EP 24 - Deb

Summary

Betrayal: Weekly – Episode 24: Deb

Release Date: January 16, 2025

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Introduction

Betrayal: Weekly, hosted by Andrea Gunning, delves into real-life stories of broken trust, deception, and the resilience of individuals overcoming profound betrayals. In Episode 24, titled "Deb," Andrea interviews Deb Proctor, a retired senior director of her tribe's domestic violence program and a former nurse. This episode unpacks Deb's harrowing journey through betrayal, addiction, and ultimate healing after discovering her husband, Jeff Walton, was living a fabricated life.

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Deb Proctor's Early Life and Background

Deb Proctor hails from the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma, deeply rooted in her Native American heritage. Her resilience stems from witnessing intergenerational trauma; Deb recounts, “[...] my grandmother was a survivor of many, many situations in her life” (03:40). Her father, also a victim of unresolved trauma, served as a councilman, instilling in Deb a strong sense of community service and leadership.

Growing up in an environment marked by violence and emotional turmoil, Deb developed acute intuition and sensitivity, traits that later played a pivotal role in recognizing deception. She shares, “When you mention bullshit detectors, I can spot them a football field away or further” (02:55).

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Meeting and Marrying Jeff Walton

At 41, after years of focusing on her sons and personal healing post-divorce, Deb ventured into online dating—a novel concept in 1997. She connected with Jeff Walton, whose romantic profile and shared interests in golf and Native American culture captivated her. Deb recalls, “I was just smitten with him” (08:40).

Their correspondence was swift and meaningful, leading to a memorable in-person meeting where Jeff proposed, to which Deb eagerly accepted. They married on April 23, 2000, marking the anniversary of their first meeting. Jeff's charisma and shared passions made Deb believe she had found her soulmate.

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Life Together and Marriage Challenges

Initially, Deb and Jeff enjoyed a harmonious marriage, bonding over activities like golf. However, subtle tensions surfaced during their first golf trip when Jeff inexplicably won a game, leading Deb's friends to distance themselves from him. Deb notes, “I felt like everybody was mistreating him” (14:58), hinting at underlying issues.

As Jeff struggled to secure steady employment, Deb discovered discrepancies in his background. An old resume revealed he was a Vietnam veteran—information Jeff had never disclosed. Confronted, Jeff provided an elaborate but questionable war story, deepening Deb's suspicions. She states, “He was a scam, but there's no charges that I could file” (39:22).

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Jeff's Health Crisis and Initial Suspicions

A turning point occurred when Jeff suffered a major heart attack, necessitating ongoing medical care. Deb insisted on utilizing VA resources, but Jeff's reluctance raised red flags. He revealed that he was dishonorably discharged for reporting office misconduct, a claim that didn’t align with Deb's understanding of his supposed military service. This discrepancy fueled her doubts about his true identity.

Complications intensified when Jeff experienced a stroke, resulting in memory loss contradicting the neurologist's assessment. Deb's frustration grew as Jeff refused further assistance, leading her to question his authenticity. “Every day I would come home and I would go, well share your story with me. Oh, I couldn't work on it today” (26:59).

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Discovery of the Betrayal

The revelation came unexpectedly when Canadian police contacted Deb, searching for Ron Stan, a missing person presumed dead after a barn fire in 1977. The officer explained that Ron Stan had been living under the alias Jeff Walton within the Cherokee Nation. Deb was aghast, realizing her husband was a complete fraud. She recounts, “My whole body responded, and all I could think of was, who are you? How could you do this?” (36:14).

Further investigation unveiled that Jeff had faked his death to escape impending trouble related to inappropriate relationships with young college girls. He had meticulously constructed his new identity, even securing Social Security benefits under a stolen name. Deb learns, “He used this Social Security and false name. I don't know how anybody pulls this off” (41:31).

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Aftermath and Emotional Recovery

Shaken by the betrayal, Deb sought immediate legal action, filing for divorce with assistance from her tribe’s domestic violence services. The media frenzy that followed added to her turmoil, as Deb navigated through public scrutiny and personal heartbreak. She describes the emotional devastation, “I just remember it was a profound moment... How does another human do this to a human in the guise of love?” (45:44).

To cope, Deb enrolled in a 30-day rehab program, confronting her addiction to alcohol which had become a coping mechanism. This period of sobriety granted her clarity, allowing her to reassess Jeff's behavior critically. Deb emphasizes, “I made a commitment to go forward, I will keep my sobriety” (47:04), highlighting her determination to rebuild her life.

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Current Life and Lessons Learned

Eleven years into her sobriety, Deb found new love, marrying a man who shares her interests and commitment to sobriety. Their relationship stands as a testament to her belief in open-heartedness and personal resilience. Deb reflects, “If my story could help others identify lies from their partner earlier... We can heal and we can have a good life” (50:14).

Her professional life flourished as she took on a leadership role within her tribe, providing support to domestic violence victims. Deb attributes her effectiveness to the personal healing journey she undertook, asserting, “We can't help others adequately or appropriately if we haven't begun our own work to heal” (48:23).

