EP9 - Can You See Me Now

Summary

BETH’S DEAD – EP9: "Can You See Me Now"

Podcast: Beth’s Dead
Hosts: Monica Padman, Elizabeth Laime, Andy Rosen
Date: December 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This climactic episode of Beth’s Dead centers on Monica, Elizabeth, and Andy’s video call confrontation with the anonymous “catfisher” who upended their lives and podcasting careers years earlier. The conversation, tense and raw, becomes a journey through addiction, mental health, and online deception, ultimately culminating in a surprising sense of closure for all parties. The episode is as much about the personal fallout of parasocial relationships as it is about empathy, addiction, and the limits of forgiveness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reveal: Who Is the Catfisher?

• [00:34–02:30] The hosts call the person they’ve believed to be the source of years of manipulation—expecting it to be the father, only to find out it’s actually the son.
• The caller grants permission to record audio (with voice alteration for anonymity) and refuses to give his name on the show.

Elizabeth Laime: "Was not expecting that. When we heard his initial voice, I thought, it's not him. Like, holy shit." (33:05)

2. Motives and Substance Abuse

• [03:34–05:06] The catfisher admits to impersonating multiple identities (Beth, Anders, Natasha, Frank), citing a severe substance abuse problem—alcohol and daily opioids—that clouded his memory and judgment.
• He describes himself as a “high functioning alcoholic” since 17, escalating to a daily opioid habit before intersecting with the hosts’ shows.

Catfisher: "I had a really severe substance abuse problem at the time... by the time I intersected with you... I had been doing opioids every day for three years." (04:26)

• Now three years sober, he expresses deep regret.

3. Psychological Underpinnings and Parasocial Trauma

• [06:09–08:47] The catfisher discusses the loneliness and desperation that drove his actions, stating the podcast reminded him of friendships he had lost to addiction.
• He admits that writing the suicide storyline for the “Beth” character was not premeditated, but speculates it may have reflected his own state of mind, marked by self-loathing and suicidal ideation.

Catfisher: "If I ever had taken my life, you wouldn't—I wouldn't know how people felt about it... maybe I wanted to see somebody's response to that end." (07:17)

4. Escalation, Loss of Control, and Impact on Hosts

• The hosts probe the emotional high of receiving attention, the escalation and blurring of identity online, and how the removal of his comments felt like being rejected by “real friends.”
• He confesses that it never crossed his mind how frightened or alarmed his actions might have made the hosts until much later.

Catfisher: "It didn't cross my mind how much you might have freaked Andy and Elizabeth out until, you know, after the dust had settled." (14:31)

5. The Power—and Pitfalls—of Online Relationships

• [15:30–16:12] The discussion touches on the deceptive intimacy of internet interactions and the “repercussion-free” feeling that made behaviors like unsolicited flirtation seem permissible, even though they would never occur face-to-face.

Catfisher: "I would never do that to a guy's wife in person... but you feel okay doing that behind a keyboard." (15:40)

6. Elizabeth’s Perspective & Unanswered Questions

• [17:53–22:48] Elizabeth joins the conversation, expressing her shock at the true identity and voicing lingering questions—about the $1,000 donation, the intent behind urging her to call a number, and the emotional debts implied through “brother” messages.
• The catfisher, foggy about many details, reiterates his lack of planning and deep remorse.

Elizabeth: "What was your plan going to be if I had called the number that you kept telling me to call?"
Catfisher: "I didn't have a plan. I was a fucking idiot... I obviously shouldn't have done that." (21:05–21:34)

7. Life After: Recovery and Fear for the Future

• The catfisher now lives alone, attends Narcotics Anonymous, and voices worries about ever having a family due to guilt and fear of relapse (23:02–23:39).

Catfisher: "I'm a little scared. Stuff like this... make me think I might not be good for a family if I ever relapse." (23:05)

8. The Catfisher’s Complete Confession

• He confirms he never repeated this behavior with anyone else and never contacted the hosts after the police intervention.
• Names like Beth were based on real acquaintances, but “Frank” and other personas were simply manifestations of his distress and trolling without any political or malicious intent (29:09–31:08).

9. Reflections and Closure

• [33:01–43:16] After the call, the hosts process the unexpected turn, overwhelmed by compassion, relief, and a sense of closure.
• Monica, Elizabeth, and Andy highlight the lessons in empathy, the dangers of dehumanization on both sides of parasocial relationships, and the healing power of honest conversation.

