Devon | Betrayal Weekly

Summary

Betrayal Weekly – “Devon” Episode Summary

Podcast: Betrayal Weekly | Host: Andrea Gunning | Date: August 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this harrowing episode of Betrayal Weekly, Andrea Gunning sits down with Devon to unravel a complex web of deception, coercion, and emotional manipulation at the hands of an ex-girlfriend, Kai. Through personal journal excerpts, Devon shares her evolution from naïve optimism to deep suspicion and, eventually, self-empowerment. The episode gives a first-hand account of how double lives, hidden relationships, and systematic gaslighting lead to trauma—but also, ultimately, to resilience and healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Devon’s Early Life and Search for Self (04:34–07:14)

• Growing Up: Devon recalls a free-spirited, nature-rich upbringing in the Pacific Northwest, helping on her family’s llama farm and enjoying the safety of a loving, though somewhat isolated, household.
  • “We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard for hours playing and come in when we heard a bell to have a snack.” (04:34, Devon)
• Coming Out: A shift from a conservative, homophobic high school environment to a more accepting college experience allows Devon to come out and begin dating women.
  • “I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore. It wasn’t a big deal. My family was pretty accepting of it, which was pretty great.” (07:14, Devon)

Meeting Kai—The Charmer (07:53–11:07)

• A Lonely Start in the Bay Area: Devon moves for work, starts over, and downloads OkCupid to meet people.
• First Date Magic: Captivated by Kai’s charisma—short hair, tattoos, motorcycle—Devon is quickly smitten.
  • “She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so... I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools to steal many a girl’s heart.” (09:12, Devon)
• A Growing Relationship: The romance is thrilling and slow by design: “I thought that pace was really healthy... a methodical, high trust way.” (09:55, Devon)

Integration & Early Red Flags (11:09–14:05)

• Kai’s Community: Kai's welcoming friend group helps Devon acclimate to her new city and cements Kai’s image as a social, loving partner.
• Roommate Animosity: Kai describes her roommate Melissa as a failed friend—later revealed as part of the deception.
  • “She said that Melissa was also her best friend... had let her down in some significant ways.” (11:42, Devin)
• Exclusive, but Not Official: Navigating boundaries, catching jealousy over Kai’s exes, and discussing their “exclusive” status.
• Romantic Highs: Life feels almost too good: “I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying seeing her. I have to watch so that I don’t lose myself in her.” (13:47, Devon)

Boundary Pushing & Early Deception Tactics (19:02–28:38)

• Kai’s Chronic Tardiness: Always justified; Devon doubts her own suspicions.
• Kai’s Charisma: Good at making others feel special—sometimes too special.
• Flirting with Friends: Incidents at parties and among friends fuel Devon’s insecurity.
  • “Kai wasn’t contributing and Kai said she is really touchy feely and it doesn’t mean anything...” (22:38, Devon)
• Moving In: They take the next step but keep separate bedrooms to maintain autonomy (23:54). The merging of lives intensifies trust issues.

The Introduction of Sam—Escalating Betrayal (26:04–31:42)

• New Friend Sam: Kai introduces Sam as “just a friend”—but the chemistry is undeniable and increasingly suspicious.
• Pride Parade: The three become an inseparable trio; Devon becomes uneasy watching Kai and Sam’s dynamic.
  • “I was suspicious. I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.” (28:06, Devon)
• The Threesome Incident: Under pressure from Kai, Devon consents to a threesome with Sam, eventually realizing mid-act that this was not a first between Kai and Sam.
  • “I remember watching Sam go down on Kai and I just had this like, awareness hit me. This is not the first time they’ve done this.” (31:17, Devon)

Gaslighting, Confrontation, and Escape (36:05–44:58)

• Aftermath of the Threesome: Devon dissociates; is unable to address the betrayal directly, sensing danger.
• Breakup & Fallout: Devon carefully plans the breakup, which triggers erratic and aggressive behavior from Kai.
  • “She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture of us... wrote on our whiteboard, ‘I’ll send my terms.’” (38:25, Devon)
• Discovery of Evidence: A love letter and a video from Sam confirm the cheating.
  • “In that moment, I just started shaking. I didn’t stop shaking for 12 hours.” (39:59, Devon)

Exposing the Pattern—From Victim to Investigator (44:03–51:24)

• Sam’s Perspective: Sam thought she was Kai’s only girlfriend too—revealing that Kai had orchestrated dual, secret relationships for 10 months.
  • “My blood started to boil because I thought that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but I hadn’t.” (44:21, Devon)
• Kai’s Systematic Lies: Kai used Google calendars to keep her relationships separate; told different lies to different people (45:56).
• Connecting with Other Victims: Reaching out to others in Kai’s orbit surfaces additional evidence—at least four, possibly up to nine, women being cheated on concurrently.
• Confronting Kai: Devon and Sam directly confront Kai; she feels no remorse.
  • “It was almost like this chess game. It was checkmate, and she didn’t really care that we figured it out.” (50:32, Devon)

Healing and Reflection (53:06–56:02)

• Accepting Trauma: Devon uses EMDR therapy to process the coerced, non-consensual threesome.
  • “I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it, which was not consensually, which was very high on the coercion scale... I recognized that it was trauma and I did do EMDR specifically around that.” (53:46, Devon)
• Taking Back Power: A subway encounter years later cements that Kai no longer has any power over Devon.
  • “Like this person who I had been scared of, who I gave so much power to and so much control to for such a long time, wasn’t going to try to manipulate me anymore, didn’t even want to approach me anymore.” (54:46, Devon)
• Looking Forward: Devon, now with a loving partner and a baby, has built the life she once dreamed of, refusing to let Kai’s threats define her future.
  • "I found her and I have a six-month old baby. And if I'd listened to what Kai said back then, I wouldn't have and I'm very grateful to have the life that I have now.” (56:02, Devon)

The Lesson: Trusting Intuition After Betrayal (56:24–57:04)

