Alicia | Betrayal Weekly

Summary

Betrayal: Weekly

Episode Title: Alicia | Betrayal Weekly
Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Andrea Gunning
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode of Betrayal: Weekly features the harrowing story of "Alicia" (a pseudonym). It’s a powerful, first-person account of how Alicia, a lifelong dancer and studio owner, discovers her husband’s web of manipulation, lies, and abuse at the center of their shared dance community. As students reveal the extent of his control, Alicia must confront the destruction he wrought—transforming her safe haven into what her students describe as a cult.

The episode explores themes of trust, gaslighting, coercive control, manipulation within youth mentorship, and Alicia’s journey from confusion and heartbreak to action and advocacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Alicia’s Early Life and Dance as Salvation

[03:59] - [05:18]

• Alicia grew up in a turbulent, chaotic household in the 1980s, often fending for herself and her siblings due to a parent’s addiction.
• Her father signed her up for dance at age seven, which became her “safe space” and saved her from the dysfunction at home.
  • Quote: “I was the little scraggly kid in the back... The instructor made me feel seen and like it was okay.” – Alicia [04:37]
• Her instructor became a lifelong mentor and role model.

Full Circle: Teaching and Mentoring

[05:50] - [06:28]

• After college, Alicia returned to her childhood studio to teach, hoping to empower and nurture kids as her mentor had done for her.
• Alicia describes the immense joy and meaning in “giving back” and helping students feel seen.

Meeting Kevin: Shared Trauma Bonds and Rising Careers

[06:28] - [11:48]

• Kevin enters the studio circle—talented, charismatic, specializing in hip hop. He and Alicia bond over challenging upbringings and a shared passion for dance.
• They become close friends. Kevin expresses deeper feelings, lavishing Alicia with affection, gifts, and attention.
  • Quote: “He even got me this necklace... symbolized me shedding my last tear and that he wouldn't ever hurt me so I would never have to cry again.” – Alicia [09:08]
• Their relationship evolves into a whirlwind romance, culminating in a grand proposal at Windows on the World in NYC.

Marriage and Building a Dance Legacy Together

[11:48] - [14:09]

• Alicia and Kevin marry. Their shared commitment to dance and teaching continues. Kevin, a magnetic new teacher, quickly becomes beloved by students and parents.
• However, Alicia's mentor is wary, sensing something amiss about Kevin.
  • Quote: “They didn't seem to be clicking for some reason, and I thought that was unusual.” – Alicia [14:13]

The First Red Flag: Kevin Is Fired

[14:38] - [16:46]

• A parent complains to the studio about something Kevin said to a student. The owner lets him go, citing "artistic differences."
• Kevin frames the firing as an act of jealousy and betrayal. Under pressure, Alicia sides with Kevin, leaving the beloved studio.
  • Quote: “I had no other choice but to support him at that time. So then I had to leave the studio as well.” – Alicia [16:12]

New Beginnings: Opening Their Own Studio

[21:04] - [24:23]

• Kevin and Alicia open a new dance studio, designed as a supportive, pre-professional environment. Student and parent support is overwhelming.
• Alicia ensures multiple layers of safety: observation windows, cameras, open-door policies for transparency.
• Kim, a gifted former student and protégé, becomes their first hire.
  • Quote: “I had observation windows, I had cameras, because you always want to make sure that the parents feel comfortable and feel safe, especially with a male teacher.” – Alicia [22:09]
• Kevin’s hip hop crew achieves major success—national titles, TV appearances, wide acclaim.

Marriage Drifts, Kevin Loses Interest, Trouble Brews

[24:23] - [25:58]

• The partnership turns platonic; Alicia sacrifices her own dreams (including having children) as Kevin grows more obsessed with his dance crew.
• Her request to separate is met with surprising calm from Kevin, who moves out immediately.

The Betrayal: Uncovering Kevin and Kim

[26:52] - [30:18]

• Student unrest grows. A young dancer confides in Alicia about Kim and Kevin's inappropriate relationship.
  • Quote: “She started saying that she didn’t like the way that Kim and Kevin were acting and what they were doing was disgusting.” – Alicia [27:00]
• Alicia reviews security footage: physical affection confirms a secret relationship between her ex-husband and Kim, whom they've both mentored since she was a child.
  • Quote: “It was creepy and disgusting.” – Alicia [30:18]

The Levee Breaks: Cult Dynamics Exposed

[31:24] - [37:14]

• After finding out about the relationship, Alicia is approached by numerous former students who reveal Kevin’s far-reaching psychological manipulation. They describe his group as a “cult.”
  • Quote: “They were telling me that they got out of a cult.” – Alicia [31:38]; repeated, [35:37]
• Kevin lied about his resume (claiming to be a backup dancer for Britney Spears), fabricated trauma to trauma-bond with students, and ran “life chats” to mine their vulnerabilities.
  • Quote: “He would shape shift into whatever each student needed him to be.” – Alicia [37:03]
• He created a constant communication cycle (texts, group chats) and responded with anger or accusations if students were unresponsive.

