EP 16 - Chelsea

Summary

Episode 16 - Chelsea

Release Date: October 31, 2024
Podcast: Betrayal: Weekly
Host: Andrea Gunning
Production: iHeartPodcasts and Glass Podcasts

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Introduction

In Episode 16 of Betrayal: Weekly, host Andrea Gunning delves into Chelsea's harrowing story of trust shattered and deception unveiled. This episode explores the intricate layers of Chelsea's personal trauma, her tumultuous relationship with James, and the devastating discoveries that left her grappling with betrayal on multiple fronts.

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Chelsea’s Background and Early Trauma

Chelsea's journey begins with a childhood marred by abuse. Unlike cinematic portrayals of kidnapping, Chelsea describes her abuse differently:

Chelsea [03:39]: "I really hope that one day I will be in a place where I can present myself publicly and say, look, this is me. This is my real name. This is where I'm really from."

Her parents trafficked her, subjecting her to grooming and sexual abuse by adults. Her mother’s involvement with a man later charged with multiple counts of child sexual abuse further complicated her early life.

Chelsea [04:22]: "Education was my escape from home. I got scholarships. I was an amazing student."

Chelsea focused on education as a means to escape her traumatic home environment, excelling academically and distancing herself from her parents.

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Building a New Life and Entering a Relationship

After college, Chelsea pursued personal healing through individual therapy and reconnecting with an old friend, James. Their relationship began swiftly, characterized by deep emotional connections and shared therapeutic goals.

Chelsea [07:02]: "One of the things that really drew me to him was just how focused he was on my emotions. It felt really wonderful and it felt really safe and really attentive."

James introduced Chelsea to a vibrant artistic community, enhancing her worldview and fostering a seemingly fairy-tale romance. The couple engaged in couples counseling early on to strengthen their bond.

Chelsea [09:28]: "This just seemed so easy."

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The Onset of Controlling Behavior

As the pandemic struck in 2020, Chelsea and James moved in together, transitioning from a long-distance relationship to cohabitation. This shift exposed James's underlying controlling tendencies.

Chelsea [13:09]: "I work in a fairly male dominated industry, so most of my colleagues and my team were men. And James was constantly fixated on who I was talking to."

James's jealousy intensified, leading him to demand access to Chelsea’s phone and monitor her interactions, which Chelsea found increasingly suffocating.

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Discovery of Disturbing Photos

A heated argument over James's intrusive behavior culminated in a shocking revelation when Chelsea decided to confront him by accessing his phone. While deleting his photos, she stumbled upon a hidden folder containing:

1. Photos of Other Women: Including intimate images of his best friend's wife, raising immediate red flags about his character.

   Chelsea [20:44]: "There were photos of his best friend's wife... Why would he have naked photos of his best friend's wife?"

2. Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM): Most disturbingly, Chelsea found images of young children in compromising situations.

   Chelsea [23:03]: "Everything in me just told me, especially in the context of where this was kept with all of the other images. I was like, this is 100% something he is sexually interested in."

The gravity of these discoveries left Chelsea in a state of shock and disbelief, prompting her to seek immediate legal and emotional support.

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Confrontation and Immediate Aftermath

Chelsea confronted James in a joint counseling session, presenting the evidence she had uncovered. James reacted with denial and aggression, refusing to acknowledge the severity of his actions.

James [26:15]: "I don't need her consent. It's his property. He took that photo. It's his property to share with me."

The session ended abruptly with James threatening legal action against Chelsea, leaving her stunned and further isolated.

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Therapeutic Struggles and Seeking Help

In the wake of the confrontation, Chelsea sought therapy to navigate her trauma and the complex emotions surrounding James's actions. She began working with Eric, a therapist with a background in prosecuting sex crimes, hoping for guidance.

Chelsea [35:18]: "I can't solve this. You are not Batman. You can't figure this out."

However, Eric's reluctance to support her decision to report James created additional emotional turmoil. Despite his professional background, Eric discouraged Chelsea from taking legal action, emphasizing her need to heal and move on from the relationship.

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Determined to Report James

Determined to protect the victim depicted in the photos, Chelsea conducted her own investigation, identifying the girl in the images as a friend of James with young daughters. This discovery propelled her to finally take action.

Chelsea [38:11]: "I got my lawyer. I'm like, I gotta report this."

Her meeting with the detective from the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force was validating, though the lack of sufficient evidence led to James avoiding arrest.