• Why Share Her Story?
  • “I think as women we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along, to get along. This experience was an invitation to really learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of intuition is in my body and I also learned how bad it feels to shove it down.” (56:24, Devon)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it’s almost like watching a bad horror film... and you’re like screaming at the screen, they’re right behind you.” (03:10 & 53:06, Devon)
• “I was trying to get myself to focus on other things, but I was so quickly infatuated.” (09:46, Devon)
• “I loved how she spoke about her friends... she just seemed like she was really engaged and involved in building a life that she loved. And I admired and I wanted to do that too.” (10:51, Devon)
• “Kai had maintained both of us as her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only girlfriend for 10 months.” (44:21, Devon)
• “Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but into my bed and used our sex toys. It made my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.” (48:46, Devon)
• “I wrote, I will have a healthy, loving partnership with someone I love and I trust. We will communicate and seek to know each other deeply. She’s out there. I just have to stay on the path and let the universe know that I’m ready.” (55:40, Devon)

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Timeline/Timestamps of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:34 | Devon describes childhood and homeschooling | | 06:05 | High school experiences and first stirrings of identity struggle | | 07:14 | Coming out and college years | | 08:12 | Meeting Kai on OkCupid | | 09:12 | Devon’s first-date journal entry | | 11:07 | Integration into Kai’s friend group | | 13:47 | Devon’s love for Kai reflected in her journal | | 19:02 | Red flags: Kai’s tardiness and charm | | 22:38 | Flirting with friends at Kai’s birthday | | 23:54 | Moving in together with separate bedrooms | | 26:32 | Meeting Sam at Pride | | 31:17 | Realization during the coerced threesome | | 36:05 | Devon processes the trauma and begins to seek help | | 38:25 | Devon describes Kai’s retaliation post-breakup | | 39:59 | Discovery of the love letter and video | | 44:21 | Sam and Devon compare notes: discovering simultaneous relationships | | 45:56 | Uncovering Kai’s systematic deception | | 48:46 | Realization about the scope of cheating and personal violation | | 53:06 | Trauma processing, EMDR therapy, and reflection | | 55:40 | Devon’s vision for a healthy future relationship | | 56:24 | Closing reflections: the importance of trusting intuition |

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a reflective, empathetic, and candid tone, blending Devon’s narrative voice—rich with introspection and striking honesty—with Andrea Gunning’s supportive, inquisitive hosting. Devon is vulnerable yet resilient, moving from self-doubt to self-respect.

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Summary

Devon’s story is a cautionary tale of how trust can be weaponized by those skilled in deception, and how coercion and manipulation thrive when intuition is dismissed. Yet, it’s also a story of recovery: by turning to her own journals, candid conversations, and ultimately therapy, Devon reclaims power, sets boundaries, and invests in a new, healthy future. Her narrative, bookended by self-aware humor about “bad horror films” and raw confessions about trauma, is an example of how sharing stories can spark healing—and help listeners recognize patterns, set boundaries, and rediscover self-trust after betrayal.

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Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

Hi everyone. We have some exciting news to share. ABC News Studios has turned Caroline Borga's story from Betrayal Season four into a docuseries. You'll get to meet the people involved, you'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and you get to see where this story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you all. Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for Disney. This is an iHeart podcast.

[She's Birdie Advertiser]

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[Kerry Brownstein]

Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen.

[Fred Armisen]

Here the dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, Leslie, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised not just words, but a song.

[Yamanika]

Well, I thought you were all going

[Nora Jones]

to write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julie Pinero]

On Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman.

[Andrea Gunning]

Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man is inside of you.

[Yamanika]

Oh no.

[Julie Pinero]

I'm Julie Pine. Travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita Trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem.

[Yamanika]

Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was? If he got a bunch of, then I should have a bunch of men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with yamaneika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Devin]

Looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist is like walking through the house being like, hello? Hello, is anyone here? And you're like screaming at the screen,

[Julie Pinero]

they're right behind you.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything really quick. Before we get into the episode, I have a small favor to ask you. If you're enjoying listening to the Trial, please take a second to hit the follow button on your podcast app and please rate and review. We read all the comments and your voices help our show improve and evolve. I really mean it when I say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also, if you want behind the scenes content or resources, follow etrayalpod on Instagram or follow me. Itsandreagudding. All right, onto the show. Devin grew up in the Pacific Northwest. Her family's house was surrounded by five acres of land, which made for a perfect playground for Devin and her older sister.

[Devin]

We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard for hours playing and come in when we heard a bell to have a snack.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her family had a farm, complete with horses, chickens, and llamas.

[Devin]

You could sell individual llamas for tens of thousands of dollars. And so my mom started a llama business for income. They would put me in a llama auction with the llama to show how gentle it was. And I would be leading this large animal around as a very small child and just smiling. And I still remember the auctioneer being like, oh, look at the big smile on that child, you know?

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin and her sister were homeschooled all through elementary and middle school. When she started ninth grade, her parents enrolled her in their town's public high school.

[Devin]

I remember walking in and Just beaming at every single person I saw. I think people thought something was wrong with me, but I was just so happy to be around so many people, and I thrived.

[Andrea Gunning]

In high school, she always participated in class discussions. But there was one day in history class that felt different.

[Devin]

We were having a debate about the Supreme Court case between the Boy Scouts of America and Dale.

[Andrea Gunning]

Boy Scouts of America vs. Dale was a Supreme Court case. In2020, the Boy Scouts revoked James Dale's membership when they found out he was gay.

[Devin]

This was like fake news at the time. And our history teacher had us set up a debate to argue for having gay people in boy Scouts and against having gay people in boy Scouts. And I was the only one in a class of 30 kids that was arguing for gay people to be allowed to be in the boy Scouts.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't an environment where Devin could comfortably explore who she was. The message from her high school was, fit in or be left behind.

[Devin]

There were two gay people that I knew in high school, and both left because it was such a homophobic environment. And so I was staying safe by winning people over and not truly being my full self.

[Andrea Gunning]

After high school, Devin started college in a city a few hours away. For the first time, she was surrounded by people that cared about the same things she did.

