Janda and Christian talk notable guitar solos! (Part 4)

Summary

Behind The Song: Classic Rock Chronicles
Episode Summary: Janda and Christian Talk Notable Guitar Solos! (Part 4)
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Host/Author: Gamut Podcast Network

In the fourth installment of "Behind The Song," hosted by Janda Lane and featuring return guest Christian Lane, listeners are treated to an in-depth exploration of some of the most iconic guitar solos in classic rock history. This episode delves into the artistry and influence of legendary guitarists Pete Townshend, Mark Knopfler, and Eddie Van Halen, offering rich discussions, personal insights, and memorable quotes that highlight the essence of each musician's contribution to rock music.

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Introduction to Part 4

[00:01] Janda:
Janda opens the episode by welcoming listeners back to the podcast, setting the stage for another deep dive into classic rock's timeless tunes. She introduces Christian Lane, signaling the continuation of their series on notable guitar solos.

[00:18] Christian Lane:
Christian humorously remarks on the unresolved questions from previous episodes, indicating a lively and ongoing conversation.

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Pete Townshend: The Unsung Lead

[00:33] Christian Lane:
Christian introduces Pete Townshend as the next guitarist of focus, highlighting his admiration for Townshend's rhythm playing skills. He states, “He's one of my favorite rhythm guitar players...very influential rhythm players, but overlooked lead player in my opinion.”

Pete Townshend's Rhythm Mastery:
Christian emphasizes Townshend's prowess in rhythm guitar, comparing him to John Lennon as one of the best rhythm guitarists in classic rock. He notes that Townshend's lead opportunities within The Who were limited due to the band's dynamic, with other members like John Entwistle and Keith Moon taking on lead roles in their respective instruments.

[02:34] Janda:
Janda interjects to discuss the "Rough Mix" album, a rare collaboration between Pete Townshend and Ronnie Lane. She provides background on the album's creation and its significance, highlighting Lane's battle with multiple sclerosis discovered during its production.

Notable Quote:
Janda reflects on the collaboration, saying, “...there are such great blues rock players, a totally underrated Ronnie Lane...Pete Townsend seems to be having fun.”

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Analysis of "Eminence Front"

[03:50] Christian Lane:
Christian delves into Townshend's work on "Eminence Front" from The Who's album It's Hard. He describes the guitar work as “very clean” and “blues-based,” likening it to horn punctuations and emphasizing its natural, effortless quality. He praises the solo for showcasing Townshend's whimsical side and his ability to serve the song effectively.

Notable Quote:
Christian shares, “...it's just so natural. It comes out so effortlessly. You know, it reminds me of horns.”

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Pete Townshend’s Dual Nature and Vocals

[06:29] Janda:
Janda comments on Townshend's signature windmill guitar move, highlighting the dichotomy between his stage antics and understated guitar playing. She describes him as “a man and a musician and an artist who is just absolutely riddled with dichotomies.”

[07:14] Christian Lane:
Christian expresses admiration for Townshend's vocal abilities, noting the emotional depth in his singing. He adds a playful controversia, sparking a light-hearted banter about preference in vocals.

[12:54] Christian Lane:
Christian briefly tangents to recommend Townshend's solo work, emphasizing his continued contributions to music beyond Dire Straits.

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Mark Knopfler: The Melodic Mastermind

[07:28] Christian Lane:
Transitioning to Mark Knopfler, Christian expresses his initial intimidation by Knopfler’s playing but ultimately recognizes him as “one of the greatest guitar players that ever lived.” He highlights the solo from "Sultans of Swing*" as a standout piece that guitarists aspire to learn.

Influences and Style:
Christian traces Knopfler’s influences to Chet Atkins and Cream’s Eric Clapton, noting his use of techniques like “chicken picking” and 16th note arpeggios. He admires Knopfler’s ability to blend technical prowess with melodic sensitivity, creating a clean and direct sound that serves the song impeccably.

Notable Quote:
Christian remarks, “Mark Knopfler is doing both [technical and musical]. And maybe that's because he's a singer and a songwriter.”

[10:48] Janda:
Janda elaborates on Knopfler’s emotional expression through his guitar, describing his playing as “beautiful” and capable of conveying unspoken words within a song's context. She appreciates his refined approach that leaves no doubt about the song's content.

