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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance.
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Companies to see if you could save some cash?
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Progressive makes it easy to see if.
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A
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Potential savings will vary.
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A
Not available in all states.
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Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits. They leave. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Foreign.
- [01:12]
A
Welcome back to Beth's Dead. This is episode 10, the final installment. Oh, wow. This is a little bit different than the others because many, many months have passed.
- [01:27]
C
Yes.
- [01:27]
A
Has a year passed?
- [01:29]
C
Has a year passed?
- [01:30]
B
I don't think quite that much, but.
- [01:32]
C
Yeah, it's been a while.
- [01:33]
A
It's been a while since we had our big call and we're back to sort of. We've been working on this project since then and putting it all together and now we're back to sort of talk about our thoughts on the whole thing.
- [01:48]
C
Yeah. And mine have gone through a journey over this year because like there was the right after and. And then we've all re. Listened to all nine episodes a couple of times. And I, every time I go on the ride, I have like, my feelings change through it because truly, I think we all left that call. Well, I left that call feeling like I think I said I wanted to give him a hug. I believed every word he said. I want what's best for him. And I think Monica, we even joked about, we wanted to be like, don't worry, you know, like all.
- [02:29]
A
Forget about it.
- [02:30]
C
Yeah, it's no big deal. But then you listen back to it and like, it was. It was a big deal.
- [02:37]
A
You know, it was a big deal.
- [02:39]
B
Yeah, I have the exact same thing. And then when I get to that thing, I can't help but to believe every single word he says. But then I'm also like, am I a fan? And like, one thing, I'm gonna ask you this. Actually at the end of that episode, the music that I made and put under it, I made right after we had talked to him. So I was in that feeling. Right. And every time I hear it, I'm like, oh, this. It almost feels like it's guiding too much.
- [03:07]
C
But then I'm, like, guiding how?
- [03:09]
B
The emotion, like, it's guiding the audience to feel, like, for the guy, too. Cause it feels sentimental and, like, not spooky for once, Sort of.
- [03:19]
A
Yeah.
- [03:20]
B
And I'm like, oh, is that the wrong thing? But I'm like, oh, that's kind of how I felt. It's this weird thing because then when I listen to earlier episodes, I'm like, that guy?
- [03:28]
C
Yeah.
- [03:28]
A
I think that's really interesting about the music, but it. That's just true to our journey with it. It was spooky and creepy, and we were weirded out. And by the end, there were. There were sweet feelings. I mean, obviously, I have a different perspective because I. I didn't go through it the way you guys did. But, yeah, when I was listening back, I was like, yeah, this is a wild story. He's really being so manipulative. But the same thing happened to me. When I got to the end and we were listening to him, I was like, God, it's hard to be a person. I believe him. And I still do. I still do.
- [04:10]
C
Me too. I do think both things are true. And I also want to say, through this whole thing, we're laughing a lot. That's kind of how we get through life. You know, at the time this happened, it was terrifying. You know, I. I sometimes am like, do we really express how scary that time was? And I think you heard bits of it as we were making it, and we were kind of like, are we putting this out there and making this guy want to come murder us? Or, you know, we had all these concerns putting it out. And I just want to say it's really interesting because I had a parasocial relationship with his dad. It actually took me, like, a while after recording that, I would still, like. It would pop in my mind, and I would think of, like, the villain I had created. And then I'd be like, wait, wait, it wasn't him. It was. It's almost like my brain couldn't. It took a while to catch up to the reality, to untangle it, even.
- [05:17]
B
Almost impossible to.
- [05:18]
C
And even to think about the dad now without having, like, negative feelings. Now I really do. And I feel guilty that I even attributed all of this to this, like, completely oblivious person who's just living their life. But I had to undo my own parasocial relationship with a person through all of this. And that person loomed large. It wasn't just those two weeks. And then the detective called and it was over. We have been so paranoid about posting stuff or, like, I don't know, leaving any sort of footprint. So this podcast, I have felt so much safer in life, even though I don't even think I realized what I was carrying.
- [06:09]
A
Yeah.
- [06:09]
C
Eight years in, I feel like this weight has been lifted. And we could never have guessed where the podcast went.
