EP 13 - Dr. Kerry, Part 2

Summary

Betrayal: Weekly – Episode 13: Dr. Kerry, Part 2

Episode Overview

In Episode 13 of Betrayal: Weekly, host Andrea Gunning delves deeper into the harrowing story of Carrie McAvoy, a clinical psychologist whose life unravelled after marrying Cesar, a man whose façade of charm concealed dark secrets. This episode, titled "Dr. Kerry, Part 2," explores the complexities of trust, deception, and resilience as Carrie navigates the treacherous aftermath of discovering her husband's true nature.

Carrie's Initial Relationship with Cesar

Carrie's journey begins soon after the tragic death of her first husband, Brad. At 51, seeking closure and companionship, Carrie embarks on a whirlwind romance with Cesar. Their relationship promised adventure and a fresh start, leading Carrie to make significant life changes:

Carrie [03:35]: "I felt like I was trying to build on the best I had with Brad, but make it better."

Together, they planned to relocate to the Yucatan Peninsula, investing emotionally and financially in a new business venture renting vacation properties. Their relationship seemed harmonious, with both partners contributing equally to their shared goals.

Honeymoon Discrepancies

The facade began to crack during their honeymoon in Jamaica. Despite Cesar’s initial assurances of fidelity, signs of his deceit emerged ominously on the first night:

Carrie [06:53]: "I hear the TV turn on. I'm thinking, well, that's a little weird. That's not really the focus of the honeymoon night."

Carrie noticed Cesar watching pornography, a habit he had previously denied. This revelation left her feeling humiliated and questioning the integrity of their relationship. The tension simmered until they agreed to set boundaries, such as putting away their phones to focus on each other.

Crisis and Treatment Attempts

The honeymoon’s serenity was short-lived. On the last day, Carrie received alarming text messages from an unknown woman, hinting at Cesar's infidelity and financial manipulations:

Carrie [11:48]: "I've been dating you for the past three months. Is that your sunglass case in the car?"

Conflicted and distressed, Carrie sought professional help, leveraging her background in psychology to secure a three-day intensive couples' treatment program. While Cesar showed a temporary commitment to change, Carrie’s concerns persisted, especially as Cesar failed to attend follow-up therapy sessions, deepening her mistrust.

Medical Emergency and Family Crisis

Amidst the marital turmoil, Carrie received devastating news about her son Cameron's health. Diagnosed with leukemia, she rushed back to the United States to support her family. This crisis highlighted Cesar's true priorities, as he displayed a lack of concern for Carrie's son's well-being:

Carrie [30:10]: "He says, I'm not staying. I can tell already."

Cesar’s indifference and continued deceit underscored the depth of his betrayal, pushing Carrie further into isolation and despair.

Increasing Betrayal and Confrontation

As Cesar’s deceit grew, so did Carrie’s determination to uncover the truth. Discovering an Ashley Madison account linked to Cesar, Carrie confronted him:

Carrie [40:15]: "I used to think that you were a good guy who sometimes wore a monster mask. But what I realized is that you're actually a monster who sometimes wears a good guy mask."

This confrontation marked a turning point, revealing Cesar's manipulative nature and solidifying Carrie's resolve to end the toxic relationship.

Divorcing Cesar

The final stages of Carrie's ordeal involved a bitter divorce process. Despite her efforts to gather evidence proving her financial contributions, Mexican law favored an equal split of their joint assets. Faced with legal hurdles and Cesar’s relentless pursuit of his ex-wife Maria, Carrie felt trapped:

Carrie [37:16]: "I'm speechless, like, floored. I feel like I don't know him. This is another level of a stranger."

Determined not to let Cesar exploit Brad's life insurance, Carrie sought innovative legal strategies, ultimately negotiating a settlement that limited her financial loss, albeit far from her initial demands.

Final Revelations and Conclusion

In the aftermath, Carrie reflected on the physical and emotional toll of her marriage. The severe health issues she experienced during her time with Cesar—ranging from unexplained vomiting to white lines on her nails—remained unresolved medically but were emblematic of the chronic stress inflicted by their relationship.

Through therapy and support groups, Carrie began to understand the psychological manipulation she endured, identifying patterns of narcissistic abuse and coercive control. Her professional insight as a psychologist provided a lens through which she could dissect her experiences, revealing how deeply her past traumas influenced her vulnerability to Cesar’s deception.

Carrie [45:51]: "They use the same tactics that cult leaders use. It's like a connection on fear."

Carrie's healing journey culminated in writing her book, Love You More, serving both as a cathartic release and a guide for others facing similar betrayals. Her story emphasizes that no one is immune to deception, regardless of their background or expertise.

Carrie [50:38]: "If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone."