[Devin]

I got deeply involved in women and gender studies, and I ran the women's resource center with my best friend at the time.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin finally felt comfortable enough to explore who she was and what she wanted. She realized that she was queer.

[Devin]

I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore. It wasn't a big deal. My family was pretty accepting of it, which was pretty great.

[Andrea Gunning]

A few years after college, Devin moved to the Bay Area. She got a job working in mental health services, but outside of work, she didn't know anyone. She spent her weekends by herself. It was a lonely start.

[Devin]

I was just alone in this new city with no friends, and I just remember scrapbooking and day drinking until I got too lonely and needed to see other people. And so I would go thrift store shopping or grocery shopping.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eventually, she decided she needed to venture outside her comfort zone. She was ready to put herself out there. She downloaded the dating app OkCupid, and soon she had plans to meet up with a girl she met on the app named Kai.

[Devin]

I remember walking up and seeing her and I already thought she was cute. I met her by her motorcycle, and I thought that was sexy. She drove a motorcycle and she had this kind of strong physique, which I found very attractive. Had Short hair, a lot of piercings, some tattoos, and there was a mysterious vibe to her.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin and Kai went on a long walk, talking the whole time. They weren't ready for the date to end.

[Devin]

We ended up going into a bar and sitting side by side and talking. The first date was six hours.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin's the kind of person who has always kept a journal, and she has kept them to this day. She'll be reading excerpts from them throughout this episode. Here's what she wrote after her first date with Kai.

[Devin]

She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so, super easy to be around, very dynamic, a good listener, sexy, thoughtful, and I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools to steal many a girl's heart.

[Andrea Gunning]

After their date, Kai sent Devin a

[Devin]

text saying that she loved my energy and sharing space with me. Very west coast thing to say to somebody.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin couldn't stop thinking about Kai.

[Devin]

I was trying to get myself to focus on other things, but I was so quickly infatuated.

[Andrea Gunning]

They went on two more dates that month.

[Devin]

I thought that pace was really healthy. I thought that was a sign that we weren't moving quickly and this was developing in a really methodical, high trust way.

[Andrea Gunning]

Spending time with Kai was always an adventure.

[Devin]

We started kind of traipsing around this city that was beautiful. Riding her motorcycle everywhere, which was very special and fun.

[Andrea Gunning]

Soon, Kai invited Devin over to her place.

[Devin]

The apartment was up on this big hill that had a gorgeous view, and we had a really good time. And she had a roommate named Melissa, and she said that Melissa was also her best friend.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai had a lot of different hobbies.

[Devin]

She was in school for engineering, and I thought that that was really neat. She worked at a windsurfing shop, so she actually taught kiteboarding and windsurfing.

[Andrea Gunning]

The more she saw of Kai's life, the more she admired her.

[Devin]

I loved how she spoke about her friends. She was very fun loving. She just seemed like she was really engaged and involved in building a life that she loved. And I ADM and I wanted to do that too.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai invited Devin into the life she'd

[Devin]

built because I had moved there and didn't have any friends. She was also access to a community. All of her friends were wonderful, and I also saw that as a really positive sign. They were just these, like, awesome, honest, intelligent, dedicated people who are all passionate about different things. And I loved her friends.

[Andrea Gunning]

The only person Kai seemed to have a tense relationship with was her roommate, Melissa. Kai told Devin they used to be

[Devin]

really close, but that Melissa had let her down in some really significant ways. So even though I never met Melissa, I was at their apartment a lot.

[Andrea Gunning]

They were all in their mid-20s. Almost everyone they knew lived with roommates and had experience with some kind of roommate drama. So Devin understood and sympathized with Kai. A few months after their first date, Devin and Kai decided they wanted to see each other exclusively that night. Devin wrote in her journal, the terms

[Devin]

outlined are that we are only having sex with each other and if anything happens with someone else, we let the other know. So we hadn't decided that we were girlfriends yet, but we had decided that we were exclusively having sex with one another.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin noticed that Kai kept talking about different girls she dated in the past. It made Devin feel a little jealous. So she brought it up to Kai.

[Devin]

And Kai said, the reason I bring up exes is to examine what I learned from those relationships. And I took that really well because I'm somebody who always learns and examines my own behavior. And so I actually thought that that was really attractive, that she was bringing it up to see what she could learn from it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Four months after their first date, they were ready to define their relationship.

[Devin]

We decided to be officially dating girlfriends. And that felt really good to me. That felt healthy. That felt like we were progressing in a mature way.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin was giddy. She and Kai started spending more and more time together. Kai went out of her way to plan romantic dates for Devin.

[Devin]

It was summer in this gorgeous city and we went to go see the Indigo Girls up on this mountain and we went wine tasting and we were motorcycling everywhere. We went sailing.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin was falling in love. She wrote about everything she was feeling for Kai in her journal.

[Devin]

I wrote, she is smart, funny, playful, kind, affectionate, exceedingly thoughtful, a badass with a wealth of life experiences. We're very compatible. I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying seeing her. I have to watch so that I don't lose myself in her.

[Andrea Gunning]

It felt too good to be true.

[Devin]

I remember saying, how is it that I get to have such a cool life right now?

[Andrea Gunning]

Hi listeners. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the Betrayal Weekly podcast, and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now stream every episode of Betrayal seasons one through five, as well as Betrayal Weekly seasons one and two completely ad free, plus get exclusive one week early access to all Betrayal Weekly season three episodes with an Iheart True Crime plus subscription available only on Apple Podcasts. Plus you'll get access to other chart topping true crime shows you love, like creating a the Story of Bitcond, Paper Ghosts, Piketon Massacre, Murder Homes, Unrestorable, the Godmother, the Girlfriends, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Nancy Glass]

Hi, I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt podcast. I'm excited to share this latest story with you. It's incredible, and I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of season one and every single episode of Burden of Guilt season two, 100% ad free with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Burden of guilt season three one week ahead of everyone else, available only to iHeart True Crime plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Ben Nadifafry]

Thirty years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City.