Notable Quote:
Janda shares, “He is serving the song, which is one of the criteria for this list. You know, does this guitar work serve the song? And I think in every case, the answer... would be a resounding yes.”

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Eddie Van Halen: The Rock Innovator

[12:40] Janda:
Janda segues into Eddie Van Halen, juxtaposing him against Townshend’s clean style. She highlights Van Halen’s self-assured mastery and unique stage presence, noting his innovative techniques and the theatricality of keeping his guitar work concealed during performances.

Christian’s Highlight: Michael Jackson’s “Beat It” Solo

[12:54] Christian Lane:
Christian introduces Eddie Van Halen's solo on Michael Jackson's "Beat It," emphasizing its memorability and immediate recognition among listeners. He recounts the behind-the-scenes story of how Van Halen was approached by Quincy Jones to contribute to the track.

Notable Quote:
Christian states, “It’s fun, it’s nasty. I think it has almost every trick in his book.”

Production Insights:

[14:02] Janda:
Janda reminisces about the impact of the "Thriller" album, noting its ubiquity and the monumental success of "Beat It."

[14:08] Christian Lane:
Christian explains the collaboration process, revealing that Quincy Jones initially sought Pete Townshend before settling on Eddie Van Halen after multiple attempts to contact him. He details Van Halen's conditions for the solo recording, including remaining uncredited and not informing his band—conditions that were only partially met as Eddie was credited in the liner notes.

Behind the Solo:

[15:22] Janda:
Janda confirms that Eddie Van Halen was indeed credited on the "Beat It" liner notes, refuting the notion that he remained anonymous.

[16:13] Janda:
Janda recounts the legendary quickness with which Van Halen recorded the solo—improvising and completing it in just two takes.

[16:25] Christian Lane:
Christian discusses the tension between Eddie and his brother Alex Van Halen during the recording session, highlighting Eddie’s dedication to his craft despite internal band rules.

Technical Brilliance:

[17:00] Christian Lane:
Christian contrasts Eddie Van Halen’s solo on "Beat It" with his work in his own band, praising his innovative use of techniques like tapping, bends, and fast picking, all showcased brilliantly in this particular solo.

Stage Presence and Legacy:

[18:16] Janda:
Janda reflects on Eddie Van Halen’s notorious stage antics, such as turning his back during performances to keep his guitar techniques hidden, underscoring his confidence and the unique flair he brought to rock performances.

Notable Quote:
She observes, “He was doing it all. All up and down the neck, all over the body of the guitar.”

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Conclusion and Future Episodes

[19:52] Christian Lane:
Christian expresses enthusiasm for dedicating an entire episode to Eddie Van Halen, given the depth and range of his guitar work.

[20:07] Janda:
Janda agrees, suggesting a focused discussion on multiple Van Halen solos, before gracefully wrapping up the episode.

Closing Remarks:
Janda thanks Christian for his participation and contributions, hinting at more classic rock discussions to come.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Pete Townshend's Rhythm Excellence:

   • Recognized as one of the best rhythm guitarists in classic rock.
   • Limited lead opportunities in The Who, but his solos are impactful and service the song effectively.
   • Collaborative work with Ronnie Lane on "Rough Mix" showcases his bluesy side.

2. Mark Knopfler's Melodic Mastery:

   • Esteemed for his blend of technical skill and emotional expressiveness.
   • Influenced by Chet Atkins and Eric Clapton, creating a unique, clean guitar sound that serves the song's narrative.
   • Solo craft exemplified in "Sultans of Swing" and beyond.

3. Eddie Van Halen's Innovative Brilliance:

   • Pioneered techniques like tapping and fast picking, significantly influencing rock guitar.
   • His solo on "Beat It" remains one of the most memorable and technically impressive in rock history.
   • Known for his distinctive stage presence and dedication to maintaining the uniqueness of his guitar work.

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Notable Quotes:

• Christian Lane on Pete Townshend:
  “[Pete] really can't in the who because John Entwistle is basically a lead bass player and Keith Moon is a lead drummer. He’s doing solos the whole time.”

