BETH'S DEAD — Episode 7: "We Need To Bring In An Expert"

Release Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Monica Padman, Elizabeth Laime, Andy Rosen
Special Guest: Dr. Evita March (Associate Professor of Psychology, Federation University Australia)

Episode Overview

In Episode 7, the BETH'S DEAD team pivots from piecing together their personal catfishing mystery to seeking professional guidance. Monica brings in Dr. Evita March, a cyberpsychology expert, to illuminate the psychology behind catfishing, why people engage in such complex deception, and what victims can learn about protecting themselves. The latter half explores the findings of a private investigator, bringing the hosts and listeners closer to understanding both the perpetrator’s mindset and next steps. Anxiety, closure, and the search for answers permeate the episode, setting the stage for a possible confrontation with the catfisher.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing the Investigation

• Monica sets the agenda: The team agrees to two main objectives — talk to a catfishing expert and then review findings from a private investigator before considering direct contact with the perpetrator.
  • [01:48] Monica: "I wanted to make sure we were doing all of our due diligence. So today's episode is going to be in two parts."

2. Introduction to Catfishing and Dr. Evita March

• Meet the expert: Dr. Evita March introduces herself as a cyberpsychologist specializing in online antisocial behaviors, with a research focus that includes trolling, stalking, and catfishing.
  • [03:32] Dr. March: "My research expertise is in cyberpsychology...why people behave antisocially online."

3. The Hosts' Story — Personal Catfishing Ordeal

• Elizabeth recounts the deception: She and Andy hosted an advice podcast, developed relationships with listeners (particularly vulnerable young women), and discovered that one individual inventing multiple personas had infiltrated their personal and professional lives.
  • [05:56] Elizabeth: "...we realized that one person was posing as eight of these characters...they all had very rich lives."

4. Understanding Catfishing — Definitions & Motivations

• Expert breakdown of online deception:
  • Four categories: Trolling, Category Deception, Impersonation (catfishing), and Identity Concealment.
  • Catfishing is defined as "pretending to be somebody else online for the goal of either their own amusement or fraud."
  • [09:03] Dr. March: "Catfishing fits into online deception...pretending to be somebody else online for the goal of either their own amusement or fraud."
• Motivations:
  • Financial exploitation is most common and publicized.
  • Other motivations: sexual predation, psychological manipulation, escapism, or entertainment.
  • Some cases (like Elizabeth's) lack clear external goals, which Dr. March describes as "far more tricky to pinpoint" but linked to certain personality traits.

5. The Psychological Toll on Victims

• Victim shame & trauma:
  • [11:31] Dr. March: "We see a range of psychological outcomes like depression, anxiety symptoms consistent with PTSD...the feeling of shame."
• Elizabeth reflects on her own experience of being drawn in and manipulated.

6. The Catfisher’s Mindset — Dark Tetrad Personality Traits

• Dr. March’s research into common traits among catfishers:
  • Narcissism (egoism, superiority)
  • Psychopathy (impulsiveness, lack of guilt/empathy)
  • Machiavellianism (manipulativeness, though not always present)
  • Sadism (enjoyment of causing harm)
  • [21:41] Dr. March: "...people who engaged in those higher levels of catfishing had higher narcissism, higher psychopathy and particularly blowing off the charts was sadism."
• Gender doesn’t predict catfishing: When personality traits are controlled for, gender is not significant.

7. Parasocial Relationships and Online Vulnerability

• Monica relates catfishing to parasocial relationships (one-sided attachment to media personalities), a phenomenon blurred further by podcasting and social media.
  • [23:01] Monica: "...parasocial relationships...you can feel entitled to those people even though you don't know them."
• Dr. March differentiates: Catfishing is active manipulation versus the passive fantasy of parasocial attachment.

8. Are Catfishers Dangerous?

• Safety concerns:
  • Romantic/sexual predators are clearly dangerous.
  • For cases without criminal/sexual motivation, Dr. March suggests the main harm is psychological, not physical.
  • [27:19] Dr. March: "The very act of what they're doing is dangerous because of the psychological impact...But whether they are actually going to...be violent...there haven't been a lot of outcomes of violence."