- [06:19]
A
That was such a fun. It was so fun. Fun to like, take it into a real sort of documentary style situation where we really just did not know where it was gonna go.
- [06:32]
C
Yeah. And I have to thank you, Monica, because, you know, we had talked about doing like one or two episodes about this back in the day and then turning it into what it is without you kind of feeling like a safe person who's helping guide this. I don't think there's a world where we would have ever reached out to him.
- [06:54]
B
No.
- [06:55]
C
Like, yeah. So this, like, sense of closure I have and also, like, it feels empowering to know the truth. And it's also such a good lesson about just not believing your instincts. Like, find out what the truth is. Because in this case, we were so wrong. The detective was wrong. Our private investigator was wrong. Like multiple.
- [07:18]
B
There were other people involved that were wrong.
- [07:20]
C
People smarter than us. Yeah. So I just feel like, even for the dad, even though I really hope he never knows about this, I feel like it's good for us to know the truth for him.
- [07:36]
B
You know, one of the scary things that I don't know if we touched on and we couldn't really. And now it being wrapped up some things, we kind of honored the anonymity of the dad. Right. Which I think is definitely the right thing to do. But in trying to, like, make contact, it seemed almost impossible to get to the dad.
- [07:59]
A
Right.
- [07:59]
B
Which that always really freaked me out. Like in this day and age, that seemed so wild to me and that.
- [08:05]
C
He was public facing.
- [08:07]
B
Yeah. He seemed like so almost Internet savvy or something that it was. It seemed impossible to get to him. And thank God we didn't.
- [08:17]
A
Well, and now we know that, like, maybe he's not Internet savvy.
- [08:22]
B
Yeah. Maybe it's the complete opposite.
- [08:24]
C
Yeah.
- [08:25]
A
We thought he was Internet savvy because of what he did.
- [08:27]
C
Yes, totally. We had written the story and it made it scarier. I mean, there were so many things like that about the dad. They got scarier when you attributed it to this thing he didn't actually do. I also want to say there are details about him we, you know, before we found out who it really was. That we have withheld. There's more to the emails, if you can believe it. There was more to, like, the threats, if you can believe it, that we weren't sharing out of kind of keeping everybody safe. Everybody safe. So.
- [09:02]
B
Yeah, I think. Yeah.
- [09:04]
C
But I also feel like this gave me so much closure. I think it gave you so much closure. And it also was, like, a really cool process for us. I have. I feel like, again, we can't get into too much detail, but there were multiple times in recording this podcast over two years where actions were going to be taken, certain people were going to be pulled in.
- [09:32]
A
Yep.
- [09:33]
C
That at the time, it was maybe frustrating that there was like a lag or waiting on people's schedules, but it was such a good lesson in trusting the creative process, because had those things happened, it would have been disastrous.
- [09:51]
B
I think we can say that, like, there was a plan to basically confront the dad. And since it was so hard to get to him. Monica, you were going to confront him face to face?
- [10:03]
A
Yeah, me and. And somebody else. I was. We were gonna go. We were just gonna go. It was someone who knows the dock space well. So we were sort of instructed. Like, that's kind of how you do it. You just, like, show up. Which I guess made sense since we couldn't really get in touch with them any other way. And then that didn't end up working out. So then we pivoted. Thank God.
- [10:27]
C
Thank God, thank God. But I. It was frustrating. Cause I was taking so long, and it's like, oh, I just want to get this out. And then that's happened multiple times. Like, this show had to take the time it took. Even thinking about him and, like, his sobriety.
- [10:44]
A
Exactly.
- [10:45]
C
I'm wondering if. I mean, just the timing aligned and he felt like he was in a place where he could speak with us and.
- [10:53]
A
And he wanted to. He felt like he was in a good place in recovery where he could give, like, a real amend and, you.
- [10:59]
B
Know, a little bit more about that. I think, Monica, like, that we didn't talk to him about this, but, like, this was probably something he truly did want to make amends for. Right. Because isn't that a big part of the process? Sort of. This could be a looming thing for him. That would be hard to shake.