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Conclusion

Deb Proctor's story, as shared in Betrayal: Weekly, underscores the profound impact of deception and the strength required to overcome it. Her journey from betrayal to healing serves as an inspiring narrative of resilience, self-discovery, and the power of maintaining an open heart despite profound hurt. Deb’s commitment to helping others and her ability to rebuild her life exemplify the human capacity to rise above even the most devastating betrayals.

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Notable Quotes

• Deb Proctor (02:55): “When you mention bullshit detectors, I can spot them a football field away or further.”

• Deb Proctor (08:40): “I was just smitten with him.”

• Deb Proctor (14:58): “I felt like everybody was mistreating him.”

• Deb Proctor (26:59): “Every day I would come home and I would go, well share your story with me. Oh, I couldn't work on it today.”

• Deb Proctor (36:14): “My whole body responded, and all I could think of was, who are you? How could you do this?”

• Deb Proctor (41:31): “He used this Social Security and false name. I don't know how anybody pulls this off.”

• Deb Proctor (45:44): “I just remember it was a profound moment... How does another human do this to a human in the guise of love?”

• Deb Proctor (47:04): “I made a commitment to go forward, I will keep my sobriety.”

• Deb Proctor (50:14): “If my story could help others identify lies from their partner earlier... We can heal and we can have a good life.”

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Timestamp Reference

For easy navigation, noteworthy moments in Deb's story are marked with timestamps corresponding to the transcript:

• 02:55: Deb's intuition and ability to detect deceit.
• 08:40: Deb's enchantment with Jeff Walton.
• 14:58: Friends' reaction to Jeff during golf trip.
• 26:59: Deb's strategy to uncover Jeff's true identity.
• 36:14: Realization of Jeff’s true identity.
• 41:31: Jeff's use of a false identity.
• 45:44: Emotional impact of betrayal.
• 47:04: Commitment to sobriety and moving forward.
• 50:14: Motivations behind sharing her story.

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Listen to Episode 24: Deb on Betrayal: Weekly to explore this compelling story of trust, deception, and resilience.

Transcript

[Andrea Gunning]

Amazon One Medical presents painful thoughts.

[Deb Proctor]

I could catch anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room.

[Andrea Gunning]

A kid just wiped his runny nose.

[Deb Proctor]

On my jacket and the guy next to me sitting in a pool of.

[Andrea Gunning]

Perspiration insists on sharing my armrest. Next time, make an appointment with an.

[Deb Proctor]

Amazon One medical provider.

[Andrea Gunning]

There's no waiting and no sweaty guy.

[Deb Proctor]

Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.

[Andrea Gunning]

This week we discuss and celebrate who a master detective, a super sleuth who loves true crime as much as us? Better. It's cheap Caribbean's 25th anniversary sale. That's 25 good reasons to set your out of Office message until February 3rd. You can unlock up to $250 off all inclusive vacation packages sitewide. I'm going to need a portable charger for all these vacation picks. Visit CheapCaribbean.com for up to $250 off. Offer ends February 3rd.

[Unknown]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Unknown]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Andrea Gunning]

Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of.

[Unknown]

At Amica, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking. It's human. Amica empathy is our best policy.

[Deb Proctor]

It was a profound moment. It's the duality of. Oh my God. What in the world? Who is this crazy rule? Who can pull this off? Whose friends pull it off? How do you fabricate the details like that?

[Andrea Gunning]

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, A show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

[Deb Proctor]

My real name is Deborah, but typically everyone calls me Deb.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb Proctor grew up on the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma. She recently retired from her role as the senior director of her tribe's domestic violence program. And before that, she spent her entire career as a nurse.

[Deb Proctor]

After being a re in for. Well, now it's been 48 and a half years.

[Andrea Gunning]

Like a lot of people in the medical profession, she developed a keen sense for when someone is lying.

[Deb Proctor]

When you mention bullshit detectors, I can spot them a football field away or further.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb is Cherokee and proud of her Native American heritage.

[Deb Proctor]

My grandmother, who lived until she was 99 years old, she is actually our family's original enrollee, which means she is on the Dawes Roll.

[Andrea Gunning]

The Dawes Roll was a list compiled by the US government in the late 1800s and early 1900s. It named about 100,000 Native Americans who were allotted land which Was pretty unusual.

[Deb Proctor]

To have an original Rolle in your life.

[Andrea Gunning]

For most of it growing up, Deb's grandmother was a constant presence and a source of inspiration.

[Deb Proctor]

I think I got a lot of my proctor will and strength and courage from her. She was born before statehood, and she was still stacking her own wood when she was in her early 90s. She was a survivor of many, many situations in her life.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her grandmother experienced a lot of violence firsthand. Deb's father did too. As a child, his own father was murdered in front of him.

[Deb Proctor]

Those life events are what gives the background and the experience to what we would call intergenerational trauma or historical trauma.

[Andrea Gunning]

She saw the impact of that on her family. There was alcoholism and emotional turmoil, and when she was young, Deb struggled to process it.

[Deb Proctor]

When you're a very sensitive nature child, your little heart's open and you're intuitive, you pick up that energy.

[Andrea Gunning]

From a young age, she experienced violence and abuse herself.

[Deb Proctor]

The violence I experienced, I truly am a heart. Know that it's as a result of those that could not heal.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb believes her father's unresolved trauma led him to become a civil servant.

