, like, well, lions, not only do they scavenge, but most of their scavenging is them stealing kills from animals that did the actual hunting... Robbing them and then taking credit for it. Yeah, Interesting, interesting." – Robert (08:53)

• Cody chimes in on the analogy's laziness:

  • "He couldn't stretch his like, analogy past the end. No, because if you're going to say lions, that's a specific animal. And then you're zooming out to say scavengers, say vultures, like, pick a scavenger to, like, Lay like lions and vultures, whatever. But, like, it's just you're. You're being specific with the first one and then vague..." – Cody (09:34)

3. Ben’s Framing and the Problem of “Scavengers”

• The hosts break down how Ben sees leftist protestors as “scavengers”—especially in the context of pro-Palestinian protests in London.
• Robert exposes the self-contradictory, ahistorical nature of this framing, pointing out the imperial, scavenger-like history of Britain and the West.
  • "London was only the center of Western civilization due to a vast, centuries long program of what can only be described as scavenging theft on a grand scale against an impossibly vast chunk of the globe." – Robert (16:19)
• Cody notes the double standard: Ben and his allies want to crush political enemies with state power, even as they decry “scavenger behavior” in others.

4. Weaponizing Twitter & The Culture War

• Ben’s use of single inflammatory Tweets or statements as proof of societal rot is ridiculed.
  • "Classic conservatism. Not just Ben Shapiro of like, this person made a dumb post that's obviously the same as tens of thousands of people getting murdered from airstrikes and starve to death. These are equivalent 100,000 likes to a bad post. Equal to the murder of thousands..." – Robert (15:09)
• The hosts highlight the selective outrage and hypocrisy regarding whom violence and cruelty are deemed acceptable or outrageous.

5. Misusing Literary Giants: JRR Tolkien and C.S. Lewis

• Ben tries to use Tolkien and Lewis as ideological pillars, casting the “hordes of Mordor” as leftist protestors or Nazis.

• Robert and Cody stress the actual, nuanced, and often anti-authoritarian politics of both writers:

  • Tolkien was an anarchist-leaning critic of power, not a defender of imperial authority. (32:29)
  • Tolkien "loved England, but not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth... He hated the flattening of cultures around the globe under burgeoning capitalism." – Robert (34:09)
  • Lewis, while more conservative, was disgusted by political hacks and theocracy; he loathed unchecked power.

  "Theocracy is the worst of all governments. If we must have a tyrant, a robber baron is far better than an inquisitor..."
  — C.S. Lewis, quoted by Robert (41:23)

• Meme-able Moment: Robert muses Tolkien would cast “Sauron” with a Californian accent today, given his anti-Americanism. (35:14)

6. The Problem With Ben’s “Lions”: False Virtues

• Ben attributes to “lions” traits like creativity, bravery, and refusal to complain; Robert and Cody call BS:
  • Conservatives, especially culture warriors like Ben, are notorious for “complaining about the unfairness of life” and resisting change, not for bold innovation.
  • "If we're just talking about conservatives, the opposite of what you do is find new solutions to problems or forge new paths. You're violently offended by the idea of forging new paths and new solutions." – Robert (37:22)
  • "That's every conservative's job." – Cody (37:54)

7. Ben’s Projection and Hypocrisy

• The hosts identify multiple points at which Ben openly projects his own personal failings (envy, resentment, conspiratorial thinking) onto his enemies.
  • "The spirit of envy is the primary... That's the center of Ben Shapiro's soul." – Robert (58:39)
  • Ben’s description of “scavenger” psychology (“believes there is a great conspiracy against him... only path to success lies in tearing away at that great conspiracy”) is a self-own, summarizing his own career. (61:16)

8. History According to Ben: Selective Amnesia

• Shapiro blames the post-war British welfare state for the empire’s demise—ignoring the devastation of World War I, which bankrupted and bled the Empire dry.
  • "The British Empire didn't get sick and failed because of welfare. It began its slow deathslide during the First World War in which it lit its treasury on fire and annihilated a generation of young men." – Robert (66:14)
• Kipling’s personal tragedy (the death of his son in WWI) and subsequent regrets are lost on Ben, who cherry-picks Kipling’s imperial lines with no sense of the author’s later disillusionment.