Elizabeth: "There's something maybe poetic about all of this—that what catfishing is is sort of not seeing people as human. And in some ways, we did that... That conversation was, like, not just for him to see... humans on the other side. It was for us to see a human on the other side." (35:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On addiction’s ripple effect:

  "You're shitty to the people around you when you're an addict, but you don't think you're gonna hurt people you don't even know and that you think highly of."
  — Catfisher (12:04)

• On the emotional aftermath:

  "I do feel like I have, like, a huge sense of closure... I feel like a huge weight has lifted."
  — Elizabeth (33:41–33:53)

• On forgiveness and compassion:

  "I'm walking away with, like, so much compassion. And it feels very, like, full circle to me."
  — Elizabeth (35:08)

• On the fundamental lesson:

  "Accountability in any relationship is, like, what you do flippantly might have such a massive impact on the other person and you don't even know."
  — Monica (41:28)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:34] – Start of call; expecting the “professor,” realize it’s the son
• [03:54] – Catfisher admits to all personas
• [04:26] – Details of addiction and substance abuse
• [06:09] – Motivation for starting the deception; desire for connection
• [07:17] – On inventing the suicide narrative
• [12:04] – Deep regret and inability to listen to their podcasts anymore
• [17:53] – Elizabeth joins to ask her questions
• [21:05] – The $1,000 donation and the unplanned phone call
• [23:02] – Catfisher’s life now and uncertainty about the future
• [29:39] – Odd behavior as “Frank” in the comments; reflections on trolling
• [33:01] – Hosts' emotional post-call debrief
• [35:20] – Realizations about the meaning of catfishing and humanization

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode maintains a vulnerable, candid, and ultimately empathetic tone. There are painful admissions, genuine apologies, and a cathartic sense of relief as the mystery is unwound—not with anger, but with understanding on both sides. The exchange spotlights the dangers of unchecked online intimacy but also the possibilities of radical honesty and grace in encounters with those who have done harm.

Beth’s Dead Episode 9 stands out as a restorative, thought-provoking meditation on forgiveness, addiction, and the complicated humanity behind every digital interaction.

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For Listeners:

This episode is a must-listen if you’ve followed the series, but just as powerful as a standalone look at the shadowy side of online fandom and the often surprising path to healing wounds left in the digital dark.

Transcript

[Andy Rosen]

Today's episode mentions suicide. If you are having suicidal thoughts, please know you are not alone. And help is available in the U.S. dial 988 where you'll have access to free one on one counselors who are there to provide compassionate support.

[Monica Padman]

Welcome to Beth's Dead. This is episode nine. I'm Monica Padman. I'm here with Elizabeth and Andy. We are all on our computers right now because we are about to call the professor. We're sort of at the point where this whole season has led up to. We're nervous and you're here with us in real time, so we're just going to jump right in.

[Andy Rosen]

There's no way. The video is on.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Let's go.

[Andy Rosen]

Here.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Deep breath, deep breath.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Monica Padman]

We can hear you. We don't hear you. Can't see you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Okay, hang on a second. Let me see if I can get. Can you see me now?

[Andy Rosen]

No, you just gotta hit the. The video button next to the microphone button.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Okay, hang on a sec. This is not something I do a lot. There, you're in.

[Monica Padman]

We can see you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

All right, cool.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks for chatting with us.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah. We really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I'm sorry it's. Under these circumstances, normally I'd be really happy to see both of you.

[Monica Padman]

Can you confirm who you are?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

What. What would you like me to say? Because I'm.

[Monica Padman]

I guess we. We anticipated. Well, also. Okay, so just so you know, we're not recording any of this video. Just so you know, none of that's recorded. We are wondering if there's any chance if you're okay with it if we do record audio and if we use any, we would change your voice.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, that's fine. Okay.

[Monica Padman]

Okay. Thank you.

[Andy Rosen]

We appreciate that.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

And so we won't use your name, FYI, but we just. We. We would like to know.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, my name is.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, I guess we. We're going to be honest. We were expecting to see your dad.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Why would. Why was that?

[Andy Rosen]

Well, you know, when. When this all happened, you know, there was a detective became involved.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

And we were under the assumption that it was your father from the investigation that was done.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Oh. Oh, no. I wish someone had told me that at the time. My dad has no idea of any of this. Wow. Wow. Okay. I just happen to be living in his basement at the time.

[Monica Padman]

Are you still living there? Are you still living with him? No.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, I'm not. I'm so sorry for him because he hasn't. He had nothing to do with this.

[Monica Padman]

That'S good for us to know.

