Janda and Christian talk "November Rain," GNR's lost summer in Chicago, and more!

Summary

Behind The Song: Guns N' Roses' "November Rain," Chicago Chaos, and the Creative Bonds Behind the Music

Podcast Information:

• Title: Behind The Song
• Host/Author: The Drive | Hubbard Radio
• Description: Delve into the lyrics of classic rock songs and the storytellers behind them in "Behind The Song," a podcast of essays by The Drive's Janda Lane. Explore the behind-the-scenes moments during the creation of some of rock history's most iconic tracks.
• Episode: Janda and Christian talk "November Rain," GNR's lost summer in Chicago, and more!
• Release Date: November 25, 2024

---

Introduction to "November Rain"

Janda Lane opens the episode by revisiting the monumental Guns N' Roses track "November Rain," highlighting Axl Rose's commitment to recording the song properly—or else he would quit the music business. This dedication underscores the song's significance in the band's repertoire.

Christian Lane expands on the song's unique structure:

“It's hard to call a nine-minute song catchy because you usually think of a catchy song being like a little two, three-minute pop song. But it speaks to the quality of the song itself... it's like that of a song, you know, it's the godfather of hard rock.”
[01:19]

Christian draws parallels between "November Rain" and epic films like "The Godfather," emphasizing its enduring appeal despite its length.

Influences and Musical Composition

Janda notes Axl Rose's admiration for Elton John, which influenced "November Rain." This inspiration added a new dimension to Guns N' Roses' music.

Christian reflects on Axl's diverse influences:

“When you find out that Axl loves Elton John, you have to consider him a little bit differently... he had good tastes, so you have to consider him differently.”
[01:41]

This revelation challenges the stereotypical perception of heavy metal artists, showcasing Axl's nuanced musical palette.

Guitar Dynamics: Slash's Brian May Influence

The conversation shifts to the guitar work in "November Rain." Christian likens Slash's solo to Brian May of Queen, highlighting its melodic beauty rather than just technical prowess.

“It's so very Brian May, so very Queen. It’s not a ripoff, but it's sort of in his style, in his feel.”
[02:34]

Janda plays a recreation of the solo, illustrating the Brian May-esque sound that complements the song's grandeur.

Christian further praises Slash's ability to infuse his unique influences:

“Slash is bringing his own influences into this thing and he's bringing his own tastes... they play for the song.”
[04:07]

This approach underscores the band's collaborative synergy, blending individual talents into cohesive masterpieces.

Guns N' Roses' Turbulent Summer in Chicago

The discussion transitions to the band's tumultuous summer in Chicago during the late '80s and early '90s. Janda recounts how the band's manager relocated them from Los Angeles to Chicago's Wrigleyville to minimize distractions and focus on their work.

Christian provides a vivid depiction of Wrigleyville at the time:

“Right next door to... a bar called Raw Bar and Shout Out Tony. All the waitresses wore Doc Martens and had long black hair and tattoos... Cubs fans... a lot of bar crawlers.”
[07:04]

This relocation, intended to create a more controlled environment, ironically placed the band in the heart of a vibrant and chaotic nightlife scene.

The "Spaghetti Incident" Anecdote

A humorous yet telling story emerges about the band's antics in Chicago. Janda explains how the "Spaghetti Incident" album title originated from the band's habit of throwing pasta takeout onto the sidewalks:

“They were ordering Italian food a takeout, and then they just start lobbing it onto the sidewalk below on Clark Street.”
[10:35]

Christian speculates on the likely source of the pasta:

“They were ordering from Leonas... their takeout was phenomenal.”
[11:06]

This lighthearted moment underscores the band's wild lifestyle juxtaposed against their creative endeavors.

Band Dynamics and Changes

Janda reflects on the internal dynamics of Guns N' Roses during the "Use Your Illusion" era, highlighting the departure of drummer Steven Adler and the subsequent challenges in finding a suitable replacement.