Escalation: Sexual Coercion, Manipulation, and “Light Warrior” Claims

[38:09] - [43:00]

• Kevin took control over how students dressed, looked, and acted, rationalizing it as industry norms.
• The manipulation turns sexual: he gives explicit instructions about masturbation, frames sexual expression as essential to dance, and pushes students (some as young as 13) into sexual encounters with each other.
  • Quote: “He would say that they needed to learn how to masturbate, and he would teach them how to do that.” – Alicia [38:53]
• Kevin claims superhuman powers—calling himself a “light warrior,” demonstrating supposed psychic abilities, and weaving fantastical stories to further control students.
  • Quote: “He would say he was mastering how to manipulate and start fire from his hands.” – Alicia [41:25]

Alicia Takes Action

[43:00] - [44:41]

• On learning the depth of the abuse, Alicia flees to a lawyer and is advised to shut down the studio immediately. With her father, she changes locks and posts a closure sign before Kevin can confront her.
  • Quote: “I grabbed all the stuff... put a sign up on the door saying, we are no longer in business. And then I ran out of there. I thought I was going to pass out.” – Alicia [43:39]

Seeking Justice: Hitting Systemic Roadblocks

[45:12] - [47:56]

• Alicia gathers evidence and student testimonies for the prosecutor’s office. Despite strong stories, the authorities decline to press charges, regarding the case as unprovable or not “serious enough.”
  • Quote: “[T]hey said if he was playing devil's advocate, that I came across as an ex wife scorned who was trying to take down her husband and was jealous of him being with a younger woman.” – Alicia [47:07]

Aftermath & Reflection

[48:33] - [49:53]

• Kevin briefly continues his “cult” out of another space; gradually, all students leave, some apologizing to Alicia for lashing out at her under Kevin’s sway.
• Alicia is wracked by guilt for not seeing the signs but is affirmed by students who say her shutting down the studio finally let them escape.

Revelations and Healing

[50:13] - [52:07]

• Alicia meets Kevin’s sister and discovers that all the stories of mutual trauma (alcoholic parent, abuse claims) were fabrications—his whole persona was built upon lies to gain sympathy, trust, and control.
  • Quote: “He pretty much formed this Persona that would trauma bond with me and match all the things that I went through in order for us to become relatable.” – Alicia [51:54]

The Industry’s Dark Side & Alicia’s New Mission

[53:20] - [54:14]

• Alicia sees Kim—a former student and assistant—as a victim of Kevin’s grooming and coercive control.
• She attempts to return to teaching but finds it impossible; instead, Alicia becomes an advocate to improve safety and regulation in the dance world.
  • Quote: “I want to spark a deeper conversation about the dance industry and how victims of abuse have gone through similar things in a very unchecked, highly unregulated system.” – Alicia [53:45]

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Memorable Quotes

• “For the first time, I felt seen and I felt heard in a way that others couldn’t really understand. And it felt very validating.” – Alicia [08:46]
• “He would shape shift into whatever each student needed him to be.” – Alicia [37:03]
• “He started to encourage them to date each other... He would even drive students over to other people’s houses for them to have sex... A lot of times he would drive students home from dance... students said they felt uncomfortable.” – Alicia [39:31]
• “Once I closed down the studio, it finally gave permission for the ones that were struggling to leave.” – Alicia [45:12]
• “He pretty much formed this Persona that would trauma bond with me...” – Alicia [51:54]
• “I want to help other students, other children feel seen, validated, and then create a safe environment for them to be able to enjoy dance.” – Alicia [54:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Alicia’s childhood & salvation through dance: [03:59]–[05:29]
• Meeting and falling in love with Kevin: [06:28]–[11:48]
• Kevin’s firing & Alicia leaving childhood studio: [14:38]–[16:46]
• Opening their own studio, initial successes: [21:04]–[24:23]
• Divorce and the first rumors about Kevin & Kim: [25:04]–[30:18]
• Students reveal cult dynamics and manipulation: [31:24]–[43:00]
• Alicia takes legal action, shuts down studio: [43:00]–[44:41]
• Failed attempts at prosecution: [45:12]–[47:56]
• Systemic trauma and Alicia’s advocacy: [50:13]–[54:14]
• Alicia’s reason for sharing her story: [54:21]

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Why Alicia Shared Her Story

[54:21] Alicia says she sees her advocacy as a legacy for the children and students she could never have herself. She aims to prevent abuse, help students feel safe and validated, and push for positive change in the dance industry.

“This is my way of taking control of the situation that happened with me and making it into something positive.” – Alicia [54:21]

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Conclusion

This episode is a wrenching exploration of how predatory control systems can hide in passionate, creative spaces—illustrating the ripple effects of betrayal and the courage it takes to confront both the abuser and systemic failure.

Note: This summary preserves the integrity, tone, and key details as shared by Alicia and host Andrea Gunning, offering a powerful resource for those unable to listen to the episode.

Transcript

[Alicia]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Alicia]

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[Alicia]

When it started to go a little too far, he would sometimes show up the studio wearing bandages on his hands. And he would say that he was mastering how to manipulate and start fire from his hands. Foreign.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

[Alicia]

The students reached out to me, and they were the ones who told me they got out of a culture.

[Andrea Gunning]

That's Alicia. It isn't her real name. We've had to anonymize everyone in this episode, and you'll see why in a minute.

[Alicia]

Oh, my goodness. I don't know where to start. Let's go to the beginning, I guess.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia grew up in the 80s in a chaotic home. One of her parents struggled with addiction. So Alicia ended up helping raise her older brothers and. And in a way, raising herself.

[Alicia]

I pretty much had to be the provider, maybe cook food or meals as much as I could, so that was a little stressful as a younger kid.

[Andrea Gunning]

When she was seven years old, her dad signed her up for dance, and it changed her life.

[Alicia]

It definitely saved me.

[Andrea Gunning]

In one of her very first classes, Alicia remembers feeling out of place.

[Alicia]

I was the little scraggly kid in the back. It was funny because one time I went to class and I was wearing jeans and I was, like, mortified because I didn't have my tights or anything.

[Andrea Gunning]

But the dance instructor put Alicia at ease.