[Deb Proctor]

He taught me a lot about community service. He would be in his vehicle, driving through the rural areas, seeing what the natives needed. And ultimately he was a councilman for our tribe, Served many, many years.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb grew up quickly in more ways than in fact. On her 16th birthday, her high school boyfriend surprised her.

[Deb Proctor]

They had a birthday party for me and he asked me to marry him, and I accepted. That was the day I turned 16.

[Andrea Gunning]

But her engagement didn't distract her from prioritizing education. Her father insisted that she earn an advanced degree.

[Deb Proctor]

He was the one in the family who said, you must have an education. And so at age 17, I did start college, and I finished at 19 with my first RN degree. That was as a result of my dad pushing me.

[Andrea Gunning]

Before she even had a chance to know herself. She was married and working as a full time nurse.

[Deb Proctor]

I mean, I'm running the hospital as a baby nurse. I'd probably turn 20, maybe 21 by then. It was tough, but I spent a good part of my energy on trying to achieve perfection.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb and her husband shared a very similar upbringing.

[Deb Proctor]

He came from a violent background, very similar to mine. And so we just went together like peanut butter and jelly.

[Andrea Gunning]

They had two sons together. But a few years into marriage, her husband's behavior became a problem.

[Deb Proctor]

He struggled with drugs and drinking, and he had violent tendencies. It was really hard.

[Andrea Gunning]

She eventually left her husband and resolved to end the cycle of violence to make a safe and stable environment for her and her two sons.

[Deb Proctor]

And so for many years, I remained single and just spent time with myself and the boys. And so for the next few years after we divorced, I sought to understand. I bought books, I joined book clubs, anything on self understanding.

[Andrea Gunning]

She started going to therapy and joined support groups for families impacted by alcoholism. She was creating a better life for herself and for her sons. When her sons became teenagers, she looked.

[Deb Proctor]

Around and realized I did want a partner in life. You know, someone to enjoy life that I meant something to, that I mattered to.

[Andrea Gunning]

She was 41 and felt ready to explore a new partnership. So she made an online dating profile. This was 1997, back when online dating was a novel concept.

[Deb Proctor]

Yeah, this ain't bumble. This ain't. Yeah, this is none of that stuff.

[Andrea Gunning]

One man piqued her interest. His name was Jeff Walton.

[Deb Proctor]

His profile was just romantic. It was something like, I'm looking for my Guinevere.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jeff said he wanted to treat his next partner like a queen. Deb wrote him an email. He lived a couple states away in Kentucky, but their conversation flowed easily. And Deb quickly discovered they shared the same interests. They both loved golf. And Jeff wanted to hear more about Deb's Cherokee culture.

[Deb Proctor]

You know, the music, a spiritual journey. He loved the Native American spiritual practices. And when I talked to him, I was just smitten with him.

[Andrea Gunning]

She looked forward to his phone calls and emails.

[Deb Proctor]

I saved all of that. I printed everything. I had a huge 3 inch purple binder with all of our exchanges.

[Andrea Gunning]

As they got closer, she got to know more about his backstory.

[Deb Proctor]

He was born in Alaska and moved to Canada.

[Andrea Gunning]

He was a dual citizen of Canada and the United States. And he had a complicated relationship with his biological family.

[Deb Proctor]

He didn't know his real dad. His stepdad was very violent. And he would share stories like, you know, his stepdad murdered the family poodle in front of his sister and his mom and him. And, I mean, it was horrible stories.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb had seen her share of violence as well. She understood what it was like. So they bonded over their difficult childhoods. Jeff's family was still in Canada, but they'd fallen out of touch. He moved to New Orleans as a young man, and along the way, he picked up the accent.

[Deb Proctor]

So when he would talk to me on the phone, he would have that, you know, dialect. He would say, hello, darlin, and yeah, I can't do it, but it was definitely New Orleans.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jeff's ex wife and adult son still lived in New Orleans, but after his divorce, he'd taken a job in Kentucky.

[Deb Proctor]

He was a project manager for a big construction company that, you know, worked on Toyota plants, that worked on the University of Kentucky that had done all this great work.

[Andrea Gunning]

Jeff was the kind of person who'd lived a million lives in one.

[Deb Proctor]

He just fascinated me. He was a pilot and played football for Woody Hayes at Ohio State and was phenomenal.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb could really see herself with this guy.

[Deb Proctor]

We're going to embark upon this journey together. We love music, we love golf. We're both seekers. I just was so excited about meeting this man.

[Andrea Gunning]

After a year of talking, they decided to finally meet each other in person. Jeff flew to Oklahoma, and when he arrived at the airport, she was waiting for him with a gift.

[Deb Proctor]

I'd had a traditional healer, a medicine man, had gone to him and asked him to bead a feather. There was a song by Robbie Robertson, and the name of it was Golden Feather. Give my love a golden feather and if you were to look it up, it's so that I never lose my way home. And I thought, what a beautiful expression of love for this new man in my life to give him a feather because he loves that Native American song so much. So I met him at the playing with that, and I said, here's so you can always find your way home.

[Andrea Gunning]

And Jeff had come with a surprise of his own.

[Deb Proctor]

As soon as he got off the plane and he was walking toward me, it seemed like his voice was shaking. And he said, you will marry me, won't you? You're going to marry me, right? You are marrying me, right?

