EP2 - You May Recognize My Vagina

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: BETH'S DEAD
Episode: EP2 - You May Recognize My Vagina
Hosts: Monica Padman, Elizabeth Laime, Andy Rosen
Date: October 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Monica, Elizabeth, and Andy continue their deep dive into the origin story of "Beth," a listener whose vulnerable email and subsequent interactions set off a chain of events that would ultimately shape the hosts' perspective and, as they hint, veer toward darker territory (the eponymous "Beth’s Dead" mystery). The team revisits old emails, comments, and audio, confronting how their style of advice and the culture of parasocial podcasting impacted Beth—and, in turn, themselves.

The main focus in this installment is unpacking Beth’s initial plea for advice, the hosts’ public and private responses, and the ensuing fallout both within Beth’s life and the show's listener community. Themes of shame, online harassment, vulnerability, and the ethical complexity of discussing listener trauma on-air take center stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reading Beth’s Initial Email [00:59–04:29]

• Monica reads Beth’s original email: a candid account of her experience with small-time and then adult modeling, the unexpected viral exposure of her nude photos, and the shame, judgment, and paranoia it caused.
• Beth seeks advice about disclosing her past to her fiancé’s large, complex family, fearing a future scandal.
• Beth’s tone is self-aware, equal parts regret and dry wit:

  "I know that's unrealistic. People check this kind of stuff out and they're going to see me eventually. I don't want to tip people off about this. Like, okay, kids, you know your new aunt Beth, you can see hundreds of pictures of her getting undressed, so don't go looking for those." [03:44, Beth/Email]

2. Reflections on Tone and Early Responses [04:34–08:40]

• Initial reaction from Elizabeth and Andy: the subject line (“You may recognize my vagina”) felt on-brand and playful, not a crisis.
  • Andy:

    “There was a lot of playfulness, lightheartedness...I do think that there might have been something delightful about that subject line to us that, oh, they'll think this is funny. I'm guessing there was an air of that to the subject line.” [04:53, Andy Rosen]

• Elizabeth admits to being excited to tackle the question on the show, noting that, at the time, consent was assumed if someone wrote in.
  • Elizabeth:

    “Now I would assume it’s consent if they’re writing in the question...But that was also my way of informing you we will be reading this and talking about it.” [05:47, Elizabeth Laime]

• Beth quickly follows up, clarifying she never aspired to be a model, only did it for money, and is ruminating late at night—an insight into her anxiety.

3. Cultural Shifts and Podcast Ethics [08:40–09:57]

• Both hosts and Monica reflect on how much culture and their own sensibilities have changed in seven years. Old episodes are paywalled “not that anything was crazy, but...”.
• Andy worries their then-naive response was “super reckless and playful.”

4. Replaying Their On-Air Advice [09:27–16:32]

• Clip from the original advice segment:
  • Both Elizabeth and Andy share similar personal experiences with nude photos:

    “I actually did a nude photo shoot...and I thought, like, maybe this will help me feel empowered...” [09:36, Elizabeth Laime]
    “I did a naked photo shoot as well...for an ad campaign that never came to light.” [10:11, Andy Rosen]

  • Emphasis on destigmatization; both advise against proactively telling the fiancé’s family, but suggest owning it if/when it arises.
  • Elizabeth urges Beth to seek therapy and unburden herself from shame:

    “It doesn’t define who you are. I think that this right earner’s shame is coming through loud and clear...I don’t think she needs to have shame about it.” [11:07, Elizabeth Laime]

  • Andy:

    “No, do not tell the family. There’s absolutely no reason to be proactive in this situation.” [11:33, Andy Rosen]

• Discussion about if/how to bring up the topic with the family and worries about “diffusing the bomb.”

5. When Advice Becomes Real: Beth’s Update [14:04–16:32]

• Beth shares with the hosts that her fiancé’s brother tipped him off about “new pictures,” and the family seems, at best, awkwardly “cool.”
• Beth’s anxiety about long-term repercussions is palpable:

  “When I think about having kids...I almost get sick thinking about how this will affect them.” [14:38, Beth (Email)]

• Hosts discuss the idea that what might be a positive teaching opportunity for future children is, in the moment, a source of acute pain for Beth.

6. Reckoning with the Impact [16:41–18:13]

• The group reacts uncomfortably (in the present) to their past “on-air” handling. Elizabeth:

  “I’m honestly so uncomfortable right now knowing that we even addressed it on air after hearing this.” [17:37, Elizabeth Laime]

• Monica connects this to the “weird thrill” in podcasting—both being “let in on a secret” and producing “good content” from people’s trauma:

  “There’s a little bit of trading in trauma currency...It gets a little sparkle in the eye.” [18:59, Monica Padman]

7. Navigating Parasocial Relationships [19:09–20:55]

• Elizabeth discusses feeling “like the big sister” for listeners, and Andy admits the heavy lifting was mostly Elizabeth’s.
• Monica notes the shifting boundaries: sometimes the host–listener relationship inverts, and the host becomes deeply invested or over-involved.