- [11:15]
A
Yeah. In recovery, obviously, making amends is one of the scenes. Steps, but there is, like, sort of a caveat that sometimes you can't do it because it would cause more harm. So I'm sure he had to sort of file this into that category. But it did sound like, when we were able to talk to him, that he had been hoping he could have this moment.
- [11:40]
C
Yes, yes.
- [11:42]
A
This is sort of random, but not really. I don't know if everyone's. I mean, we all have here, but I don't know if our listeners have already watched Unknown Number or A Caller. I forget the exact title, but documentary on Netflix about a catfishing situation. Wild ending. But one of the main things I took from that was one of the characters in the. In that doc says, like, basically, like, catfishing is like, abuse catching up with technology. That's not exactly what he said, but he's talking about a Munchausen situation, but he's like, with technology, people's badness kind of evolved. Has evolved to use this tool for their mental illness. Like, you know, it's like it's another outlet for mental illness or anger or. I don't know. I just found that to be really interesting. And it applies here, I think, where, like, he was clearly struggling.
- [12:50]
C
Yes.
- [12:50]
A
And this podcast technology, this parasocial relationship and the comments section and all of these things allowed the mental illness to sort of, like, come out.
- [13:01]
C
Yeah, yeah. In a way, I was like, it's almost like that he wasn't even aware. Like, the technology kind of led him down a path before us humans can catch up to it. You know, I was so glad that it wasn't someone. And this was like, the version I had attributed to the dad who I became convinced in doing this podcast. Like, oh, this was calculated, going back through to the very beginning. Like, it was all planned. There was some end game. He was going to use Natasha and Anders to try to break up our marriage. Like, all of these steps and to kind of find out. It just happened. And I truly believe him. Like, as he said, didn't just seem like he could be friends with us. We reminded him of actual friends he had lost touch with, I think, in his addiction. And I also find it, like, kind of beautiful that we wanted to get all these answers. And he was like, I don't remember.
- [14:05]
A
I don't have any.
- [14:06]
B
And.
- [14:07]
C
And it. Ultimately, it's like, it doesn't.
- [14:10]
A
There's something actually matter. There's something freeing.
- [14:12]
C
It's so freeing.
- [14:13]
A
Yes.
- [14:13]
B
The other thing I want to point out, you bringing up unknown caller and number.
- [14:19]
A
I don't know what it is.
- [14:20]
B
And there's some other recent catfish documentaries. There's the one about the football player. Remember Manteu, I think. Is that how you pronounce it?
- [14:28]
C
Mantay Teo.
- [14:29]
B
Yeah, that One. And even the. Like, the Tegan and Sarah doc, if anyone's seen that, where they never necessarily find exactly who it is in that one, but the other ones they do. And in these ones, the perpetrator is interviewed and they don't have remorse. And what's interesting is I think we might be in an outlier situation actually, where this is not the normal way that this goes.
- [14:55]
C
Yeah.
- [14:55]
B
Like, he truly seems like he has remorse. And as I'm saying that, I'm like, I hope we're not gonna get, like, a knock on the door or something. Still a little bit of that. I like both of your faces. That makes me feel better, but do you know what I mean? But it does seem like a bit of an outlier. This was sort of a positive ending for us where most of these other stories, they're not really positive. It's kind of like, well, that sucks. Like, I don't know.
- [15:20]
A
But I do think it kind of speaks to the greater Internet culture also in general and comment culture where people do. They're just behind this sense of anonymity, and they're horrible. They're horrible to other people because it's so easy to forget that they're people. Like, to me, that's more of what happened to him. Like, he really wasn't. I mean, in some ways, he was very much thinking of you as people because you were acting as friends. But there's a separation that happens where you're also just like, yeah, not real. And in some ways, you belong to him. Like, I think we all. We can all do that in these parasocial relationships or these, like, relationships with podcasters and stuff. There can be a sense of entitlement.
- [16:08]
C
Yeah, I've.
- [16:09]
A
No, I've noticed it on my end, too. Like, if I'm listening to something and someone says something like that, I wouldn't like if they were my friends.
- [16:18]
B
Yeah.
- [16:18]
C
Yes.
- [16:19]
A
I'm kind of like, oh, why'd they do that? And it's like, I don't even know them.