[Andy Rosen]

So just to confirm and we can get into some more detailed stuff. But just off the top, are we right in assuming that you were responsible for emails from a few different characters? Mainly there was Beth, Anders and Natasha. Those are like the first that pop into my mind.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, I'm going to be really upfront because this will be a big thing throughout. I don't remember a lot and this will go to the underlying reasons for a lot of this. I had a really severe substance abuse problem at the time. So if there are others, there could be. But yeah, those are, Those were all me. I'm. Yeah, if you linked them to me, they're me.

[Andy Rosen]

Can you speak to the. What type of substance abuse was going on at that time?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, I mean I've been kind of high functioning alcoholic for basically since I was like 17 and by the time I intersected with you earlier. Yeah, my paths crossed. I had been doing opioids every day for three years or so and. Yeah. Which eventually got me in trouble with the law, as you can imagine. So, yeah, there's just a lot that I don't remember and can't explain very well because of that.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Are you. How are you doing now? I would be remiss if I didn't ask.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, it's been tough. But I'm about three years totally clean and sober.

[Monica Padman]

Congratulations.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Thanks.

[Monica Padman]

We obviously have questions. Andy and Elizabeth have been sitting with questions for. For quite a while.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Well. Oh, sorry, let me. I'm sorry to interrupt because I was contacted by, I believe a police detective around the time this happened and if it hadn't been for him saying, you know, that you guys would prefer no more contact, which totally makes sense to me, I would have at least apologized if not tried to explain my. I mean, I couldn't have tried to. I couldn't have explained myself because I was. I was high out of my mind and stuff. It doesn't really make sense, but I at least would have tried to say how sorry I was. So. Yeah, I'm sure you do have questions.

[Monica Padman]

I guess I have a question which is. Well, first of all, were you doing this? Do you know, to other people as well, like other podcasts, or was it solely them and what was it about them?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

It's going to be shitty to hear this, but you know, as you get deeper into addiction, you start pushing people away. And it's not just that you're podcast reminded me generally of like the banter I used to have with friends. You reminded Me of actual friends I had. So you seemed like cool, smart people. And you know, the shitty part is that like, I know I ended up causing you guys some pain or distress or whatever. Sorry, I shouldn't say whatever. I'm not trying to minimize it, but I wouldn't have done that if you didn't seem like really likable, level headed people, you know? So it was just you guys. And I feel really shitty about that.

[Monica Padman]

I know what you mean. And I can relate because I was a huge fan of their shows as well. And I get what you mean. But I guess when you started as Beth, did it get away from you? Did you know that you were gonna. This is how she was gonna end? Did you. How did this happen?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, I definitely didn't. Like the how it ended part is one of the things that I wish I could explain, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Like how it started was just. I think I wanted more engagement. And the story I gave was true of someone I went to high school with, that she had done modeling and since regretted and stuff. So I don't know, I. It's sort of like asking someone why they did something while they were drunk, you know, and you just go, well, if you don't understand what being drunk is like, it's really hard to explain. So I can't really explain how the like ending part of it happened or whatever. But I. If I'm guessing it's that, you know, especially at that time I had a lot of self loathing and probably verging on like suicidal ideation. And so I don't know if I were guessing, trying to make like make sense of something that doesn't make sense. I'd say maybe like, you know, because if I ever had taken my life, you wouldn't. I wouldn't know how people felt about it. And I know that's such a fucked up thing to say that like I wanted to see somebody's response to that end or something like that. But like that's the most sense I can make out of it. Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

And before the Beth character, you, you know, you had reached out in a few different ways. And I think even before Beth there was a character named Natasha. And we were just kind of curious. Was your kind of initial intention more to work more with that character in the beginning, if you recall? Does that make any sense, that question?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Oh, for sure. I don't think I had thought through like an end game with any of this. I don't think I had a plan. I Don't know what I was thinking with that. I never wrote in with a question as Natasha did. I like, for the podcast.

[Andy Rosen]

You emailed us Natasha, for sure.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

And. And much earlier than Beth's existence, you emailed as Natasha.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, I don't think I had a plan for that. This is where my memory gets really fuzzy. And. Yeah, Yeah, I. I can't say what that was about, really, with any certainty. I. I don't have access to those emails anymore. As far as I know, those accounts don't exist.

[Monica Padman]

There's one more major reason We. We thought it was your dad who is, you know, notable in a community. And there was an email from. It was from Anders and Natasha. I don't know if you remember this. Anders was writing it on behalf of Natasha, but it was very. I would say, manifesto adjacent.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And so.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Really?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, so there was a. To us, that was a, like, big indicator once we, you know, knew about your family.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, no, that. It definitely was me. It just would have been me working through some stuff just based on the stuff I grew up hearing about, but. But definitely wasn't my dad in any way.

