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[00:03]
A
I move by what I feel. I don't live by what I see because my God has made a way for me. Hello, everybody. Welcome again today to the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast. And we're still discussing blood covenants. And may I remind you that Kenneth Copeland Bible College teaches this. And Professor Greg Stephens is. Since he's studied the Hebrew language and has a certificate saying that he is a Hebrew scholar. And I look at some of these words and I look over there at him and I think, did I get that right or not? Now, back in the day when they were. They finally had permission to go into the Cherokee burial grounds. Where is it? Cherokee? North Carolina. And when they did, they found Middle Eastern alloy and bracelets and so forth that had these inscriptions on there. Well, since Sequoia developed the Cherokee Alphabet, they said, well, no, wait a minute, this would have been way back before Sequoia. And they took it to. No, he said, that's Palean Hebrew. Well, that's it.
[01:48]
B
Symbols, pictures for letters.
[01:51]
A
Our prophet. I'm a grandfather's blood Cherokee. And like I said before, I had my DNA and, and found a couple of tribes I never heard of. But anyway, the Cherokee was there, so our prophet's name was Mises. Amen. And you can follow our heritage back to the Middle East. So through all of the writings and everything, they believe that the Cherokee descended from the Jewish people.
[02:38]
B
I don't doubt that they were dispersed into all the earth. God sowed his people.
[02:44]
A
And so many of the Cherokee practices follow the book. We were called the clean people. And one of my great aunts, she had something wrong with her lip. And. And my mother said, odie, that's just the devil. She said, veneta, I'll have you know, we're clean people. She was Christian, she didn't know anything about resisting the devil. We're clean people. Well, that's where that came from. And they would go to the river several times a day and you like having your oven in the kitchen? You like that? Well, John Ross, principal chief of the Cherokee, when these ignorant savages can't cope with civilization, when they got to his brick home where they had developed, I mean, they lived in teepees, they learned how to get smoke out of there. So then in their kitchens, they vented the smoke out through the top and he had a brick home and his savage brother was a law graduate. Anyway, back to the book.
[04:32]
B
Hebrews 12, where we left off.
[04:34]
A
Yeah, I want in. Hebrews 10:38. Now, the just shall live by faith. But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no presence in him. But we are not of them that draw back unto perdition, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. And you go through all of this. Now, here we go by faith. The harlot Rahab always, always mentioned that. But don't be careful of that because she's David's great grandmother and Jesus. Great, great, great grandmother. Mm. So we have a harlot in our bloodline.
[05:23]
B
But praise God.
[05:25]
A
Yeah. Amen. It's people that can't deal with that. God dealt with that very handsomely and saw that she was desired greatly because she was a beautiful woman. But she hid the spies and said, you take care of my family and I'll do it. I'll go with you. Now, here we are. Verse 40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect or blameless. Wherefore, God seeing we also are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking unto Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him. Now you see the qualifications. The hall of fame of faith.
[06:41]
B
That's right.
[06:44]
A
Now let me say this. If someone had no reward at all, but he made it, just being there. If you didn't do anything but tend the garden, the gardens are beautiful. But you see the qualifications. My long time personal, very close friend for over 40 years, Pat Robertson. When I got my DVD about David, I didn't realize it was going to be the last one. He would do the CDs about it. He wrote a book about it and he did an audio book. So now I have his voice, same as I have Brother Hagin's voice. So I have it. He is. He qualifies for life of soul winning by faith. Glory to God. He started out in television. We wound up there. But he and I were very close over the years and it's just amazing things that happened. And I told you before about. I'll tell you, we were in. We had 40 years that we had had our ministry in the United Kingdom. And so we were celebrating that and. Oh, my. I texted Gordon, I said, how's he doing? He said, he's not doing all that well. I said, well, I'm going to come see him. He said, the sooner the better. And so instead of clearing customs here at alliance in Fort Worth, we just landed in Norfolk, Virginia. Eric was there to meet me. And I walked out, got out of customs, and there he stood. I thought. I looked at him and I said, man, you everywhere. I wasn't expecting him to be there, but he just. He already had the directions over there. He's put me in a car and drove me. And so I walked in there, and Gordon then came in there. And of course, he was on that hospital bed, and he pretty well wasted away, you know. But anyway, and he turned around and he smiled and he grabbed me by my coat and he pulled me down, and he just started talking to me and laughing. I anointed him with oil and prayed over him and started to leave. And he pulled me back down again, and he kept pulling me back down. And, oh, glory to God, I'm so glad I went. So glad I went. And now there are certain things that I have. Are very precious to me because it's been a long time, a lot of years. It's a good thing now. That's who these people are. Oral Roberts is one of those. Kenneth E. Hagin is one of those.
[10:20]
B
Absolutely.
[10:20]
A
Billy Graham is one of them. Sure. I'm just talking about the ones that I know. Sure. And of course, there are others. I mean, T.L. lowry, my. My Marcello Tear. Now, Marciarullo was at the same time as these other. But he went to Europe and Marshalo's Jewish, and he. And Teresa Mc and T.C.
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B
That'S right.
[10:55]
A
And I said, I don't feel right calling about it. He said, would you please call us that? He said, I'm MC and she's Teresa.
[11:06]
B
Is TC he did the same thing to me.
[11:08]
A
Correct. Okay. I called him Mr. Mc and he. Yeah, he wasn't like that at all. And then there's Justice Duplessis. He interpreted for Smith Wigglesworth. And I met him in Full Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship in Memphis, Tennessee. And I had lunch. He said, young man. He said. He told me he interpreted for Smith. He said, I interpreted for Smith Wigglesworth. And of course, he had that South African accent. And he said, you're preaching the same sermons, and you sound a great deal like him. Whoa.
