EP5 - The Questions Keep Multiplying

Summary

Beth's Dead Episode 5 Summary

"The Questions Keep Multiplying"

Release Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Monica Padman, Elizabeth Laime, Andy Rosen

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the unraveling of the true identity behind "Beth"—a seemingly supportive listener who turned out to be the alter ego of an obsessed male in his 60s. The hosts, Monica, Elizabeth, and Andy, follow the intricate breadcrumbs left by this individual, revealing the sinister mechanics behind the catfishing, harassment, and boundary-breaking behavior that forced them to end their podcasting ventures. Through new evidence, expert sleuthing, and raw emotional reflection, the episode explores critical themes: parasocial relationships, manipulation, personal violation, and the ethical dilemmas involved in sharing this story publicly.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Piecing Together the Mystery

• Recap: The previous episode ended with the shocking revelation that "Beth" was actually a male East Coast professor in his 60s.
• Elizabeth: “Let's not get carried away.” (03:11) — humorously reacting to Monica's "hot" joke about the professor.
• Discovery Process: The hosts break down how bits of panic and sloppiness in the catfish’s correspondence led to his discovery.
  • Slips in emails, Twitter, and website comments exposed the same person behind various aliases.
  • The team’s web expert, Andrea, checked real estate records linked to Beth's PayPal, leading to a family but narrowing suspects using digital forensics.

2. Digital Breadcrumbs and Psychological Tells

• Email Pattern Clue: Double spaces after periods in the catfish’s emails, described as an "old school typing style," implied an older individual. (05:00)
  • Andrea (host, reading): “All the emails so far have double spaces after periods… this is unusual and old school. HTML tends to strip double spaces…” (04:46)
• Writer’s Perspective: Tammy, a friend and professional writer, intuits the gender and psychology behind the emails.
  • Tammy: “You could feel with somebody… who has his own issues, his own obsessions. You could feel him poking the bear... (06:09)”
  • Identifies elements in the messages that hint at a repressed, possibly obsessive male fixation.

3. The Smoking Gun

• Evidence Slip-up: An email from “Natasha” mistakenly references the same IP address used for other aliases, mentioning upcoming travel to Europe. The real person was known to be traveling to the same destination for a public event.
  • Andrea: “He was speaking at a specific event that was publicized… the IP address matched with the city where he was speaking.” (11:00–11:20)
• Confirmation: The team uses a combination of digital forensics and public records to conclusively identify the catfisher as the professor.

4. Emotional & Psychological Impact

• Email Harassment: Elizabeth reads harrowing examples of emotionally manipulative emails meant to guilt and control her, leveraging her history of personal grief.
  • Elizabeth (reading email): “I sincerely hope that thought haunts you to your grave.” (13:34)
  • Elizabeth’s reaction: “For this person to have… triggered a grief response in me was so calculated, and I'm just gonna say kind of cruel.” (14:36)

5. Parasocial Relationships: When the Line Blurs

• Monica: Explains the parasocial phenomenon—”one-sided, imaginary relationships we form with celebrities and fictional characters,” which the perpetrator aggressively exploited. (15:30)
• Boundary Crossing: Unlike true parasocial relationships which are non-reciprocal, the catfisher manipulated podcast hosts into engaging, making the relationship reciprocal against their will.
• The team acknowledges how the intimacy of podcasting can leave creators vulnerable.

6. Motives, Manipulation & Escalation

• Perpetrator’s Motivation: The group discusses power dynamics, the potential thrill of manipulation, and questions whether the perpetrator had an “end game” or simply escalated as opportunities arose.
  • Andy: “I think they really came to enjoy the power of it... they were like the silent producer of our show.” (19:02–19:36)
• Sinister Manipulation: The emails grow more desperate, varied in emotional tone, and elaborate in the fictional world-building around “Beth” and her associates (Natasha, Anders, Frank).

7. Law Enforcement & Seeking Help

• After consulting security professionals, Elizabeth is advised by the LAPD Cyber Crimes Division to avoid responding, as any response would fuel the harasser's need for control.
  • Detective’s advice (via Andrea): “Just ignore everything and act as though I have completely moved on, because this is all about manipulation and control.” (30:20)
• Police Intervention: A detective contacts the perpetrator directly, resulting in all harassment immediately ceasing.
  • Elizabeth details: "The call was successful in that his emails and the harassment totally stopped at that moment in time." (45:34)

8. Ethical Dilemmas and Retelling the Story

• The group discusses whether sharing this story on a large podcast platform inadvertently gives the perpetrator the twisted recognition he sought.
  • Monica: “Are we giving a platform to someone we shouldn't be giving a platform to?” (41:05)
  • The solution: all real names will be changed, for both ethical and personal safety reasons.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Digital Tell:
  Andrea reading her email — 04:46

  “All the emails so far have double spaces after periods. This is an unusual and old school typing style suggestive of an older user.”