[Monica Padman]

And were you. I don't. Again, I don't know if you remember this, but were you? I mean. Cause, you know, I know. I know the main question when anyone hears the story is like, huh, what was this person getting out of it? And I know you said there's, like, there was a connection piece, and I do really understand that, but was there, like a. I mean, ironically, like a high from, like, getting the emails back or.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Probably, I would say so. You know, I think I said this in my email to Andy that that was definitely the darkest period of my life because I was working a job where it was. I worked with other people, but it was basically just me with a pair of headphones, you know, and then I went home and got drunk or high or whatever. And as I got worse with the drugs and whatnot, I. You know, you push people away quite a bit. And so, yeah, I'm sure there was, like, a high of getting people that you feel like, you know, even, like you don't and. Yeah. And treating you like your friends. And I realize that. I realize we're not. That's. I know that's what a parasocial relationship is, but. Yeah, I guess there was sort of a high. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Do you think about this a lot?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, it's one of the things I regret most. I'm not even kidding. There. A couple of things I regret most in my entire life. Was this up there? It's weird. It's weird. It doesn't make sense to me even. It's like, you know, you're shitty to the people around you when you're an addict, but you don't think you're gonna hurt people you don't even know and that you think highly of. Because I do think highly of Andy and Elizabeth. Like, and this bothers me enough that I've never been able to listen to their podcasts anymore. I just feel so, so weird about this. And. Yeah, so I've thought about this for years. Yeah, it's really, really bothered me.

[Monica Padman]

You can imagine. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's.

[Andy Rosen]

There was an aspect of when things were unraveling, if you will, sort of. And we had stopped contact with you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

There seemed to be some distress coming from your end. Let's call it your end, obviously, about, obviously the lack of contact, that you're not getting responses, but also that we had started removing some of the comments that were coming from you on the website and whatnot. Can you speak to that at all? Do you remember that? And the frustration maybe you were having with that aspect of everything?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I do remember kind of freaking out because I, you know, it felt like they know what's going on or they have some inkling what's going on. And, you know, it felt like real friends were telling you to off, we hate you, which is understandable, but, like, it's. That's how it felt. As wrong as that, as inaccurate as that is. And so, yeah, I was. I'm sure I was freaking out and said some weird stuff. Weirder than the other stuff, let's say. Right.

[Andy Rosen]

Right. Gotcha.

[Monica Padman]

Well, you know, we all have. Andy and Elizabeth continue podcast. I have many podcasts as well. And it is an interesting thing to balance relationships with the audience. And it does look like, you know, things like this obviously instill a lot of fear for. For who's getting taken advantage of and like, what. What people think they're owed.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. Yeah. I never thought I could do this to somebody. And it didn't cross my mind how much you might have freaked people or you and Andy and Elizabeth out until, you know, after the dust had settled a bit. Wow, that's. That could really alarm somebody, maybe even frighten them. And I. It genuinely never crossed my mind that that could be true while I was doing it. And as you might expect with someone with severe addiction issues, you know, I had some undiagnosed mental. Underlying mental health problems. And I don't Know, like, this is such an obvious thing to say, but that doesn't go well with the Internet, you know? Yeah. You know, nothing I have is really uncommon. Like, I don't suffer from, like, psychosis or anything, but you just don't think how much that'll potentially affect how you interact with people online.

[Monica Padman]

It's weird because in some ways, like, you, they're so real to you. They're your friends. But in another way, they're not real at all. Like, there's no repercussions.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I feel weird even saying this out loud. I know there was an email where I said in somebody that I thought Elizabeth was attractive. Right. And I would never do that to a guy's wife in person, you know, I would never feel okay about that. It's weird it. That it. But you feel okay doing that behind a keyboard or whatever.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Sure.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. I. I don't know. I'm just really, really sorry about all this.

[Andy Rosen]

So, you know, we wanted to hop on here, obviously, and talk. Would you be comfortable with Elizabeth talking to you at all?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. All right. She's comfortable. Yeah. Because I feel like I owe an apology if nothing else.

[Andy Rosen]

Okay, give me one second. I'm gonna text a link to this.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Guys.

[Monica Padman]

Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Andy Rosen]

This thing weighs a ton.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Drew Ski, Live with your legs, man.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Santa.

[Monica Padman]

Santa, did you get my letter?

[Andy Rosen]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I'm not.