Detective [41:10]: "He's like, this isn't contraband, but it is absolutely wrong. And you were doing absolutely the right thing by reporting it."

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The Shocking Revelation of Eric’s Betrayal

Shortly after reporting James, Chelsea received alarming news about her therapist, Eric:

Chelsea [42:20]: "I see possession of child pornography. I am looking at this mugshot of this person, and this is a person I have just spent the last several months with in the most. In the most intimate and trusting of a relationship."

Eric was arrested for distributing child sexual abuse material, a revelation that compounded Chelsea’s trauma and feelings of betrayal.

Chelsea [43:43]: "I am looking at a photo of his face being charged with the exact same things that had traumatized me."

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Healing and Rebuilding

The compounded betrayals left Chelsea at an emotional rock bottom. She took a leave of absence from work, prioritized her mental health, and engaged in group therapy for validation and support.

Chelsea [44:52]: "I needed a room of people to say, that's fucked up. That shouldn't happen."

Eventually, Chelsea moved across the country to start anew, dedicating herself to overcoming her trauma and rebuilding her life.

Chelsea [46:17]: "It ended up taking about four years before I was able to confidently say that these things happened and not doubt myself, not blame myself, not think that this is my fault or my responsibility."

---

Conclusion and Reflections

Chelsea's story is a poignant testament to the destructive power of betrayal and the resilience required to overcome deep-seated trauma. Her decision to break the silence serves as an empowering narrative for other survivors, highlighting the importance of speaking out despite institutional and personal betrayals.

Chelsea [47:02]: "These kinds of things only exist in a world of silence and denial. And I hope by breaking my silence, it allows someone else to feel empowered to break their own."

Andrea Gunning closes the episode by reinforcing the significance of Chelsea's courage in sharing her story, encouraging listeners to confront their own experiences of betrayal and seek the necessary support to heal.

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Key Takeaways

• Trust and Betrayal: Chelsea’s journey underscores how trust, once broken by those closest to us, can have profound and far-reaching impacts.
• Institutional Failures: The episode highlights systemic issues in prosecuting sexual abuse cases, despite clear evidence and moral obligations.
• Healing Through Community: Group therapy and community support play crucial roles in the healing process for survivors of betrayal and abuse.
• Empowerment Through Storytelling: Sharing personal narratives can empower individuals to break the cycle of silence and seek justice.

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Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea [05:25]: "I was a scared little child walking around in like an Optimus prime suit."
• Chelsea [20:38]: "I was looking at a photo of his face being charged with the exact same things that had traumatized me."
• Chelsea [37:59]: "This has got to be it."
• Chelsea [44:34]: "When Eric got arrested, I just hit an emotional rock bottom."

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Betrayal: Weekly continues to shed light on the hidden deceptions that disrupt our lives, offering listeners a deep dive into real-life stories of betrayal and resilience. For more episodes and stories, visit the iHeartRadio app or Apple Podcasts.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Chelsea]

You can call me Detective Alex Cross.

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[Chelsea]

We have to catch this serial killer. I don't kill for fun.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

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[Chelsea]

If we don't find him soon, we may never have another chance. Clock's ticking. You think you can stop him? I know I can because I know him better than he knows himself.

[Unknown Advertiser]

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[Chelsea]

There were no red flags I could have seen with Eric. On paper, he seemed like the perfect therapist. I shared things with him I had never said out loud. And I am looking at a photo of his face being charged with the exact same things that had traumatized me.

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal. A show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. This is Chelsea's story. Chelsea has a high profile career, so for this episode, all the names have been changed to protect her anonymity.

[Chelsea]

I really hope that one day I will be in a place where I can present myself publicly and say, look, this is me. This is my real name. This is where I'm really from.

[Andrea Gunning]

Chelsea's been through more abuse than anyone should have to experience. As a child, she was trafficked by her parents. She says that her experience wasn't like the movies where she was kidnapped and held against her will. Instead, her mother brought her to adults homes who groomed and sexually abused her. At the time, her mom worked for a man who was later charged with multiple counts of child sexual abuse. Chelsea knew she needed to get away from home for good.

[Chelsea]

Education was my escape from home. I got scholarships. I was an amazing student. I went to every opportunity I could find for any sort of out of the home program, whether that was camps, whether that was college courses. Over the summer, I used education as my way out.

[Andrea Gunning]

She got a scholarship to college and stopped talking to her parents. The further away she got from home, the angrier she became about the abuse she experienced as a child.