[Alicia]

She made me feel seen and like it was okay. And, you know, I was just there to dance and no one was looking at me to try to judge me. She was awesome. And then after that, I was hooked.

[Andrea Gunning]

That instructor became a mentor.

[Alicia]

She stayed my role model all the way through my dance career at that studio until I pretty much graduated high school.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was a classical studio. So Alicia trained in ballet, tap, and jazz. From age 7 on, she joined every class she could.

[Alicia]

It was a way for me to escape what was going on at home. It was my way to walk into the studio and just be somewhere else and be something else. I was able to escape through the music, through the movement. It just became my safe space.

[Andrea Gunning]

When she went off to college, she kept dancing and eventually she began teaching.

[Alicia]

Became this full circle moment of being able to do the things that my mentor had done for me. Give that back to a kid that might have not felt seen.

[Andrea Gunning]

She returned to her childhood studio after college.

[Alicia]

I wound up Venturing back to my old studio that I originally grew up at, I wanted to make kids feel empowered, to make them feel good about themselves, express themselves in the ways that they needed.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia had dozens of students. One of the standouts was a young dancer named Kim.

[Alicia]

One of our students was Kim. I started working with her when she was 12 or 13 years old. I remember her being this fun, quirky, sassy girl.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Kim was incredibly talented.

[Alicia]

She just had this natural ability to her, this natural flexibility that people only dream of. She was always really willing to, like, work hard. And I knew she would go far. I knew she was going to make it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia took her under her wing. That year, Alicia met another dancer we're going to call Kevin. He was Alicia's age, just finishing college.

[Alicia]

Kevin was cute and I thought it was pretty impressive to see someone that could dance as well as he could. He had that natural ability and that natural talent, and there's something attractive about that, like especially seeing a guy dance in that way.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin wasn't trained in a classical studio. He was mostly self taught and he was mesmerizing.

[Alicia]

His specialty was hip hop. So all the traditional styles of hip hop, which would be breaking, popping, locking, b boying, it was something that was new to me, being more of a traditionally trained dancer. And he definitely made it seem effortless.

[Andrea Gunning]

They started off as friends, taking classes, going out and bonding over their tough childhoods.

[Alicia]

He would ask me questions about my upbringing and wanted to know a lot about what happened growing up, and he was very attentive with that. I told him my life story and that I didn't have the best upbringing and how I had to grow up pretty quickly. And then it turned out that he wound up having the same type of family issues.

[Andrea Gunning]

They both had a parent that struggled with addiction, and Kevin seemed genuinely interested in hearing about Alicia's background. Alicia was amazed to meet someone who shared her love for dance and also had a traumatic upbringing.

[Alicia]

For the first time, I felt seen and I felt heard in a way that others couldn't really understand. And it felt very validating. But I didn't pick up on his signals about, you know, getting a little bit more than just friends.

[Andrea Gunning]

After a few months, Kevin confessed his feelings for her. He bought flowers, wrote love notes, and made mixtapes.

[Alicia]

He even got me this necklace. It was like a little diamond pendant necklace that he said symbolized me shedding my last tear and that he wouldn't ever hurt me so I would never have to cry again. And that's when I took the leap. Of faith. And we started up the relationship. He just seemed like this very kind, very sensitive person and he seemed like a hopeless romantic, despite all the mistreatment that he experienced at home. So it was pretty much the same thing as me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin had big career ambitions. This was the late 90s, and he wanted to work with pop stars like NSYNC and Britney Spears. But he was struggling to find long term work. So Alicia brought Kevin into the studio where she worked to teach hip hop.

[Alicia]

I approached the studio owner and he thought that it would be a good idea. So Kevin had a couple of classes to start with and he was great at it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin's classes became a hit. Alicia's student Kim enrolled. Kim had her sights set on becoming a professional dancer. And Kevin saw the same potential in her that Alicia did.

[Alicia]

They started to have a bond and a relationship and he wanted to help her as well.

[Andrea Gunning]

The studio was like a little family. Mentoring Kim and students like her brought them closer. Kevin and Alicia spent every day, all day at the studio. She was really falling for him.

[Alicia]

He would bring out the best of me and he let me be myself. Like I was able to be fun and quirky and he encouraged that. You know, I never felt self conscious around him. He would always look at me in ways that made me feel like I was the only person.

[Andrea Gunning]

A few years into their relationship, he surprised her with a trip to New York and made a reservation at a famous restaurant, Windows on the World. It was on the top floor of the World Trade Center. And that night at dinner, all of.

[Alicia]

A sudden he got down on one knee. And then I look up behind me and my best friend's standing there recording. And he popped the question. He was very nervous, but he said that he wanted to be my partner for the rest of my life. I don't know if I even remember hearing the rest of what he said because I just started crying and I was just overwhelmed with joy. And it just felt like such a special moment.

[Andrea Gunning]

She felt like she was marrying her best friend. Getting married.

[Alicia]

I always pictured having somebody that is going to make me feel safe because that's something that, you know, just growing up with childhood trauma is one thing that you don't always feel all the time.

[Andrea Gunning]

The wedding day was emotional. Even though Kevin had a tense relationship with his family, they all came to celebrate him.

[Alicia]

I started walking down the aisle and I saw him. I became emotional because I could just see our future together and us building this great family and he started getting emotional. So it was just us trying to get through our Vows and being so choked up. I was a little embarrassed by that because I thought I could try to compose myself. And you don't want to have, like, an ugly cry in your wedding pictures. But it almost felt like that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Some of their dance students even came to the ceremony, like Kim and her mom.