[Monica Padman]

Of course he did.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Right, Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski. He handles the nice list and elf.

[Andy Rosen]

I'm six' three.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and.

[Andy Rosen]

At T Mobile, you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Right, Mrs. Claus?

[Monica Padman]

I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister, and AT T Mobile, there's no trade in needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Or give it as a gift.

[Monica Padman]

And the best part, you can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Nice. My side of the tree is slipping, Kimber.

[Andy Rosen]

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[Elizabeth Lame]

Hello? Can you hear me?

[Monica Padman]

Yes.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yep.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Okay. Hello?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Hi. I just want to start by saying I'm really, really sorry. I've tried my best to explain to Andy and Monica as well as I could whatever was going through my head all those years ago. But if there's anything you want to ask me or get off your chest, feel free.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. Andy told me that you were struggling with addiction, and I'm glad that you seem better. So I do appreciate that it was a scary, you know, weird experience, and I think it opens my eyes to, like, what can happen in the Internet, you know?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And I do have questions at. I totally thought that you were someone else, and I knew the person and, like, got to know their online Persona. So I'm kind of shocked and I have a few questions. Well, one is like, did you travel with your dad a lot?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, not a lot, but I did travel. I travel independently and with my dad.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Okay. And also you made a donation as Beth. A like, pretty big donation of a thousand dollars. Do you remember that?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I actually didn't, but I assume I did.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Because it seems. I mean, I guess you don't. You don't remember a lot. I totally understand. Probably you. It's a blur. It was a long time ago. But a lot of what was kind of played out referenced this $1,000 donation as though it seemed like maybe you donating. That made it seem like I was indebted to you as Beth or as. I don't know. You don't remember any of that?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I. That makes sense. I don't remember that. That's a shitty thing for me to have done. I'm really, really sorry. Thank you. Yeah, I assume that would have been. When you say that it. I made it seem like I've. Like, you were indebted. I assume that would have been stuff that happened once you guys started taking down my posts and stuff.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I think it was a lot of it. I mean, it was like. As the brother, you were saying, like, things that referenced that. A thousand dollars, as if I then owed the brother an explanation. And here's my main question for you that I've wondered for so long is what was your plan going to be if I had called the number that you kept telling me to call?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Did I give you a phone number?

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. Well, it's the number that the detective ended up calling.

[Monica Padman]

So it was the working. It was your phone number.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

It was my phone number. I didn't have a plan. I was a fucking idiot. Long and short of It. Because I don't remember doing that. I obviously shouldn't. Even if I'd been trying to con you or something, I shouldn't have done that. So I didn't have a plan. I. I don't know.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I see.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. If I. I'm guessing at what you were talking about earlier with the thousand dollars. I said this to Andy and Monica, that. I probably said some especially shitty stuff when you guys started deleting my posts, because it felt like, you know, it felt like I was losing real friends, as dumb as that sounds, once you guys were catching on. And so I. I'm guessing I referenced the thousand dollars once that started happening, but I genuinely don't remember.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Got it.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Well, I. I really appreciate. I. Genuine. I mean, I sat this out because I was so sufficiently creeped out by everything that. But I really appreciate you talking to us and you know that you didn't have to do that. So thank you very much. And I'm also glad to hear that you're sober.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I'm gonna get off and then let Andy and Monica, you know, if you guys have more questions or whatever. But I just wanted to.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Okay, hop on. All right. Thank you. And I'm. I'm sorry again.

[Monica Padman]

Thank you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

All right.

[Monica Padman]

Okay.

[Andy Rosen]

Are you still living with any family anymore? Are you on your own?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, I'm on my own right now. Gotcha.

[Monica Padman]

Do you have a family of your own?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, I don't. I kind of doubt I'm going to with them. You know, I may be sober for as long as I have been, but I. I'm. Stuff like this. Honestly, this and a couple other things make me think I might not be good for a family if I ever relapse or something like that. So I'm. I'm a little scared.

[Monica Padman]

Well, I know a lot of people who are in recovery and have families, and so, you know. Are you working a program?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah, I'm in Narcotics Anonymous.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, great. Well, Andy, do you have anything else?

[Andy Rosen]

We may have already spoken to this, though, but did you. Had you formed any of these types of relationships with any other people or anything online?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I've never done it before or since. I think, honestly, the format of your show kind of prompted it. Because I'm trying to think how to explain this where it doesn't sound like a. Well, I had questions that I thought were interesting, like the high school friend that was at Beth who did the modeling. I thought that was an interesting question. But I'm not her, so I don't Know why I couldn't have asked it as myself. I don't want to say your show prompted me to do this kind of multiple identities thing, but, I mean, that was part of it, I guess, was writing in as a different person. Yeah. You know, made the question more. I don't know. I'm trying to think what I was thinking. I don't really know.

