EP3 - I'm Begging You

Summary

BETH'S DEAD – EP3: "I’m Begging You" (Nov 6, 2025)

Podcast: BETH'S DEAD
Hosts: Monica Padman, Elizabeth Laime, Andy Rosen
Episode Theme:
This episode dives deeper into the catastrophic consequences of a parasocial relationship gone wrong, focusing on Elizabeth's evolving and increasingly intense correspondence with a listener, "Beth." The hosts dissect the emotional journey, blurred boundaries, escalating intimacy, and the tragic culmination of their online connection. The episode also grapples with tough questions around responsibility, codependency, and the dangers of crossing lines in listener-podcaster dynamics.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Exploring how advice-giving podcasts can blur the lines between entertainment and real-life impact.
• Unpacking Elizabeth’s escalating relationship with listener Beth, highlighting how parasocial connections can spiral.
• Grappling with issues of codependency, boundaries, and the unintended emotional burden on both sides.
• Revealing, through unfolding email exchanges, the series of red flags and the tragic outcome of Beth’s life.
• Reflection on responsibility, hindsight, and the ethics of interacting with vulnerable listeners.

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1. Establishing the Situation and Boundaries

Recap & Turning Point

• Monica opens by recapping a crucial moment—Elizabeth giving Beth life-changing advice about leaving her fiancé ([00:52]).
• Elizabeth admits:
  "Yeah, that was wild. I’m still surprised…how comfortable I was giving that sort of huge life advice.” ([01:09], Elizabeth)

Discussion – Boundaries With Listeners

• Andy highlights the difference between giving flippant “podcast advice” and handling intimate life crises:
  “Usually it was in a much more light-hearted way where this one…I don’t think is intimate…Not like a personal.” ([02:10], Andy)
• Elizabeth reflects on how podcasting with Andy now is fully collaborative, but back then, lives were more separate. She notes she wasn’t sharing these interactions with Andy and wonders whether she should have:
  “Even now, if I’m preoccupied with literally anything…the stupidest shit, I’m saying to you…” ([05:12], Elizabeth)
• Monica gently probes, asking if Elizabeth found satisfaction in being Beth’s go-to confidante. Elizabeth acknowledges this:
  “I was probably the only kind of big sister voice and she seemed to be leaning very heavily on me…once again, I do feel like at this point in my life, that probably felt empowering to me. And I also had two little babies…” ([04:07], Elizabeth)

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2. Escalation of Intimacy: The Photo Incident

Beth’s Desperate Email & Elizabeth’s Dilemma

• Beth’s emotionally fraught plea lands in Elizabeth’s inbox, including a request for her to look at lingerie photos she fears have destroyed her engagement:

  "I really need a sane, reasonable person who isn’t too close to me or trying to sleep with me to take a look and tell me, did I do something much worse than I thought? I’m begging, please be honest…" ([05:41], Beth’s email read by Monica)

• Elizabeth candidly responds to whether she looked:
  "I did. And…kind of icky, honestly…It kind of put me in this weird position of being like, they’re fine but they’re gorgeous. What’s not fine?" ([07:00], Elizabeth)

Reflection – Crossing a Line

• With Andy and Monica probing, the group reflects on whether Elizabeth became too emotionally invested.
• Monica asks if Elizabeth is codependent. This leads to a discussion that clarifies the difference between codependency and healthy interdependency, with Monica sharing her own experience:
  "My whole day was spent thinking about it…It became my whole identity.” ([09:14], Monica on her relationship with Dax)
• Elizabeth considers if her own behavior fits and offers:
  “If Andy and I have a fight…that night, I am not sleeping…until balance is restored.” ([11:06], Elizabeth)
• She confesses feeling responsible for Beth’s emotional spirals:
  “I’ve now become a part of the twists and turns that her life has taken. And it hasn’t gone well.” ([12:10], Elizabeth)

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3. The Emotional Transaction: Advice and Confessions

Beth Spirals Further — Seeking Acceptance

• Beth pleads confidentiality and forgiveness, terrified the photos render her “unfit to be a wife” ([12:42], Monica reading Beth).
• Monica narrates the rapid, real-time exchange of emails as Beth’s anxieties snowball.

Elizabeth’s Supportive Reply, But With Reservations

• Elizabeth’s response is empathetic, body-positive, and fiercely supportive:

  "Honestly, all you see that is considered taboo are your nipples, which I feel very strongly that everyone needs to get over seeing a naked boob…If he’s still shaming you just because his family is, I would honestly bounce." ([14:54], Elizabeth email)

• Monica calls it a “big swing,” and Andy observes the unintended weight private advice carries compared to public podcasting ([15:33]-[16:14]).

Blurred Boundaries & Reflexivity

• Elizabeth acknowledges, in hindsight, how the public and private lines blurred: “I kind of did…the lines between our podcast and my personal relationship with Beth got blurred.” ([17:06], Elizabeth)
• She recognizes her motivation wasn’t purely altruistic: “I think having people look up to me felt great, you know, so it’s half me, like, wanting to help her, and then I think it’s half my ego needing this little ego massage.” ([19:44], Elizabeth)

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4. Intimacy Peaks: Money and the ‘Mentorship’ Trap

Monetary Gift & Emotional Impact

• Beth sends Elizabeth $1,000 via PayPal, shocking all involved:

  “Which for our…I mean, that was definitely the biggest donation we had received for our podcast…she had talked extensively about having needed money when she was younger, all that stuff. And she’s young, still young, so that seemed big.” ([24:07], Elizabeth)

• The group processes the creepiness and gratitude:
  Andy: “…this just felt like too much. Sort of.” ([25:12]) Elizabeth: “I actually thought it was a typo. Oh, and I emailed her. Oh, is that there? No, no.” ([25:19])

Beth’s Emotional Reciprocity

• Beth sends a gut-wrenching thank you, equating Elizabeth to a lifesaving maternal figure:

  “I can’t believe that people so close to me let me down. But I also can’t believe that a stranger like you was there when I needed you…” ([26:25], Monica reading Beth)

• Elizabeth, having herself lost her parents young, is deeply moved:
  “For the listeners to this show, a huge part of my life is that I lost my mom when I was still a teenager…I really…yeah.” ([27:33], Elizabeth)

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5. Gender, Emotional Affairs, and Secrecy

• Andy acknowledges how gender shapes this whole conversation about emotional intimacy: “If this was with a man, I would be freaking out.” ([29:34], Andy)

• Elizabeth reflects on boundaries and not involving Andy in the email exchanges: “…I felt like I was helping this young woman who needed help. He wouldn’t have cared and so like, I didn’t need to burden him with my own shit.” ([31:04], Elizabeth)

• Monica notes the oddness of having a “secret” emotional project in marriage:
  “That is one of the weird parts now for me is this was a whole thing going on that I really didn’t know about. Not that she was necessarily hiding it…” ([32:08], Andy)

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6. Red Flags and the Mounting Crisis

Beth Reveals Past Trauma and Suicidal Thoughts

• Beth shares that she has no friends locally, her fiancé broke up with her, and her most dependable support system was gone ([41:00]-[49:00]).