9. Manipulation Tactics & Warning Signs

• Multiple alter egos: Catfishers often invent several characters to corroborate each other and maintain the deception.
• Echo chamber effect: Victims are drawn further in and find it nearly impossible to see the manipulation until someone outside points it out.
  • [32:11] Dr. March: "When you are in it, it is actually...you're lost...They have created a world of control for you."
• Advice: When something feels off, "talk to somebody who is not in it" for objectivity.

10. Comparing Catfishing to Domestic Abuse Cycles

• Parallels noted: Love-bombing, manipulation, control, and the difficulty of extraction resemble traits of intimate partner abuse.
  • [35:04] Monica: "...it's sort of akin to domestic abuse cases...it's like, hate you, love you cycle."
  • [35:25] Dr. March: "It is abuse. And yeah, it is absolutely a different form."

11. Digital Footprint and Privacy

• Importance of digital literacy, privacy, and reporting/blocking features for online safety.
  • [37:06] Dr. March: “I'm just an advocate in general for increasing our digital literacy, keeping us safe online.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On feeling duped and shame:
  [11:31] Elizabeth: "I don't know if there's an element of shame for me?...how did I not see it? How did I not know?..."
• On the complexity of motivations:
  [12:31] Dr. March: "Money is not always the goal. There are quite a few instances where, like you're aware, the goal is far more tricky to pinpoint..."
• On sadism as a predictor:
  [21:41] Dr. March: "Sadism was an incredibly strong predictor...their enjoyment of hurting other people was very strong."
• On manipulation and loss of objectivity:
  [34:15] Dr. March: "It's almost as if they put these...pair of sunglasses on you, and you are now lost in this world..."
• On digital literacy:
  [37:06] Dr. March: "I'm a very strong advocate as well for embedding more digital literacy in education programs for younger adults..."
• On proceeding with contacting the perpetrator:
  [49:54] Monica: "My most important question for her was, do you think this person is a threat? And she said no...he does not have a criminal record."

Segment Timestamps

• [01:41] – Monica introduces the episode (“two parts”: expert & PI findings)
• [03:12] – Introduction of Dr. Evita March
• [04:59] – Elizabeth & Andy retell their catfishing ordeal
• [09:03] – Dr. March defines catfishing, categories of online deception
• [12:31] – Types of catfishing, famous real-life cases
• [21:41] – Personality research: narcissism, sadism, psychopathy
• [23:01] – Parasocial relationships discussion
• [26:17] – Are these people dangerous?
• [32:11] – Advice: how to recognize and check for catfishing
• [34:15] – Sunglasses metaphor for manipulation/control
• [35:04] – Domestic abuse comparisons
• [37:06] – Importance of digital literacy
• [40:11] – Hosts process the expert conversation and pivot to PI findings
• [41:29] – Private investigator’s report: motivation, victimhood narrative
• [47:18] – Discovery of real people behind fake personas, name parallels
• [49:54] – Are we sure about the culprit? (PI’s assurance)
• [50:22] – Discussion of reaching out to the perpetrator
• [53:32] – Drafting the email
• [58:01] – Sending the email, anticipation
• [End] – Episode closes, anticipation for next steps

Structure & Tone

The episode balances personal vulnerability, expert insight, and investigative tension. The hosts oscillate between humor, anxiety, and empathy, while Dr. March provides a calm, research-based perspective.

Conclusion / Next Steps

• The team agrees to reach out to the perpetrator via email using their old podcast address (“Totally Lame”), hoping the familiarity will prompt a response.
• They resolve to approach the confrontation as a team, pursue closure, and maintain their own safety.
• The show ends with them sending the email — a milestone that heightens anticipation for the next episode, where the catfisher’s response (or lack thereof) could finally provide much-needed answers and closure.

If you haven’t listened:
This episode is essential for understanding the psychological underpinnings of catfishing from both the victim and perpetrator perspectives, learning practical digital safety tips, and witnessing the emotional journey of those affected. It blends true crime mystery, self-reflection, and expert advice, setting up a crucial turning point in the investigation.