[12:01]
B
Same Holy Spirit.
[12:02]
A
Yeah, same Holy Spirit.
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B
John G. Lake. I mean, just go down the list.
[12:06]
A
And John G. Lake. We had John G. Lake's sermons, so we did a book on him and put those Sermons into Print. The Great Cloud of Witnesses.
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B
Lester Sumrall.
[12:23]
A
Lester Sumrall. My, my, my, my. I've sat down with him in a restaurant and I said, sir, what do you attribute your. Your living so long? He said, I am intensely interested in what I'm doing. I can.
[12:51]
B
I'll never forget something he said at Rhema when I was a student there. He said, I've always been in every move of God. I remember that, whether it's the tent meetings or full gospel businessmen or whatever. He said, I never got stuck in my revelation. He said, when I would see the fingerprint of God on something, I would cooperate with it and get in it.
[13:16]
A
Yeah. And come to that effect. He discussed that with me in the fact that he said, I want to be a. I don't want to be an old wine bottle.
[13:27]
B
That was it.
[13:28]
A
He said, I want a bridge. He said, I've asked God for a bridge. I want to move over there in that next move. And he said, I want to do that until the day I depart. Because he said, I'm intensely interested in what God is doing. And he said, I want to be there till the day I die.
[13:45]
B
I was sitting on the beach. I pastored in San Diego, California. I was sitting on the beach in Del Mar one day and. I'm sorry, that's right. That's not correct. I was at the. Right there on the Strand where it happened. And I was looking at the ocean, and I heard the spirit of the Lord say to me, the greatest resistance to a new wave is the previous wave going out.
[14:10]
A
That's it.
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And our membered breast of summer. All that. Now, see, that's exactly what this is right here.
[14:17]
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Yes, it is.
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We're accompanied by. With a great cloud of witnesses. Let us lay aside every weight.
[14:23]
A
Yes, all these are gone. Yeah, that's all these are gone.
[14:26]
B
This is a transition into our New Testament, in our new Covenant and to consider him. Those are the first Covenant people. Now there's a New Covenant group. And so we have to lay aside the things that hold us back. I don't know. I used to love to watch Olympic sports. Runners, skiers, swimmers, and those swimmers. I remember Mark Spitz had a mustache and all these and their long hair. But they learned that that was slowing them down. Then they began wearing those caps. They started even guys shaving their legs and all. Nothing to create dragons in the water or running. That's laying aside the things that slow you down.
[15:08]
A
You should hear Oral Roberts preach on that. It'd take him two and A half hours. And they had to edit down his broadcast. And he'd start here like this, and then he'd get over here and there'd be some sweat here. And you get over here and his hair is down and he's over here. But, you know, sometimes it wasn't all that cool in those tents. And. But this man believed God. First thing he had to do is get over stuttering so bad he couldn't say his name. He stuttered so badly he had tuberculosis. He was dying. He had. He. He was right at the point of death. And he had coughed in his bedroom until they. They had to put plastic sheeting of some kind up on the wall. And then eventually had to redo the wall because he spit blood all over that. And so his brother came out there and got him and picked him up. This man, six, three, picked him up and carried him out to the car and took him to a tent meeting brother Muncie and took him up there and took the seat out of the car and had him out there listening to Brother Muncie. And he was the last one he prayed for. He said, bring that young man up here to me. Got him up on the platform and he laid hands on him. He said, take a deep breath. And Oral said. I took a deep breath. And he said, before it had been just like needles and pins. He said, I took a deep breath. And another stuttered again. Never.
[16:59]
B
Now think about Brother Muncie being obedient. Think about the people who sowed in Brother Muncie's ministry. Let me show you this. Let's go back to Hebrews 11 again, verse 39. And these all having obtained a good report through faith.
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Yes.
[17:18]
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Received not the promise. That's not us. We've received the promise.
[17:21]
A
Yes. Then he gets down here and said, consider him. He's the promise.
[17:25]
B
There's the promise, the fulfiller of the thing.
[17:28]
A
And then as you. As you study through the book of Hebrews, then all of this is reflecting Jesus did. But it goes back to the law. It goes back to the prophets. It goes back to the sacrifices. And.
[17:52]
B
So the book is called God, the covenant, the contradiction. Look at Hebrews, chapter 12, verse 2. Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross.
[18:05]
A
Satan.
[18:05]
B
Psalm 22. We talked about it this week. Despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of God, or the throne of God right now. For consider him that endured such contradiction.
[18:16]
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There it is. That's where the Title of the book.
[18:21]
B
Comes from Sinners against himself. Lest you be wearied and faint. Look where it says in your minds. There are some people right now that you're. You're mentally wore out. And you're mentally wore out because you're worried about this and you're worried about that. And you haven't considered him, the promise who saved you, somebody. Now even you've just had horrible lightheadedness and headaches. And that's coming from the worry and the stress.
[18:51]
A
And you need to.
[18:52]
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What we've talked about all week long, rolling this off onto him. Consider him who endured such. So that you don't have to walk that now that means we have to lay aside some weights. We've got to make some changes. We've got to go from divine.
[19:07]
A
I can just see this guy out there trying to run with a big heavy overcoat on.
[19:13]
B
That's it.
[19:16]
A