[Andy Rosen]

And again, you've already kind of spoken to the fogginess of this around the time where it kind of escalated, if you will. Do you recall at all why you chose the suicide story?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, I. Something must have been going on in my own life to make me sort of want to game that out. That's such a sick term. I'm sorry, but. Because I've. I've lost people to suicide and stuff, so. I'm listening. It's not a. Not something I take lightly or would. If I'm so clean and sober, it's not something I'd use to manipulate people with. I'm not sure what prompted that. I'm really not. It's because obviously if I'm going for engagement from you guys, that doesn't make sense either. You know, to remove a character, so to speak, doesn't make sense. If I'm trying to have as much engagement as possible. I really don't know what I was doing. I'm sorry. I wish. I wish I could make sense of that, but. But like, I. The best I can come up with is what I said earlier where, like, Because I struggled with thoughts of suicide so much myself.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

And maybe I was just looking for, like, a response I could perceive to, you know, especially because I'm sure at the time I thought no one would care if I killed myself, you know, but maybe this nice inner mouth lady would care about this woman that should have a friendly correspondence with. Right. You know?

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Because I. I had a pretty low opinion of myself at the time.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

Do you remember when the detective reached out? Kind of what we had heard back was almost as if they had referred to whoever they called, assumed it was your father. Do you remember, if you would kind of acknowledge, like, yes, I am. But then do you remember that being you? Because I, I. There isn't a world. Just. Just so you know, the detective wasn't calling like multiple people or anything like that. So it would have been the number that you gave us.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Right.

[Andy Rosen]

So I'm assuming if you remember a call with the detective that was you on the phone.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

It definitely was. I don't remember the language he used. I don't remember how I identified myself.

[Monica Padman]

Could you have given your dad's number? Is that do you think?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, no, it was my number. Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Got it.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

He had no idea this was happening. I never talked with him about any of it at the time. He didn't even know I was using drugs. I've got my disagreements with my dad. You guys, I'm sure would have plenty of disagreements with them, but he's deep down a good person. He. He would be horrified by this. That's one of the reasons I'm so paranoid about.

[Monica Padman]

Understandably. Yeah, yeah, we understand.

[Andy Rosen]

We totally understand.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

It was. And it was me that talked with him. I do remember that because it came, actually. I know it won't seem like a long time to you guys, but it came when I was kind of coming to my senses already. Like, oh, what am I doing? I've got to leave these people alone. And then. So it seemed like a long time to me. And then that call came and I. If I wasn't going to leave you alone before, I was after that.

[Andy Rosen]

Right, right.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

So. Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

And did you ever reach out after that? Because if I'm going to be completely honest, you know, our radar went up after this whole incident. Right. And you know, we were fielding tons of questions from different people and occasionally there were some times where we would get a question where we really truly felt like it was you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No. Honest to God, I've never contacted you or donated or anything like that ever again. Yeah. Like I said, the only reason I would have done that would be to apologize. But I figured, and I think the detective told me you guys would just as soon be left alone. Yeah. So, no, I've. I've never contacted you guys in any way.

[Monica Padman]

And were the names connected to anyone? Like people? I mean, I know you said that Beth was based on someone you knew, but we did piece together some funny in quotes coincidence that, you know, Elizabeth's name could be short and also Anders in some way is connected.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. I'm not even kidding. That's.

[Monica Padman]

It took us a minute too, but we thought.

[Andy Rosen]

Even for Beth or.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

No, no. The best thing I knew, but that's just because I. I had dated a girl named Beth. That's it. The honest thing genuinely never crossed my mind that it sounds like Andy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

And were there more people we know? There was Beth, Natasha. There was a frank character.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. This should maybe tell you how fucked up I was. If you'll indulge me for a second. For the Life of me. I can't tell you why I did this. In your comments section, Frank would get on and spout, like, Trumpist shit. Yeah. I've hated Donald Trump since he came on the political scene. I mean, but I know as Frank, he was spouting this pro Trumpist shit, and I don't know why I did that. Like, it was just stuff that I was hurting in my life. I feel like that doesn't make sense, obviously, but I guess if you're high and isolated and kind of wanting to bounce ideas off people, like. Because it sounds like I was going into the comment section to troll or something, which I. I guess in some sense I was, but, like. But not in the. I don't know. I wasn't doing it just to irritate people. I can't tell you why I was doing it.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

You know, I mean, like, for the life of me that, yeah, this doesn't make any sense to me now. It's. You know, I. I get it if you didn't, like, fully believe me on this. This was a real learning experience for me, too, because, like, it's. I did not start out trying to, like, cause a lot of stress to people or, like, even though, like, that's the funny thing, I. It was pretty deep into it before I even realized what I was doing was catfishing somebody. Like, I knew the term.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

But, like, it didn't even dawn on me. It's just, like, who. What does it matter who I am? And then you realize what you're doing is pretty up.