[Devin]

Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Or will you trust the people five miles overseas?

[Ben Nadifafry]

This is a story about neighbors turning on each other and what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough.

[Devin]

We reached for a feeling that exists in this city, but we're not stopping, are we?

[Ben Nadifafry]

I'm Ben Nadifaffrey, and for my new series on Revisionist History, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York city in the 1990s and what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to Revisionist the Staten island problem on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nora Jones]

Hey, I'm Nora Jones and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing along is Back. I sit down with music from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy. Really too many to name. And this season I've sat down with Joshua Homme, Sarah McLachlan, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Finneas.

[Devin]

So I went home and I asked

[Andrea Gunning]

Billie if she wanted to sing it.

[Ben Nadifafry]

She immediately made it her own thing.

[Devin]

No fair. You really know how to make me cry when you give me those oceans.

[Nora Jones]

So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing along on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin and Kai's relationship felt like a dream. They spent their weekends roaming the Bay Area on Kai's motorcycle, going to wine tastings and hanging out with their friends. Kai opened so many doors to adventure, love, and community.

[Devin]

She was a fun, loving person. She was always looking for a good time. And as somebody who had been very serious, that felt so tempting, that felt so exciting to be involved in. We were just having a grand time, just really enjoying life. I was just falling in love, happy, and living it up in the city.

[Andrea Gunning]

The only challenge in their relationship was that Kai was often running late. But even with that, there were always

[Devin]

really good reasons for why she was late. You know, there was traffic on the bridge or it didn't feel safe to drive my motorcycle because I'd been drinking, or, you know, I was caught up in a really serious conversation with a friend, and I didn't want to leave in the middle of it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Every time Kai explained why she was late, Devin felt reassured. She often felt bad for doubting Kai at all.

[Devin]

I got in my own head about why was I so quick to assume the worst, you know, like, I just need to relax. I wrote even in my journal, I don't want to be needy if something's not seriously wrong, but I do want her to communicate what's up.

[Andrea Gunning]

They'd been dating for over seven months now. Things were getting more serious, more committed.

[Devin]

We were planning trips together. She got to meet my family. I started to meet her family.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai was crazy about her.

[Devin]

She said all these things to me about how I'm like, the strongest, most intelligent woman she's ever dated, that I was sexy, that she thinks about me all the time.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was around this time that Kai moved out of the apartment she had been renting with her roommate, Melissa.

[Devin]

She and Melissa were having a hard time, and she said that she really needed to move out and get her own place.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai seemed really distraught about the end of their friendship. She and Melissa had been best friends for years before moving in together. Devin spent long nights processing it with Kai. Whenever Kai came over, Devin noticed that she stopped driving her car. Instead, she drove her motorcycle.

[Devin]

When I asked her about it, she said that her brother really needed a car, so she gave it to him. And I thought that that was really generous. Overall, I thought Kai was really generous. She would buy drinks for everybody at the bar or, you know, just do these kind of like elaborate, generous gestures, which was very attractive to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

When they went out with their friends, Kai was the life of the party,

[Devin]

she was getting the rounds of drinks for people. She was good at making you feel like the only person in the room. People loved the attention they got from her, just like I did.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin wanted Kai to be free to express herself, didn't want her to dial back her personality. But sometimes things felt like they were crossing a line.

[Devin]

I just remember how flirty and touchy she was with her friends.

[Andrea Gunning]

When Devin brought this up, Kai always assured her that she had nothing to be worried about. That the flirting was totally one sided.

[Devin]

She told Devin, I'm not attracted to so and so. I don't have a crush on them, I'm only interested in you, but they have a crush on me and I don't want to hurt their feelings and so I'm just going to flirt with them and it's completely harmless.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin trusted Kai, but seeing people flirt with her, it made Devin uncomfortable. When Kai's birthday rolled around, Devin planned a surprise party and invited a bunch of her friends. At the party, Devin noticed that one of Kai's friends was being really flirty,

[Devin]

like holding her hand and like touching her and she was kissing her on the cheek. She kept saying, I love you Kai. She asked Kai to come into the bathroom with her to help her change. And just all this stuff that seemed so inappropriate to me and it really pissed me off.

[Andrea Gunning]

This was clearly pushing boundaries and I

[Devin]

actually wrote in my journal, I was so pissed. But it was her birthday and I didn't want to ruin Kai's day. Kai wasn't contributing and Kai said she is really touchy feely and it doesn't mean anything, especially because she did it while I was there. I wanted to address it, but Kai asked that I let it go.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin agreed, but she told Kai the way she was acting with her friends was really starting to bother her.

[Devin]

I did start to have more doubts around this time, but it still was more positive than negative. I still had more hope that things could be fine and we just needed to communicate better and we could work it out. And these were all misunderstandings.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai and Devin were good at working through conflicts together. They were both emotionally intelligent people.

[Devin]

So I felt good enough about our relationship that a few months later I invited her to move in with me.

[Andrea Gunning]

At this point, they were almost a year into their relationship. Kai moved in with Devin and brought her dog with her. They were excited to take this step, but they wanted to make sure they didn't merge every aspect of their lives too quickly.

[Devin]

When she moved in, there were actually three bedrooms and we each took A bedroom. She had a bedroom. I had a bedroom. And then we often slept in my bedroom. And I wrote in my journal something about, like, it's important that we maintain our separate identities and that we, you know, spend some nights apart.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eating dinner and talking about their days, she could imagine a future with Kai. They made the place their own and hung a picture of themselves in the front hallway.

[Devin]

There was a big canvas picture of us kissing that was displayed in our house.

[Andrea Gunning]

A few months into living together, Devin went on a weekend trip by herself. When she got back on Sunday night, Devin immediately noticed something was different.

[Devin]

The kissing picture was put in my bedroom, and when I asked her about it, she said it had been getting too much sun.

[Andrea Gunning]

This seemed like weird reasoning to Devon, so the next day she brought it up to Kai again.

