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Behind The Song: Classic Rock Chronicles
Janda and Christian on the Black Sabbath Reunion
00:27:42
Join Janda and Christian in this chat about Black Sabbath's heavy metal homecoming.
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- [00:00]
Janda
97.1Fm. The drive presents the behind the Song podcast, taking you deeper into classic rock's most timeless tunes. Here's your host, Janda.
- [00:11]
Christian
Hey, let's talk about Black Sabbath. It's Janda here with Christian for this bonus episode to talk about the big Black Sabbath reunion happening this summer in Birmingham, England. They're calling it Back to the Beginning.
- [00:28]
Janda
I think one thing we've learned over the years, especially when it comes to these kind of rock bands, is never say never, obviously. Like, just never say never. And to be in Birmingham, where it all started, it's, you know, bittersweet, obviously. It's. It's sweet because it's the. The real core for the originals. It's in Birmingham, which implies it'll be in front of whatever families they have left there and friends. And it's also bitter because, you know, it's. It's the end of the road. But, boy, did they give us a lot.
- [01:03]
Christian
We're talking Ozzy Geezer, Tony Iommi, and Bill Ward, who was kind of, you know, the dark horse in all this because they were under contract dispute for so many years. Bill Ward, the original four members of Black Sabbath getting back together one last time to perform in the birthplace of Black Sabbath, Birmingham, England. I mean, when I heard this news, especially knowing everything that Ozzy Osbourne has been through over the past, you know, five, six years between having Parkinson's disease and then all of the surgeries that Ozzy had after, you know, the accident that hurt his back, I mean, he said it himself, he's the Tin Man.
- [01:50]
Janda
He arguably was having a hard time Remembering in the 80s, I'd say, you know, I guess he's been working out and building up his strength, and I just. I find that so inspiring and so beautiful.
- [02:06]
Christian
The show date is July 5th, and when this thing went on sale around Valentine's Day, it sold out per live nation in 10 minutes. Now, the venue that Black Sabbath is playing in holds about 40,000. It's a place called Aston Villa in their hometown of Birmingham, England. So people from all over the world are going to be at this reunion show. It was a shock to anybody who's been a fan of rock music over these past decades, because like you said, Christian, there is hardly anyone in the entire rock canon who has famously put himself through quite as much in terms of substances and everything else than Ozzy Osbourne. And let's just backtrack a little bit over just focusing on Ozzy alone for one second. Here was a guy who I believe if Ozzy didn't become a musician. From everything that I've known and seen about Ozzy as a fan over the years, I think Ozzy had, is one of those guys who had two options in front of him. You know, he was either gonna be in a band, a rock and roll band, or probably not much good would happen. You know, he didn't, he didn't have that many choices in his life.
- [03:27]
Janda
He said himself, actually he was 13 years old and he heard she loves you. He was walking to school and she loves you. The Beatles. And the first time hearing the Beatles and it was the first time that it hit him that he was. Didn't have many choices and it was either going to be a life of crime or he was going to get in a band and do what they were doing and get out of Birmingham. Alton, more more specifically, which was, you know, the even a tinier part of Birmingham. Yeah, I don't think there just wasn't a whole lot of options, you know, as, as I'm sure we'll talk about, you know, it was just an industrial town.
- [04:08]
Christian
Yeah.
- [04:09]
Janda
And, you know, you can basically do what your dad did and you didn't have those. The prospects, you know, of like, each generation is going to do better than the next. It was sort of like, no, you'll be lucky if you just keep doing what your dad and his dad did. Yeah, he's. He's one of those guys that, you know, saved by rock and roll.
- [04:28]
Christian
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- [04:59]
Janda
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- [05:28]
Christian
Absolutely. So Black Sabbath happens, you know, over the course of his life. Ozzie is kicked out of Black Sabbath in the late 70s because he was too wild and crazy. And then embarks on this solo enterprise, you know, gets with Sharon Osborne, then does the Ozzy records and along the way bites the head off a bat, maybe a couple other, you know, farm animals. And then, you know, later, after he has established himself and has a big estate in Beverly Hills, the Osbourne's TV show happens. And that is when America and the rest of the world really got a load of how kind of cuddly and endearing Ozzy could be. It made people kind of fall in love with him, even if they weren't fans of Black Sabbath or of Ozzy solo records. So we all kind of have a stake, you know, through, through pop culture period in Ozzy's well being. And that's why it was so shocking, you know, knowing what we know about his health issues, that this, this show was announced because he's fragile. He's so fragile. You know, he's, he has advanced Parkinson's, the surgeries, he has a, he has a really, really, really hard time. So everybody was very excited to hear about this news. And it's not just Black Sabbath, it's not just the, the hallowed four originals coming back together and you know, taking the stage on July 5th in Birmingham. There's an entire slew of bands that are on this bill. Metallica and Slayer and Alice in Chains and Anthrax and on and on and on. And then there's the special guests who are going to be performing like with Ozzy solo, you know, Billy Corgan from the Pumpkins and Duff McKagan and Slash are going to be there. I mean this is, this is kind of crazy. And then you have as the musical director, Tom Morello of Rage against the Machine, who's going to be kind of orchestrating the whole day. And Tom Morello said that this will be the greatest heavy metal show ever. And I have to believe that that's true. This has got to be on par with, you know, the best Oz Fest lineup that, that you've ever seen. You know, times, times 10 because of the fact that you have Black Sabbath reunited there on stage.
