Podcast Summary: Betrayal: Weekly – BONUS EP 3: Andrea Dunlop in Conversation

Episode Information:

• Title: BONUS EP 3: Andrea Dunlop in Conversation
• Release Date: March 27, 2025
• Hosts: Andrea Gunning (Betrayal: Weekly) and Andrea Dunlop (Nobody Should Believe Me)
• Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts

1. Introduction

In this bonus episode of Betrayal: Weekly, host Andrea Gunning sits down with fellow true crime podcaster Andrea Dunlop. The conversation delves into the intricacies of true crime storytelling, the ethical responsibilities of podcasters, and the personal experiences that shape their narratives.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Gunning [02:01]: "Hi, it's Andrea Gunning. Last week we shared Andrea Dunlop's story. On this week's episode, Andrea and I sit down for a conversation about true crime podcasting."

2. Host Backgrounds

Andrea Gunning shares her journey into true crime podcasting:

Gunning describes herself as a "recovering TV executive" with a background in reality TV and documentaries at Glass Entertainment Group. Her transition to podcasting began when a television project involving Kim Goldman, sister of Ron Goldman, failed to secure network interest without O.J. Simpson's involvement. Believing in the story's value, Gunning and her colleague Ben decided to pivot to podcasting, focusing on the experiences of those affected by O.J.'s legacy without featuring Simpson directly.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Gunning [03:19]: "Instead of telling the O.J. Simpson story, we told the story of people who lived it. And so that's how we got started in the podcast space."

Andrea Dunlop discusses her role as the host of Nobody Should Believe Me, which focuses on Munchausen by Proxy and similar deception-driven narratives.

3. Approaches to True Crime Storytelling

The two Andreas explore their shared commitment to authentic storytelling. Gunning emphasizes the importance of focusing on "relatable and important" stories rather than sensationalized, hyperbolic cases. Dunlop echoes this sentiment, highlighting the need to humanize perpetrators and victims alike to foster a deeper understanding among listeners.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Dunlop [05:34]: "I want to meet people in a very average everyday story because that's actually what's happening."

4. Ethical Considerations in Podcasting

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the ethical responsibilities of true crime podcasters. Both hosts agree that interviews should not stem from anger or a desire for revenge, as this can be detrimental to both the storytellers and the audience. Instead, the focus should be on healing and providing a platform for victims to share their experiences in a safe environment.

Notable Quotes:

Andrea Dunlop [07:05]: "It's really important to make sure that someone is ready to have that conversation."

Andrea Gunning [09:10]: "There's so much complexity in telling these stories ethically without exploiting the trauma."

5. Case Studies Discussed

a. There and Gone

Gunning details the podcast episode "There and Gone," which covers the mysterious disappearance of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo from South Street, Philadelphia, 20 years prior. The case remains unsolved, and Gunning highlights how the increased media coverage prompted the FBI to reopen the investigation.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Gunning [10:42]: "The FBI knows that the more coverage they can get of this case, more people will be able to call in and feel like they're doing their part."

b. Betrayal: Season 3

The discussion touches on Season 3 of Betrayal, which features Stacey Rutherford and her son Tyler's harrowing experiences with Justin Rutherford—a trusted family doctor who abused Tyler and attempted to silence him by hiring a hitman. The case exemplifies the complexities of dealing with abuse within the family and the legal system's response.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Gunning [30:02]: "Justin also tried to hire a hitman while he was in prison to murder Tyler so that he wouldn't testify in court."

6. Family and Criminal Court Systems

Dunlop and Gunning compare the often conflicting outcomes between family courts and criminal investigations. They emphasize how family courts can sometimes return children to abusive environments even amidst ongoing criminal cases, illustrating the systemic challenges victims face.

Notable Quotes:

Andrea Dunlop [27:54]: "Courts don't take the steps that you would think in the face of a criminal conviction to limit that person's access to their own children."

Andrea Dunlop [28:22]: "In the Jessica Jones case in Texas, she got a 60-year prison sentence, and the courts did not terminate her parental rights."

7. Mental Health and Deception

The conversation delves into the parallels between Munchausen by Proxy and betrayal trauma. Both hosts discuss how these behaviors are often misunderstood and stigmatized, hindering effective intervention and support for victims.

Notable Quotes:

Andrea Gunning [14:18]: "Munchausen by Proxy shares a lot in common with Betrayal."

Andrea Dunlop [26:20]: "Munchausen by Proxy is not a one in a million thing. The behavior is along a spectrum."

8. Personal Reflections and Healing

Both Andrea Gunning and Andrea Dunlop share their personal experiences with betrayal and deception, highlighting the therapeutic role that storytelling and podcasting play in their healing processes. Dunlop discusses her estrangement from her sister due to systemic betrayal, framing it as a form of death and loss.

Notable Quotes:

Andrea Dunlop [38:42]: "I've really gone through different stages of processing it... it was a necessary one."

Andrea Gunning [40:50]: "Losing my sister or not being able to share in critical moments is a profound loss."

9. Future Directions and Collaborations

The hosts express optimism about the evolving landscape of true crime media. They discuss upcoming projects, including Season Four of Betrayal, which will explore a Colorado Springs woman's experience with a two-decade-long betrayal. Both Andreas emphasize the collaborative efforts between their podcasts to set new ethical standards in the industry.

Notable Quotes:

Andrea Gunning [41:11]: "Navigating the pitfalls of how exploitative true crime can be is a huge job."

Andrea Dunlop [42:51]: "Working with partners like Hulu helps dismantle the stigma around these issues."

10. Conclusion

The episode concludes with mutual appreciation for each other’s work and a reaffirmation of their commitment to telling complex human stories with integrity and empathy. Gunning and Dunlop highlight the importance of responsible true crime storytelling in fostering understanding and healing for both creators and listeners.

Notable Quote:

Andrea Dunlop [44:40]: "We take it really seriously. Obviously, we do the utmost to tell things ethically, but you also have to have a good story."

Final Thoughts: This bonus episode serves as a deep dive into the philosophies and personal motivations behind two prominent figures in the true crime podcasting world. By addressing the ethical challenges and personal impacts of their work, Andrea Gunning and Andrea Dunlop provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the responsibilities that come with narrating real-life stories of betrayal and deception.