And all of a sudden that thing falls off. Well, let's go to Bob Deweese, who was my captain. He was captain of the airplane. And he. I learned so much because I stayed. When we were in hotels together, we stayed right close together because I was co pilot on that airplane. And he said, one day I want you to come in and pray with me. Well, I went in there. I'd never seen anybody pray like that. He just fell on his face and just went after it. And then he said, okay, that did that. I thought, boy, I'm going to pray like him. And people of faith. Well, he had a heart attack on a handball court. And he was telling. He and Charlotte were telling Gloria and I about this. He was telling about the whole thing. I knew that that had happened, but I anyway, and listen to what he said now. He said, Kenneth, he said, all of us just suddenly he said, I don't remember anything about that hard time. He didn't remember anything about it. He said, suddenly I was in the most beautiful place I'd ever seen in my life. And he said I was on a small road. And he said, kenneth, I had so much power in my legs, see, he wasn't aware. He didn't have a body. He was perfectly at home. But he wasn't aware of that. He said, I walked over there. He said there was a fence on each side of the road. He said, I walked over there and examined one of them. As close as I could tell it was hand carved mahogany. He said, it's the most beautiful thing you'd ever seen in your life. And he said, I looked up and he said, I Saw these lights in these lush green countryside. And he said, I'm home. He said, I started running. He said I had such power in my legs and. But he said I started bogging down and couldn't figure out why. And he said, all of a sudden, I was back there in the City of Faith and with the paddles on. And Charlotte said, kenneth. And of course, Gloria standing. He said, kenneth, do you think. He said, charlotte, thank you for saving my life? No, he said, charlotte, what did you do that for? He didn't want to come back. And he said, don't ever feel sorry for anyone. That goes. Then later, we were there at another thing. We walked out the yard there of his home and was stood out in front of a tree. He said, kenneth, I don't know how long I'm going to stay here. I said, why? He said, heaven's pulling on me. Pulling on me, man.
[22:36]
B
That's divine life, Brother Copeland.
[22:38]
A
It's pulling on me. And sure enough, he left. It's situations like that that I've been blessed with over the years. I don't need proof. This book is proof. Yes, sir. But things like that, people that I know that I've experienced these things with, and that the supernatural part of it. Man by the name of Israel Rodriguez, pastor of the church in Puerto Rico. Faith people. Oemi is his wife's name. Well, I'd flown my mother and dad up to the City of Faith where she could get an examination. And so my dad, they were getting. I said, I'm going to go downstairs to the E.R. i said, the doctor down there is a good friend of mine, and I just want to go see her. And anyway, I went down there. Well, the bell rang and this ambulance pulled up. And this man in there said, see there, Noemi? I told you he'd be the first one I see. When I got here, they told him. He said, I'm going to City of Faith. I want you to get a hold of Kenneth. And I want to talk to him about my healing. She said, israel, you. I don't know how to get ahold of him. And the doctor said, well, he's liable to die on the way in a few. Charter an airplane. He said, he'll be the first one I see. I was standing there. He said, see? I told. See, he said it by faith.
[24:33]
B
Yeah, that's right.
[24:35]
A
He said it by faith. And we're out of time. But I'll finish that story because it's part of what I'm talking to you about. But we'll be back in just a moment.
[24:52]
C
Discover how simple the answer to every question and every problem in life can be in the Covenant and the Contradiction, a new book by Kenneth Copeland and Greg Stephens. In this approachable book, dive deep into what a covenant is and what it's for. Discover what your covenant does for you and learn to overcome every contradiction and obstacle. With every covenant promise comes a contradiction. When you read in the Bible that by Jesus stripes you're healed and the diagnosis comes back incurable, or when you're facing a towering stack of unpaid bills, when you read that God promises you prosperity, common sense and human reasoning rise up to shout, there's no way that God's promises will happen in your life. Thank God. Covenant men and women throughout time have refused the contradiction and praised through in faith to the end result the blessing promised by God. And you can too see the Bible unfold more clearly than ever before in God. The Covenant and the Contradiction the Covenant and the Contradiction by Kenneth Copeland and Greg Stevens is available to you now at a special limited time price of $13.99. Order your copy today at kcm.org tvspecial or call 830. Downloadable options are also available, so share this valuable resource with your family and friends. This special offer is good for only 60 days outside the U.S. shipping charges may apply. Contact your regional office for more information. Find something Life Giving on kcm.org, your study center for victory. View the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcasts on demand and study along with the daily broadcast notes. Or download the audio podcasts to listen on the go. Watch prior KCM events for hours with truth going in your eyes and ears. Wherever you are, get real help for real life problems. Follow our guide to Believe, Speak, Pray, Learn and apply your way to results from your couch, desk or kitchen table. Stay focused on truth by reading the devotional From Faith to Faith every day. Read interactive bvov magazines and click to unlock more content in each issue. Get a faith boost from testimonies of real life success from people just like you. Find information on what partnership means and take advantage of the resources provided just for you. Read archives of Kenneth Copeland's partner letter and download free books from our Bonus Library. Over 50 titles available to read on your phone, computer or e reader. KCM.org meets you where you are.
[27:23]
A
Just as they turned the camera on, I heard there's someone your jaw has been out of place or TMJ or whatever it is. I just want you to know Jesus is healing that right now and Lord, I'm asking you to touch that. It may be more than one of you, but the one I'm talking about is a woman. But that's going out. Wherever it is, it's yours. It belongs to you. Healing is a property. Jesus bought and paid for it for you. And thank you for being with us today. And, hey, we'll be here tomorrow. Until then, remember this. God loves you, we love you. And Jesus is your healer and your Lord.
[28:02]
B
Yes, he is.
[28:03]
A
I got it in there. Whoo. Kenneth and Gloria Copeland want to thank.
[28:09]
B
You for joining us on the Believer's.
[28:11]
A
Voice of Victory broadcast.
[28:13]
B
To learn more about Kenneth Copeland Ministries.
[28:15]
A
And how we can help you grow in faith, check out our Web site.
[28:18]
B
For free content and resources available to you on kcm.org.