[Andrea Gunning]

That was Jeff's marriage proposal.

[Deb Proctor]

And I was like, well, of course. Of course, yes.

[Andrea Gunning]

The weekend could not have gone better. Jeff wanted to get to know her world.

[Deb Proctor]

You know, I drove around, showing the rural area my history, some of the culture where I worked. We went out to my golf course. I introduced him to a lot of my friends, met the family. It was just a really good weekend. I just loved him. Just loved him.

[Andrea Gunning]

They started making arrangements for him to move to Oklahoma.

[Deb Proctor]

And I'm a planner and an organizer in every aspect of my life. So, shoot. The next thing you know, I'm getting busy. I'm helping him find jobs. He's getting his resume. Of course, we're still using faxes then. And he would send things, and I would write cover letters for him to help him get relocated.

[Andrea Gunning]

A few months later, Jeff moved in. They spent the next year planning a small family wedding in the Ozarks.

[Deb Proctor]

We married on April 23, 2000.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was the anniversary of the day they met in person. Deb's youngest son walked her down the aisle, and Jeff's son, little Jeff, flew in to support his dad. It was a true merging of their lives.

[Deb Proctor]

I really thought it was meant to be.

[Andrea Gunning]

They planned their first trip together as newlyweds. A golf trip with Deb's group of friends. Deb had been golfing for her entire life. Every year, she and her friends traveled the country to play. Jeff was eager to join. He'd been an avid golfer when he was younger, but he hadn't played in years.

[Deb Proctor]

So he lost his golf clubs. Well, heck, you know, I gotta go buying golf clubs, you know, because, you know, he's got to have golf clubs if we're going to play. So then he needed lessons because he just hadn't got to play in a while, he said needed to brush up.

[Andrea Gunning]

But on their first golf trip with.

[Deb Proctor]

Her friends, once we got all the scores in and everything, the winner was him. And I was like, well, golly, great job.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Deb's friends were standoffish with Jeff about his win. And one of her friends was quick to point out, a real golfer is.

[Deb Proctor]

Not going to leave their clubs behind. It doesn't make sense.

[Andrea Gunning]

Her friends had never acted like this before. She didn't know what happened, and neither did Jeff. But after that, they weren't invited on any more golf trips.

[Deb Proctor]

I felt like everybody was mistreating him.

[Andrea Gunning]

A year into their marriage, Jeff was still struggling to find the right job in Oklahoma. One day, when Deb was helping him with an application, well, I found an.

[Deb Proctor]

Old resume, and on this particular resume, it says Vietnam veteran. I was like, my God.

[Andrea Gunning]

He'd never told her he was a veteran. But Deb had a lot of experience with the va. While getting her advanced nursing degree, she worked on a program at the VA that specifically studied Vietnam veterans with ptsd.

[Deb Proctor]

I'm like, you never told me you were a veteran. You never told me you were in the Vietnam War. That is a significant event in life. I was flabbergasted. It had never come up. And he said, well, I don't like to talk about it, Deb. I use it on my resumes because I, you know, that ought to tell you something. I was like, but she should have told me. I should never found out here.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb felt like he needed to talk about it, even if he didn't want to. She'd had firsthand experience with veterans and.

[Deb Proctor]

Ptsd, and so over the course of time, he began to tell me what happened. It was an elaborate story, intricate details.

[Andrea Gunning]

As an 18 year old, he'd been in the Special Forces in Vietnam. One night he caught his senior officers using drugs. Fearing he would turn them in, the officers allowed Jeff to be captured. He was held as a prisoner of war, and for months he was tortured.

[Deb Proctor]

And they busted his feet with the butt of a gun so that he couldn't walk. But he got out and he escaped. And he made it back to the US Forces by following the path of a stream. And it was so difficult because his feet were busted up.

[Andrea Gunning]

He was taken to a veterans hospital.

[Deb Proctor]

He had to have metal put in his feet because they were broken and if we flew anywhere, it would trigger the metal, metal alarms as you go in.

[Andrea Gunning]

He recovered physically and was discharged, but psychologically he was scarred.

[Deb Proctor]

The trauma was so bad, he said, it was just so awful that sometimes he would just get in a closet and he would just hide.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb was worried about his mental health, especially because his support system was thin. He was in a new place and wasn't in touch with his biological family. So Deb was happy when his siblings reached out to reconnect. They invited him back to Canada.

[Deb Proctor]

His siblings had said that his mother's 80th birthday party was coming up and they wanted him to come. And he talked to me about it and I said, well, we've got to. I've never met any of your family. And absolutely.

[Andrea Gunning]

A few months later, they flew to Alberta to meet his family. They hadn't seen Jeff in decades. They were elated to welcome him home. And Deb never thought she'd get the chance to meet his siblings.

[Deb Proctor]

I finally got to meet his family. I was just so excited to be there and to meet them and, you know, at one of the brothers houses, we might play games and just chat and get to know each other.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb fit right in.

[Deb Proctor]

We didn't have any serious meaningful conversations about life or anything. We were just doing a friendly, cordial, meet the family thing. He was upbeat, everyone was upbeat. It was a good trip.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was a good trip. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Deb didn't know it at the time, but everyone there was in on a secret. Everyone except for her. Her husband. Jeff wasn't who he said he was. In fact, everyone in his family knew Jeff by a different name.