8. Comment Section Fallout [21:46–26:41]

• Beth tries to engage supportively in the show's online community, but encounters "Frank," a commenter who slut-shames her.
  • Frank:

    “I hate to say it, but I think you should feel a little bad about it...you contributed to the idea that women are just sex objects for men to enjoy.” [23:21, Frank (Commenter)]

• Elizabeth posts a powerful defense:

  “Oy vey. Frank, this is incredibly harsh. And for what purpose exactly?...Even if she did, she owes nothing to the concerns of how this or her in-laws or family feel...Women’s relationships with their bodies and sexuality is complicated to a degree that men do not understand.” [23:30–24:49, Elizabeth Laime]

• Monica and Andy are impressed by Elizabeth’s vigorous response, and Elizabeth shares how she was moved to intervene in this case, recognizing the cultural gap between their own LA bubble and Beth’s more conservative environment.

9. Beth’s Voice Grows [26:41–29:15]

• Beth herself comments, revealing her evolving shame and struggles after repeated social repercussions—not just the initial act, but the compounding unkindness.
  • “After years of some pretty harsh treatment from a small minority of people, yeah, I definitely feel a lot of shame about this. I know I shouldn’t, but how I know I should feel and how I actually do feel have become very different.” [28:26, Beth (Comment)]
• Natasha, another listener, expresses support and asks how Beth is, highlighting the mini-community forming around Beth's story and reinforcing how public this has become.

10. Crisis Point: Everything Unravels [29:45–34:02]

• Beth emails to say she told many people about her past and it “went so much worse than I ever imagined. It was the worst night of my life. I’ve never felt so worthless.” [29:45, Beth (Email)]
• Elizabeth immediately responds with empathy and urging therapy, then follows up for more updates. She admits now:

  “This was the first red flag for me…her saying ‘I feel worthless’...I was realizing I'm maybe in over my head at this point.” [31:27, Elizabeth Laime]

• Beth’s fiancé, after defending her, is pressured by family and puts their engagement “on hold.” Beth reports she’s seeing a therapist but essentially acknowledges her relationship is collapsing.
• Elizabeth, in retrospect, realizes her advice became “too deep” and that their roles had blurred in disruptive ways.

11. The Cliffhanger [34:38]

• Beth’s final message in the episode:

  “I was hoping you could do me a crazy favor. Could you just take a look at one of my galleries? I’m begging.” [34:38, Beth (Email)]
  This line lands heavy, foreshadowing ominous developments and inviting listeners to “binge” the rest of the series.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• "You may recognize my vagina..." — Beth’s email subject line; the episode’s catalyst
• Monica on podcasting with listener trauma:

  "There’s a little bit of trading in trauma currency...It gets a little sparkle in the eye." [18:59, Monica Padman]

• Elizabeth’s response to Frank:

  "Women's relationships with their bodies and sexuality is complicated to a degree that men do not understand...I really, really hate this comment. It feels so abusive and counterproductive..." [24:15–24:49, Elizabeth Laime]

• Beth’s low:

  "Tonight I told a lot of people about my nude photos. It went so much worse than I ever imagined. It was the worst night of my life. I’ve never felt so worthless." [29:45, Beth (Email)]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Beth’s initial email: [00:59–04:29]
• First host reactions: [04:34–08:40]
• Reflections on podcast culture then vs. now: [08:40–09:57]
• Original on-air advice segment: [09:27–16:32]
• Beth’s update and hosts’ further reflection: [14:04–16:32]
• Reckoning with podcast ethics: [16:41–18:13]
• Deepening parasocial dynamics: [19:09–20:55]
• Comment section fallout and Elizabeth’s defense: [21:46–26:41]
• Beth’s direct responses in comments: [26:41–29:15]
• Beth’s relationship unravels: [29:45–34:02]
• Cliffhanger—Beth’s final plea: [34:38]

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, self-scrutinizing, and occasionally humorous, in keeping with the hosts’ chemistry, but grows increasingly somber as the real-life consequences of Beth’s exposure and the podcast’s involvement become apparent. The team’s willingness to “pull the curtain back” and critique their younger selves and the culture of podcast advice-giving provides a mature and thought-provoking layer. The comment section drama and the eventual implosion of Beth’s life anchor the episode in the real emotional risks that come with sharing—and dissecting—personal trauma in public.

Listeners are left with empathy for Beth, a sense of the weight and unpredictability of public vulnerability, and a preview of unraveling mysteries promised in future episodes.