• Most devastatingly, Beth admits:

  “If I can be 100% honest, the last few days have been such a shock to me and hurt so much that I seriously considered ending my life over the weekend. And thank God I don't own a gun…” ([36:10], Monica reading Beth)

• Elizabeth, in hindsight, wishes she had only referred Beth to resources rather than continued private engagement:
  “…I’m horrified that we got this email where she talks about having contemplated suicide and that not only did I continue engaging with her, whereas I should have just given her resources…” ([39:06], Elizabeth)

• The hosts reflect on how ill-equipped most people are to handle confessions of suicidal ideation, and that in real time, it may not have felt as alarming as it should have:
  Monica: “...if you don’t have any experience with this, she’s saying I thought this but I’m okay now…Which is not ever really the case…” ([40:03], Monica)

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7. Podcast Reframing & Community Involvement

On-air Processing of Beth’s Experience

• Clip played from a subsequent episode, in which Elizabeth reframes Beth’s harassment as part of larger misogyny and societal hypocrisy:

  “To me, what is the crux of misogyny, which is setting women up so they literally can’t win.”* ([43:14], Elizabeth)

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8. Other Listener Entanglements: Natasha and Anders

Introduction of Natasha, Anders, and the Superfan Dynamic

• Natasha, a “superfan” and podcast regular, is revealed to have initiated a flirty relationship with Elizabeth over email:

  “After some obvious choices, my husband told me that you, Elizabeth, were one of his biggest crushes…we had independently come to the conclusion that you’re one sexy lady…” ([53:49], Natasha's email)

• Elizabeth acknowledges enjoying but keeping Natasha at arm’s length, seeing her as “a hardcore fan that I kind of knew to keep a little bit at arm’s length.” ([57:20], Elizabeth)

Community Web Growing

• Natasha reaches out to Beth, and soon Natasha’s husband, Anders, also becomes involved, a web of podcast fans now entwining around Beth.

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9. The Tragedy Unfolds

Beth’s Final Updates

• Beth’s last emails are bleak, noting she’s “not suicidal anymore but…not exactly feeling ready to take on the world either.” ([49:06], Monica)

Catastrophic News Arrives

• Anders emails with devastating news:

  “Yesterday, Beth attempted suicide. She was comatose for a while. The doctors now seem confident that she’ll survive, but not without extreme brain damage that will likely leave her severely handicapped.”* ([58:33], Anders’ email)

• Elizabeth receives an email from someone identifying as Beth’s brother confirming the attempted suicide ([59:34]).

• The final gut punch comes:

  “Just after 4am, my amazing sister Beth passed away. We are all completely devastated. My only hope is that she is reunited with her mother. Thank you all for the love and kindness you gave to my sister.” ([61:02], Monica reading “Jason’s” email)

• Elizabeth is shattered, expressing guilt and heartbreak:
  “It’s, like, devastating. I mean, even now, it’s really hard hearing it. I mean, you heard what she meant to me and how I kind of became part of the whole journey and also maybe didn’t make all the right moves to help her. And it’s so sad…” ([60:19], Elizabeth)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Advice-Giving:
  Monica, reflecting on boundaries:

  “But I do think there’s so much thoughtful stuff in that. But I think that response is appropriate on the podcast, like us answering it on the show…It takes on a completely different character when it’s a private email.” ([16:10])

• On Blurred Lines:
  Elizabeth:

  “I kind of did…like, the lines between our podcast and my personal relationship with Beth got blurred.” ([17:06])

• On Guilt and Aftermath:
  Elizabeth:

  “I just can’t fathom just saying that and always wondering what happened to that young woman, you know?” ([33:44])

• On Parasocial Dangers:
  Monica:

  “That’s what’s interesting, right? Like, at what point do we just, like, take on this therapist role that we shouldn’t be taking on?” ([16:14])

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Key Timestamps

• [00:52] – Recap of the big "leave your fiancé" advice from Elizabeth
• [05:41] – Beth’s desperate email and photo request
• [14:54] – Elizabeth’s full-throated email of support
• [24:07] – Beth sends $1,000 via PayPal
• [26:25] – Beth’s moving gratitude email—“When I needed my fiancé most, he abandoned me…can’t believe a stranger like you was there…”
• [36:10] – Beth admits to seriously considering suicide
• [58:33] – Anders emails: Beth’s suicide attempt and prognosis
• [61:02] – Email from Jason: Beth has died

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• The hosts reveal how easily the lines between listener and host, fan and friend, can dissolve—with catastrophic results.
• Elizabeth’s attempt to be empathetic and supportive morphs into a high-stakes emotional entanglement she couldn’t anticipate or manage.
• The episode is a powerful warning about the risks of overstepping digital intimacy boundaries and the complexity of being “helpful” to those in deep crisis.
• It closes with a reminder on the gravity of suicidal ideation and a resource:
  “If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone. And help is available. In the US, dial 988…”

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This summary captures the flow and emotional intensity of the episode, preserving the reflective, self-critical, and open-ended tone the hosts bring to this troubling chapter in their story.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

We're back for episode three of Beth's Dad. Last week we were going back through these messages and Elizabeth, you took kind of a really a big swing, I would say, by suggesting to Beth that she maybe leave her fiance.

[C]

Yeah, that was wild. I'm still surprised looking back on that, how comfortable I was giving that sort of huge life advice. Even though I felt really, and listening to it, still feel strongly that, you know, his reactions weren't.

[B]

Would you do that to a friend? Someone you like, knew.

[A]

No, you can't do that to a friend.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You kind of can't. It always backfires.

[C]

You have to be really careful. And maybe that's why I felt like I could because I'm outside of the inner circle. Right. With a friend there's always the concern that they're gonna get back together or that's gonna alienate you from the friends.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We also got a lot of questions like this on the show in general and sometimes I would especially kind of just joke about it. We even had a saying that I would say, Andy says bounce.

[B]

Yeah, I remember.

[A]

So we were used to taking big steps, taking that road sort of. But usually it was in a much more light hearted way where this one.

[B]

I don't think is intimate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not like a personal. Because you didn't know they were emailing, right?

[A]

No, I was oblivious.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's really interesting to me now because we run everything by each other. I, I, we, we're now podcasting full time together and I just cannot imagine a world now where I would be doing this and not talking to you about it. But I think our lives were a little bit more separate back then and there were the babies and.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Huh. That's interesting.

[A]

I also don't like email.

[C]

What?

[A]

I also just don't like email.

[C]

But. Well, I wasn't asking you to field the emails or anything. I'm just saying like running the, like.

[A]

You were like doing all these emails is Like, I would never see him. But I. I guess you're saying you would share it with me.

[C]

But yeah, I'd say, look, look what this girl that we talked about on the podcast, it's. I actually, this is crazy because it was a big swing and things get complicated from here. Even more so. I stand by this, though.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

If you're starting a relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it is this hard. And this is advice my sister gave me in previous relationships. It shouldn't be this hard right at this juncture when you're just starting out and it feels really hard. I don't think that that is a good foundation to build a long, long term relationship on.

[A]

I think you could also argue that this type of show, seeking advice for that. In many of these cases, people are going outside of their friends because they kind of want to hear the real deal. Yeah. So I don't know, that might be something too.

[B]

Just not to like, put you on the spot, please. But I do, I do wonder, do you think you kind of liked that it was just yours?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, I think I did feel like, yeah. I was probably the only kind of big sister voice and she seemed to be leaning very heavily on me and what I thought through this. And I think Andy's right. She probably didn't have lots of other, you know, it seemed like I was the go to. And so once again, I do feel like at this point in my life, that probably felt empowering to me. And I also had two little babies.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I wonder if it was also like me feeling very motherly and almost practicing feeling motherly or maternal.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, I'm sure that clearly I was getting something out of it because I. I was engaging in these. Spending so much of my time, you know, communicating with her, worrying about her when I wasn't emailing, checking in on her, you know, it was.