9. Poetic Climax: Kipling’s “A Picked Song”

• As a counter to Ben’s worldview, Robert reads Kipling’s anti-imperialist poem, celebrating the subversive, collective resistance of the “little folk.” (71:30)
  • A moment that encapsulates the podcast's blend of historical literacy and dark humor.

10. Final Recap and Body Count

• Robert and Cody agree: The book is intellectually shallow, poorly argued, and—ironically—full of the vices it accuses its enemies of.
• They preview future episodes, promising they'll keep mining Ben’s book for further egregious examples.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"The whole root of his ideological argument here is that you've got lions, which are conservatives...they're creators...and then they're scavengers who just want to tear everything down...the reality is that, like, well, lions...most of their scavenging is them stealing kills from animals that did the actual hunting. Like hyenas and cheetahs...rob and then taking credit for it."
— Robert Evans (08:53)

"He couldn't stretch his, like, analogy past the end. No, because if you're going to say lions, that's a specific animal. And then you're zooming out to say scavengers, say vultures...It's just you're being specific with the first one and then vague, like you're using a category for the second. And this is sloppy."
— Cody Johnston (09:34)

"CS Lewis would fucking like, pile drive him in frustration at how badly this is written."
— Robert Evans (15:57)

"He wants to use...the fundamental premise of this is just based on a complete misunderstanding of wildlife. Beyond that, his attempt to apply a moral line to something fundamentally amoral—which is how different creatures take in their calories—shows a very conservative ignorance towards basic biological reality..."
— Robert Evans (11:51)

"Tolkien...would have been disgusted by them [Shapiro's politics]. Tolkien was a firm anti-Nazi. He was also very anti-Stalin. But he was regularly critical of conservative icon Winston Churchill..."
— Robert Evans (32:29)

"Theocracy is the worst of all governments..."
— C.S. Lewis (quoted by Robert Evans, 41:23)

"The spirit of envy is the primary...That's the center of Ben Shapiro's soul."
— Robert Evans (58:39)

"The scavenger does not believe in an understandable universe in which success is the result of performance of duty...The scavenger, in his perverse projection, believes that there is a great conspiracy against him and that the only path to success lies in tearing away at that great conspiracy with tooth and claw."
— Ben Shapiro (mocked by Robert and Cody, 61:16)

"Rome never looks where she treads...We are as busy as they, working our works out of view. Watch, and you'll see it someday. No, indeed, we are not strong. But we know peoples that are. Yes. And will guide them along to smash and destroy you in war...And then we shall dance on your graves."
— Rudyard Kipling, "A Picked Song" (read by Robert Evans, 71:30)

Segment Timestamps

• [02:13] – Episode begins post-advertisements; introductions and tone-setting
• [04:44] – Robert announces the focus: Ben Shapiro's new book
• [07:39] – Dismantling the lion/scavenger metaphor (lion facts)
• [13:12] – Ben’s impression of London/anti-genocide protests
• [21:03] – Leftist protest motives, refuting Ben’s logic on “Queers for Palestine”
• [29:30] – Ben misappropriates Tolkien & Lord of the Rings
• [32:29] – Tolkien’s actual politics
• [41:23] – C.S. Lewis’ warning on theocracy, Lewis' real views
• [53:03] – Lewis on democracy and the problem of unchecked power
• [58:39] – Dissecting Shapiro’s envy and Hollywood resentment
• [66:11] – Kipling, British Empire decline, and WWI consequences
• [71:30] – Closing with Kipling’s anti-imperialist poem

Takeaways for New Listeners

• This episode is a masterclass in debunking shallow political analogies and exposing the hypocrisy of "culture war" narratives.
• It demonstrates how poor writing and misunderstanding of history and literature can serve ideological propaganda.
• The dynamic between Robert and Cody blends biting humor with genuine expertise, making nuanced points highly accessible and entertaining.
• Even if you haven’t read (or haven't the patience for) Ben Shapiro’s work, this episode offers a much more coherent and insightful literary and historical analysis.

Final Thoughts

A cutting—but thoughtful—critique that skewers not only Ben Shapiro's latest book but the very worldview that undergirds it. For listeners, it's both a satisfying roast and a primer on how not to do cultural commentary (and how to dissect it when it's done badly).