[Andy Rosen]

Well, thank you for taking the time to do this and kind of taking us through all of it, and. Yeah, I appreciate you being honest and frank about all of it with us.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. I. There's a part of me that wishes I could have gotten this years ago. I mean, I couldn't until I was sober, but. But I'm still just incredibly sorry about this. You know, I. Oh, I think that's what I was saying earlier, but this was a real learning experience for me. But, like, I didn't set out to do this, and by the end of it, it took me a while to realize how much it must have upset you guys. I. I don't want to assume or presume the feelings you guys were having, but I know in my. I know what it would have done to me, I think, and I. I can't imagine so. Especially with kids and everything. So I. I'm just so, so sorry about that.

[Andy Rosen]

Thank you.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah.

[Monica Padman]

Well, we really appreciate you taking the time and really? Congratulations on three years. That's a lot. And hopefully, you know, keep it up.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Monica Padman]

All right, bye.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

All right, bye.

[Monica Padman]

Okay, so we just got off the call. Let's go ahead and stay on and, you know, let's get first reactions. How are we feeling?

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Wow. Wow, wow, wow.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Was not expecting that. When we heard his initial voice, I thought, it's not him. Like, holy shit.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And then.

[Monica Padman]

I know.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I mean, I could cry, you guys. I. I have so many feelings right now, and actually, I was kind of crying at one point. I feel I was so prepared to call bullshit on everything. And I truly feel like he was so sincere.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And, yeah, I don't know. I do feel like I have, like, a huge sense of closure.

[Monica Padman]

Oh, that makes me so happy.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I feel like a huge weight has lifted. You know, we've been pretty scared throughout this whole thing that even putting this out there would, like, poke the bear and some scary boogeyman was gonna come after us. And I feel like the weight of that completely lifted.

[Andy Rosen]

I was definitely experiencing that. I felt. I mean, I truly felt, like, some compassion for him.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I felt like, how could you not? I mean.

[Andy Rosen]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Lame]

And also, like, we were so surprised that he was gonna play ball and do this, and I think we thought.

[Monica Padman]

We had to kind of trick him.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Into it, and he was prepared. I mean, it's almost like he's like, come of it what may, I hope he feels like he has closure too, you know?

[Monica Padman]

Me too. Me, too.

[Elizabeth Lame]

It couldn't have gone better. I mean, it could not have gone better in my mind, like, I could not in a million years have expected that it would be him, that I would walk away from this feeling. Because before this, Monica, you were saying, like, well, I can come in with some compassion, because Andy and I are just like, fuck this guy.

[Monica Padman]

Understandably, yes.

[Elizabeth Lame]

But I'm walking away with, like, so much compassion. And it feels very, like, full circle to me.

[Monica Padman]

There is something maybe poetic about all of this, that what catfishing is is sort of not seeing people as human. And in some ways, we did that right throughout this process. And that conversation was, like, not just for him to see that humans on the other side. It was for us to see a human on the other side.

[Andy Rosen]

Well, what's interesting is if we had had that same conversation with who we thought it was, okay. But let's say they had the same demeanor, the same remorse, I don't think we'd be having the same conversation at all right now, because we had all of these.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I wouldn't have bought it.

[Andy Rosen]

We wouldn't have bought it. We would have felt manipulated because we had a bunch of data suggesting that's what would have happened, sort of. But this. And also, can I just say, when he popped on the screen, it also was like for one, it's not who we think it is, but two, it's clearly the son of who we think it is because there was a resemblance which was, I don't know, was a little shocking to me too.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I could tell you were shocked because you were like silent for so long.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

I mean.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Oh my God.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah, it was. Well, also for the audience. Like at first the camera was reversed so it was not pointed at him. And then all of a sudden we could see his face. Face and was. It was a surprise. And you know, I hate like not to make this about the sim, but I cannot believe that this is like a show that armchair, you know, brought in under its wing. And it's an addiction story.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I know, it's wild. And I thought of all the people to have here with us is like one of the most knowledgeable and compassionate people around addiction.