[A]

So you were preoccupied by it.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It wasn't just like, oh, I'm gonna email this person back. Because that's a distinction to me, sort of.

[C]

That's why I'm saying, like, now if I'm preoccupied with literally anything, the stupidest shit I'm saying to you, you know, hey, that I had this interaction at school drop off and it's like spinning in my head.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So it's interesting to me that I wasn't bringing it to you.

[A]

And it's also like, it's probably hard to know. We would be speculating, but if there was a part of you that felt that you shouldn't tell me Back then or now like it is. Yeah.

[B]

Hard to know. Revisionist history. Yeah. Yeah. But she obviously did want your advice. Was taken happily by her because she continues to email with you. So I'm gonna hop into the next interaction. The next email she sent you, she says, I was hoping you could do me a crazy favor. Could you just take a look at one of my galleries? There are lots more pictures than this, but they never got more explicit or sexual than this. I've never asked someone to look at my pictures before, but I really need a sane, reasonable person who isn't too close to me or trying to sleep with me to take a look and tell me, did I do something much worse than I thought? I'm begging, please be honest. I. I thought good people would be able to completely accept this. But right now I'm so desperate that I settle for just being forgiven. I always knew these pictures might offend some people, but I never thought they'd make me unfit to be a wife. I feel so weird asking someone to look at these, but I'm so upset right now. Maybe I'm just going crazy. If you do look at these, please let me know what you think. I need to start asking for people's forgiveness. I just don't understand what's happening, and it's breaking my heart.

[C]

And then she sent the link to one of her photo.

[B]

Did you look at the pictures?

[C]

I did.

[B]

And did you tell Andy? Did you share with him?

[C]

No.

[B]

How are you feeling when you looked at the pictures?

[C]

Kind of icky. Honestly, like, I. I guess I didn't know. I guess she said she wanted me to see them, basically to say, they're not that bad.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You must have felt that you had to, no matter what, say that.

[C]

And they weren't. I mean, I don't. But then also getting into, what is that bad?

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, so it kind of put me in this weird position of being like, they're fine, but they're gorgeous. What's not fine? You know?

[B]

Exactly. But can you. Okay. On a scale of 1 to 10.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

10 being, like, fully naked.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Close up and touching.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. That's ten.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And then one is in underwear. Lingerie.

[C]

Great. Like, was it two to three? Oh, you know, it was mostly lingerie. Yeah. So I felt a little pinned down. And I think I kind of wished I hadn't really looked at it because it doesn't matter. And I wish I had just come out and said, I don't need to check these out. It doesn't matter.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I think she kind of started to spiral about having sent them to me.

[A]

There's kind of no world in which you couldn't have checked them out, though, Right. Like, I understand what you're saying. That response would have probably been more appropriate. Well, I wish you would have clicked the link no matter what. Probably, right.

[C]

Yeah. I wish I just told her I hadn't looked, but, I mean, obviously I was looking.

[B]

Who would not look at this point? You're in a relationship with her. I mean, at this point, you guys are emailing back and forth, minutes apart.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, before we hop into the emails. Cause I was thinking about this last night. Would you qualify yourself as a codependent person?

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's so funny you say that, because I was talking to someone I was working with a couple days ago about this. I don't even think I really understand what it is. Can you guys explain it to me?

[B]

Yes. So codependency is different than interdependency, because interdependency is a good thing. It's like what we need to live in relationships and relying on one another. But codependency, it's most often common in addiction and partners of addicts.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Where basically the codependent person, the person in the relationship is really only okay if their partner is okay. Oh, and the addict almost becomes your own addict. I am one for sure. And, you know, we're very vocal on armchair about it, so I feel comfortable talking about it. But when I felt like Dax was relapsing, which it was, my whole day was spent thinking about it, kind of pulling it apart, looking at him, identifying it, asking, are you okay? What's going on? It became my whole identity.

[A]

So you're consumed with their kind of reality? Almost, Or. I don't. That's not a great way to putting it.

[C]

You're adopting their struggle or their.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. And it becomes this need to fix the person and be the person that can fix the person, which leads me to this. That's why I was sort of wondering if you had that tendency.

[C]

Well, you know, I've never heard it put that way. I've always thought codependence was more like, I'm the person who's always dropping everything to go be there for my friends. But I'm only doing that, really, to kind of lord it over them. It's almost like, I don't know, banking goodwill.

[B]

Like having strings attached or something.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Goodness.

[C]

Doesn't sound like that's what it is, but.

[B]

Well, sort of Similar. If it's at any point, if that person needs me, I'm there. It doesn't matter what I'm doing.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'll go.

[C]

So when you put it the way you just did, I will say, if Andy and I have a fight or if he's upset with me that night, I am not sleeping.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Andy, meanwhile, snoring so loud, snoozing like a baby, having the best sleep of his life. And I'm like, how are you doing that? So in that sense, I kind of. I can't feel at peace until.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I don't know.

[C]

Balance is restored.

[A]

I don't know if that gets into this area, though. That's just like, you're having a normal response and I'm a monster, basically. Like. But you know what I mean? It's like, oh, you had a fight and you're thinking about it. I don't know if that qualifies because it's not like you're laying in bed worrying about how I'm doing and how you're gonna fix that for me.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

Right. You're more, like, angry that I'm just asleep, probably.

[C]

Well, I'm not angry that you're asleep. I just know until we are kind of back at equilibrium, I'm not going to feel at ease with things. Whereas I think that you could move on or you can compartmentalize better or something. I mean, I was emailing her back, right. Five minutes. I was clearly consumed by this. And I think it was more that I felt a responsibility.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I realized, oh, I've now become a part of the. The twists and turns that her life has taken.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it hasn't gone well.

[B]

Right. And you feel a part of that in some way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, so let's hop back into where we left off, email wise. So after you saw the pictures, there are a few emails before you've responded saying you saw the pictures.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So she's spiraling out.

[B]

Yes, she's spiraling out, but. Because then she says, I hope this goes without saying. I don't really care who sees these anymore, but please, please, please don't mention my real name and connection with them. If that became any more widely known than it is, I'd only have a future as a porn star or a trophy wife or something. And I know I've asked you something insane. I really am that desperate, though. I'm so sorry. Clearly, I'm having a hard time right now, but those last Messages were so inappropriate. I'm truly sorry. So she also. Even if you were thinking maybe I just let this go, you can't. I mean, she's desperate.

[A]

Okay, how much time is elapsing?

[B]

All of these emails are on the same day. 4:40. 4. 4:40. 7. 7:22. Okay, it's 7:40. Same day. Elizabeth responds.

[C]

Oh God, this is such a like painful exercise. This is me writing back to her at 7.40pm hey lady. Oh my God. Do not worry about it at all. Okay, My first thought was that I truly did not need to check out your photos to know how I feel about this entire situation, which remains that no matter what is happening in these photos, you were just. You were just you being nude in your. In your own body and having some sexy pictures taken by your own choice to make some money. And there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself at all. Then curiosity got the best of me and I did check it out. And what the fuck is wrong with people? I mean, these are so harmless in my opinion and do not even scratch the surface of anything to feel ashamed of. We see more lewd photos on the daily just in regular advertisements all over the place. Honestly, all you see. I hate myself right now. All you see that is considered taboo are your nipples, which I feel very strongly that everyone needs to get over seeing a naked boob. I'm sorry not to laugh at this, but I'm laughing at me in parentheses. More thoughts on that here. And then I link to a Cosmopolitan article I wrote about public breastfeeding shaming that you wrote. Yeah. Never miss an opportunity to self promote.