Notable Quotes

• Carrie on Discovering Deceit:

  "I used to think that you were a good guy who sometimes wore a monster mask. But what I realized is that you're actually a monster who sometimes wears a good guy mask." [40:15]

• Carrie Reflecting on Psychological Manipulation:

  "They consider a narcissistically abusive relationship a cult of two, really the same tactics that cult leaders use." [45:51]

• Carrie on Healing and Support:

  "I'm a psychologist. Everyone somehow assumes that psychologists are like above human. Superhuman. We should know." [48:22]

Insights and Conclusions

Carrie's story is a poignant exploration of how vulnerability, combined with past trauma, can make even the most self-aware individuals susceptible to manipulation and deceit. Her journey underscores the importance of self-awareness, external support, and the courage to confront uncomfortable truths. Betrayal: Weekly sheds light on the invisible forces that govern trust and the profound impact betrayal can have on one's life, while also highlighting the resilience required to overcome such profound personal challenges.

Closing Thoughts

Through Carrie's narrative, Andrea Gunning masterfully illustrates the intricate dynamics of betrayal, offering listeners a compelling case study in deceit, recovery, and the unyielding quest for truth. This episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope, reminding us that even in the darkest times, the human spirit's capacity for healing and growth remains unbroken.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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Black Friday is coming. And for the adults in your life who love the coolest toys, well, there's something for them this year too. Bartisian is the premier craft cocktail maker that automatically makes more than 60 seasonal and classic cocktails each in under 30 seconds at the push of a button. And right now Bartisian is having a huge site wide sale. You can get $100 off any cocktail maker or cocktail maker bundle when you spend $400 or more. So if the cocktail lover in your life has been good this year or the right kind of bad, get them Bartesian at the push of a button. Make bar quality Cosmopolitans, Martinis, Manhattans and more all in just 30 seconds. All for 100 off. Amazing toys aren't just for kids. Get 100 off a cocktail maker when you spend 400 through Cyber Monday. Visit bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot.

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[Carrie]

Clock's ticking.

[Detective Alex Cross]

You think you can stop him? I know I can. Cuz I know him better than he knows himself. Cross a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now.

[Carrie]

And then I leaned forward and whispered to him, I used to think that you were a good guy who sometimes wore a monster mask. But what I realized that you're actually a monster who sometimes wears a good guy mask. He goes absolutely white and he starts to sweat, and then he whispers, I'm glad you know.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. After the death of her husband, Brad, Kerry McAvoy retired early from her career as a clinical psychologist. At the age of 51, she started a whirlwind relationship with Cesar. He showered her with affection and brought.

[Narrator]

Her into his Mexican culture.

[Andrea Gunning]

It would be a second marriage that promised adventure and expanded her horizons. With all three of her sons grown, she and Cesar decided to start a new life together in Mexico. So she sold her house in the US and packed her bags.

[Carrie]

You're basically consolidating a whole life accumulated of all my adult life, down to a few. Like, we took 10 pieces of luggage. That's it.

[Andrea Gunning]

They planned to make a living down there by renting vacation properties in the Yucatan Peninsula. Crystal blue waters, white sand beaches. It was the life Brad wanted for her.

[Carrie]

I felt like I was trying to build on the best I had with Brad, but make it better.

[Andrea Gunning]

She and Cesar became 5050 owners in their new business and bought four rental properties together, all bankrolled by Carrie.

[Carrie]

So the value of Brad's life insurance has now been spent on properties.

[Andrea Gunning]

But the week before their wedding, Cesar made a shocking disclosure.

[Carrie]

He starts to cry, and he says, it just hit me because we're going to get married five days and I'm still married. We can't get married this week. And I said, what?

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar had an explanation, and he said.

[Carrie]

That last marriage was so bad, so contentious, that when I got out, I literally put it behind me and I forgot I'm married to her. I never finalized it. Even though we've not been living together for two years, I'm not divorced.

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar's last marriage was a roller coaster. When he finally ended things, she literally refused to let him go.

[Carrie]

They described how she had clung to his feet as he tried to get out of the house. And he said it was really traumatic, and he just put it behind him. I've repressed stuff. I've forgot stuff. I can see how that can happen, but I'm not going to be intimate with somebody who's married now that I know I'm Horrified. Like, speechless. And feel so humiliated, I don't even know what to say. This puts it in a different category.

[Andrea Gunning]

But she had already invested so much emotionally and financially in this new life with him. Too much to let one piece of paper derail their plans. Plus, he was adamant that he would get it sorted out and they'd be able to get married the following month. So, reluctantly, Carrie let it go.

[Carrie]

We got up and had a nice next day together and sort of moved on.

[Andrea Gunning]

And his divorce did go through a month later. After that, he and Carrie officially tied the knot.

[Carrie]

So get married. It's a beautiful wedding. And then we plan a honeymoon a month later.

[Andrea Gunning]

In a nod to Brad's legacy, she and Cesar went to Jamaica for their honeymoon. They stayed in a new part of the island. It was a full circle moment for Carrie, a reminder of how far she'd come in the two years since Brad passed away.

[Carrie]

We get to Jamaica, we check in, and that night we have a great dinner together. Kind of romantic. And we're walking back to the hotel room, and I'm excited because I bought something special. We get into the room, he flops down on the bed, and I go into the bathroom to change into something sexy.

[Andrea Gunning]

Starting with night one, their honeymoon did not go to plan.