- [07:56]
Janda
Right. I was going to actually bring up, you know, when we were talking about cultural import of Ozzy Osbourne, the Ozzfest, arguably one of the biggest enterprises that has his name on it. You know, it's a thing that Sharon helped really organize. But it's really, it really, you know, for like later generation metal fans and metal bands, it really broke a lot of new bands. It sort of kept heavy metal Going especially in a package tour way, at a time when, you know, metal always has its up and downs. It's got its cultural peaks and valleys. And the Ozzfest was sort of at a time when, like, all the. It was all pop and boy bands and Britney Spears, you know, the Ozzfest was really keeping the flame alive for Heavy Met, giving it a venue, if you will, and in a place to see new bands, hear some classic bands and. Yeah. So, you know, it really is kind of like an Oz Fest on steroids, because you have black. I mean, come on, you have Black Sabbath. It's crazy.
- [09:11]
Christian
Yeah, it's something that I don't think anybody thought that they would ever see again. So you have this. This huge event happening in Birmingham and the city of Birmingham itself. You know, a lot of people will. Will agree, although there's always some dispute about, you know, who was the first heavy metal band. But just about everybody would have to put Black Sabbath at least up near the top of the list, if not at the top of the list in terms of, you know, the originators of. Of heavy metal and. And then even, you know, you know, doom metal and even stoner rock.
- [09:46]
Janda
Yeah. Heavy metal as a sound and heavy metal as a. Of mindset. Does that make sense?
- [09:53]
Christian
Sure.
- [09:53]
Janda
They really did sort of. For me, they're number one. They're the. They're the first metal band because they were the first that actively were, you know, embraced something at a time that no one embraced, that no one was looking at, which was the dark side of culture and life at that time. I mean, you know, it was 1968 and Vietnam and political assassinations and goodness Gracious, on and on, they were reflecting that side instead of the sunshine and granny glasses that most bands were portraying at the time.
- [10:32]
Christian
So then you have this. This sort of dark heavy music that is not peace and love, flower child stuff coming out of a place like Birmingham, which is itself, you know, a dark industrial factory town. And especially in those days, it was. The city fits the sound. The sound fits the city much like when the grunge scene happened in Seattle and it sort of reflected the weather there. You know, the rainy Pacific Northwest. The music of Black Sabbath also reflects geographically where they're from.
- [11:07]
Janda
Birmingham is an industrial town and the sound of it is large things hitting each other. It's pistons and it's, you know, it's compressors. And so Tony Iommi is working in a factory and, you know, he's an aspiring musician, but he's thinking, I have to make some Sort of racket that's going to compete with this, that's on his mind. It also directly influences the music in a way that I think a lot of people know. But for those of you who don't, when Tony was a teenager and he's working in a factory, he lost two fingertips on his left hand. And if you're a right handed guitar player, that's, that's your money maker. You need that to fret and make chords and to make the. Especially you need all, all four fingers to make those lush and beautiful chords. Being a guitar player, it actually hurts a little bit to hear or think about it. But he lost his fingertips and he thought, that's it, I'm done, I'll never play guitar. And that's, it's like you don't have choices. It's either factory or the dream of making it out in music. And he's, he's very much in despair. And a co worker brings him a record by Django Reinhardt. Gypsy guitar player. Two working fingers on his left hand and still is still considered one of the most revolutionary guitar players. Inspired everybody from Jerry Garcia to all the folk guys. Anyway, he's inspired. He. He then takes felt, basically pieces of leather, I guess, and fashions fingertips for himself. Now this is going to force him to play in a different way. And what it does, it forces him to play really simple and do a lot of one string riffs. Meaning you're not going, you don't need, you know, to, to play those beautiful chords, you need all those fingers. But to play one string riffs, you just, you just need one finger, really. That changes the way he approaches guitar and that changes the way heavy metal guitar players in the future will play. He takes a note from blues players and tries some different tunings on his guitar. Discovers that if he drops the low E string down a whole step, sorry if I'm getting into the weeds. He drops it a whole step to D. He can make power chords with just one finger laying across the fret. This changes everything. It changes the sound, it changes what he can do. And so the city changes, changes Tony Iommi physically, right? Changes the way he approaches guitar, which then changes the way heavy metal will sound going forth. Especially what, you know, you were saying about Seattle, especially inspires years later, those grunge players in Seattle with that gloomy weather. What an appropriate band to take a page from. And they all started dropping the D, dropping the E string to D and, you know, creating some of the heaviest music of, you know, you and my time.