[B]

You never know. You never know.

[C]

I'm horrified. Okay, I've probably done far more shocking things publicly than this several times over. Haha. I honestly am so upset for you that these photos of all things are what is causing you so much pain and grief. I truly hope you understand that from the perspective of an outsider. These people are all a bunch of judgmental, holier than thou who probably have far worse skeletons in their own closets if they feel entitled to shame someone so ridiculously for something so benign. I'm not sure what's going on with you and your fiance, but if he's still shaming you just because his family is, I would honestly bounce.

[A]

Oh wow, another big swing.

[C]

Keep me posted. And now I'm starting to sign off my emails with Xo.

[A]

Okay, how? I'm just curious again. There's so much very good thoughtful stuff in there. I don't know if I agree with the bounce stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, that being said, I'm not. I'm not trying to make you feel bad about it, because I do think there's so much thoughtful stuff in that. But I think that response is appropriate on the podcast, like us answering it on the show, which oftentimes we did stuff like that. I think it takes on a completely different character when it's a private email with someone that you don't really know that well.

[C]

Yeah, I got a lot.

[A]

It has so much more weight. There is a difference. To me.

[B]

There definitely is. But I see how easily it happens, where it just is a slow progression, and all of a sudden you're. You're in it and you're giving your real advice, especially when someone's struggling. But I guess that's what's interesting, right? Like, at what point do we just, like, take on this therapist role that we shouldn't be taking on?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like I did the reverse of what I think a lot of podcast listeners do. Fans. And I say this as a podcast fan who listens to podcasts, and I do this, too. Podcaster is also where you think you know them on a level, but you only know them on the level of a podcast listener and podcast host. I kind of did. Like, the lines between our podcast and my personal relationship with Beth got blurred.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So I, like, reverse engineered that whole thing, and I lost track of what the big picture of this all was about, which is we have this public for consumption podcast. It's half entertainment, half us trying to give genuinely good advice. And I should have kept that boundary in place, but I couldn't help myself. And it is kind of me thinking that I have answers that other people don't, which is not right now. Obviously, I realize that. But at the time, I was like, oh, I came from St. Louis. I came from a conservative Catholic upbringing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Now I have a completely opposite mindset. So I almost felt like I could be the, like, Sherpa. For this young woman to be like, it's. It's better out there, and it is clear.

[A]

But we. I mean, we went over this last time. I do. I think all of us here can see how it happens. It escalated so quickly with this series of events.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was the question, then the emails. You were in it and felt responsible, which I don't want. You feel weird about that, I guess.

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it's very interesting to look back on. I also, like. It's a little wild. I'm like, oh, is Breastfeeding, my son, working just, like, glued. And Andy has no idea about it.

[B]

This is the part I, I, I'm fascinated by this part because I also know people who've had relationships like this. Not exactly, but sort of where there's this side relationship. Not like sexual or anything, but I'm actually thinking of a very specific friend of mine who had a, a friend, and she was basically a mentor to this person. But it really got complicated. It got complicated. It got extremely intimate.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

I mean, she just became that person's go to. And my friend is in a marriage and has a really big job, and. But her focus kind of became this mentee. And there's 100 million stories like this, and it doesn't mean any. I guess I just want to sort of erase the stigma. Like, I think it's easy. It's so easy to get sucked into something like this.

[C]

It makes you feel good. And also, we had talked about this when we all first met to talk about this. You know, I think this was a time in my life where I had sold my first pilot, but I had worked so hard to get my career going. Andy's career found its footing before mine did, and I felt like everyone around me was having things happen for them for so long, and I was just kind of, you know, trudging my way up the mountain one step at a time. And I think having people look up to me felt great, you know, so it's half me, like, wanting to help her, and then I think it's half my ego needing this little ego massage.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then, then I think by this point in time, though, I think I was starting to feel like I'm in too deep and. But I can't get out. I can't get out.

[B]

No.

[C]

You know, this woman obviously needs you, is in crisis, and I'm part of it.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Oh, okay. This next email's long.

[C]

Yeah. I feel like we started writing novels to each other.

[B]

Oh, my God. She responds. Elizabeth, I wish I could give you a hug so bad right now. No, you absolutely did not need to see my photos because no one does. But thanks for taking a look anyway. The reason I was obsessing over their content is that I just really don't understand what's happened in the last few days. So maybe the photos were way more scandalous than I realized because I can't make sense of this. I know that my fiance and his family just must sound awful from what I've said, but I've gotten to know them over the last year as decent people that I really love and I thought the feeling was mutual. Then they hear this one piece of information and all of a sudden they're treating me like I'm garbage. As incredibly painful as it's been to see this, the only thing I needed for this marriage was my fiance's support. But just as suddenly he's saying that this stuff has always been a huge issue for him and that he's only been saying what he thought I wanted to hear. And yes, I so desperately wanted to hear that he accepted me and my past without hesitation, that he would love me no matter what anybody else thought. But I wanted those things to be true and it's just looking like they're not. He's still just saying that he's not sure about our future together. But I do have some self respect. I think I deserve somebody who is sure about me. I think anybody deserv deserves that much. I just didn't see all this coming. I've talked with my fiance ever since we started dating about how this might play out and he always said the right things. And I spent so much time with his family just so that they would know who I really was before they had to adjust to this news. Now they're acting like it was all a con or something. One of your listeners wondered if I was getting hassled by religious people. The weird thing is this situation is I'm the one who's really religious. My family is Mormon, but after they got over the shock of what I've done, they've completely gotten over it. They haven't just forgiven me. They don't think it was wrong either, except in the sense that it's hurt me. My fiance's family doesn't have a religious thought between them, but they're the ones treating me like that I committed a mortal sin. It's enough to make me wonder if they were just looking for an excuse to be rid of me all along. God knows I have things that are actually wrong with me other than those stupid photos. I still don't really understand what's going on with my fiance or his family, but I guess it doesn't matter. I When I needed my fiance most, he abandoned me immediately. And apparently he's been hiding his real feelings about this issue the whole time. It still breaks my heart to say this, but there's no way this relationship can continue. Thank you so much for being available. I know I crossed a line asking you to look at those photos. Probably several lines are even involving you in this, but I have no friends in this city who aren't also my fiance's friends. And I've just been dying to talk this out with somebody because I felt so betrayed that I still can't believe it's really happened this way. Single or not, I'll not only still listen to Totally Married, I'll be one of your biggest fans. I'm tearing up wishing I could hug you right now. I can't express how grateful to you I am. Wishing you lots of happiness and love. P.S. i loved the article on breastfeeding. No, it was funny, sometimes infuriating and informative about a subject I really know nothing about. I really hope you do more writing like this. And it was a real gift to have a few minutes today where I could think about something other than my own stupid problems.

[C]

That's what I'm here for.

[B]

Now a few hours later, you get a PayPal.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

You get a gift from Beth of a thousand dollars.

[C]

Yeah. Which for our. I mean, that was definitely the biggest donation we had received for our podcast.