[Carrie]

I hear the TV turn on. I'm thinking, well, that's a little weird. That's not really the focus of the honeymoon night. And I come out and I pose in front of the tv. You know, sort of like I'm better looking than the tv. And he actually almost cranes his neck around me. And I'm stunned. I can't believe that he did that. And I'm now feeling underdressed, overexposed, and just. I can feel the goosebumps rising on my body from the chill. He says, just come up next to me. He passed the bed. Come up next to me. I want to watch this, okay? So I do. And I'm tired. It's been a long day traveling. And I doze off, and I don't even remember falling asleep, but I fall asleep and I come to, and I can't tell how much time has passed, but the TV is still playing and he's on his phone. I find that kind of odd. And I'm curious why he's so interested on his phone. And as I'm trying to, like, crane my neck without really letting him know that I'm awake, I see that he's watching something. And at first my eyes are really blurry because I'm just waking up and Then I can tell he's watching pornography. And I'm thinking, okay, you opted out of having a moment with me to watch pornography. That is soul crushing.

[Andrea Gunning]

Early on in their relationship, she asked Cesar if he watched pornography. He told her he didn't. Now, on their honeymoon, she saw that he did. She observed him for another moment, Caesar still not noticing that she had woken up.

[Carrie]

And while I'm watching him watch this, there's a text that comes in. And he opens the text box and he responds. And then he looks for a photo. He sends a quick photo of himself. Then she sends a photo back of her. I mean, they're just like normal photos. It wasn't like sexting. But on the other hand, I'm thinking, my new husband is sending a photo of himself to another woman. No, no, no. You don't do that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Even though they were just selfies, it felt strange. And he was sending them to a woman she'd never heard of before.

[Carrie]

So I make like I'm waking up. He then plays along. Oh, it's so wonderful you're awake. Oh, I love you so much. And instead of, like, pulling me into an embrace to kiss me, pull me into something intimate. He starts to touch me like he's doing something to me, but we're not doing it really together. And this just on the tails of what I just saw feels awful. Like, the last thing I want to be doing. So I feel like I was, like, trying to scoot away from him, and I just said the same thing that he said to me. Come sit next to me. I'm really tired. Let's just sleep tonight. It's been a lot. It's a long day. So he does we fall asleep.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Carrie did not fall asleep. It was the first night of their honeymoon, and she was lying awake, staring.

[Carrie]

At the ceiling, feeling really hurt and shocked. Like there needs to be limits in this relationship, and that's not an okay kind of relationship.

[Andrea Gunning]

She decided to address what she'd seen over dinner.

[Carrie]

I said, hey, I noticed you're on your phone. And I noticed you're watching a video and that also you're texting some woman and you sent her a photo of yourself. I'm not okay with that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then Cesar became very quiet.

[Carrie]

He just kind of stays stiff, like, not okay. We have dinner, we're not really talking, and we walk back to our hotel room. He stopped and he stood in the doorway, and he says, I'm gonna be heading out. I'll be back in a couple hours. And he turns around, and the Door shuts. I watch the door shut and I'm aghast. Like mouth dropped, shocked. And I think to myself, this is punishment. He's punishing me.

[Andrea Gunning]

She spent the next few hours pacing the hotel room hoping she was wrong, hoping he just needed time to cool off.

[Carrie]

He comes in a couple hours later and I'm tense. I'm like, have no idea what mindset he's going to be in. And he goes, hey, let's go out to the pool. Let's go swimming. And I said, okay. And he holds my hand as we walk to the pool. And we get out there. He says, look at the sky. The moon's out tonight. Remember the night I got engaged with you? The moon was out that night. And they said couples shouldn't fight. And you're right. I shouldn't have that kind of relationship with a woman. That's inappropriate. I'm really sorry. Why don't we put the phones away for the rest of the trip and just focus on us. And I start to cry and I feel, oh, he gets it. We're on the same page. This is going to be good. We make a big deal the next day. Putting the phones away. The next seven, eight days are great.

[Andrea Gunning]

Until the last day of the honeymoon. It was 4am and Carrie woke up to a notification on her phone.

[Carrie]

I can see on my phone that there's a text message from a stranger from a woman. And she writes, so you're married to Cesar. I guess the joke's just not on me. It's on you too. I've been dating you for the past three months. Then she proceeds to start to describe. Is that your sunglass case in the car? It's floral. Are you the person that called him at 3am in the morning a few months ago? Because I was with him. I was in bed beside him.

[Andrea Gunning]

That was her sunglasses case. And they were in a long distance relationship before this. And Carrie knew she had called him late sometimes with Cesar asleep next to her, she began to panic. Was this woman telling the truth?

[Carrie]

As I'm laying there, I literally had the flash. I don't know him. He's a stranger. I went into the bathroom and my body just dumped. I was sick. I was sick. What do I do? My house is sold. My car is gone. I have property now in Mexico that expects me to open. I'm mid visa process. I have to finish this or I lose all that effort. And I'm literally in transition as if I'm a wire artist and I let go of one wire And I'm jumping to the next and I'm trying to grab and I'm mid jump. And I'm realizing everything that I thought I was building on didn't exist.

[Andrea Gunning]

She shook her new husband awake and showed him the messages.