[Chelsea]

And then there were all those feelings of betrayal, of, like, what were all of these adults doing? Was there no responsible adult in my life?

[Andrea Gunning]

In order to survive, Chelsea focused on building her own life. And outside of home, she not only survived, she excelled. She got an advanced degree and began a highly competitive, successful career. And she threw herself into work. She says that on the outside it looked like she had it all together, but on the inside, it was a different story.

[Chelsea]

I was a scared little child walking around in like an Optimus prime suit. I think anyone meeting me on the outside just thought, wow, that person has it all together. Like, that person is invincible, indestructible, meanwhile dying on the inside.

[Andrea Gunning]

She got married after college, but quickly realized she needed to work on herself and her trauma before she could invest in a successful marriage.

[Chelsea]

My ex husband and I were very amicably splitting up, and also during that time, I was starting to confront some of these things. That had happened to me when I was younger that were negatively impacting the way I was able to show up in relationships.

[Andrea Gunning]

She started working with a therapist online, processing the abuses from her childhood. And around the same time, she reconnected with an old friend who we're going to call James.

[Chelsea]

James began reaching out. He had also gone through a breakup and we were kind of just processing this idea of us both having this rebirth of rediscovering ourselves after a long term relationship.

[Andrea Gunning]

She and James started talking every day. After a few months, she realized that.

[Chelsea]

There was something there we wanted to explore. It just felt like he was this person who was there the entire time, right under my nose.

[Andrea Gunning]

James really saw her and met her where she was emotionally.

[Chelsea]

One of the things that really drew me to him was just how focused he was on my emotions. It felt really wonderful and it felt really safe and really attentive. And he just had such an incredible way of viewing the world and was also just very cultured in a way that I hadn't experienced.

[Andrea Gunning]

He gave her access to a world. Chelsea idealized a community of artists who expanded her worldview.

[Chelsea]

James had this like, whole artistic side to him. Like he was a visual artist. His medium was kind of like social commentary photography, but not your typical photography. Like a lot of like distortions of images. And I just really appreciated him as an artist.

[Andrea Gunning]

James came from a wealthy family and he had inherited a large real estate portfolio. It meant his schedule was flexible and he had a lot of disposable income. So for their third date, I remember.

[Chelsea]

Him standing there and just saying, this might sound crazy, but are you doing anything for Thanksgiving? I was like, no, I'm not. I'm estranged from most of my family, so holidays are always kind of a weird time. And he's like, I'm kind of doing a solo thing in New York City. Would you want to fly out with me? And I was like, why not? Let's do this. Our third date was this week. Long trip in New York City where he planned everything. And it was Peter Luger's Steakhouse and amazing seats at some jazz venue and going and seeing a Broadway production. I only been to New York once before. It was really amazing. He was just showing me New York and it was pretty incredible.

[Andrea Gunning]

After their week long third date, they became a couple. They lived a few hours apart, so on the weekends they'd go to each other's cities where James planned elaborate outings.

[Chelsea]

James was really into arts and culture, so we would go to museums and see different musicians or plays. And it was really fun. Everything just happened so fast. It felt like out of a fairy tale.

[Andrea Gunning]

These dates quickly progressed into a relationship, and Chelsea says that above all, being with him felt so easy. So right.

[Chelsea]

And that was something we would always say together. This just seemed so easy.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of Chelsea's friends was married to James best friend. So right away, they had a community together. But that also meant Chelsea's friend had seen James in prior relationships.

[Chelsea]

She did warn me early on that he had a history of. She described it as being selfish.

[Andrea Gunning]

Early on, Chelsea saw a little bit of that, but she didn't necessarily see it as selfish. It was more overbearing.

[Chelsea]

He was very concerned about my sexual history, frequently asking questions about the identity of my prior partners, the number of prior partners I'd had.

[Andrea Gunning]

He would ask to go through her phone. She hated that. And it gave her pause about the relationship, so she addressed it with him directly. His reply made her feel better.

[Chelsea]

He said that he started therapy and became very open about his efforts to try to address his insecurities. He started telling me about this therapist he started seeing, and it meant a lot for me to hear this level of accountability from someone. So I was willing to continue to try to explore something with James.

[Andrea Gunning]

Because they both believed in therapy, they started couples counseling together. It was only three months into the relationship, but they both wanted to improve their communication and connection.