[B]

Yeah. That's huge.

[C]

And the way I had painted her life, it just seemed like a lot, you know, because she had talked extensively about having needed money when she was younger, all that stuff. And she's young, still young, so that seemed big.

[A]

It's so funny, I'm thinking I experienced that having no idea the amount of. I mean, let's be honest, you kind of maybe earned your thousand dollars with all that writing. But like, I was like, what? A thousand dollars? And from that person, I was kind of like, that's. Whoa, that's crazy. And were you.

[B]

Were you thinking, oh, that's crazy, or were you thinking, oh, yay, this is great?

[A]

It was, oh, yay, that's great. But also it. I think it was a little, if I'm gonna be honest, like creepy. Like, that's a lot of money.

[C]

You thought it was creepy? Then I think I just was like, oh.

[A]

I mean, I was stoked, but this just felt like too much. Sort of.

[C]

Well, I actually thought it was a typo. Oh, and I emailed her. Oh, is that there? No, no.

[B]

Cuz she sent one. Oh. She says, I've been struggling to think of a way to express my gratitude for you taking the time to deal with my stupid problems. Because talk is cheap. I wish I had something else to offer instead of just literally paying you back, but I don't. So I tried making a donation. Please let me know if you don't get it, because it's been a million years since I've used this PayPal account and I don't know for sure if it works. And I can't put a dollar amount on your support, I want you to know that. But I hope this will help even a little the same day. Okay, this is interesting. Oh, Lord. Okay, Elizabeth, I just want you to hear this one last thought. My mom passed away when I was in high school. I can't believe that people so close to me let me down. But I also can't believe that a stranger like you was there when I needed you. I know your kids are lucky to have you now, and I think they're going to be so lucky as they grow and make life choices. Hopefully not some of the ones I made. I don't know if dealing with your listeners questions and problem has changed you or if you've always been such a thoughtful, kind person, but you were able to make a difference in the life of a total stranger. I hope you always remember that. For a while, I didn't know if I was going to make it through this week. I know I have no experience with parenting, but I think that your kids will be so blessed to have you as their mom. Hugs.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

Oh, my God. She. Yeah.

[A]

Were you freaking out at this point or was this, like, normalized? Do you know what I mean?

[C]

I was normalized.

[A]

And all the way it ramps up.

[C]

Hearing this back, of course, and also knowing how things unfold. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this feels dangerous. I probably at this point wished I hadn't gotten involved beyond just the podcast, but also I had already committed myself.

[B]

You know, But I wish we could go back and I wish we could rewind the tapes because I. I don't know how you don't read that and not, like, cry. Yeah, like, that's so moving.

[C]

Oh, I'm sure. I was so moved. And for the listeners to this show, a huge part of my life is that I lost my mom when I was still a teenager. I lost my dad shortly after that. So my heart really went out to her. And to have lost her mom and knowing, like, this shame she was carrying and that I knew what it was like to find Andy and have, like, a teammate and a support system and to think, like, she thought she had that and now it's not, you know, I really. Yeah.

[B]

And you knew what it was like to be missing a maternal figure.

[C]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

It just seems so intense to me. And I guess I'm. I'm just programmed differently than you. That I. That email would have made Me really uncomfortable, I think. Whereas it's interesting both of you interpreted it of like, oh, no, it get. It gets you in the emotions.

[C]

Well, this experience did change me, obviously. And even when you're talking about your friend as a mentor, mentee, I now when I hear someone talk about their mentor and. Or introduce and say, this is my mentor, I instantly get the ick. Now if it's like you're in a school system and it's your mentor who's assigned to you or whatever, that's different. And of course, I've had various people that I guess would fall under the mentor category, actually someone who's involved in the story coming up soon. Tammy Sager, I would say. But I would never designate her as my mentor. Like, that's our relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so I think this experience did shift how I see things like that. I mean, now if I got this, I would feel the same way you would have back then.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Now, would it have made a difference? I'm trying to not to like, genderize everything, but I do wonder if this was a boy, would it have made a difference?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And I think to me, I mean, people call them emotional affairs.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There are parts of hearing like, you guys read these exchanges now that make me a little uncomfortable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if this was with a man, I would be freaking out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that's interesting. But also, I don't know, I feel like your heart's in such the right place with it. But it is something that I can't relate to. I can't ever see me doing this with someone. But maybe that's not even fair to say because it does seem so logical how this did happen to you, hearing.

[C]

All of this now because this is the first time we've sat down and gone through word by word. It seems like you're. Are you disappointed? No.

[A]

It's like a mix of emotions because it is. I trust you so much. And there's nothing in here that's like breaks any sort of trust.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But if it was a man, in a weird way, it would. I would be like, why were you having that intense of an emotional transactions connections with someone back and forth like that would seem inappropriate even if it was the exact same scenario. So the only weirdness to me now, hearing this, and I saw your face when I said the trust thing, you were like, how would it be? Trust?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Of just that you were having this life going on that I didn't know about.

[C]

Yeah. But I wasn't gonna bother you with It, I mean, to the gender of it, it did feel very much like this is a woman situation for sure. I know why I didn't bring Andy into it. And it wasn't like I was hiding something. It was truly just I felt like I was helping this young woman who needed help. He wouldn't have cared and so like, I didn't need to burden him with my own shit.

[B]

Totally. Do you think there is any part of you and definitely the answer could be no, but because I assume I'm not married, so I don't, I don't know about this, but I feel like married people just talk about everything. Like I went to the store and I like this fell down and I saw it and ah, when you're at dinner just passing the time, everything from your day comes out.

[A]

You're making such a great point. Because I really think our relationship is very much like that. I mean our other podcast literally is that talking about everything and anything.

[C]

Nothing.

[A]

So I think you're hitting on something that's like. That is one of the weird parts now for me is this was a whole thing going on that I really didn't know about. Not that she was necessarily hiding it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I just had no idea of this thing we were doing together. A podcast. She was the one handling the email account.

[C]

That was the other thing though, because now on our podcast, nobody's listening. Right?

[B]

Yes. Shout out.

[C]

Andy does most of all the podcast stuff. I do, you know, some of the Instagram and Patreon stuff. But back then Andy would give me the MP3 and then I was putting it into the back end. I was moderating the website, I was engaging with people. It was my Instagram, so I kind of think I also compartmentalized into this is podcast stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I also was answering other people's emails, so.

[B]

And do you think there's any part of you that felt like if you shared it that he would say, say, you need to stop.

[C]

Yes. Oh, that's for sure.

[A]

But that's also just my nature too. You could have married somebody else that would have been like, oh my God, that's so sweet. Yeah, how sweet. Where I'd be like, why the are you doing this?

[B]

Right, right. I mean we know that. I think we all do this where we know the people to tell specific things and not tell specific things in our lives. Like, anyway.

[C]

And in this case also, I keep saying I was in too deep. At any point in time, I'm aware that I could have gone, hey, I think this is over. My pay grade. I'm really excited that you're going to see a therapist.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But the truth is, I wanted to know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Even talking through this, I'm like, I can't fathom just saying that and always wondering what happened to that young woman, you know? So.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay then. So you respond same day.

[C]

Okay, here we go. Hi, Beth. Oh, wow. This means so much to me. I'm so sorry that you also lost your mom at a young age and are now losing your fiance. In a way, this is all too much. I shared all this stuff with. My God. I shared all this stuff with Teddy's babysitter today. Andy.

