Podcast Summary: "Betrayal Weekly" – Behind Betrayal with ABC News Studios

Podcast: Betrayal: Weekly
Episode: Behind Betrayal with ABC News Studios
Release Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Andrea Gunning
Guests: John Hirsch (Executive Producer/Director), Muriel Pearson (Executive Producer, ABC News Studios), Mike Kelly (ABC News Studios Lead)

Episode Overview

This episode of Betrayal Weekly offers an inside look into the making of the Betrayal TV docuseries, adapted from the hugely successful podcast. Host Andrea Gunning is joined by executive producer/director John Hirsch and two key partners from ABC News Studios: Muriel Pearson and Mike Kelly. Together, they break down the challenges and philosophy behind adapting intimate, emotionally-charged stories of betrayal for television, discuss audience trends in true crime, and reflect on season three’s standout narrative featuring Stacey, Tyler, and Justin.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of the Docuseries

• Why Adapt the Podcast?

  • ABC News Studios sought compelling podcast IP for TV and quickly recognized Betrayal's potential due to its early success and riveting stories.
  • "It didn't take a lot of investigating for them to find Betrayal podcasts because it was so huge out of the gate." — Mike Kelly [04:13]
  • The partnership with Glass Podcasts came from shared creative interest and a realization that Betrayal stories could translate powerfully to television.

• Determining Podcast-to-TV Viability

  • Success as a podcast is not the only requirement.
    • Stories must have visually compelling characters, strong archives, and participants willing to be on camera.
    • True crime also often demands cooperation from police and investigative teams.
  • "You have to have all those different pieces come together to turn a really successful audio story into great television." — Mike Kelly [04:57]

Emotional Resonance and Audience Connection

• Relatability & Community

  • Muriel Pearson emphasizes how tales of betrayal deeply resonate with the mostly female audience, as many see aspects of their own experiences reflected.
    • "This idea of trust broken, of double lives, of a betrayal of what is the most intimate thing...people look at these stories and they try and see parallels with their own lives." — Muriel Pearson [05:43]
  • The growing Betrayal community and its feedback reinforce this sense of shared empathy and healing.

• From Love Story to Betrayal

  • Both the podcast and TV show balance betrayal with the love stories that precede it, which amplifies the emotional impact.
  • Andrea notes how compelling it is to see the love story unfold on TV, especially through the show's use of archival material.
    • "It's one thing to hear it, but with the archival and how you guys built, especially in season three, with what Justin meant for Stacy and her life...it was so well done." — Andrea Gunning [08:05]
  • Muriel adds that this contrast is what makes the eventual betrayal so terrible and universally powerful.

Challenges in Telling Difficult Stories

• Addressing Taboo or Hard Subjects
  • Season 3’s story (Stacey, Tyler, and Justin) went deeper than a spousal betrayal, becoming a family-level trauma involving a mother, son, and stepfather.
    • "It's not just between a man and a woman. It's between a woman and her son and a stepson and her stepfather...how a family survives." — Muriel Pearson [12:27]
  • The team sought to focus on both the factual events and the intense emotional arc.
  • Ensuring victim autonomy was crucial:
    • "We want to be sensitive and careful with victims stories too, and how they want to, you know, tell their own story." — Mike Kelly [14:08]
  • John Hirsch reflects on initial hesitancy to tackle Tyler’s sensitive narrative but notes Tyler's personal growth and resilience as ultimately inspiring and essential.
    • "It flipped in my mind from being like, oh man, this is scary. This is going to be hard to tell to...let's lean into our strengths here." — John Hirsch [15:27]

Changing Trends in True Crime Storytelling

• Emotion Over Investigation

  • There's a generational and industry-wide shift away from the classic "whodunit/howdunit" approach to a more empathetic, survivor-focused narrative.
    • "People really were less interested in the straight storyline and more interested in the emotional experience...it offers a different bandwidth than just crime." — Muriel Pearson [19:31]
  • Modern true crime, according to John Hirsch, no longer relies solely on investigative beats, but foregrounds first-person journeys and emotional complexity:
    • "It's about great first person storytelling...the investigative beats...become way less important." — John Hirsch [21:04]