[Chelsea]

I was at this place in my life where I was very vulnerable, but also energized to do the work, to heal myself. And to have James reflect that back to me was really significant. I was dealing with a lot of personal sexual dysfunction as a result of digging into my own trauma history. And he was very open to hearing about my boundaries. He was very open to try to make our sexual connection a safe place. He had his own sexual dysfunctions, so that was something that we were able to talk about openly. And this was the first relationship I had been in where I was aware of those things for myself, and I was communicating with them. And he was very receptive to that, and that made me feel very safe.

[Andrea Gunning]

They were communicating better than ever. They were still long distance, but James began staying at her place more often.

[Chelsea]

So James had a key to my house pretty early. I worked really long and crazy hours, so I wanted him to have a key so he could just let himself in and out. And had a dog at the time, and he and the dog had really bonded, and it was nice to have him around.

[Andrea Gunning]

When the pandemic started in 2020, their lives officially merged Neither one of us.

[Chelsea]

Wanted to be alone through that. And suddenly, five months into dating, James and I went from living a few hours away to we were living together and me working within 20ft of him at all times.

[Andrea Gunning]

Now quarantining together with Chelsea working from home, James controlling behavior returned. As the couple grew closer. James couldn't hide his jealous side. He became more controlling about who she was talking to and why.

[Chelsea]

I work in a fairly male dominated industry, so most of my colleagues and my team were men. And James was constantly fixated on who I was talking to. He would always ask, what's their story? I'd say, what does that mean? He'd say, are they married? I was like, well, I think so, but what does it matter? They work for me.

[Andrea Gunning]

He became almost paranoid and Chelsea wasn't having it.

[Chelsea]

And I was getting more confident in standing up for my own boundaries around my communication with other people. And frankly, I was just getting sick and tired of feeling constantly monitored by this person.

[Andrea Gunning]

One day they got into a heated argument about his behavior. He insisted on going through her phone. She refused and locked herself in the bedroom. That's when things escalated even further.

[Chelsea]

James from the other side of the door told me that if I did not come out and speak to him and if I did not give him full access to my phone, he was going to distribute private images of me to my coworkers.

[Andrea Gunning]

They were photos from early on in their relationship, photos James said he would delete.

[Chelsea]

I spoke to him through the door and was like, you said you deleted those. And he said, well, I didn't. I lied to you about that. He went on to say, they meant a lot to me. You're just so beautiful. And I wanted to keep them. And I was livid that he had violated that trust. I was sick of it. The fact that he had just told me that he had images that he didn't have consent to was enough. I wanted his phone. So I stepped outside that door, I grabbed his phone, I went back inside my bedroom and I locked the door and I went into it, went back through our messages, found the images and deleted them. And on an iPhone, it's not enough to delete them. You then have to go to the deleted folder and delete them from there. So when I was going to the deleted folder, right below the deleted items, there's a folder called the hidden folder. And I'm seeing all sorts of things in this folder. I don't really know how to grasp what I'm seeing. And I can feel myself start to leave my own body and I can feel myself start to just float away because what I am seeing I just cannot comprehend. And while I'm holding his phone in my left hand, I take my phone in my right and I just start recording.

[Andrea Gunning]

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[Chelsea]

The first thing I noticed was a series of photographs of Myacondo where it looked like he was documenting or spying on me. That kind of triggered this oh shit, what the fuck am I looking at? Feeling it looked like he had maybe gone through rooms, placed objects in certain places to see if they were moved between when he was leaving or coming back and forth. And they had date stamps on them. So that was really strange.

[Andrea Gunning]

She kept scrolling through the folder which had hundreds of images in it.

[Chelsea]

There were whole collections of nude photos of different women.

[Andrea Gunning]

She recognized some of these women. There were photos of his best friend's wife, the one that was Chelsea's friend, the one that had warned her about James. Selfish tendencies.

[Chelsea]

I'm like, God, that looks like her. But why would he have naked photos of his best friend's wife? Why would he have these?

[Andrea Gunning]

Right away she called her.

[Chelsea]

I was like, I remember you had a tattoo on your ankle. Which ankle is it on? And she told me and I was like, he has photos of you. And she was just like, that's not possible. I have never Never, never. And I was like, no, I don't think you sent these. I don't think you sent them.

[Andrea Gunning]

Chelsea sent her friend the photos and she confirmed that yes, they were photos her husband had taken of her, but she didn't know he shared them with anyone, much less James.

[Chelsea]

And you could just hear like the breath come out of her. And she says, I'm going to talk to my husband.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before she hung up, she asked her.