[Alicia]

Just looking out and seeing her and some of the other students that were so excited for us to get together, it was great to be able to include them in that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Once they were married, Alicia encouraged him to visit his parents more often. They didn't live far, but Kevin still harbored resentment about his childhood. When he was around his family, he was a shell of himself, and he.

[Alicia]

Would sulk and he would change his whole personality on the way there because he was upset about even having to go there, and he was going to have to put on a fake face and pretend that everything was okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

So they kept their visits to holiday weekends.

[Alicia]

Those were the only times that we would go over there.

[Andrea Gunning]

But when he was at home with Alicia, Kevin was animated and loving. They started daydreaming about raising kids together.

[Alicia]

He always knew that I wanted to have kids and have a family of my own. That was one of the things that we always talked about.

[Andrea Gunning]

They already knew they both loved kids. They were surrounded by them every day. One of their star students, Kim, had become Alicia's teaching assistant, and Kevin was helping Kim get her dance career off the ground.

[Alicia]

So we kind of played the dual role of mentoring her, and then eventually she started assisting some of his classes as well.

[Andrea Gunning]

By this point, Kevin had been with the studio for years.

[Alicia]

He just became this staple at the studio, and all these kids just flocked to him, you know, for guidance and inspiration. The kids loved him. The parents all loved him. But there was one person that didn't quite love him, and that was my mentor. They didn't seem to be clicking for some reason, and I thought that was unusual. They just were not really on the same page.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin's theory was that this older teacher was jealous of how popular his classes were.

[Alicia]

And not too long after that, that's when one of the kids started saying something to their parents about a conversation that Kevin had with them in the classroom.

[Andrea Gunning]

A parent complained about something Kevin said to a student. We don't know what it is. Because Alicia never got the full story. Kevin denied saying anything inappropriate, but the studio owner decided to keep an eye on Kevin. And a few months after that, the.

[Alicia]

Owner decided that he was going to let him go. He said that there were some artistic differences and that it was Time to part.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin called Alicia outraged.

[Alicia]

Kevin pretty much made me feel like they were ganging up on him and that no one understood him. And they were jealous.

[Andrea Gunning]

It seemed like a horrible misunderstanding. And she believed Kevin when he said this was rooted in jealousy, especially considering.

[Alicia]

The parents and the kids were still very supportive of Kevin. They couldn't believe what happened and they started attacking the studio owners, saying to him that he didn't know what he was doing, he didn't know how to conduct business. How can he let him go?

[Andrea Gunning]

At first, Alicia assumed she would keep her job and Kevin could find a new place to work. But for him, this was a matter of right and wrong and he wanted Alicia to be on his side.

[Alicia]

He said this environment was supposed to be my second home and like my family and look how they're treating my husband. So I had no other choice but to support him at that time. So then I had to leave the studio as well. I was heartbroken because here was this community that just felt like such a safe space for me, someplace that I grew up at for pretty much my whole life. At this point, everything that I had worked hard for, you know, now it's all gone.

[Andrea Gunning]

Heartbroken, Alicia turned in her keys and left the studio she'd grown up in.

[Alicia]

At the time, I felt very hurt because I felt like no one really came to me and said anything. Looking back, I realized the only version of the story I was getting was Kevin's story. So of course I'm going to believe him. He's my husband. But he was hiding something from me. Something bigger, something darker.

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[Andrea Gunning]

After Kevin was fired from the studio, his favorite students rallied around him. He'd been working with many of them for years and they wanted to keep taking his classes. The next step seemed obvious for Kevin and Alicia.

[Alicia]

That's when I was saying to him, oh, I always wanted to open up my own dance studio. I decided that hey, now we had the opportunity to create that safe space of our own so we can do it the way that we wanted to. Why not just give it a go?

[Andrea Gunning]

Their own studio. It would be a pre professional program. No expensive costumes or recitals, just dance.

[Alicia]

We turned this pretty empty warehouse, which was 6,000 square feet, into this beautiful studio.

[Andrea Gunning]

They wanted to prepare kids for real careers in dance. And Kevin was perfectly positioned to make.

[Alicia]

That happen since he was one of the only male hip hop dance teachers at the time. We wound up establishing his own hip hop company.

[Andrea Gunning]

They had 100 students. Upon opening, many of his former students put down a deposit to join Kevin and Alicia's new studio, with Kevin being the lead instructor. They needed a plan for oversight and safety for everyone's sake.

[Alicia]

I had observation windows, I had cameras, because you always want to make sure that the parents feel comfortable and feel safe, especially with a male teacher, because, you know, you always hear stories of different things happening, and I never wanted that to ever be an issue. He never wanted that to be an issue. So I always had those things in place so we didn't ever have to worry about that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia was thrilled when Kim came on board to help them open the studio. Kim was now a college student and she became their first employee.

[Alicia]

She started out helping me with the front desk, doing those types of things at first. Then we started to get her some classes of her own since she didn't really have that before. And we definitely became a lot closer.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia managed the business while Kevin worked tirelessly to recruit a hip hop crew. And when the group was assembled, it was undeniable. The crew had the it factor.

[Alicia]

Once we got up on our feet, his hip hop crew started doing a lot of performances all over the area. These kids were really turning heads and winning a lot of different awards and were pretty much neck and neck with some professional dancers on the scene. And they would get recognized because they were so young at the time and people couldn't believe how good they were.

[Andrea Gunning]

The kids in Kevin's crew ranged in age from 13 to 19.

[Alicia]

They were a bunch of kids who came from diverse backgrounds who all were able to rise up above adversity and beat life's obstacles.

[Andrea Gunning]

Within two years, the kids were winning national titles, booking huge auditions, even making it onto TV shows.