[A]

I'm sorry, my husband won't listen to these kinds of things, but our babysitter will.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And also your Teddy is your daughter. Daughter. And so you're also referring like Teddy. I mean, you talked about your kids on the show and still do, so that's normal. But you're not saying I shared all this stuff with my daughter's babysitter or my daughter Teddy.

[C]

Familiar. It's familiar. Yes. I shared all this stuff with Teddi's babysitter today, who is an awesome young woman, and she was totally outraged. We are just perplexed as to how these people can be so horrified and judgmental even without any religious filter. Like, what do they want from you? To go back in time and erase a choice you made. It didn't hurt anyone. We see worse going shopping and I hate that I said worse. Anyway, so glad that your family is supportive and that you are going to start therapy. Good things are coming your way after this painful part. This email about my kids is the sweetest thing ever. I really hope I can be a great mom to them because I feel so lucky to be their mom and they have already taught me so much about love. When you become a mother, I'm going to start crying. I have no doubt this experience will play a big role in showing you how to be so compassionate and non judgmental. And obviously, it will be wonderful to become a mom with a partner who has your back. That guy, by the way, who holds sex and intimacy sacred and is also totally okay with your photos. Existing online is definitely out there. They are not mutually exclusive. Okay. And then I received the email about your PayPal donation. That is so incredibly thoughtful and generous. Just wanted to make sure you meant to make a rather large donation of a thousand 1k. I've added zeros before without meaning to, so I had to ask. Please don't be embarrassed if this is the case. We've just never received a donation that large, and I want to make sure that was your intent. Any donation is so sweet of you and while unnecessary, we really appreciate it.

[B]

Elizabeth, thank you for your very kind thoughts, and thanks for checking on the amount of my donation. But yes, 1k is absolutely the amount I meant to give you. I wish I could say it's because I'm rich, but I'm not. Then again, I'm a long way from having to undress to keep from living out of my car, so I'm not complaining. And anyway, I was saving up for so many things in our shared future that now aren't happening, so finances are the one area I'm not doing terribly right now. Let me tell you the reason I felt I had to make some kind of donation. Yes, my family loves and supports me, but at the moment, they're all stationed overseas with the military, so I haven't been able to talk with them like I've wanted to. Losing my fiance and his family is a whole problem, so I certainly couldn't talk with them. And like I said, many of my friends here are also friends with my fiance, so I don't feel like I talked openly with them. I don't know why I thought it was okay to involve you when this all went south, but I'm so glad I did. If I can be 100% honest, the last few days have been such a shock to me and hurt so much that I seriously considered ending my life over the weekend. And thank God I don't own a gun, or I probably would have without even thinking it through. Exclamation point. Thankfully, it was you and literally two other people who helped me pull away from that ledge by convincing me that I wasn't just getting what I deserved. Those two have been my close friends for years, but you didn't have any obligation to deal with me at all. I know you didn't know all these details, but you helped save my life, and I mean that in the most literal sense. So I feel any amount of money would just have been a token to say thank you for making me feel like I'm not broke and beyond repair. I hope that knowing what you did for me helps you in some way, but if it doesn't, that's what the money is for. The farther I get away from my former fiance and his family, the more signs I'm seeing that I might have dodged the biggest bullet of my life. They have been behaving in petty and genuinely cruel ways Even after I told them just how much it was hurting me. I don't know if they hid these things from me all the time or if I just ignored them. Clearly I'm not the best judge of people, but I don't mean to take anything away from this judgment. I think you're an amazing person. When your kids are old enough, you can tell them firsthand that they can save a person's life just by being kind.

[C]

Exo yeah, you know, hearing this back, not having known someone close to me who had died by suicide and so I didn't know the stakes. Now I've I just finished working on a drama that dealt with the topic of suicide quite a bit and I have a much better grasp. But at this point reading this like I'm I know we have a clip coming up that we discussed her question again and I'm horrified that we got this email where she talks about having contemplated suicide and that not only did I continue engaging with her, whereas I should have just given her resources and said I'm rowing upstream here, I can't do this. But we also then discuss her question, which I'm so scared to hear.

[A]

I'm so curious what we talk about in the episode two weeks after that like this far and me being in the dark and how you're gonna direct the conversation. I'm so curious. Introducing Family Freedom from T Mobile we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America' largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement example Apple iPhone 16128 gigs $829.99 Eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact us.

[C]

I didn't realize we had this clear of a red flag from at this point in time yet so.

[B]

But it didn't seem like a red flag. Again, if you don't have any experience with this, she's saying I thought this but I'm okay now.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Which is not ever really the case. If someone ever says something like that to you, you do have to take it extremely seriously. But how are you to know if you don't know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Before we hear the clip, she sends another email same day but you haven't responded. So I assume no response maybe made her worried and she said oh my gosh, I Shouldn't have talked about my potential suicide. You didn't need to hear that stuff. I'm so sorry. I'm so stressed right now that I'm doing things I normally never do. I'm just going to maybe leave one more comment on the site and leave you alone for a while. I think maybe we should jump into the. The clip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is you bring this back up on the show.

[C]

Cool. Oh, you know what? Do you remember the girl who wrote in who had taken nude pictures when she was young? Yeah. And all that jazz. I just wanted to share a little thing because I feel the need to kind of explore what feminism means right now with the hopeful future president of the country. Being a woman. Being a woman oftentimes feels like you just can't win. And our writer interim with that discussion about her pictures, there had been a comment that just felt again, very like frustrating and with lack of, I guess, perspective from what it's like to be a woman and going through this. And she wrote a really great comment about the shit she's gotten for having taken these pictures. Then they're beyond her control. She did it in a time of need so she wouldn't be like living out of her car. And then basically she's been fired from jobs because of it. She was in a very rapey relationship where the guy was totally respectful of her and then he found out the pictures existed and then he basically demanded, if she weren't sleeping with him, then she's a bitch because she already put nude photos of herself online so he deserves to have sex with her. And she said, these are just the tips of the iceberg when it comes to the harassment. Society is stacking the deck against girls. In my case, it was, you should be prettier eventually followed by, you're so pretty, you should model and you're pretty so you can't be good at your job. Then I modeled. Then people online were saying, yeah, she's hot, but she needs to start sucking dick or anal or whatever their fetish was. The people in my real life, if they weren't flat out calling me a slut, started treating me like I cheated by using my alleged beauty to get something. So girls always need to be prettier, need to be way more into sex, and if they do any of that, then they're whores. We can't win. It's interesting. I just feel like I'm having some sort of eye opening moment about. To me, what is the crux of misogyny, which is setting women up so they literally can't win.

[A]

Yeah, I get that.

[C]

What's your take on all of it? You being a guy? Like, have you had any interactions with other guys or people about women that even in hindsight, now you're like, oh, that was.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I've had uncomfortable situations where I wish I would have said something, and I didn't.

[C]

I just feel like society tears down women at every other turn. I wrote that thing about breastfeeding Shamers for Cosmo. And, like, the comments on their Facebook page were so upsetting. You know, women, fellow mothers who were just, like, so much hate. I wrote that thing because there was a video, a new mom, which. That's the other thing. It's a mother nursing her brand new baby. And, like, when you're out in the world with your new baby, who is so fragile, you cannot defend yourself. And this disgusting man at a Target started physically threatening her and yelling at her. She's fucking disgusting. She's a whore. And luckily the Target employees all came to her aid. But it made me so sick.