Christian emphasizes Adler's underrated contribution:

“Steven Adler, maybe one of the more underrated drummers in rock and roll.”
[16:24]

He contrasts Adler's vibrant drumming with Matt Sorum's more powerful and steady style, noting how the band's sound evolved with the change in drummers.

The Role of Del James

Towards the episode's conclusion, Janda introduces Del James, Guns N' Roses' long-time road manager and creative collaborator. James's short story "Without You" served as the foundation for three of the band's iconic music videos: "Use Your Illusion I & II," "Don't Cry," and "November Rain."

Janda shares insights into the profound impact of Del James:

“Friendships do. So hats off to Del James and Axel and Guns N' Roses... friends that you keep, especially creative ones.”
[21:32]

Christian echoes this sentiment, praising the meaningful and fortuitous nature of creative partnerships.

Conclusion and Reflections

The episode wraps up with Janda and Christian reflecting on the enduring legacy of Guns N' Roses, the creative genius behind their music, and the importance of personal connections in the creative process. Christian sums up his admiration for Slash:

“He just seems like the greatest dude.”
[14:23]

Janda concurs, highlighting the contrasting personalities of Slash and Axl Rose as a key factor in the band's memorable chemistry.

---

Key Takeaways:

• "November Rain" stands as a testament to Guns N' Roses' musical depth and Axl Rose's uncompromising standards.
• Slash's guitar work is influenced by iconic musicians like Brian May, adding a melodic layer to GNR's hard rock sound.
• The band's relocation to Chicago's Wrigleyville was intended to foster creativity but resulted in unexpected chaos and memorable anecdotes.
• Del James played a crucial role in translating the band's experiences and stories into timeless music videos, demonstrating the power of creative collaborations.
• Band Dynamics: The transition from Steven Adler to Matt Sorum marked a significant shift in Guns N' Roses' musical landscape, reflecting the challenges and evolution inherent in long-standing bands.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Christian Lane:
  “It's hard to call a nine-minute song catchy because you usually think of a catchy song being like a little two, three-minute pop song. But it speaks to the quality of the song itself... it's like that of a song, you know, it's the godfather of hard rock.”
  [01:19]

• Christian Lane:
  “Slash is bringing his own influences into this thing and he's bringing his own tastes... they play for the song.”
  [04:07]

• Christian Lane:
  “Steven Adler, maybe one of the more underrated drummers in rock and roll.”
  [16:24]

• Janda Lane:
  “Friendships do. So hats off to Del James and Axel and Guns N' Roses... friends that you keep, especially creative ones.”
  [21:32]

---

Final Thoughts

In this episode of "Behind The Song," Janda Lane and Christian Lane offer an intimate glimpse into the creative processes, personal dynamics, and unforgettable moments that shaped one of rock's most legendary bands. From the intricate layers of "November Rain" to the raucous summer in Chicago, the conversation paints a vivid picture of Guns N' Roses' journey, enriched by enduring friendships and artistic collaborations.

For classic rock enthusiasts and curious newcomers alike, this episode provides a comprehensive understanding of the factors that propelled Guns N' Roses to iconic status, celebrating both their musical prowess and the human stories behind the legends.

Transcript

[Christian Lane]

97.1Fm the drive presents the behind the Song podcast, taking you deeper into classic rock's most timeless tunes. Here's your host, Janda.

[Janda]

Yes, I'm Janda, host of the behind the Song podcast. I'm joined today by Christian Lane, who produces the music for this podcast. Hey, Christian.

[Christian Lane]

Hey, Janda.

[Janda]

So we're here to talk about some of the stuff that didn't make it into the last episode of behind the Song about Guns N Roses, November Rain, the epic tune that Axl Rose said he would quit the music business if it wasn't recorded properly. And what a doozy this song is. Am I right?