[Chelsea]

Friend, I'm like, there's all sorts of other women in here. Do you know any of these women? And she did. She, she did. A lot of these were the wives of James's friends. It appeared that James and his male friend group were exchanging these intimate photos with each other.

[Andrea Gunning]

As Chelsea kept looking through James hidden folder, she found something even more disturbing.

[Chelsea]

The other category of images that he had on this phone were dozens of photos of children, young children, two, four, six years old children. They were like little girls in bathing suits. And I don't know if he was taking these at some public park. I don't know if he was taking these off of social media sites. Some well meaning parent was posting something.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her mind was racing. Who were these girls? And then she found one particular photo. The photo, the one she'd never be able to unsee.

[Chelsea]

The moment I looked at that photo, I knew something was fucking wrong. Something was absolutely wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

Chelsea disclosed what she saw in detail. It's too disturbing to share here, but what she discovered she clearly believed was csam, or child sexual abuse material with a girl's face cropped out.

[Chelsea]

Everything in me just told me, especially in the context of where this was kept with all of the other images. I was like, this is 100% something he is sexually interested in. And I did not know how to handle that.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was having an out of body experience looking at these photos, but at the same time she was still in her apartment with James on the other side of the door screaming for his phone back.

[Chelsea]

I'm just like, I can't do that. You threatened me, can't do that. And he could tell by my voice. He can tell. And I open the door and I tell him, you need to leave. I've seen something, I've seen something.

[Andrea Gunning]

Scared of him and unsure of what to do next, she gave him back the phone. She didn't tell him that she recorded anything. So he left in a rage and Chelsea quickly locked the door behind him.

[Chelsea]

But then he spends the entire drive back calling me over and over and over again and yelling and raging and saying, I'm gonna turn you into the police. You took something from my phone. What you just did is illegal. You better delete everything. And I was just like, look, I'm not talking about this. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking about it. And finally, I just turned my phone off and I tried to sleep.

[Andrea Gunning]

When she woke up, her first thought was that picture, the one with the child's face, cropped out.

[Chelsea]

My mind went in a million directions as to why he would have this, but I couldn't identify who the kid was. Did someone take this photo and then he just somehow found it, or did.

[Andrea Gunning]

He take it day after day? The photo was all she could think about. She talked with an attorney and described the image. But he confirmed one of her fears, that the image might not meet the standards needed for an arrest. It was right on the edge. A month after the discovery, James agreed to a joint counseling session. They hadn't seen each other or talked since their fight. Chelsea wanted the support of a mandated reporter, and she wanted to confront him there in a neutral environment to see if he'd confess to Moore. On top of all that, she was also trying to understand something that was just incomprehensible.

[Chelsea]

This is part of my trauma, too. My go to coping mechanism is denial and rationalization. And I think I wanted a reason for this not to be what I thought it was.

[Andrea Gunning]

It might sound naive, but part of her still couldn't believe this was real. She started by asking James about the photos of his friends, wives.

[Chelsea]

I said, why do you have these? Do you have permission to have these? Did she no. And consent to having these photos? He looked at me and he said, I don't need her consent. It's his property. He took that photo. It's his property to share with me. And I wanted to puke. Hearing that.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was clear that he had thought about this extensively and that he knew how to operate just under the radar. Finally, at the end of their session, she asked about the photos of children and that one photo in particular.

[Chelsea]

And so, in the presence of the couples counselor, I pulled out my phone and I showed him that image. And I said, what the fuck is this? When I handed the phone to him with the child image, the tension in that room was just wild. You saw him immediately start to shake. His hand started shaking. He immediately said, that is not a crime. There is no penetration. That is not illegal. He just kept repeating that. He instantly just went into, she stole things off of my phone. I'm going to prosecute her for that. And at that point, he just said, I'm going to have to go talk to my attorney about your theft of information from my phone. And he left. Just got out and left.

[Andrea Gunning]

She sat there, stunned. Chelsea and the therapist sat in silence as they waited for James car to leave the parking lot. Why did he even bother to come that day? Chelsea has a theory.

[Chelsea]

Looking back, I think he was trying to figure out what I knew because he knew I found something and he didn't know what I knew. And I think he was doing this to try to protect himself.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her relationship with James was over. But it was only the beginning of a horrible dilemma for Chelsea. She grappled with reporting him to the police, but she was worried that she didn't have enough evidence.

[Chelsea]

I felt like what I had wasn't going to be enough. This is right on the cusp, and if I report James, what is going to happen to me?