Summary5 min read

Believer’s Voice of Victory Audio Podcast

Episode: Faith for a Lifetime 10/02
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Kenneth Copeland Ministries
Speakers: Kenneth Copeland (“A”), Greg Stephens (“B”)

Episode Overview

This episode continues the discussion on the theme of blood covenants and the enduring principles of faith, focusing on the legacy of faith-filled believers and how their examples and God’s promises empower Christians to live victoriously. Kenneth Copeland and Professor Greg Stephens draw connections between biblical teachings, personal experiences, and heritage—highlighting how faith and covenant promises transcend generations, cultures, and individual challenges.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heritage, History, and Spiritual Roots

Kenneth shares personal and Cherokee family history, revealing unexpected links between Cherokee and Hebrew culture.
- Notable anecdote: Discovery of Middle Eastern alloys and Paleo-Hebrew inscriptions in Cherokee burial sites ([00:15]).
- Cherokee traditions—being the “clean people”—paralleled biblical principles ([02:43]).
Faith journeys are generational and cross-cultural:
- “Through all of the writings...they believe that the Cherokee descended from the Jewish people.” – Kenneth ([02:37])
- “God sowed his people.” – Greg ([02:41])

2. Hall of Faith and Biblical Examples

Discussion of Hebrews 10–12:
- The importance of living by faith, not by sight or feeling ([04:34]).
- The lineage of Rahab, a “harlot” in Jesus’ ancestry, shows God’s redemptive power and inclusiveness ([05:00]).
- “If someone had no reward at all, but he made it, just being there...you see the qualifications. The hall of fame of faith.” – Kenneth ([06:43])
Transition from old to New Covenant, with Jesus as the author and finisher of faith ([05:40], [17:51]).

3. Personal Stories of Faith Giants

Personal relationships with prominent Christian leaders:
- Remembering Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Kenneth E. Hagin, Billy Graham, and others ([06:43]–[11:21]).
  - Story: Visiting Pat Robertson in his final days, cherishing his legacy ([06:43]–[09:50]).
- Insights from Lester Sumrall:
  - “I am intensely interested in what I’m doing.” ([12:22])
  - Never get “stuck” in revelation; be open to God’s new move ([12:51]).
  - “I want to be a bridge...I want to move over there in that next move...until the day I depart.” ([13:15])
- Connection to the great cloud of witnesses found in Hebrews 12 ([14:17]).

4. Spiritual Application: Laying Aside Weights

Motivation to "run the race" faithfully:
- Illustration with Olympic athletes—laying aside every unnecessary weight ([14:26]).
- “That’s laying aside the things that slow you down.” – Greg ([14:26])
- Oral Roberts’ miraculous healing from tuberculosis, demonstrating faith and overcoming adversity ([15:07]–[16:58]).