• On the Emotional Toll:
  Elizabeth — 14:36

  “For this person to have built a relationship and then caused this death, triggering a grief response in me was, like, so calculated, and I'm just gonna say kind of cruel like it is, you know?”

• On Power & Manipulation:
  Andy — 19:02

  "I think that that is what was the biggest thing to them and that we see that in them wanting to have the comments put back on the site and just the amount of, like, puppeteering... They were like the silent producer of our show."

• On Feeling Vulnerable:
  Elizabeth — 27:20

  “I'm a relatively intelligent person... and I got so duped, not only by Beth, but by Natasha, by Anders, by Frank. You know, the list goes on.”

• On Ethics:
  Monica — 41:05

  “Are we giving a platform to someone we shouldn't be giving a platform to?”

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Key Timestamps

• Recap & Identification of Beth – 03:02–05:44
• Digital Evidence and Writer’s Analysis – 04:46–06:09
• The IP Address Smoking Gun – 07:42–11:20
• Reading Manipulative Emails – 13:24–14:52
• Discussion on Parasocial Relationships – 15:30–17:00
• Theories about the Perpetrator’s Motives – 18:28–19:36
• The “Apartment Complex” Fictional World – 24:09–29:44
• Email Escalation & Law Enforcement Involvement – 30:20–32:09; 45:34–45:52
• Ethical Discussion & Name Changing – 41:05–44:15

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Tone & Reflections

The episode maintains a raw, vulnerable, and often darkly humorous tone as the hosts oscillate between horror, disbelief, self-doubt, and the camaraderie that comes from collective trauma. Their willingness to openly confront embarrassment and fear is balanced with thoughtful insights about the dangers of online relationships and the hidden risks of podcast intimacy.

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For New Listeners

If you haven’t followed the story so far, this episode is a pivotal breakdown of how an everyday digital relationship devolved into manipulation and harassment—and how digital sleuthing, teamwork, and emotional support were crucial for the hosts’ safety and sanity. The narrative is dramatic, introspective, and relevant to anyone creating or consuming online media.

Stay tuned for the next episode, which promises to delve deeper into the perpetrator’s spiritual claims and the enduring consequences of this bizarre and unsettling relationship.

Transcript

[A]

A Mochi moment from Sadie who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one.

[B]

He understood and I felt supported, not judged.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Welcome to episode five of Beth's Dead. I'm Monica Padman and as usual I'm here with Elizabeth Lame and Andy Rosen. Hello.

[D]

Hey.

[B]

Okay, so at the end of last episode. Yeah, we sort of. You guys left us on a doozy that you know who this person is who Was Beth and others.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it was in fact a, as you said, male east coast professor in his 60s. Hot.

[A]

Well, let's not get carried away.

[B]

Well, yeah, no, he was a predator and he was behind this. So I think maybe we should walk through how you guys figured this out for sure.

[D]

I mean, it's, it's crazy because the guy kind of like unbeknownst to him.

[A]

Led us to him because he sloppily gives away information in his panic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there were emails, comments on the website, and also a Twitter account as Beth's brother, specifically to tweet at me with frantic tweets.

[B]

Oh my God.

[D]

And the messages are all coming from not only different places, but all these different people too. Yeah, like they're spiraling.

[A]

And in the meantime, Andrea, our web person, had wisely looked up the real estate records of the address connected to Beth's PayPal.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

And to our surprise, you know, it's a family.

[D]

It's creepy.

[B]

Yeah. So creepy. That is not what you expect.

[A]

Yeah, I of course assumed it was some like incel. In a basement somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, very cliche, very classic.

[D]

Which also would have been really creepy. But there was something about the family that had this other tin. I don't even know how to explain it, but we were like not expecting that. And like who in that family could do that?

[A]

Yeah. So then Andrea pointed something else out which I think you have an email, Monica. There was a pattern in this person's comments.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, let me read this email from Andrea. It says, I will say all the emails so far have double spaces after periods. This is an unusual and old school typing style suggestive of an older user. HTML tends to strip double spaces after periods, converting them to single spaces, which is why it wouldn't show up in the comments on your site or on Facebook or.

[A]

Whoa.

[D]

Yeah, so she catches that. The difference.

[B]

And yeah, so it's someone older.

[A]

And then Tammy. Yes.

[D]

Our good friend who was holding your hand a little bit at this point, more emotionally, I would say.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But she had like a really great take on everything, which we have a clip because we interviewed her about this to see like what she remembered. And let's play that because it's kind of crazy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

It was so creepy. I could tell it was a guy because of how he wrote the girl.

[A]

But this is where I'm like, your skills as a writer in a study of like human behavior is so valuable because I didn't obviously pick up on that. But you. I think looking at those Emails or hearing it on the podcast had a little bit of a red flag about. They were through this lens of like this misogynistic guy.