• The Power of the Family Story

  • Season 3, for example, isn’t just about a victim/perpetrator dynamic but about the enduring love and repair work within a family affected by betrayal.
    • "There's a love story going on between Tyler and his mother...and how they work that out together because they love each other is...phenomenally amazing and human." — Muriel Pearson [22:18]

TV vs. Podcast: Visual Empathy and Production Approach

• Translating Audio to Visuals
  • Seeing real people as opposed to imagining them adds a different level of empathy.
    • "It's just a different kind of empathy...when something works in both mediums, it's just an absolute home run." — Mike Kelly [24:34]
  • The visual technique adopted for season 3 prioritized rawness and emotional realism — with handheld camera movements and natural light to mirror the authenticity of the stories.
    • "We paid a lot of attention to little things with our angles...to make it look like it's natural light...Just keep making it feel more raw and more real and more connected to the audience.” — John Hirsch [26:08, 27:13]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Universality of Betrayal:

  • "There isn't a single woman on this earth that can't listen to Stacey...that doesn't relate. That is so relatable...it's like that's the emotional access." — Andrea Gunning [11:33]

• On the Goal of the Series:

  • "I want people to know that they're not alone, that it is a universal experience." — Muriel Pearson [27:23]
  • "See that resilience, see that strength...how much power you really do have when you're feeling powerless...I hope that it inspires people." — John Hirsch [28:21]

• On Creative Collaboration:

  • "John, you really have been the most amazing partner...we wanted the recreation to be as realistic as possible...match the rawness of the emotions." — Muriel Pearson [25:00]

Notable Timestamps

• 02:43 – Main interview begins: introductions
• 04:00 – Origin of docuseries idea
• 05:43 – Discussing relatability and audience engagement
• 08:05 – Role of love stories in increasing impact
• 12:27 – Addressing "taboo" or challenging topics
• 21:04 – Trends in true crime storytelling
• 23:34 – Visual storytelling: podcast vs. TV
• 27:13 – Intentions for future seasons and final takeaways
• 28:11 – 28:21 – Muriel and John’s closing thoughts on universality and resilience

Takeaways for the Audience

• You are not alone.
  The experience of betrayal is shockingly common and deeply human; sharing these stories can be both cathartic and empowering.

• Shift in True Crime:
  Audiences and creators alike are moving toward survivor-centric, emotionally-nuanced storytelling rather than purely investigative reporting.

• First-person Narratives Matter:
  Allowing survivors (and sometimes perpetrators) to tell their stories in their own words creates a more profound sense of empathy and authenticity.

• Visual Realism Enhances Connection:
  The visual medium, when approached with care for realism and intimacy, can deepen the audience's emotional engagement.

• Season 3’s Message:
  Strength, resilience, and a refusal to be defined by shame are at the heart of both the specific story of Tyler and Stacey and the series as a whole.

Final Notes

This episode is a masterclass in both the art of adaptation and the evolution of true crime storytelling — elevating stories of personal pain into narratives of hope and healing, while always centering authentic, first-person experience.

Standout Quotes

• “You need an amazing story, first and foremost, but you also need characters that are visually compelling.” — Mike Kelly [04:57]
• “It’s not just between a man and a woman. It’s between a woman and her son and a stepson and her stepfather.” — Muriel Pearson [12:27]
• “It's about great first person storytelling...the investigative beats...become way less important.” — John Hirsch [21:04]
• “I want people to know that they're not alone, that it is a universal experience.” — Muriel Pearson [27:23]
• “By sharing and by digging in and acknowledging what's happened to you...you can take back control...I hope that it inspires people.” — John Hirsch [28:21]

For fans and newcomers alike, this episode provides both context and inspiration, underscoring why the Betrayal franchise resonates so deeply with its audience.