[Andrea Gunning]

Chelsea was afraid of James. Wealthy, well connected family. She was also thinking of the legal threats he made and the threats about releasing photos of her. But more than that, she was afraid to report and have nothing happen at all. It took her back to the way she felt as a child.

[Chelsea]

When I saw these images on James phone, it took me back to being those children. And it was so hard not to think about what those children might have been experiencing if they were being abused. And I can report this person to the police, but is anything going to happen? And can I emotionally handle that? Can I emotionally handle having nothing happen as a result of it? Because unfortunately, that was the childhood thing that was playing out.

[Andrea Gunning]

I understand where Chelsea is coming from. If you've listened to season two of Betrayal, you heard Ashley Lytton's story of how her husband had over 1000 images of CSAM in his hidden folder, but he served less than a year. These cases are wildly under prosecuted and with only one image as evidence. Chelsea's concerns were valid or rather realistic. But that didn't change her feeling of moral obligation to the girl in the photo and victims like her.

[Chelsea]

My biggest priority at that point was protecting this particular little girl.

[Andrea Gunning]

She knew if she was going to report James, she needed professional support to get there.

[Chelsea]

I knew I was going to need a lot of therapy. And that's how I met Eric.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eric was a therapist who checked all the boxes and then some. In fact, he'd been a prosecutor on sex crimes before he went into counseling.

[Chelsea]

There were no red flags I could have seen with Eric. On paper, he seemed like the perfect therapist.

[Andrea Gunning]

But she would soon find out he would pleasant attention parents and grandparents, Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventure that will last all year long. A Guardian Bike the easiest, safest and quickest bikes for kids to learn on Kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. I recently got my niece a Guardian bike and it's been amazing watching her learn to ride without training wheels. The bike's intuitive design made it easy for her to balance and with a bit of help from her grandparents, she was off on her own in no time. It's given her such a boost of confidence. She feels so free and independent every time she rides. Watching her reach this milestone has been priceless and Guardian made it truly special. Join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian bike today. Their holiday sales have begun offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes, no code needed plus get free shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase after signing up for their newsletter. Visit guardianbikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today. Happy riding.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Chelsea]

I felt like I was coming into that scenario with my guts pulled out. It was just like, what do I do with all this?

[Andrea Gunning]

She was working up to being able to report her ex, James, and she needed a safe place like Eric's office to process her trauma, starting with her childhood abuse.

[Chelsea]

Working with Eric, he was able to help me accept some of these bigger terms that I was uncomfortable with, terms.

[Andrea Gunning]

Like trafficking and incest, like, is this the right term?

[Chelsea]

I started seeing Eric to have that space to unpack the sexual abuse trauma and was just very early stages of unpacking that.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the same time, she was haunted by the images she'd seen on James phone. It became all consuming.

[Chelsea]

I couldn't close my eyes at night and not see these children. I just kept fixating on, who is this child?

[Andrea Gunning]

Because Eric had been a prosecutor. She trusted his perspective. And Eric wasn't so sure she should report James. In fact, he worried she was taking on too much personal responsibility.

[Chelsea]

And one thing Eric would tell me all the time was, Chelsea, you can't solve this. You are not Batman. You can't figure this out.

[Andrea Gunning]

Since they broke up, James deleted all of his social media. She heard through the grapevine he was saying he'd been hacked. But Chelsea suspected it could be related to what she saw on his phone. She worried that while she waited to report him, he could be deleting or destroying evidence. And Eric helped her understand the pathology of people like James.

[Chelsea]

Eric would talk to me about these types of individuals, these types of predators. He would talk about their behaviors. His exact quote was, every once in a while, they freak out and purge but they eventually go back to doing it.

[Andrea Gunning]

After two months of working with Eric, Chelsea felt ready to report James. She began to see it as the only way out.

[Chelsea]

I thought that maybe if I could face these things now, maybe that would make the nightmares of the kids stop.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Eric dug in. He still wasn't sure reporting was the right decision for Chelsea.

[Chelsea]

When I started saying that, I really felt like I needed to turn James in. Eric was encouraging me not to. He said, I need to let go of the relationship.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eric felt like Chelsea wasn't properly grieving and moving on from her relationship with James. And that by fixating on these photos, she was trying to stay connected to him somehow. One night, it just hit her. She knew who the girl in the photo could be.

[Chelsea]

This image that's been haunting me, there's no face, but the ages are the right ages.