[Christian Lane]

It's hard to call a nine minute song catchy because you usually think of a catchy song being like a little two, three minute pop song. But it speaks to the quality of the song itself. Like think of a long like the Godfather. Think of a three hour movie and at some point you realize, I'm not ready to leave. You don't even get up to go to the bathroom. It's that, it's like that of a song, you know, it's the, it's the godfather of hard rock. You just listen to the song and it's, it's catchy. I mean, that's, to me, that's how it got on the charts like that. Such a big unwieldy beast of a song, you know, was able to land with so many people.

[Janda]

Axl Rose is a huge Elton John fan. It sort of lends this song and the fact that it was inspired by Love Lies Bleeding, Funeral for a friend, mid-70s Elton John. It lends something to Guns N Roses music that didn't exist before this song was released. Right?

[Christian Lane]

Yeah. When you find out that Axl loves Elton John, you have to consider him a little bit differently. I did anyway at the time, Heavy metal for me was just, it was very cartoonish. You know, Axl Rose comes along and his influences were great. You know, they really were. He had good tastes, so you have to consider him differently.

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[Christian Lane]

As much as it's compared to funeral for a Friend. I've always thought of that song November Rain as Guns N Roses, Bohemian Rhapsody, something I discovered working on it. There's a. There's a part where Slash does such a Brian May. And it's. It's not a ripoff, but it's sort of a. In his style, in his feel. It's so very Brian May, so very Queen.

[Janda]

Should we hear a little bit of it?

[Christian Lane]

Yes.

[Janda]

So that was one of the guitar solos, one of many in November Rain by Guns N Roses. That was you, Christian, playing that for the recreation of the song for the podcast. Now it does kind of sound like Brian May as opposed to, you know, anyone that may have played with Elton John.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the Slash. There's nowhere written that Slash had to love Elton John as well, you know, and so Slash is bringing his own influences into this thing and he's bringing his own tastes. And, you know, I think that's part of why Guns N Roses work. So any great band that's. That's kind of why they work is people bringing their own taste to the mix and it being accepted and becoming part of the mix. And, you know, as you mentioned, I was trying to count solos. I'm not really sure. I think that's solo number three. It depends on how you look at it. I think that's solo number three. And yeah, it's just. It fits the part of the song so beautifully, which, you know, is another, you know, hallmark of any great guitar player. They. They play for the song. And, you know, as much as you think of Slash as a fret, you know, firing monster, and he is, he's, you know, he's got moments of just beauty and, you know, sort of a delicate touch to bring some beauty to a part.

[Janda]

All right, let's hear a little bit of what you're talking about with Slash. You know, one of the interesting things about making this song and putting together the songs for the Use youe Illusion albums was the fact that by the late 80s, Guns N Roses were, you know, the wild rock and roll boys that now had all that Appetite for Destruction money from their debut, which was one of the, you know, biggest selling debuts of all time. So at this point, they were like, well entrenched into the hard rock lifestyle as if they weren't already. So I found it very interesting that their manager had the bright idea to take these newly rich rock boys and transplant them from their haunts in Los Angeles to the city of Chicago, where, you know, perhaps they wouldn't have as many distractions you know, nightlife and that kind of thing in Chicago, as in Los Angeles. So.

[Christian Lane]

And did they put them in a very quiet part of Chicago?

[Janda]

Yeah, yeah. So. So the. What they did was they, they. They dropped the band into a few condos in the heart of Wrigleyville. Okay. Like no big deal. Like, okay. And in the, you know, late 80s, early 90s, it was just all bars, you know, right around, right around Wrigley Field, sports bars, dance clubs. I mean, it was. It's all. Wrigleyville has always been kind of a party place. Now, now these days, in. In this day and time, it's, you know, a little gentrified and a little bit nicer and more family friendly. But you lived here in Chicago back in the day and it was a different kind of Wrigleyville back then, wasn't it?

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, it was not family fun on every corner and sort of high end boutique hotels, you know, next to a very high end boutique bar with cool small plates. No, it was none of that.