[Carrie]

I say to Caesar, Caesar, Caesar. A woman wrote me. She says, she knows you. His first reaction was, stop reading that, Stop reading that. And my thought was, you know, you know her. You know what I'm talking about. I fled the room. I split for the ocean and went down to the sand. And I started circling, literally circling. It was early, like 6am 6:30. And there was a runner who run past me. I'm not just look like a crazy woman. Like, I don't know what to do. I'm mid jump. I'm in transition. I have no home in the United States. I don't know what to do here.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she called a close friend who, like her, also worked in mental health.

[Carrie]

And she says, carrie, I think he's traumatized. I think there's something else going on. I really suggest that you go back and talk to him. I'm thinking, okay, she knows him. In fact, she's the person that married us. Maybe there's something more here. Plus, she's a therapist. So I go back in and I get into the room and he's standing there white, shaking. And he just looked at me and he said, I just wanted to know what it felt like to have an affair. And then he said, you know, I have problems because I've told you that I've came from a troubled home and that there have been issues. And I don't know why I did it. I know it was dumb, but I don't know why I did that.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then he asked for her help. He felt like his behavior was out of control and needed professional support. In fact, he had asked his ex wives for their help too.

[Carrie]

And they didn't believe me. They laughed at me.

[Andrea Gunning]

If anyone could help him, it was Carrie. She believed in recovery.

[Carrie]

I also, as a psychologist, really believed in the capacity of people to change. Why would I spend my whole life doing what I did if I didn't believe people could actually have a conversion experience?

[Andrea Gunning]

As soon as the honeymoon ended, Carrie started looking for a psychologist, a specialist who could help with trauma, infidelity and deception. And she got them an appointment the very next day.

[Carrie]

And she sees us, she says, carrie's issues are really big. He needs residential care. And I'm thinking, residential care, we're moving. Plus, who's going to pay for that? This is not covered by insurance and he needs months. I worked in the system, I know how much it costs for psychiatric care. This is going to add up to probably close to $100,000 in treatment costs.

[Andrea Gunning]

Instead of long term residential care, they plan for a three day intensive program for couples in crisis and they flew there right away.

[Carrie]

So we walk into the intensive program and it was built on accountability model and the focus is more of what are you going to do? What's the reality of your situation? Do you have a plan in place? They're trying to help us really think this through.

[Andrea Gunning]

Although the program was meant for couples to attend together where both individuals are promised treatment and support, Carrie felt like her pain wasn't being seen.

[Carrie]

But we go through the three days and it becomes really clear to me that I'm invisible here. This treatment's about him. And yet I feel like my whole world's been torn apart, that I've been shattered. There's two people here. Yes, he was the one who acted out, but I'm the one who's suffering the consequences. What about me?

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar left the program feeling clear headed and committed to Carrie. He had an accountability plan and an outpatient counselor to check in with him every week. But Carrie felt more confused than ever.

[Carrie]

We walk out of the program after three days and I feel like, well, he has a better direction. He seems helped, but I'm now more scared than ever and I'm going into a country that I don't think has this kind of care available. All I know is now I don't know how much I don't know because that's what they did. Tell me this is like a problem, like an iceberg. You just saw a tip, but you don't know how deep this goes or how big this is. So all that you did for me is to let me know there's a whole lot more to this that you don't know. And I don't know what to do. I'm in a mid leap and I don't know what I'm in for.

[Narrator]

Attention parents and grandparents. Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventure that will.

Last all year long.

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Black Friday is coming. And for the adults in your life who love the coolest toys, well, there's something for them this year too. Bartisian is the premier craft cocktail maker that automatically makes more than 60 seasonal and classic cocktails each in under 30 seconds at the push of a button. And right now Bartisian is having a huge site wide sale. You can get $100 off any cocktail maker or cocktail maker bundle when you spend $400 or more. So if the cocktail lover in your life has been good this year or the right kind of bad, get them Bartesian at the push of a button. Make bar quality Cosmopolitans, Martinis, Manhattan and more all in just 30 seconds. All for 100 off. Amazing toys aren't just for kids. Get 100 off a cocktail maker when you spend 400 through Cyber Monday. Visit bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Narrator]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Betrayal after leaving the three day treatment program, Carey and Cesar continued with their plan to move into a new apartment in Playa del Carmen and get their business off the ground.

[Carrie]

We move into our first apartment and we furnish it. We're watching the construction of the next two and trying to get the business going, you know, get our properties listed on Airbnb.

[Andrea Gunning]

Besides starting their business, their main priority was continuing Caesar's treatment. And it seemed to be working for.

[Carrie]

Him in that period of time. It actually gets good, it gets quiet. You know, he's working a program, he does his weekly thing, I do my weekly thing. It feels like a partnership. We're buying furniture together, we're setting up a house. Kids are coming in for Christmas.

[Andrea Gunning]

With Cesar's commitment to recovery, Carrie felt validated in her decision to give him another chance and get him help. He was really trying. Their life in Mexico was finally coming together. At night, they would go up to their penthouse roof and look at the stars.