[Devin]

She actually changed her story. And she had said she noticed that I put it down so that she assumed I didn't want it displayed publicly and that it made her sad.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin was confused. She knew she hadn't moved the picture,

[Devin]

but she was so adamant about it. Part of me started to think, well, maybe, maybe I did. Maybe I did take the picture and

[Andrea Gunning]

move it over here.

[Devin]

And now she thinks that I am not proud of our relationship and she felt sad and so she put it in my room.

[Andrea Gunning]

Either way, Kai assured Devin that she was just overthinking it. She had nothing to worry about.

[Devin]

She said, just know that I love you very much and I respect and value you. I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize our relationship.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai was in school full time and was juggling multiple jobs.

[Devin]

She spent a fair bit of time away from the house. And I remember thinking at the time that I felt like a 1950s housewife because I was taking care of her dog and then we'd gotten a puppy. So I was taking care of both of them and doing my jobs and she was just gone for 12 hours a day. Often most of the cleaning was on me and the care of the house and the dogs was on me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin worked full time, too. It was a lot to keep up with, but she was happy to support Kai in getting her degree and building a life she loved. Summer rolled around and it was Pride Month. Devin and Kai made plans to attend the Pride parade.

[Devin]

We went to Pride with this new friend that she had met that she'd been spending a lot of time with named Sam.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before they went, Kai warned her that Sam was pretty flirty.

[Devin]

She very clearly introduced Sam to me as a friend who was very touchy feely and that I shouldn't make any meaning out of that.

[Andrea Gunning]

That day, Devin and Sam immediately clicked.

[Devin]

I really liked Sam. Super charismatic, kind of like Kai. Very gregarious, very friendly, you know, good energy. Just wanted to be around her.

[Andrea Gunning]

As the day went on, Devin noticed that Sam and Kai seemed really close, especially considering Sam was a new friend.

[Devin]

We were all drinking. We were all pretty tipsy that night.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai and Sam were inseparable. Every time Devin looked over, she saw them giggling or holding hands. Sometimes Kai was affectionate with her friends in a platonic way, especially when she was drinking. But this felt different.

[Devin]

That was one of the first times that I saw their dynamic together and started to feel like something was really off.

[Andrea Gunning]

It made Devin uncomfortable. After Pride, she brought it up to Kai. She tried to set boundaries, but Kai told her it was not a big deal.

[Devin]

She said, hey, that didn't mean anything. Sam is super touchy feely. That's just how she is. She's just that kind of person.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin wanted to believe her, but it was getting harder to put her worries aside.

[Devin]

I was suspicious. I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.

[Andrea Gunning]

After that conversation, Kai was unusually affectionate and supportive. She kept telling Devin how special she was.

[Devin]

All these sweet things, like, you're amazing. Nobody's got shit on you. You're the absolute best I've had by far. I love me more than anything.

[Andrea Gunning]

But her reassurance only did so much

[Devin]

and I started to feel more and more insecure in the relationship.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin wrote in her journal.

[Devin]

God knows that I love her, but I can't keep taking this.

[Andrea Gunning]

The fact that the three of them were always hanging out together felt like a good sign. It's not like Kai was trying to hide anything from her. It felt like more of a boundaries issue than anything.

[Devin]

There was one weekend when we had a whole bunch of friends visiting. So I had friends from across the country staying at our house. And Kai had invited her friends, including Sam. And we all went to this queer club to go dancing and we all got pretty tipsy. And I remember Kai bringing up the idea of a threesome.

[Andrea Gunning]

A threesome? Devin nearly choked on her drink.

[Devin]

And to be clear, the threesome that Kai wanted to have was with Sam. It was kind of poised as, hey, I want to be with somebody who's sexually open in this way and wants to have a threesome. I said that I wasn't interested. I didn't really want to do that.

[Andrea Gunning]

But then Kai pushed back. She said she wanted them to have a new sexual experience together as a couple. That was really important to her. And all of a sudden this wasn't about the threesome. It was about being the person Kai wanted her to be.

[Devin]

And I remember her almost yelling at me, I want to be with somebody who wants to do that. I felt super upset. I just burst out into tears and I ran into the bathroom.

[Andrea Gunning]

This had never come up before and Devin didn't have any time to think it through because Kai didn't want to wait. She wanted to do it that same night. After that conversation, Kai floated away. They all kept drinking. Soon everyone moved to the dance floor

[Devin]

and the next thing I remember, Sam was dancing with me in a very sexual way that wasn't fully consensual on my part. And I felt so awkward in that moment. And I also didn't really know how to say no.

[Andrea Gunning]

Finally, they all left the bar and headed back to Devin and Kai's house. A bunch of their friends were crashing at their place.

[Devin]

We get home and next thing I know, Sam has jumped into my bed where I was with Kai and then they just start having sex in front of me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin felt pressured to join them because

[Devin]

Kai just made this huge deal about like, you're not the person for me if you don't want to do this.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she reluctantly went along with it.

[Devin]

I remember watching Sam go down on Kai and I just had this like, awareness hit me. This is not the first time they've done this.

[Ben Nadifafry]

Foreign.

[Andrea Gunning]

Hi listeners, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the Betrayal Weekly Podcast and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now stream every episode of Betrayal seasons one through five as well as Betrayal Weekly seasons one and two completely ad free plus get exclusive one week early access to all Betrayal Weekly Season three episodes with an iheart True Crime plus subscription available only on Apple Podcasts. Plus you'll get access to other chart topping true crime shows you love like Creating a the Story of Bitcond Paper Ghosts, Piketon Massacre, Murder Homes Unrestorable, the Godmother, the Girlfriends, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Nancy Glass]

Hi, I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Podcast. I'm excited to share this latest story with you. It's incredible and I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of season one and every single episode of Burden of Guilt season two 100% ad free with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Burden of guilt season three, one week ahead of everyone else, available only to iHeart True Crime plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Ben Nadifafry]

Thirty years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City.

[Devin]

Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors?