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For Further Listening

To follow the darkening story of Beth and the ethical quandaries it exposes, binge the full series at patreon.com/BethsDead.

Transcript

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[Monica Padman]

Welcome to Beth's Dead Episode 2 I'm Monica Padman and I'm here with Elizabeth Lame and Andy Rosen.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Hello.

[Monica Padman]

So last week we left off hearing about this email that changed everything for you two. And the subject line was, you may recognize my vagina now. Elizabeth, you've just handed me the email. Yes, and I'm gonna read it. Hey guys, I've been listening to your podcast for a while, but I've been really reluctant to write about this marriage question. If you end up thinking it's not something you want to deal with, I get it. It's just something I'm not very comfortable talking about with people closer to me, and I could use an outsider's persp. My basic question is how much do you have to tell your new family because I'm engaged about your embarrassing past? I feel like the details are important here. This starts a few years ago, just after I turned 20. I had done a ton of small time modeling work over the years while I tried to get my real career going, but the work wasn't reliable and didn't pay all that well. I suddenly found myself desperately in need of more money than I could make. When a contact from modeling offered me what seemed like a lot of money to do some adult modeling, I very reluctantly did. These pictures are no worse than what you'd find in a Playboy. I never performed sex acts or even worked with a male photographer, but I did take a ton of pictures to fulfill my contract and they all revolve around me getting naked. I don't have any illusion about what this was. I wasn't making art. It was stuff for people to get off to. So I actually understand if people think that this is akin to prostitution. I expected that I never have to interact with the few people who would see those pictures. The problem was, I guess people liked my look because my pictures got spread all over the net without me seeing another dime. Of course. Seriously, if you frequent just about any site that features links to naked people who aren't having sex, I guarantee you'll have come across one of my galleries. The feminist in me says women should be able to do this without being demonized. But my actual experiences make me really regret all this. So many people have seen this crap. Like, at my last job, a bunch of my co workers and my boss admitted to seeing me naked. This has led to more sexual harassment, judgment, and creepiness than you'd believe. I don't expect people to condone what I did. I wasn't excited about it in the first place, but very few people seemed to realize that I was doing it because I needed money and not because I'm a giant slut. For what it's worth, I'm actually very sexually conservative. As I mentioned, I'm now engaged. My fiance is actually more okay with all of this than I am. And the few people who are really close to us know about it. But my fiance comes from a huge family with step siblings and a bunch of nieces and nephews, some of whom are hitting puberty. We can't seem to agree on what we should tell people. I'm not eager to say anything. Ideally, nobody would see this stuff and I can move on with my life. But I know that's unrealistic. People check this kind of stuff out and they're going to see me eventually. I don't want to tip people off about this. Like, okay, kids, you know your new aunt Beth, you can see hundreds of pictures of her getting undressed, so don't go looking for those. But if people are going to know about this, and some will, I'd rather be able to try to explain myself than have it be some open secret that everyone's too embarrassed to admit or have it cause some kind of scandal down the road. My fiance supports me. However I choose to deal with this. I just don't know who in his family I should tell or what I should say. I don't know why you'd want to help me. I get that very few people seem to feel any sympathy, but like I said, I could really use another perspective on this. And I'm really uncomfortable telling more people that actually know me. Any thoughts? You guys are the best. Xo.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. So that was our first interaction interaction with Beth.

[Monica Padman]

When these emails would come in and like when you read, you may recognize my vagina at the time, did you read that and think, oh my God, this is so exciting? Or were you hesitant as us as.

[Andy Rosen]

A show, There was a lot of playfulness, lightheartedness. There was a lot of sex talk that I do think that there might have been something delightful about that subject line to us that, oh, they'll think this is funny. I'm guessing there was an air of that to the subject line. Right. Like it was in our brand of humor.

[Monica Padman]

Totally.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And I think that's important because also as we're talking about this Beth, her interactions with us at no point in time. Well, no, that might not be true, but at this point in time, it did not seem like a crisis situation.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

She presented it almost like tongue in cheek.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Elizabeth Lame]

So it felt. Yeah, it felt kind of light hearted and on brand. So I probably was excited about this.

[Monica Padman]

So before you would read it on the podcast and have this open discussion, you would respond.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. And usually it's like, great question. We'll definitely answer it. And that was also part of me. I think now I would assume it's consent, if they're writing in the question, to have us respond to. But that was also my way of informing you we will be reading this and talking about it. So should I read my email response to.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, totally.

[Monica Padman]

And you haven't. Just for the audience. You have not revisited this response since.

[Elizabeth Lame]

No, I haven't. Okay. Oh, wow. I totally feel sympathy. Honestly, if any of the poor decisions I made in my youth had been for public consumption, I'd be beyond upset. We will absolutely discuss on a future totally married. Thank you for sending in. Which is.