[Carrie]

And the stars are out and there's actually even falling stars. And we're talking to each other and kissing each other and talking about how beautiful this is and have like a little blanket on that patio, just really, really lovely.

[Andrea Gunning]

After a few months, their business started to take off.

[Carrie]

The properties are now coming online. The business is off to a good start, and I feel really optimistic about all of this.

[Andrea Gunning]

With their relationship on the mend, they were proving to be strong business partners. They settled into a daily routine.

[Carrie]

He would set the alarm super early in the morning, then we would read something together, talk to each other, and then we'd get dressed and get going for our day. We'd run from appointment to appointment, but there's another half of the company that had to be run and that is the customer end who's making all the emails corresponding with guests. So I'd manage that at night and then we'd do all the businesses together in the day. So basically I was like doing two jobs.

[Andrea Gunning]

One day while running around town to.

[Carrie]

Manage the properties, I start to suddenly vomit. I mean, like I'm throwing up saliva and it's really strange. I'd never seen anything like it before. He calmly hands me a grocery bag to vomit in. And then we never talk about it again. We just went on for the rest of the day.

[Andrea Gunning]

And then she began noticing other symptoms.

[Carrie]

I have really severe diarrhea, real strange diarrhea that I'd never seen before. It's water, it's clear water. It frightens me because I've never seen this before. And I had white lines like you hit your fingernails with a hammer. I was searching for what causes white lines across all the fingernails. They're called meese lines.

[Andrea Gunning]

And it only got worse.

[Carrie]

My toenails were falling off and my urine was now dark like tea and frothing.

[Andrea Gunning]

So they went to the er, they.

[Carrie]

Take one look at me and they hospitalize me. And while I'm admitted, the nurse comes up and says, you don't understand. You're super ill. Your white count is extraordinarily high. But we can't find the infection. You're very, very sick. You don't understand how sick you are. Cesar comes in that night to sit next to me. And he sits there and he goes, I realized something today. I realize if something were to happen to you, I would really miss you. That's a weird thing to say.

[Andrea Gunning]

After a few nights in the hospital with IV antibiotics, Carrie was feeling better. The doctors ran dozens of tests, but ultimately couldn't figure out what was causing Kerry's symptoms.

[Carrie]

But I get discharged and we continue to kind of do normal business, you know, running day to day life.

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar thought Kerry's sudden illness could be stress related. After all, she'd had an incredibly busy year. So they decided to go on a weekend getaway to relax and reconnect with each other.

[Carrie]

So we go to this resort for Thanksgiving weekend and the first night we get there, he heads in for a shower. And while he does it, he leaves his phone on the table. I don't know why, but I pick up his phone and snoop for the first time in my life.

[Andrea Gunning]

She didn't find anything concerning in his photos or texts. But then she opened his email.

[Carrie]

This is the first I really heard of Maria.

[Andrea Gunning]

Earlier that day, he'd written a long email to this woman. It sounded like she was an old flame.

[Carrie]

So I go rush into the bathroom to use it for excuse to read the email, and I open the email. He says, this marriage is a prison and he's talking about missing her.

[Andrea Gunning]

He told Kerry he wasn't talking to any other women, that the help he was getting was really working. What did he mean? This marriage was a prison? She'd been working so hard to hold it together. She sent herself a copy.

[Carrie]

And then I send it to our Counselor that we saw at the intensive and say, we need an immediate appointment. He's breached his contract with me, and he said he wasn't doing this. So we have a therapy appointment with our therapist, and he confronts Cesar about this. And Cesar doesn't really have a good excuse. He goes, I was just dumb. I was reminiscent. I was feeling nostalgic.

[Andrea Gunning]

He said he'd been missing his ex, Maria, and that they once spent time at the same beach.

[Carrie]

He said, I thought of her and I reached out or I shouldn't have. I know it was really bad. And then the therapist turns to me and says, so what are you going to do about this? What's your consequence? We talked about this. You need to have a consequence. And I'm thinking, what do you mean? I can't kick him out. I'm in another country. We're starting this business up. Things are in construction. I depend on him. I can't run a business without him.

[Andrea Gunning]

So instead of a consequence, she opted for a solution.

[Carrie]

So we both get into therapy. That's my solution. He starts to see a therapist.

[Andrea Gunning]

But that didn't quell her anxiety.

[Carrie]

And I'm starting to feel increasingly paranoid enough so that I'm now, like, trying to break in his phone, or I'm now looking for a second phone. It's weird. I'm, like, feeling crazy. And while all this is happening, he's just getting harder to reach, feeling really distant to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

He told Carrie he was going to his regular therapy appointments, but then she.

[Carrie]

Found out he didn't go. He apparently stashed the phone somewhere near the therapist's house and did something else. I have no idea what he did for that hour and a half, but he didn't go. So I'm catching him in lies now, and I know something's up.

[Andrea Gunning]

This lie was disturbing. She started to doubt if he was really committed to changing. Repeatedly catching Cesar in lies became a vicious cycle. But then one day, she got news that pulled her out of it. Carrie had three sons who were now all adults. Two of them were living together. And one noticed his brother Cameron wasn't acting himself. He was observing Cameron's behavior and called their mom out of concern.