[A]

That's horrible.

[C]

Okay. Anyway, well, now's a good time.

[A]

So I guess we didn't go too deep. I guess the takeaway was just on your. Your mind or.

[C]

I don't know. I think the takeaway is that I wrote an article for Cosmopolitan.

[A]

Link in description.

[B]

I think what's on.

[C]

Going.

[B]

Kind of interesting about that is it was a sort of way of you, like, slipping in that you've been in contact.

[C]

Yeah, I did that pretty.

[B]

Pretty gracefully, slyly.

[C]

You did. I let him know in a very casual way.

[B]

You did.

[A]

Still, I'm completely oblivious now.

[C]

Meanwhile, now knowing that I've been staying up nights, like, it's pretty interesting.

[B]

It is, it is. Wow. Okay, so you have an interaction with her where you basically let her off the hook for feeling, like, stressed out. You thank her for the donation. She has another response that's very benign, but just, like, keeping up the conversation. And then you get an email from a man named Frank.

[A]

Is this the guy that was in the comments that we read before?

[B]

Yeah, got it.

[C]

So Frank had continued in the comments, and it was like, Frank, I think Natasha Anders, a listener named Natasha and.

[B]

Anders are two listeners who are married and they're.

[C]

They're in Norway.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So the comments have continued, and I kept having to kind of mediate. And then Frank ultimately, like, sent me kind of a. Well, I guess we'll hear it.

[B]

Yeah. Andy, do you want to read it?

[A]

Yeah, sure. Okay. Subject is totally Goodbye, Elizabeth. I was a big fan of yours when you guys were just interviewing funny people and I stuck around because I thought I liked your personalities. Then the political correctness snuck in. I didn't love that you don't seem to understand the Second Amendment. And I was real disappointed in you for endorsing Hillary Clinton. Before you go thinking I'm a Trump fan, I don't think he's great, but at least he doesn't belong in prison. Now, this is the ultimate sign that you've gotten too PC for my tastes. Trying to take away my freedom of speech on your site. I know a lot of you ladies didn't like the way I was talking, but you all have to admit I was telling the truth. But now I'm done with your podcast. Maybe you should have thought about that before you censored me and insulted me. One of these days, you'll probably understand everything I've been talking about. Goodbye. You won't hear from me again, Frank.

[C]

Yeah. So, okay, in hindsight, I had deleted Frank's comments. And I think this was after Beth mentioned her suicidal ideations, that I was just like, I don't want anything in our world contributing to anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I started to delete his comments directed at her. And so I got that email.

[B]

Okay, so you're being protective of her at this point. You're like, frank, Frank's gotta go.

[C]

Yeah, Frank's gotta go. No room for that. Yeah.

[B]

For this. For this show.

[C]

I was protecting her from him. And then there were also other listeners who were starting to support her, like, in the comments section. And it seems like she was actually connecting with even beyond the comment section.

[B]

And you still didn't know about any of this?

[A]

Andy wasn't really checking the comments either.

[C]

What were you up to? While I was. I also imagined myself. I'm. I know. I just going back to this time in my life, and I'm thinking about our tiny silver lake bungalow. I'm breastfeeding, my hormones are all over the place, my hair hasn't been washed, and I'm, like, taking to my computer.

[B]

That's actually interesting because maybe if you were like, you're really in it in your life with the kids. Maybe if you were preoccupied or frazzled or on the computer, Andy, you might have just been like, yes. She's, like, in it.

[C]

Yeah, right. Not giving it a second thought and written it off. Meanwhile, I'm dealing with Frank.

[B]

Frank and all these other people who are chiming in as well.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So Beth sends an email to you. Hi, Elizabeth. I probably owe you Some kind of update on where I'm at. I was reminded of this because I spent much of the weekend emailing with another listener of yours, Natasha from Norway, who has been very supportive and kind and she picked up on the fact that I was clearly desperate for people to talk to. Then I felt I had to respond to an exchange going on in your comments section. The things being said about me sometimes don't feel great, but I'm more upset that this issue is even taking up space on your site. It's bad enough that it takes up so much space in my life. Anyway, I wish I had a lot more to update you about. My ex and his family have continued to say really awful things about me. The only explanation I can think of for that is that they're trying to justify the way they kicked me to the curb and yet they act like I owe them the apology. So yeah, a reconciliation isn't really in the cards for us. It really sucks to find out that the man you love and I still do and his family are so embarrassed by you and they'll bring you down to other people every chance they get. I still don't understand this, but I'm resigning myself to the idea that I probably never will. I'm not suicidal anymore, but I'm not exactly feeling ready to take on the world either. My career is stable, but kind of boring. Everything I was really excited about getting married, making a home, starting a family is as far away as it's ever been. I'll be okay, but it's been a rough few weeks. Your listener, Natasha has been trying to convince me to find an outlet to talk about my experiences to others other than a therapist because she sees it as a sign of real hypocrisy in society. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not a writer and the idea of re emphasizing this as the defining issue of my life is just so depressing. I guess it's just wishful thinking at this point, but I really like people to find anything more interesting about me than how I look without clothes. Anyway, I've whined about all this to you before. I don't know when I'll be able to update you again because I honestly don't expect anything to change. But trust me, I'll still be listening and wishing you the very best. Okay.

[C]

Yeah, so that was at 2:30 and I reply at 6:41. Hi Beth, thank you for the update. Yes, I've been thinking of you. Natasha actually emailed me about the ongoing conversation with Frank on the page. I just kind of hopefully capped that convo because I think Frank is a dumb ass hat any. And I'm so glad you aren't suicidal. That's wonderful. And I'm not surprised you were hurting immensely. Though I suspect that is going to be a rough while, but you will get through it. Are you talking to a therapist regularly? Please do. Lastly, that's so awesome that Natasha has reached out. She's very special and has such a big heart. Having said that, take everything with a grain of salt. I wouldn't worry about any other outlets for this, changing the world, et cetera. Not right now.

[A]

Wait, I just. We need to circle back to Natasha, who's mentioned in that email that he said is special and kind hearted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Natasha's sent us an email ages ago that was one of the most memorable emails we ever got. Yeah, that like, I would never describe her as kind hearted.

[C]

Right. Well, yeah. I mean, I also. The same thing I was doing with Beth, I was doing with Natasha. I mean, I was corresponding with her and she would email a lot. Like off the. Off the grid.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But their first. Her first email is insane.

[C]

I don't know. I don't know that I. I think that you remember it as being more insane than I do, but.