• Janda on the "Rough Mix" Album:
  “He doesn't think he's good, which I also think is the mark of a good player.”

• Christian Lane on Mark Knopfler:
  “He's able to do the flashy stuff, but he's also very melodic.”

• Janda on Eddie Van Halen’s Solo:
  “He is absolutely incredible, and yet he does it in such a way that it serves the song so perfectly.”

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This episode of "Behind The Song" successfully unpacks the nuanced guitar styles of three iconic musicians, offering listeners both technical insights and personal reflections that deepen the appreciation of classic rock's rich musical tapestry.

Transcript

[Janda]

Welcome to the behind the Song podcast, taking you deeper into classic rock's most timeless tunes. Here's your host, Janda. I'm Janda, joined once again by Christian Lane, here to talk about guitar solos. Christian, hello. This is part four.

[Christian Lane]

Too many unanswered questions from parts one, two and three.

[Janda]

I guess so. All right, so we have already covered many greats in the world of classic rock guitar solos. So let's dive right into who's next on this seemingly never ending list.

[Christian Lane]

Well, it's funny that you would say who's next because next for me is Pete Townsend.

[Janda]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Christian Lane]

So, you know, honestly, he's one of my favorite rhythm guitar players. Him and John Lennon are like, I think the two best rhythm guitar players in classic rock. You know, when I was a kid learning guitar, I kind of wanted to be like them because, you know, you don't start playing solos when you're young. You start in rhythm. So very influential rhythm players, but under looked lead player in my opinion. The thing with Pete Townsend and lead playing, if you will, or playing solos is he sort of can't in the who because John Entwistle is basically a lead bass player and Keith Moon is a lead drummer. He, he's doing solos the whole time. And the Ox, John Entwistle, you know, he's, he's really doing a lot of like solo y kind of stuff. So really Pete Townsend's job is just kind of hold it down. Like, you know, oddly the, the guitar player is usually the one who gets to add all the color and the flavor and the fun and you just can't in the who. So limited opportunities to solo. But I think when he does, he's just great. And he doesn't think he's good, which I also think is the mark of a good player. You never think you're that good. A lot of people will cite Love, Rain or Me off Quadrophenia. It's one of the few solos that. And it is great, it's emotional and it's somewhat soaring, but for my money, I love it when he kind of plays that bluesy style. It's really exemplified on this record he made with Ronnie Lane. The record was called Rough Mix and they did this song called My Baby Gives it Away and his playing on there is just tasty blues based riff.

[Janda]

Let me jump in here for just a second and talk about the Rough Mix album. This is a very rare collaboration between Pete Townsend and Ronnie Lane. Ronnie Lane, of course, from the Small Faces and the Faces just A beloved guy, a beloved player who unfortunately passed in the 90s from multiple sclerosis. And in fact, when Pete and Ronnie decided to make this album together, it didn't start out like that. It started out as Ronnie Lane asking Pete Townsend to produce his solo album. But then they, you know, they got together and it was just so perfect. Glen Johns produced it, and it's just such an awesome album. And it was during this album, during the making of this album, that Ronnie Lane discovered the Ms. Diagnosis. So just a tragic ending for a great player, a great blues rock player, someone much beloved by just about every luminary in classic rock, a totally underrated Ronnie Lane. So, yeah, so anyway, I had to mention that. And I love the song My Baby Gives It Away. You can tell on that song that Pete Townsend seems to be having fun. So great album. Rough mix. Townsend and Ronnie Lane. So there you go.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, it's really an album worth seeking out. It's so good. And the fun aspect, you're right, it does sound like he's having fun. I kind of wonder now if, like, in playing with Ronnie Lane and having fun, he realized, oh, I do this thing. I don't know. There's this thing he does. The song I want to. To bring up is Eminence front from It's Hard by the who. He does this thing at the beginning. It's sort of reminiscent of the way he plays on My Baby Gives It Away. It's. It's just sort of riffage. It's soloing, but it's very clean. It's very blues based. And it sounds to me like it's just very natural to him. It sounds almost like, you know, the way he would warm up or something. It sounds like he probably does it at soundcheck, getting his sound together. It's just so natural. It comes out so effortlessly. You know, it reminds me of horns. It reminds me of sort of the punctuations of a saxophone player. It's just really groovy and special to me. And I think it just shows his more whimsical side of his playing. And, you know, as mentioned, he has no room in the who usually, but at the beginning of this song, it's sort of a drum machine loop and he really gets to play and go off. And so that's my pick for Pete Townsend and the who, you know, and again, this is a guy who didn't think much of his own playing. You know, he talks about going with Eric Clapton to see Hendrix, and they were both just so disheartened but also inspired. And it sort of refocused him on what he was good at. He realized he was never going to be a Hendrix kind of player, but, you know, he was a songwriter, so that didn't really matter. So it focused him on being the visionary and the poet and those things. So it gave us the who and who's next in sort of rock operas and concept albums. So, again, I'm gonna go with Eminence front because it is whimsical, fun, and I do believe it's Pete Townsend's Wheelhouse.