- [14:30]
Christian
Right, Exactly. In the 90s, that was an interesting way to put it. You know, the city of Birmingham basically shaped Tony Iommi by virtue of taking away his fingertips. And then he, in turn, persevered on the inspiration of Django Reinhardt, who had also lost a couple fingers. And then he shaped a sound, a way to make sounds out of the guitar, which. Let's think about that for a minute. Guitars, stringed instruments have. Have been in existence centuries. I mean, you know, at that point, centuries, I think, of, you know, the loot putting strings on pieces of wood and playing them. And then comes Tony Iommi with a couple fingertips off and completely sort of revolutionizes how you approach this instrument with an electronic instrument.
- [15:23]
Janda
Honestly, in the 20th century, you have Django minus a couple fingers changing the way jazz guitar will sound forever. And then you've got Tony Iommi minus a couple fingers, changing a couple fingertips changing the way rock guitar will sound forever. So she's. Don't ever underestimate those dudes who lose their fingertips. They will come back with a vengeance.
- [15:48]
Christian
I guess that is the lesson from that. Wow.
- [15:53]
Janda
So. And speaking of Tony Iommi's fingertips, Janda, I know you interviewed Tony Iommi in LA once. Did you get a look at the fingertips?
- [16:03]
Christian
I did. I had a great chat with Tony Iommi. This was back in 2000. I asked him if I could see it, and he said, yeah, sure. And it's not like his whole. It's not like, you know, the finger's gone to the knuckle or anything like that. It's just the tips. It's just the tips. But that tip, you can see, would be crucial enough to make or break someone who, you know, wasn't going to persevere and basically relearn how to do. How to. How to play his instrument. So it was kind of amazing to see that. And I will say, as long as we're talking about that, Tony Iommi was absolutely one of the coolest guys ever. He was so gentlemanly and. And, you know, obviously so very British. And he was dressed all in black, of course, and he was. He was. He was a real delight to talk to. I would say, you know, one of my top 10, you know, rock star conversations ever. Tony Iommi.
- [16:55]
Janda
So I. I met him at a studio briefly in Los Angeles. He was with Sharon Osborne, and he was wearing black sport coat with sequins on the lapels.
- [17:07]
Christian
Yeah, but it was.
- [17:09]
Janda
It wasn't like. It was. It was cool. He Was still, like, understated somehow. He's very cool. Very cool guy.
- [17:15]
Christian
Yeah. I mean, Tony Iommi, totally brilliant. Ozzy Osbourne, fantastic frontman and melodic singer based on, you know, his. His first love of music, the Beatles. He's like a Beatles fanatic practically.
- [17:31]
Janda
Yeah, it just still. All his melodies, he still thinks of it as he's just trying to be the Beatles.
- [17:39]
Christian
I mean, I just think that's so cool because, you know, through Ozzy's filter, it takes on a whole new sort of shape, but the melodies are there. And then you have rounding out, you know, the. The OG Black Sabbath, Bill Ward and Geezer Butler holding down the rhythm section. So, you know, you think about these guys in this industrial town in the late 60s, you know, end of. End of the 60s decade, you know, coming at it with a completely different perspective. And then they get two whole days of studio time to record their first, you know, their debut album, the. The Black Sabbath album, one of which was dedicated to mixing it. So basically they had one day to. To record it. And then, you know, they get in there and they. They crank out these songs that. Wow, nobody had ever heard anything like that before.
- [18:30]
Janda
Can I just say what a baller move it is to name a song Black Sabbath?
- [18:35]
Christian
Let's just talk about the.
- [18:37]
Janda
I mean, come on.
- [18:37]
Christian
Not only the song is named Black Sabbath, the album is named Black Sabbath, the band is named Black Sabbath. I mean, if. If you want to piss off your parents, go ahead and bring home a Black Sabbath album. I would say definitely then, but I mean, even potentially now, it's still one.
- [18:56]
Janda
Of those bands that can piss parents off. No matter when, you know, what you've seen. No matter what. No matter what decade it is. I think Black Sabbath has the ability to shock and in a good way, you know, in a. In that good rock and roll way of like, if it's too loud, you're too old. You know, that's a great thing about Sabbath for me.