[Monica Padman]

That's very kind.

[Andy Rosen]

I like that.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that was kind. Okay. So then Beth responds. Oh, you're so sweet to say that. I think I get why people don't feel much sympathy. It's not like most women have to choose whether or not to do this. So what other mistakes they may have made, they're sure that they wouldn't make this one.

[Andy Rosen]

Huh.

[Monica Padman]

It almost feels like text.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, it's familiar.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Andy Rosen]

Especially back then.

[Monica Padman]

I know. Yeah, immediately. I mean, this is the third interaction. Okay. Then she sends another email. The next day at 2:47am she says, Oof. I just reread part of my original email because I'm so nervous about my wording. I wasn't clear on this, but when I said I had done small time modeling while trying to get my real career going, I wasn't talking about a modeling career. I never wanted that. Just something I fell into and now will never do again. Exo, Beth.

[Andy Rosen]

Okay, wait, so what's the clarity there?

[Elizabeth Lame]

She wants me to know that her ambitions were never to be a model. It was just like to make money.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so she was obviously ruminating. Yeah, because that's the middle of the night and she is going back and looking at old emails and it's obviously on, like, top of mind for her.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yes.

[Andy Rosen]

Is that a detail that you as women is relevant? Because to me, I'm like, that changes nothing.

[Elizabeth Lame]

To me, it feels honestly like when. I mean, I've done this before and I've had people do it to me, but you go to a party and you have a great time, and then at 2am you wake up and you go, when I complimented her glasses, did it come across like I really didn't like them? And then I write a text that's like, hey, your glasses. When I said they reminded me of my grandmother's, that actually was sincerely a compliment.

[Monica Padman]

My grandma had the best style of anyone I've ever known. It does feel like that to me. This doesn't change anything, but it. It just is an insight to her headspace.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

The one part of this story that I cannot reiterate enough, that this was seven plus years ago.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And we had been podcasting for a while and we're very naive to, I don't know, interactions and stuff like that. So we're kind of very anxious to hear what our actual response on the.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Podcast was about this.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Because a lot has changed since then.

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Andy Rosen]

For us and the culture, you mean?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yes, like, in our views on things. And, I mean, there's a reason most of our back episodes are on Patreon behind a paywall. We don't want it just, you know, out there. Not that anything was crazy, but I'm.

[Andy Rosen]

Worried that we're going to be, like, super reckless and playful in our response. Do you know what I mean?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Back then, I mean, hindsight, we had no idea what was coming down the pipeline.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah. Here's that clip. It's from the end of her question. This is going into our response.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

She says, I don't know why you'd want to help me. I get that very few people seem to feel any sympathy, but I could really use another perspective. I do feel sympathy.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah. What are you talking about?

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Yeah, listen, first of all, I mean, I actually did a nude photo shoot. That is not. No one can ever see this because this very reputable photographer here in LA when I was like 21 years old, was doing something on empowering what all women's bodies look like. And I was like, sign me up, because I have dealt with body image issues. And I thought, like, if this maybe will help me feel empowered in some ways. And also just I like the idea of there being images of real women's bodies out there.

[Andy Rosen]

Okay.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

So I did it. And the project never Came to light, which I am now grateful for.

[Andy Rosen]

I did a naked photo shoot as well.

[Elizabeth Lame]

You did?

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

That's right. I've seen those pictures for an ad.

[Andy Rosen]

Campaign that never came to light.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

So we're both lucky in that this writer inner had no idea it was gonna become what it was.

[Andy Rosen]

Right.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

And I mean, there's no shame in it to me at all.

[Elizabeth Lame]

No, not at all.

[Andy Rosen]

It got away from you, though. It went viral.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

So my whole point was Andy and I both could have been in similar situations.

[Andy Rosen]

I have my photos.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

I know.

[Andy Rosen]

Should I put those up in the comment section?

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Anyway, so point being, one thing I want to say, and there is a follow up to this, and I know the question is just basically, should we tell people in my future family and how if so. But I just want to say it sounds like this writer in her is carrying a lot of shame for this that I just don't think she. I'm wondering if she could go to a therapist and find a way to unburden herself and just look at it for what it is, which was you made a choice that you regret, but, like, it doesn't define who you are. I think that this right earner's shame is coming through loud and clear on this question. And personally, I don't think she needs to have shame about it. How do you feel?

[Andy Rosen]

Here's my advice.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Okay.

[Andy Rosen]

No, do not tell the family. There's absolutely no reason to be proactive in this situation. If at some point in time it comes up, you can totally address it then, and I would own it then.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

This is the sort of thing I would feel just like her because I might think that, like, everyone in your family would know about it and be talking about it behind my and your back and even wondering if you knew about it and judging me for it. No one's necessarily going to say something to her about it.