- [16:24]
C
Yeah, yeah, I've had that as well. And the interesting thing is, like, it's also any which way the wind blows. Like, it could just be a day. I'm grumpy, and I happen to be hearing these people. Or like, Andy, you and I have been in an argument about something, and I'm hearing a podcaster, and I'm going, that person, I bet, you know, like, I'm projecting my own stuff onto them. Or if it's something I don't like about me or if it's something I don't like about someone in my life or attention I'm having in my life. It's so easy. And that's exactly what this guy was doing. He was kind of working through, as he said he was having suicidal ideation. He was working through stuff in these relationships with me from the safety of like not having to be vulnerable.
- [17:17]
A
Yes.
- [17:18]
C
And in a weird way, like, I think that there's something kind of beautiful about that. Like, and not, not with me, obviously.
- [17:28]
A
I know what you mean though.
- [17:30]
C
Like if there are spaces on the Internet, I mean, I don't know. I know Reddit is a cesspool and everyone likes to like, people are just. If you're on like the puppies Reddit, it's really nice. But if there were like a space like that for people to, I mean, I guess like Second Life or these games or something where people can kind of cosplay their feelings.
- [17:52]
B
Well, they're saying a lot of people are already starting to do that with some of the AI chatbots, which is weird because you're not even doing it with a person, but you are forming a relationship. But yeah, that gets into a whole other weird story.
- [18:03]
C
Well, that does, because those bots are trained to say what like the person wants to hear.
- [18:12]
B
Yeah.
- [18:13]
C
I mean it's like they're improvisers. They're. Yes. Anding stuff, which can be really dangerous when it's mental health stuff, as we've seen. So it's not as authentic as like a random podcaster who thinks that you're someone you're not.
- [18:31]
B
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- [19:01]
C
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- [20:41]
C
No, no, I'm just saying, like I. One question I we didn't ask him is like, did this help him or did it fuck him up more?
- [20:53]
B
It seemed like he was spiraling out so much. I think in some ways we were a part of his rock bottom sort of way. It sounded like the timing kind of all.
- [21:02]
A
Yes.
- [21:03]
B
Yeah.
- [21:03]
C
Not helpful.
- [21:04]
A
I have a question that I thought when I was listening back when he said he started like he sent in the letter. The Beth question. The Beth email. Yeah, the email to be put on air.
- [21:17]
C
Yeah.
- [21:19]
A
Like he said he had a friend who had experienced that and he was kind of like, I guess wondering what your advice would be on it.
- [21:27]
B
Yeah. And.
- [21:28]
A
And so instead of saying like, this happened to my friend, what do you think? He just became first person.
- [21:34]
B
Yeah.
- [21:35]
A
And I was like, huh, if we ended it there, is that wrong?
- [21:41]
B
How do you mean?
- [21:42]
A
The problem is he kept up the conversation. Right. And then created this whole thing and lured you in and whatever. But is it wrong on its own, right.
- [21:52]
C
To seek out. I mean, that's something I think. And you obviously did this and synced like got questions and it's. We talked about this then actually. Cause sync launched like during that time. During this time. And I was kind of nervous for you.
- [22:07]
A
Yeah.
- [22:07]
C
Naturally I'm very protective of you. And I feel like we ultimately thought, look, if it's helping someone else to maybe hear this, what's the harm?
- [22:20]
A
Right.
- [22:21]
C
As long as you're not then doing what I did. But he also. It's interesting because he had started it with Natasha and Anders.
- [22:31]
B
He was playing more. Yeah. More than one character. But what you say is almost like it's kind of the joke. Like, my friend was wondering if it's okay. Right?
- [22:39]
A
Yeah.
- [22:40]
B
And, like, is that okay to provide some cover for yourself?
- [22:44]
A
Exactly.
- [22:44]
B
And in this particular situation where you're reaching out to a public podcast, it's like, yeah, sure, maybe you don't want to identify yourself. Like, yeah, I can kind of understand that. But he abused the system.
- [22:55]
A
Of course. Of course, of course. No. Yeah. And then he got. Then it became everything we just heard. But it on its own, it's just interesting to think, like, oh, I might. I might have done that.
- [23:09]
C
Right.