[Monica Padman]

I hope it really. When he said the thing about his. A family that really broke my heart. And I really hope he like, you know, knows that. That it doesn't have to be his destiny.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I thought that was nice.

[Monica Padman]

We all do fucked up things. Oh boy.

[Elizabeth Lame]

You guys, I'm like, I have. I feel so overwhelmed right now. I feel very relieved also. Like you said, just the total cortisol jump dump of leading up to it and the anxiety. And then I just couldn't have imagined that that's who would show up. And I couldn't have imagined also that I would immediately like his face in the first two seconds. I thought this is a sincere person and how willing he was obviously to participate. And as unreal to me.

[Monica Padman]

It also speaks to this place we're in in the world that sometimes you just gotta talk to people. Like not everyone's who you think is the enemy. Is the enemies. I mean, when he was talking about his political stance, it was like, yeah, like we could have like had a fun conversation with him about that.

[Elizabeth Lame]

It's. I'm still like so shook. I mean, I have said to Andy probably six times in the last 48 hours. There is no world that it is not the person that we think it is. I keep. Because I've been re listening to all of our audio and I keep getting validation, confirmation, validation. And it's not. I was. Couldn't have been more wrong. I Mean, yeah. Wow. How. How are you two feeling? I'm feeling just like relief, compassion, but also I'm kind of in awe of how this unfolded. And it does feel rather like higher power kind of vibes. And so I'm feeling very moved, but also just, I'm sure, emotionally. What's that called? Frayed.

[Andy Rosen]

I feel a lot of relief, and I would have never expected it to go this way, but truly happy this is how it ended because it's. It's like the best case version of what could have happened that we. We had no idea was even a version.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Honestly, it's like a beautiful story. Now, Monica, how are you feeling?

[Monica Padman]

I mean, I'm feeling secondhand relief. I'm happy that you guys feel a weight off. And I agree with you. I really, really hope he does too. And it's. It's heartbreaking. I mean, it's heartbreaking. Like, the addiction is so sad and obviously I've seen it in my life and I. I just. I know he's right. Like, he doesn't know why. He doesn't know why. When you're on these things and when that's the only thing driving you, I've seen it. There's no answer. It made me very pleased to hear that he's sober, and I really hope he can, you know, stick with it.

[Elizabeth Lame]

I feel that if he did remember, he would have told us. Like, I feel like he wishes he remembered so he could kind of. I felt like he wanted us to also feel closure and, you know, like, his sincere remorse. But as soon as it became clear he really doesn't remember, like, all of the little nitty gritty questions I had about, like, when you sent the Natasha email and blah, blah, blah, it was kind of a relief that we won't have those answers and they don't really matter anymore.

[Monica Padman]

That's the other kind of crazy thing about all this, that accountability in any relationship is, like, what you do flippantly might have such a massive impact on the other person and you don't even know. And it's, like, important, I think, in general to remember that, whether it's people in your life or strangers.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah. I feel like that was a gift and there's a. I think there's something beautiful about this to me.

[Andy Rosen]

Absolutely.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah.

[Andy Rosen]

I mean, I wanted to give the guy a hug during that, which I know. Could you fucking ever imagine having that feeling an hour ago or two hours ago?

[Elizabeth Lame]

I, like, I know I. I feel like all of us were being kind of measured, but my instinct also was to be like, I totally, you know, I had that fully, like, yeah, like, I just want good things for him. Do not even give it another thought. It's fine.

[Monica Padman]

Don't even worry about it.

[Elizabeth Lame]

These things happen.

[Monica Padman]

Wasn't a big deal. We obviously overreacted.

[Elizabeth Lame]

So we overreacted by a 10 episode series that we're putting out.

[Monica Padman]

Yeah. Well, I hope that this does have an impact just on the way people see each other and think about each other and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was a lot what we just experienced. And I think maybe we should just take a beat before we do the last episode so we can really process everything and come back with sort of fresh eyes and ears on it.

[Elizabeth Lame]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Monica Padman]

All right, so we'll be back with the last episode of Beth's Dead soon.

[Beth's Dead Catfisher (Anonymous Caller)]

Foreign.

[Andy Rosen]

Is presented by armchair experts Monica Padman. And nobody's listening, right. It is produced and edited by Andy Rosen, Elizabeth Lame and Monica Patman. Additional engineering by Rob Hollis. Music and sound by Andy Rosenberg. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L, I B S Y N Ads. Com Today.