[Janda]

And speaking of wheelhouse and windmills, it's interesting to think about Pete Townsend not really being such a flashy guitar player because he has this trademark windmill move that he does with his guitar. That's just an interesting little dichotomy there with Pete Townsend, I think a man and a musician and an artist who is just absolutely riddled with dichotomies, you know, and that's what makes him so interesting as an artist and as someone, you know, that we've listened to for years.

[Christian Lane]

Well, he said the who never let their music get in the way of a stage show. So whether it was the windmill or smashing Guitars live in the early days, that was his motivation. And, yeah, it's funny, you know, the windmill and he never really took a flashy solo.

[Janda]

I also really appreciate the fact that you chose two songs that Pete Townsend sang on as well, because, of course, in the who, you have Roger Daltrey, an amazing vocalist, but I have always been very fond of Pete's vocal abilities. There's like a little hurt bird in there that you can hear when he sings. It's very emotional. So I love that. He also sang on these two songs that you chose to show off his guitar Wheelhouse.

[Christian Lane]

I'll say it. I. I prefer his vocals.

[Janda]

I do Controversy.

[Christian Lane]

Drop. Drop a comment.

[Janda]

Don't tell Roger. Whatever you do.

[Christian Lane]

Let'S just move on. Well, since we were talking about a solo with a very clean tone, I think it's best that I go into Mark Knopfler.

[Janda]

Oh, my gosh. Finally. I've been talking for, what, three, four episodes about Mark Knopf. Floor. Let's go.

[Christian Lane]

Well, I think I mentioned it before. I've always been a little bit intimidated by him and his playing, and part of it was because I just didn't understand what he was doing. I do think he's one of the. The greatest guitar players that ever lived. I really did. He made a style on the electric guitar that, you know, people have Tried to imitate, but very few have mastered. I'm gonna go with Sultans of. Someone said it's the guitar solo that everybody wants to learn. I don't find any untruths in that statement. If you can play it, I think everybody wants to. So he was inspired a lot by Chet Atkins, who was known as Mr. Guitar. And he did a thing called chicken picking, which is taking your thumb and index finger and kind of plucking the string before you sound the string. He does this to such a amazing effect on a Stratocaster. He was somewhat inspired by Cream and Eric Clapton and that bluesy stuff. Well, his style actually inspired Eric Clapton in the way he approached Lay Down Sally.

[Janda]

What? Really? Wow.

[Christian Lane]

We'll hear a little bit. You listen to that and it sounds like it could be Mark Knopfler playing it in Eric Clapton's hands. He could sort of imitate Mark Knopfler, but I don't know how many people really can. And there's technical players and then there's very musical players. I think of George Harrison's being very musical. You think of Eddie Van Halen as being very technical. Well, I think of Mark Knopfler is doing both. And maybe that's because he's a singer and a songwriter. So he approaches it with a lot of melody, but he also manages like in Sultans of Swing to get in 16th note arpeggios for you guitar players. So. So he's able to do the flashy stuff, but he's also very melodic. That clean sound, it's a little scary because it's naked. You know, we've talked about Warren Zevon getting up on stage with just the piano and being naked. And that's what a clean sounding guitar is to me. So with distortion, you've got it covering things up. It kind of smooths in the cracks, if you will. It doesn't show as much now with a clean sound now that's just right there for all the world to see. Yeah, you can hear every note. So he plays with this super clean sound and it just explains exposes him to the world. But he's so good. He never misses. He's just fluid. And a beautiful guitar player watching his hands. He's just beautiful.