[Alicia]

I didn't even expect it to blow up the way that it did, especially around this particular crew. I felt like I was on cloud nine. Things were coming together, so it was just thrilling to be the studio owner. Like, it felt really good.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the chaos of starting a new business, Alicia and Kevin's marriage started to drift.

[Alicia]

There wasn't any intimacy. I was realizing that we were more friends than anything, more like business partners than a married couple.

[Andrea Gunning]

Along the way, Alicia had put one of her own dreams to the side.

[Alicia]

At this point, I am now in my 30s, and I just wanted to go back to the original goal of having children of my own.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Kevin seemed more interested in his crew than starting a family with Alicia.

[Alicia]

So there came a breaking point, and I built up enough courage and strength to have that conversation with him.

[Andrea Gunning]

She finally sat him down and told him that she wanted to separate. She was bracing for his emotional reaction, But Kevin seemed completely unfazed.

[Alicia]

He pretty much just looked at me and said, okay. I'm like, what? How is that possible? I couldn't believe it. I'm like, well, maybe he didn't hear me. Maybe it just didn't hit him. I just couldn't believe it. And then he said, okay, well, what do you think I should do? Just move out? I said, okay. Yeah. I guess I was just still baffled at the fact that he was just so calm about it. And he just said, okay.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin moved out that night, and they stayed amicable through the whole divorce process. It was shockingly easy.

[Alicia]

After we decided to. I almost had a sense of calm come over me, and I started to realize that I didn't need to still be in a relationship with him in order to keep the studio going.

[Andrea Gunning]

The dance students and their education was the most important thing to both of them. There were only a few uncomfortable moments. Like with Kim, it was a little.

[Alicia]

Awkward for her to be in the middle of our split because she was really good friends with him. She just became a little bit more distant.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia felt as though Kim was picking a side, and she noticed that with the students, too. She chalked it up to them processing the divorce.

[Alicia]

But then all of a sudden, like, a lot of the kids were starting to fight more, and there was a lot of, like, tension, and there just seemed to be something that was off.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then one day, one of the younger students came to Alicia to talk one on one. The girl was in Kim's class.

[Alicia]

So I had a student approach me and wanted to talk to me. She started saying that she didn't like the way that Kim and Kevin were acting and what they were doing was disgusting. How could they do something like that? And I really wasn't sure what she was talking about, But I let her vent, and I just listened to her, and I tried to just let her Finish what she was saying while not giving away the fact that I didn't know any of this at the time.

[Andrea Gunning]

What she was trying to tell Alicia.

[Alicia]

Was that Kevin and Kim were together.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the moment. Alicia maintained her composure. She didn't want the student to think she'd done anything wrong by coming to her.

[Alicia]

I just told her, don't worry about it, we'll figure it out.

[Andrea Gunning]

After the conversation ended, Alicia was shaken. She assumed the girl must be confused. Kevin had known Kim since she was 12 or 13. They even had her at their wedding.

[Alicia]

I couldn't even process the thought of them being together. Like, the thought of it just made me sick. I just didn't understand and I didn't know if it was even true.

[Andrea Gunning]

But her gut told her to check the security cameras, so she did, starting with the previous night.

[Alicia]

It was a late night session. Everyone was hanging out in the lobby. And that was the first time I noticed him. He was, like, rubbing her back, but the way that he was doing it, like, very, like, loving that kind of thing. I was like, okay, whoa. So I was freaking out. It made me start to question everything. I was furious. I was nauseated. I didn't know what to think or.

[Andrea Gunning]

What to do at this point. Kim was in her early 20s. Kevin was nearly 40. So Alicia felt like she couldn't do anything about it.

[Alicia]

I just had to maybe even step back at this moment and say, okay, well, we're all adults here. Like, she wasn't a minor or anything at the time, and she was a young adult and what am I going to do?

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin and Alicia's divorce had been finalized a few months prior. For her own sanity, she needed further confirmation that this was really happening. So the next night, she followed them.

[Alicia]

After rehearsal, I waited in my car and I followed them to the diner and I waited there until they finished eating. So I literally sat in my car, like in the side parking lot, waiting for them to come out. And when they came out, they started to embrace, and that's when they started to kiss. It was true. I just couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that this person who I had mentored from such a young age was now with my ex husband.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't just betrayal. It was something deeper. It was a contamination of her whole reality. The past 10 years with Kevin, their business together, it all started to look different.

[Alicia]

There's no words to describe the feeling of him being with somebody that we both mentored. It was creepy and disgusting.

[Andrea Gunning]

She couldn't go to Kevin because now she didn't trust him. She was questioning everything. So Alicia reached out to a trusted former student who was now an adult.

[Alicia]

I asked her how long Kevin and Kim were together and her whole demeanor completely changed and she just let out this big sigh and she said, it's been some time now. It's been probably going on for several years. She said that it was something that was just not spoken of, but it was known. It was kept a secret for so long. But now that I knew about Kevin and Kim, then that's when it seemed like the right time for people to come and start telling me more.

[Andrea Gunning]

Word spread among former students that Alicia knew about the affair, and one by one they started contacting her.

[Alicia]

The students reached out to me. They were the ones who told me all about what was happening.

[Andrea Gunning]

What was happening went far beyond Kevin and Kim's relationship.

[Alicia]

They were telling me that they got out of a cult.