- [23:10]
A
And then you can, like, sort of. I mean, I can't really see how you go that far down the line, but I don't know, it's just like, baby steps. It starts happening.
- [23:17]
B
Yes, I lied once. There was, like, right after I graduated college, I was out for, like, a couple more years, and I was trying to contact, like, big record producers and, like, could I find an internship and all this stuff. We're living in New York, and I reached out to maybe the manager of, like, one of my favorite favorite producers, and I said I was a college student working on a paper and could I interview him?
- [23:42]
A
Yeah.
- [23:42]
B
And then, like, six months later, I got a response that's like, yeah, sure. Here's his email. Send him questions. I'm like, oh, now I gotta send questions? And, like, do I pretend that I'm a college? And I did just send questions, and I was like, what a missed opportunity because I'd lied in the first place. Sort of like, I didn't. I didn't keep going.
- [24:00]
C
Well, also, I just don't know where that end game was. Yeah, you didn't have kind of a.
- [24:05]
B
Yeah, but it was like, I mean.
- [24:07]
A
I'm not contact, which I get.
- [24:10]
B
Like, this. Is this. Maybe I can make contact this way.
- [24:12]
C
Yes.
- [24:13]
B
Yeah.
- [24:13]
C
Yeah. Gosh, that was, like, such a different version of you.
- [24:17]
A
I mean, it's also. Look, it's also savvy and smart. Like, especially in these creative industries where it is impossible to make contact with people you do have. I mean, think about all the acting resumes. The special skills section is just all lies.
- [24:32]
C
Traveling unicycle.
- [24:34]
A
Yes.
- [24:35]
C
Fluent Italian, Andy. You know, it's interesting about that. I feel like we talked about it when you did that.
- [24:41]
B
Yeah.
- [24:42]
C
And I was like, it's truly harmless. Because the thing is, people are much more likely to respond to a college student, which you had been, hey, I went to college. Do you know what I mean? But being like, hey, I'm three years out of college. I'm working at a glass store.
- [25:00]
B
Yeah. I did end up actually working with him, though, which is kind of odd. Wow.
- [25:05]
C
Not through that, though.
- [25:06]
B
No, no.
- [25:06]
C
And he never found out and.
- [25:08]
A
No.
- [25:08]
B
Not comfortable to share that story with.
- [25:10]
A
Yeah. Interesting. But also, that's funny because it's like, well, yeah, he's probably gonna be more receptive to hearing from a college student in the same way that our guy is probably like, well, they're probably more likely to answer this if I'm a young woman.
- [25:24]
C
Yes. I mean, I know. Without a doubt. I never expected to get this kind of closure out of it. In fact, I was very nervous. We were opening a whole other can of worms. There were multiple times throughout this that we were like, do we pull the plug on this? This is our life. You know, we're very excited about it. And we felt really bad. Like we had already taken up so much of your time, which is valuable, but just straight up scared.
- [25:50]
A
Yes. You know, understandably. Me too. Me too. At some point I was like, oh, God.
- [25:55]
C
Like, well, you also, like, when we were talking about you going to find him, you know, like a cross country flight situation, that really freaked me out.
- [26:09]
A
Yeah.
- [26:09]
C
Because I was like this person when, you know, you don't know how volatile they are. And like, what? I don't know.
- [26:16]
A
All we know about this person is bad stuff.
- [26:18]
C
Yeah.
- [26:19]
A
So, like, it was. That was very. That was getting scary for me where I was like, God, are we really. I'm really gonna do this. I am not equipped to do this. I have no skills. But here we are.
- [26:31]
C
Yeah. I was like, damn, she's brave. I am.
- [26:34]
A
I am glad we didn't have to do that. Well, for a million reasons why. But. Yeah, but if I had knocked on the door and what happened with us happened, it would have probably still felt the same. I probably still would have felt like maybe even more so in some ways. Like, this is really a real person in front of me.
- [26:54]
C
Yeah.
- [26:55]
A
I mean, that's really why we really felt like we needed to see. See him. That was a big part of one of the, you know, final episodes where it was like, oh, maybe we can't see him. It was like, no, we. We have to.
- [27:06]
B
Yeah.