[Andrea Gunning]

James did have a friend with two young daughters. Chelsea hadn't put those pieces together before, so she did some Internet sleuthing.

[Chelsea]

I turned Facebook on. I went on these parents Facebook profile and couldn't believe what I saw. I was like, that's it. It's gotta be this kid. The ages of the right age. The cabinetry looks the same as like in these photos that are showing up. I'm full on Facebook Detective at this point, this could be that same house, same wall color, same cabinets. This has got to be it.

[Andrea Gunning]

James had access to these kids. This was the girl in the photo. Reporting him felt more urgent than ever. Despite Eric's advice, Chelsea had made up her mind.

[Chelsea]

I called my lawyer. I'm like, I gotta report this. And he helped set up a meeting with a detective in the town that James lived who was the head of the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. And we set up a meeting for that following Monday.

[Andrea Gunning]

After she set the meeting, she went to her regular therapy appointment with Eric. And she felt empowered.

[Chelsea]

I remember sitting there with Eric and saying, things are going to change. I'm going to identify. I'm going to know. The next time I'm in a room with a person like this, I'm going to know. I'm going to know it. I'm going to know everything about this person. I'm going to be able to pick them out of a room. And I remember Eric was really uncomfortable.

[Andrea Gunning]

Eric ended her session early that day. Chelsea planned to prepare for the meeting with police in her next therapy session.

[Chelsea]

And I remember going to his office and I was hyped. Like I had my narrative partially written. I was like, I'm going to do this.

[Andrea Gunning]

But on the day of that therapy.

[Chelsea]

Session, Eric wasn't there. He was never late. I usually when I pulled in, I would park next to his car. The car wasn't there. Ten minutes go by, I'm looking at the receptionist. They're like, this is really weird. We can't get ahold of him. And she's calling. She's like, the phone's going straight to voicemail. I don't understand what's happening. They said, we're going to get another clinician. Just please wait.

[Andrea Gunning]

This was her last session before she finally went to the police. She really needed guidance. So another therapist from the practice agreed to see Chelsea that day.

[Chelsea]

And I was like, something is wrong. Eric is never late. Our last session was kind of weird. I felt like maybe I made him uncomfortable. And I could tell by the way she was responding to me, too. She was like, something's not right either. I could sense it. And I started telling her what happened. I was like, this is what I've been dealing with. Eric was telling me not to do it. Like I needed to, like, grieve this relationship, that doing this was just gonna, like, let it perpetuate on. I wasn't gonna need enclosure. She's like, no, you're doing the right thing. You're doing the right thing.

[Andrea Gunning]

After that session, she finally reported. James.

[Chelsea]

That Monday morning, I got up, I met with the detective, and we had a three hour recorded interview. I showed him everything, told him the same story that I'm telling you now. He was so validating. He said, he told me, he's like, this isn't contraband, but it is absolutely wrong. And you were doing absolutely the right thing by reporting it. But I want to manage your expectations. There are things I can try to do, but this by itself isn't enough. And I was like, I know. That's why it's taken me so long to get here.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the end of their meeting, the detective assured her that they'd do everything they could. She left the station relieved. It had been a difficult and draining day, but the day was far from over.

[Chelsea]

So I got my car, went back home to where I lived. I have been in my house for less than 15 minutes. I've literally walked in the door, gone to the bathroom, opened a Lacroix.

[Andrea Gunning]

And then she saw an email come in from her therapist's office.

[Chelsea]

And it says, I'm receiving this letter because I'm a client of Eric's. And that they were notified that he was arrested and that he was immediately terminated. And they were reaching out to me to facilitate continued care. One of the last things it says is any questions related to the status of Eric may be directed towards. And they provide a detective name and the phone number. And I'm like, oh, my God, I already knew everything in my body knew what had happened.

[Andrea Gunning]

She went to the court records website and typed in Eric's name.

[Chelsea]

I see possession of child pornography. I am looking at this mugshot of this person, and this is a person I have just spent the last several months with in the most. In the most intimate and trusting of a relationship. I shared things with this person I had never said out loud before. And I am looking at a photo of his face being charged with the exact same things that had traumatized me. Just sat there staring at the screen, just feeling like I wanted to tear my skin off, thinking about every detail I told this person and then thinking that they were sexually aroused by these things.

[Andrea Gunning]

Then she pulled up the police report, and what she read there was a nightmare.

[Chelsea]

They seized all of his electronic equipment. They found thousands of videos, and the descriptions are horrific.