[Andy Rosen]

And then she's like, paranoid, right?

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

So it might make her feel better. My advice would be that if there's ever an opportunity to bring it up in a casual way, like, if you're talking about maybe have your husband bring up like, odd jobs that people worked and you could bring up be like, oh, my God. Well, when I was in my 20s, I did the craziest thing. I was. I really needed money. It was a lot of money. But I did not anticipate it was gonna follow me around for the rest of my life. Lesson learned.

[Andy Rosen]

That is just the one thing that I have a hard time with being proactive about. It is like, it does Open up the can of worms. Right, But I get your point though. I mean, yeah, like, do you def. Do you defuse the bomb, so to speak.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Right.

[Andy Rosen]

Well, maybe she's diffusing her paranoia bomb. But she might be lighting a different bomb though.

[Monica Padman]

You guys, I'm so. I'm sorry. Before we move on, we have to address that. Both of you have done nude modeling.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Guilty.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Guilty. Wait, have you not now.

[Monica Padman]

I'm feeling like maybe there's something wrong with me. No one asked me to nude model.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Everyone has done nude modeling. No, that was insane.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

I hadn't even.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I'd forgotten about that. Not Andy's, but yes. Wow, Andy. How did you feel about that?

[Andy Rosen]

I was like, oh, we weren't reckless or anything. I felt fine. I felt fine with it. I was worried that we would have said way dumber stuff. Did you feel okay?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah, I. I did. I. Yes. I was pretty pleased with how we responded. I was very happy that I suggested she go to a therapist.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

But that's not actually the end of our answer, so let's play the rest.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Okay. Here's a very interesting update though.

[Andy Rosen]

Okay.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Basically, my fiance got a call this morning from his brother letting him know that there were new pictures of me on the Internet. Even though it was an awkward conversation, my future brother in law seemed cool about it. But I guess my point is it really seems like it's impossible to keep this away from my loved ones. And the treatment I've gotten in the past has made me so paranoid about how people will react. When I think about having kids down the road, I almost get sick thinking about how this will affect them. And it would be so much easier if taking those pics was something I really believed in that I'd be willing to defend on principle because women should be able to do this kind of thing without being treated like whores. But it was never something I wanted to do at all.

[Andy Rosen]

Oh, okay. That does make it interesting.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Here are my thoughts. Number one, I think it's good that the brother in law knows and called the brother so he can kind of act as a diffuser for the rest of the family.

[Andy Rosen]

Oh, yeah, that's nice.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

If it comes up. So I hope that the writer in her can let go of her paranoia. If anyone treats her differently because of this, that's on them.

[Andy Rosen]

That's on them.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

You don't need to worry about what it means for you. You know, who you are and in terms of your kids growing up. I think if it does come up, I mean, part of Me hopes that by then, yeah, I don't know, there'll.

[Andy Rosen]

Be so many more images on the Internet and it won't be a thing by then.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Hopefully not. But if it does come up, I would just take it as a learning teaching opportunity with your kids to say, you know, I did something I regretted because. And I think we all have. We're gonna have to teach our kids so much about, like, not sending naked selfies. It actually will be a great learning opportunity and they can learn from what you went through and however it affects them. So it might be in a. I mean, not a way you would want, but it might be a positive thing for your kids. So I would just try to find peace for yourself. Let it play out. If anyone ever brings it up to you or treats you differently because of it, you can explain to them what you explain to us. And if they still judge you for it, then I think that that's gonna be very eye opening for that person, that you don't really need to respect their opinion anyway.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, I think that's. I like it. You got nothing to be ashamed of. You need to do a little healing on this on your own. Just own it.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, I think that's okay. So that was your response to her follow up. Now what are your thoughts having heard all that?

[Andy Rosen]

You know what? One thing was striking to me as I went on the roller coaster hearing that of like, the amount of paranoia of these photos. And I think as an outsider, you're like, I mean, don't worry about it. And now we're like, there's so many pictures on the Internet. But then there was one moment when she had the follow up where for whatever reason, and I've never had this thought before, it did resonate like, oh, I do know that feeling, like when something happens and you're so worried.

[Monica Padman]

Well, one. So in the follow up email, I have it in front of me and when you read it on the podcast, you. You did leave out the last line.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Oh.

[Monica Padman]

And she says, so I'm obviously still really struggling with this issue.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Shit, that's rough. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it's. This just gets so tricky knowing how this ends.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. Really, I. I'm honestly so uncomfortable right now knowing that we even addressed it on air after hearing this.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And it is all relevant, which I think we touched on last week. But Armchair Expert has a show. We have multiple shows where we talk to people as well.

[Andy Rosen]

Right.