5. The Reality of the Covenant

The Book: "God, the Covenant, the Contradiction"
- When facing contradictions between God’s promises and reality, focus on Jesus and the covenant ([17:51]–[18:21]).
- “Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross.” – Greg ([17:51])
- Encouragement to “roll worries onto Him” and “lay aside some weights” ([18:51]).
Testimonies of encounters with the supernatural:
- Story of Bob Deweese’s near-death experience and vision of heaven ([19:16]–[22:36]).
  - “Don’t ever feel sorry for anyone that goes...Heaven’s pulling on me.” – Bob Deweese via Kenneth ([22:36])
- Testimony of Israel Rodriguez’s faith bringing him to just the right place at the right time ([23:51]).
  - “See, he said it by faith.” – Kenneth ([24:33])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Heritage:
“Our prophet’s name was Mises. Amen. And you can follow our heritage back to the Middle East...They believe the Cherokee descended from the Jewish people.”
—Kenneth ([01:50]–[02:37])
On Faith’s Hall of Fame:
“Now you see the qualifications. The hall of fame of faith.”
—Kenneth ([06:43])
On Staying Spiritually Vital:
“I want to be a bridge...I want to move over there in that next move...until the day I depart, because I’m intensely interested in what God is doing.”
—Lester Sumrall (as recalled by Kenneth, [13:15])
On the Challenge of Change:
“The greatest resistance to a new wave is the previous wave going out.”
—Greg ([14:10])
On Laying Aside Weights:
“Nothing to create drag in the water or running. That’s laying aside the things that slow you down.”
—Greg ([14:26])
On Miraculous Encounters and Testimonies:
“He said, Charlotte, why did you do that for? He didn’t want to come back...Heaven’s pulling on me, man.”
—Kenneth sharing Bob Deweese’s testimony ([22:36])
On Living by Faith:
“He said it by faith.”
—Kenneth ([24:33])

Timestamps of Important Segments

00:02 – Opening: Kenneth on faith vs. feelings; Cherokee-Hebrew parallels introduced.
04:31 – Hebrews 10–12: Living by faith, “hall of fame” of faith.
06:43–13:15 – Remembrances of faith giants, their influence, and lessons learned.
13:45–14:26 – Laying aside every weight: athletic metaphors and spiritual application.
15:07–16:58 – Oral Roberts’ healing testimony.
17:51–18:21 – “God, the Covenant, the Contradiction”; considering Jesus through hardship.
19:16–22:36 – Bob Deweese’s vision of heaven; the reality of divine life beyond death.
23:51–24:34 – Israel Rodriguez’s testimony: faith and divine appointment.
27:22 – Word of knowledge released: Healing for TMJ/jaw issues.

Encouragement & Final Takeaways

The episode challenges listeners to focus on God’s covenant promises, be inspired by the lives of faith’s giants—both from Scripture and modern history—and practice laying aside worry, fear, and anything else that hinders running the race of faith. Personal testimony underscores that God is still active and working powerfully today.

Quotes to Remember

"God loves you, we love you, and Jesus is your healer and your Lord." —Kenneth ([27:50])

Resources Mentioned

Book: “God, the Covenant, the Contradiction” by Kenneth Copeland and Greg Stephens ([17:51], promo at [24:52])
Website: www.kcm.org for free resources, devotionals, and on-demand teaching

This episode weaves scriptural teaching, personal legacy, and testimony into a compelling encouragement for Christians to live by faith, draw on their spiritual heritage, and confidently expect God’s best—no matter the contradiction.