[Deb Proctor]

Come to find out, he met his siblings at the door and told him, I'm going by Jeff Walton now. I'll tell you later.

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[Andrea Gunning]

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[Unknown]

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[Unknown]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Deb and her husband went to Canada to reconnect with his estranged family. And to her surprise, the trip was a success. Meeting his family brought the two of them closer. But one day after they Returned from their trip, Jeff collapsed on the golf course.

[Deb Proctor]

And a friend of ours found him sitting up against a tree and wanted him to let him take him into the hospital. And he said, no, just take me to my car. And so he did. He got in his car and he drove home.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb met him at their house and forced him to go to the hospital. Jeff had suffered a major heart attack. It would require ongoing care. But Jeff still hadn't nailed down a steady job. So the couple needed help covering his medical expenses. Deb had worked at the VA years ago and insisted it was their best resource.

[Deb Proctor]

And he absolutely said, I will not go. I don't trust the government, I'm not going. And I said, well, that's bullshit. We're going broke. We've got to get your health care.

[Andrea Gunning]

That's when Jeff explained the VA wouldn't take him.

[Deb Proctor]

He said, they don't even have a list of me because I was dishonorably discharged because I reported the office. They won't even have me on, well, anything to do with the va. And I said, that's bullshit. You were a soldier. You were captured. And he said, I won't go. He got up and he never talked about it again. In that moment, I was like, that is weird.

[Andrea Gunning]

His explanation just didn't add up. Deb even considered hiring someone to look into Jeff's background.

[Deb Proctor]

I wonder if I need to get a private investigator or something. And I logged on to the Internet. And then I was like, God, I don't have any money to get a private detective.

[Andrea Gunning]

She didn't have the money or the time to hire a PI. Shortly after Jeff's heart attack, he had a stroke. Then his memory began to falter. All the while he was refusing to go to the va. It financially strained the family and Deb was at a loss.

[Deb Proctor]

I had begun to say, I do not know what is wrong with my life. How am I going to get this guy health care? He's got to have health care.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb was his primary caretaker on top of her full time nursing job. It was overwhelming.

[Deb Proctor]

I began to drink and then I drank heavily and then it was uncontrollably.

[Andrea Gunning]

Alcohol became an escape from her marriage and its problems.

[Deb Proctor]

When I started drinking, I didn't have to be confused anymore because my brain was numb.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb had spent so many years taking care of other people that she neglected herself.

[Deb Proctor]

I was the person that was going to Al anon from the mid-80s, taking family, taking coworkers, taking friends to Aa Na rehab. I was taking Everybody to get help but myself had, I guess, reached just a hard stop where I couldn't deal with it.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb had just turned 50 and had been with Jeff for a decade. But life with him was becoming harder year after year. At first, he failed to bring in a steady income. Then when he became sick, he refused resources for affordable health care. Deb turned to booze for the stress. But one day, after a long night of drinking, she found herself too shaky to put the golf ball on the tee. She checked herself into a 30 day rehab.

[Deb Proctor]

Best move I ever made. I'm not going to tell you it was pretty, it was ugly. But there's always been a driving force within me to rise above.

[Andrea Gunning]

Being alone in rehab gave her a lot of clarity. And with that clarity came questions specifically about Jeff. When she left rehab, she looked at Jeff's behavior with a new set of eyes.

[Deb Proctor]

I began to really observe. He was strange. Something was not right. Not right.

[Andrea Gunning]

She wasn't ready to leave the marriage. Her focus was on her new sobriety. But she did come up with a plan to get some answers out of Jeff. She gave him an assignment.

[Deb Proctor]

And I began to say to him, jeff, every day while I'm at work, I want you to work on your life story because I don't understand it. You told me you were born in Alaska and you moved to Canada, but I don't know where you even went to school. I don't even know when you moved to Canada. If something happens, I'm going to be honest with you, I can't even write an obituary.

[Andrea Gunning]

She thought it would be a good exercise for both of them, and she hoped it could help her understand why. Why he was the way he was.

[Deb Proctor]

And so every day I would come home and I would go, well, share your story with me. Oh, I couldn't work on it today.

[Andrea Gunning]

After his stroke, Jeff's memory was worse than ever.

[Deb Proctor]

He began to claim that he just didn't have much of a memory. But the neurologist at the time of his stroke had already advised me that the stroke was not going to impact his memory. And he wanted me to get him checked for possible early dementia.

[Andrea Gunning]

He needed more care than she could provide at home. So she applied for him to be in a funded outpatient care facility and he was accepted.

[Deb Proctor]

It's a wonderful program that, where you stay in your home, but they basically have a center that's open during the day and there's activities and transportation. There's clinic on site, everything that you could need. And if you need something Outside, they'll take you.

[Andrea Gunning]

He started going to the center every day.

[Deb Proctor]

That was until the program called me and they said, have you talked to Jeff? Because nobody can find him. He's gone.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb was at work. She didn't know where he was. With his memory issues, she worried he could have gotten lost. So they called the police.

[Deb Proctor]

Come to find out he had left the group and the care team to go to the bank.