[Carrie]

He said, he's been staring at the whole wall all weekend, mom. Just staring at the wall. Like, hours staring at the wall. And then he'll say weird things like he doesn't know what time of the day it is. And I'm thinking, oh, no, this is a serious neurological sign. It's an emergency. I'm frightened. This is bad, Something's really wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

She flew back to America to be with Cameron. When she got to the hospital, all of her boys were there.

[Carrie]

And they've been waiting for me. I can tell they've been waiting for mom to show up. And he says, mom, it's leukemia. And then we fall in each other's arms and just start to cry. And I think, oh, I've been here before.

[Andrea Gunning]

Cameron was scared.

[Carrie]

He said, mom, don't leave me, don't leave me. And I say, I'm not going anywhere.

[Andrea Gunning]

It wasn't even a decision for Carrie. She knew she had to stay and take care of him. She spent entire nights awake keeping an eye on her son's health as he started chemotherapy.

[Carrie]

But you have to see if the chemotherapy's gonna work. So he makes it through the first round, which is a big deal. He has to be hospitalized. It's given every 12 hours for five to seven days. It's round the clock chemotherapy. And meanwhile the treatment team tells me he's going to need this for upward to 18 months and he needs you here. This is a big thing and he's going to need your help.

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar had come with Carey back to the US and right away she noticed that he was distant. He didn't seem interested in staying in America long term or in supporting Carrie and Cameron. Instead, Cesar started complaining he wanted to go back to their life in Mexico.

[Carrie]

He's telling me he's not staying. I can tell already.

[Andrea Gunning]

One night while Cesar was sleeping, his phone alarm started ringing. So Carrie got up to shut it off.

[Carrie]

So I go in to get the phone and turn the alarm off. I pass through the passcode and it opens right up to text messages. He'd been texting and had fallen asleep with it beside his head. The message is between him and Maria and it says, my sister had cancer. She's recovered, she's just fine. Her son will be too. He's young, he's 28. He's got the advantage of youth on his side. And Caesar right back says, yeah, I know, but I gotta be supportive for Carrie. Carrie's really worried. That's not how she feels. And then he says, but I'll have to be careful because I'm with her now a lot. We're going to have to really be careful around these conversations. And then she texts. But what I'm really concerned about is that Cameron's care is going to eat up your half of her money.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was so callous, calculated even.

[Carrie]

Not only had he been betraying me and seeing women. But he has been communicating with her about a lot, including the money and what's happening with the money and that there is this money.

[Andrea Gunning]

Reading these texts and seeing how dismissive he was of her son's care and the concern for Carrie's money. Half of Brad's life insurance money finally sent her over the edge.

[Carrie]

It's money that paid out on Brad's death to a person who never earned it, didn't know him, didn't love him, and is trying to exploit and manipulate me. He's going to capitalize on Brad's death. Talk about enraging me. Hell no. I loved Brad. We spent 33 years together. He died from something catastrophic be damned. You're gonna get half of that. I sat there with Brad and the morphine didn't work and him pleading for another dose. You're half of Brad's life insurance. What do you mean your half? There is no your half here.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Com cocktail for a gift that's always.

[Narrator]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Betrayal after she saw texts between Cesar and Maria, Carrie was furious. She finally saw Cesar for who he really was. Or at least she thought she had.

[Carrie]

We're at a restaurant having a meal and I finally say to him, you know what? This can't be good for you. It's certainly not good for me. I think maybe we need to separate and I walk away. I get up and I walk out.

[Andrea Gunning]

She spent a few hours alone to process everything, to grieve the life she envisioned with Caesar. After all, her first marriage was a fairy tale. It was solid, joyous and honest. Eventually, she made her way home to continue the conversation with him.

[Carrie]

I said, so what's going on here? Do you want a divorce? He said, yes, I want a divorce.

[Andrea Gunning]

The following morning, they sat down at the breakfast table for the next hard conversation about what this divorce would mean for both of them financially.

[Carrie]

He starts to list all the properties that the company owns one by one. And next to them he writes their market value. And then he adds the column up in front of me, draws a hard line, so hard that I think he's going to scratch into the wood table. That's how firm he pressed. And he points at it that that's what I'm owed. Half of that. I have a right to half of that. And I look at him and my mouth and I said, but that's Brad's legacy. That's what he gave to me and the kids to give me a new start. And he says, life's never been fair to me. Why should it be fair to you?

[Andrea Gunning]

When Carrie and Cesar sat down to discuss the terms of their divorce, she watched her soon to be ex husband become an entirely different person.

[Carrie]

He's basically saying he has a right to something he has never worked to own. He didn't come into this relationship with anything and he's going to walk out with half of everything. Brad and I spent all these years with all these decisions to get to. He feels he has a right to it because life's not been fair. I'm enraged. I can't believe this is the way this is. And I can't believe this is actually legal. I'm speechless, like, floored. I feel like I don't know him. This is another level of a stranger. I don't know who this person is.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was not going to let him take what Brad had worked so hard for. After all, she'd only been with Caesar for three years.