[B]

Okay, we're gonna read it now for clarification. This email from Natasha was months earlier. Hello, Elizabeth. I'm a 28 year old dance and yoga instructor, though I use a different name professionally. Originally from Norway, but I've been in the US for six years. I've been a great fan of your various shows for many years now. I've been married to a fine guy for four years. He's actually the one that introduced me to your podcast. I'm kind of bisexual, though I never dated another girl. I've enjoyed fooling around with my fair share. That's finished now that I'm married. Because cheating is cheating, regardless of gender. The other night, my husband and I were drinking wine, playing pool, and discussing our celebrity crushes. After some obvious choices, my husband told me that you, Elizabeth, were one of his biggest crushes. That kind of amazed me because I had to admit that you were one of mine too. You're funny, sweet, and very beautiful. I have a serious thing for you. Sometimes you seem self conscious about your voice, but I think the phrase my husband used to describe your voice was sexy as hell. I agree, as I bet Andy does too. And your recent pregnancy doesn't diminish your sexiness. A good mother is the most beautiful thing in the world. Anyway, I don't mean to creep you out, since this is just me daydreaming, but ever since my husband and I talked about your attractiveness, I. I've had some very interesting fantasies. I don't mean to exclude Andy. He's a very hot guy. And if we weren't all married, oh, man, I should say that I love the podcast. It's your personalities most of all that have us so hooked. And I hope I didn't offend you. Scandinavians can be a little too open about sex for some Americans, but you're beautiful and funny and completely charming. And if I said anything too strange, blame it on my English. I usually get meanings right, but I sometimes say things that have connotations I'm not aware of most of. All. Threesome fantasies aside, congratulations on the safe birth of your son. He's a fitting addition to your beautiful family. I'm so happy for you. Thank you for the podcast. Good luck with everything in the future. Regards, Natasha.

[A]

Okay, so that's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[C]

You're right.

[A]

When we got that email, we told people about Wooten. One, we thought it's hilarious.

[C]

Two, hearing it now, it's a little.

[A]

Creepy, but that's what strikes me is.

[C]

Like, what's so crazy about it that two Norwegians would want to have a threesome with me? Why do you think that's crazy?

[A]

But at what point did she become sweet and kind hearted?

[B]

Well, okay, so that was a Thursday. She sent that first offering. Yes, offering. Then she sends another email a couple days later.

[A]

Natasha.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Whoa. I didn't know that.

[B]

Elizabeth's face.

[A]

I didn't know that. Listen, this is actually, I. To be very clear, Natasha is relevant to this story. I did not know there was an email from that email two days later.

[C]

Oh, well, there's plenty coming. So, like, put your seatbelt on.

[B]

You're just like real time. I love the real time. You're being a real trooper. Okay, so Natasha responds a couple days later. 1:12am Elizabeth, for the first time, I'm very glad that you and I don't know each other. If we did after my last email, I'd be so mortified that I'd have to change my name and move to a foreign country. As it is, I'm just really embarrassed. All I meant to say with that email was that my husband and I are fans of the podcast and that I was amused to find out that we had independently come to the conclusion that you're one sexy lady. Somehow, though, give me some Wine I almost never drink. And what came out was more like an invitation to an orgy or the setup to a soft core porno. I feel like an idiot. I promise I'm not as slutty as I sounded either. I may be bi, but that doesn't mean I'm constantly inviting cute girls to have threesomes. Much to my husband's disappointment. Anyway, I just felt I owed you an apology for such a gross message. We love the podcast and we obviously love you guys too. You have a beautiful family. All the best, Natasha. Now that's Saturday, February 27th at 1:12. Saturday, February 27th, 2. 27 from Elizabeth.

[C]

What? Jesus Christ. Oh, guys, I was breastfeeding. I had a two month old. Yeah, I was nursing.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

Rob also looks scared. I'm so mortified. Maybe I should read it. This one even though you've been reading yours. Natasha, don't you dare apologize. Are you kidding me? Your email made my week. I was so overjoyed and flattered when I read it. I read it to Andy, was beaming the whole time and trust that I needed an email like that this week and not exactly feeling my 100% self these days. Thank you. Thank you for sending. I never took any proposition out of it. I thought it was just a really sweet, funny email saying that I've got crushes out there. Hooray. X.O. elizabeth.

[C]

That's it.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

That's fine.

[C]

The timing of it is tough.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Needless to say, you're getting to know Natasha. So by the time you tell Beth that she is great and has a kind heart, you know her too.

[C]

Yeah, I know Natasha probably better than Beth. And I will say this. Beth I saw as a woman who needed my help, who was in a really tough situation and didn't have support. Natasha I saw as a, like, hardcore fan that I kind of knew to keep a little bit at arm's length. And I think that's why I said to Beth, take what she says with a grain of salt.

[B]

Right?

[C]

She was so active in our comment section. Always. Her husband, Anders, clearly. I felt like our podcast was a part of their marriage. Like they. Yes, Natasha seemed a little bit too into it.

[A]

Super fan.

[C]

Super fan. So while I. I both appreciated having a super fan. I mean, you know, it's kind of. Who doesn't you want him? I also took what she said with a grain of salt.

[B]

Okay, got it.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, great.

[B]

And because Anders is also emailing you starting in March, he's Getting in on the action. You guys are all talking. And so by the time you say that to Beth, you feel comfortable saying that because you've established a relationship with these people.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, so Beth sends an email again about Natasha, saying she's been a very interesting contact. So Beth ends this email by saying, I hope to have an update on this soon, but I've wasted too much of your time already. That was August 4th, 6:22pm On August 6th, you get an email from Anders.

[C]

Yes. Natasha's husband.

[B]

Natasha's husband. Oh, God. I'm so sorry I have to pass on such horrible news, but my wife is too upset to talk right now. And we weren't sure if you'd heard about this. Natasha's been talking regularly to a young woman named Beth, who I understand you've corresponded with as well. The last message Beth sent troubled my wife, so she sent many messages trying to get a response. This morning, we got a reply. Not from Beth, but from her brother. Yesterday, Beth attempted suicide. She was comose for a while. The doctors now seem confident that she'll survive, but not without extreme brain damage that will likely leave her severely handicapped. I can't begin to say how sorry we both are that this happened, but we would have given anything to stop it. Exo. Anders.

[C]

Yeah. So before I even really had time to process that, I got another email from Beth's email account, but it said, this is Beth's brother, Jason.

[B]

Okay. It says, I gather from your message that you're a friend of Beth's. I'm sorry, I don't know many of her friends. I'm extremely sad to say that yesterday, Beth's roommate found her unresponsive in her bed after having apparently attempted suicide. She was rushed to the hospital, where she spent a few hours in a coma. I don't really know what's happening now. I'm rushing home to be with her. But I gather that her doctors are very concerned about the damage this has done to her brain. It's possible that she will never walk or be able to communicate again. Please keep her in your thoughts and prayers, and if you know anything that can shed some light on what happened. We are all completely at a loss right now. Okay. Elizabeth, how are you? How are you feeling?

[C]

It's. It's, like, devastating. I mean, even now, it's really hard hearing it. I mean, you heard what she meant to me and how I kind of became part of the whole journey and also maybe didn't make all the right moves to help her. And it's so sad. And I remember then it hit me so hard and to think like she might not survive. It's yeah and okay. Then there's also I didn't even know the half of what was really going on. And so the next day I get this email from Jason.

[B]

Just after 4am, my amazing sister Beth passed away. We are all completely devastated. My only hope is that she is reunited with her mother. Thank you all for the love and kindness you gave to my sister.

[A]

Today's episode mentions suicide. If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone. And help is available in the U.S. dial 988 where you'll have access to free one on one counselors who are there to provide compassion, passionate support. Beth's Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman and Nobody's Listening Right. It is produced by Monica Padman, Elizabeth Lame and Andy Rosen. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music by Andy Rosen. If you don't want to wait for more Beth's Dead, you can binge the entire series today at patreon.com bethsdead where all 10 episodes are available and free right Right now. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.

[B]

You love the host.

[A]

You seek it out and download it.

[C]

You listen to it while driving, working.

[B]

Out, cooking, even going to the bathroom.

[A]

Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

[B]

And this is a podcast ad.

[C]

Did I get your attention?

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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