[Janda]

I think that's the word that comes to mind when I hear Mark Knoffer play guitar. He's one of my favorites, as you know. I feel like I could probably pinpoint his guitar work in a blind test. He's that unique. And there's something about how he creates emotion on the guitar, which is how I respond to music. You know, I'm not a guitar. I just know how it makes me feel. And when I hear Mark Knopfler play guitar, I can hear the unspoken words that are there that maybe aren't even being said in the lyrics of the song. But I feel like he's talking to me in a voice in a different language that I can hear, you know, in the context of the song. And it always just adds to it so much, whatever the song is, just for the raw feel of it in a refined kind of way. Because he's not a rough and rowdy guitar player. He is, like you say, that clean, direct approach. It's almost as if he wants to play guitar in a way that leaves no question on the table as to the content of the song itself. And so in that way, he is serving the song, which is one of the criteria for this list. You know, does this guitar work serve the song? And I think in every case, the answer to that question with Mark Knopfler would be a resounding yes.

[Christian Lane]

I don't think I could say anything about him better or more insightful than what you just said, honestly. You know, what you're talking about is, to me, what's most important, and that's the listener's experience. It's not the technical, really. I mean, I'm talking about the technical. But what you just said, you really nailed it down, and it really. That's a nice little tribute to his playing.

[Janda]

I hope I get to tell him to his face one day.

[Christian Lane]

That'd be great.

[Janda]

If you haven't dug any of his solo albums, apart from Dire Straits. Definitely worth digging up, even if you're just a casual fan of Dire Straits, because he has continued to put out music, you know, since Dire Straits broke up, so definitely.

[Christian Lane]

All right, well, I'm going to wrap up today's list with sort of the polar opposite of playing clean, Eddie Van Halen, but in particular, his work on Michael Jackson's beating.

[Janda]

Okay, now, hang on, Christian. We're talking about Eddie Van Halen, and you're gonna go directly to Michael Jackson's Beat It. Okay. All right, I'm with it. I like it. Yeah. I mean, because. Because the minute you said Beat it and you said Eddie Van Halen, I can hear that solo. I'm sitting here in a room with headphones on. The song is not playing right now, and I could hear his solo. It immediately comes to mind. And that is what you call a memorable Guitar solo. So, yes, by all means, let's get into Beat it to Michael Jackson with evh.

[Christian Lane]

I mean, there's only. Look, there it is. I mean, that's a notable guitar solo. You can. Can hear it in your head when it's just mentioned. Everybody knows Thriller still the biggest selling album of all time.

[Janda]

Oh, it was just an absolute behemoth. It crushed everything. It was ubiquitous. It was the biggest thing in the world at the time.

[Christian Lane]

Oh, yeah, it was like Godzilla stomping across the world. It just took it over. But while they were making that, it hadn't become the world beater yet, but they were gonna just throw everything they could into it. And Quincy went to Michael and said, I think you need a rock song. And. And Michael Jackson decided, well, I'm going to write the kind of rock song that I would like to hear. So he wrote Beat It. Quincy got the idea that we should get a really rip and rock guitar player. One of the first choices was actually Pete Townsend.

[Janda]

Really?

[Christian Lane]

Yeah. He was not available. And they moved on. And they moved on to Eddie Van Halen. And Quincy gave him a call four times. According to legend. Eddie said three and four. Didn't believe him. Him didn't. Didn't believe it was Quincy basically said, hello, hey, this is Quincy Jones. Okay, hang up. Finally got him. Said, you know, we want you to play this solo. Eddie said, I will do it. Two conditions. I'm not credited and I don't tell my band. And Quincy was like, I have nothing to do with if you tell your band or not. But okay, side note, he was fully credited on the record.

[Janda]

I did want to point that out on the actual liner notes. You know, it says, you know, on Beat it, guitar solo provided by Eddie Van Halen. And he's thanked on the liner notes. And yeah, so he's credited.

[Christian Lane]

Eddie and Valerie Van Halen are thanked.

[Janda]

Yeah, right, right.