[Monica Padman]

It's a weird thing when you read someone's personal question or experience and it's dicey. Or upsetting or intense. And you get a tiny thrill.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yes. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Because you get to then deep dive in it. It's weird.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Well, I feel that's almost part of our culture now. And also as a TV writer, I'm acutely aware of that. Like people using their trauma, which is, it's beautiful if people can find positives out of their trauma and help other people. But it's almost like if you go through something, you have to then use that. And in TV writing also, I mean, there have been many times I brought my own stories in that it was really empowering. Maybe it was stories that were painful or something like that, but that shouldn't be the expectation for sure. You know, but it was like, that's a great story.

[Monica Padman]

Right.

[Elizabeth Lame]

It gets a little sparkle in the eye.

[Monica Padman]

There is a little bit of trading in trauma currency. A little bit that is just something to consider. I've just been thinking about that on my own.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah. Monica, when you say that, is it dual sided? Like one you're. There's a thrill of, ooh, we get to talk about this on the show. It'll make for a good show. Plus, ooh, I get to talk about this with the person. Like you're getting let in on a secret. Like, is it, is it both of those things or is the quality of the show the bigger one? Because I think for us it was probably for me it was that, but for you maybe it was both. Elizabeth, what do you think?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah, well, I think I got more excited about the, like, I'm connecting with this person. And when we would have follow ups, which we did with Beth, have many. And there were other particularly like young women who seem to be struggling and maybe didn't have a support system. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't help but feel a little bit like the big sister who was caring for them.

[Monica Padman]

There's a validation like you're worthy of answering this question.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Which we did make very clear on our show. I mean, the whole thing was, it's unqualified advice from two idiots. We had no qualifications to answer anything. So we hammered that home pretty well.

[Andy Rosen]

I think it is weird because I didn't. I really was. Not that Elizabeth was ever hiding any of this from me.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Up late at night, like, he's asleep.

[Andy Rosen]

No, but just I think I would never have the bandwidth to be able to even engage with people. Like, I get overwhelmed with doing emails, with talking to people. So I'm assuming you would never expect me to even know about this or do care or care, like really Care.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

Is more it at that time. But it is weird to find out after the fact just how much Elizabeth was talking to people.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah, yeah.

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[Monica Padman]

I feel like at this point you guys are just like answering sort of jovially in the way you do.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, totally.

[Monica Padman]

Do you have more interactions with her?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yes. Okay, can you flip through and see.

[Monica Padman]

The next one is. Is from her. Okay, I'm gonna read it. Hi, Elizabeth. I tried making a comment on your site, but I think I screwed something up. It's not important though. Everyone's been so supportive. Even that one guy that wasn't didn't say anything. I haven't heard a million times before from people much closer to me. Okay, so she's giving an update.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. The comments section on our website comes into play here in a pretty big way. And that was kind of step one. There was some guy. I think his name was Frank, and he was poking the bear. So she went and commented, hey, I'm the girl from the episode. Because people were already weighing in, like, I feel so bad for her.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And so he came in and was basically slut shaming her and.

[Monica Padman]

Really?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yes.

[Monica Padman]

So I have these comments in front of me. There's a. There's a bunch.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And I think it started off nicely.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, it was mostly supportive.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. So lots here. Then I see Frank. So I'll read that. Because that's what Beth was referring to. Frank. To the girl in the nude photos. Yeah. If you need to go to therapy to get over this, then do it. But you don't get to control how other people feel about it. Apparently other people here think you did nothing wrong, and that's fine. Many people wouldn't feel that way. I hate to say it, but I think you should feel a little bad about it. Not because I'm religious at all. Because I think you helped contribute to the idea that women are just sex objects for men to enjoy. You're worried that your in laws will find out about this? Well, there's some. And maybe their future grandchildren can be very negatively affected by your actions. So maybe you should try putting yourself in their shoes before you start Complaining about how they might feel about you.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Now, Elizabeth, you responded to this.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I did, yeah. Oh, okay.

[Monica Padman]

I'm gonna read it.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Okay.

[Monica Padman]

From Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Oh, God.

[Monica Padman]

Oy vey. Frank, this is incredibly harsh. And for what purpose exactly? I mean, have you ever made a mistake? Do you understand that she did these photos before the Internet was what it was today. How could she possibly imagine that the seemingly innocuous way to make some money when she needed it would haunt her for the rest of her life? And to your statement about contributing to the idea that women are just sex objects, here's my thought on that. You are a man. I assume from your name you have no place to weigh in on this for a woman. For the same reason I took nude photos. You love to bring up your nude photos.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I don't even remember.

[Andy Rosen]

You're on fire until that.

[Elizabeth Lame]

We really need to talk about that too.