[Andrea Gunning]

When Deb got there, Jeff seemed confused about what was happening. The whole situation confirmed that he really needed this facility. His memory must be worse than she thought. But shortly after Jeff's incident at the bank, Deb received another phone call. Only this one would change her life forever.

[Deb Proctor]

It was a number I didn't recognizing. I typically didn't pick those up in my office.

[Andrea Gunning]

It was an international call. But Deb had a strange feeling when she picked up. There was a police officer on the.

[Deb Proctor]

Other line and I was like, what is this about?

[Andrea Gunning]

The officer was Canadian and he was investigating a cold case from 30 years ago.

[Deb Proctor]

That's when he began to say that they were looking for Ron Stan. And they had believe that they've tracked him down through social media.

[Andrea Gunning]

But Deb didn't know a Ron Stan. The officer continued explaining that Canadian police had been looking for a man named Ron stan for over 30 years. He disappeared during a fire.

[Deb Proctor]

There was a fire in his barn at night and initially he was presumed to have have been in that fire. And he had left a wife, an infant and another child.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb's blood ran cold. She knew what the officer was about to say before he said it. The man she was married to, who she knew as Jeff Walton, was actually.

[Deb Proctor]

The complete fraud he was. Ron Stan. Who was this missing person?

[Andrea Gunning]

Here's the thing about Ron Stan. He was originally declared dead, but in reality he'd been on the run ever since that barn fire.

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[Deb Proctor]

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[Andrea Gunning]

Eleven years into her marriage, Deb Proctor got a phone call out of the blue from a Canadian police officer. They were looking for Ron Stan, a Canadian man who'd been missing and later declared dead after an arson fire in 1977. And they believed they'd found him in the United States. He was hiding out in a rural part of the Cherokee Nation using the name Jeff Walton. When the police explained this to Deb.

[Deb Proctor]

Initially I thought it was perhaps just a cruel joke.

[Andrea Gunning]

So she asked the officer for proof. For details.

[Deb Proctor]

The more I pushed for dates, times, names, locations, the more I realized, oh.

[Andrea Gunning]

She didn't say much on the phone. She just listened, writing down everything the.

[Deb Proctor]

Police told her, every detail. Dates, times, information. I still have that notepad.

[Andrea Gunning]

Canadian officials wanted to speak to Jeff or Ron directly. Deb explained that he was in a care facility during the day because of his memory problems. She confirmed their home address, thanked the officer, and hung up the phone in disbelief.

[Deb Proctor]

I was sitting there when there was a nurse that looked at me from the office door, and she said, are you okay? I remember saying, I don't know. I've just had the most bizarre phone call. So I went to talk to my director of nursing, and she said, get out of here. What in the world?

[Andrea Gunning]

She debated whether this phone call was real or if the person on the phone was even a police officer. A co worker who was afraid for Deb suggested another possibility.

[Deb Proctor]

He probably is in witness protection, and you just blew it, so you're probably not safe, nor is he. And they said, we'll go with you to the Cherokee Nation Marshals and we will get to the bottom of this.

[Andrea Gunning]

So Deb went straight there. She wanted to know if the call she'd received was real or if Jeff could be in witness protection. An investigator took Deb's concerns seriously and started making calls.

[Deb Proctor]

I gave her the cell number, the badge number, and everything from the officer that called. And she did call, and she confirmed every last detail.

[Andrea Gunning]

She verified that Jeff Walton didn't exist. Her husband of 11 years was a missing person, a man named Ronald Stan, who'd faked his death in an arson fire and had been on the run for 30 years.

[Deb Proctor]

I was just heart sick, gut sick, heart sick. My whole body responded, and all I could think of was, who are you? How could you do this?

[Andrea Gunning]

When Ronald Stan disappeared from his farm in rural Ontario in 1977, he abandoned his wife and two young sons in order to escape. He had lit his barn on fire, killing all the animals. His family watched the blaze, helpless, fearing that Ron was trapped inside that poor.

[Deb Proctor]

Wife and those two sons that he walked away from in this barn fire in the middle of the night. What horror, what pain, what trauma that they must have endured, thinking that they were watching him burn up in front of their eyes.

[Andrea Gunning]

Why he'd faked his death, Deb wouldn't find out until much later. In that moment, she just knew she couldn't go home, not to the house just she shared with him. He was a criminal, a fraud, a total stranger. So the Cherokee marshals helped her come up with an immediate plan.

[Deb Proctor]

Go to an attorney, go the bank and get protection. So that's what I did.

[Andrea Gunning]

She made an appointment with a divorce attorney for the following day, and a friend offered to let Deb stay at her place while she figured out her Next move.

[Deb Proctor]

I just was in a state of robot, just trying to put one foot in front of the other and then formulate a plan on how to tell the family.

[Andrea Gunning]

She met with her sons to break the news. And with all of their support, she called Jeff's son, the one he'd had in America after he went on the run. After all, he was the only child Deb knew about.

[Deb Proctor]

I loved that boy. He was my son too, you know, he was a third son, so my heart hurt for him just like it did for my boys to tell him.

[Andrea Gunning]

Everyone in the family called him Little Jeff. He was named after his father, or rather his father's alias.