[Carrie]

So my first thing is I pull all the documents together proving all the money I brought in, proving that it had been my assets, my capital that had been invested. And I make an appointment with the best divorce attorney that I can find in town. And I sit down with her and she looks at me and says, none of that matters. According to Mexican law, he's 50. 50 owner. Unless you can prove he's broken the law. He's owed half. He's owed half. I realized I better start making copies of the deeds to prove that I actually own the property. So I get smart and start making photocopies of stuff.

[Andrea Gunning]

Carrie was going back and forth in the US Taking care of her son Cameron, whose cancer treatment was going well. And in Mexico, untangling her marriage with Cesar. They moved into separate apartments while Carrie collected the evidence she needed for their divorce. Cesar had not invested any money into their shared business. But like the lawyer told her, her case didn't look promising.

[Carrie]

I'm frantic. I don't know how to get the company back.

[Andrea Gunning]

To add insult to injury, in the middle of this financial untangling, she received news. Cesar's ex, Maria, was back in town, and they were back together.

[Carrie]

And not only has she been in town, but they've put a deposit on a property together. They're going to buy a house together.

[Andrea Gunning]

She and Cesar had rarely spoken throughout the divorce. They were still in a bitter legal negotiation about dividing their business. But one day, she got a text from him. He sounded desperate.

[Carrie]

He says, I'm in trouble. I've been realizing I'm out of control and I need help. I need to see you. Can we meet?

[Andrea Gunning]

She thought maybe this was her chance to offer him a settlement that he would accept.

[Carrie]

And I'm thinking, this is the moment you've been waiting for. You have an opportunity to leverage your control of the company. He's going to need help from you. Use it. So I meet him at a coffee shop nearby, and he starts to tell me he's in trouble. And then I lean forward and whisper to him, I used to think that you were a good guy who sometimes wore a monster mask. But what I realized that you're actually a monster who sometimes wears a good guy mask. He goes absolutely white, and he starts to sweat. And then he whispers, I'm glad, you know.

[Andrea Gunning]

She finally saw him for who he really was, and she knew she needed an out. So Carrie told him she would help him through the next few months financially if he agreed to her terms.

[Carrie]

I say to him, I will help you, but I want all of the company back. You have to sign the company over to me. And he says to me, so what are you thinking? How much? And I said, how about whatever I have sitting in the bank right now, which is one third of what he wants? You can have that. You can have the car that you're driving. I'll sell the other car. You can have whatever is in the house. That's what you can have.

[Andrea Gunning]

Cesar didn't like the deal. He wanted to split their company's profits for the next two years.

[Carrie]

He leans into me and he whispers, you don't want to make me angry.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the moment, she pretended to agree to the deal.

[Carrie]

I shake his hand and I say, okay, I promise. But in my head, I thought I promised as much of a promise as any of your promises you've ever made to me.

[Andrea Gunning]

She never intended to give him half the profits. Once he signed over the company, she sold it. In the end, she Settled their divorce and paid him out. It was a big sum, but not nearly what he wanted, not even close.

[Carrie]

He never got any more money out of me other than that settlement that I made, the agreement I made with him, with the attorney.

[Andrea Gunning]

After selling the properties, she packed up her life in Mexico for good.

[Carrie]

So I packed myself up. I throw most of it away. I don't want it. Anything that reminds me of this house, this life, this person, this relationship, I took to the trash and people, scavengers came in and got it. And I was like, go for it. You can have it.

[Andrea Gunning]

She found evidence that he and Maria had been meeting up every few weeks for their entire relationship, even back to when she first met Cesar.

[Carrie]

And then when we break finally up, he's texting her about the half of the money, and then he sees her right away, right after we break up.

[Andrea Gunning]

And she also found some things that made her suspect her entire relationship with Caesar had been orchestrated. Like he said. He had been researching widows.

[Carrie]

I found Cliff Notes he kept on women. He literally was keeping track of stories, what to say. He planned things out. The guy I met never existed.

[Andrea Gunning]

She found note cards with names of women he dated. And on the cards, he'd written information about each of them. This is one of those strange details she'll never get an explanation for. Shocked, ashamed, and betrayed, Carrie flew back to the U.S. she focused on her family and settled down, moving close to her son, whose cancer was in remission. She was rebuilding, but there was still one piece of unfinished business. She wanted to know who Cesar really was, so she tracked down his ex wives.

[Carrie]

I get a hold of wife number one who lived in Mexico. Heard her version. Then I heard the one who'd been married 17 years, but the one I couldn't get ahold of was the one that was the shortest that he had the least to say about. So six months after I sent her a message, she contacts me and says, yeah, I'll have a phone call with you. And she says, because one of the things that happened is I got really sick. I said, what? She said, yeah, I got really sick, and I don't know why. And I got better when I got out of the relationship. And I'm thinking, well, that's really strange.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was strange. Carrie's symptoms also got better after she left the relationship. The vomiting and diarrhea, the lines on her nails, they all disappeared. She says she'll never know why she got so sick during her marriage. What she does know is that that relationship was literally toxic to her body.

[Carrie]

Living with somebody who's constantly deceitful. This chronic state of being in a fight or flight with all the cortisol levels does terrible damage to the body.