Loading summary

Transcript64 lines

[00:03]
A
I move by what I feel. I don't live by what I see because my God has made a way for me. Hello, everybody. Welcome again today to the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcast. And we're still discussing blood covenants. And may I remind you that Kenneth Copeland Bible College teaches this. And Professor Greg Stephens is. Since he's studied the Hebrew language and has a certificate saying that he is a Hebrew scholar. And I look at some of these words and I look over there at him and I think, did I get that right or not? Now, back in the day when they were. They finally had permission to go into the Cherokee burial grounds. Where is it? Cherokee? North Carolina. And when they did, they found Middle Eastern alloy and bracelets and so forth that had these inscriptions on there. Well, since Sequoia developed the Cherokee Alphabet, they said, well, no, wait a minute, this would have been way back before Sequoia. And they took it to. No, he said, that's Palean Hebrew. Well, that's it.
[01:48]
B
Symbols, pictures for letters.
[01:51]
A
Our prophet. I'm a grandfather's blood Cherokee. And like I said before, I had my DNA and, and found a couple of tribes I never heard of. But anyway, the Cherokee was there, so our prophet's name was Mises. Amen. And you can follow our heritage back to the Middle East. So through all of the writings and everything, they believe that the Cherokee descended from the Jewish people.
[02:38]
B
I don't doubt that they were dispersed into all the earth. God sowed his people.
[02:44]
A
And so many of the Cherokee practices follow the book. We were called the clean people. And one of my great aunts, she had something wrong with her lip. And. And my mother said, odie, that's just the devil. She said, veneta, I'll have you know, we're clean people. She was Christian, she didn't know anything about resisting the devil. We're clean people. Well, that's where that came from. And they would go to the river several times a day and you like having your oven in the kitchen? You like that? Well, John Ross, principal chief of the Cherokee, when these ignorant savages can't cope with civilization, when they got to his brick home where they had developed, I mean, they lived in teepees, they learned how to get smoke out of there. So then in their kitchens, they vented the smoke out through the top and he had a brick home and his savage brother was a law graduate. Anyway, back to the book.
[04:32]
B
Hebrews 12, where we left off.
[04:34]
A
Yeah, I want in. Hebrews 10:38. Now, the just shall live by faith. But if any man draw back, my soul shall have no presence in him. But we are not of them that draw back unto perdition, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. And you go through all of this. Now, here we go by faith. The harlot Rahab always, always mentioned that. But don't be careful of that because she's David's great grandmother and Jesus. Great, great, great grandmother. Mm. So we have a harlot in our bloodline.
[05:23]
B
But praise God.
[05:25]
A
Yeah. Amen. It's people that can't deal with that. God dealt with that very handsomely and saw that she was desired greatly because she was a beautiful woman. But she hid the spies and said, you take care of my family and I'll do it. I'll go with you. Now, here we are. Verse 40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect or blameless. Wherefore, God seeing we also are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking unto Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him. Now you see the qualifications. The hall of fame of faith.
[06:41]
B
That's right.
[06:44]
A
Now let me say this. If someone had no reward at all, but he made it, just being there. If you didn't do anything but tend the garden, the gardens are beautiful. But you see the qualifications. My long time personal, very close friend for over 40 years, Pat Robertson. When I got my DVD about David, I didn't realize it was going to be the last one. He would do the CDs about it. He wrote a book about it and he did an audio book. So now I have his voice, same as I have Brother Hagin's voice. So I have it. He is. He qualifies for life of soul winning by faith. Glory to God. He started out in television. We wound up there. But he and I were very close over the years and it's just amazing things that happened. And I told you before about. I'll tell you, we were in. We had 40 years that we had had our ministry in the United Kingdom. And so we were celebrating that and. Oh, my. I texted Gordon, I said, how's he doing? He said, he's not doing all that well. I said, well, I'm going to come see him. He said, the sooner the better. And so instead of clearing customs here at alliance in Fort Worth, we just landed in Norfolk, Virginia. Eric was there to meet me. And I walked out, got out of customs, and there he stood. I thought. I looked at him and I said, man, you everywhere. I wasn't expecting him to be there, but he just. He already had the directions over there. He's put me in a car and drove me. And so I walked in there, and Gordon then came in there. And of course, he was on that hospital bed, and he pretty well wasted away, you know. But anyway, and he turned around and he smiled and he grabbed me by my coat and he pulled me down, and he just started talking to me and laughing. I anointed him with oil and prayed over him and started to leave. And he pulled me back down again, and he kept pulling me back down. And, oh, glory to God, I'm so glad I went. So glad I went. And now there are certain things that I have. Are very precious to me because it's been a long time, a lot of years. It's a good thing now. That's who these people are. Oral Roberts is one of those. Kenneth E. Hagin is one of those.
[10:20]
B
Absolutely.
[10:20]
A
Billy Graham is one of them. Sure. I'm just talking about the ones that I know. Sure. And of course, there are others. I mean, T.L. lowry, my. My Marcello Tear. Now, Marciarullo was at the same time as these other. But he went to Europe and Marshalo's Jewish, and he. And Teresa Mc and T.C.
[10:54]
B
That'S right.
[10:55]
A
And I said, I don't feel right calling about it. He said, would you please call us that? He said, I'm MC and she's Teresa.
[11:06]
B
Is TC he did the same thing to me.
[11:08]
A
Correct. Okay. I called him Mr. Mc and he. Yeah, he wasn't like that at all. And then there's Justice Duplessis. He interpreted for Smith Wigglesworth. And I met him in Full Gospel Businessmen's Fellowship in Memphis, Tennessee. And I had lunch. He said, young man. He said. He told me he interpreted for Smith. He said, I interpreted for Smith Wigglesworth. And of course, he had that South African accent. And he said, you're preaching the same sermons, and you sound a great deal like him. Whoa.