[Deb Proctor]

And his response was, you know, silent initially, as you can imagine, and then just struggling. We both needed some time to just deal.

[Andrea Gunning]

The one person she didn't want to speak with was Jeff.

[Deb Proctor]

I really did not have any communication with him whatsoever. I just had nothing to say.

[Andrea Gunning]

When the authorities finally got a hold of Jeff, they questioned him and asked to see his proof of identity.

[Deb Proctor]

He admitted to everything.

[Andrea Gunning]

In fact, he seemed amused. He made a joke to police officers, asking what took them so long because the arson had happened so long ago. The statute of limitations had expired in Canada and authorities in the US Couldn't charge him either.

[Deb Proctor]

There was no charges to be made here. You know, he's a scam, but there's no charges that I could file.

[Andrea Gunning]

The only legal action Deb could take was filing for divorce.

[Deb Proctor]

The domestic violence service of the tribe helped me and just took the papers. And when they served in the papers, he just signed it. He didn't even question it.

[Andrea Gunning]

The news caught wind of the story and it was a media frenzy.

[Deb Proctor]

Media showed up from Canada, from Oklahoma, some the uk. I just didn't have any peace. I could rarely go home. My phone rang constantly. I was just completely overwhelmed.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb's niece drafted a statement to send to the press on her behalf. And Deb kept tabs on the news. That's how she learned Jeff's real life story, the one he claimed he couldn't remember. A journalist with the Toronto Star had been reporting on it. Through their investigation, they uncovered a possible motivation for why he faked his death.

[Deb Proctor]

Evidently, he was messing with young college girls and he was getting ready to get in trouble.

[Andrea Gunning]

At the time of the arson, Ron was working at a college in Canada. He was having a relationship with a local girl who was much younger. The day he went missing, it seemed this information was about to be revealed. It's not clear how old the girl was, but the threat of being discovered prompted him to go on the run for three decades. Deb also learned how he pulled it off.

[Deb Proctor]

When he left Canada in the fire and came to New Orleans, he said, I've got to find a woman with money.

[Andrea Gunning]

He did. In fact, he had two other marriages he'd never told Deb about. And after he found a woman with money, he needed papers to validate his his new identity.

[Deb Proctor]

He got a Social Security from somebody that had died in the 70s, a girl. So he took over her Social Security.

[Andrea Gunning]

He used his stolen identity to find work and even collect Social Security benefits.

[Deb Proctor]

That's how he worked in the decades that he came to the United States. He used this Social Security and false name. I don't know how anybody pulls this off. It's so elaborate.

[Andrea Gunning]

When the story broke, Jeff himself spoke to the media about how and why he faked his death. And he seemed to revel in it.

[Deb Proctor]

He sought that attention. He wanted to be a star.

[Andrea Gunning]

He said he chose the name Jeff because it was the name of his infant son he abandoned in Canada. And the last name, Walton, was inspired by the TV show the Waltons. It sounded like a classic American last name. As for the documents he used to marry Deb, they appeared to be forged.

[Deb Proctor]

I had seen his birth certificate, and I still have it. But when you look, there are things.

[Andrea Gunning]

That have been changed, like the arson. Too much time had passed for him to be charged in the US with identity fraud. And what about his elaborate stories, like being a prisoner of war in Vietnam?

[Deb Proctor]

It's all made up.

[Andrea Gunning]

That's why he was so resistant to using the VA he never fought in the Vietnam War. He wasn't even an American citizen. The POW story, well, he ripped those details straight out of a movie called Platoon, starring Charlie Sheen. And his football career at Ohio State State with Woody Hayes.

[Deb Proctor]

There was never anybody that played football for Woody Hayes by his name, ever.

[Andrea Gunning]

Deb was left wondering if anything he'd ever told her was true. Today she doubts if he'd even swung a golf club before she met him. After all his lies were exposed, one of Deb's friends finally came clean about something. Remember the golf trip where Deb's friends iced them out? Well, back then, the group had discovered.

[Deb Proctor]

That he cheated all day. He never counts his strokes, and when he was out of bounds, he never counted it.

[Andrea Gunning]

He cheated and basically stole a pot of money from Deb's friends. That's why they were never invited to play with the group again. Even his memory issues were a lie. When he talked to the press after the fact. He seemed to remember every detail just fine. So what was really going on that day? When he went missing from the facility and was found at the bank, Deb suspects he was planning an escape. She also wonders if he targeted her because she lives in a rural part of the Cherokee Nation.

[Deb Proctor]

It's very possible because look, this is rural, this is a dead end road. Maybe he did send, hey, I can get out in the woods in rural Oklahoma and continue to hide.

[Andrea Gunning]

One of the most baffling aspects of his deception is that visit to Canada a few years into their marriage. Back then, the reunion seemed completely normal. But behind the scenes, Jeff had asked all of his family members to use his new name instead of calling him Ron. They said they were so happy to see him again that they obliged.

[Deb Proctor]

They did it because they'd lost him once and they didn't want to lose him again. I think they were just so happy to have him back in their lives.

[Andrea Gunning]

There's clearly so much more to his family dynamics than she'll ever know. It still doesn't sit right with her.

[Deb Proctor]

What makes it okay that you support this kind of deception?