[Janda]

It was sports bars and. What?

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, dive bars. It was sports bars and dive bars and you know, I mean, okay, so there was. Right next door to, I believe it was still called Cabaret Metro at the time was a bar called Raw Bar and Shout Out Tony. All the waitresses wore Doc Martens and had long black hair and tattoos. And that was sort of the place. You know, the vibe of the people hanging around the Metro and that area. And then, you know, you had Cubs fans during the season, but honestly, it was just a lot of bar crawlers. I mean, also, you got to remember when I was, you know, working at Wrigley Field around that time.

[Janda]

Oh, that's right. You worked at Wrigley Field.

[Christian Lane]

I did.

[Janda]

You had a uniform and everything, didn't you?

[Christian Lane]

Oh, yeah, That's a whole other podcast.

[Janda]

What so much did, though. You were a vendor.

[Christian Lane]

I worked in the skyboxes or in the. Well, the. I guess they were skyboxes now. They're so nice and everything. But I worked for the, you know, I brought dessert around to sky boxes and I had super long hair that I had to tuck up into my Cubs hat every day. And you know, but it was cool, you know, Cause like, you know, you had like Al Jorgensen from ministry coming to games and Eddie Vedder coming to games. And it was just that that was kind of the vibe of Wrigleyville at that time. But also remember there were signs up everywhere from missing people that it turned out, you know, it was Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Janda]

Oh, Right, yes. In the, like, 89. 90, 91.

[Christian Lane]

90, yeah. 90, 91. There was still signs up for missing people that turned out to be victims of Jeffrey Dahmer. I mean, that was kind of. What was. It was not. It was seedy. Yeah. What an absolutely terrible idea that was. I mean, I get the idea is that, okay, these gu. Might have certain proclivities, and they're easy to obtain these things in Los Angeles, where they know they're. Let's just say, where they know they're dealers and so forth, and let's get them out of there. It's a tried and true sort of thing, you know, take the band out of their natural habitat and put them somewhere a little bit, you know, more tame.

[Janda]

Yeah, right.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah. I mean, that's the idea, you know, I mean, when Nirvana made their second record. Well, third record, technically, but when they made their record with Albini, they were, like, no distractions. And they got a studio in the middle of the woods in Minnesota. That is the kind of idea that is what you. That's what they were going for. But instead, they put him in the middle of Wrigleyville in Chicago, and they rehearsed up above the Metro.

[Janda]

So imagine this, okay? So they're on the fourth floor of the Metro building. They're doing their rehearsals. They're doing this because they need to get on tour. They're setting off for the world tour to tour behind use youe Illusion 1 and 2, which, by the way, the track listing hasn't even been finalized or even close yet. This is in the. In the summer before the album came out, they were still putting it together. So everybody in the band except for Axl is in Chicago. So slash and Duff McKagan are kind of leading the charge back in their party days of, you know, frequenting all of the bars and. And all of the goods available around around them, let's say, in between their condo and the Metro. And they are just basically raising hell. I mean, the Spaghetti Incident, the album. Yes, okay. Yes, that. This is something interesting that I found out. The Spaghetti Incident album was thus named the one that came after Use youe Illusion, because they were ordering Italian food a takeout, and then they just start lobbing it onto the sidewalk below on Clark street. There. A literal spaghetti incident.

[Christian Lane]

I mean, I have a hunch. It's just a hunch, and I did not research this at all, but my gut tells me that they were ordering from Leonas, because at the time, that was. You know, not only did they have, like, A three story restaurant in Wrigleyville that was very popular. But their takeout was phenomenal, and I'm sure they did. It was, you know, Leona's family friendly food. And I'm sure they were just getting piles of pasta from Leona's. That's my. That's. That's my hunch.