[E]

I wouldn't even say misogynistic. I would say. And this might. I don't even know if it's the writer me, or if it's the part of me that really does go like full fan to a way that can be weird. And like, not that I've written these emails, but I can also feel, do you know what I mean, where it's a part of me is like, oh, I can see the tipping point. So even the fact that her name was Beth, I forgot that. And I was like, jesus, the fixation on you. Because it's also like as a listener, the clarity of your voice, like literal, physical clarity. And that there's something very pure about it and very wholesome about the voice. And also there's something very pure about your guys relationship, you know, and so even when you do very naturally, like it sounds like get dirty or whatever, just get real like that there. There's a little something like you could feel with somebody who's got something repressed, who has his own issues, who has his own obsessions. You could feel him poking the bear, if that makes sense.

[B]

Okay, so between Tammy and Andrea.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We now know it is a older person, a man. So an older man who uses double spaces.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, very specific. Which didn't. It narrowed it down to one person in the house, but obviously we couldn't be like a hundred percent sure.

[D]

But then we get a smoking gun. So there's an email that comes from Natasha, one of the characters that he's playing, and he slips up and reveals a big clue. So I think we have that. Do you see that email, Monica?

[B]

I do. I'm gonna read it. Okay. Another email from Natasha. Subject. What is happening, Elizabeth?

[A]

I'd love to know.

[B]

I just visited your site. As confused as I am about all of Maya and Anders comments being removed, I am honestly a bit hurt that you seem to have removed all of Beth's as well. That feels disrespectful. Is it that you just want us to stop messaging you about Beth'? We can do that. We just wanted to make sure you knew. Is this about some IP address? Shit, I didn't know that Bethana shared an IP address until I looked into it.

[A]

Yes, here it is.

[B]

This is where.

[D]

This is where our web person really cracks the code.

[A]

Don't we have Andrea kind of explaining that to us when we talked to her recently?

[D]

Yes, yes, I have that.

[A]

So, Andrea.

[F]

Yes.

[A]

You are our digital guru. Will you just walk us through your experience of this story?

[F]

Sure. I'll say I went through my notes this morning and I was getting teary eyed how upsetting it was. It was very manipulative. This person, this catfish. And had to me all of those red flags of like, abuse, scam, like the urgency that this person created with you. So I have the specifics of these horrible messages that you were getting via email.

[D]

I also want to make sure, Andrea, if you can speak to. I think a really big turning point was the big piece of evidence that we were even able to share with the authorities that really was like, this is the guy.

[F]

Totally. So once the real person knew that you were suspicious. I have an email from Natasha to you, Elizabeth, and it says, is this about some IP address Shit. I didn't know that Beth and us shared an IP address until I looked into it, trying to figure this out. I'm not surprised. Beth lives in the apartment next door. We agreed to fib about not knowing each other so that we could all talk a little more freely. Beth has had very scary experiences with stalkers. And they mentioned, like, having barbecues and listening to Totally Married Together. But once you were onto him with the IP addresses he writes from either Natasha or Anderson, if you want us to prove something, we're going to Europe tomorrow. I can send you messages from there. But of course, the real person was traveling to Europe within the next couple days of that message. He was speaking at a specific event that was publicized.

[A]

Yes. And I remember you sending me his Facebook, like his professional Facebook page. That's like he is speaking at this event, right? Yeah.

[D]

That's sealed it, like done. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so the IP address matched with the city where he was speaking.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So then after that, there was another location tag that happened with him, so we knew for sure it was him. I was shocked to realize that he has a not only a full time job, they have a career that warrants speaking all over the world. This person has a fully formed life. Quite an impressive slate of things. And the sheer volume of emails and messages and comments we had received and. And then also the sheer volume of messages, emails to come at me in the next little bit here until we finally found a way to stop. This was shocking.

[D]

Like, that was another shift of like, oh, like, now we know who it is. Which in some ways made it way creepier.

[A]

I will say I was relieved that he does have a life and he has things at stake. And he's traveling. I mean, my main concern is, is this person gonna come into a flesh dress?

[B]

I don't know. So I'm gonna read a couple of the emails that you were getting harassed with. A ton of emails that you guys were not responding to. You were just letting them sort of flow in. Coming from Beth's email, Elizabeth, right now, I'm just furious at the unfairness of Beth's death. It's hitting me so hard that I actually regret bringing my son into this world. Of all the responses to my sister's death, yours has stuck with me. I don't know what involvement Beth had with your podcast or site. I don't care. All I know is that she thought highly enough of you to you an amount of money, I promise, she never spent on herself. And now you seemingly don't give a damn that she's dead. If there's a reason on this end that you're not responding, it probably could have been cleared up with a single phone call or email. You couldn't be bothered. If there's a reason on your end that you're actively ignoring these messages, it had better be a damn good one. I don't want any more contact with you. I just want you to keep in mind that a young woman reached out to you at her most vulnerable and depressed. She thought so highly of you, and now you're completely ignoring her death. If you don't have a damn good excuse, I sincerely hope that thought haunts you to your grave.

[D]

Ugh.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Whoa. Evil.

[D]

Yeah, that one makes me, like, so angry.