[Andrea Gunning]

In the beginning, she didn't even know how to refer to him, what name to call him by, whether to call him Ron or Jeff.

[Deb Proctor]

But I had a really dear friend, she nicknamed him Ref. And so for a while, when I referred to him it was Ref. But now I usually just say Jeff.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the weeks after his double life was revealed, Deb was emotionally destroyed. It all happened in her first year of sobriety. Jeff moved back to New Orleans with his son and Deb was left alone in the house they shared.

[Deb Proctor]

I just remember it was a profound moment. It's the duality of, oh my God, what in the world? Along with, you have to live, you have to deal with this and go on. And I remember just laying in the fool, just face down and just sobbing and saying, my God, how does another human do this to a human in the guise of love?

[Andrea Gunning]

In that moment, she couldn't get up. It felt like her world had ended.

[Deb Proctor]

I just had so much pain and confusion. I got on my knees, I leaned into a chair and I just kept praying and asking for help and just, if you can get me on my feet, I will go forward, I will keep my sobriety. I promise, I promise. I made a commitment to live life, to help others, to be the best person I can, to be loving, kind. I mean, those were the things I'd always been. But I was not going to let this make me harsh and hateful.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the throes of despair, she gained vivid clarity.

[Deb Proctor]

You know, we often talk of spiritual awakenings. I feel like I've had a few in my life, but that was profound, profound. And when I stood up, you know, I was still crying, but I wasn't suffering as much. I didn't feel the pain as deep at the betrayal or shock. And I knew that when I stood up that it was something greater than me. It said, get up, you got work to do. Go on.

[Andrea Gunning]

She got up that day and she's stayed on her feet ever since.

[Deb Proctor]

I made a commitment to do that in that moment and I've never turned back and I've never tried to rewrite the story. And I don't want to live in bitterness. I still wanted to be open hearted and help others. And that's what set the tone for the years to where we are today.

[Andrea Gunning]

She's now 11 years sober.

[Deb Proctor]

I maintain sobriety. I was dedicated to my meetings and I was dedicated to the spiritual journey and dealing with my loss and grief and shock.

[Andrea Gunning]

She took on a leadership role in her tribe as director of a program providing resources and support to victims of domestic violence.

[Deb Proctor]

I would say you still gotta stay working on your emotional health because it's a tough service. What I know for sure is that we can't help others adequately or appropriately if we haven't began our own work to heal. I feel like I'm more effective in these last years because of all the work I've done.

[Andrea Gunning]

In 2019, she got a call from Jeff's son. Jeff had passed away.

[Deb Proctor]

It was a sense of relief, but also all the emotions that flood into that moment you just have to hold.

[Andrea Gunning]

In the last few years, her life has taken an unexpected turn.

[Deb Proctor]

I just recently married on September 7th and I never saw it coming. Both of us are nevers. And it was the most beautiful wedding. Outdoors overlooking the lake. It was just beautiful, romantic, just wonderful.

[Andrea Gunning]

After all, she did make a commitment to being open hearted. Her new husband meets her at her level and he's put in the work too.

[Deb Proctor]

He is also sober him 40 something years. Both of us love golf. Both of us love music. It's just a blessing for us both. We feel so grateful. It was too bad we're meeting each other at 70 and 67, but here we are.

[Andrea Gunning]

We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to share your.

[Deb Proctor]

Story if my story could help others identify lies from their partner earlier? That's one part. The real part is we can heal and we can have a good life and we can live well. The trauma and the pain and the suffering and the sorrow. We have the potential to just be an amazing human on the other side. Leave your heart open. Love others, help others learn boundaries. Set limits.

[Andrea Gunning]

On the next episode of Betrayal. My mom was the first one to be like, does this seem off at all to you?

[Deb Proctor]

It was really the first time someone like said something that made me think, what do you mean off? Like, I had never considered doubting it.

[Andrea Gunning]

If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email [e-mail] that's betrayal peace. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Kristin Melchiori and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krynchek. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Del Vecchio Additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by My Music and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Cheap Caribbean is celebrating more than just the new year in 2025. Cheap Caribbean Vacations is celebrating its 25th birthday too. You're invited to join in on the birthday fun and book a beach vacation with more savings. Now through February 3rd, you can unlock up to $250 off site wide vacation packages. Celebrate these awesome savings at your favorite beach and book your next all inclusive [e-mail] your $250 off is waiting at David's Bridal. Love is in every stitch from the initial sketch to the final details. Each style is designed with exquisite craftsmanship. Every wedding gown, bridesmaid look, prom dress and special occasion style in between features handcrafted details filled with love. Come see the magic in person. Book an appointment and sign up for diamond loyalty to save 15% on your first purchase. Earn points towards special rewards and more at davidsbridal.com Amazon One Medical presents Painful.

[Deb Proctor]

Thoughts I could catch anything sitting in this doctor's waiting room. Kid just wiped his runny nose on my jacket. And the guy next to me sitting.

[Andrea Gunning]

In a pool of perspiration insists on sharing my armrest. Next time, make an appointment with an.

[Deb Proctor]

Amazon One medical provider.

[Andrea Gunning]

There's no waiting and no sweaty guy.

[Deb Proctor]

Amazon One medical healthcare just got less painful.