[12:01]
B
Same Holy Spirit.
[12:02]
A
Yeah, same Holy Spirit.
[12:03]
B
John G. Lake. I mean, just go down the list.
[12:06]
A
And John G. Lake. We had John G. Lake's sermons, so we did a book on him and put those Sermons into Print. The Great Cloud of Witnesses.
[12:22]
B
Lester Sumrall.
[12:23]
A
Lester Sumrall. My, my, my, my. I've sat down with him in a restaurant and I said, sir, what do you attribute your. Your living so long? He said, I am intensely interested in what I'm doing. I can.
[12:51]
B
I'll never forget something he said at Rhema when I was a student there. He said, I've always been in every move of God. I remember that, whether it's the tent meetings or full gospel businessmen or whatever. He said, I never got stuck in my revelation. He said, when I would see the fingerprint of God on something, I would cooperate with it and get in it.
[13:16]
A
Yeah. And come to that effect. He discussed that with me in the fact that he said, I want to be a. I don't want to be an old wine bottle.
[13:27]
B
That was it.
[13:28]
A
He said, I want a bridge. He said, I've asked God for a bridge. I want to move over there in that next move. And he said, I want to do that until the day I depart. Because he said, I'm intensely interested in what God is doing. And he said, I want to be there till the day I die.
[13:45]
B
I was sitting on the beach. I pastored in San Diego, California. I was sitting on the beach in Del Mar one day and. I'm sorry, that's right. That's not correct. I was at the. Right there on the Strand where it happened. And I was looking at the ocean, and I heard the spirit of the Lord say to me, the greatest resistance to a new wave is the previous wave going out.
[14:10]
A
That's it.
[14:11]
B
And our membered breast of summer. All that. Now, see, that's exactly what this is right here.
[14:17]
A
Yes, it is.
[14:17]
B
We're accompanied by. With a great cloud of witnesses. Let us lay aside every weight.
[14:23]
A
Yes, all these are gone. Yeah, that's all these are gone.
[14:26]
B
This is a transition into our New Testament, in our new Covenant and to consider him. Those are the first Covenant people. Now there's a New Covenant group. And so we have to lay aside the things that hold us back. I don't know. I used to love to watch Olympic sports. Runners, skiers, swimmers, and those swimmers. I remember Mark Spitz had a mustache and all these and their long hair. But they learned that that was slowing them down. Then they began wearing those caps. They started even guys shaving their legs and all. Nothing to create dragons in the water or running. That's laying aside the things that slow you down.
[15:08]
A
You should hear Oral Roberts preach on that. It'd take him two and A half hours. And they had to edit down his broadcast. And he'd start here like this, and then he'd get over here and there'd be some sweat here. And you get over here and his hair is down and he's over here. But, you know, sometimes it wasn't all that cool in those tents. And. But this man believed God. First thing he had to do is get over stuttering so bad he couldn't say his name. He stuttered so badly he had tuberculosis. He was dying. He had. He. He was right at the point of death. And he had coughed in his bedroom until they. They had to put plastic sheeting of some kind up on the wall. And then eventually had to redo the wall because he spit blood all over that. And so his brother came out there and got him and picked him up. This man, six, three, picked him up and carried him out to the car and took him to a tent meeting brother Muncie and took him up there and took the seat out of the car and had him out there listening to Brother Muncie. And he was the last one he prayed for. He said, bring that young man up here to me. Got him up on the platform and he laid hands on him. He said, take a deep breath. And Oral said. I took a deep breath. And he said, before it had been just like needles and pins. He said, I took a deep breath. And another stuttered again. Never.
[16:59]
B
Now think about Brother Muncie being obedient. Think about the people who sowed in Brother Muncie's ministry. Let me show you this. Let's go back to Hebrews 11 again, verse 39. And these all having obtained a good report through faith.
[17:17]
A
Yes.
[17:18]
B
Received not the promise. That's not us. We've received the promise.
[17:21]
A
Yes. Then he gets down here and said, consider him. He's the promise.
[17:25]
B
There's the promise, the fulfiller of the thing.
[17:28]
A
And then as you. As you study through the book of Hebrews, then all of this is reflecting Jesus did. But it goes back to the law. It goes back to the prophets. It goes back to the sacrifices. And.
[17:52]
B
So the book is called God, the covenant, the contradiction. Look at Hebrews, chapter 12, verse 2. Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross.
[18:05]
A
Satan.
[18:05]
B
Psalm 22. We talked about it this week. Despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of God, or the throne of God right now. For consider him that endured such contradiction.
[18:16]
A
There it is. That's where the Title of the book.
[18:21]
B
Comes from Sinners against himself. Lest you be wearied and faint. Look where it says in your minds. There are some people right now that you're. You're mentally wore out. And you're mentally wore out because you're worried about this and you're worried about that. And you haven't considered him, the promise who saved you, somebody. Now even you've just had horrible lightheadedness and headaches. And that's coming from the worry and the stress.
[18:51]
A
And you need to.
[18:52]
B
What we've talked about all week long, rolling this off onto him. Consider him who endured such. So that you don't have to walk that now that means we have to lay aside some weights. We've got to make some changes. We've got to go from divine.
[19:07]
A
I can just see this guy out there trying to run with a big heavy overcoat on.
[19:13]
B
That's it.
[19:16]
A