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Every age.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meats World. Parents, let's talk snacks. If your mornings look anything like mine, one kid's trying to pile drive a pillow and the other is trying to zip themselves into a backpack. Meanwhile, I'm trying to sign a permission slip with an eyeliner pencil because that's all I could find. That's why Mott's no Sugar Added Applesauce pouches are perfect to have nearby. These things are clutch and are perfect for moments of stress. Made with real apples, no sugar added and the pouch? Genius. It's mess free and perfect for the car, the lunchbox or after school activities. This is a snack you can feel good about and a good source of vitamin C too. Just tasty applesauce your kids will actually want to eat. The other day I handed one to my son mid meltdown. He took a deep breath, squeezed the pouch and suddenly he was calm. He had a tiny apple powered moment of Zen. Trust me, your future self will thank you Motts. Real apples make real good applesauce.

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[Andrea Gunning]

After she found out about Kevin and Kim's affair, it was like the levee broke. Former students, who Alicia thought had left the studio on good terms, began telling her about an entirely different side of Kevin, one that was completely hidden from her.

[Alicia]

They were telling me that they got out of a cult. A cult?

[Andrea Gunning]

That word hit Alicia hard. It seemed Kevin had gone to extreme lengths to keep Alicia in the dark. Now she had to get to the bottom of what was going on. So she began asking, asking former students what happened.

[Alicia]

And then I started to piece a lot of the story together.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin told his crew that he used to be a backup dancer for Britney Spears and other pop artists, which wasn't true.

[Alicia]

He would pull up a video and basically someone was standing there in the background and he would say, oh look, that's me.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was an incredibly powerful lie because the students all dreamed of an opportunity like that, and it made them want to do anything to impress him. Then Kevin would initiate what he called life chats. He would approach a student after class to talk about their goals and dreams. They would be flattered that he Was interested in them.

[Alicia]

And after that, he would talk to them a lot over the Internet through Messenger. He would get them to open up to him and tell him everything he needed to pretty much understand who they were.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin tailored his influence to each student. He became whatever that student needed most.

[Alicia]

Some people needed a best friend, Other people needed a therapist. Other people needed someone they can confide in. Then a father figure for some, because some of them come from broken homes. So then he would become that.

[Andrea Gunning]

He would shape shift into whatever each student needed him to be. After that connection was established, Kevin wanted to be in constant communication.

[Alicia]

It became like a 247 connection with him. Like, he wanted them to always write back if he texted them or if they had group chats going. And he had a lot of different chats and different side conversations going on all the time. So they never really had any real privacy because he would always be involved. And then he would get really upset if they never texted back or they didn't respond.

[Andrea Gunning]

He made it clear to the students that he could make or break their careers. And when they wouldn't reply to his.

[Alicia]

Texts, he would tie it into, well, if you have an agent, then, you know, you have to be able to respond right away or you lose your job. So then it just became a normal thing.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then he started controlling what they wore and how they looked.

[Alicia]

He would try to change the way they were dressed, and some of them needed to develop a little bit more and change their look or their style or their hair or whatever. He would relate it back to. That's how it is in the dance industry. And then he would find ways to use more of the manipulative tactics.

[Andrea Gunning]

Manipulative and highly inappropriate tactics. Because after he had emotional control over the students, Kevin started talking to the kids about sex and their sexuality. He said it would help them become a better dancer. And keep in mind some of the students were as young as 13.

[Alicia]

He would say that they needed to learn how to masturbate, and he would teach them how to do that. He would show them the pictures and the videos to clarify what he meant, and then they had the report back. So he can tell them if. If they did it right and if what they're experiencing was right. He was able to tie that all back to dance because it would make them able to express themselves. And, you know, it was normal because you wanted to be able to do that as an artist. He said that it would help them to be a more sensual dancer.

[Andrea Gunning]

He started manipulating their romantic and sexual relationships with each other.

[Alicia]

He Started to encourage them to date each other. He would set up different group chats with different people to have them talk about sex and getting together. He would even drive students over to other people's houses for them to have sex so they weren't of age because they weren't driving at the time. So he would drop them off. A lot of times he would drive students home from dance. They would get permission from their parents, and those were the drives that some of them said that they felt uncomfortable in a way where, you know, like when someone's trying to hit on you or trying to suggest something, like, they kind of got that feeling, but they just didn't engage in that. But they felt like if they were to give a green light, something could have happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia was deeply concerned if Kevin ever touched them inappropriately. But when she asked the students about it directly, they all said no.

[Alicia]

He would tell some of them, I know two in particular, that he was their soulmate and that they were twin flames, and they had a deeper connection. Like, he was the only person that would understand what they went through from their past life experience.

[Andrea Gunning]

Past life. Not as in their past a few years ago, but as in a lifetime they lived before this one, One that only he could see, one where they were always meant to find each other.

[Alicia]

He was morphing into all these different Personas, from the good mentor to the peer to, you know, the father figure to the friend, to now, all of a sudden, this enlightened figure, the light warrior.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kevin told the students he was a light warrior, that he had superhuman abilities, that he had a divine power.

[Alicia]

He would sometimes show up the studio wearing bandages on his hands, and he would say that he was mastering how to manipulate and start fire from his hands. Another time, he showed them a video of him, supposedly to turning on a street lamp with just his mind. There were times where he would make them stand outside and look at these lamps to see if they can do it, too. One time, he came into the studio in a wheelchair because he said he was very weak from controlling things with his mind.

[Andrea Gunning]

He also claimed to have visions.

[Alicia]

He would tell them he could see when they were having sex because he can see their auras. He would encourage them to try things with each other, and he was the puppet master making a lot of that happen.

[Andrea Gunning]

By the time Alicia learned the full extent of it, Kevin wasn't just a dance coach, he was a prophet. And she started to understand why the students had stayed silent for so long. Their whole world was tied up in the dance crew.