- [27:06]
C
Yes. And I. It's funny because the two days before Andy and you, we used to call you psychic Andy. You had this nagging feeling like, what if we got the wrong guy?
- [27:21]
B
Oh, I was just so worried about.
- [27:23]
C
You were joking about it being his wife and stuff and. Which would have been Crazy. But the two days leading up to that had just been. And obviously when it happened, it happened very fast. And we just made the call to do it. But we knew we were putting the emails out there and like, we really actually might make contact with this person. And I was just going through the list, some of which we couldn't share, of all of the reasons why it was this guy. And so the shock was so real for me. And then I also. Reflecting back when this happened, I knew that there was an adult son and just lightly looking into things. I. That would have made me so much more scared in a way if it were this adult son who didn't have something. You know, I was kind of comforted by. This person has a full life. They have a lot to lose. And it's just kind of. It was the idea of the like, incel in the basement who is obsessed. And that was a scarier proposition. And then it's funny that it was such a relief once we spoke to the person. And it's just another, like, you know, humans are complicated and you can't just make this like, broad stroke brush judgment of someone. And I was guilty of that with the dad and the son at different times. Like, it's such a good lesson for me. You know, we're all complicated people. Our behavior at different times, depending on what we're going through or is going to look very different. And you were very vocal about leading with compassion through this whole thing, which at times was super annoying.
- [29:16]
A
I know, I know.
- [29:18]
C
But I'm really glad for it. That's the truth. Like, you must approach things through a compassionate lens. I think so.
- [29:28]
A
The compassion obviously is helpful for the recipient, but it's. It's for you because it releases your anger and your fear. It's just like you seeing another person and understanding. Like understanding that life is complicated and people are complicated. And I. I think it. I think it is better for your own brain and not even for the other person, really.
- [29:56]
C
We've been dealing with a person who is going through a complicated time.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah.
- [30:03]
B
Yeah.
- [30:03]
C
With addiction. And it's very easy to get kind of blinded by their current behavior. I don't know. When you take a moment. And Andy and I are constantly doing this. Like, almost every time that we talk about this situation, we have to remind ourselves, like, we can see why they are here and our heart goes out to them. It's not easy. We know, like, they don't want to be in this situation. Yeah. And they can't control it. And it makes it Easier personal.
- [30:42]
A
That's the other thing that is so hard with addiction because the wreckage that it causes feels extremely personal and often is directed in a very personal way. And so to have some awareness that, like, it's really not about me at all does, by the way, for anyone, like, it doesn't mean you have to stick around for it. And in fact, you shouldn't.
- [31:07]
B
Right.
- [31:08]
A
But it will just bring you peace.
- [31:11]
B
Yes, yes, I totally agree.
- [31:13]
C
You know, the. It's not about you. That's one of the, like, four agreements, you know. Oh, and I don't really know the other ones. I'm not like a huge. I think it's helpful, you know, it's something. It's a self help thing everyone can dip their toe into once in a while. But the it's not about you is so helpful in life. And honestly, this situation, it wasn't about me. Like, he maybe was. It's like, I don't even know if he was obsessed with me, you know?
- [31:46]
B
Was he? I do think he was. One thing. I don't think I told you guys. That just popped in my head once we found out it was him. You know, we did have the honeymoon phase of like, oh, such closure and everything. I spent an afternoon, one day, I don't know if it was a week, two weeks later, digging on the Internet looking for a court documentation about, like, why was he arrested and what were his charges?
- [32:10]
C
Oh, wow.
- [32:10]
B
I paid money to request documents of, like, some government site. Like, I really went into it and I'm using variations of his name and everything. Like, I was like, I do need to know. Like, but is this guy a bad guy? But I never found anything compelling. But I did have that instinct still. Like, I still couldn't shake it completely.
- [32:30]
A
But can you now?
- [32:31]
B
No, not completely, but I'm 90% there.
- [32:34]
A
Okay.
- [32:34]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And I do really wish the best for him. And that's another thing I kind of wanted to speak to. We promised him that we would alter his voice. And it is still very compelling. But I don't know if it's as compelling if you can hear the human version in it, which, yeah, it's undeniable. That's all I want to say. Like, and I think to all three of us, it was undeniable when we heard him speak.