[Janda]

Well, you're probably right. And piles of pasta ended up on the sidewalk on Clark street, some on top of unsuspecting passersby. Thus the title of the spaghetti incident. I mean, whoever thought that you could put take band like. Like Guns N Roses, you know, one of the hottest bands in the world at their peak, and stick them in the, you know, one of the busiest and most fun sections of the city of Chicago. I don't know.

[Christian Lane]

That person probably can't take these boys anywhere.

[Janda]

You can't take them anywhere. And Axl didn't even show up until like the last couple days. And he was just completely like, you know, he wasn't interested.

[Christian Lane]

He didn't like anything. Right. He didn't like any of this stuff.

[Janda]

Yeah. So they're in there between quote unquote, rehearsing and quote unquote, working on songs. You know, basically it was. That was just a hot mess the whole time in Chicago. But, I mean, by all accounts, they did have a very good time here.

[Christian Lane]

Oh, I bet they did. I bet they had an excellent time. Chicago's a fun place to party. I don't think. I don't think it's a great place to get any work done if your name is Slash.

[Janda]

Right. Okay, right. In like, 1991. No, not at all. But yeah, that's definitely. I mean, now Chicago's completely interwoven into the history and lore of Guns N Roses. So I thought that was super fun.

[Christian Lane]

I will always love Slash for a number of reasons, but the main. The thing I think about Slash is you and I lived in Los Angeles for 20 years. Yeah, slash loved El Coyote on Sunset, a famous Mexican restaurant.

[Janda]

I've seen him there. Yep.

[Christian Lane]

Yeah, it's probably as much known for the margaritas as the food, I would say. Or just the, you know, it's like a rock and roll spot. Little trivia. It was the last place that Sharon Tate dined. That's right. In Los Angeles.

[Janda]

That's right.

[Christian Lane]

That. The night of that horrible night, she dined at El Coyote, kind of a hipster rock spot. Anyway, the thing I love about Slash so much is that he is always the same person, because as you mentioned, we've seen him there. And he is just always the same affable dude. He. He's just great. He never changes his character. I just imagine that's who he is 24 hours a day. I, I, I've seen him enough times that it was almost like a nod, you know, and you see some, you know, just a quick nod and you see somebody. And one time I was using the bathroom, and I felt. I felt him. I felt Slash nearby.

[Janda]

You felt his presence in the top hat?

[Christian Lane]

I felt. Yeah, I felt the top. No lie. I felt the maybe. I saw the shadow of the top hat. We are at the trough, if you will. And I look to my right, and it's. It is Slash. And he looks at me, and I look at him and I say, hey, Slash. And he says, hey, guy. And that, to me is just. It's Slash. He's just that guy right there. All he cares about is, I don't know, probably just playing guitar, having fun. You know, he's a bit Nigel Tufnell. He's just great. He's just. He just seems like the greatest dude.

[Janda]

You know, Obviously, you have Slash, who is kind of known for being that way, at least most of the time, and then Axel, who is decidedly, you know, more mercurial. And, you know, you never know what you're gonna get with Axl. He might freak out. You know, he might have something to say. But that's Axl. And the two of them together really, really made one of. One of the most memorable hard rock bands I think of all time. I mean, the rest of the band, for sure. Duff, absolutely. You know, Izzy in the day, all the, all the guys. Steven Adler. I mean, we talked about this a little bit going back to November Rain. One of the reasons that the band was in such a state when they were making use youe illusion 1 and 2 is because, you know, that was kind of the. The end of the road for Steven Adler. And without him, you know, not. Not bad or negative in any way, just different. The sound of the music was always just gonna sound different because without his style of drumming, you had a very different sound. So that is one of the reasons that it took a while for the Use youe Illusion albums to get made and released. Yeah.

[Christian Lane]

You know, Steven Adler, maybe one of the more underrated drummers in rock and roll.

[Janda]

Agreed.