[Alicia]

A Lot of them said that they've invested so much time and money that they felt like they couldn't leave, and then they would lose all their friends and everything they ever known.

[Andrea Gunning]

To keep the kids quiet, Kevin used threats and intimidation. He made sure that the cost of leaving wasn't worth it. Leaving meant exile. Kevin also made them believe that leaving the crew or breaking his rules would ruin their chances of dancing professionally.

[Alicia]

After they were telling me all these stories, it made me face what was happening. And then I realized, wow, like he is. He's pretty much a monster and he cannot be around these kids. That's when I decided I needed to go and talk to a lawyer.

[Andrea Gunning]

She got a recommendation for a criminal lawyer and drove to his office right away.

[Alicia]

He basically told me that I probably should shut the studio down immediately. So I left his office. I immediately contacted my father. I told him a little bit what was going on.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her dad met her at the dance studio.

[Alicia]

He came and he helped me change the locks. I grabbed all the stuff, like the files and the stuff to contact families and parents and anything I can get my hands on. And it was early afternoon. I remember it clearly was a Friday. And I know he comes to the studio around four, and sometimes he might come a little bit early. And I was literally shaking. And I grabbed what I could and I put a sign up on the door saying, we are no longer in business. And then I ran out of there. I don't even know how he made it to my car because I thought I was going to pass out because I was so petrified that he was just going to pull up and see me and chase me down. Once he saw that sign on the door, I had no idea who he was or what he was capable of.

[Andrea Gunning]

She drove home and a few hours later, Kevin called, confused. When he asked what was going on, she just said, sentence, you can talk to my lawyer.

[Alicia]

And that was the last time I ever talked to him and had any correspondence with him.

[Andrea Gunning]

After she closed down the studio, Alicia braced herself for calls and emails from the parents of her dance students. But to her surprise, she was met with radio silence.

[Alicia]

That's the part that I still don't understand, that no parents really came to me or said anything.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's possible the parents didn't turn to Alicia because they thought she was in on it or at the very least, turning a blind eye. She knew she'd done the right thing by closing the studio.

[Alicia]

Once I closed down the studio, it finally gave permission for the ones that were struggling to leave the Ones that were coming to me saying they weren't sure they wanted to leave. So it finally gave them the opportunity to leave and disconnect from him.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Kevin still had a grip on a devoted circle of students.

[Alicia]

He still had a handful of loyal followers. So he basically had them do all his dirty work. And they were calling me and texting me, telling me how awful I was and how could I do this to them, and that I was an awful person. I was so heartbroken hearing those things, I could cry. Now, actually, the only thing I could say to them was that I was sorry and that one day they will understand.

[Andrea Gunning]

She couldn't undo what had happened, but she wanted to make it right and to keep Kevin from ever doing it again. Alicia and her lawyer took the case to the prosecutor's office. She started at the beginning with the revelation that Kevin and Kim were together.

[Alicia]

And I could immediately sense that he felt like, oh, you know, she's just upset because, you know, the situation happened and they weren't together. I felt like he wasn't really listening to me. After that.

[Andrea Gunning]

She wanted to make it clear that this wasn't a case of a messy divorce.

[Alicia]

So after that conversation, I immediately wrote an email explaining everything that I was finding out. I gave him a list of names and different people that he could reach out to and talk to as far as students.

[Andrea Gunning]

Some students even reached out to the office directly to share their stories, but they never heard back. After a few months, Alicia's lawyer came back to her with bad news. The prosecutor's office wouldn't be taking the case.

[Alicia]

I'm like, what does that mean? Like, I don't understand what that means. Like, how are you not interested in something that seems so significant, especially with kids, involved minors, teens? And he said they only go with cases that they feel like they can win. And they came back and said that it seemed mild on the list of sex crimes to them. He said if he was playing devil's advocate, that I came across as an ex wife scorned who was trying to take down her husband and was jealous of him being with a younger woman.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was stunned. She thought about the students talking to the police. But then her lawyer explained the prosecutor's.

[Alicia]

Office was the say all, end all. They were going to be the ones that would bring about charges.

[Andrea Gunning]

So Kevin was never charged for anything. Even though Kevin was telling kids to masturbate or manipulating them into having sex with each other, the prosecutor couldn't charge him with a crime. And for a few months after the studio closed Kevin was able to keep his crew going out of his own space.

[Alicia]

He was pushing really hard with this new business that he had created with them. And they all had to recruit 10 new people. And if they weren't recruiting that, he was flipping out. And they didn't want that, because, like I said before, if you're on his bad side, you're on his bad side.

[Andrea Gunning]

Slowly, his remaining students began to leave. And when they did, the other students would direct them to Alicia.

[Alicia]

I was able to let them know that they were safe and that they can leave and that it's going to be okay. And one of the students who had sent me the text of telling me that I was the most awful person wound up texting me. And she apologized, and she said she's so sorry for everything that she said to me. And I said to her, like, I'm so sorry. It's not you at all. I was the one that should have been there for you.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia's entire career had been about providing a safe space for kids through dance, a place for expression and growth. Kevin had taken all that was good and pure about that purpose and ruined it. Alicia felt like the only good decision she'd made in the end was, was to immediately close the studio.

[Alicia]

I felt completely embarrassed at the fact that I couldn't see these types of behaviors that were happening right underneath my nose. And I know a lot of it isn't my fault, but it just really broke my heart for them.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the few months after the studio closed, students continued leaving Kevin's crew. It sent him into a tailspin. He moved back in with his parents. Apparently, Kevin was in such a dark place that one day his sister reached out to Alicia. She wanted to meet in person to better understand what was going on with her brother.