[A]

This just, like, triggered something in me, because I will say, the three of us, like, recording all these episodes, listening to the Beth emails, maybe sometimes we seemed insensitive if we were, like, giggling a little bit, but it is kind of humorous looking back on it and being like, this is so outrageous. But what maybe people listening to this don't know is that I already shared this. My parents had died when I was younger. Grief is really traumatizing to me. And for this person to have built a relationship and then caused this death, triggering a grief response in me was, like, so calculated, and I'm just gonna say kind of cruel like it is, you know? And then to harp on that through these incoming emails, using it as, like.

[B]

Leverage to get you, because this person knows you. They know you, and so they know what? Like, in a relationship, when that person knows what to say to hurt you the most in a bizarre way? Yeah, this person was doing that.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, do you think this affected like the family. Like, were you guys like. I mean, not, not. But the whole energy of the house, I'm sure was just so.

[A]

You were tense. I didn't sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I contemplated us going to stay in a hotel. I was. You know, we're just little podcasters, you know, we're living in a tiny little house with no fence or it would be so easy to access us at the time. Now we're in a fortress. I'm just kidding. But yeah, so it definitely messed with the vibes for sure.

[B]

It's scary. I understand parasocial relationships, which are the one sided, imaginary relationships we form with celebrities and fictional characters by consuming media about them. I understand them. I had them with you guys.

[D]

No, but the difference is he was.

[B]

Getting something actually back from you because of the emails.

[D]

The emails, Comments, talking on the show. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So the parasocial relationship is completely in your head. I mean, it is imaginary. You feel like you know the person only based on what you're consuming, but you don't have contact. But that. Yes. I think many people can relate. Especially now with so many podcasts, which is such an intimate medium. Social media, where you, you know what people ate yesterday.

[D]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the ability to form these relationships is so easy. It's scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is at the heart of this whole thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And I. I guess I was just saying in some ways I get it. I get how from their point of view, not in this extreme, you feel violated when you find out you've been like lied to by these people. Which is also funny because it's almost a two way street of trust. Like they think they know you and they want to be a part of your life. In some ways, when we're upset that they've lied, we're engaging in that same relationship of how. How could someone lie to us? If it was a stranger off the street, I wouldn't give a shit if someone lied. But this is like a fan or a person who.

[A]

Right. It works about us. That's what ultimately happened was this person. I mean, what I was upset about was having been manipulated in such kind of space. Specific to me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Ways also, like I was. I looked at porn. There was like a sexual element to it. And when we get to the Natasha Anders thing, that kind of plays out more.

[D]

And in this person's motive, I think I feel like we can all sort of agree they didn't want to be caught, that they had had this relationship with you, that you didn't know the nature of it. Right. There are different characters going back and forth. This could have gone on for years and years. Right. That's what's so crazy and creepy about it. Had we not uncovered the truth, had it not all fallen apart, we don't know. You may have never known this, which is what's so absurd. It's so much more sinister because of the amount that had already been done, like, the sheer level of time.

[A]

Also, what was his end game?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I feel there's also an element of wanting a. Wanting to some of the spotlight.

[E]

Sure.

[A]

Right. Like, now's my moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's another thing I would like to know without asking this person, was this calculated from the beginning or was it a slippery slope and he just rode the twists and turns as they came?

[B]

And was he himself surprised by where it was or was he thrilled by where it was?

[A]

He's like this idiot. Oh, my God, she's so frightened.

[D]

Again, I like to believe, or I believe, that they really came to enjoy the power of it. I think that that is what was the biggest thing to them and that we see that in them wanting to have the comments put back on the site and just the amount of, like, puppeteering that they were doing of you behind the scenes and also in the public of getting their questions answered on our show. I think they felt that they had so much power. They were like the silent producer of our show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And maybe, again, we don't know about this person's life. I mean, we know some things, but maybe he feels so out of control in his life that this was, like, the strand. This was the piece that he felt he could have some control over, which is why he spent so much energy and time and isn't there, like, there's.

[D]

Also this, like, potential weird, disappointing world where he's just like. I don't know, it's, like, kind of fun.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Like, doesn't.

[D]

I really think that could be. Or on the complete opposite spectrum or. No, we're talking, like, crazy multiple personality, whatever. But there is this other world.

[B]

Like.

[D]

Yeah. I don't know. I just like doing it.

[A]

No, I think he loves. That would be honestly the most upsetting version. I want him to at least care.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Will you? I think that's a good. And I want him to find me attractive. So what will you keep reading? Because I think that the upcoming emails might put that idea to bed.

[B]

Okay. The subject is. This really hurts. Elizabeth, I thought I was done speaking with you, but Natasha, Beth's neighbor and friend. Beth's neighbor now adjusted to like, oh yeah, I said that.

[A]

Now she's in 4C. Beth was in 5A. Oh my God.