[Monica Padman]

For the same reason I took nude photos as a young woman. Women's relationships with their bodies and sexuality is complicated to a degree that men do not understand. Not that I think she should have had the foresight to understand how mass spread her photos would be and to what degree they would be used. But even if she did, she could have chosen to do this, to empower herself to her own sexuality, et cetera. And she owes nothing to the concerns of how this or her in laws or family feel. I really, really hate this comment. It feels so abusive and counterproductive and for no good reason other than you want to sh someone for a choice they made a very long time ago and cannot change and are trying to heal from.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Wow.

[Andy Rosen]

Shut it down.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Andy Rosen]

So impressive.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Andy Rosen]

And I'm also so embarrassed that like, I wouldn't even be able to type word1 of a response to that guy's asshole comment. Like I wouldn't even know where to begin. That's really impressive.

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I love that you defended her. And obviously what I can gather is like, at this point you're invested. You care.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I care, Yeah. I think I'm caring a lot at this point.

[Andy Rosen]

And do you think because of the overwhelming response on the website, like with all the comments and then especially this guy where you're like, oh, I'm invested. Or were you invested before you even saw the audience response to the question?

[Elizabeth Lame]

I think I was invested also. You know, we would get questions along these lines or something like this pretty frequently that we are answering through the lens of two liberal people living in LA with like, you know, we would get questions about people Coming out and things like that, where I also think it was easy for us to go. No, don't say anything. Don't worry about it. But then when I took a step back and had more interactions with her and realized she's coming from a place where the people surrounding her have a very different mindset than the people surrounding us. Yeah, I took it more seriously, I think.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. And this comment section is huge. There are so many comments about this question and people really engaging, like, back and forth. I see a lot from Natasha, who's a woman who it seems is kind of on your side. Elizabeth. And yes. And Anders, Frank, back and forth.

[Andy Rosen]

Is there like one pro comment we could hear over there, Monica?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Also, I see Beth's response. Hi, everyone. I'm the girl in the nude photos online, she says, and yes, except for the name, there's nothing to hide that it's me. Not even Photoshop or dyed hair. It was so interesting hearing two strangers have the same conversation that I've been having with my fiance for months and with myself for years. My fiance is on the same page as you guys, saying, however other people treat me, I should be accepting of this the way he is. And rationally, I know that's true. And I'm starting to accept that I need to get into therapy. Weirdly enough, maybe the clearest proof of that was how I reacted as soon as Elizabeth began reading my letter. I felt my whole body clench, as if Elizabeth and Andy was going to say something really hurtful or judgmental, even though I didn't really believe that for a second. To address the question of whether or not I'm carrying around a lot of shame from this. When I took the pictures, I certainly wasn't ashamed at all and would have defended them the way I'd still defend another woman's right to do this. When I say I didn't want to do it, I only mean that I didn't do it as an act of self expression or want it to be my contribution to the world. But after years of some pretty harsh treatment from a small minority of people, yeah, I definitely feel a lot of shame about this. I know I shouldn't, but how I know I should feel and how I actually do feel have become very different. Okay. So she then goes on to address Frank. Specifically, she says, frank, it absolutely blows my mind that you apparently heard my letter and interpreted that to mean that I'm whining about people thinking mean things about me. Of course, people are free to think Whatever they want. Even comments like yours are common enough that they don't hurt my feelings. Usually, though, it's women who are telling me that I'm setting feminism back or leading men into temptation or whatever. So congrats. So for Natasha, because you asked, and Frank, because you genuinely seem oblivious to what women can go through. I'll have to write another comment soon. I'm just out of time right now explaining some of the treatment I've gotten that has actually hurt me so much. And I'm sorry if I'm complaining too much for your taste. From Other Elizabeth.

[Andy Rosen]

Damn, I didn't know she weighed in like that.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Yes, she weighs in.

[Elizabeth Lame]

That was one. I mean, I rarely, like, mediated in the comment section.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And that was one where I definitely kind of.

[Monica Padman]

You felt like you needed to be a part of.

[Elizabeth Lame]

It's interesting because Natasha was another listener who you'll remember from last episode. She's the Norwegian dancer that I kind of like, formed a bond with. And she was very active in, like, the community, I guess. And she and Beth, I think, via this specific comment section, formed a connection.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, that is what it said. Seeming like there's one from Natasha that says, and this is a while later. Also, everyone's referring to her as Other Elizabeth, which is funny. Other Elizabeth. Has there been any update on the question you first wrote about? Did you decide to talk to your fiance? If so, how'd they take it? I know it's none of my business, but my husband and I have been so concerned for you. Even though we feel you did absolutely nothing wrong, we also acknowledge that people can be very sensitive anytime female sexuality comes up.

[Andy Rosen]

Who's that one?

[Monica Padman]

Natasha.

[Andy Rosen]

Oh, geez.