[Alicia]

We weren't that close, so it just came out of nowhere that she actually wanted to meet up.

[Andrea Gunning]

The two women agreed to meet for coffee. Within the first few minutes, Alicia realized Kevin's sister had no idea what happened with the studio.

[Alicia]

She basically was just sitting there looking at me, confused. I told her a little bit about the story of what I'd been learning about Kim and Kevin and their relationship. That's when she just started to cry and break down. She didn't really understand what I was saying, and she was like, I can't believe this is happening. And that's when I started to ask her questions about him.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia knew Kevin had a fractured relationship with his family. When they were married, they only saw his parents and siblings a handful of times. Sitting with his sister, it was clear she needed to start from the beginning. So Alicia brought up Kevin's past and his difficult childhood.

[Alicia]

And then I said to her, well, what about your dad? Like, your dad's an alcoholic. And, you know, he was talking about all these times that he was in these fights with him, and. And he even told me about a surgery he had to go have because he had a broken rib from being kicked down the steps. And she said, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you talking about? My dad isn't an alcoholic. Like, he doesn't drink at all. And she's like, I can tell you, like, we had a really good upbringing. We had a good childhood. He had everything that he needed.

[Andrea Gunning]

Back when Alicia and Kevin first met, he told her about his traumatic upbringing and his alcoholic parent. It bonded them together because Alicia also had a troubled childhood with an alcoholic parent. But now she discovered that shared experience was fiction, a long con.

[Alicia]

He pretty much formed this Persona that would trauma bond with me and match all the things that I went through in order for us to become relatable, for us to become closer.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was the same same thing he'd done with the students. He told them whatever they needed to hear to trust him. This revelation brought a clarity about how deeply disturbed Kevin really was. Their entire life together was one lie built upon another lie. The only thing Alicia could do was rebuild a new life. Alicia went to talk to that old studio owner, the one who had fired Kevin years ago. It was also the studio where they'd met Kim back when she was 12 or 13.

[Alicia]

So when I asked him about Kevin and Kim, he said that there were rumors that they might have been together when she was underage. So regardless of whether he did anything physically with her, that coercive control definitely started way back when she was young.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alicia sees Kim as Kevin's victim. She always has.

[Alicia]

It breaks my heart to know that he did that to her, and she was so special to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the years since Kevin and Kim got married and divorced, Alicia tried to go back to teaching dance at her old studio, but it was never the same.

[Alicia]

So I started trying to focus on what I can do to maybe help make the dance industry a little bit better.

[Andrea Gunning]

Today, she wants to help other studios catch what she didn't see.

[Alicia]

I want to spark a deeper conversation about the dance industry and how victims of abuse have gone through similar things in a very unchecked, highly unregulated system.

[Andrea Gunning]

And she teaches Pilates to senior citizens.

[Alicia]

That was a good way to give back and feel like I'm doing something positive while I'm working on trying to make change in the dance industry.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

[Alicia]

I wasn't able to have children of my own, so this is why this is such a passion project for me. Now. I want to help other students, other children feel seen, validated, and then create a safe environment for them to be able to enjoy dance. Because dance is something that is so powerful and it could be such a beautiful thing when you're able to express yourself freely and have a safe environment. This is my way of taking control of the situation that happened with me and making it into something positive.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

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The person that sent these letters out.

[Andrea Gunning]

Was saying, I have proof. So unless you confess your sins and receive repent, then I'm going to release some tapes. Before we end the episode, I have some exciting news. Betrayal will be doing our first ever live show as part of the Virgin Voyages True Crime Cruise. We'll be answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage with Stacy and Tyler from Betrayal Season three as well as Caroline from Season four. So if you have a question for us, please email [e-mail] with the subject line Listener Question. And if you want to join us on the Caribbean cruise, there are still spots available. Search virginvoyages.com truecrime if you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email us@betrayalpost pod gmail.com that's betrayalpodmail.com or follow us on Instagram betrayalpod. You can also connect with me on Instagramdreagunning to access our newsletter, view additional content and connect with the Betrayal community. Join our [e-mail] we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faen, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Caitlin Golden, Olivia Hewitt and Kristin Melchiori. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing by Matt d' Alvecchio Mixing and mastering on this episode by Dave Sayya Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins Betrayals Theme composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Everyone in our Betrayal podcast community knows this sofa stunning story. A single mother, Stacy, falls in love with a charming doctor, Justin, and their whirlwind romance leads to a loving marriage. Or so it seemed. Then the discovery of a hidden camera planted in the family's home by Justin unearths a devastating betrayal. Now our podcast is the subject of an all new true crime docu series on Hulu. Learn new things about this story we haven't heard before. I implore you to watch Betrayal under His eye now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. This is Kate Max from Post Run High with Kate Max. Back to school season isn't just about pencils and planners. It's about resetting your rhythm. For me, that means simplifying my skin care. Primally Pure Soothing mist and serum are my go to's Post Run and Post chaos. They calm my skin without the hormone disrupting junk. Female Founded, Clean and rooted in real wellness. Go to www.p r I m a l l y p u r e.com use code RUN and get 50. This is your seasonal reset.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea, you begged. They listened. After years of customers asking for it, Barkbox finally put together a collection of their most questionable toys. The Bark After Dark collection is for all the booty sniffers, tail chasers and leg humpers. Very spicy, deeply suspect and one that you definitely can't open at work. So however your dog likes to play, there's no judgment here. Join Barkbox now to get the Bark After Dark collection delivered discreetly to your door. And let the panting begin. Subscribe today at Bark Co and get double the Bark After Dark goodies in your first box.

[Alicia]

This is an iHeart podcast.