- [33:03]
A
Yeah. It was so tricky, I think, for us, Andy, me and you, when we first got on. And it was immediately this human. And he was, like, nice to us. And we, you know, and we were trying very hard on purpose to keep it Kind of, like, tight and asking the questions. And when I listened back, I was like, oh, my God, we're so cold. Like, I felt like we were being so cold towards him. Which is. Which is fine.
- [33:32]
C
I felt like you guys had to kind of be that way because we also didn't know where it was gonna go. You guys had me, the kind of main victim.
- [33:43]
A
Yeah.
- [33:43]
C
As a fly on the wall watching. And so I think you didn't want to do what your instinct was and be like, oh, my God, like, it's all fine. You know, whatever.
- [33:54]
A
Like, we're sorry.
- [33:56]
C
Honestly, we're sorry on behalf of me. I think that was like. I think that you really had no choice. Also, we were worked up ahead of time because we were like, this guy is Internet savvy.
- [34:11]
B
Oh, yeah. We assumed. He said he can't.
- [34:13]
C
I've never used.
- [34:14]
A
Yeah, we're, like, out of it.
- [34:17]
B
Yeah.
- [34:18]
C
Yeah.
- [34:18]
A
But really, he was just in his car.
- [34:20]
C
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [34:20]
A
He was in his car. When he did this, even when he.
- [34:22]
B
Like, turned on the camera, I believe it was facing the other way. And I was like, of course it's facing the other way. Like, you're gonna pretend you can't figure out how to turn it around. Like, we were just, like, calling on everything.
- [34:33]
C
There was also a world where the camera was gonna turn around and it was like, his dick.
- [34:41]
B
No. Okay. Okay.
- [34:43]
A
I did not.
- [34:44]
B
Geez. That's like. I actually think you're being serious right now, which is what's, like, blowing my.
- [34:54]
C
I mean, after all of this, like, what if that was. You know, it wasn't so.
- [35:01]
A
But there's like, oh, my God, that's possible.
- [35:03]
B
And do you have that thought? Are you having that thought now, or had you had that thought back then?
- [35:07]
C
Honestly, I had had that thought back then.
- [35:09]
A
Oh, my God, I have. I had never.
- [35:13]
B
Last of my worries was a dick dick shot.
- [35:17]
C
I'm sorry to see. I feel bad that even. I hope he doesn't hear any of this, but I'm like, I think, well.
- [35:23]
A
He didn't do that.
- [35:24]
C
He didn't.
- [35:25]
A
So it's not his. It's not his crazy brain.
- [35:29]
C
I'm Monica goes, I. I have to be honest. We were expecting to see your dad's dick.
- [35:41]
A
Okay.
- [35:42]
B
In some ways, you took it, like, way further than he ever did. And there's, like, mountains of emails.
- [35:47]
C
He said, well, but you don't know. Well, you just don't.
- [35:51]
A
You're right. You're right.
- [35:52]
B
Of course you don't know. Yeah.
- [35:53]
A
You don't know.
- [35:53]
B
That's a good point, I guess.
- [35:54]
A
But also that it was so cinematic. Like, obviously this is not on video and that definitely would never ever be shown us seeing him and stuff. But it was so, so movies to be like waiting for the phone to him to pick up and then he does and then it's facing the other.
- [36:14]
B
Way in a truck or car or something. Like.
- [36:17]
A
Yeah. Yes. Like, the anticipation was so intense.
- [36:22]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Like you can't script it. You can't.
- [36:26]
A
I know it wasn't him. And then he was really lovely. And I do really hope, I hope he's doing well. I, I, I, I sent one more email to him after.
- [36:36]
B
Okay.
- [36:38]
A
That was just like very short, but just I really appreciate you talking to us and I really hope you got some closure from it too. And I hope you are doing well and continue to do.
- [36:51]
B
Did he respond?
- [36:51]
C
We think so. We sent the same.
- [36:54]
A
Maybe we all sent it.
- [36:55]
C
We all sent it. Maybe. Or we separately sent kind of same emails. Because right after I was like, Elizabeth's.
- [37:03]
B
Been having like an emotional affair with him ever since.