[Nancy Glass]

Or will you trust the people five miles overseas?

[Ben Nadifafry]

This is a story about neighbors turning on each other and what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough.

[Devin]

We reached for a feeling that exists in this city, but we're not stopping, are we?

[Ben Nadifafry]

I'm Ben Nadifafry, and for my new series on Revisionist history, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York city in the 1990s and what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to Revisionist the Staten island problem on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's everybody's favorite time of year. Girls all over America are spending thousands of dollars at Love Shack, Fancy Kendra Scott, Lululemon, and going crazy on Revolve. Is your hair perfect? Is your makeup up just right? Even if your feet are killing you, it doesn't matter. Your shoes have to look good. No, seriously, guys, it is time for Sorority Rush. Join Daisy Kent, Gia Giudice and Jennifer Fessler and the sorority girls with the inside dirt. This is the only place you get the truth about sorority life because we are telling it like it really is. Before you hit the game day and frat parties, you better listen up. Don't miss Dirty Rush. Every Saturday, you'll learn about the sex lives of sorority girls, confidential bid day rituals, the secrets of initiation, and we'll be live from Sorority Rush all over the country. Plus, we'll reveal what frat boys really think about sorority girls. Dirty Rush is back and better than ever. Let's get dirty. Download the free iHeartRadio app, search dirty Rush and listen now. One night, Devin's girlfriend Kai told her she wanted to have a threesome with

[Devin]

their friend Sam, and I felt immense pressure to go along with it.

[Andrea Gunning]

The next thing she knew, Sam joined her and Kai in bed.

[Devin]

There was this weird vibe where it felt as if it was almost like competitive, like who was better at sex?

[Andrea Gunning]

But then seeing Kai and Sam have sex, Devin had a disturbing realization.

[Devin]

The way that they were acting sexually together, it became so obvious in that moment that that was not the first time that they had had sex, Devon

[Andrea Gunning]

felt sick and frozen.

[Devin]

I can still feel it in my body. It just felt like rocks in my stomach. And if I could turn back time, I would have stood up for myself then.

[Andrea Gunning]

But in the moment, she felt trapped.

[Devin]

At some point, it all stopped. And then we all went to bed in the same bed. And I just remember, like, hardly sleeping that night. I just remember laying on the pillow, kind of turned away from them, wondering what I'd just done, what I'd just been a part of, questioning to myself, was I consenting? Was I not consenting? I was super confused.

[Andrea Gunning]

The next day was a blur for Devin.

[Devin]

I felt completely dissociated.

[Andrea Gunning]

Something was deeply wrong.

[Devin]

I'd seen something, but it felt very intimidating to address what had just happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her gut told her it wasn't safe to confront Kai directly. She didn't have any proof Kai was cheating on her with Sam, just her intuition. So Devin suggested they try couples therapy.

[Devin]

And she did show up for a session. And I just remember crying through the whole session. And my therapist afterwards, in a session with just me, she said, I don't know how much empathy she has. And hearing a professional say that was really helpful to me because then I started to see things a little more clearly. I realized that the relationship was not working for me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin had a feeling Kai would not react well to a breakup, so she decided to have the conversation in a public place. She invited Kai to meet her at a restaurant to talk. Once they were seated at their table, Devin took a deep breath and told

[Devin]

Kai, I really love you. I really tried. I think we both really tried. Our relationship's not working. I think we need to break up. And her response was really short. She just said, like, okay, and then got on her bike and left. It was jarring.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin left the restaurant feeling uneasy. She went back to their house, but Kai had gotten there first.

[Devin]

She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture of us and had faced it out. So it was the first thing that I saw when I came back into the house. She took toilet paper rolls and dropped them in all the toilets. And she wrote on our whiteboard, I'll send my terms.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin didn't know if Kai was coming back. She waited anxiously.

[Devin]

I was really unsettled that night. I know she had left. I didn't know where she went. I went into my room and I brought a kitchen chair. I wedged the chair up under the door handle, and I also brought the kitchen knife in with me and put it under my pillow. There was a part of me that didn't think she would ever do anything to hurt me. But then there was a part of me that really did not know.

[Andrea Gunning]

The next day, Kai returned. They fought about who would move out, Devin or Kai. The truth was, neither of them could afford to move out right away. Devin couldn't get away from the feeling that Kai had been lying to her, so she started looking for proof. That's when she found a handwritten note in Kai's room. It was from Sam.

[Devin]

I actually found a love letter from Sam to Kai that said that she wanted to grow old with her and have their dreams come true. And I also found a video of them making out from when I had gone away for a day trip and they were in our house making out.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin stared at the video and the love letter, stunned.

[Devin]

It was almost like the dissonance that I had been surviving under came crashing together. In that moment, I just started shaking. I didn't stop shaking for 12 hours.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin decided to confront Kai. They had already broken up, but she needed to know the truth about what had been happening between Kai and Sam.

[Devin]

We sat on the white couch, and then I just showed her the video. And then she was like, oh, well, like we were just pretending, you know, we were play acting. And then once she realized I wasn't buying those lies, then she changed it to, that was the only time it was a mistake. That's all we did was kiss. And it was just that one time. At that point, it was just offensive. I was like, do you really think I'm that stupid?

[Andrea Gunning]

After that, Devin expected Kai to move out of her own volition. But Kai refused to leave. What followed was a month that Devin describes as one of the hardest of her life. Kai was trying everything to get Devin to stay with her. She was emotionally volatile, alternating between extreme affection and manipulation. Devin was scared of her, but she was also stuck living with her. She felt trapped.

[Devin]

Kai would fluctuate between trying to get me to stay with her and even initiating sex. And in that month, I felt emotionally unsafe. Physically unsafe, but I also felt sexually unsafe.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eventually, Kai decided to move out. But on the day she came to pick up the last of her things, she had a breakdown.