[B]

Friend formerly, I guess, just told me that you'd removed all of Beth's comments from your site. As her brother, I can't express how much that hurts me. I haven't even read them. But those comments were some of my sister's last contributions to this world. I started crying when Natasha told me you'd erase them them. That just doesn't seem right. If there's a reason for all of your actions, please just tell me. I'm sorry that my last message was so angry. Beth's passing has really destroyed me.

[D]

Yeah. Quite a different tune from his previous message. Now he's worried about the comments on the website.

[B]

He's trying different tactics for sure. P.S. from Natasha. Elizabeth, if. If you're the good person I think you are, oh my God. They're doing everything they can. If you're the good person I think you are, you need to deal with Bass brothers. Just for his sake, please contact him somehow. He is clearly going out of his mind at the thought that his sister, who clearly loved you, is having some of her last words deleted. I admit I'd have the same reaction. Please. She ends a lot of these with please, exclamation point.

[A]

And also all baiting me to call this number.

[B]

Did either of you ever call the number?

[D]

No, we didn't, but somebody else does later.

[B]

Support for Beth's dead comes from growth therapy. Everyone here on Beth's Elizabeth, Andy and I all are huge proponents of therapy, as Beth said. Started with me asking you, Elizabeth, for a therapist. Yes, and it's so important. I personally have gained so much from my therapist and having therapy in my life. I'm such a. I'm almost an annoying pusher of having a third party person there to just aid in whatever you're dealing with, whether it's big or small.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. I think having a therapist can help you through so many life stages that everyone goes through different things, whether it's grief, burnout, relationship stress. Andy and I go to a couples therapist and we love therapy. We especially love therapy that's accessible.

[B]

Absolutely. The world is very complicated and we're juggling so much stuff and I think it's very, very important. Have therapy in your life. So whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. They connect you with thousands of independent, licensed therapists across the US Offering both virtual and in person sessions, which is amazing. You could do nights, weekends. They fit around your schedule, which is perfect. There's no subscriptions, no long term commitments. You just pay per session so you're not stuck in anything. Grow helps you find therapy on your time.

[D]

Whatever challenges you're facing, Growth therapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com Beth today to get started. That's growtherapy.com Beth growtherapy.com Beth availability and.

[A]

Coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[B]

Okay, so now he has his characters living together in an apartment complex, Melrose Place. Oh my gosh, he's really working hard here. And Natasha's emails become rapid fire and like crazy.

[A]

Yes. Now all of a sudden, she's hanging out with best brother Jason. All the time they're piling it up.

[B]

Oh, my God. My. Okay, I'm going to read a couple of Natasha's emails at this point that have gotten a little unhinged.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Elizabeth sitting down and talking with Beth's brother Jason, who was a complete wreck. He told us that Beth donated $1,000 to you just because she liked you. Is that true? I would say that if you don't think my late friend's comments are worthy of your sight, you owe it to her to give that money back. But you can't because Beth is dead. Please fix this. Five of these are from the same day.

[D]

What if, like the day before this drops, we send him $1,000 to that PayPal address? Well, we can't with just a winky emoji.

[A]

We can't because it comes from. I'm very grateful. I mean, not that you couldn't have found where we lived before, but like, when you send it's linked to an address. And at the time I had written to Beth and said, was this a typo? I can send you back $900 if you only meant 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was like, no. And thank God, because I would have just served up our address on a silver platter.

[B]

My God.

[A]

So for that I am grateful.

[B]

We're also grateful for the thousand dollars.

[A]

Yes. Let's be honest, we did need it.

[B]

Natasha, if this is reaching an intern instead of Elizabeth, my friend gave her literally $1,000 and I'm the only one who's still looking out for her. If you have any conscience at all, you could at least get Elizabet read my messages. And you didn't feel the impulse to say, we know what's going on. We know who you are. Stop.

[D]

No, we had those fantasies for sure.

[A]

I mean, I almost called that number because I just wanted to be like, where is this going?

[B]

Is that also. Did you guys feel. And I don't think you should feel this way, but I could see myself feeling duped and embarrassed and, like, how could I possibly. Like, I'm dumb.

[A]

Well, Monica, listen. You mean I'm dumb. But Andy and I, on the drive home from our last recording, I was like, I'm a little worried that I'm just coming across as the world's biggest idiot, because. And I know when we go back through the Natasha emails, that's gonna become even more apparent. And also, like, my ego is stroked, and this whole thing is a little bit humiliating. But I also think it goes to show how, you know, I'm a relatively intelligent person. I work and stuff. I'm. I'm functioning and contribute to society.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And I got so duped, not only by Beth, but by Natasha, by Anders, by Frank. You know, the list goes on.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah. My takeaway trying to console you after the last recording was diving into these emails in that. And I think I mentioned this before, I am in awe, sort of, of the craft of some of them. So. Yeah, I don't think so. I think there's probably a few outlier emails that in hindsight, will look ridiculous.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But for the most part, it's, like, pretty crazy.

[B]

I hope that this podcast shows it could be anyone. It could have been any of us. Okay, getting back into these emails. This one's from Natasha.

[D]

Yeah. This one's. This one's insane.