[Andrea Gunning]

She replayed all the things he'd said in sessions with her.

[Chelsea]

Then, thinking about all of those things, he told me about how a predator would behave. I'm like, he was telling me about his own behavior, and I started vomiting.

[Andrea Gunning]

The person she'd turned to in this situation would be a therapist.

[Chelsea]

I didn't know what to do next. There were so many layers of things I had to process. I could not have told this story to a worse person.

[Andrea Gunning]

For the first time in her life, she took a leave of absence from work.

[Chelsea]

When Eric got arrested, I just hit an emotional rock bottom, and I realized my coping mechanisms don't work anymore. I can't outperform this.

[Andrea Gunning]

During this time, mental health was her main priority. She started group therapy, which proved to be healing.

[Chelsea]

I needed a room of people to say, that's fucked up. That shouldn't happen. I needed to see that outrage from someone. And what we called in my program was reality checking. You need the validation, like, wow, this feels really wrong. Would this be wrong to you? And people are like, yeah, that would be really wrong.

[Andrea Gunning]

While she was working on stabilizing herself, she got an update from the police about her report on James. They didn't have enough to arrest him, but the police had done a knock and talk.

[Chelsea]

When they told him that someone observed a concerning image of a child on his phone, he said, it didn't come from my phone, and if it did, it wasn't illegal. And then this is the really telling thing. He asked the police officer if they're prosecuting me for taking stuff off of his phone.

[Andrea Gunning]

As far as Chelsea knows, that's the only outcome of her report.

[Chelsea]

So to this day, this guy will stand out there and scream that he was in this relationship with this crazy woman who's trying to ruin his life. And you know, that I was the bad guy.

[Andrea Gunning]

As for Eric, he pled guilty to distributing child sexual abuse material and was sentenced to 12 years in federal prison. That same year, Chelsea decided to move across the country and start over.

[Chelsea]

It ended up taking about four years before I was able to confidently say that these things happened and not doubt myself, not blame myself, not think that this is my fault or my responsibility. And today, I'm really proud to say I have created the life I've always dreamed of. And I'm glad that every day now going forward is better than any day that I've had before this happened. So there's a rebirth in it.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you choose to tell your story?

[Chelsea]

The reason I reached out is I was just so inspired by the stories that were shared. I was so inspired listening to other survivors and the ability to retell this story and release it is so significant. And I hope that someone else hearing this feels empowered to do the same. These kinds of things only exist in a world of silence and denial. And I hope by breaking my silence, it allows someone else to feel empowered to break their own. Whether they got a conviction, whether the police took it seriously, whether their abuser acknowledged it, whether their family believed it, it doesn't make it your fault. It happened and it was never your fault.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal. This was the first time I was seeing him in four years, and I remember being like, I am in big trouble. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayal p o dmail.com we're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and Review Betrayal by 5 star reviews Go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristen Melchiori and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Del Vecchio Additional editing support from Nico Aruka and Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by Mike and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your pod.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Black Friday is coming. And for the adults in your life who love the coolest toys, well, there's something for them this year too. Bartisian is the premier craft cocktail maker that automatically makes more than 60 seasonal and classic cocktails each in under 30 seconds at the push of a button. And right now Bartisian is having a huge site wide sale. You can get $100 off any cocktail maker or cocktail maker bundle when you spend $400 or more. So if the cocktail lover in your life has been good this year or the right kind of bad, get them Bartesian at the push of a button. Make bar quality Cosmopolitans, Martinis, Manhattans and more all in just 30 seconds. All for 100 off amazing toys, not just for kids. Get a hundred off a cocktail maker when you spend 400 through Cyber Monday. Visit bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot com cocktail now streaming on Prime Video.

[Chelsea]

You can call me Detective Alex Cross.

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[Chelsea]

We have to catch this serial killer. I don't kill for fun.

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[Chelsea]

Ms. Kevin thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

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[Chelsea]

If we don't find him soon, we.

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[Andrea Gunning]

Clock's ticking.

[Chelsea]

You think you can stop him? I know I can. Cuz I know him better than he knows himself.

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[Chelsea]

This holiday season. Surprise everyone on your list with the best gifts. Tickets to see their favorite artists live. Choose from thousands of concerts and comedy shows including Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, Matt Matthews, Metallica, Thomas Rhett, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Sarah Silverman and so many more. Share a memory together or give a gift they'll never forget. Find the most exciting gift for every [e-mail] gifts that's livenation.com gifts.