[Devin]

She proposed to me on a whim and starts, like, crying and then very quickly changes her demeanor into this, like, very angry, cold person. And then I hear this noise and I look out the window and she's smashing her guitar in the driveway. I got scared, and so I locked the door, and she says, hey, I don't have my keys. I need to come in and get my keys. And I paused because I didn't feel safe. And she's like, no, no, I just need to come in and get my keys. And so I unlock the door and she pushes it open. And then she stands right in front of me. And her eyes changed. They got very cold. And she said, I didn't leave my keys. I actually felt chills at that moment. I just. I knew she wasn't safe. And I knew if I poked her in any way, I was not going to be safe.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin stayed calm until Kai finally left. When she was alone, she slumped to the ground and began to cry. She'd been with Kai for almost three years, but below the sadness, there was anger. Anger at Kai and anger at Sam, who she had considered a friend. She decided to send Sam a message.

[Devin]

And I said, I'm so hurt that you did this, that you kind of inserted yourself into my relationship with Kai. I don't know how you could do this to me and pretend to be like a friend to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was cathartic to get some emotion out. When she didn't hear from Sam for a few weeks, Devin assumed that was the end of it. Months went by until one day, Devin got a notification.

[Devin]

I get a message from Sam that says, thank you for reaching out to me. Your message helped me listen to my gut. And if you're willing to, I'd like to meet up and talk about a few things. Because I thought that I was Kai's only girlfriend.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin reread the words. I thought I was Kai's only girlfriend.

[Devin]

I was shocked. What Kai had told me was that Sam had inserted herself. She had orchestrated the threesome. It was all her. She's touchy, flirty, you know, Kai wasn't even attracted to her.

[Andrea Gunning]

But now it was becoming clear that was very far from the truth. Devin and Sam had a lot to talk about. So Devin invited her over to her place. They split a bottle of wine, and for the first time, Devin heard the story from Sam's perspective.

[Devin]

The last 10 months of my relationship with Kai, when we were still living together, and I thought exclusive and monogamous. Sam was also dating Kai and thought that they were exclusive and monogamous. Kai had maintained both of us as her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only girlfriend for 10 months. At that point, the rage just set in. My blood started to boil because I thought that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but I hadn't.

[Andrea Gunning]

It turns out Kai had been pretending that Devin was her ex girlfriend.

[Devin]

Kai had told Sam that she couldn't afford to move out yet and that's why we had different rooms, that we weren't girlfriends anymore, and that supposedly the reason that we'd broken up was that I had cheated on her with my best friend. The audacity of that lie incensed me. I was infuriated that she would make me out to be the villain.

[Andrea Gunning]

Most people, when they're cheating, go to great lengths to keep their partners away from each other. But Kai did the opposite. She brought Devin and Sam together as often as she could. Even instigating a threesome, she seemed to enjoy the power that came with being the only one in the know. The more they talked, the more they discovered just how organized and systematic Kai was in her deception.

[Devin]

Kai had actually synced both of our Google calendars up to her calendar so she knew where both of us were at any given time. So she could figure out when Sam could be over at the house for them to have sex and me not walk in on them.

[Andrea Gunning]

It just kept getting worse and. And worse.

[Devin]

I'd stopped being hurt. I was just pissed.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin and Sam realized they'd both been lied to. So they decided to work together to expose Kai.

[Devin]

I think that that helped reclaim a sense of empowerment.

[Andrea Gunning]

If Kai was so willing to lie to both of them, what else was she hiding? Devin and Sam went into investigation mode.

[Devin]

I wanted to get to the truth. So what I did after meeting with Sam is I actually reached out to everybody that knew Kai and asked if they'd be willing to meet with me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Many of Kai's friends agreed. Devin met with them one by one. Slowly, she began to piece together the full picture of Kai's deception. Kai had been lying to Devin from the very beginning, Starting with the story she told her about Melissa.

[Devin]

They had been living together as girlfriends when Kai had started pursuing me. Kai would tell Melissa that I was a student at her college and she said we were in the same class together and that she was going to go study with me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin had comforted Kai through the end of her friendship with Melissa. But now Devin realized that hadn't been a friendship gone wrong. It was a breakup.

[Devin]

And the car that she would drive was Melissa's car, so. So when it disappeared and Kai told me she'd given it to her brother in this, like, generous gift, she hadn't given it to anybody.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai was following a script telling each new woman she was pursuing that her long term girlfriend was just a roommate. And she told her long term girlfriend that the women she was pursuing were just friends. When her long term relationship crumbled, she moved in with a new woman and repeated the cycle.

[Devin]

I really started to see this pattern that she had been using for years, most likely before even Melissa. What was going on with her was deep seated and cyclical and not going to change.

[Andrea Gunning]

As Devin and Sam continued reaching out to Kai's old friends, they found out a lot of them weren't just friends. They'd been hooking up with Kai too.

[Devin]

She had been having sex with a number of other people while both of us had been dating her.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin was able to confirm evidence of Kai cheating on her with four other women, though she suspects it's upwards of nine.

[Devin]

Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but into my bed and used our sex toys. It made my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai put Devin's sexual health at risk.

[Devin]

I was really concerned. I remember scheduling a full sexual health checkup once I found out. I did have a pap that tested abnormal after this experience. And fortunately it resolved itself after about a year. Felt like an additional betrayal.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin thought back to the quirks in Kai's behavior that she'd brushed aside, like how Kai was always running late or why she'd taken down that photo of them kissing while Devin was out of town. Now it made sense. Kai had other women coming over to their house when Devin wasn't there.

[Devin]

She just had all of these, like, flings while she also had these ongoing relationships. So she was good at this. She'd been doing this for a long time.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin and Sam were so outraged, they decided to go straight to the source of all the chaos.

[Devin]

We actually confronted Kai together. We called her while we were together and she picks up the phone and she's like, oh, hey. Like, no emotion, no nothing.

[Andrea Gunning]

They told Kai they knew what she'd done to them. They knew about her pattern of pretending her girlfriend was her roommate while she courted someone new. All the people she'd cheated with and all the lies she told to cover it all up. They knew everything.