[B]

I just noticed that in addition to Beth's, Anders and my comments being removed from your site, that, quote Asshat Franks were as well. This puzzled me, since I thought you were making some mistakes based on the fact that we shared a network. But. But if that theory is correct, is Frank actually named Francisco? What?

[A]

She's trying to now justify the fact that Frank shares a knife with them.

[B]

I see. But if that theory is correct, is Frank actually named Francisco? We have a group of people in our apartment who have listened to Totally Married Together a few times while we barbecue.

[A]

What? What a wonderful apartment complex for our podcast.

[B]

I know. It's the. It's like the mothership. Oh, my God. Francisco is an older man who has attended perhaps twice. If you are making a mistake involving a shared IP address, I assume that Francisco would share it as well, since he is in our building too. I can Imagine him making Frank's comments. Sad as it is to think that if this is what is happening, it is truly sad. I've been recommending your podcast to many of the couples in our building, and if they're listening and commenting have negatively affected Beth's case in some way. It is so incredibly unjust. I'm getting the feeling that you just don't care what the truth is, but I have to stand up for Beth. I don't know what you talked about together, so perhaps she said something offensive or untrue, but I know she clearly felt a lot of love for you, Elizabeth. And I'm not saying that a thousand dollars should buy your friendship, but it should be enough for you to give these messages a chance.

[D]

This is the part where I'm disappointed in him. You know, like the barbecue. Francisco, how dumb do you think we, like? You put in a year and a half of all the good stuff, and you're gonna let it all go down the drain with these moves.

[B]

Do better, do better, do better. Okay.

[A]

But the insanity does not even stop there. There are many more emails.

[B]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. Well, I think let's jump ahead to an email, actually, that you sent Elizabeth to Andrea about really how to make this all go away.

[A]

What does it say?

[B]

So the update is that my friend's security person said that I absolutely need to file a police report. So I'm in the process. And the detective said that under no circumstances should I respond to anything, just to ignore everything and act as though I have completely moved on, because this is all about manipulation and control. And even if I respond negatively, that's what he craves, probably. Especially. He just wants to know that he has disrupted my life. I'm so glad we haven't been responding, responding.

[A]

Yeah. So we have some dear friends who have a special security person.

[D]

Right. And they put us in touch with the LAPD Department of Cyber Crimes.

[A]

There was enough content to warrant it being a. Harassment.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah, there was. There were a couple threats that the detective pointed out in an email that that was enough. I remember how he phrased it was like, listen, I have enough to get the local PD involved and legitimately, like, get a warrant and seize computers and stuff. And Elizabeth expressed like, that makes us a little uncomfortable. We don't want to do that. He said, from my experience, usually in these cases, people don't show up physically because we are so afraid that this person's gonna knock, knock at the door.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But he's like, if you don't want to Press charges. Do I have your blessing to call him? And basically told us, like, I'll scare the shit out of him.

[A]

And so at the time, I was like, I do not want to ruin this person's life. I've already ruined their work. No, just kidding. But truly, I just want him to stop. And my hope would be this sort of intervention from a detective would make him stop this and any future inclinations he had to do this sort of thing to people.

[B]

Because we don't know. We don't know if you're the only. We want you to be the only one, but we don't know.

[A]

Well, now, having done more research into this person. Yeah, I would bet that we were not the only ones. And we are not the only ones.

[D]

But you were his golden goose.

[A]

I hope so. I'd like to think I'm up there.

[B]

We don't want to take that from you.

[A]

No. No.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's hop back in. Let's hear a couple more emails that are showing just how much he is spiraling. Okay.

[A]

They get wild.

[B]

Last attempt.

[D]

Who's this from?

[B]

All caps, please. If you have any sense of decency, you will give this message to Elizabeth. It concerns my friend who gave her a huge amount of money. And it will be my last message to her. The least she could do is read it. Elizabeth, I am so frustrated and sad. The lack of response to Beth's death can only mean two things. One, that you just don't give a shit that this girl you've corresponded with is dead. Or two, that you think some part of the story is untrue. I think highly enough of you to assume that it's not the first option. I don't know what would make you distrustful of our little group, me, Anders and Beth. Beyond the fact that I just go beyond the fact that I didn't mention that Beth and I knew each other already and live next door. But I thought Beth would mention that if she were comfortable she knew other people in our apartment. Listened to Totally Married because I got them to. So specifying that she's a former model living next to a Norwegian couple would probably be saying too much if other people in our apartment building were commenting as well. It's news to me, but we would all be on the same network. I can't verify everything Beth talked to you about because I don't know what she said. Knowing her, if she said anything untrue, it was because of her extreme paranoia. This is what I know with 100% certainty that my friend Beth Was the former model she described in her first message to you that she not only respected you, but felt a deep love and appreciation for you. That she gave you a thousand dollars she didn't owe you, that she was engaged and then dumped by her fiance. She died at the age of 25. These things are all true. I swear on my life and the lives of my unborn children. If you still don't believe that, think about these things for a second. What did Beth have to gain by giving you any money, let alone so much? What did I have to gain months ago when I introduced myself to you by saying I had a crush on you? Great question. What did I have to gain by trying to explain my spiritual beliefs to you? Okay. Also just jumping out really quick from the email. We're gonna really get into that next week. The spiritual beliefs element of all this. Because it is very relevant.