[Christian Lane]

Simply because, as you said, it's such a different band without him. And for me, Appetite, part of the reason why it works so well is, you know, you can hear his smile through his playing, and his playing sounds Happy. There's a bounce to it. I think everybody's. You know, people have talked about that there's a bounce to his playing. And you take that dark material and those heavy riffs, but then you put it with that bounce. And I just. That's. I think on the music end, that's part of what made that stuff so accessible for people. It just. It had a swing to it. And the Guns N Roses with Matt Sorum is a more. It sounds more like a semi truck running down the highway. You know, it's just got steam and power. I think they were probably, as you said, I think they were probably in a real state of, like, what do we. First of all, you got to find a drummer that works now. And now that we've. We've got a perfect formula going. Let's. Okay, now we don't. And now, you know, it's not the guys that came up together and lived in one room together and starved together and did all that. Now you're all rich and like, oh, we have auditions and we can have probably any drummer we want because we're so big. And that's a lot. And these are still young men at the time. These are not, you know, these are not like wizened, old, you know, music biz vets.

[Janda]

I don't think they'd cracked 30 yet.

[Christian Lane]

No. None of them so hard berth for that record. But understandable when you start looking at the situation. New drummer and the Chicago incident, we'll call it.

[Janda]

Yeah. Stephen Adler, one of the greats. Before. Before we wrap up here, I did want to touch a little bit on another thing that I was very interested to find out more about in the Guns N Roses world is Del James. So Del James is now their road manager for many, many years. I kind of think of him as like a little Renaissance type because he's a writer. He's, you know, made music videos. But he is a friend and ally to Axl and to Guns N Roses, the band. And they met back in 85 when everybody landed in Los Angeles, pretty much. And he's basically been a part of the group in some way or affiliated with Guns N Roses, you know, since those days. And it's. His short story without you is the basis for the trilogy of videos released from use youe Illusion 1 and 2, don't cry, estranged, and of course, November Rain. Without you is about a character named Main man, which is really closely based on Axl Rose and his girlfriend, who commits suicide in the story, because the Main man character is you know, a cheater. So. And then he, you know, falls off the rails after her suicide. And in the end, he is taking copious amounts of drugs and drinking and doesn't realize that he set his own apartment on fire as the song without you that he wrote about the incident has. Is playing in the background. I mean, that's the story in without you. So that was the basis of all three of these videos that Andy Morahan directed.

[Christian Lane]

And he didn't write any of these treatments for the videos. Right. This all came from this short story.

[Janda]

All came from the short story. Andy Moran picked it up and brought it to visual life. I think about that and I think about, you know, friends that. That I have had over, over my lifetime. And moral is you never know when someone's going to contribute something in your life that will be so impactful in a way that you can't imagine when you first meet them. I would be willing to bet that the first time Axl Rose met Del James, probably down on the Sunset Strip somewhere, Rainbow Bar and Grill or Whiskey or whatever, Troubadour, I would imagine that they probably just gelled as friends and then, you know, it probably never occurred to either one of them that something like this would happen and that a short story would be written and a video would be made, and then that later on, decades later, that that video would get to a billion views and be the first one to do it before YouTube even existed. It's amazing to me when you hear about these, these little, you know, slices of life, the happenstance moments and the people that you meet and bring along.

[Christian Lane]

It's so true when you, when you spark with somebody, those are going to be the people that make a meaningful difference and just an incredibly fortuitous meeting of those guys.

[Janda]

And on that note, you know, I think that's the takeaway, really, from November Rain. Love stories don't work out, but, you know, hopefully your friendships do. So hats off to Del James and, and Axel and Guns N Roses and. And for anybody who keeps a friend, especially a creative one. And speaking of creative friends, thank you, Christian, for joining me on another bonus episode of behind the Song. It's always fun to chat with you about some of the stuff that we find out when we're making these episodes. So cool. Thank you.

[Christian Lane]

This is what we do all day, so it's always great fun for me.

[Janda]

And if you like this bonus episode of the behind the Song podcast, give it a, like, hit. Subscribe and tell a friend. And on the way, much more classic rock and roll.