[Devin]

The reaction that I think we might have been hoping for was some sort of remorse or some sort of accountability and just nothing. It was almost like this chess game. It was checkmate, and she didn't really care that we figured it out. At that point, we both got really pissed. We were just chess pieces to her. It almost felt like I stepped out of my real life and I was in a movie about a con artist or something.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai was already onto her next girlfriend. She didn't need Devin or Sam. Then it dawned on Devin. For Kai, this wasn't about love. It was about convenience. Kai had a rotating cast of women helping take care of her needs. It was like musical chairs and she didn't seem to care where she landed.

[Devin]

I think her con was actually like getting her dog taken care of, having somebody who's buying groceries, having somebody who is maintaining a stable household that she could come and go from.

[Andrea Gunning]

Kai would let her girlfriends cook for her, clean up after her and drive her around.

[Devin]

It was about having her other needs met, but it was also about having a very respectable looking life so that she could go out and do the stuff she really wanted to do.

[Andrea Gunning]

While Kai's girlfriends kept her life afloat, she secretly destroyed theirs. Devin and Sam wanted to break Kai's pattern. Clearly Kai herself was not interested in that. But there was one more person that Devin and Sam knew would be interested in the information they'd gathered. Kai's new girlfriend.

[Devin]

Sam knew who her next person was because she'd talked about this new person a lot and neither of us had her contact information. So we actually reached out on LinkedIn. So it was like a few characters. It was like, you know, she's not who she says she is. She dates multiple people at once. Call me if you want any information.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin hit send.

[Devin]

Crickets for months. And then finally I got a message back from her and she was like, hey, I really appreciate you reaching out. It helped me listen to my gut more quickly and end it with Kai. And I don't think I would have seen that so quickly without you.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was meaningful to know that they had protected someone from Kai's cycle of deception. It felt like the natural end of Devin's investigation. Now came the next step, her own healing.

[Devin]

You know, looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist is like walking through the house being like, hello? Hello, is anyone here? You know, and you're like screaming at the screen, they're right behind you.

[Andrea Gunning]

Devin began untangling her life and identity from Kai. She invested her energy back into herself, her friendships and her work. For years, she told herself that the threesome with Sam and Kai was not a big deal and rationalized her own discomfort away. But as time went on, she started to be honest about the impact it had on her.

[Devin]

I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it, which was not consensually, which was very high on the coercion scale. A lot of alcohol Involved my people Pleasing was at an all time max. I recognized that it was trauma and I did do EMDR specifically around that traumatic event. And I remember when she started they have you do a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of activation and it was a 10. My body went back to that place of feeling powerless and kind of trapped. And by the end of the session we had it down to a three. I'm really grateful that I had the courage to go back into it and try to shift that trauma so it wouldn't live on in me with too much power.

[Andrea Gunning]

One day, a couple of years later, Devin was waiting for the subway when she looked up and saw Kai.

[Devin]

I saw her and she saw me and she walked away from me to the next car. And that felt empowering. Like this person who I had been scared of, who I gave so much power to and so much control to for such a long time, wasn't going to try to manipulate me anymore, didn't even want to approach me anymore.

[Andrea Gunning]

When Kai left their apartment for the last time, she said something to Devin that echoed in her brain for years.

[Devin]

She said to me, nobody's ever going to love you like I do. And for a moment I questioned if she was right. Like I didn't know what a healthy relationship looked or felt like. Maybe that was the best I was going to get. And then I just had this strong, strong, no take over my body like always.

[Andrea Gunning]

She used her journal to help her envision the kind of relationship she did want.

[Devin]

I wrote, I will have a healthy, loving partnership with someone I love and I trust. We will communicate and seek to know each other deeply. She's out there. I just have to stay on the path and let the universe know that I'm ready.

[Andrea Gunning]

It's been over a decade since Devin's relationship with Kai. Today, Devin has that loving partnership she imagined.

[Devin]

I found her. I found her and I have a six month month old baby. And if I'd listened to what Kai said back then, I wouldn't have and I'm very grateful to have the life that I have now.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

[Devin]

It takes a lot for me to get to a place of anger, but I will have my own back. When it comes down to it, I think as women we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along, to get along. This experience was an invitation to really learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of intuition is in my body and I also learned how bad it feels to shove it down.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

[Devin]

I just felt like all the breath had been stolen out of my body. How do we have these completely different stories?

[Andrea Gunning]

Do I have my own story wrong? If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please email betrayalpil podmail.com that is betrayalpodmail.com Please note that we are not a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local help or dial 911. Please contact organizations that offer immediate support. In our show Notes, we've included a list of US based resources. You can follow us on Instagram, betrayalpod or find me itsandreagunning to access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our [e-mail] we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and Review review betrayal 5 star reviews Go a long way. Big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also also produced by Ben Federman. Our Associate producer is Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melchuri. Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt D'. Albicchio. Betrayal's Theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Fred Armisen]

Honestly, Honestly, Honestly.

[Yamanika]

No one wants to think about hiv, but there are things that everyone can do to help prevent it. Things like prep. PREP stands for Pre Exposure Prophylaxis and it means routinely taking prescription medicine before you're exposed to HIV to help reduce your chances of getting it. Prep can be about 99% effective when taken as prescribed. It doesn't protect against other STIs, though, so be sure to use condoms and other healthy sex practices. Ask a healthcare provider about all your prevention Options and visit findoutaboutprep.com to learn more.

[Fred Armisen]

Sponsored by Gilead Hey Portlandia fans, Kerry

[Kerry Brownstein]

Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.

[Fred Armisen]

The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

[Kerry Brownstein]

We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle MacLachlan, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Kerry Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song.

[Yamanika]

Well, I thought you were all going

[Nancy Glass]

to write a song.

[Kerry Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Julie Pinero]

On Solita we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman.

[Andrea Gunning]

Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man is inside of you.

[Yamanika]

Oh no.

[Julie Pinero]

I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem.

[Yamanika]

Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was? If he got a bunch of of women, then I should have a bunch of men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem with Yamaneka on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.