[Andrea Gunning]

Back in the U.S. she joined support groups and relied on her three adult sons. Cameron was cancer free, and the family had become closer than ever.

[Carrie]

I did have a moment with my sons, and I said to them, you must be so ashamed of me. And my oldest looked at me and he said, no, Mom. Cesar used your best qualities against you. We're not ashamed. And I just wept.

[Andrea Gunning]

That was the start of her healing process. And the next step was writing a book about what she went through.

[Carrie]

I just started writing. I wrote the story as fast as I could. It took me nine months to write Love youe More, and I found it really, really healing.

[Andrea Gunning]

With time, she could look back on the relationship with clarity. She applied her expertise in psychology and began to understand that what she experienced was narcissistic abuse.

[Carrie]

They consider a narcissistically abusive relationship a cult of two, really the same tactics that cult leaders use. Highly predatory people use the same to create fast rapport, build trust, and also create a very highly, almost addictive relationship that's very difficult to leave. It's intoxicating, but also terrifying. It's like a connection on fear.

[Andrea Gunning]

Through her work in therapy, she came to a big revelation, one that went back to the abuse she experienced as a child. And she realized that violation might have played into the cycle she found herself in with Caesar.

[Carrie]

I realized that when I was little and I had suffered the abuse with my sister, even though I was only like five and she was four, in my head, I had made her a promise that I would never abandon her again. And I approached that promise that I had made. That was really unreasonable as a child, but I sort of applied it to him. And to leave him felt like I was abandoning her all over again. And that was what made it really hard for me to truly break free, break out of this. And coming to that conclusion felt like it broke so much of my paralysis, my confusion.

[Andrea Gunning]

She wanted to know how she'd missed the signs with Cesar and why she stayed in it for so long. It wasn't like her.

[Carrie]

I cannot begin to describe to you the agonizing paralysis I felt about making a decision. The mind literally says, I can't compute. Both realities seem true. I can't compute, so it makes no decision, as if that's a decision.

[Andrea Gunning]

She turned to books and research on coercive control and narcissistic abuse to help give her Perspective.

[Carrie]

I came across a book by Don Hennessy called How he gets into her Head. Highly recommend it. Irish law enforcement. He writes about the grooming practices. In the first part of the book, he describes working with domestic violence victims for years. I mean, like many, many, many years, they kept trying to do all these studies finding a consistent pattern among victims that would predict that this is a person vulnerable to abuse. They couldn't find any. There was no consistent pattern among all of the domestic violent victims. It wasn't until they started looking at the predators that the pattern fit. The pattern is with the predator, not with the victim.

[Andrea Gunning]

She's been able to let go of her shame about the decision to stay with Caesar. The betrayal community has shown her that no one is above being deceived.

[Carrie]

I'm a psychologist. Everyone somehow assumes that psychologists are like above human. Superhuman. We should know. We should be excellent reads of people. Yeah, I'm good reads of people. But when it comes to myself, I'm not always so good. My personal life, my personal perceptions get involved. It's very easy for us to criticize victims and say it's the victim's fault. But you're just showing your ignorance because anyone can fall for something like this. You just haven't met the sophisticated enough predator.

[Andrea Gunning]

When she was at her most vulnerable, grieving Brad's death and desperate to have that kind of partnership back again, at that very moment, she happened to meet the right predator. Her trust in Cesar is inherently linked to losing Brad.

[Carrie]

Nobody prepares you for what it's like to lose a partner. You know, we often think to say, they're my other half. I'll tell you, it felt like I was ripped in half. And to think about the future. I've got maybe what, 30 more years of no one in my life and I'm going to be alone. And this big critical person who was my partner, my husband, my lover, my best friend, my co parent is gone. I can't even begin to describe to you the panic I felt. We talk about love bombing and it's too good to be true. And it happens super fast. And you suddenly with this person for forever. But you know what? Sometimes love looks like that. That's what love with Brad looked like.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to tell your story? For Carrie, it comes back to letting people know. No one is above deception or betrayal.

[Carrie]

And by the way, I have had many psychologists who've now since reached out to me to tell me it's happened to them. And an excellent book is Kristen Milstead why Can't I Just leave? Who's a PhD in sociology and it happened to her. But there are many professional women and men who've gotten trapped by this. If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal, I look up one of his email addresses.

[Carrie]

And it shows that he has an.

[Andrea Gunning]

Ashley Madison account and I just nearly threw up. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayal p o-mail.com we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Kristen Melchiori and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreimecheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt D'Alvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Aruka and Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Mib Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator]

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[Detective Alex Cross]

Com cocktail now streaming on Prime Video. You can call me Detective Alex Cross. Based on characters created by James Patterson. We have to catch this serial killer. I don't kill for fun. And created by Ben Watkins. Ms. Kevin thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. Aldous Hudge is DC's finest. Alex Cross. If we don't find him soon, we may never have another chance.

[Carrie]

Clock's ticking.

[Detective Alex Cross]

You think you can stop him? I know I can. Cuz I know him Than he knows himself. Cross. A new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now.

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