- [19:18]
Christian
I agree completely. And those first three albums, you know, I think all in, you know, Black Sabbath, Paranoid and Master of Reality, those three albums, you know, the. The band couldn't have known it at the time, but I think that they create those three albums in particular created a sort of safe space for metal fans who. You would be in that Black Sabbath camp, you know, as opposed to, like, there's a fun side of metal and then there's sort of like the. The dark and heavy side of metal. And Black Sabbath firmly established that.
- [19:54]
Janda
Oh, yeah, that's a good way of Looking at it, I never thought about that. But a safe space for metal fans or for that kind of metal fan. Yeah.
- [20:00]
Christian
Right.
- [20:00]
Janda
That's a good. Putting it.
- [20:02]
Christian
The thinking man's metal, I guess, you know.
- [20:04]
Janda
Yeah, well, and what's interesting, when you say that to the thinking man's metal, you know, people, and I've said it, they're riff rock and they're, you know, whatever, the first heavy metal band, but surprisingly socially conscious, if you will. You know, there's. There's songs about the environment, there's songs about mental illness, there's songs about drug addiction. It's surprising and. Yeah. You know, for. For such a metal band. Geezer Butler has written some really astute lyrics, if you will.
- [20:41]
Christian
A sci fi guy.
- [20:42]
Janda
He's a. Yeah, he's a big sci fi guy. And, you know, at that time, in the late 60s, sci fi was firmly under the umbrella of hippie literature. So there was a lot of talks about ecology and the environment and putting in stories about American Indians, but, you know, disguising them as science fiction just. It was a surprisingly fertile area of literature. And he was really into it, as well as comic books, which, you know, Iron man. But sure, sure, y. I mean, he was. He was surprisingly literate and he was. He was definitely always searching for something. From what I've read, He. He was interested in the dark side, but he was very interested in Christianity as well. It's. He's a surprising dude. He's. You know, so the lyrics. When you say a thinking man's metal, you're very right about that. That's very actually accurate.
- [21:40]
Christian
You know, what the great thing is about rock and roll, aside from the music, is that, you know, along the way we all end up learning something from our elders. Don't.
- [21:50]
Janda
Yeah, you never know. I mean, the less I know, honestly. That's true. The lessons are everywhere.
- [21:56]
Christian
Yeah.
- [21:57]
Janda
Yeah. I mean, you just. Sometimes you just don't expect it. You know, you don't expect to get them from Black Sabbath, Beavis and Butthead banging your head. And the best bands, to me, create their own world and that you can step in. And when you're. When you're listening to them, you're not just listening to a record, but you're sort of stepping into their worldview. You're stepping into the language that they use, the sort of way they put things. And, you know, Sabbath was a real world. It was a real. Like, if this is a video game, you'd call it world building. You know, it's a real. It's a real whole world you step into. And I think that's part of what makes them so potent and why we're still talking about them. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Hey, it's Brian. And hey, it is Murdoch. Welcome to the Rock and Roll Story Guys podcast. It's a show where two best friends sit around and talk about rock and roll, rumor and innuendo. We used to work together, we booked concerts together. We've done very bad things together, seen things we shouldn't have seen. Wait, wait, we've seen the movie Very Bad Things Together. That's what he means, right? And you write the letters. You determine what we're gonna talk about on our podcast. It's a whole lot of fun. Download the thing now, wherever you like to find audio to put in your ear holes. It's Rock and Roll Story, guys.
- [23:40]
Christian
Talking about them just makes me want to pull out those first three albums and listen to them really loud, too. You know, I mean, there's. There's something so powerful and so, so of pure about that heavy, heavy music. And, you know, God bless Black Sabbath for getting back together. And. And God bless Ozzy Osbourne, too. I mean, you know, where would we be without them? I'm so happy that this reunion's happening, and I'm so happy that, you know, Ozzy's gonna give it one more go for the fans, which is what he said he wanted to do by doing this show. And even though we won't be able to go to Birmingham, England, sadly, Christian, to see this big day of Rock on July 5th with Black Sabbath and so many other bands. It was just announced that Ozzy's the subject of a new documentary that's coming out on Paramount. They basically started filming when he did the patient number nine solo album in, like, 2022. And then they've been filming him throughout his Parkinson's journey and throughout his journey with all of the surgeries over the past few years. And then it will culminate with this final Black sabbath show on July 5, and then that documentary is going to be coming out on Paramount plus later this year. So we'll definitely be watching that along with everybody else who couldn't get a ticket to the show.
- [25:00]
Janda
Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to see that. I'm so glad they're doing that. That's really great. I'm looking forward to that.
- [25:07]
Christian
Yeah. And if you happen to get a ticket to go to Birmingham and see this final show with Black Sabbath on July 5th and take some video, send it to us. You can find me on Instagram or anywhere. All right, Christian, as always, thank you for your musical insights on this little bonus chit chat of the behind the Song podcast. Appreciate it. As always, always a pleasure. And on the way, much more classic rock and roll.