[Monica Padman]

So the next day, there was a email from Beth. Tonight I told a lot of people about my nude photos. It went so much worse than I ever imagined. It was the worst night of my life. I've never felt so worthless. Thanks anyway for trying to help me.

[Andy Rosen]

And that's it?

[Monica Padman]

No sign off. That's really intense.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Also, I should. That was 2:33am Oof. You respond at a normal time, 11:00am 11.

[Andy Rosen]

But then at the same day. The same day, though.

[Monica Padman]

Same day.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I say, oh, shit, Beth, I'm so sorry it went that way. Will you please promise me that you'll get into therapy asap? This broke my heart. And while I know it is awful right now, I trust that you will get to a place where you see that anyone who judges you for what you did in your past with your own body, that wasn't hurting anyone else is not someone worthy of your respect or worry. I understand this is your family in law and will be hard to navigate, but I know you will find peace within yourself which will allow you to find peace with their ignorance. What you did is totally okay. The repercussions, I understand have been hard for you to contend with. But remember, you had no idea that was going to happen with this photo shoot. At worst, it was an honest mistake you made as a young woman. At best it was something you chose to do to make some cash. And you have no shame about the human body or sexuality, which is a good thing any way you slice it is not worthy of judgment and anyone who thinks otherwise is small minded, cruel and would find a way to be toxic towards you and others if this weren't it. I'm sending you love. Please go speak with someone and lean on your husband to be for support.

[Andy Rosen]

That's really sweet.

[Monica Padman]

It is.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I think this was the first red flag for me of like, her saying I feel worthless.

[Monica Padman]

These are big statements.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. And I think I was realizing I'm maybe in over my head at this point. Her first email. So playful. You might recognize my vagina. And like. And I think at this moment in time I realize, oh, this is serious. And so I followed up later that day. So that was 11am and then.

[Monica Padman]

11:13. Oh God, five minutes later.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Will you, Will you keep me posted on how you're feeling about all of this? I really want to be there to hug you. I'm so sorry you're going through this for something so benign, in my opinion.

[Andy Rosen]

Whoa. So you're.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Now I'm.

[Andy Rosen]

You're spinning out. Yeah, it's five minutes later.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I think I am spinning out. And I, I think I did realize.

[Monica Padman]

Oh God, she responds that day at 11:35. Thanks so much. I guess my fiance really did expect everyone to be totally fine with it when some people started saying that now they couldn't trust my judgment or my honesty or asked him to think about problems that might cause in the future. He defended me, but as he drove me home. God. But as he drove me home, he started talking about how he, quote, owed it to his family to take their concerns seriously and I deserved to marry into a family that accepted me unconditionally. He just kept saying those two things. Before the drive was over, he had put the engagement quote on hold while he thought about things. But I know it's not happening if he's this uncertain about me now. I'm seeing a therapist next week And I have a good few friends to lean on. Thank you so much for the support from you and your other listeners. So her life is unraveling and you're.

[Elizabeth Lame]

At the computer again.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, these aren't texts. These are emails.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Emails. I say, oh, my God, Beth, that is awful. I hope this is just an incredibly huge lapse in judgment on his part and that he comes to you today begging for forgiveness, and you will both have to work on rebuilding trust because of his betrayal if he doesn't and continues to side with his ignorant family. I truly, again, think this is a gift for you, even though it seems impossible to see it that way. But if a man you're about to marry is so easily able to turn against you for a choice you made so long ago, I can't imagine it would be easy to navigate life with him as a teammate when the going really gets tough. I mean, this is all over a few photos you took as a young woman.

[Beth (Listener/Email Writer)]

So ridiculous.

[Elizabeth Lame]

He's willing to throw his happiness and love away for something as benign as that. Ugh. I'm so sorry. Anyway, thank you for the update. Keep me posted and know that I'm rooting for you.

[Andy Rosen]

That's kind of a big swing you took there.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I know. I'm kind of weirded out listening back to this, that I'm basically just telling her to blow up her life.

[Andy Rosen]

They're engaged. It's on pause. But you not knowing that much of their relationship or whatnot are like you're dodging a bullet if this falls apart with your person that you want to marry.

[Monica Padman]

You're in deep.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah, too deep. It's like the parasocial relationship tables have turned, and now I'm the one giving very disruptive advice.

[Monica Padman]

A few days later, Beth responds. I was hoping you could do me a crazy favor. Could you just take a look at one of my galleries? I'm begging.

[Andy Rosen]

If you don't want to wait for more Beth's Dead, you can binge the entire series [e-mail] Bethstead where all 10 episodes are available ad free. Right now, Beth's Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman. And nobody's listening, right? It is produced by Monica Padman, Elizabeth Lame, and Andy Rosen. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music by Andy Rose.

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