And all of a sudden that thing falls off. Well, let's go to Bob Deweese, who was my captain. He was captain of the airplane. And he. I learned so much because I stayed. When we were in hotels together, we stayed right close together because I was co pilot on that airplane. And he said, one day I want you to come in and pray with me. Well, I went in there. I'd never seen anybody pray like that. He just fell on his face and just went after it. And then he said, okay, that did that. I thought, boy, I'm going to pray like him. And people of faith. Well, he had a heart attack on a handball court. And he was telling. He and Charlotte were telling Gloria and I about this. He was telling about the whole thing. I knew that that had happened, but I anyway, and listen to what he said now. He said, Kenneth, he said, all of us just suddenly he said, I don't remember anything about that hard time. He didn't remember anything about it. He said, suddenly I was in the most beautiful place I'd ever seen in my life. And he said I was on a small road. And he said, kenneth, I had so much power in my legs, see, he wasn't aware. He didn't have a body. He was perfectly at home. But he wasn't aware of that. He said, I walked over there. He said there was a fence on each side of the road. He said, I walked over there and examined one of them. As close as I could tell it was hand carved mahogany. He said, it's the most beautiful thing you'd ever seen in your life. And he said, I looked up and he said, I Saw these lights in these lush green countryside. And he said, I'm home. He said, I started running. He said I had such power in my legs and. But he said I started bogging down and couldn't figure out why. And he said, all of a sudden, I was back there in the City of Faith and with the paddles on. And Charlotte said, kenneth. And of course, Gloria standing. He said, kenneth, do you think. He said, charlotte, thank you for saving my life? No, he said, charlotte, what did you do that for? He didn't want to come back. And he said, don't ever feel sorry for anyone. That goes. Then later, we were there at another thing. We walked out the yard there of his home and was stood out in front of a tree. He said, kenneth, I don't know how long I'm going to stay here. I said, why? He said, heaven's pulling on me. Pulling on me, man.
[22:36]
B
That's divine life, Brother Copeland.
[22:38]
A
It's pulling on me. And sure enough, he left. It's situations like that that I've been blessed with over the years. I don't need proof. This book is proof. Yes, sir. But things like that, people that I know that I've experienced these things with, and that the supernatural part of it. Man by the name of Israel Rodriguez, pastor of the church in Puerto Rico. Faith people. Oemi is his wife's name. Well, I'd flown my mother and dad up to the City of Faith where she could get an examination. And so my dad, they were getting. I said, I'm going to go downstairs to the E.R. i said, the doctor down there is a good friend of mine, and I just want to go see her. And anyway, I went down there. Well, the bell rang and this ambulance pulled up. And this man in there said, see there, Noemi? I told you he'd be the first one I see. When I got here, they told him. He said, I'm going to City of Faith. I want you to get a hold of Kenneth. And I want to talk to him about my healing. She said, israel, you. I don't know how to get ahold of him. And the doctor said, well, he's liable to die on the way in a few. Charter an airplane. He said, he'll be the first one I see. I was standing there. He said, see? I told. See, he said it by faith.
[24:33]
B
Yeah, that's right.
[24:35]
A
He said it by faith. And we're out of time. But I'll finish that story because it's part of what I'm talking to you about. But we'll be back in just a moment.
[24:52]
C
Discover how simple the answer to every question and every problem in life can be in the Covenant and the Contradiction, a new book by Kenneth Copeland and Greg Stephens. In this approachable book, dive deep into what a covenant is and what it's for. Discover what your covenant does for you and learn to overcome every contradiction and obstacle. With every covenant promise comes a contradiction. When you read in the Bible that by Jesus stripes you're healed and the diagnosis comes back incurable, or when you're facing a towering stack of unpaid bills, when you read that God promises you prosperity, common sense and human reasoning rise up to shout, there's no way that God's promises will happen in your life. Thank God. Covenant men and women throughout time have refused the contradiction and praised through in faith to the end result the blessing promised by God. And you can too see the Bible unfold more clearly than ever before in God. The Covenant and the Contradiction the Covenant and the Contradiction by Kenneth Copeland and Greg Stevens is available to you now at a special limited time price of $13.99. Order your copy today at kcm.org tvspecial or call 830. Downloadable options are also available, so share this valuable resource with your family and friends. This special offer is good for only 60 days outside the U.S. shipping charges may apply. Contact your regional office for more information. Find something Life Giving on kcm.org, your study center for victory. View the Believer's Voice of Victory broadcasts on demand and study along with the daily broadcast notes. Or download the audio podcasts to listen on the go. Watch prior KCM events for hours with truth going in your eyes and ears. Wherever you are, get real help for real life problems. Follow our guide to Believe, Speak, Pray, Learn and apply your way to results from your couch, desk or kitchen table. Stay focused on truth by reading the devotional From Faith to Faith every day. Read interactive bvov magazines and click to unlock more content in each issue. Get a faith boost from testimonies of real life success from people just like you. Find information on what partnership means and take advantage of the resources provided just for you. Read archives of Kenneth Copeland's partner letter and download free books from our Bonus Library. Over 50 titles available to read on your phone, computer or e reader. KCM.org meets you where you are.
[27:23]
A
Just as they turned the camera on, I heard there's someone your jaw has been out of place or TMJ or whatever it is. I just want you to know Jesus is healing that right now and Lord, I'm asking you to touch that. It may be more than one of you, but the one I'm talking about is a woman. But that's going out. Wherever it is, it's yours. It belongs to you. Healing is a property. Jesus bought and paid for it for you. And thank you for being with us today. And, hey, we'll be here tomorrow. Until then, remember this. God loves you, we love you. And Jesus is your healer and your Lord.
[28:02]
B
Yes, he is.
[28:03]
A
I got it in there. Whoo. Kenneth and Gloria Copeland want to thank.
[28:09]
B
You for joining us on the Believer's.
[28:11]
A
Voice of Victory broadcast.
[28:13]
B
To learn more about Kenneth Copeland Ministries.
[28:15]
A
And how we can help you grow in faith, check out our Web site.
[28:18]
B
For free content and resources available to you on kcm.org.