- [37:06]
A
Oh my God, more emails. What if there was another entire cycle of emails back and forth?
- [37:13]
B
Well, I've been in contact too. Yeah.
- [37:15]
C
Listen, I do feel like season two, I feel like this is so insane because this is how I felt about Beth. But I'm like, I would like to know how he's doing in five years. I do feel this, like, I was very nervous after that because, you know, when asked about his sobriety, he was very honest and said, it's been hard. But he's three years in and it sounds like he's like getting his feet on the ground and that's a very tender time.
- [37:51]
A
Yes.
- [37:52]
C
And I was, my hope is that us reaching out and talking to him in our follow up email would make him go, okay, I have closure. That's behind me. I can now focus on my life and not have those thoughts swirling. But I was also very worried that this was like gonna kick up if he were in some sort of like self esteem spiral or.
- [38:16]
A
I know, I worried about this as well.
- [38:18]
C
I'd hate for this to have sent him like backwards.
- [38:23]
A
Yes. I hope he is doing good out there because we are. Have you guys ever listened to, I think it was called the Mystery Show. It was a podcast a long, long time ago. And it was just a few, it was like short, a few, some episodes. And it was this girl hosting it who basically people would write in like little, they're like little mysteries. Like this person, you know, found someone's coin and it was engraved.
- [38:57]
C
Oh, I do remember that. Yeah.
- [38:58]
A
It was such a beautiful podcast. It was so cool.
- [39:01]
C
Oh, that's cool.
- [39:02]
A
And in some ways, this whole journey sort of reminded me of that. It was like. Yeah, there's this just like little. Everyone has these little life mysteries, like, who was that? What happened with that person? What is this? And we got to, like, figure it out.
- [39:16]
C
Yeah. It's so satisfying.
- [39:18]
A
It is. Yeah.
- [39:19]
C
Yeah. That's the thing is there's the satisfaction and then there's this kind of beautiful feeling of like, I have that, like, heart swell feeling of humanity and, you know, like, life is beautiful type feeling, which I was not expecting to be.
- [39:37]
B
Part of this and we might not have had. I mean, honestly, chances are that's not where this was going to end. Honestly.
- [39:44]
C
Yes.
- [39:45]
B
Even had we confronted whoever it turned out to be, whether it was the dad who we thought it was or this guy, there are so many other ways this could have ended that. Yeah.
- [39:56]
A
That's why it is hopeful, because it was. It was a happy ending. It was a really, like a nice human person on the other end treating us like humans and us doing the same at time, same.
- [40:10]
B
The.
- [40:11]
A
After all of this two way parasocial stuff going on, it ended up being all these humans in a room, so to speak. And it is hopeful. It is hopeful that especially just like with the world, that maybe if you can just get people in a room.
- [40:26]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:28]
A
It can. It can be. Okay.
- [40:30]
C
That's right. And also a good reminder, just speaking of the world, like, we are all a product of our circumstances. We are all where we are, you know, because of the specificity of our own lives and bringing compassion into that and remembering that is so important.
- [40:51]
A
Yeah. I hope everyone enjoyed it and got something from it. And hopefully maybe we'll see you again soon for some mystery number two. Who knows?
- [41:02]
C
Ooh, thank you, Monica.
- [41:05]
A
Yeah.
- [41:05]
B
Thank you both for taking us on this.
- [41:07]
C
This was.
- [41:08]
A
It was such a dream come true. Parasocially for me to work with you two again. That wild interweaving of that is another bizarre layer to all of this.
- [41:20]
C
Yes.
- [41:20]
B
I'm just getting a feeling you're gonna walk out here and text him like, we made it. They didn't figure it out.
- [41:26]
C
Yeah.
- [41:27]
B
He's some guy that you hired. Yeah, it was you the whole time. He's just some guy you hired.
- [41:32]
A
Oh, my God. That just got me so scared. Yeah, no, it. This was a very special project for me, so I'm. I'm grateful to both of you.
- [41:42]
B
Amazing.
- [41:44]
A
All right. Bye. Bye.
- [42:01]
B
Beth's Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman. And nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lame and Monica Padman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music and sound by andy Rosenberg.
- [42:35]
A
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