[A]

Yeah. Yes, it is.

[B]

Okay, so back to the email. Why would Beth's brother literally beg you to just call him? And what could he possibly be asking about if he weren't asking about Beth? Why would any of us make comments on your site and write you emails if we weren't who we said and didn't believe what we claimed?

[A]

I'm dying to know.

[B]

I know your actions suggest that you not only doubt everything I'm saying, but that you're certain that these are all lies. The thousand dollars alone should at least give you pause. What kind of liar gives away $1,000 to a stranger? This is the last time I'll try to convince you of anything. Beth's gone, so she doesn't give a shit if you slander her or believes lies about her. Her brother was only ever seeking you out to figure out what happened to his sister. He's now too busy laying her to rest to care about you. I'm the only one who still cares for you and how you feel about me and Beth. But you evidently don't trust me at all. You didn't even bother asking me to explain something or answer a question. I don't know. I'll. I don't know why I would seek the trust of someone who's evidently so quick to believe shitty things about me. So I'm giving up. Beth's life was a succession of people she trusted making quick, ill informed judgments about her and abandoning her. I suppose I'm glad that she isn't here to feel that you had done the very same thing. Neither I nor Anders will ever write you again unsolicited or try to comment on Your site. Feel free not to believe this message, but if you completely ignore it, I will have to admit that you're not the person I thought you were. I'm incredibly saddened by whatever has happened here, but I've done everything I can.

[D]

Now, did they stay to their word, or did they follow up, trying again?

[B]

This is from Anders.

[D]

Okay. New angle, same building, same barbecue. Person partner of Natasha. Just to remind everybody.

[B]

I know that Natasha promised we wouldn't write again, but much as I love my wife, she doesn't get to make promises on my behalf. I'm writing from London. Check the IP address if you think we're liars. Just to say that my wife is hurting terribly for multiple reasons, and whatever is happening with Totally Lame is adding insult to injury. Somewhere, somebody made a mistake. Oh, my God. I don't know what you think has happened, so I can't really address it. I think my wife has gone into the details of what she thinks the problem might be. Our neighbors. Also, listening to your podcast and being on the same network, I just want to say that Natasha has tried to contribute so much to you, Elizabeth, both on the site and in correspondence. I know because I had to translate so much of it, exclamation point. She didn't do it for your show or to gain anything from you. My wife did that because she honestly cares about you guys and the issues your podcast addresses. For her to be cut out with no explanation is crushing her. I hate to be rude, but it's completely against the messages of Totally Married. There's a problem, and you've stopped communicating entirely. Please. I know we've asked this a hundred times by now, but it's such a simple request. Please communicate with us at least once. We're in the process of moving back to Norway, but I didn't think we'd be losing all contact with you, Elizabeth. I'm a huge fan of you guys, but my wife and Beth, I think, actually really loves you as a person. I'm sure she sees you as some kind of kindred spirit. With all the things going on for us right now. Moving, pregnancy, a funeral for a friend seeming to have lost your friendship is destroying my wife. As I think Beth's brother asked, could you at least have the courtesy to tell us to go fuck ourselves if that's how you feel? Please. This just isn't right. And though I don't care what you think of me, I can't sit idle while I watch my wife suffering and wondering how we offended you guys.

[A]

I didn't know they were pregnant. That was just news to me.

[B]

Oh, my God. For a second I was like, oh, my God. They were totally forgotten. Oh, my God. Okay, my last message.

[D]

Who's this from?

[B]

Anders again. Elizabeth and company.

[A]

Finally.

[D]

Is this maybe a shout out? Because I feel like I haven't. This person never mentions my name. They're asking about an intern. Isn't it possible I'm fielding the emails? Couldn't someone try my email address? I'm easy to find. Like, come on.

[B]

I know. So rude is offensive. Well, he obviously was in love with Elizabeth. I mean, that's. Yeah.

[A]

Or he thought you would. You wouldn't get duped so easily.

[B]

Well, yeah. These are the questions, right? Okay, my last message from Anders, Elizabeth and co. I'm writing to you from Oslo, where my wife and I are in the process of moving again. Check the goddamn IP address if you don't believe we are who we say. This will be my last message to you. Natasha and I have tried every method to explain ourselves. I could even send you our passports and a photo of Beth and corpse in her casket. And at this point, I don't think it would do any good.

[D]

Show us the body.

[B]

Oh, my God. I would like to make one humble and desperate request, though. Is there some way that Beth's comments on your site could be preserved?

[A]

Wow.