[Christian Lane]

He's fully credited. But, you know, that was part of the deal. He didn't take any money for it, which, yeah, I don't think he cared, but he. He could have gotten a real big payday off that. Basically, he went in rented Marshall amp and his Frankenstein guitar, which is the guitar that he built from all spare parts and got it playing how he wanted. Went in there two takes, improvised, and did it in two takes. I would love so much to hear the other take someday. If they would ever put that out, it'd be great.

[Janda]

Absolutely. And I'm glad you mentioned that because that has always been the legend, you know, that. That it was just a 10 minute thing. He went in there, he knocked that solo out, two takes, and that was it for Eddie Van Halen on Beat It. Wow.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah. He said he was there for maybe a total of a half hour, like setting up and playing and everything. Alex Van Halen was pissed. He said, you know, they had a rule that they didn't plan other people's record. They called it a no session man rule. And he broke it. And Eddie said. Eddie said to him, no one knows who this kid is anyway, don't worry about it. Got Alex even more upset. He said, you. You totally know you're lying right now. And, you know, he was like, you should save your best stuff for our records. But as it turns out, he still had plenty of stuff for the Van Halen records.

[Janda]

One of the reasons that we can focus in on Eddie Van Halen's solo on this song that wasn't a Van Halen song is because of the fact that there are so very many memorable Van Halen solos done. You know, you can kind of take your pick. This is just one of them. So he definitely didn't leave it all on the stage with Michael Jackson by any means, you know.

[Christian Lane]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I could have definitely gone with Eruption or any single song of theirs. He created a new style. Maybe he wasn't the first to do the tapping. Some say he wasn't that. It maybe was done in sort of classical guitar. He was definitely the first to popularize it and take it to new levels because of the way he approached the guitar. You have Tom Morello from Rage against the Machine. He used every inch of that guitar. And then, you know, around this time he decided he wanted to be a keyboard player. So, yeah, incredibly talented person. But I just love this solo on Beat it because like you said, you can hear it in your head as soon as it's mentioned. It's fun, it's nasty. I think it has almost every trick in his book. He's got the tapping, he's got the bends, he's got the fast picking. So there you go.

[Janda]

You know, it's interesting too, thinking about Eddie Van Halen while you're. While you're talking about it. Yeah, I mean, great solo in Beat It. This is a guy unlike Pete Townsend. I think Eddie Van Halen knew quite well the level of guitar master that he was. You know, how he would turn around and not face the audience so that people couldn't exactly see what he was doing because he knew what he was doing was so cutting edge, so special. So unique to him and that he was doing it all. All up and down the neck, all over the body of the guitar. Every single combination that you could put together, he was doing it. So, yeah, he'd turn around and put his back to the audience so nobody could walk. Watch his hands.

[Christian Lane]

That's a great story. Yeah, I mean, well, LA was very. That was that the rise of the hair metal bands and it was cut throat and everybody was trying to, you know, everybody wanted the hot guitar player too. That was the thing, you know. And like you said, he knew when he came out that what he was doing was gonna absolutely shock and awe people. So, yeah, he turned. He turned around so nobody could steal his licks. I don't. I don't actually blame him.

[Janda]

I should have mentioned. Yeah, that was back in the early days when they were doing club gigs in Hollywood and stuff. Yeah, he didn't want anybody else copping what he was doing. So. Yeah, I mean, we could probably do a whole episode just on Eddie Van Halen, you know, I mean, very easily. And. And we probably should. But I do think you're right. I do think that his solo on Michael Jackson's Beat it is a great example of the range of stuff that he could do in one set of 10 minute to take performances.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, it's just got everything. He threw everything in there. He knew he had plenty of stuff in his arsenal.

[Janda]

Well, I think that settles it. We're gonna have to do an episode on just Eddie Van Halen at some point and go through maybe five or six solos or something like that.

[Christian Lane]

Love to do it.

[Janda]

And on that note, let's wrap this one up. Christian, as always, thank you so much for hanging out with me and chatting about guitars and as always, for all your work on the behind the Song podcast.

[Christian Lane]

Appreciate you, as always. It's my pleasure.

[Janda]

And on the way, much more classic rock and roll.