[D]

Whoa.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I don't mean that you have to post them, though. That would be nice. I mean that these comments are some of Beth's last contributions to the world, simple as they are. You may not believe that, but please, if there's even the tiniest chance I'm telling the truth, you must admit that it's wrong to destroy them. Please give me some way to copy them or send them to Beth's brother. That is all I will ever ask of you again. My wife is still hoping that you will contact her, that she can fix anything that's bothering you, and that you can go back to being friendly acquaintances. I know that will never happen. Sadly, I introduced her to your podcast, which she loved. She is hurting so much now, though, that I'm really regretting it. I'm going to do you a courtesy that I wish you had given my wife. I will say goodbye. We really do wish you the best.

[D]

You know what's crazy? Like, hearing again how important the comments are to him. He has all the emails, right? So I'm envisioning him like he has, like a file. Literally, he's printed out all these. He does have the book and he's.

[A]

Got what Monica's holding right there.

[D]

And what's missing for him is these comments. For him to literally go back fondly and look at, like, it's really wild how important that is to him.

[B]

Creepy.

[A]

Just had a thought. He might fucking love that we're doing this podcast.

[B]

I mean, this does bring up an ethical question that we haven't really talked about yet, which is, are we giving a platform to someone we shouldn't be giving a platform to?

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

This is a big question.

[A]

I know. It's. It's. It's a head scratcher.

[B]

Is it ethical what we're doing?

[A]

Yeah, because, like, he was writing this whole story and now it's getting published by, like, a major.

[B]

A major outlet.

[D]

I don't know if it's an ethical dilemma, though, really, because it's our story to tell. He fucked with us.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. But it's. It's almost like, is it everything he ever wanted to have this spotlight that.

[D]

We are now, then we're just being nice? You know, that's one of the bad ethical.

[A]

But it's the reverse consequences. I mean, listen to how much he wanted to have this, you know, full tomb of his work, and now we're putting it out there. It's like, oh, not only are there no consequences for any of this, but also, here's all of your dreams and hopes coming true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That is weird.

[B]

Well, I mean, it's like, not to take it here, but this is part of it. You know, the big conversation about if there's a mass shooting or something, is it ethical or good to name the person or how much should it be talked about? Because that's what they wanted.

[A]

Right. Well, the fear is always that that has then inspired other people to go do the same things. Because the need for fame and attention is so strong in this case. I challenge anyone else to try to. Not to us, not to anyone.

[B]

It just.

[A]

This seems like a very unique individual. But maybe I'm wrong.

[B]

Maybe you're right. I think this happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I guess we're going to just keep doing it.

[A]

I know. I feel like I'm not going to worry about that. To Andy's point, if this is a little cherry on top for him, then I guess so be it.

[B]

Good for him. So maybe to sort of COVID our ethical bases or at least so I. I feel like justice is served. We. We make sure we change all the names in this podcast.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So we're not giving credit.

[D]

I want to do that for Our safety almost sort of like I have other motives for that than the ethics of it.

[B]

Yeah, I get. Yeah.

[A]

Lots of reasons to do that.

[D]

Like, how do you feel about that?

[A]

I think that's really important and smart.

[B]

Honestly, ethics on all sides, really. Because also, what if we're wrong? I mean, I don't think we're wrong about who this is, but, you know, I don't know. What if we are? So I think names should be changed.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

[B]

What are we doing, guys? Well, what are we even doing making this show?

[A]

I know. I can't help, like, going back and listening to all of this. It's still just staying with me. And I have so many questions, and the questions keep multiplying. What was this motherfucker's end game?

[B]

I know. I mean, what if you had called the number?

[D]

Well, the detective. He did call.

[A]

The detective called the number, and I'm curious if it was a number he had specifically for me to call. And so he answered. And I'm curious if he was surprised it was a male voice at the end. I'm curious if he actually believed it was truly an lap detective, which it was. And it wasn't just Andy with a mustache on, you know, but the detective. Then the feedback to me was that he kind of pawned it off on his son who has. Who he claimed has, like, mental illness.

[B]

But I guess he answered the phone from the detective as his real name.

[A]

And I think he just said, hello. And the detective said, hi, this is Officer so and so from the lapd. Is this so and so? And he said, yeah, and hopefully was kind of shitting his pants.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And anyway, the call was successful in that his emails and the harassment totally stopped at that moment in time. And the detective felt confident that he got through to him, although he did not take full ownership of it in any way whatsoever.

[B]

Right. There's still all these questions around it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We're in the middle of recording this podcast. We're in the middle of it. We don't really know for sure how it ends. And we're. We are going to go on a quest to find out some of these answers.

[D]

If you don't want to wait for more Beth's Dead, you can binge the entire series today at patreon.com bethsdead where all 10 episodes are available ad free. Right now, Beth's Dead is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman. And nobody's listening, right? It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lame and Monica Padman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis Music and sound by Andy Rosen. Special thanks to Tammy Sager, our non mentor mentor and also Andrea Dominguez, our longtime web designer and sleuth from duckbrigade.com.

[G]

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